View Full Version : No books droppin ONOS!!!!
nonamebrandeggs
24-09-03, 19:18
ONOS THE BOOKS HAVE NOT DROPPED AFTER WE KILLED THE DOOM HARBRING 5 TIMES ARE YOU SURE THEY ARE DROPPING? THIS IS PLUTO SERVER BY THE WAY!
it takes lots ive heard, like 40 kills
On Test Server the chance of a book dropping is about 1 in 10, maybe even lower :(
Mighty Max
24-09-03, 19:21
Boss monsters MAY drop em => rare, and i hope 1 of 100 or so
They are VERY rare, even on the test server where loot is doubled up :P
I think someone said there is less than 1% chance of a drop.
nonamebrandeggs
24-09-03, 19:22
OMG OK I'LL KEEP TRUCKIN
GIRL, IW ANNA TAKR YOU TO A GAY BAR!
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
GIRL, IW ANNA TAKR YOU TO A GAY BAR!
http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar
Something just occured to me..........what if the slots are random like the other epic weapons.....which they probably are........you could do the run and get 0 slots :eek:
Considering how hard the books are to get, i think every Terminator should be full artifact 5 slots o_O
Vampire222
24-09-03, 19:52
this games becoming more and more neocampish, wats the fun of having to gank some mob 200 times to get a rare gun, thats not even worth using....
___T-X____
24-09-03, 19:57
edit. sorry.
Originally posted by Rizzy
You_mum's_an_astronaut 69/67 Rifle PE
ONOES!! TEH DARK SIDE!!
from the german forums
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Serpent
welchem verhältnis dropt das book?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 zu 1000
Bellerophon said that, hes an event guy. Dunno if that means 1 in 1000 boss mobs kills or not
[TgR]KILLER
24-09-03, 20:12
yea man we killed that har dude for quite some time no b00ks @ all :/
man, kk hand us a bone... and a very nice bone at that, and then they smash our teeth out when wrenching it from our eager jaws =/
:(
sweet making a pa quest mission harder than it is to get an mc5 chip...hmmmmmmm:lol:
Mighty Max
24-09-03, 20:57
sweet making a pa quest mission harder than it is to get an mc5 chip...hmmmmmmm
A Terminator is not a PA ....
this games becoming more and more neocampish, wats the fun of having to gank some mob 200 times to get a rare gun, thats not even worth using....
Thought about that maybe luckily get a book AND THEN goes for the Item? Not all players say, i need that item NOW and i have to camp.
For me the drop of the item would trigger my affords to get the rifle .... not the existance of this rifle itself.
Richard Angelus
24-09-03, 21:00
its not 1:1000
Bellerophon said 1 : 100
TheDuckMan
25-09-03, 00:22
maybe they dont want us to get it because then we'll realize how ugly and a waste of time it is.
Shadow Dancer
25-09-03, 00:24
Um i'm gonna have to agree i'm getting pretty sick and tired of the neocamp style gameplay KK is seemingly trying to promote.
WTF is the obession with camping? Why must everything you want be a super boring long drawn-out campfest? Why does it have to be....................... a second job? Where you actually WORK?
I mean there's a difference between working and *working*.
Mumblyfish
25-09-03, 00:27
You see, the best way to do this is start doing boss runs for FUN.
Believe it or not, if you go into a cave simply to smash shit up, you'll end up having fun. And the Book is simply an added bonus.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Um i'm gonna have to agree i'm getting pretty sick and tired of the neocamp style gameplay KK is seemingly trying to promote.
WTF is the obession with camping? Why must everything you want be a super boring long drawn-out campfest? Why does it have to be....................... a second job? Where you actually WORK?
I mean there's a difference between working and *working*.
I have to agree with you, for once :p :p
Shadow Dancer
25-09-03, 00:32
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
I have to agree with you, for once :p :p
You mean you don't agree with my parashock NERF!!!???
:p
:eek:
KidWithStick
25-09-03, 00:35
everyone needs to start calling it paraSPAM
Originally posted by Mumblyfish
You see, the best way to do this is start doing boss runs for FUN.
Believe it or not, if you go into a cave simply to smash shit up, you'll end up having fun. And the Book is simply an added bonus.
Doing the point red run, gangland style with 3-4 people zipping past the rocket hombres in hit and run attacks is GREAT. People before were just bitching about the fact that the loot wasn't good. well, not anymore!! ( excellent rocket launchers with slots, some naders, possibility of book, possibility of rarepart ).
Gogogo Gangland style!
Originally posted by KidWithStick
everyone needs to start calling it paraSPAM
good call; from now all all para-things will be known by the proper phrase: PARA-SPAM
:D
back on topic: yeah drops of books are insanely low... anyone got one yet? i'm dieing to know...
Originally posted by Drake6k
http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar
Love this thing!
love that band also!
LETS START A WAR!
*sings and dances*
Hmm... remind me the next time I'm on, I'll try my luck at getting one for you eggs :D
i think its something to work for.. it takes time.. i like that
i rather camp places and trade than get the item in 5 min and get bored after some hours cause it took no afford :rolleyes:
at least it gives me something to do..
if you get a book now then you're 100 x more happy than if you would get one after 10 mins ( like nearly everything else in nc if you really want it ) :)
.cy
<sigh> ... KK is trying really hard to revitalize this game, in this instance to create alternative ways to get stuff and hopefully make it more fun ... except what one person finds interesting three others will find boring or just plain stupid. Check any of the forum threads and see for yourself: a lot of people complaining no matter what KK does. Yes, there are people saying they like various changes, and others are constructively offering alternatives, but lots of bitching and moaning, all the time. It is human nature, it seems, for at least half the population to complain no matter what someone does to try to make them happier.
