View Full Version : PPU nerf/balence idea
Post anything you like but please give reasons, also dont change this into a ppu offence thread thats not what its about ;)
hey wake up and go back to patch 186
they already "nerfed" PPU sheilds by making them only 50% as effective when cast on others....youre making a poll about something thats already been done....and well selfcast is hmmm how to put this nicely....retarded....whats the point of a PPU if he can only protect himself...doesnt make much sense to keep a PPU in the game if thats done
pretty horrible thought out idea....do research and use common sense next time please
Make Shelter and Deflector Area weapons
*PvM=better (stops ppu's complaining anyway)
*PvP=better (you couldn't buff one without buffing the other without tactics)
its not a horrible idea at all, ppus can still health/weapon buff and heal + ppu sheilds are still too powerful about the same as a capped blessed equivilant and i knew about patch 186.
im not jsut talking about ppu sheild im talking about all sheilds
This is an horrible idea imo... ppu's wouldnt be able to support their teams properly.. the solution is not attacking the role of ppu's, but those parts that unbalance the game.
PPU's should be easy killable, as any other class, but they should be able to reward their teams with heals, buffs, shields, etc...
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 20:03
First shouldn't we agree on what is the unbalanced part?
Personally to me it's the fact that they are so f*ing needed and they have such a tremendous impact on PvP.
"hey guys wanna go take dark's op? W00t let's rock. I'm up for it. Ok kramer u game? scikar? slewer? QD? woot. Now all we need is a ppu. Oh.........we don't have one? He's offline? Shoot. no op war then"
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
How irritating.
We need a ppu because the enemy team will have a ppu.
We cannot kill the enemy team while the ppu is alive
We cannot kill the ppu if we dont have another ppu.
Make the ppu killable, and we wont need a ppu.
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 20:22
Originally posted by Sleawer
We need a ppu because the enemy team will have a ppu.
We cannot kill the enemy team while the ppu is alive
We cannot kill the ppu if we dont have another ppu.
Make the ppu killable, and we wont need a ppu.
I totally agree.
Originally posted by Sleawer
We need a ppu because the enemy team will have a ppu.
We cannot kill the enemy team while the ppu is alive
We cannot kill the ppu if we dont have another ppu.
Make the ppu killable, and we wont need a ppu.
thats total bullshit....thats just brainwashing is what that is...PPUs are in fact killable....and you dont need another PPU to do it...(altho it would be nice, PPUs are NOT the only class who can use DB)...if that in fact is what youre reffering too.....
hey but whos fault is it???? youre every single effin one of you...why are there so many PPUs around these days??? well no shit you cried about hybrids....its never going to stop...all you crybaby whiners who want this and that nerfed(changed) and the majority of the time its the same people always bitching
in a way I hope to god KK and people dont read this board...and I hope even more that they dont actually consider any of this stuff its getting tired...first it was get rid of para...now today its get rid of PPUs whole reason for existence...while youre at it please take away ammo and psi boosters...and replace all our weapons with tissues
Originally posted by Sleawer
We need a ppu because the enemy team will have a ppu.
We cannot kill the enemy team while the ppu is alive
We cannot kill the ppu if we dont have another ppu.
Make the ppu killable, and we wont need a ppu.
Precisely. The best idea is to make it APUs and Hybrids rather than APUs and PPUs. This way they don't have uber defense or offense (making them killable but no whinge about not being able to kill) and would leave APUs the uber damage dealers with no defensive powers of their own.
Originally posted by Sleawer
We need a ppu because the enemy team will have a ppu.It makes sense to me if the enemy has a ppu you're gonna need one. They keep people alive.
We cannot kill the enemy team while the ppu is aliveYou should stop complaining about stuff being unbalanced and get some skills. Everyone is killable even with a ppu.
We cannot kill the ppu if we dont have another ppu.
Once again, get some skills.
Make the ppu killable, and we wont need a ppu. Smartest thing you've said. If you get rid of ppus defenses they'll be useless.
Originally posted by petek480
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We need a ppu because the enemy team will have a ppu.
