The Great Rare Dilemma

[Heraclitus]

Should the rare system be eradicated entirely so that rare weapons are totally eliminated or sold in stores? If you answer yes on this poll it's fairly self-explanatory. If you vote no a little explanation is perhaps necessary.

The reason I ask is that people whine that rares are necessary for PvP and that they shouldn;t really be rare. Well then why have them at all, I ask. Is this game completely devoid of any RPG aspects? Should it just be one huge Death-Match? If it's so easy to get rares and rareparts why even bother with the system anyway as it becomes less a quest and more a minor nuiscance? Why NOT sell them in stores? Seems an awfully slippery slope to me, so be careful to justify and moderate postion you may think you have.

[Scikar]

The Strange Book system is already in place to experiment with alternative methods of obtaining rares. Let's see what KK have planned.

[Progenitor]

I still like my idea (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72534).

-p

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Scikar
The Strange Book system is already in place to experiment with alternative methods of obtaining rares. Let's see what KK have planned.

I'm with you on the waiting part. Just guaging people's opinions. After all if now is the time for experimentation, now is the time for analysis.

[Smugly]

I voted no. To be honest, I am an advocate of the current techpart system. I like the thrill of getting a part, researching it and trading for what I need to complete the set. Kind of like an uber violent game of Pokemon.

However, I also subscribe to the belief that rares hold far too much sway and influence in PVP. As well as the other that rares drops are currently too low with regards to the current rare pool. I'd like to see the introduction of top end shop bought weaponry that is nearly, but not quite as good as the rare weaponry.

Now before people jump up and down yelling that I want everything given to me on a plate, that's not the case. But there's only so much work I'm prepared to do. There are other games, hell other THINGS to do besides camp warbots all day trying to get the parts for a rare weapon so that I can participate in PVP. Or even have a decent rate of PVM. Going at a Grim Chaser all day with a TAR doesn't get my enthusiasm up.

So in short. I'd like an improved drop rate for rare parts and the introdcution of more top end non rare weaponry, rather than the obliteration of the rare system.

[Scikar]

When Lupus' weapon damage changes come into effect, rares won't be quite so necessary. The damage gap between for example TPC and CS will be reduced.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Scikar
When Lupus' weapon damage changes come into effect, rares won't be quite so necessary. The damage gap between for example TPC and CS will be reduced.

I wasn't aware that this was in the works. Sounds like a good idea on the surface. Personally I would like rares to be slightly more powerful than the highest commercial weapon (as it seems Lupus is planning) but also be DIFFERENT in some way. Like maybe there can be a rare AoE rifle or a weapon that does 100% X-Ray damage. As it is now people just pine for the raw damage of a rare, I'd like to see them pine for a rare because it fits some tactical plan they have.

[Duder]

Well, its just Lupu's Brainport idea...and as anyone knows, the chances of a brainport idea is quite low, and if KK likes an idea, it would take at least 2 months before we see it in retail...well mostly.

[Nullifidian]

Originally posted by Scikar
When Lupus' weapon damage changes come into effect, rares won't be quite so necessary. The damage gap between for example TPC and CS will be reduced.


Actually the theory sounds all well and good, but reality I think would be entirely different. That difference would have to be seriously fucking tiny for there to be a non-reliance on rares.

[QuantumDelta]

Hera, are you on uranus or pluto, at all?
if so, what name, wanna duel?

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm not voting on the poll, because it's a silly poll.



I don't see a problem with rares in the game. I do see a problem rares being needed in PvP.


First of all currently rares aren't rare. If they were "truly" rare, a hell of alot more people would be complaining. There wouldn't be op wars where everyone has a "rare", if they were truly rare it would be like 2 people max per op war that have a swirly. And they would have an enormous advantage over everyone else.


How can PvP be a huge an important part of Neocron, and then rares be truly rare? That doesn't even fucking make sense. If rares were truly rare then they CANNOT have such a powerful impact on PvP. That's just..........dumb.

And why the hell do rares even have to be PvP related? That is so stupid. How about rare vehicles? Or rare apartments? How about rare datacubes, or other rare shit? There's plenty of shit you can make rare without making it PvP related. And even then, why do rares that are pvp related have to have such an overpowering effect?


