Monkcron™

[Agnt]

Has anyone else noticed that specially in 4 char servers(saturn atleast) 80% of pvp action is monks. APUs and PPUs everywhere and in most popular exping places, all we see is noob or averige monks. Everyone is makeing one.

Personally im thinking why this is happening. Only explonation i can figure out is that apu/ppu combo can kill 5-10 other classes without any problems. Also APU is fastest char to kill any mob and always get loots privilege. Noob APU with holy energy halo make more damage then spy with pain easer and can take actually more hit.

Im NOT saying that KK should nerf the APUs. Better idea would be boost all other weaponclasses damage, allthough it would nerf the mobs!!

Honestly, if 1vs1 battle has less then 200m range, no other class can beat APU monk

[Benjie]

Monk-o-cron™ sucks. Whatever happened to Tank-o-cron™ a few months ago? Hell even Spy-o-cron™ was better than Monk-o-cron™ when a spy could own a Tank no questions asked!
:o

[Rieper]

phos-street-rifle-o-cron pwned all :)

[Andronicus]

i'm still waiting for PEocron... someday... someday...

[MayhemMike]

I accuataly feel the SAME way about this . I have a apu on Pluto and i pk with a ppu . I can take down anyone . ^_-

[Benjie]

No. Sorry. At the moment we are playing Lom-o-cron™
Or was it Time-sick-o-cron™ :confused:


But @ threadstarter I have to agree. There is nothing worse for me in Neocron™ than a heavily domminant class that pwn's joo. I think in Neocron™ all classes should be equall at getting cash, PvP, and PvM, only they should just go about it in there own way.

-Spy's should be able to take out a WB solo with a Silent Hunter, or a Pistol and Stealth/Radiation suit.
-PE's should be able to dance with the warbot.
-Tank's should be able to withstand the damage.
-PPU's should be able to defend himself/herself against the warbot very easily.
-APU's should be able to holy lightning the warbot and kill it in one hit from the same range as a silent hunter. :confused:
-
-And all classes should have a fighting PvP chance at all ranks vs a runner of the same rank. Regardless of class.

I think the main problem with Monkcron™ is the apu's are the only class that can storm MC5. Makes apu-hood very appealing.

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by MayhemMike
I accuataly feel the SAME way about this . I have a apu on Pluto and i pk with a ppu . I can take down anyone . ^_-


With a ppu.



But apus by themselves aren't anything too special. Just because 80% of the retarded apus out there only travel with a ppu stuck inside their ass doesn't mean that apus are outrageously overpowered or anything.


I swear ppus are gonna get APUs proxy nerfed.


The only reason apus and ppus dominate op wars is because KK made ppus super duper overlyimportant, then they made apus the only ones who can take them down further increasing the reliance on monks. But the SOURCE of the problem is ppus.

[MayhemMike]

just go on and say it , parashock o nos nerf :o . I can solo tanks and shiet but when it gets to mutiple people it gets hard , lib tears me a new one =[

[Drake6k]

The other classes dont have a big enough role. PPU and APU is the best of everything. Hell my apu has 130 research and 140 psi use... not THAT gimp really. Monks have it all... other classes need their own thing that makes them unique and NEEDED.

[BombShell]

all this proves is that monks r over powerd still :)

[QuantumDelta]

Uranus is/was still fairly PE Orientated :p

[sparrowtm]

*sighs and leaves the thread silently* (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74842)

[Morrow36]

yeah i've noticed this, in op wars everyone is a psi .... and nerf the range on the apu god, someone i will not mention (hehe you know who u are :) ) hit me the other day with a fire lance from what had to be like 300 yards ( like the distance from the back of medicare to the plaza 2 zone) ... and the thing is by the time i got 2 shots off they had 3 stacks on me when just one would have killed me (may not have been fire lance, some fire spell)

[Scarus]

I think they should have to aim like bloody tanks/Spys/PE's I know if your pistol you can run and keep your sights pretty much on target but if your a tank or use rifles your screwed!

A APU can run about like a lunatic hitting their target pretty much each time, this also means i get hit alot in the arse while doing runs... or anything with a monk because they dont need to aim and so attack alot more carelessly.

Maybe make them have to aim... and make mental steadyness a factor in this (mental steadiness means you can concentrate more and so target easier).

Just my idea... people will probably think it sucks, i dont mind.. the only monk i have is a PPU and i only have him to rezz my friends when all the other PPU's in my clan/zone/neocron are offline.

