View Full Version : PPU's have it easy - rant
Alright so, on saturn i have a 65/50 ppu i'm starting to play alot
now, and it's only been like two weeks and i have 80 int, 87psi
from team exp. I would honestly say I leveled my ppu just as fast
as my tank about 6-8 months ago on pluto. Soulclusters are
useless, i find they're good for diverting people or mobs...like
the mc5 guards outside, they attack it you run by without a
scratch.
Anyway, back to why I wrote this thread :)
On the test server I also have a ppu monk who has 460HP with
expheart1 and haz3 & melee3. He's got 65atl/110AGL, so he
runs like the road runner. He has lvl3 ppu pa and holy spirit belt
and the best imps as well. The artifact Holy Paralysis and crahn
epic glove boost his rank to 89/66. Since I just made him, he uses
storebought holy shelter, sanctum and heal. I thought i'd goto
pepper park3 and do a test. Hit the copbot against the wall with
paralysis...crouch.... outheal him with my 520% stat holy heal
and 545% sanctum.
So, i said.. let's try two copbots. Outhealed them as well..then
I hit the third copbot, finally they started to hurt me.. had to run
for cover for 3 seconds to get my hp boosted back to full.
Now, as my heals and shelter isn't capped and I have no resists
other than the 30 xry from haz3, do PPU's even need to spec
once capped? I have a tanks HP and a tanks Speed, no resists
to spend hours testing and I can take on 3 copbots with storebought
spells.
So, should i spec my monk on saturn for resists? I don't think
anything higher than 25 in any ppu's resist is necessary except
poison.
This was a question/rant btw.. Also have screenshots if anyone
wants to see. :rolleyes:
FBI
Are PPU's to invulnerable....yes
Are PPU's easy to play...hell no!
If you want to know how hard it is, the next time you're in an OP battle, try healing your mates as they circle-strafe the enemy.
nonamebrandeggs
22-09-03, 21:54
So, your saying PPUs have a easy time with resists? And thats a bad thing? Spies have it pretty damned easy too IMO :rolleyes:. And PPUs have a lot of downsides that sort of balance it out, such as it's hard to make money, and with people bitching about rezzes and shelters etc... you go through a lot of boosters. :rolleyes: ;)
Eledhbrant
22-09-03, 21:55
Originally posted by Opiate
If you want to know how hard it is, the next time you're in an OP battle, try healing your mates as they circle-strafe the enemy.
Thank you.
As for the resists thing...I'm not sure, I can outheal 2 copbots, didnt try 3...if we only need 25 in any resist except poison well then Im gonna be doin some loming... :)
Originally posted by Opiate
If you want to know how hard it is, the next time you're in an OP battle, try healing your mates as they circle-strafe the enemy.
Pfff, I dont recall you ever told us to stop ;P
Yes, good PPUs are almost invincible, but playing them in their role as supporters really isnt easy. Yes, it is peace of cake to save your own ass, but that actually isnt the job of the PPU: supporting his team is, timing is and at least to try to keep an overview of the situation.
The only sad thing about is: "Let them take that OP, we don't have any PPUs online."
Originally posted by Opiate
Are PPU's to invulnerable....yes
Are PPU's easy to play...hell no!
If you want to know how hard it is, the next time you're in an OP battle, try healing your mates as they circle-strafe the enemy.
I'm an expert PPU, I know it must be hard for you to target,
I am a person of precision and dexterity with the mouse +
sensitivity.
(vettero ego clone)
I am pretty good though, i have the timing, buffs, everything
down to the second. I know how to play.
But, thanks for not answering my question.. Do capped PPUs
need to spec resists.
FBI
Originally posted by Eledhbrant
As for the resists thing...I'm not sure, I can outheal 2 copbots, didnt try 3...if we only need 25 in any resist except poison well then Im gonna be doin some loming... :)
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I don't think we need anything in
energy actually, just, poison and fire. maybe xray.
edit: bah, heard my Outlook Express charm sound thinking someone
posted, didn't mean to double post. :(
Originally posted by FBI
But, thanks for not answering my question.. Do capped PPUs
need to spec resists.
From my own experience: not really, actually all I ever needed was resist force and some poison.
Other resists are only nice if you mess up your buffs or get debuffed and for some reason (like lag spike or the spell dont want to cast so you need to switch it again) there is some small delay till your buffs are up again...actually they serve the role of some emergency buffer in such cases.
nonamebrandeggs
22-09-03, 22:00
Originally posted by FBI
edit: bah, heard my Outlook Express charm sound thinking someone
posted, didn't mean to double post. :(
Holy shit you must hear that sound a LOT.