What do you do when you are a game developer and you find that no matter what you do to please the players, you get loads of grief in return? Go find some other job maybe. Wonder if KK has much turnover in staff ...
EDIT: okay, so maybe this post doesn't belong here specifically, but i had just finished reading a bunch of threads with lots of griping and then i got to this one with more complaints and it all sort of exceeded my threshold.
Spook
ericdraven
25-09-03, 10:21
Originally posted by MegaCorp
What do you do when you are a game developer and you find that no matter what you do to please the players, you get loads of grief in return? Go find some other job maybe. Wonder if KK has much turnover in staff ...
Heh.. it's the well known problem.. people want to get everything with no effort.. why not up the droprate from 1:100 to 100:1? 100 books per kill - would that make you happy? :lol:
Richard Slade
25-09-03, 10:33
I think most people here, as usual in this RPG-none-CS-wannabe-even-though-everyone-thinks-so-game, has forgotten the primary part in this game: Fun
I'm playing and having damn fun, nearly capped my monk and spy now,
rerolled some tanks and spies too though but I like that
Never been at an OP fight, never hunted for rares
I don't care much as long as I can have a laugh with my friends.
u'll never see me shouting in plaza for 3 hours "WTS: Shit WTT: Crap"
...
It's no fun in that IMO,
this is a game
Games are made for entertainment
Entertainment is not entertainment if it isn't fun
Stop caring about your Cursed Soul, your Libby, the new Terminator,
who gives a shit? If u find it, you find it, and that's great.
But don't forget the most important part in this game:
Entertainment
ericdraven
25-09-03, 10:38
Well Richard, for you this is fun, for other people other things are fun.
Me for example - i like to hunt mobs for rares and for MC5 parts, and i do NOT whine if i get no rare parts after ten hours of hunting (well, this never happend so far, but still.. :p).
But then there are people who wanna have every rare in the game but complain that it's so "difficult" to get them.. and they hunt maybe ten minutes a day.. if at all.. i mean - wtf?!
i too object to the requirement to camp cave-bosses, although i believe i have a few valid reasons for this.
1. caves are not the natural hunting grounds of rifle users, and yet the ultimate prize in this case is a rifle. let the punishment fit the crime, and the reward fit too.
2. cave trolling is best done with a party, or in some cases is only possible with a party - often a large one. again, a rifler is not necessarily a party animal. mostly a loner. same can be said of the entire PE class for that matter.
3. you are supposed to be able to play this game, and enjoy it, as a loner. if there's any class that fits the loner best, it's the PE. if there's any subclass that fits loner best, it's the rifler. if there's anything that rifle PEs do least well, it's killing fekkin cave boss mobs.
give us our runs starting from grim chasers, the natural prey of riflers. let PPUs get a run from cave boss mobs. let spys get one from warbots (they are more likely to have hack). and so on.
dang.
ericdraven
25-09-03, 11:37
Originally posted by s0apy
give us our runs starting from grim chasers, the natural prey of riflers. let PPUs get a run from cave boss mobs. let spys get one from warbots (they are more likely to have hack). and so on.
Good post with a good idea. :)
Richard Slade
25-09-03, 12:33
Well if ppl want every damn rare, and 5 slots on it for that matter,
they damn well better enjoy doing it, and in that case I can tell
you for a fact that my bets are on that NOONE has 5slots of each
damn rare weapon in this game, correct me if I'm wrong.
And if they have I can't see why they're still playing.
As I said before, what's everyone's problem with "camping" the
cave mob bosses? Most people go through the Chaos Caves
quite a lot of times just to cap their character (Or, in the case of
droners, they kill the snakes lots of times in order to cap ;p), in
that process, you'll likely be killing the boss mob as well, and if
you're lucky you/your clan/your mates/some random dude you
don't know will get a book.
If it's someone in your clan, or a mate of yours, who get's it and
they know you'll have a use for it; they'll likely give it to you.
Originally posted by J. Folsom
As I said before, what's everyone's problem with "camping" the
cave mob bosses? Most people go through the Chaos Caves
quite a lot of times just to cap their character (Or, in the case of
droners, they kill the snakes lots of times in order to cap ;p), in
that process, you'll likely be killing the boss mob as well, and if
you're lucky you/your clan/your mates/some random dude you
don't know will get a book.
If it's someone in your clan, or a mate of yours, who get's it and
they know you'll have a use for it; they'll likely give it to you.
and as i said, this is not in the spirit of the class to which this particlar reward pertains. you mention droners, and clan mates - but as a "lone gunman", a PE rifler won't have much chance, or cause, to be killing cave boss mobs. much less a rifle spy.
yes you can get a group together, but were you to want to do this alone you're stuffed, and this isn't an option. you CAN do this as a team, yes, but if you want to go out and obtain items for yourself, living by your own wits and wiles, or even (dare i say it) roleplay your character as a loner, your STUFFED.
and yes, you can buy the item from someone else, but how is that fun?
and finally, in RP-terms, this item should appear as a surprise to the character. you go about your daily business of hunting or levelling, in the course of which you find this item and you think "oh oh! what's this?". which begins your little adventure (call it a "run" if you must).
but the daily business of rifle PEs, and certainly rifle spys, is NOT killing CAVE boss mobs day in, day out. chasers and percys and warbots etc, yes. you don't really have any cause to be in such places as a rifler. rifles are about RANGE = wide open spaces = wastelands. does NOT = caves and enclosed spaces. tanks, pistols, APUs, PPUs sure, but NOT rifles.
well im going back to worm caves tonight possiably with lexxy in tow if i get one be sure i`ll be straight for that terminator and if i get that then i`ll be swapping it for as many cs parts as i can :)
nonamebrandeggs
25-09-03, 14:40
Originally posted by hinch
well im going back to worm caves tonight possiably with lexxy in tow if i get one be sure i`ll be straight for that terminator and if i get that then i`ll be swapping it for as many cs parts as i can :)
Correction: You will swap it to me for as much sex as I have.
gimmeh cs parts and you can have it
i need a good cs :) i got 2 bits so far also accepting heavy ultima mods
Originally posted by ericdraven
...