[Shadow Dancer]

Yea maybe apus do need to have a recticle, but that's not gonna solve the "core" problem of monkacron. As long as PPUs are the center of op wars and team battles and apus are the only ones with teh equipment to take them down, the core problem will still be there.

[Benjie]

Monks need some kind of nerf. Either with range or with targetting.

[IronMonkey]

monsk will always need nerfing until u nerf them out of the game

its pretty simple pre hybrid nerf everyone said apu's suck.

now apus are to overpowered and need to be nerfed, even though they arent any stronger than before.

No matter what kk does everyone will cry nerf.

So either kk is to listen to everyone and nerf forever. Or just remove all monks from the game.

because the nerf cycle will neevr end.

There needs to be no more nerfs, but alot of other professions definatly need boosts

[Disturbed021]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
As long as PPUs are the center of op wars and team battles and apus are the only ones with teh equipment to take them down, the core problem will still be there.

Exactly.

PPUs are needed to win OP wars cause they keep your side buffed, healed, etc...

APUs are needed at OP wars to try to kill the other teams PPUs.

So, really no other classes are needed. Monks are the ones that can really really decide who wins.

What they need is for some other class to be able to unbuff ppl. How bout a anti-buff drone or anti-buff turret?

[Maximilian]

You are all a bunch of f*cking whiners.

Play monk then and stop whining ffs

/ Max

[JiNxY]

so then theres MORE monks?

[Lucjan]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
The only reason apus and ppus dominate op wars is because KK made ppus super duper overlyimportant, then they made apus the only ones who can take them down further increasing the reliance on monks. But the SOURCE of the problem is ppus.

That is exactly the point.
Sure, APUs have some slight issues in others and my opinion, but so does PEs, but these are small tweaks. Nerfing and tweaking are two different things - and I have too agree, the PPU problem will proxy nerf APUs :/
There has been so many ideas how to try to solve problem in the past weeks, I can only hope KK picks one of them soon or at least soon(TM).

Oh, and remove paraSPAM...

[SigmaDraconis]

APU r fine really..its the the fact that its tooe asy to team up with a PPU...and get the best of both worlds..add things like voice coms for quick communication and the 2 parts are basically one..a single class with both thebest defense and offense :(

Seriously..i know so many of the APU out there woudl cry and whine their class sucked if they didnt have a PPU taped to their ass all the time....tis why i rolled PPU..i always have friends ^^erm that and weve kinda been forced to react to _other_ certain clans mongering the monk edge :( my clan has so few tanks it makes me wanna cry.

[darkvision4859]

The thing is with APU monks is that they are powerful with a PPU around. But without one they can't take that much damage. Their armour sucks. Anyone with a good Force weapon will cut one down in no time.

Just stop whining cause you dont' have a PPU friend and someone else does.

[Doc Holliday]

Uranus is/was still fairly PE Orientated


Is that why xantor bitched about all the monks who are used against them in op fights on ooc during a "discussion" about cycrow gr being open. Oh another thing for u all. He also claimed that playing a monk takes no skill. o_O :eek:

[Lethys]

I've seen an OP war won by a team of 6 PPUs with no other players against twice as many enemies O_o

[ericdraven]

Originally posted by Doc Holliday
Is that why xantor bitched about all the monks who are used against them in op fights on ooc during a "discussion" about cycrow gr being open. Oh another thing for u all. He also claimed that playing a monk takes no skill. o_O :eek:
Was it yesterday? I heard he got killed yesteday.. by... an APU.. :D

Of course it takes no skill to play a monk. Neither do you need skills to play a PE - what for - they have the second best defense in the game, so no skill is needed, right?

[Doc Holliday]

i didnt say it doesnt take skill to be a monk eric. however his words were we got skills u got monks.

what do u make of that?

[ericdraven]

Originally posted by Doc Holliday
i didnt say it doesnt take skill to be a monk eric. however his words were we got skills u got monks.

what do u make of that?
I was not talking about you, i was talking about Xantor. I know he cries about monks.. saw it on the german forum once.. but.. is there someone who does NOT, heh..

[Spoon]

Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
:( my clan has so few tanks it makes me wanna cry.

That's because Tanks are obsolete....
But, if Tanks could:
Just point and click on their target....
Shoot from behind cover while in 3rd person...
Have their reticile instantly close while running...
and have uber range....
More people would play them....

Besides, Tanks rank are so low, nobody wants to level with them...