I remember totally slaughtering a tank in neofrag everytime, turns out he was using TPC. NO WONDER!!! HE didn't even stand a chance against me. Now when he got his cs, then it was a challenge.

And you people want that shit to multiply? You want a few "lone rangers"(i.e. losers with no life that can camp for years) to totally dominate everyone else?


BAH!


They should be called UNIQUES, not rares.

True "Rares" wouldn't be in the hands of EVERYONE and his mother, TRUE rares shouldn't be PvP related.

What's next, a special spell called "KEEL YOU" that you only have a 1 in 39-472-3478-2347-23482340234702384723 chance of getting, and kills people with one hit?

w00t


:rolleyes:

[QuantumDelta]

If I hadn't said it else where on this forum already, I would have said that arc, but it's kinda pointless.... idiots don't really listen...heh

Regardless, well said.

[Jolt]

Originally posted by Smugly
I voted no. To be honest, I am an advocate of the current techpart system. I like the thrill of getting a part, researching it and trading for what I need to complete the set. Kind of like an uber violent game of Pokemon.

However, I also subscribe to the belief that rares hold far too much sway and influence in PVP. As well as the other that rares drops are currently too low with regards to the current rare pool. I'd like to see the introduction of top end shop bought weaponry that is nearly, but not quite as good as the rare weaponry.

Now before people jump up and down yelling that I want everything given to me on a plate, that's not the case. But there's only so much work I'm prepared to do. There are other games, hell other THINGS to do besides camp warbots all day trying to get the parts for a rare weapon so that I can participate in PVP. Or even have a decent rate of PVM. Going at a Grim Chaser all day with a TAR doesn't get my enthusiasm up.

So in short. I'd like an improved drop rate for rare parts and the introdcution of more top end non rare weaponry, rather than the obliteration of the rare system.

That about sums up the way i feel now. Increase the tech drop rate to what it was back in january.

I would also like to see getting rid of the safe slot. Losing a rare should suck but not to the point your spending the next two weeks hunting for another one to replace it.

[Judge]

This has nothing to do with the "rare debate" the rare debate is all about HOW rare the damn things should be.

Personally I think that rares should be easy to get (say 4 huors hunting then a few more trading) but that they should also be relatively easy to lose. Bring back the thrill of PvP. Bring back early retail.

(Ideally I hate rares and would see them out of the game and made shop bought, but I see that they are an integral part now and that most people wouldn't want to part from them. Which is fair do's)

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
If I hadn't said it else where on this forum already, I would have said that arc, but it's kinda pointless.... idiots don't really listen...heh

Regardless, well said.

Oh hey you're not a troll, I'm glad you;ve stated that multiple times because otherwise I wouldn't have known. SD's post was a bit sarcastic but at least he provided INFORMATION (though he put plenty of words into my mouth), what you do is mindless trolling. You offer nothing in the way of debate, so you are a worthless poster.

[Shadow Dancer]

lol

Hera, I didn't put words into your mouth. O_O


When I said "you" it was more of a general "you". You the "people". err something like that :p

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
...

Like I said above you;re putting words into my mouth (if you are referring to me with these comments). I don't think that that rares existing is silly and I'm not griping about the fact that some people have them and some don't. I have all the rares I need. Point being people whine about the system of acquisition of rares and that's what's on the table here, not how well/poorly you can do in Neofrag with a TPC. So lets try and keep on topic that way.

I understand that for PvP to be truly skill based most or all other factors must be equal, otherwise the one guy with the rare (if they were really rare) would obviously dominate. Take the time to read the rest of the thread and you'll see that other ways of distributing and RESTRUCTURING rares are being discussed.

The main reason I bring this up is that if it's true what you say, why even maintain the facade? Just sell them in stores. They're just about as easy to get now, so why not? No more whining about camping this or that mob. No more whines about having to actually go someplace to get something. With all due honesty I wouldn't want it this way, but the people who advocate ample distribution of rares (which is really what we have atm) imply that this is the natural conclusion.