But then there are people who wanna have every rare in the game but complain that it's so "difficult" to get them.. and they hunt maybe ten minutes a day.. if at all.. i mean - wtf?!
Advisory: this is NOT a flame
looking at your list of characters you appear to have a lot of time to play NC (i appreciate appearances can be deceptive though) so yeah you spend 10 hours farming techs, i dont begrudge you those techs, you put the work in to get them, but some people just simply dont have time to farm techs all day, 10 minutes may be all the time they have to spend for one reason or another.
i dont spend that much time playing NC compared to some peeps and i appreciate that this being an MMORPG i am not going to get rare stuff that often, but having to do runs to get spy / pe pa or having to kill a 100 boss mobs to get an item before you can START a run is too much wasted time.
if this game had a higher numbers of players you would see waiting lists for boss / item areas like everquest, to me that isnt fun, other than for a minority with the time and patience tospend waiting for their turn in the line
Originally posted by icarium
i dont spend that much time playing NC compared to some peeps and i appreciate that this being an MMORPG i am not going to get rare stuff that often, but having to do runs to get spy / pe pa or having to kill a 100 boss mobs to get an item before you can START a run is too much wasted time.
this is a common theme. i would add, therefore, the observation that KK seems intent on have 3 levels of experience for acquiring items:
1. buy stuff in shops.
2. farm techs/imps from hard, but not impossible to kill, mobs. can also be done as part of regular levelling - with luck by the time you are capped you will have enough parts to trade or build an item useful to you.
3. kill 100's of the same ultra-hard-to-kill mob, surrounded by other ultra-hard-to-kill mobs, in an otherwise pointless gangbangfest.
i would add that if people are still obtaining things from the item 3 category with relative "ease", then these mobs/area will be made harder still.
i've been relatively sanguine about KK saying, in effect, that i can never have an MC5 chip, since my style of play, ability, and above all patience, precludes me from obtaining them. however, if still more items fall into category 3, i and others shall become heartily disillusioned, given that the only people able to aquire such items will steadly become 24/7 players who teamspeak with other 24/7 players, or highlevel APU/PPU combos (which i am not, lol).
dang.
ericdraven
25-09-03, 15:24
What can i say.. i work (at least) ten hours a day... then.. unfortunately i am already in an age where i need at least six hours of sleep (ah.. where are the times as 3-4 hours were enough? o_O )..
Of course i have to drive from/to work.. eating sometimes as well, as other necessary things.. i am FAR away from ten hours playing a day.
I don't go to school nor do i study anymore, so I do not have 15 hours/day free time.
Conclusion - you do not need 10 hours+ to achieve something in this game, because.. this game is easy.
Originally posted by Drake6k
http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar
L0L0L!!!@@@ 0MFG!
Thanks! At last I know where that Gaybar stuff came form.
Spy<VS>Spy
25-09-03, 16:45
we have been busy power sqiushing mobs, i think i clocked us at like 4 minutes a dungeon run...and we still havnt gotten anything yet, i'm gona see if we can continue the trend.
however, we arnt the ONLY guys doing this, legions a tiny clan after all, so it would leave me to belive that the odds are even higher then that...cause luck would have to kick in for someone. though maybe someone does have an ancient book already and isnt telling.
who knows. we are beginning to wonder if a GM has to do something specail for the mob to drop it...we also dont belive for a second that kami soilders work in any fathonmy patern. heh.
ericdraven
25-09-03, 16:52
The loot table claims a drop rate of 0.1%.
When I posted the idea a few weeks back of having an epic type run for low rare items Callash said that he had had an idea like that and that it had "a slight twist". So the twist was having a boss mob dropped book with a 1:100 drop chance eh? Nice twist. Shame the whole idea was to make rares easyer to come by.
As this is a test for wether this will actually apply to some of the lower rares I HOPE AMONG HOPE that the 1:100 drop rates are for a SPECIFIC book, and that actually one book drops every time you kill a boss mob, its just a 1:100 that you get the one you actually want.
This is what I'm hoping. If it stays at 1:100 for a random book of all the low level rares then I might just leave, as the game has fucked off from its routes and it trying to be everquest in the future.
you should be able to kill a mob once and get a tech part, book, every time. but this sorta rule dont apeal to the people who dont have gilfriends to please unfortunately.
lmao sy.
I just can't see why people would want "rare" weapons to actually be rare... I mean can't they see that it is wrecking the game?
Originally posted by Judge
lmao sy.
I just can't see why people would want "rare" weapons to actually be rare... I mean can't they see that it is wrecking the game?
Exactly. I'm really fed up of all this "rares should be rare" bullshit. I'm lucky, i have a few hours to spend each day playing NC, but there's a lot who don't. I'm not saying these people should be handed rare items on a plate for doing fuck all, but 1 in 100 drop rate is quite frankly ridiculous. As someone has already pointed out, the books are harder to get than MC5 chips. That is just wrong.
I agree with Shadow. One of the worst things about this game is how you have to camp to get good xp and good items. That might be ok in other MMORPGs, but get this:
NC is NOT other MMORPGs.
:rolleyes:
I dont mind cave runs i still have 11 lvl's of int to get and cave runs are flat out the best XP. and doom harbringers drop sweet judjement launchers(got a bunch of artifact 2-3 slots) that sell for good money to yo's. hell it gives me something to do for a ferw hours a day...and maybe since now demand for these books is going up more ppl will be caving and ill have more victims to kill when they come to try and gank my doomie
Cave runs aren't the only way people level up dude.... having these items limited to cave mobs was a poor idea I think.
