View Full Version : Make Rare's BP'able...
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 06:16
Put's on titain armor..
Ok, simple idea, make all rare's BP'able, and constable from normal parts, just like rare drones.. Following normal weapon stat capping rules for a weapon of their TL..
This would reduce the need for everyone to hunt down rareparts and make rare's out of rareparts, also would shorten the PvP gap's as rare user's would still have an edge but the copy's would be near the level so could stand a chance..
Also, only the original's would keep the swirly's and the copys would have diffrent names, so people could easly tell them appart, maybe Exp plasma cannon for the CS copy's..
Pro's, not having a rare would not cripple your PvP char..
Con's, rare type weapons would be more common...
maybe make the knockoff's heavyer and such other little things so they are not as good as proper rares..
QuantumDelta
20-09-03, 06:18
.....Can I get a hell yes......
errrrr I read that a little more....
I'm thinking it might be better if the rare items get blue printed and constructed just like PN/etc... for the drones.....they come out at lower stats but keep all other details....
...btw....nice poll
but...
YOU MISSED THE ISWDA Option.....! j00 r teh k0s now...o_O
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 06:22
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
YOU MISSED THE ISWDA Option.....! j00 r teh k0s now...o_O
I also missed the No option..
Let me point out, I already said, they'd follow normal (AKA, non rare) build rules for item's of their TL so lower quality cap and such, just like the PN..
So basically tech parts would still drop, but if you BP a weapon like the CS it would come out a quality cap like 86%. Then you can mod it but it wouldn't be as good as constructing tech parts into rares. I would love for them to add something like this. A 5 slot CS would be probably as equal to a 1 slot CS so it wouldn't be an overpowered feature.
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 06:33
YES!
im gunna assume the second yes is a NO then?
personally i see nothing wrong with the rare system atm, i like the drop rate, i like the trading of parts, i like the time it takes, and i like the satisfaction when you get a nice weapon at the end.
maybe im just biased cos i hate the timesink this causes for droners.. but you guys would only need to do like 30 for an uber everlasting weapon supply.
yes it would remove this, "i need a rare to be any good"
but come on, its something to aim towards!! yes your not going to be the best without a rare, but it gives you something to strive for... maybe there is something to do other than op fights when your near capped??? the more you put into the game the more you get out IMO
a rare with worse stats is no better than using the next weapon lower down surely?
wtf lol.
if u can bp a rare its not a fuckin rare!
just my opinion.
the whole point of rares and rare parts is that it adds content to the game. take away the whole point of hunting for rares and you take away game content. i vote against this.
you make this game easier than it already is and that = boring which = more ppl leave which = less money for KK
i say add more types of rares. that way we dont have all these tech tanks running around with a cs... make a diffrent cannon just as good as the cs but a diffrent name and model. all these apu's with holy lightning.. hell make a spell that summons a hellspawn or something. something that rises from the earth... like a throny root or something that causes HL damage. Make a spell that summons a meteorite on your ass or something. This would be similar to summoning a lightning bolt in HL.
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 06:37
Originally posted by JiNxY
im gunna assume the second yes is a NO then?
your assume wrong..
I put both as yes so if you want to vote no, you have to abstain and thus I win...
simple point is there's always one person, who for no reason that will be sorted wants none of it, and then later, when feature's like they asked for get put in, go and say "I want X, I know I ovted no before, but that's because I wanted somthing else now, now I want this"
so Your vote's also yes, the only way to vote no, is not to vote.
Webshock... the point to hunting rare's would be, since the EXP weapons (this is now what I'll be calling BP built rares) would have lower quality cap, and as such would not be as good as trule rare's...
this idea is for PvP ballence, as some people suggested idea's for store bought weapons that could be BP'ed of the smae TL as rare's, so I nicked their idea, and changed it to fit in with the rare drones method, which means you still need to have a BP of the rare and can't just go out and buy one from a shop NPC but you must find a player willing to sell you the BP which also means you collect a full rare and BP it, and then it's a good money grubber selling the BP's of it..
simple plan, fit's in with what we have, and rare's would still be special because of the name a swirly at the end.