[Doc Holliday]

sorry eric i misread or misenterpreted then. my apologies.


edit: it just seemed the sarcasm was aimed slightly at me as i know we have had our dissagreements in the past. :p

[Agnt]

I dont beleve KK should nerf the monks agan. IMO they should boost other classes to compare with monks.

[Lucjan]

Originally posted by Agnt
I dont beleve KK should nerf the monks agan. IMO they should boost other classes to compare with monks.

And how should KK boost them?
Yes, boost are better then nerfs, but there are two questions:
1. Why boost 3 classes if only one class is the problem.
2. When we boost and boost where do we end?

[TheDuckMan]

What if KK actualy got the resist PSI skill to work???


Just a thought

Ducky

[QuantumDelta]

Heh, it's been said before;

The Monkocron concept is not actually due to monks being overpowered.
Solo;
PPUs (although needing PvP Damage removed), are not overpowered.
APUs are not overpowered too badly due to their lack of defence (although I think random damage is "hit everyone for okay damage but really kill QD when ever a duel comes up" o_o), though some people would say that random damage was a bit too much.....
PEs are balanced due to moderator-low offence and great defence.
Tanks are balanced due to high offence and lower defence
Spies ..err...we all know about spies.

However;
While the PPU is the greatest of defence and the APU is greatest of offence, they will naturally make the best partners.

That's the problem, people genuinely need to realise that it's only really parashock and holy lightning that even need a slight tweak in the monk areas.

PPUs should be near-frigging-unkillable, they can't kill effectively, when other people are around that's it, especially if one is a PE or PPU with high damage heals.

There have been a number of suggestions made, and External PPU Buffs have already been nerfed.
Some of you even know this is true, you need to make more informed comments you sound like "the big dumb mob" (not monster).

edit;
PSI Resist wouldn't benefit anyone either.
Holy Lightning does ENERGY.
Fire Apocalypse does FIRE.
All other PSI Weaponry does Elemental damage.
ugh.

[Oath]

S-T-F-U-ocron :rolleyes:

Reason why its monk o cron is cause Pe's are dull, tanks are shit, and spys........................................are..........well.............spys.

Look at the awesome accuracy/range/damage of holy lightning (not everyone has it though) thats why people go apu.

Look at the defensive capabilities of PPus, thats why everyone goes ppu.

An ive already bitched about Pe's n tanks, so i wont anymore.

Monks are ubar right now, rightly so.

And yeah resist Psi would pwn.

[NS_CHROME54]

i think the best way to make tanks relevant in pvp again is to take off that stupid heavy weapon slowdown thing.

i mean, come on, they're the most athletic class in the game, and they're built like an ox, they should be able to carry around a huge weapon w/o having to slow down like that. (you probably guessed it, yes, my main character is a tank) I'm sick of whipping out my speedgun and not being able to hit anyone cause they move at fullspeed, while i can barely move, and that's with 90 athletics and 79 agility.

one more thing: i think you should take off 5 tank dex and put it into intelligence. we don't need that dex anyway

[Dribble Joy]

Even if res psi was 'usefull' no-one in their right mind will use it in replacment to their spells. Even tanks.

[QuantumDelta]

oh I didn't realise this was another tank bitch thread in disguise.
You guys killed hybrids you still ain't happy.
keep destroying other peoples classes guys, that's the way to rescue this game.
Short sighted and selfish -_-

[Oath]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
oh I didn't realise this was another tank bitch thread in disguise.
You guys killed hybrids you still ain't happy.
keep destroying other peoples classes guys, that's the way to rescue this game.
Short sighted and selfish -_-

Im not bitchin bout tanks, im not saying kil monks read the post

Monks are ubar now, rightly so.

After extensive monk killing i realised that tanks aint that bad, there aremor needs some updating, but aside from that they can still kick almost all classes asses, i was just outa practice lol.
i think the best way to make tanks relevant in pvp again is to take off that stupid heavy weapon slowdown thing.

i mean, come on, they're the most athletic class in the game, and they're built like an ox, they should be able to carry around a huge weapon w/o having to slow down like that. (you probably guessed it, yes, my main character is a tank) I'm sick of whipping out my speedgun and not being able to hit anyone cause they move at fullspeed, while i can barely move, and that's with 90 athletics and 79 agility.


try running the 100 m sprint with a beer keg strapped to your shoulders, youll slow down too. im ean a real keg, not the shitty tiny ones you get at asda.

[Dribble Joy]

Hybrids were overpowered, but the complete removal of their 'class' wasn't needed.
Tanks have CS/SG ffs with a PPU a tank can probably beat a APU/PPU team (i think)
Stop whining.