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It makes sense to me if the enemy has a ppu you're gonna need one. They keep people alive.
Let me guess... if the enemy has a tank, do you need a tank?
If the enemy has a spy.. do you need a spy?
If the enemy has an apu.. do you need another apu?
Then why you need a ppu if the enemy has one?
Unbalance.
Originally posted by petek480
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We cannot kill the enemy team while the ppu is alive
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You should stop complaining about stuff being unbalanced and get some skills. Everyone is killable even with a ppu.
Would be your uber skills enought to kill my apu if I am teamed with my ppu? how many people would you need? Now imagine this in a big scale.. a team with various ppu's and various tanks and apu's...
Add what you want to your team except ppu's.. convince me that you can beat it.
I can wish you good luck in advance... if you dont have another ppu to counter the parashocks or damage boosts over yourself, and get the same shielding/healing power as I get with my apu.. you are completely toast.
Either you have an army against +ppu or you need another ppu... or a big load of luck lol
[i]Originally posted by petek480
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We cannot kill the ppu if we dont have another ppu.
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Once again, get some skills.
Once again, come with a valid argument.
The ppu can shock and damage boost the opponent, aswell as healing, shielding buffing his team.
No other class can do this effectively, so without a ppu you start with the disadvantage of the great support role that the other team has. This is agravated when the ppu becomes unkillable by normal means.
If you dont have another ppu to counter this, I'm afraid you need a proportion of 10vs1 to kill the enemy team... and even with this, probably the ppu will leave alive due not being able to rezz his mates.
But what do you know.. you are a ppu, you haven't bothered to think in what would be a team without you.
Originally posted by petek480
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Make the ppu killable, and we wont need a ppu.
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Smartest thing you've said. If you get rid of ppus defenses they'll be useless.
Wrong.
The ppu usefullness is not surviving entire clans, but supporting his team in the best way possible, while the team in return protects his life.
YOU and your ideas of reducing the power of shields in others, is what will render ppu's to the uselesness.
Just because YOU dont want to be killed.
Maybe you should change the class, seems that you dont like to support others, but to have uber 1337 invincibility.
@extract, try again without flames, and give some good reasoning.. then maybe I will bother to reply your post.
Originally posted by Sleawer
@extract, try again without flames, and give some good reasoning.. then maybe I will bother to reply your post.
LOL you honestly thought my post was flames? you need to take off the nail polish FO REAL
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 22:53
Originally posted by extract
thats total bullshit....thats just brainwashing is what that is...PPUs are in fact killable....and you dont need another PPU to do it...(altho it would be nice, PPUs are NOT the only class who can use DB)...if that in fact is what youre reffering too.....
PPus aren't "realisticly" killable without an apu unless the ppu sucks ass. Stop using BAD ppus as your arguement.
Originally posted by extract
hey but whos fault is it???? youre every single effin one of you...why are there so many PPUs around these days??? well no shit you cried about hybrids....its never going to stop...all you crybaby whiners who want this and that nerfed(changed) and the majority of the time its the same people always bitching
Hybirds WERE overpowered. Anyone and everyone could see that. No one ask for them destroyed, the hybrids themselves are the ones to blame for being destoryed. Instead of coming here and putting constructive input, they just IGNORE any problems with their class(like you're doing) and say there's no problem. Fine then, BAM, kk wiped them out. All of the hbyrids could have written threads, methods of balance, etc... but all they did was complain about how they werent' overpowered at all, and it was no big deal to take 3-4 tanks out at the same time :rolleyes:
Originally posted by petek480
It makes sense to me if the enemy has a ppu you're gonna need one. They keep people alive.
Yea, well that's the problem then. I guess we just disagree then. You think it's ok for it to be that way, I don't.
Originally posted by petek480
You should stop complaining about stuff being unbalanced and get some skills. Everyone is killable even with a ppu.
Not if you don't have a ppu. And you know that's true pete. The imbalance is needing ppus to such an extraordinary extent.
Originally posted by petek480
Once again, get some skills.
Above.
Originally posted by petek480
Smartest thing you've said. If you get rid of ppus defenses they'll be useless.