Originally posted by WebShock
wtf lol.
if u can bp a rare its not a fuckin rare!
just my opinion.
the whole point of rares and rare parts is that it adds content to the game. take away the whole point of hunting for rares and you take away game content. i vote against this.
you make this game easier than it already is and that = boring which = more ppl leave which = less money for KK
i say add more types of rares. that way we dont have all these tech tanks running around with a cs... make a diffrent cannon just as good as the cs but a diffrent name and model. all these apu's with holy lightning.. hell make a spell that summons a hellspawn or something. something that rises from the earth... like a throny root or something that causes HL damage. Make a spell that summons a meteorite on your ass or something. This would be similar to summoning a lightning bolt in HL. [edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming]
the poll will be changed by a mod no doubt, i dont want this because its a bad idea, ive stated why...
there is no need to say im only thinking of myself, when this is a place to voice OPINIONS.. omg having my own veiw?!?!?
thats not allowed!!!
it seems you describe yourself in your above post.
but you just cant see it...
Q`alooaith by any chance are you
getting tired? I get all weird and
start doing weird things when i
am tired.
It would take away game content,
so no. In my opinion rares should
be impossible to slot, and a rare
weapon should only be slightly
better than a 5 slot of the previous
weapon with 120/120 stats and a
Mod. When you get the weapon
made the type of Damage is
random, not the amount of slots.
Benjie>Q`alooaith
HahAhahAhahAhaHA
(Okay I am tired too)
Yes lets make slots on what were previously known as non-rares totally pointless and the best weapons as easy to get as medkits.
Lets also start with capped characters.
I know, we could also just hand out epic items for free! There is a fluffy bunny installed in Plaza 3 with your MoveOns, Wheee! Martin himself is dropping the 5 slotted Speedguns at the military base!
o_O
What planet do you people live on? Is this your way of saying that drops are too infrequent? I won't argue with that but making all the rare guns as common as table salt? :lol: That is some good shit you're smoking. The only thing that would differentiate a 5 slot "made" rare from a 5 slot "earned" rare would be the flashlight and laser pointer.
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 06:52
Jinxy, and no I won't put the cap's in..
I've made other poll's similar to this, this thread is a dictatorship, my dictationship..
if you wanted to vote no you could have not voted and said no..
right now rare's are needed to PvP, this will remove the need to wast hours finding all the rareparts you need to be able tostand a chance in PvP...
I attacked a similar level APU a while back, he was damage boosted I was coming from behind.. I had energy beam and other psi spells (psi attack 2, pretty good anti monk), I shoot him, he turn's and kill's me in two hit's with a holy lightning..
that's a fight I would have won had he not had a HL, or I had one too..
I could tell you a story about my tank with a TPC Vs a CS tank..
or the tale of my PE with PP Vs PE with judge..
or even a story of my Spy...
I could tell you a tale of how I got my ass kicked by people with rare's, then I could tell you tales of me kicking higher level people's butt's as long as they don't pull rare's out..
rare's mean to much, and are too vital, and the popular ones are very rare indeed..
i'll say again what i said earlier:
Your little quote:
Webshock... the point to hunting rare's would be, since the EXP weapons (this is now what I'll be calling BP built rares) would have lower quality cap, and as such would not be as good as trule rare's...
My little quote:
a rare with worse stats is no better than using the next weapon lower down surely?
hence reducing the stats, makes it as good as the next weapon down, hence making the whole thing totally pointless as you STILL dont have a rare!! you STILL have to go out looking for one!!
whos going to want "EXP nearly a rare but not quite as good as"
as thats what we aleady have!!
lol i just dont see your point at all..
and i vote NO
QuantumDelta
20-09-03, 06:58
Actually Donny, it's you that needs the wakeup call.
CS and all the other rare weapons are not actually that much more powerful than their non-rare counter parts.
This is more noticable when the TL difference between the rare and non-rare version is low.
The Primary and, really only difference apart from the swirly, is that Real Rares have no quality cap under the total cap of 120%.
This means that rares will always be multiple times better than non-rare copies of themselves.
Ask any droner.
Generally, even a five slotted version of such a weapon would not be that great, because of the low quality cap.
Ultima modding and then working from there would lead to a decent PvP Weapon, but it's possible many Real CS and any 5 slot TPC would probably out perform a constructed blueprinted CS.
As for the other nay-sayer.
Only idiots think that the rare items (which are almost required for high level combat) in neocron, should actually be rare.
It's bad enough already, let alone idiots that come in and say "....nooooooooo nerf tech pool loot............nerfffff!!!!! rares = rare!!!!!!!!1111oneone i r n00b...."
Jeez.
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 06:59
Jinxy how would it make it pointless?
I'd rather get a bped HL then waste tons of time and money trying to get the elusive 5 slot energy beam.