Do I think that wickedly reduced drop rates under the current system help? No, you'll have to find that opinion in this thread from someone else because I don't have it. To me it's rediculous to even maintain the facade. Now the new rare book + run = rare thing is interesting and I'm willing to give it a try. But overall I advocate a complete restructuring of rares. If however, the old rare system MUST be retained, I advocate selling them in stores because really that's all it boils down to.

This is not an FPS though it contains elements of one. There needs to be a way that the RPG elements of the game come into play with the FPS elements. Otherwise I say go play Planetside.

EDIT: ^^^ Okay, sorry for misunderstanding you.

[Viduus[JBX]]

I didn't vote.
There are options missing from the poll.

I stated my opinion on another thread, but I'll dice it out a little here as well.

Rares should not, under any circumstances, be sold in a manufacturer store.

Put all "manufactured" weapons (and other items) in the stores, and let the rares be "customized items" via Blueprinting and Construction skills.

Want them sold in stores? Fine -- anything that gets sold at Yo's should be resold at a markup.

So if I had an Uber-Gun @ TL135 and brought it to JoeBPGuy, who researches @ TL160, then the odds are the BP will be better than the original item. That makes his skills in high demand, and increases role-playability.

Now, take that now-TL150 BP to a JohnConter who works @ TL165, and HE in turn produces a better item than JoeBPGuy originally drew out, making a truely *UNIQUE* weapon, THAT is a "rare item", and makes Joe and John's skills worthwhile, supporting a thriving player marketplace, and allowing better playability at the same time as making high-lvl characters' stuff, as well as lower levels, UNIQUE.

So a psi casting a barrel might have a small damage base, but cover a much larger area and last twice as long... et cetera....


________

Edited part ->
As for rare parts, sure - put some meat into the BPs --- make it so a BP will make XX item, **but if you had partZ and partY I (the conster) could double the range/handling/damage/alter damagetype** and so on.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Oh hey you're not a troll, I'm glad you;ve stated that multiple times because otherwise I wouldn't have known. SD's post was a bit sarcastic but at least he provided INFORMATION (though he put plenty of words into my mouth), what you do is mindless trolling. You offer nothing in the way of debate, so you are a worthless poster.

Pity when you're talking about the other thread to do with rares you never replied to my arguments.
You just disappeared off as soon as I posted more than 25% of my argument.

What, can't prove a point against a real point?

Heh.

My Question, was if you would duel me, please.
Your previous thread said only rares matter in this game, not skill, I wish to enlighten you a little bit, from someone on the top of the food chain to someone coming in on the bottom who will have to work their way up.

Rares are just a part of that, they are needed in PvP, a Great deal, never should a person be denied these things because simply put;

If it takes a person a week to find a new CS after losing their old one to a bug or to a death, then they will be out of order for that week.

You said I wanted everything put on my plate without effort, you said I wanted easy to farm rares, my reply to this was I already have all the rares I want, the only thing you will do by nerfing the loot pool is making newbies lives harder.

Of course didn't bother you, you have your rares.

You didn't even reply to my question as to which 3 rares you constructed after hunting for a short period of time, I wonder why.

As for the idea.

Shop bought research and constructable "Rare" is far from an original idea, if you'll kindly use your http://neocron.jafc.de/images/top_search.gif (http://neocron.jafc.de/search.php?s=) function you will find a few similiar ideas, mostly more polished than this.

The best idea I saw, was a version of the current system with drones.

Rare drones can be built, however, instead of the 120% levels which the REAL Rares come out at, the researched and constructed versions come out at something like 70%

This is a simple way through the problem, imo.
The only other major problem, is simply the sheer amount of junk in the tech part loot pool.

While the drop rate might be great, the actual odds of getting the single part you want is staggering, trading the parts you get is an option, always, however, when most people get MELEE RARES and useless spells like Crahn Catharsis and Anti-buff etc.
It's hopeless to go out into the desert or canyons and say "Today I will work on trying to get this rare." You could spend 24 hours out there, solid, and still not turn up a single part, for that one rare.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Pity when you're talking about the other thread to do with rares you never replied to my arguments.
You just disappeared off as soon as I posted more than 25% of my argument.

