kamikaze drones..what happened

[dmon99]

i can remember when these things were feared in op battles. but now a capped damage kk drone is laughed off by most tanks

hell when i was of high enough lvl to start hitting op's with friends

i remember a kk drone taking off 2/3 of my health with one pop

now that im playing the droner, i hit a near capped tank with one, and it did maybe 120 dmage to him .come on give these lil' boogers some thing to be used for,besides killing << 27/27 aggies in one shot, and scaring noobs. kk400's should do like 2000 force/fir damage or maybe 3000

[GurTjaN]

theyre gonna bring the drones back soon hope theyll do somethign bout the kami drones too would be cool

[Darkborg]

i believe i have heard something about a rare kamidrone. i cant quite remember where though.

[Oath]

test server notes,

havent seen it yet though.
Supposed to b ubar.

[dmon99]

i seen that punisher drone up close ................ O.o


thats a big freakin drone hope the rare kami drone aint like that but if it is hope its really fast

[GurTjaN]

rare kami drone huh ?

cant be build from rare parts thought that would take 5 parts every time u use one :S kinda weird but u mean like in punisher and nemesis

rare drones tha can be bped

[Omnituens]

i remeber Omen taking out BruteForce with just 1 of them.

*points and laughs at brute*

the rare one should be fun.

[JiNxY]

the rare is called the revenge, built from rare parts and can be BP'ed, problem is its TL93

hence another HUGE timesink for droners (yes kk we would actually like to play and not just have to make our weapons all day)

i personally havent tried it on the test server as i had enough problems installing neocron let alone tying the test server stuff.

apparently it goes really fast and in the last patch notes its dmg was boosted a tiny bit (probably no where near enough tbh)

only thing is, whats the point in it going faster when theyre hard as fuck to steer anyway. the only key worth pressing is the forward key, its a 1 attempt, 1 click wonder. and a big waste time and effort which i dont see being used at all. except for camping UG's

[Scikar]

Kami drones do one shot people when used properly, i.e. hitting the head.

[JiNxY]

no they dont

full stop, you cant even argue they can

[Scikar]

Originally posted by JiNxY
no they dont

full stop, you cant even argue they can

Yes they do - check with ReefSmoker.

EDIT: Posted here. (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74722)


Originally posted by ReefSmoker
I can appreciate that some people don't want spies to be able to kill PPU monks, but it's time to let the cat out of the bag. I was sitting on this baby for months because when I first discovered it, I was able to kill people in one hit with kk-400 drones, and because of a bug, I didn't get SL or faction sympathy loss. So like a good boy I reported it, and reported it, and reported it, and eventually 4 months later they fixed the bug.

Basically the only trick to it is to lodge the drone in the target's head before detonation, I tend to find flying the drone at head height and with a horizontal flight path has the best chances for success. So far this has only failed in Neofrag where there's some sort of laggy glitch but in the wastelands it has never failed me.

Makes you wonder what on earth spies are gonna be able to do with the new kamikaze drone, wipe out half a clan ???

Take care,

ReefSmoker

[JiNxY]

ive tested this in neofrag and outside and its never happened ever.

infact quite a few patches ago hitting somebody inside their head didnt do any damage at all really (about 12 to an unbuffed monk)

besides even if this was possible, your trying to tell me scikar, that you can hit somebody center of their head when theyre running?? i dont think so.

so dmon, ignore the past few posts by scikar and myself as they are meaningless tbh.

you CANT 1 hit kill ANYBODY.

and to reef i never replied to your original posts because i personally had tested this and had opposite effects to those you said, so didnt want to sound like i was sayin u werent telling the truth, as you have no reason to lie... but its never happened to me. also done tests recently and it does do more damage, but never 1 hit kills, so yeh, kamis are crap

[Heraclitus]

IMO Kami drones should not be 1-hit kills (maybe the rare ones should but that's not important right now). The KK400 should maybe take 2/3-3/4 of a capped spy and maybe 1/2 a capped tank. There needs to be some strategy involved is what I'm saying. Basically you harass the enemy with a PB-20 or PN or whatever then drop it at the right time. When they go to steal the drone pop them in the back with the kami, game over.

[cobrajay157]

I dunno what u r talking about, but u can take a full buffed apu down with one kami :lol:

[JiNxY]

if you can get them that low with a PN then just keep shooting and kill them. also dropping the drone, then getting a kami in the air, then getting it too the runners position, before they have relocated/healed is not viable.

heres a post by ehyuko about the matter.


I doubt the Revenge will do 1 shot kills, making it as useless as the rest of the KK series of drones.

Since it's been a while here's:

Ehyuko's Monthly Drone Rant

Reasons why KK's are useless:


1) Low damage output

Admittedly they do more damage then ONE burst from any other weapon, but if 2 bursts from a PN can outdamage a kk hitting dead on then what's the point of having a drone that can fire once and takes between 10-30 seconds to fire again [factoring in drawing, waiting to fire, and travel time to the target], when I can use another drone which can fire ~ 60 times and does 75% of the damage of the KK each shot?


2) No one hit kills

Seems to be coded in BUT doesn't apply to burst weapons as they fire 2-4 shots and thus CAN kill in 1 burst [damage for each hit is calculated seperately]. Again, what is the point of using a weapon that can fire 1 shot and is destroyed when nothing can be killed in 1 hit?