Nullifidian
25-09-03, 19:57
Originally posted by Rizzy
it takes lots ive heard, like 40 kills
And so we are now playing Everquest. I told you this would happen. The conversion is complete.
no not yet; they'll make pvp illegal and make a "arena" then duels and such... and u need like 50 items to do an epic... and erm other shit... then its eq... :D
Nulli, the actual drop rate is 0.1%, so thats 1 in 1000 kills
Hey we all love EQ !!!!
Thats why were playing Neocron!!!
*sigh*
If there is such a thing as a "typical KK" mistake, this is it.
Take a reasonable idea, then implement it in an unnesessarily awkward manner and throw in some hugely excessive factor to top it off.
The excessively low drop chance is the biggest factor.
1 in 10 would have been sane. 1 in 20 would have been too harsh, but copable with. 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 (depending on whose numbers you believe) is just ludicrous.
This is a textbook case where the normal KK "min/max" method is just totally inappropriate. (i.e. test at the extremes of a value range, then adjust... perhaps... if someone remembers)
From a personal rather than general point of view another factor is it being cave mobs ...
There's a reason you almost never see a non-droner spy in a cave dungeon, KK.
We have sod all armour, sod all resist, sod all health, no AoE, no chance to use range as a compensator, stealth is ineffective because you will nearly always be inside the mob's dtection radius, so they wil target you regardless.
It's hard to imagine an environment *less* conducive to a rifler being able to obtain a ... rifle. :rolleyes:
@Callash: I appreciate the work to create a new method of rare acquisition ... but perhaps a little more thought as to the gameplay consequences and practicalities, rather than the mechanics of the method please.
Nullifidian
25-09-03, 20:51
Originally posted by Rizzy
Nulli, the actual drop rate is 0.1%, so thats 1 in 1000 kills
Ah, so it's even worse.
I'm honestly fucking disgusted with this. I'm seriously losing hope for this game.
but perhaps a little more thought as to the gameplay consequences and practicalities, rather than the mechanics of the method please.
I said over and over and over the problems this would cause. I begged them not to implement it this way. I said camping would occur and people said it wouldn't happen.
When they introduced rares I said it would become necessary to have rares and people would have to farm them and would get pissed at the repeatative gameplay. Everyone said no, that rares wouldn't be necessary, they would just be there to give a slight advantage to those who put the extra effort into obtaining them. We all know how that's turned out.
So far I have yet to be wrong in any of my predictions.
Heraclitus
25-09-03, 20:53
Originally posted by Nullifidian
And so we are now playing Everquest. I told you this would happen. The conversion is complete.
o rly
What's funny is that people are simultaneously denigrating the terminator as a weapon and bitching about the fact that it isn't handed to them. You can't whine that the Terminator is NECESSARY for PvP (which is a circular argument anyway) because very few people will ever see the thing. Of course this is an extension of people bitching that ALL rares aren't handed to them. I'm about to make a poll to guage this.
Nullifidian
25-09-03, 21:01
Originally posted by Heraclitus
o rly
What's funny is that people are simultaneously denigrating the terminator as a weapon and bitching about the fact that it isn't handed to them. You can't whine that the Terminator is NECESSARY for PvP (which is a circular argument anyway) because very few people will ever see the thing. Of course this is an extension of people bitching that ALL rares aren't handed to them. I'm about to make a poll to guage this.
No one bitches that rares aren't handed to them. We bitch that we have to do something over and over and over and over to get it. There is NO CHALLENGE. Only prolonged wait. It is not fun to wait. It is not fun to farm. Get that through your thick fucking skull. You want something to be rare, find another fucking method. Decreasing droprate and spawnrate causes camping and farming. Camping and farming are in no way challenging and they sure as hell aren't fucking fun. There is no skill attributed to either other than patience.
Game should be FUN, not a goddamn tedious fucking chore. This game is becoming more of a chore every goddamn motherfucking patch. If they hadn't announced live runs, I'd be fucking gone by now. I still have hope for this game, but that hope is waning; it's waning fast.
if your definition of fun involves running through a cave over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.... then fine...
however most of us sees that as one thing: BORING
Heraclitus
25-09-03, 21:04
Fine then, define your middle ground you're being vague. Lets say you're of a level that allows you to solo WBs with only a small chance of dying (given overall awareness). Lets also say you play the game 1 hour a day. How long should it take you to complete, say, two rares, given the ability to trade for parts?
EDIT: to the above poster: Again, that's a rediculous argument as what is MAKING you get this ONE WEAPON? How is it so important that you MUST kill a cave boss over and over to get it?
at the current drop rate: for making 2 DECENT RARES (none of that melee/slot enhancer shit): hunting for 1 hour a day will take u around 3-7 days depending.
that is still boring but fine its acceptable...
but with the books, the 1/1000 drop rate is pure bs... thats worse than techs drops; as it takes roughly 1/250 to get a part u need TOPS...
i know that this method of introducing rares is an attempt at giving more flavor while not diluting the tech pool and i think its a brilliant idea... but the drop rate for it is too insanly low... make it 1/50 even... and thats "OK"
/edit: well then what is making u get other tech parts? same case, different process.
CryptoChronic
25-09-03, 21:13
i dissagree.... im happy that there are actual 'rare' items now.
Nullifidian
25-09-03, 21:14
Originally posted by mdares
at the current drop rate: for making 2 DECENT RARES (none of that melee/slot enhancer shit): hunting for 1 hour a day will take u around 3-7 days depending.
that is still boring but fine its acceptable...
but with the books, the 1/1000 drop rate is pure bs... thats worse than techs drops; as it takes roughly 1/250 to get a part u need TOPS...
i know that this method of introducing rares is an attempt at giving more flavor and i think its a brilliant idea... but the drop rate for it is too insanly low... make it 1/25 even... and thats "OK"
/edit: well then what is making u get other tech parts? same case, different process.