What, can't prove a point against a real point?

Heh.

My Question, was if you would duel me, please.

Go hang your e-cock somewhere else. Totally irrelevant to the topic. I thank God I don't frequent any of the servers you do.



Your previous thread said only rares matter in this game, not skill, I wish to enlighten you a little bit, from someone on the top of the food chain to someone coming in on the bottom who will have to work their way up.

Rares are just a part of that, they are needed in PvP, a Great deal, never should a person be denied these things because simply put;

You just contradicted yourself. Shadow Dancer pointed out that a CS will beat a TPC almost every time and I agree. I don;t necessarily lament that point either.


If it takes a person a week to find a new CS after losing their old one to a bug or to a death, then they will be out of order for that week.

You said I wanted everything put on my plate without effort, you said I wanted easy to farm rares, my reply to this was I already have all the rares I want, the only thing you will do by nerfing the loot pool is making newbies lives harder.

Why would I respond to you when you were responding to some phantom in your head. I suggested BREAKING THE RARE POOL UP, so that you had to go to different places to get rares. This promotes exploration and a rare becomes more of an accomplishment and less a mark of a good camper. You are setting up the good old straw man yet again.

[b]
Of course didn't bother you, you have your rares.

You didn't even reply to my question as to which 3 rares you constructed after hunting for a short period of time, I wonder why.

Because your opinion means NOTHING to me. But here, just to shut you up: Libby, Judge, and TWO pistol ultimas. Took me a few hours all told over the span of a few days.


[b]As for the idea.

Shop bought research and constructable "Rare" is far from an original idea, if you'll kindly use your http://neocron.jafc.de/images/top_search.gif (http://neocron.jafc.de/search.php?s=) function you will find a few similiar ideas, mostly more polished than this.

You see disckmunch, I have proposed nothing in this thread, save selling rares in stores (an idea I don;t even support), but the fact that you chose to troll TWICE before being GOADED into making an opinion makes whatever you have to say moot to me. Maybe if you had a shred of magnanimity in you you would keep your tongue civil (as Shadow Dancer did despite his disagreements).


The best idea I saw, was a version of the current system with drones.

Rare drones can be built, however, instead of the 120% levels which the REAL Rares come out at, the researched and constructed versions come out at something like 70%

This is a simple way through the problem, imo.
The only other major problem, is simply the sheer amount of junk in the tech part loot pool.

While the drop rate might be great, the actual odds of getting the single part you want is staggering, trading the parts you get is an option, always, however, when most people get MELEE RARES and useless spells like Crahn Catharsis and Anti-buff etc.
It's hopeless to go out into the desert or canyons and say "Today I will work on trying to get this rare." You could spend 24 hours out there, solid, and still not turn up a single part, for that one rare.

People get those shitty rares because they farm WBs and WBs alone. Recently three clanmates and I took the arduous trip to the Gaia mines. We found, I think 6 rareparts in one trip. Not a huge haul, but upon ID THREE of them were psi-core parts. Another trip, another psi-core part. A brief time trading and we had it complete. Point being the rare pool is more divided than I thought it was and a little exploration rewarded us greatly. Conversely those that farm WBs ad naseum are going to be left holding the shitty end of the stick and rightfully so. But of course if you weren't so busy setting up the straw man you'd see in my first post of that other thread that I advocated more mobs dropping rares and at a better rate, just that the pool be broken. But whatever, you'd rather tack some tired old argument onto me so as to make the "debate" "easy" for you. Just as I'm sure you'd love to cry victory over my non-capped, non-rare holding (not up to specs yet, I gave the libby to a clanmate) PE or my gimped droner.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Viduus[JBX]
I didn't vote.
There are options missing from the poll.


Intentionally so. I was stimulating conversation.

I like your idea though IF rares were to be sold in stores. I myself was thinking of having only the parts sold so that Constructors weren't out of a job. Again, though I'd rather not go that route.

[Clothing_Option]

Originally posted by Jolt
That about sums up the way i feel now. Increase the tech drop rate to what it was back in january.

I would also like to see getting rid of the safe slot. Losing a rare should suck but not to the point your spending the next two weeks hunting for another one to replace it.