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 07:00
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
The only thing that would differentiate a 5 slot "made" rare from a 5 slot "earned" rare would be the flashlight and laser pointer.
no you HUMAN!!!!!
you don't get it, the rare's would keep the effects like swirly and names, the Made ones would be called EXP [Weapontypename]
I find your other comment's offensive, you are trying to make my idea's sound stupid..
how hard would it be to get 5 slot's on a Made weapon, rembering that it's going to take Weaponpart 10's or so, you know all them high TL parts, it'll cost a great deal that's how much...
how many times would you have to get it made, and BPed and such... it would take quite a while to get 5 slots on one, this is not a bloody TPC, this is a cut above in term's or weaponpart costs and rarety.. think about it, higher weaponpart's can't be gotten in shop's so you have to go out and either hunt them from high level mobs, or buy them off players and BP and then make them from chem's taking more time...
Now HUMAN, go away, your prattling is anyoing!
NONONO. Okay listen up!
Lets say you have all 6 cursed
soul peices, or all 6 Silent Hunter
peices. You then go to a constructor
to get them made into a weapon.
*Now there is 100% zero chance of
your weapon getting any slots
because it is rare. It will simply come
with 120 in all stats and with 1
random weapon mod.* Your
constructor goes.... "It's an X-Heated
Cursed Soul!" and you go "DAMN!! I
already have one of those!!" and so
you go off to find another 6 cursed
soul parts.
This way every cursed soul/silent
hunter you get made will be good,
but you will still want to go out and
get a few more made.
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 07:18
Originally posted by Benjie
edited for consistency
Don't piss your shit here. go make your own thread if you have another idea..
My idea, you are calling it dumb, and you've done so as a flame..
I now defend my thread...
MY IDEA, means that you don't have to waste hour's upon hours of your life trying to collect parts to make a weapon that you can use to be effective in PvP, your idea, which you've poluted my thread with means you could make a weapon which is useless you you in PvP, see, you even gave an example of how it could go wrong, who's use a Nova CS? how about Xheated?, Xray? and so on, so people would have to wast more time getting more weapons built hopping that they get the mod they want, and not some shit that will gimp them in PvP...
Go go away and make your own thread, and let us trash talk your idea more.
QuantumDelta
20-09-03, 07:19
Ehm.... Benjie... I really hope that was some kinda sarcasm.... right....?
Spectra260
20-09-03, 07:37
YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS
Define your quality caps for "made" rares, then. What are we talking about, can't mod past 70%? 90%? Something like making a 5 slot Exp TPC, fully modded, only a few percent (if that) more effective than a 5 slot 120/120/120/120 regular TPC, or even not more effective at all?
What's the point then, really? If you want more guns just ask for more guns. I'm all for more "made" weapons of all different tech levels, including some that narrow the gap between the current highest non-rares and their rare counterparts, why not just add an Exp TPC and an Exp, say, a (TL 95) Tangent Autopistol, etc etc? I'm reaching here but isn't that sort of what you have in mind? Lets just get some new guns in the TL 90-100 range, and get the constructors to work. I guess blueprinting the existing rares with low quality caps would be one way to get them in game. But instead of disrupting the whole quality caps scheme with weapons let's keep the 120% as a standard and just add some more weapons to build.
But damn, my researcher better get some love if he's gonna be cranking out more hundreds of high high TL blueprints. That shit scares me. Do you know how long it takes a good resser to get those 50-100....Blacksun blueprints? That's seriously an hour or 2 of my playing time. 50 blacksun blueprints would take about 7 tubes of research gunk and, well, 50 cubes :lol: but you know what I might get tipped by some random customer? Like ~20k. I charge like 125k for a run of blueprints and my rates are gonna go up :p
Anyway, I apologize for the fluffy bunny comment, twas uncalled for :p but you took it in stride. The idea is not stupid, just a little half baked :p
I voted yes.. the second one, simply because A. both options was yes and B. because I think that RARES should be RARE period and since atm "rares" are required for pvp then making them bpable but not quite as strong as the original would be better IMO O_o
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 08:04
Originally posted by DonnyJepp
Define your quality caps for "made" rares, then. What are we talking about, can't mod past 70%? 90%? Something like making a 5 slot Exp TPC, fully modded, only a few percent (if that) more effective than a 5 slot 120/120/120/120 regular TPC, or even not more effective at all?
stop looking at the 5's, and come down to the meat of the matter..