PPU's don't need to spec resists, I even dare to say PPU's can do without armor. If you're a PPU and you're getting so much hits that your defl/shelter and a heal can't keep you alive for a few seconds, you're doing something seriously wrong.
I keep seeing PPU's in the middle of the battle and always wonder what the heck they're doing there.
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
Holy shit you must hear that sound a LOT.
Yeah junk mail mostly, and forums.
Originally posted by Opiate
PPU's don't need to spec resists, I even dare to say PPU's can do without armor. If you're a PPU and you're getting so much hits that your defl/shelter and a heal can't keep you alive for a few seconds, you're doing something seriously wrong.
I keep seeing PPU's in the middle of the battle and always wonder what the heck they're doing there.
Time to LoM on saturn, i think from playing a tank so long i over did
it with my ppu's resists. I have like 50+ xray, 40 fire but it helped
my ppu in the beginning stages, he's just starting to use holy
spells and lvl3 buffs.
FBI
Originally posted by FBI
Time to LoM on saturn, i think from playing a tank so long i over did
it with my ppu's resists. I have like 50+ xray, 40 fire but it helped
my ppu in the beginning stages, he's just starting to use holy
spells and lvl3 buffs.
déjà vu
Sounds like me and a friend of mine playing PPUs on Jupiter some time ago. The tank way. Testing resists on PPU monks as used to. The moment we had more "tank imps" in our PPUs then PSI imps we got the slight idea that maybe capping our PPUs first to get them know would be a better way to go ;-)
But resists were helpful even at the level of blessed spells, then it just doesnt matter - then it is all HP and speed with some poison.
My ppu is /49, only just has 100 psi with pa2 on, nowhere near cap on Holy Heal or on Holy Shelter. And I haven't died once in the last month. The only thing I ever have trouble with is like Ele said, healing my team mates as they circle strafe around, though I've pretty much got the hang of it now.
One thing is certain: it's a lot easier to play and fight than it is for any of my other chars, the invulnerability means I keep my cool in fights more, so I'm much more aware of the bigger picture than I am when playing my tank or PE or apu monk.
Vampire222
22-09-03, 22:20
theres a LOT more to ppu'ing than being just strong, eg antibuff, pissy teammates, that need more of your mana, spellswitching (argghh), not to mention eggs dieing all the time,
Eledhbrant
22-09-03, 22:27
Does anyone get this one?
*Middle of a huge OP fight*
*Some PE/Spy runs up to you while your trying to aim a heal*
"PC 3 plz"
ARGH
*reaches for 5 slot baseball bat*
Shadow Dancer
22-09-03, 22:31
PPus are not hard to setup, they are hard to play.
Not like I give a **** anyways.
Lucjan is right. No ppu, no dice.
Maybe one day this game will return to balance.
Originally posted by Eledhbrant
Does anyone get this one?
*Middle of a huge OP fight*
*Some PE/Spy runs up to you while your trying to aim a heal*
"PC 3 plz"
ARGH
*reaches for 5 slot baseball bat*
haha yea and it only pisses me off more when they say it repeatedly without assuming that I might actually have to equip it as if I have this 30 slot quickbelt, thats usually when i give em like psi combat or something totally unrelated, cause if theyre not gonna take the time to let me equip it, Im not gonna take the time to give a shit if i give em the right buffs anyways teamate or not...I usually 9 times out of 10 am more pissed at my own teamates at the end of a battle than i am the enemy...simply because before going into a fight I always state what needs to happen..usually something along the lines of..."yo i get like 3-5 FPS in these kinda situations, so when you want to live i suggest you not move" as its already hard enough to track and lock people but when youre playing on a shite comp its 10x harder, and usually leaves me in a position that I could possibly die because they all get careless and then Im alone to face a regiment of people pissed at me
Shadow Dancer
22-09-03, 22:45
I had several great ideas to help reduce the stress of a PPU. I was gonna post a brainport idea about it. But i'm not sure I want to help ppus out, considering they ruin PvP IMO.
Liquid_Ice
22-09-03, 22:58
Kinda off topic but..
since there are some PPUs here I have a quick quesiton.. Seeing how I am a combat spy I was just wondering do most of you prefer to just not help spies/PE in general of is it just me?? Seems like most of the OP fights I get into tanks and APUs get all the love .. Now I can see that APUs being nearly as frail as a spy need the the help constantly but tanks can absorb a shit load more damage than a spy and should be more like 3rd on the list .. Then again there is one clan out there that I have seen that does like and help their combat spies but they also were started by one...