Two weeks!!!!!!
Youd be damn lucky to replace a rare weapon that fast.
Maybe if u played 50 hrs a week at a mininmum

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Go hang your e-cock somewhere else. Totally irrelevant to the topic. I thank God I don't frequent any of the servers you do.

*Raises eyebrow*
This is merely the first time I've seen you post since your last... bout with me?
Regardless, Duels are completely different from KoS, or "I vill keeeellll j00" heh, a duel, is a fair fight, between two ready players, I guess you give me more reason to roll on that bloody server...



You just contradicted yourself.
No, I don't.

Shadow Dancer pointed out that a CS will beat a TPC almost every time and I agree.
Really? I've seen otherwise, in duels as well.
Your lack of experience excuses you, however I would tell you that using the most damaging, highest TL whatever, isn't always the best option.


I don;t necessarily lament that point either.
No I know, from the impressions I got last time we spoke you struck me as quite the ever quest fan.
This is not everquest.
People in this game do not like to camp for their goods;
MC5, and other such notions are still debated in the community.


Why would I respond to you when you were responding to some phantom in your head.
Heh, strange, because half a dozen people posted "STFU Noob" and other such ..quaint terms, in reference to yourself whilst my comments were used as argument against you.

I suggested BREAKING THE RARE POOL UP, so that you had to go to different places to get rares.
Again, if you use that funky old search button, you'll see, *I* have suggested this exact idea a long time ago myself as well, however, this will lead to camping of specific mobs, rather than the more free hunting that people have now.


This promotes exploration and a rare becomes more of an accomplishment and less a mark of a good camper.
Agreed, but most people get around to this anyway. I've been to every zone in 'cron, I know the loot pool for all the mobs, i know roughly, what the chances of getting one piece of loot over another is (Sorry I can't be exact because I don't know the maths applied, all I know is round numbers from the table)

You are setting up the good old straw man yet again. If I was, you'd know it, trust me.


Because your opinion means NOTHING to me. But here, just to shut you up: Libby, Judge, and TWO pistol ultimas. Took me a few hours all told over the span of a few days.
Not bad;
Problem is, liberator is "okay" Judge is pathetic and pistol ultimas are not that well sought after (okay, granted, I base that on Uranus and Pluto economy)



You see disckmunch, I have proposed nothing in this thread, save selling rares in stores (an idea I don;t even support),
Heh, Yes, not a bad idea, one I would likely support however, not one I'm going to back while it has so little flesh on it.
Did you even think about this idea, or did you just hear it off someone else?

but the fact that you chose to troll TWICE
One was a legit comment unto yourself asking the man for a duel, I'm going to guess from your rant that you don't accept and would rather skulk off in the corner.
The other, was a slight musement of myself, Arc nearly quoted something I said a while back, had nothing to do with you.


before being GOADED into making an opinion makes whatever you have to say moot to me.
Goaded? Heh, you haven't been around long enough to know my debate style.
Goaded, is much the wrong word.
If I were placing down my whole oppinion it would be pages long, people have seen me do it before, hardly anyone else on this forum has broken the 15000 character post limit in a constructive post/thread, I have.
Thank you.


Maybe if you had a shred of magnanimity in you you would keep your tongue civil (as Shadow Dancer did despite his disagreements).

You see disckmunch
Hmm...o_O
However, I haven't flamed anyone.


People get those shitty rares because they farm WBs and WBs alone.
Heh, I've hunted;
Oh hell I was actually writting a list...
I've hunted everything, don't sling stuff at me please. Kay?


Recently three clanmates and I took the arduous trip to the Gaia mines. We found, I think 6 rareparts in one trip.
Heh, Are you refering to the interior, or exterior zone(s)?
There are two Gaia Mine Zones, with two boss mobs, and also, there are some heavy duty fire mob spawn points nearby.

Not a huge haul, but upon ID THREE of them were psi-core parts. Another trip, another psi-core part.
Heh, I'd check my charts but if you're refering to boss mobs, their tech loot pool is shallower than the other mobs..(I say without checking so please don't quote it too heavily...)