How about make it 1 in 1!
OMG, imagine that, you wouldn't have to camp! You wouldn't have to farm! You could just go and DO the fucking quest! Actually get right to the interesting part almost immediately! Do something new without having to do something else 2390847632987461892763423 times in a row first!
Heraclitus
25-09-03, 21:14
Well I actually agree that 1 out of every 1000 (if this stat is true) is too low for a droprate. I'm not sure how reliable the sources are on this, though. I personally like the idea or rare runs that need a certain something to start, especially if there were a lot of variety in it.
If ALL the rares had runs and a single item needed to start the run, 1 in 1000 FOR EACH PART is not a bad rate for drops, considering how many rares are in the pool. That way the more rares you add to the pool the more likely you are to get rares, not the other way around as it stands now.
Heraclitus
25-09-03, 21:16
Originally posted by Nullifidian
How about make it 1 in 1!
OMG, imagine that, you wouldn't have to camp! You wouldn't have to farm! You could just go and DO the fucking quest! Actually get right to the interesting part almost immediately! Do something new without having to do something else 2390847632987461892763423 times in a row first!
Imagine going and playing Planetside that claims no RPG aspects at all.
well yeah 1 in 1 would be great as then we can actuallly do the quest w/o mindless camping... but somehow i doubt thats gonna happen...
nonamebrandeggs
25-09-03, 21:18
Isn't it sort of funny that the current rarest gun is only TL 88 and probobly about as powerful as a Wyatt? :rolleyes:
yeah... its peobably easier to get MC5s... i bet if we have 2 teams of 3 apus and 3 ppus, 1 group doing dungeons and 1 group doing MC5, the MC5 group would have atleast 2 chips completed by the time the cave group gets a quest :p
Nullifidian
25-09-03, 21:33
Originally posted by Heraclitus
Imagine going and playing Planetside that claims no RPG aspects at all.
WHAT IN THE FUCK DOES FARMING HAVE TO DO WITH ROLEPLAYING?!
I'll tell you one thing, farming mindless mobs sure as hell doesn't make me feel like a part of a wasteland community in the post apocalyptic future.
I want dynamic quests. I want to be able to participate in subplots that are unique. By unique I mean that they happen once and once only and only for me and never again. I want content that is generated on the fly and is different for every person who plays the game and tailored to the role they have chosen. If you want to be a mercenary only concerned with fighting, then you'd get bounties and protection missions, etc. But if you wanted to be a hacker, you might find yourself running missions to retrieve secret information from corporate databases, and find yourself on the run looking over your back around every corner for a corp croney looking to gun you down. If you wanted to be an Inquistor for Crahn, you'd endure persecution for being a hated and feared psi-monk and have to be ruthless, heartless, and cruel to uphold the will of the Church.
Basically, I'm asking for a roleplaying game. Imagine that. What a strange concept.
Originally posted by Rizzy
Nulli, the actual drop rate is 0.1%, so thats 1 in 1000 kills
I read someplace (from Lupus or Callash IIRC) that those "%ages% are nothing of the kind and that people are misreading those files.
Best example - Viper King Armour is "4%". When was the last time you looted him and got no armour?
Shadow Dancer
25-09-03, 22:13
Originally posted by ericdraven
Heh.. it's the well known problem.. people want to get everything with no effort.. why not up the droprate from 1:100 to 100:1? 100 books per kill - would that make you happy? :lol:
Or you could make it 20:100.
See?
Without making stupid black and white narrow comments like "OMG PEOPLE WANT FREE FOOD STAMPS LOLOOLL" you could try to find a compromise. People are complaining because the initial problem is still there. It's like the hybrid problem. They went through like 3-4 changes and were still mega overpowered, of course people are gonna still complain. If KK does something and the problem is STILL there, wtf you expect?
Why don't you LISTEN to what people are saying? You don't listen eric. All you do is make silly comments and say stuff like "but people don't wanna hunt more than 5 minutes" etc...
Originally posted by Richard Slade
I think most people here, as usual in this RPG-none-CS-wannabe-even-though-everyone-thinks-so-game, has forgotten the primary part in this game: Fun
I'm playing and having damn fun, nearly capped my monk and spy now,
rerolled some tanks and spies too though but I like that
Never been at an OP fight, never hunted for rares
I don't care much as long as I can have a laugh with my friends.
u'll never see me shouting in plaza for 3 hours "WTS: Shit WTT: Crap"
...
It's no fun in that IMO,
this is a game
Games are made for entertainment
Entertainment is not entertainment if it isn't fun
Stop caring about your Cursed Soul, your Libby, the new Terminator,
who gives a shit? If u find it, you find it, and that's great.
But don't forget the most important part in this game:
Entertainment
Differnet people find different shit entertaining.
If someone LOVES pvp and finds PvP entertaining, i'm sure their "care" about rares will be much higher than yours since rares are NEEDED for pvp. Now maybe if KK got it through their thick skull that RARE and PVP don't fucking go together, maybe everyone will be alot happier.
Originally posted by Richard Slade
Well if ppl want every damn rare, and 5 slots on it for that matter,
Another silly exaggeration.
Originally posted by Judge
as the game has fucked off from its routes and it trying to be everquest in the future.
That's what i'm worried about. I don't want fucking everquest, and that's where this game is headed.
Originally posted by Lethys
NC is NOT other MMORPGs.
:rolleyes:
yup
Exactly.
What's next, a fucking dragon and fairies in a "magical" cave?