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I had several great ideas to help reduce the stress of a PPU. I was gonna post a brainport idea about it. But i'm not sure I want to help ppus out, considering they ruin PvP IMO.
so wait now it goes from para ruining PvP to PPUs ruining PvP
btw theres MORE to neocron than PvP
I think all you people are just grand-daddies of NC been around to long and got nothing else to do but PvP...I cant fault you for that, but people like me...been playin since june and I havent quite reached that position yet like the roles PPUs play in PvM and even more so in PvP.....
Shadow Dancer
22-09-03, 23:01
Apus aren't frail as much as you think. Tanks have a bit better resists than us when we get buffed by ppu, and we can get about 460 HP with PPU buffs.
;)
Originally posted by extract
btw theres MORE to neocron than PvP
I understand that. But I love pvp and pvp is a big part of CRON.
Originally posted by Liquid_Ice
Kinda off topic but..
since there are some PPUs here I have a quick quesiton.. Seeing how I am a combat spy I was just wondering do most of you prefer to just not help spies/PE in general of is it just me?? Seems like most of the OP fights I get into tanks and APUs get all the love .. Now I can see that APUs being nearly as frail as a spy need the the help constantly but tanks can absorb a shit load more damage than a spy and should be more like 3rd on the list .. Then again there is one clan out there that I have seen that does like and help their combat spies but they also were started by one...
my main priority in combat is to protect myself first...then protect the biggest dmg dealer(usually an APU or Tank)
its just simple logic...rarely have I seen spies playing a combat role in OP wars..which is really quite sad it gets boring seeing only monks and tanks anymore =/
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I understand that. But I love pvp and pvp is a big part of CRON.
and I understand that....but can we both agree PvM plays just as big of part as PvP...so we should consider the repercussions of our actions pertaining to both fields
Shadow Dancer
22-09-03, 23:04
Originally posted by extract
and I understand that....but can we both agree PvM plays just as big of part as PvP...so we should consider the repercussions of our actions pertaining to both fields
Of course, but IMO PvM is 50x easier to balance than PeeVeePEE.
Originally posted by Liquid_Ice
...I was just wondering do most of you prefer to just not help spies/PE in general of is it just me??...
In outpost battles, spies won't usually need shelters and deflectors as they won't be in the middle of the fight. So if the number of PPUs is low, spies and PE's (PE's first) will mostly not get short buffs, unless the PPU sees time to do it.
When I played my PE a lot in OP battles, I hardly ever relied on a PPU to buff me, I always used my own buffs.
Originally posted by extract
and I understand that....but can we both agree PvM plays just as big of part as PvP...so we should consider the repercussions of our actions pertaining to both fields
I havent been hunting mobs with my main char since... mars-april maybe? With the exception of farming MC5 for a week. So no, to me PvM almost doesnt exist. If there were reasons for capped players to fight mobs then it would be a different story.
Originally posted by Liquid_Ice
Kinda off topic but..
since there are some PPUs here I have a quick quesiton.. Seeing how I am a combat spy I was just wondering do most of you prefer to just not help spies/PE in general of is it just me?? Seems like most of the OP fights I get into tanks and APUs get all the love .. Now I can see that APUs being nearly as frail as a spy need the the help constantly but tanks can absorb a shit load more damage than a spy and should be more like 3rd on the list .. Then again there is one clan out there that I have seen that does like and help their combat spies but they also were started by one...
When i ppu for a team, no matter if theres spies or not in it, i try to keep everyone buffed and give them all the same attention. A spy may have shitty defenses, but they can still do damage and to me thats a good enough reason to keep them alive.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Of course, but IMO PvM is 50x easier to balance than PeeVeePEE.
very true, but were taking this way off topic so Ill just stop there =P
Originally posted by Liquid_Ice
Kinda off topic but..
since there are some PPUs here I have a quick quesiton.. Seeing how I am a combat spy I was just wondering do most of you prefer to just not help spies/PE in general of is it just me?? Seems like most of the OP fights I get into tanks and APUs get all the love .. Now I can see that APUs being nearly as frail as a spy need the the help constantly but tanks can absorb a shit load more damage than a spy and should be more like 3rd on the list .. Then again there is one clan out there that I have seen that does like and help their combat spies but they also were started by one...
wow apus get buffs? man... which server u on? sounds like paradise....
no my apu never gets shit... all i get is a haz and a psi; shelter/def would be nice but never happens so i just run in and kill... no buffs... ever.... (no one wubs me... :()
but on the point of spies and apu frailness, it all depends on how u set it up... a shitty setup apu/spy dies fast... a well setup apu/spy is on par with pes (w/o buffs) i think...