A brief time trading and we had it complete.
Good for you, some might call that luck, especially since PSI Core is a heavily demanded CPU these days, I only pause to wonder what you traded for it, however I don't see anything abnormal :p


Point being the rare pool is more divided than I thought it was and a little exploration rewarded us greatly.
Congratulations, welcome to the first step in this world of "KK Are not as absolutely useless as everyone thinks.", I'm glad you explored one of my favourite places in the game.


Conversely those that farm WBs ad naseum are going to be left holding the shitty end of the stick and rightfully so.
Heh, WBs have other loot parts that can be extremely valuable instead... I need to go back to hunting them sometime soon -_-


But of course if you weren't so busy setting up the straw man you'd see in my first post of that other thread that I advocated more mobs dropping rares and at a better rate, just that the pool be broken.
If you go read it again, if your post was not meant in sarcasm (which, you need the sarcasm mop if it's not because it's dripping in it), then you need to word your posts a little better, and, everyone knows the loot pool is far too dilute with useless parts at this time, spitting that into a thread just to take fuel out of someone elses argument is not going to work on everyone.


But whatever, you'd rather tack some tired old argument onto me so as to make the "debate" "easy" for you.
You did that yourself.

Just as I'm sure you'd love to cry victory over my non-capped, non-rare holding (not up to specs yet, I gave the libby to a clanmate) PE or my gimped droner.

When you're capped, tell me.
I said it before, and I'll say it again, I like to fight, fair fights...

[Owain]

Originally posted by Progenitor
I still like my idea (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72534).

-p

as do i

[Dirus]

Originally posted by Duder
Well, its just Lupus' Brainport idea...and as anyone knows, the chances of a brainport idea is quite low, and if KK likes an idea, it would take at least 2 months before we see it in retail...well mostly.

Brainport = TL changes to evenly spread out weapons and new weapons to fill gaps.

In Works = Damage reworks, Aiming reworks, Range reworks, Accuracy reworks, Weight Reworks.

ETA.. whenever I get all the testing and calculating done. So give me a lot of free time and it'll be done faster.

As for the 2 month thing. I had the construction and research missions revamped and in-game in about a week. Alot of the minor changes and fixes I do end up in the following patch :p

But sometimes things take a while to get done. I think I already have about 100hrs into the Weapon damage area.

[QuantumDelta]

Well like I said if you need a hand...nutbar :p

[Dirus]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Well like I said if you need a hand...nutbar :p

Yeah.. you goto work for me, and I'll stay home and work on Neocron. Tho I hope you like leavin the house at 9:30am and not getting home till almost midnight ;)


Oh and I still get the paychecks :p

[QuantumDelta]

If I get room'n'board it's a deal o_O

[Shadow Dancer]

Lupus hurry up with your PSI rework list. :p

[Delloda]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Lupus hurry up with your PSI rework list. :p


Gimme a holy anti-buff santum! :lol:

[Clyde]

how about the ability to just find shit layin on the ground, in a box or somethin like for example, first time i was in gaya mines, when i went down that ladder i noticed a pile of bones just chillin there and was targetable, me thinkin that the dead dude coulda had somethin i clicked it to find chitin 0_o. there should me rare shit all over the place that spawns at random and the chance (that doesnt look lik i spelled it right for some reason 0_o) of it spawning in the same place it very unlikely. people will explore if there a reason/benifit for doing it plain and simple

edit: not rares rares like weps or what not. just rare shit like lets say that dude had a written diary in the form of a datacube that you can read what happened to him or somethin. and even that idea you can build on, lets say you can put bones like that all over the world each having a dairy that leads to somethin that has to do with the story, maybe like they was part of a squad in the ceres war and got splitted up. or how bout a hidden caves where the psi monks used to live where you go down and theres like a small ghost abandoned city with bones and shit layin around. shit like that you can add little quests and you get like a certain reward, or like you collect all these dairys and take them to a certain npc who could be like a relitave of one of the dead dudes and he wants to know what happened, he gives you some random reward like a special psi glove (if the dude wanted the diarys from the psi monk area) that adds some small bonus like +1 psi lvl or a tl 25 shelter that last a bit longer and has lower reqs, but you can only do that mission once. rewards that arent over powered, every class can use and gives a lil benifit, just enough to make people want to find this stuff, would be extremely tight, and wouldnt be hard to implement

[Viduus[JBX]]

"...and wouldnt be hard to implement"

I think that's the base of a good idea, but I disagree as to the ease of adding it to the game.