WTF is this game headed to?
Originally posted by kurai
*sigh*
If there is such a thing as a "typical KK" mistake, this is it.
Take a reasonable idea, then implement it in an unnesessarily awkward manner and throw in some hugely excessive factor to top it off.
The excessively low drop chance is the biggest factor.
1 in 10 would have been sane. 1 in 20 would have been too harsh, but copable with. 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 (depending on whose numbers you believe) is just ludicrous.
This is a textbook case where the normal KK "min/max" method is just totally inappropriate. (i.e. test at the extremes of a value range, then adjust... perhaps... if someone remembers)
From a personal rather than general point of view another factor is it being cave mobs ...
There's a reason you almost never see a non-droner spy in a cave dungeon, KK.
We have sod all armour, sod all resist, sod all health, no AoE, no chance to use range as a compensator, stealth is ineffective because you will nearly always be inside the mob's dtection radius, so they wil target you regardless.
It's hard to imagine an environment *less* conducive to a rifler being able to obtain a ... rifle. :rolleyes:
@Callash: I appreciate the work to create a new method of rare acquisition ... but perhaps a little more thought as to the gameplay consequences and practicalities, rather than the mechanics of the method please.
Kurai>all
Originally posted by Nullifidian
No one bitches that rares aren't handed to them. We bitch that we have to do something over and over and over and over to get it. There is NO CHALLENGE. Only prolonged wait. It is not fun to wait. It is not fun to farm. Get that through your thick fucking skull. You want something to be rare, find another fucking method. Decreasing droprate and spawnrate causes camping and farming. Camping and farming are in no way challenging and they sure as hell aren't fucking fun. There is no skill attributed to either other than patience.
Exactly goddamnit. I thought games were supposed to be fun? Like eric and richard love to claim. :rolleyes:
Camping for several frikkin hours is not fun. I'd like to "work" for it if the "work" was remotely fun, let's say um....this is bullshit and will never happen but it'll prove a point, let's say you had to pvp for several hours to gain techparts, I would love that. Because then "working"(in a mmorpg :rolleyes: ) for my rares would be fun.
Not scouring the damn wastes of a horrific spawn just to kill some mindless mob.
Spy<VS>Spy
25-09-03, 22:25
Originally posted by CryptoChronic
i dissagree.... im happy that there are actual 'rare' items now.
See the thing is, for it to be actually 'rare' a GM would have to come down, make something, copy 5 of them, throw them around in some specail containers. not say anything...preferably, be an actually KK employee, that hates everyone on the server, hopes no one finds them, and that if they do...lose them durring a roll back or synch crash.
those said items, would then be. 'rare' because, to be rare, there has to be a finite number of them avaible. like a rare coin, or a rare car. however, there is a chance for an infinite number of these weapons to be made.
so, i class this weapon as, 'less likely' other then rare. :)
Nullifidian
25-09-03, 22:33
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
See the thing is, for it to be actually 'rare' a GM would have to come down, make something, copy 5 of them, throw them around in some specail containers. not say anything...preferably, be an actually KK employee, that hates everyone on the server, hopes no one finds them, and that if they do...lose them durring a roll back or synch crash.
those said items, would then be. 'rare' because, to be rare, there has to be a finite number of them avaible. like a rare coin, or a rare car. however, there is a chance for an infinite number of these weapons to be made.
so, i class this weapon as, 'less likely' other then rare. :)
Danke sehr, you're right on the money, bro.
As long as there is no finite limit to the number there can be, they will not be 'rare' for very long if at all.
Actually, I wouldn't mind rares being rare as in only 3 or 4 of them existing at all. Then they wouldn't be so fucking annoying. You truly would want one, but if you didn't have one it wouldn't be the end of the world because you would be just as helpful as most folks at an OP fight or whatever there is to do in this FPS RPG wannabe. The folks that did have them would have prestige to the point where they would be pivotal members of the community and other players would naturally flock to them and follow them because they would be almost unrivaled in a fight.
Yes, I think TRUE rares in the finite sense would be a good thing. Make them truly very very rare indeed, and they would fit quite nicely.
This is a PvP game at its core. Thats the idea. If anyone disagrees with that then they aren't playing the same game that I am.
So we have established that this is a PvP game, but to be useful in PvP you (for the averagely skillled gamer) need a rare, except if you are a tech pistol PE then you can use the blacksun.
Thus why should rares take a FUCKING WEEK to get hold of. You can level a PE up to cap in three days, yet it takes twice as long to get a damn item.
I agree with Nullifidian on everything.
Originally posted by joran420
I dont mind cave runs i still have 11 lvl's of int to get and cave runs are flat out the best XP. and doom harbringers drop sweet judjement launchers(got a bunch of artifact 2-3 slots) that sell for good money to yo's. hell it gives me something to do for a ferw hours a day.......
Yep, those reworked dungeon drops are pretty sweet now...
It's a good fringe benefit to the cave runs...
I modded one of the 3 slotted JDL's, you can get 119% stats in them.... :eek:
On the topic of book drops:
Just think how bad it could be if the server populations were full...
At least right now there's enough caves to go around,atm...
I have been thinking alot about server populations lately spoon, and have come to the decision that around 600 people would be perfect. The game wouldn't crash too much and it wouldn't be norammly too laggy but you would have enough people online to talk to and to hunt with though still retaining the ability to have to soloing time on your own occasionally.
Any more and the servers would lag and crash and there wouldn't be enough OPs, PP1s, hunting grounds or places to trade for them all.
Also yes it is a nice fringe benefit.... once in a hundred cave runs. o_O
Nullifidian
25-09-03, 23:16
Imagine a system of rares like this:
Each rare type will only ever have 5 in existance in the gameworld at any time. Parts could be found almost ANYWHERE. On a mob, in a lockbox, in a crate, or even the occasional nomadic trader.