As a PE, the only thing I ever ask for from a PPU is a haz, since he usually has it in his QB. I might as well use my own s/d and let him spend mana on the others, and I tend to be far from the main battle most of the time since PEs cant really contribute in there.
Eledhbrant
22-09-03, 23:36
Originally posted by Liquid_Ice
Kinda off topic but..
since there are some PPUs here I have a quick quesiton.. Seeing how I am a combat spy I was just wondering do most of you prefer to just not help spies/PE in general of is it just me?? Seems like most of the OP fights I get into tanks and APUs get all the love .. Now I can see that APUs being nearly as frail as a spy need the the help constantly but tanks can absorb a shit load more damage than a spy and should be more like 3rd on the list .. Then again there is one clan out there that I have seen that does like and help their combat spies but they also were started by one...
But Liquid I'm your PPU (if its you from Saturn) and I always give you primaries AND shields :D Provided you get your ass over to me like the rest of them when I holler for teh group shields :)
Originally posted by extract
and I understand that....but can we both agree PvM plays just as big of part as PvP...so we should consider the repercussions of our actions pertaining to both fields
w000t? when capped you doing mass PvM?
When you have all rares you hunting mobs to get more techs?
Get real capped player on pluto = PvP only....
And PPU + PvP = retarded
Originally posted by t0tt3
w000t? when capped you doing mass PvM?
When you have all rares you hunting mobs to get more techs?
actually yes, but Ive not capped any of my chars totally yet, but Im pretty positive that it will still be the case when they are capped....just because youve lost interest in it doesnt mean others have.....but then again I forgot this game is all about you
as requested:
Nice range:
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0015.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0018.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0019.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0022.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0023.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0024.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0027.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0033.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0035.jpg
And my spells:
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0036.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0037.jpg
http://www.satanslaw.co.uk/upload/files/@@@shot0038.jpg
The two drugs used were xray and energy bottles because i
couldnt' lom my hlt. I would go back and take screenshots without
the drugs but i don't think I need to, i'm positive actually. I didnt
think i would be posting these anyway.
FBI
As a ppu you do need to have a pretty good con setup. You need everything balanced so you can be protected against anything. And paradox, the way you have your psi setup you're gonna be weak towards certain damage types, such as fire, xray, and poison. So you need to get at least some natural resists to balance out the low fire, xray, and poison you get from your armor. You can also were a heavy belt to try and balance some of the resits. It's all up to you, but yes you do need a decent con setup if you want to last in fights.
Shadow Dancer
23-09-03, 00:37
wtf blue pa? Don't tell me apus get that lame red color. :o
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
wtf blue pa? Don't tell me apus get that lame red color. :o
I thought that all psi pa will be the same color now. I may be wrong though.
Originally posted by FBI
I have a tanks HP and a tanks Speed, no resists
to spend hours testing and I can take on 3 copbots with storebought spells.
Take on? You mean out heal their damage while you're fully buffed? I wouldn't exactly call that "PPU's having it easy". Copbots do energy damage. Go attack 3 CM guards and see how that is. I really wanna hear your opinion of how it was different at your level, (honestly). :D
IMHO, A capped PPU should have zero energy resists, because armor + buffs can take care of that. Other resists? Dunno.
nice setup, BUT it is on the testserver and mc5 chips don't come by that easely on retail
if you had a melee 3 in and the other one you mentioned how did you get the +15 int and +22 psi
Originally posted by sl33py
nice setup, BUT it is on the testserver and mc5 chips don't come by that easely on retail
if you had a melee 3 in and the other one you mentioned how did you get the +15 int and +22 psi
adv nerves 3
i dont think the mc5 chip makes a difference because the spells
arn't capped anyway. also, i think the new ppu armor change on
the TS is much better as "armor" than base resists which is why
i was able to do that.myabe.