EXP plasma cannon would cap as a TL 105 item.
so it'd const cap at I realy don't know off the top of my head the right number on the dot, but about 75%'s or so, maybe higher...
then you could mod it as high as you frelling like upto the hard moding cap of 120 if you could get mods enough to do it..
the diffrence mainly would be for high level players, who can cap a TPC easly, a EPC would be a higher TL weapon and so slightly better for them...
a five slot anything can get near it's rare version, a 5 slot EPC would with Ultima, barrel, Ammo system and bullet chamber and a ammo mod would be better than a 5 slot TPC, with same mods, and better than a non slotted 105 all stat's CS.
don't think 5 slot's all the time, it's rare to get 5 slot's..
So you're not talking about a hard cap on what % you could mod these things up to? /edit beyond the 120% normal cap?
Again, why not just add some new guns at the tech levels you're looking for? I don't see the whole jazz with blueprinting the rare guns when we could just add some new "normals" to the weapon pool.
don't think 5 slot's all the time, it's rare to get 5 slot's..
Almost all of my primary's and 2ndary characters' stuff is 5 slots, maybe that's just a Saturn phenomenon, because everyone has a tradeskilled alt?
Here's the formula, you can make it as complex as you like it.
1. Make 100 of the item, 150 tops.
2. If you want to save money but take more time, build from chems.
3. You will find that you can research most of the weapon part blueprints (to build WPs from chems) at your clan or faction's laboratories.
4. Purchase all parts and/or chems with a barter.
5. Mod and sell all the 1-2 slot weapons to yo's, with the barter.
6. Sell 3-4 slot weapons on trade channel.
7. Keep your new 5 slot item and the 4 slot and 3 slot backup copies.
8. Thank your constructor with a very large tip
9. Generally have more money in your pocket than you started with.
10. PROFIT and ph4t l00t
/me runs to get exp holy catharsis sanc and exp holy antipoison sanc blueprints in the hopper.
I'm not sure anyone here has a true idea as to what weapon quality truly means. It doesn't effect the max amount of damage it does, it doesn't effect the max range of the gun, etc. All it effects is how many skill points it takes to get a desired effect.
For instance: Get a TPC with 120% in the damage stat. Figure out how much H-C it would take to get it up to 178% then skill that much. Use it. See X damage per shot come off your victim (You'd need to do it on a mob).
Now get a TPC with...say 105% in the damage stat. Now test it with the same amount of H-C it took to get the previous TPC (which will be TPC1 from now on) to 178%. Note that TPC2 does Y damage.
Now, bump up your H-C to a point where the damage on TPC2 is at 178%. Victimize the mob again and learn that TPC2 does the exact same amount of damage per shot as TPC1, but it required more skill to get there.
So, in summary, the experimental weapons (as Q' has taken to calling them) would still have the capability of doing the same amount of max damage as their full fledged 'rare' (take that word with a grain of salt) counterpart, but due to the high techlevel of these weapons, would require a significantly higher investment of skillpoints to get there.
THAT, gentlemen, is how it works.
And I still agree with him. Rares should be made BP'able, but they should then follow the same quality cap rules as normal weapons.
One other thing. I personally think that at least some rare weapons are actually the strength of a higher TL weapon than they themselves are. That would definately explain why a CS puts an extreme amount of hurt on just about anything.
--Stryfe
Dictionary > Me :rolleyes:
*points up* wut he said :D
anyway i think its a fine idea as it'll give constrs/ressers more stuff to do (real bizness). And also when u "Accidentally" lose that uber rare u wont DIE so in short belt hax0rs will have stuff to do too now cuz u can get "exp"-rares (as i'm assumming people will be more inclind to carry more than 1 rare on their person.
How hard is it to get a CS? Not very. Took me about a week to get the parts. Got a 3 sloter made (got lucky). How often will some one drop their precious CS? Not very often. So really whats the problem here. This is a MMORPG, so make the people work for something.
Originally posted by Mantus
How hard is it to get a CS? Not very. Took me about a week to get the parts. Got a 3 sloter made (got lucky). How often will some one drop their precious CS? Not very often. So really whats the problem here. This is a MMORPG, so make the people work for something. Damnit. Not everyone has a lot of time to play the game. Since I've started my new job, I've had about 2 hours each night IF I'M LUCKY. I'd like to be able to do more than farm things on the weekend to get the parts I need to build or trade for a needed rare.
Not all of us have the ingame resources (or time, as mentioned above) to be able to get parts. Hell, it took me about 4 days to get about 50 frickin' rifles constructed to get decent slottage.