Make them killable=get rid of their defenses?
Do you believe making them killable will make them useless?
@extract, I keep missing what are you trying to say... maybe you dont know what are you saying either, not sure but.. perhaps you should try to stay on topic for once.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
PPus aren't "realisticly" killable without an apu unless the ppu sucks ass. Stop using BAD ppus as your arguement.
dont give me that shit, you do it just as much as me...but to the oppistie extreme....every arguement in here isnt about averages in reality is it? probably not...so give me a break
Originally posted by Sleawer
[B]@extract, I keep missing what are you trying to say... maybe you dont know what are you saying either, not sure but.. perhaps you should try to stay on topic for once.
like you just did? okie dokie
Why is it so hard to understand that a ppu role is the role of a medic. They are suppose to keep there team alive. If you have a ppu and the other team doesn't you're gonna win. It's always gonna be like that. Unless ppu defenses are removed, becasue all you have to do then is shoot the ppu 2 or 3 times and he'll drop.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Not if you don't have a ppu. And you know that's true pete. The imbalance is needing ppus to such an extraordinary extent.
Yes, you do need an ppu to win against someone that has a ppu otherwise you're not gonna have anyone to keep you alive. And the reason ppus are needed so much is because there the only class that can keep people alive. So instead of making the role of ppus useless so you can pwn with your apus(yes i'm talking about you shadow), you should try to think of ways to make other classes roles more important.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Not if you don't have a ppu. And you know that's true pete. The imbalance is needing ppus to such an extraordinary extent.
easy fix....find someone to PPU for you....its not theyre fault they have a PPU and you dont
Shadow Dancer
21-09-03, 00:51
Originally posted by extract
dont give me that shit, you do it just as much as me...but to the oppistie extreme....every arguement in here isnt about averages in reality is it? probably not...so give me a break
I don't do it.
If I based my thoughts on ppus on the BEST ones only, i would be alot more harsh towards the class, trust me.
You just love grasping at straws.
Originally posted by petek480
Why is it so hard to understand that a ppu role is the role of a medic.
I'm starting to think that you dont' listen to ANYONE pete. Or you purposefully "misunderstand" what people are saying.
NO ONE is disagreeing that the ppu's role is medic. What some people are disagreeing with is the medic role also having near invincibility.
Originally posted by petek480
If you have a ppu and the other team doesn't you're gonna win. It's always gonna be like that.
Ok then. That's the crux of the arguement. Personally I don't think it should be that way.
Originally posted by petek480
Yes, you do need an ppu to win against someone that has a ppu otherwise you're not gonna have anyone to keep you alive.
WTF, see what I mean. Slewer was takling about not needing a ppu to kill someone who has a ppu. Then you told him to get some skill, then now you're saying you do need a ppu to win against someone who has a ppu, it looks like you're arguing for the sake of arguement.
Originally posted by petek480
So instead of making the role of ppus useless so you can pwn with your apus(yes i'm talking about you shadow),
Why can't you just leave silly comments like this out of it? DO you see me saying "Omg extract you just wanna be TEH UBERNESS and never die". NO!
It's not about my apus pwning, it's about being able to fuckin pvp without needing a damn ppu.
Originally posted by petek480
you should try to think of ways to make other classes roles more important.
I already do, and I always do. Hence my multiple threads about trying to find support roles for other classes, but that's not what THIS thread is about. Hybrids were overpowered, and people always said "ffs boost other classes" but they ignore any and all problems with the hybrid.
Originally posted by extract
easy fix....find someone to PPU for you....its not theyre fault they have a PPU and you dont
:rolleyes:
Well Pete, I have played a fair ammount of games where different classes had that role.. but in no one it was essential.
Saying that of your class, besides showing being totally in denial about it, just makes me think that you want to be the most important class in the game... and the balance, the other classes, just spin around you and your roles.
To me that's a flaw; if you cannot see it then you have a serious problem of understanding.
@extract, hey dude, how's going there in the centre of the universe? have you had a plenty day looking at your own navel?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I don't do it.