(boost pistols :P)

[QuantumDelta]

heh, fair enough.
Fixing PSI Resist wouldn't really benefit any class though, like DJ Says...

The only "problem" :rolleyes: is the combination of PPU + APU.

Heh, PPU + = Problem to most people, I'm not sure why all these idiots want PPUs dead, but generally it's going to be fun in PvM when they are.

As for PvP?
The sooner Op Fights last five seconds as a bunch of Tanks and APUs rain CS and HL on enemies killing them all and no one around to rezz or buff.

Sooner I quit.


edit;
DJ, PPU + APU vs PPU + Tank = Dead APU or Dead Tank and no one capable of killing the other PPU :p

PPUs are not really meant for small scale battles...

[Oath]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
As for PvP?
The sooner Op Fights last five seconds as a bunch of Tanks and APUs rain CS and HL on enemies killing them all and no one around to rezz or buff.

Sooner I quit.
Agreed, but..............doesnt tha happen already :rolleyes: does to me :(

OZMO

[Itth]

IMO the only problems wiht monks are their range.

i mean cmon a apu makes a better sniper than my SH spy :rolleyes:

[Oath]

Originally posted by Itth
IMO the only problems wiht monks are their range.

i mean cmon a apu makes a better sniper than my SH spy :rolleyes:

That and smiper cant shoot round corners :lol: :lol:

Mr harvey oswald anyone t3h magic bullets.

cant spell the fuxxorz name lol.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Oath
Agreed, but..............doesnt tha happen already :rolleyes: does to me :(

OZMO PPU Buffs can make fights last a lot longer....if Parashock were removed it'd just be like a Unreal Tourney session :p I'd like it even if others don't....


as for your tank...cap yer arse :p

[NS_CHROME54]

heh i can never get in close enough to use a plasma cannon.

fighting at redrock this one time against an unbuffed apu, i was using a speedgun, he was using hl. i did half the damage to this monk as i would do to a tank wearing powerarmour. wtf. i died, as u can imagine.

[Oath]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
PPU Buffs can make fights last a lot longer....if Parashock were removed it'd just be like a Unreal Tourney session :p I'd like it even if others don't....


as for your tank...cap yer arse :p

lol im close mate, then im comin for jooooo j/kes

and yeah, though i cant really agree or disagree with Holy glue, cos i like it when its in my favour :) i think it should be toned down, i mean ffs i cant even turn lol.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by NS_CHROME54

fighting at redrock this one time against an unbuffed apu, i was using a speedgun, he was using hl. i did half the damage to this monk as i would do to a tank wearing powerarmour. wtf. i died, as u can imagine.

I hate claims like these.

Needless to say from that comment though;
You really need to work on your aim :P

Heavy Deflector Belt Wearing APU with high FOR and high XRR/FIR.

Semi-decent defence for the monk, but still very killable if you use your brain.

I meant removal of holy blue shite from the sky would = fun op fights if PPUs were still around, seems that most people want to totally kill monks dead though....

And, DJ, Hybrids do work (somewhat) properly, they just ...uhh, aren't so good for op wars...even though they're good for duels...

[Dribble Joy]

Insta-aming and range is the only thing I currently have a problem with monks atm (hybrids are hard to implement due to game dynamics/skill system, so... bleh would be nice to see em again if they could be made to work properly)

[NS_CHROME54]

nothin wrong with my aim, just the damage was too damn low

[Dribble Joy]

What mod? Xray?
A monk can 'cap' pirecing and xray easily.
Use explosive.

[NS_CHROME54]

but i guess it really doesn't matter. everyone here can bitch about anything they want until they're blue in the face, including me. when it's fixed, we'll move on and find something else to whine about.

[QuantumDelta]

Next time....use your head then.... CS > TSG vs that kinda monk.
Sound silly? well, it's true, simply because of the power of the CS.

I also can't judge how good or bad your PvP is from remote, but "nothin wrong with my aim just the damage was too low" sounds like an excuse more than anything else...

heh, well that's true I guess.

[zonk]

How about disabling PPU's for 1 day and try to get OP wars roling to see if OP wars are more fun?

Couple of CON's:
- OP wars fought in 10% of the time
- PPU's wont be disabled for 1 day by KK
- Dunno if OP wars can be triggered without PPU's

[Lucjan]

There was a time without PPUs and we did fine. In OP fights, in caves, hunting WBs and fire mobs...