FBI
my hybrid can still outheal 2 copbots at once :) whilst dueling a tank as the same time
Originally posted by hinch
my hybrid can still outheal 2 copbots at once :) whilst dueling a tank as the same time
Yet you'll still say hybrids are useless in PvP. :rolleyes:
theyre not for dueling :)
i just cant get involved in street brawls or any op wars and i cant act as a ppu for anyone not even a lvling n00b so unless its pre arranged or im dealing with just ppuing my self im useless
Originally posted by hinch
theyre not for dueling :)
i just cant get involved in street brawls or any op wars and i cant act as a ppu for anyone not even a lvling n00b so unless its pre arranged or im dealing with just ppuing my self im useless
If a PE can ppu for a levelling newb then I'm sure a hybrid can. Have you actually been playing as a buffed apu instead of as a hybrid? I think part of the problem with hybrids currently is that instead of playing like an apu who's lucky enough to have buffs, they're still trying to fight like they used to.
a pe gets higher % on his low lvl spells and heals considerably faster than a holy hybrid does now.
as demonstrated on cyl0ns tank on test server his tl3 tank heal heals faster than my 5 slotted holy heal :rolleyes:
Originally posted by hinch
a pe gets higher % on his low lvl spells and heals considerably faster than a holy hybrid does now.
as demonstrated on cyl0ns tank on test server his tl3 tank heal heals faster than my 5 slotted holy heal :rolleyes:
I can't believe that, but if it's true then o_O
i got a pe and a hybrid on the test server if you want a demonstration tonight i`ll show you.
Maybe, but I think it's about time I did some lomming. I have a spy who needs to hack, and I think it's time for my tank to give up his tl100 rep and tl36 rec. :(
heh my tank is keeping his rec but everything else is pure combat
im quite confused by it though cos i can take a serious beating i mean fenix and rade both use fuck loads of clips to even get me to half hp.
but i still cant fucking aim. :) just cant seem to get the hang of it at all very annoying.
Originally posted by hinch
heh my tank is keeping his rec but everything else is pure combat
im quite confused by it though cos i can take a serious beating i mean fenix and rade both use fuck loads of clips to even get me to half hp.
but i still cant fucking aim. :) just cant seem to get the hang of it at all very annoying.
The only trouble is once you're at half HP you can't heal it like a PE can.
Have you tried crouching to get the aim? It's a trick I learnt when using Lib, crouch just long enough to get the start of a burst off and then get moving again. If your problem is keeping your reticle on someone in a fight, then that just means you're not one of those uber tanks that only QD and Vet know who never ever lose their lock with CS. :p
yeap we can see fbi never really fought a lot of apus in a big clan fight.....
outhealing a mob cant really compare..
Originally posted by Scikar
The only trouble is once you're at half HP you can't heal it like a PE can.
Have you tried crouching to get the aim? It's a trick I learnt when using Lib, crouch just long enough to get the start of a burst off and then get moving again. If your problem is keeping your reticle on someone in a fight, then that just means you're not one of those uber tanks that only QD and Vet know who never ever lose their lock with CS. :p
i can keep the aim pretty much perfect for a whole clip its just the CS is soooooooo slow thats partly due to me still not being capped but also the quality of cs and me just not being used to it.
i started a pure apu again last night on saturn played him for like 10 mins or so think im 15/20 now or something.
monks are so much easier to aim with than smurfs like 1000x easier.
but at least smurfs dont die quite so quick :rolleyes:
hinch, you supposed to say "Give me aiming on my APU, then when I start playing tank again I will handle that circle thingy" :D
naah monk aiming > * dont want a stupid little circle thingie it`ll just ruin monks even more
I quite like the idea of a reticle where the spell still hits like it does now, but the damage is based on how closed the reticle is. At fully the open the damage would be like 50%, and maybe have a bonus for closing it fully.
surely at that though the apu would loose the benefit of their speed the whole benefit to them atm is they can run around like a headless chicken spamming hl all over the place.
if they had to wait for recticle to close they may as well be a turret for the 3 seconds they`d last before dying.
Beats random damage though. :)
random damage has to be a bug of some kind
something as major as that not mentioned in patch notes i has to be never been tested or anything just put in
Originally posted by hinch
random damage has to be a bug of some kind
something as major as that not mentioned in patch notes i has to be never been tested or anything just put in
It was in the patch notes. Just it was only in the german notes and not in the english.
that`ll teach me not to read teh german notes then
stll random damage is so very very gay
Originally posted by deac
yeap we can see fbi never really fought a lot of apus in a big clan fight.....
outhealing a mob cant really compare..
How can i fight APU's as a PPU? I have been in big clan wars
actually and I do quite good. But where does your stupid remark
come from? How random, you don't me or my char ppu on saturn.
Closing thread as my question was answered.
FBI
SamuraiPizzaCat
23-09-03, 16:02
erm FBI the DS is kinda hard to come by on Retail and the PPW bonus change isnt here either.....
Closed at thread starter's request.
N
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