However, once you acquire a part, no matter where you place it, it has the potential of dropping off your body when you are killed. That means that it could drop even if it were in your GG. That is possible until you obtain all of the parts and assemble them into a weapon. Of course, researching these parts would require remote research tools, and building the weapons would require a remote construction tool. Once the weapon is made, it would follow normal drop rules of slot 1 protection and all that.
What this would do is make those with parts try to find and hunt anyone else who might potentially have another part. It'd be like a highlander type scenario in a way. Personally, I think it'd rock.
To top it all off, some of the parts you find, should actually be junk when identified. It would look like an unidentified rare part at first, but when identified, it would wind up being something like "antique television vacuum tube" or something even more useless "hull of Wyatt Earp":lol: something just to make it that much more suspenseful (in case you hadn't noticed, I was poking fun of current useless rares right there).
You wouldn't need rare parts to participate in PvP at all, plus those who really want rares to be rare will be in heaven! Well, actually they won't, because we all know all of them are just assholes who already have rares and just wnat to be more powerful than anyone else, which is why they don't want anyone else ot have them. If they didn't have them to begin and they knew that simply mindlessly camping some mob all day wasn't going to give them it guaranteed, then they'd change their fucking tune.
Originally posted by Judge
Also yes it is a nice fringe benefit.... once in a hundred cave runs. o_O
I was refering to the Weapons the bosses drop, not the strange books....:)
Spy<VS>Spy
25-09-03, 23:50
well yeah, there is that, i mean...heh, the storm lasers and JDL's are cool now...and hey thats always a plus. :) so i guess regardless i'm happy with that.
energy soulblades are also pretty kicking too. i am kinda nackered when it comes to being a spy, nothing drops a keen item that spy's can use, most of its tank stuff, and the queen drops psi spell...titan armor for pe's.
hey, we need more dungeons damn it! heh. dungeons i actaully like in neocron, some of them are designed nicely, i think KK should do more of them.
ericdraven
26-09-03, 00:21
The drop rate of 0.1% comes out of the loot-table. If it's appropriate or not is not in my knowledge.
However, 0.1% means PER ITEM. If the boss drops ten parts then it's a probability of 0,995%.. not that bad, is it? :p
omfg >.< first time i read the title i thought it said "No boobs droppin ONOS!!!!!" i was like ;D w00t boobehs
hey spoon....those modded JDL any good in PvP? wanna test it on me tonight?
Originally posted by joran420
hey spoon....those modded JDL any good in PvP? wanna test it on me tonight?
Sure...
They might be pretty decent for a rocket launcher, it's got higher Aiming% than my CS and the RoF is 30 something, not too bad for a RL...:p
Ok we killed the harbringer at Point Red about 20 times. Got a 5slot, 2 4slot, 3 3slot, and a bunch of 2slot, 1slot, and no slot JDLaunchers.
No booky.
there are 8-10 JDLs in a box in the harbringer room on Saturn for anyone that wants one.
/edit also got 5-6 tech parts out of it.
ZoneVortex
26-09-03, 16:09
Originally posted by Rizzy
Nulli, the actual drop rate is 0.1%, so thats 1 in 1000 kills
er 0.1 = one tenth = 1:10 last time i checked my decimals :D
so that means that a book should drop on average once out of every 10 mobs.
8|
Originally posted by ZoneVortex
er 0.1 = one tenth = 1:10 last time i checked my decimals :D
so that means that a book should drop on average once out of every 10 mobs.
8| Yes.
0.1 = one tenth ..... of a percent. You know ... the "%" symbol.
He said .1%, which is equal to .001, which is 1/1000, which is 1:1000.
Practice Problems:
6% = ?
.05 = ?
Answers:
6% = .06
.05 = 5%
Originally posted by Nullifidian
Game should be FUN, not a goddamn tedious fucking chore. This game is becoming more of a chore every goddamn motherfucking patch. Games fun? Whatever! j/k
Developers design MMOGs to take a long time to keep you playing for as long as possible. Subscription * Time = Income, however, sounds like the tedium is driving some people away. I nearly quit the game before I'd even outgrown the sewers!
Anyway, I pretty much take it for granted that I'm gonna have to spend many hours on leveling, collecting parts, and making money. Then, I go do something fun or at least... less tedious :) Also, think about this: if you spend many hours playing a game, of course you'll run out of new content very quickly! You'll see everything and do everything there is to do if you spend enough time in-game... that's why we're all so rabid for the new PAs and Kami Chips and whatnot....
I'm pysched for the new low-tech rifle. Someone sell me one'a'those rare Strange Books... I hear they're a chore to find ;)
Nullifidian
26-09-03, 19:34
Originally posted by dSerk
I'm pysched for the new low-tech rifle. Someone sell me one'a'those rare Strange Books... I hear they're a chore to find ;)
That's exactly what has happened in EQ. Verant is simply preying off of people who are addicted, yes addicted, to the game. The add in new content, but they force you to spend literally dozens and dozens of hours of online time in order to access any of that content. Because of the addictive personalities of the players, they will sit there online for those hours and hours, doing anything they can, just to get that new item.
It really is done just like drug dealers sell drugs. Let's look at a comparison:
1) Drug dealer gives you a sample to get you high for free
Game company gives you a free trial of a few days or maybe a month
2) The first few times you do a drug, you get high off of small samples, it doesn't take much.
Games are made to have a lot of content that's easily accessible early on in the treadmill. In the beginning you level fast and get new items quick and easily.
3) After several regular doses, you are addicted to a drug
After progressing far enough with a character, you feel you've invested too much and are addicted to the game.
4) Over time, you need larger and larger doses more and more regularly in order to get high
As you progress, it takes more and more time and more effort to advance in levels and get new items.