If I based my thoughts on ppus on the BEST ones only, i would be alot more harsh towards the class, trust me.
You just love grasping at straws.
:rolleyes:
but you really are...I mean with all these million odd posts and whatnot about parashock being used as an offensive spell...obviously a bad PPU isnt gonna go around shooting people with para trying to kill them :P....hows that for a reach?
actually man Im not really bothered by any ideas on this board...but some are just plain stupid....90% of you are basing youre opinions on things that go on in other games...well *NEWS FLASH* this is neocron, NOT other games....just because some class in another game has a support role like the PPU but it is not as essential a class in neocron makes neocrons PPUs a flaw it merely makes the game unique...I dont play many games other than neocron....which is why alot of my posts are biased, but that doesnt mean Im wrong and it doesnt mean youre right, its just a difference of opinion is all...right now I wouldnt say this game is unbalanced by any means...its just lack of character classes and setups that make people try out new things(like combat spies for instance) and then people cry when a spy can take fuck all for damage....each class has its ups and downs...and there isnt any problem with that....sure para blows big fat dong, but its tolerable, and the only people who seem to be overly affected by it are the people who sit on this board all day and dont play...hows that for irony
Originally posted by Sleawer
Well Pete, I have played a fair ammount of games where different classes had that role.. but in no one it was essential.
you are a PRIME example of my above reply
Originally posted by Sleawer
@extract, hey dude, how's going there in the centre of the universe? have you had a plenty day looking at your own navel?
Im sooo sad now boo-fuckin-hoo
Originally posted by Sleawer
PPU's should be easy killable
It's because of statements like that why i'm here argueing with you. I've played a ppu for some time now. I know what ppus can do. Ppu are not invincible, if you have a team that knows what there doing you can kill any ppu. Besides, most ppus aren't that hard to kill. And making ppus defenses only castable on ohter people would make them totally useless. They'll die just as fast as apus and there is nothing any team can do to stop the enemies from taking out the ppus, which would be pretty damn easy.
extract always making conclusions from the peripheral aspects of the sentences... everything but not staying in the actual topic. Bad attitude if you want to explain "anything".
The medic class has to seek balance between its support role, i.e. importance in each situation, and the impact in scene of PvP/PvM wise.
That's what I meant with the medic role in other games.. not to look to other games, but to realize that essential roles are not in favour of balance; unless you play single player games, in which case the balance doesnt exist at all.
Flash news for you, Neocron is a mmorpg, meaning that you are not alone in this world, and while team play is rewarding, and sometimes required, the classes which are part of the team have to be in some kind balance, with not essential roles to the success of it, and without any overimportance respect the others.. specially not in the main goals of the game, like it is the OP warfare.
Look at it from the point of view that you most like, but there is no justification for the imbalance caused by ppu's... even if they are the main medic class.
Which leads me to wonder if the only medics in the future are psionics... sounds kinda silly.
So sharing the roles, and creating the true field medic for that job (implanter?).. keeping the importance of PSI, but in a lesser degree.. would be the first step of a serie of mayor changes needed in this game.
First Pete, try to quote me properly, not 5 words of my posts, which in fact are quite long. Do that if you want to have any credit to me.
That is also the reason because you seem to be in denial. I provided along these forums more than fair options to solve the problems that you mention.. I am aware of the imposibility to fullfill that role with the current system; that's why changes are needed, big changes.
And that's also one of the reasons of my lost of hopes in this game. Maybe is too late for such big changes.
Again repeating myself; do not mistake terms.. the usefulness of ppu's do not reside in their superior defences, but in the supporting role towards their team.
The fact is that two teams with equal members, and same diversity of classes, cannot compete against a team with less diversity, and more ammount of ppu's.
In these days, the game has turned into a mix of defence/firepower balance.. wich leaves other classes than monks with no role into it, aside duels or few selected situations.
Boost the role of other classes? Yes, but let's look into the problems of certain unbalanced class.
I am a monk, and I tell you that monks are not balanced. Not their concept, nor their role.