Even the smallest changes require hundreds of man-hours and testing -- and heaven knows we don't want any more bugs in this already bugged software.....

[Nullifidian]

Originally posted by Viduus[JBX]
"...and wouldnt be hard to implement"

I think that's the base of a good idea, but I disagree as to the ease of adding it to the game.

Even the smallest changes require hundreds of man-hours and testing -- and heaven knows we don't want any more bugs in this already bugged software.....


The final decision of how difficult anything would be is a decision that should be made by KK.

I just spent an hour sitting in a user meeting at work. I was astonished at some of the stuff I heard. Users were talking about functionality they wanted, but then dismissed much of it before the end of the meeting because they didn't think development could do it easily. All of the stuff they dismissed was stuff we at development could very EASILY accomplish. However, those things will now not get implemented because the users have decided not to request them.


So I learned a valuable lesson: as a user, if you want something, ask for it and don't try to figure out how to do it, just ask for what you want as an end result. Let the developers figure out how to accomplish it, because no matter how much you may think you know how something can or can't be implemented, the developers know better. They know the code better, they know the game functionality better, they know the database better, they know everything better that's needed to know to make a rational decision about what realistically can or cannot be done, and the difficulty associated with that task.


So, if you want something, ask for it, don't question whether or not it can be done, and don't censor yourself due to your perception of the difficulty of implementation.

[Viduus[JBX]]

My pardon, I did not mean to suggest that it shouldn't be requested, only that the assumption that it could be easily entered into an existing system as a new subsystem was incorrect.

Thanks for making that point, it's a good one as well.

[Heraclitus]

ATM the rare system I find most supportable is the one it seems they are looking to implement (ie the rare book + run system). This way there's no real collecting, just the acquisition of one part from a mob (it seems premature to gripe about droprates atm as there's only one rare that is dropped in this fashion). Once you get that starter part you know that you at least have a solid potential at that whole part. Interplayer trading will be reduced some, but I think the people that ENJOY sifting through TRADE-NC are in the minority.

It would mean a lot more work for the devs as they'd most likely have to code in a run for each individual rare, but maybe this would make them take a long hard look at the rares in the pool and maybe cut them down a touch. Ultimately I think the droprates and the difficulty of the mobs that drop are dependant upon the quality of the rare itself and the difficulty of the run. The fact that there are two factors of difficulty allows for a lot of neat variations. For instance you could have a starter part that drops pretty frequently, but a really challenging run for the part or vice versa. Lower-TL rares and rares that aren't as "powerful" as others could have fairly easy runs. That way the lower-end rares might see some more use if not just for mob killing. If rares were tweaked some as Lupus is implying, there could be an attractive side to every rare. If you do close the gap between rares (nevermind between rares and non-rares) this system begins to wrok even better, IMO. This way players might be looking for X, but when Y drops they're happy to have Y for the moment and Y may only be slightly inferior to X. They do the run for Y and now they are more powerful and better able to continue searching for X. This adds a little freshness to rare-hunting.

One other neat thing is that say all 120/120 mobs have a chance of dropping rares. But lets not say that there's an X% chance of any rare dropping but that a certain pool of rares ALL have an Y% chance of dropping on any given boss. Each boss has their own pool of rares that they drop with some overlapping boss to boss. Eventually players will come to know and pass on which bosses drop which rares and they can hedge their bets as far as getting the rare that they want. Also making a drop-check on EACH of the possible rares allows for the outside chance of multiple rares dropping AND if you increase the rare pool for that boss, the chances of a rare dropping INCREASE.

As we all know 120/120 mobs are not created alike. It would be nice if extra consideration were given to the overall difficulty of the mob when determining the pool it has and that it generally be avoided that too many rares (if any at all) be near-impossible to acquire. I guess this goes without saying and would ultimately be worked out over time.