5) When you are hopelessly addicted, you will do anything to get that next high
When you are hopelessly addicted, you will do anything to get that new level or new item. A quick trip to eBay will show that people are willing to pay large sums of money even. In Neocron, a quick trip to any cave will see people are willing to camp and farm for hours and hours and hours on end. In AO I remember a trip to Nugget's spawnpoint used to have people sitting there literally 24/7, many would wait for 5 or 6 hours at a time doing absolutely nothing.
So in all honesty, including camping and farming is a very sound business practice. But it is in no way ethical. It is exploiting the players. It is praying off of their addiction in exchange for the almighty euro/dollar. If they view themselves as artists, they have failed and failed miserably. If they want to make something that's fun, then they've failed. If they want to be original, then they have failed. But if they just want a business plan that is sound and good for making money, then they have succeeded.
The ethics of including timesinks into a game are akin to the ethics of genetically altering tobacco to be more addictive. Just as tobacco companies know that cigarettes are addictive, so to do MMORPG companies know that their game is addictive.
Just think for a second how cruel it is what they are doing. They know that a hardcore gamer needs his new uber item as much as a crack addict needs his fix. So they tell that gamer that it is not only possible to get that item but there is a surefire way to get it. But getting it means he has to sit in one spot and do a repeatative, torturously tedious task for hours, sometimes days straight. The gamer hates camping, he hates farming, is totally sick of doing this boring repeatative task, but he MUST have that item. If he logs out though, he'll have to start all over with the waiting and the farming, because you never know when the item will drop off that mob, or when that mob will respawn. When he starts camping or farming, he may be done in 20 minutes, or it might take him days. He has no way of knowing, so he has to sit there and be alert and farm and camp away no matter how much he hates doing so. Why? Because he NEEDS that item just as much as that junkie needs his crack. Timesinks are totally and completely unethical. An offical study needs to be done to make them illegal. I'm completely serious.
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html
There you go, the Neocrack is a skinner box.
Originally posted by Nullifidian
It really is done just like drug dealers sell drugs.Apt. Poignant. True, even. Agreed.
Originally posted by Nullifidian
Timesinks are totally and completely unethical. An offical study needs to be done to make them illegal.Um, get some sleep, buddy. You'll feel better after some sleep. Sleep and good food. Eat a warm meal.
Unethical? C'mon! People have to take responsibility for themselves... that's probably part of the reason (not just becuz of pepper park) the Terms of Use require you to be 18... a legal adult. Ya know, we're all playing NC on our own free will--not that junkies AREN'T acting on their own free will--but it is something of a game of chance, like gambling. You can't literally compare a computer game to crack and heroin! You gotta be joking.
Originally posted by Nullifidian
I'm completely serious.Oh, you're serious ;)
When I get bored with NC I do something else. It's just a game. True, it is an addictive game.
Nullifidian
26-09-03, 21:35
But I'm not addicted to it. At one time a while ago I was addicted to AO. I snapped out of it and realised I wasn't having fun. I went through a withdrawal phase where I really wanted to log in, but then I remembered what I'd be doing: camping. I didn't want to go through that, but not a lot of people actually see the light; their desire for more levels and more items is too high. Ever since that time, I have never done any activity in an MMORPG I didn't enjoy doing. Unfortunately, that means I hardly ever even bother to log on to Neocron anymore.
I don't farm and I don't camp, because I don't enjoy doing those things. I gain levels as a coincidental sideeffect of seeking out a goal that interests me. Running a fucking treadmill is boring and I won't do it. I also don't like seeking out a PPU because I can't justify it from a roleplaying perspective. So when I do anything it's usually alone. The only rares I own have been given to me by friends and the only rare parts I have are from killing shit that was in my way. And ya know what? The game is thin. It's so thin it's transparent. Almost non-existant.
ZoneVortex
27-09-03, 02:17
Originally posted by kurai
Yes.
0.1 = one tenth ..... of a percent. You know ... the "%" symbol.
Oops didn't even notice the percent sign.....
this is a joke :( make the drop 1:50 or some thing, or have a special event plz and make loads of em drop cos atm its jsut depressing :(
killed over 57 BQ's
10 Chaos queens
5 harbrinngers
and 0 books
quite a few rares thow :D
Doc Holliday
27-09-03, 02:55
i dont think they are dropping yet guys.....
sorry to dissappoint
ericdraven
27-09-03, 04:48
Originally posted by Doc Holliday
i dont think they are dropping yet guys.....
sorry to dissappoint
According to the loot table only the APPARTITION drops the "Strange Book" at the moment..
If it's really like this.. well.. i don't know. *shrugs*
Shadow Dancer
27-09-03, 05:04
Originally posted by ericdraven
According to the loot table only the APPARTITION drops the "Strange Book" at the moment..
If it's really like this.. well.. i don't know. *shrugs*
omg really?
I was willing to do as many runs as it takes to get the book, but uhhh if it's not dropping.....................
I would go for the apparition but I hate fighting with 3 fps. :p
ur lucky i got a ATI card that means fuXXered up graphics MEGA style for soul clusters :(
A Terminator is not a PA ....
Either way its dumbo_O
Originally posted by Ryuben
killed over 57 BQ's
10 Chaos queens
5 harbrinngers
and 0 books
The Terminator better be the Best Gun EVER... something tells me it's not worth the trouble :(
I thought the whole point of this rare was to give rifle users a rare to use while trying to get a hold of a more effective rare via tech parts and trading. Guess not.
One thing is for sure, the drop rate for this needs to be raised to at least 1/50, maybe even more. This isn't the golden gun of uber death here, its just a nice little something for people to use until they can get a hold of a Pain Easer, Ray of God, or whatever.
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