If one thinks OP fights will be over in few minutes, the damage on weapons can be tuned down equally for all weapons in game to make OP fights last longer. As we all know, reducting mobs isn't a big problem, KK did boosts and nerfs on them quite often in the past.

[dmon99]

plzzzzz no dont nerf monks anymore. im jack torse on uranus , a tank im soo glad my freinds can do so much more damage than me j/k.o_O


anyway the monks aint that bad with the use of pa and good conset up i can laugh at any apu who want a showdown

main reason i cant make a decent monk kill in pp1 is cause folks always gang up on meh.

2 apu no prolem

pe takes alittle work but most of the time will kill me in the end

higher ranked tank with a 5 slotted cs as most of the duetch community carry = meh dead but not without a good fight

ppu+ apu> everybody

spy< everybody with maybe a couple exceptions

melee tank with a devilsgrace > most or all of xantors crew

so its balanced i think it just takes the right player to handle the right advisary, not just you owning all classes so and saying nerf that one or two folks that happen to own you by a stroke of mis fortune of you being at the wrong place ad fight ting an advisary that is better suited to killing your class. you may be the pe that can handle a full blown cs weilding tank with your pain easer but.... a melee tank i know could prolly take you. but if your a stealthing pe then the cs wielding tank can prolly take you with his doom beamer when you stealth to heal as whear the dg tank is just shit outta luck

[QuantumDelta]

......Jack, roll a APU and go around without PPU support for a while.
You'll be o_Oing on the other side of your face I'm sure...

[dmon99]

i did that already on pluto and yeah it sucked there cause i was fallen angel ........ felling angel +pluto = everybod kos that fa ass. even fa kill fa for not defending th

[QuantumDelta]

Ehh.. how high level did you get?
If not too high; try a bit more or maybe change factions....generally APUs can be fun....but mostly useless on their own.....just like Pistol PEs :p
....except pistol pes are always useless...

[dmon99]

nahh pistol pe's arent useless they have their place as some- what non suicidal melee attackers as with a melee tank if your going to fight somebody you are making a commitment also the same with hell almost all tanks..... once your into the fight ... up close and personal its you or them ...... same with a pistol pe except most have the option to run and heal quickly and then come back for more much like a lone apu, they usually have the odds stacked against them with a melee tank with a dg then they would with a cs wielding tank. if the situation is out doors that is the apu has the range on a cs tank to take advantage of but a melee tank is always your ass




oh and i deleted that psi on pluto as the general community were asscracks, as were ive made lots of friends on uranus

[dmon99]

as a reply to doc holliday's post about xantor


xantor did make the comment: we have skill you have monks

this comming from the guy who had like 4 - 6 monks with him at cycrow at that last op fight we had, and kept popping up from the underground and then ducking back in where its safe when he was getting his ass kicked along with his monks

10v 10 we would have had that op but ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh no xant had to call in the syncs to make it 25-10 in his favor and spamming turrets what was that all about dont want to do the fighting your self xant

[QuantumDelta]

Heh, I've given to not believing the "Battle reports" from any side in an op war on uranus unless I see it for myself.

Damn people act like kids half the time so I gave up caring.

Can't even tell if you're lying, exagerating, telling the truth, or just naive anymore.

So yea...... I don't give a shit... I'll just deal with what directly applies to me...

[Oath]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Damn man, i was there watchin that while ubar stealthed, wasnt that bad a fight either.

OMZO

[dmon99]

yeah your right qd good policy.. reguardless though ,was a two part battle first one was the longest fight even when all them syncs showed up it still raged but in the end the massive number hit( in their favor) did overrun us mere few

second part was kinda shite.

in the second, we got there after seeing most syncs logged we thought the numbers we would face would be more equaled out

but just as we were all about to get into another raging battle all of us attackers all synced out with the worst damn crash i ever had ............shit had to reboot twice............. just to logg in dead with uts runnin about slying each of us as we logged back in

thats the gods honest truth and we are all witnesses to that

nasty lag that cycrow has:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[QuantumDelta]

Heard about that.
All I have to say is Cycrow is one of the least stable zones in the game :p
or, at least used to be, I haven't been there ((with any form of regularity)) since before I was capped....that's almost 10months ago o_O

[dmon99]

yeah .... wish they really would give cycrow zone some good kk love

qd man i hate to say it but you know how long i been on this server ..... how long ago was it when i was in ssc and i still aint capped guess i spend too much time handing out money to new players and talkin with everybody a forgot one thing to capp my own ass

[QuantumDelta]

Heh, I'm always broke because I'm always doing that, that's why I capped first :p