Shadow Dancer
21-09-03, 02:01
Originally posted by extract
but you really are...I mean with all these million odd posts and whatnot about parashock being used as an offensive spell...obviously a bad PPU isnt gonna go around shooting people with para trying to kill them :P....hows that for a reach?
What?
I don't even understand your point there.
Originally posted by extract
90% of you are basing youre opinions on things that go on in other games...
Not me. The only time I do that is when the other person does it first, like when they say "you know in other games the cleric class" blah blah.
Originally posted by extract
I dont play many games other than neocron....which is why alot of my posts are biased,
What does not playing other games have to do with your post being biased?
Hell other games are irrelevant, only neocron is relevant.
Originally posted by extract
but its tolerable, and the only people who seem to be overly affected by it are the people who sit on this board all day and dont play...hows that for irony
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by petek480
It's because of statements like that why i'm here argueing with you. I've played a ppu for some time now. I know what ppus can do. Ppu are not invincible, if you have a team that knows what there doing you can kill any ppu. Besides, most ppus aren't that hard to kill. And making ppus defenses only castable on ohter people would make them totally useless.
You told me in-game that you thought anti spells were balanced because without them ppus would be unkillable.
Let me ask you something, in your opinion do you think the PPU is "realisticly" killable without an apu?
Originally posted by Sleawer
extract always making conclusions from the peripheral aspects of the sentences... everything but not staying in the actual topic. Bad attitude if you want to explain "anything".
Yup, I was starting to think the same thing.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Flash news for you, Neocron is a mmorpg, meaning that you are not alone in this world, and while team play is rewarding, and sometimes required, the classes which are part of the team have to be in some kind balance, with not essential roles to the success of it, and without any overimportance respect the others.. specially not in the main goals of the game, like it is the OP warfare.
EXACTLY!
Originally posted by Sleawer
Which leads me to wonder if the only medics in the future are psionics... sounds kinda silly.
hehe
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
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Originally posted by petek480
It's because of statements like that why i'm here argueing with you. I've played a ppu for some time now. I know what ppus can do. Ppu are not invincible, if you have a team that knows what there doing you can kill any ppu. Besides, most ppus aren't that hard to kill. And making ppus defenses only castable on ohter people would make them totally useless.
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You told me in-game that you thought anti spells were balanced because without them ppus would be unkillable.
Let me ask you something, in your opinion do you think the PPU is "realisticly" killable without an apu?
Heh, well I was about to point at this statement aswell. I dont know exactly from what post he took that sentence, I write too much, but sticking at it...
...I would remark the word should be "easy" killable. Which at the moment is far from being the truth.
Of course ppu monks can be killed, everyone can be killed in this game, otherwise the game would crash when one happens to die.
I hope you understand (dont mean agree) what I try to explain here now... together with the previous posts of course.
Originally posted by Sleawer
First Pete, try to quote me properly, not 5 words of my posts, which in fact are quite long. Do that if you want to have any credit to me.
Who cares if i posted it all or not. It wouldn't of mattered, if you want i'll go edit it and put in the whole statement.
JackScratch
21-09-03, 02:29
This is amasing. Instead of learning how to play, just badger the devs on the forum till they change the game to favor you. It's awe inspireing. Why do you asshole even bother playing NC? Every damn time they change this game I have to take a month to figure it the fuck out. and why? because a bunch of minors have nothing better to do than complain about a game they play day and night, till you have to play it day and night to be worth while. Gosh, I wonder why DoY isnt out yet. What could posibly be keeping the devs so busy they dont have time to finish it? Hmmm, I wonder.
I care, and as you quote me it should be important.
Just try the next time to quote enought of my post to give sense to my words.
If from a bigger explanation, the ones that I try to post, you take away 5 words, not only the sentence will lose most of its sense, but also the answer will be senseless.
This has been.. a little off topic.
*sigh* how many times are we gonna have to see these threads started. Every few days another one pops up with shadow tryin to get ppu's taken out of the game nerfed or somethin else. Then we see pete come to defend them its the same thing every time the thread comes up so why not go ahead and argue all you want in this one and get over with so we dont have to see it again in a few days.
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