--Stryfe
hehehe u'd change yer tune if u got 0 slots on that one... :D
I like the idea. New 'normal' weapons at similar TLs works too.. it'd be pretty much identical in effect, surely?
In fact, I like the idea of almost everything being blueprintable and constructable - just require non-storebought parts (8-10, H-K) in their build formulas.
As an alternative, I like (in concept anyway) the means mentioned for getting the new rare shotgun - having a sorta epic run equivalent to get it. Basically any means of getting it other than the current part hunting. Since the current means of getting it is identical to the means of getting to the level to use them in the first place - killing lots and lots and lots of mobs over and over. It gets old fast.
Also as a thematic reason - surely sooner or later the weapons manufactures will be able to reverse engineer these guns and start mass producing them? We know how to build the guns from tech parts, now we (or rather, the corporations' R&D departments) just need to figure out how to make the tech parts. Hell, they just need to know how to make fucked up tech parts that're all smashed up (they're "wrecked" remember - we're building guns out of high tech junk here). Tangent've got to have realised the profit to be made in selling guns that're a good 50-100% more effective than the best weapons in their current range.
As an aside, I'm a little confused on why this thread is a poll.. the options mean the results won't really show anything useful o_O
Yes, I'll agree with the idea of making Rare's Blueprintable. I feel however that, in order to preserve the level of power of low slotted true rares, these constructed rares would have to be expensive to manufacture enough so as to dissuade people from building thousands of them to get a super slotted one on a par with the non or one slotted actual rares.
although i think this is a fantastic idea and i vote yes
i doubt anything will ever be changed with the rare system, and it would kinda ruin the story line if we were able to clone the rare weapons just like normal weapons.
the rare weapons were once used in ancient battles, the weapons were destroyed, the only way to recover them is to collect all the missing parts and to get it rebuilt.
i do like ur idea though q would be fantastic. i still vote yes however.
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 14:04
The idea is, it's a poll, which makes people think they can have a vote, which draw's them in to flame the polling options and vote no's wihtout reading, having both options as yes means that they have to read the thread and thus the chance they will like the idea..
it's easyer to just come in and vote no without thinking, than to come in and say no with a thought out reply.. So anyone wanting to bash this has to think of somthing to say, other than No.
Ok, back to topic..
The reason it's BPing rare's and not store weapons of = TL, is because it keep's the ballence in the player's hands, if you want to fill the game with EPC's you've got to get a rare to BP...
Also, maybe even make it so you can only BP a rare, but not a EXP Weapon, this prevents a glut in the market, as you've got to hand your rare over to a researcher for him to take prints off, and after he's done your print's even if he's take a few he won't be able to make copys without the rare..
simple idea's, for simple people..
Psyco Groupie
20-09-03, 14:07
a shit quality rare is not as good as a high slot normal ... just wait for the high qual rare drops
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 14:08
Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
a shit quality rare is not as good as a high slot normal ... just wait for the high qual rare drops
You didn't read the thread or post anything about it, you are thus offtopic, please post somthing on topic, or not at all.
It could fit well into the storyline as well. SAy Tangent is bringing out a new line of wepons after researching the rares. Say they couln't get it perfect and this is what they came up with.
Don't know how that fits in with how you would BP the actual rares, but you see what I mean. TT tries to reproduce the rares...
Not a bad idea.
It took me ages to get my rares, but I still like the idea, however, I'll vote when you setup a real poll rather than this plainly biased and stupid poll, that greatly undermines your argument.
And as for what you said about people having to read, make them post their reply, rather than having a poll at all. A lot of people see a poll at the top like that and just ignore the thread.
so
YES!
you MY FRIEND are a fuckin genious
this would rock :)
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 14:32
Any chance a mod could change this poll so ppl can vote no, just a third option wityh the word No... Don't alter any other option's or votes....
this would just lead to people building 100's of them to get 5 slots
1 ammo mod , ultima mod + normal mods = aritfact
its a good idea but i dont know if it would work
Q`alooaith
20-09-03, 17:07
Originally posted by Ste-X
this would just lead to people building 100's of them to get 5 slots
1 ammo mod , ultima mod + normal mods = aritfact
its a good idea but i dont know if it would work
If you make weaponpart 10's and such needed for the build then people making 100's of them would cost a huge ammount, and take a deal of time, and NC's always needing more time and money sink's...
yea it'd not be easy to get them to rare level's, but they'd be good enough to stand a chance..
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