3) Damage type

Force/piercing + fire, makes sense from a 'realism' point of view, but these are also 2 of the most common and EASY to aquire resists in the game. While monks are weak to force damage in general, any good monk either uses a medium/heavy fire belt and has loads of fire resist, as their armour covers their energy resist completely, poison is almost useless leaving them with only 2 resists they have to aquire [both partly covered by armour, ONE able to be left low for a hazard/heat booster to make up for].

That aside, a holy deflector and/or holy shelter means the damage a kk puts out is drasticly reduced. Here's an example:

Testing KK rush attacks

monk w/o shelter/deflector

60 dmg - KK400
45 dmg - PN

monk WITH shelter/deflector

20 dmg - KK400
21 dmg - PN

Considering the monk in question had ~ 400 health, the very idea of using a KK against the seemingly very target they are meant to destroy shows how useless they are.

Don't forget, the PN can fire a burst every 3-4 seconds, the KK400 is destroyed and has a RoF of about 30 seconds with travel time factored in or 5-10 seconds at POINT BLANK range.


4) KK is destroyed when it is fired once

Should be self explanatory, a KK weighs as much as a cannon, costs about 2k for each shot [cost of weapon parts, not factoring in finding a researcher, constructor or paying for either lube].


5) KK groups are unviable

Besides lag, besides incorrect position display, besides the fact drone positions are ~ 1-2 seconds BEHIND where the droner percieves them, a KK has very weak armour and almost no health. KK's [and drones in general] are EXCEPTIONS to the 1 hit kill rule, you CAN kill drones in 1 hit if you can put out enough damage, since the KK is an AoE effect drone and cannot kill in one hit, most people would assume that a group of kk's would be something to be feared - unfortunately KK's easily destroy each other, sending a group of KK's to attack a target means each has to be outside of the detonation area of any single KK [giving the enemy lots of time to run/hide/shoot the other KK's]. This leaves a group of KK's hovering nearby which MUST be formed up so they can each start their attack run quickly, they must form up so they can fly directly to their target and be able to estimate the travel time and AoE of the previous KK [remember KK's must actually touch their targets head to deliver full damage - the 60 in the earlier example].


6) KK drones have a exponential reduction in damage as distance from the center of the blast increases

Meaning if a KK is detonated 1 second to early/late or there is any lag OR the position of players is not 100% accurate, a person being rammed by a KK will take 50% or less damage, remember each shot costs 2k+timesinks [building] plus 30 seconds between each shot.

[JiNxY]

and to you guys saying, i can do this, i can do that, im a god with drones... do you think your helping get us balanced??

fair enough weve all killed some people with this drone or that, who cares?? people see these posts and think jesus, if drones can do that they dont need any balancing issues addressed.

HOW many times have you done that? once? twice? its hardly an every day thing.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by JiNxY
if you can get them that low with a PN then just keep shooting and kill them. also dropping the drone, then getting a kami in the air, then getting it too the runners position, before they have relocated/healed is not viable.


I see your point. Maybe the reverse order makes more sense (ie soften them with the kami then finish with PN or PB20). Either way I agree kami drones need a damage boost to be useful. But there needs to be a limiting factor if they are boosted to the 1-shot kill range. It would be the only 1-shot kill weapon in the game and it couldn't be allowed to go unchecked.

[JiNxY]

yeh i agree Heraclitus :) a 1 shot kill will probably never be implemented, ive seen screenshots of the type of damage a revenge does, its decent enough, and if your working with other people probably viable.

i may be rerolling my lovely droner soon anyway, ive found im getting more angry than i used to when something bad happens lol, and thats not getting enjoyment from the game, im sure my clan have noticed my reduced appearances, and im sorry :p . i just havent got the balls to re-roll him yet, so hes getting a rest at the mo :)

[Scikar]

OK I'll put it another way.


Positives:

A PN is lethal against a tank. Tanks can't hit drones, and still take a fair amount of damage due to the lack of their own shelter.

A PN is also effective against a PE.

A PN is about equal against an apu IMO, they might die in 2 hits from HL but they are still difficult to hit, and the apu doesn't exactly last very long.

Being able to hide is a tremendous advantage, even if there isn't much terrain a droner can often hide in the hack room of an OP when defending while the others defend the entrances.


Problems:

A PN can't damage a ppu at all, and ppu buffs applied to any class severely reduce the damage output.

A PN isn't much good against a spy since drones have no counter to stealth.

The large number of monks atm, especially ppus, coupled with more and more spies, and the lack of tanks, mean that droners are facing up against the two main classes that they can't damage, while also facing the biggest threat to their drones.


Therefore:

Drones need a minor damage boost, but also damage types need to be considered.

Drones should be able to see cloaked runners, making them a much better counter to stealthed spies than True Sight sanctum, and makes droners a bit more worthwhile in an OP war. Also a sniper spy is a lot less likely to be ppu buffed which means droners will have a real target.

[Shadow Dancer]

erm, doesn't everyone have the "can't damage ppus" problem?

[Scikar]

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
erm, doesn't everyone have the "can't damage ppus" problem?

Yeah but everyone else has at least an attempt a way around it. PEs have damage boost, apus have antibuff, spies have SH, tanks still have tl3 heal.

None of them are really effective, but they're still more than a droner has - absolutely nothing.