Lucjan
20-09-03, 02:11
As most of us know, the balance in Neocron’s PvP reached some sort of
dead end currently. We get more nerf/boost threads on daily basis, more
then in the time of overpowered hybrids. But nerfing or even boosting
won’t help at the current stage, it will make most of the things even
worse, it will always lead to the situation where one will be superior
to other until he gets nerfed or the others boosted. This stupid circle
needs to be broken.
Lets start with the easier part, the classes in “1on1 PvP” or fighting
on their own. Our problem child here is especially APU and spy and what
it comes down to is range.
The most important thing to start any work on balancing PvP is to get
the range problem sorted out, means weapon aim has to be separated from
range. Then ranges of all weapons need to be redefined using the clipping
range of the engine as maximum range (except drones of course).
Then, and only then, pistols can be fast aiming close combat weapons and
sniper rifles deal damage on maximum range no other weapon can. APU spells
and tank cannons will be truly medium range weapons and we will feel the
range difference.
-Spy-
Now as the rifle spy will gain a true range advantage over other classes,
we need to boost his defense a little. We lower the requirements on Inq-1
und Dur-1 armors by 3 STR and that way combat spies have better access to
these armors without drugs. If it turns out players still aren’t able to
maintain a good defense on combat dedicated spies, requirements can be
lowered by another 3 STR. The next thing to consider would be the sniper
profession. As it is now, sniper rifles have a damage problem. What is
basically comes down to is the “one shot kill protection” kicking in and
messing up our sniper’s business. A possible solution would be to change
the way sniper rifle deal damage to 2 or 3 bullets per shot as suggested
by Richard Slade and kurai few days ago.
-PE-
I actually don't see any changes necessary for the moment beside limiting
shelters to self-cast, but that would be a general to follow, more about
that later.
-Tank-
Tanks get access to light belts as suggested by Scikar by lowering their
requirements to INT 10 (fire), INT 12 (energy), INT 15 (poison) and
INT 17 (light deflector).
The ATL penalty on PAs gets converted to AGL, PAs get additional +5 to
energy resists.
-APU-
Actually the APU needs some sort of healing. Boosting medkits might be an
option, otherwise a heal spell with PSI only requirements healing on a
rate compared to the tank’s heal maybe.
These changes together with the weapon reworks Lupus is working on would
bring us to a pretty good balance in PvP. The problem now is, I left the
PPU out. The moment the PPU comes into play, the above balance is gone.
The pure monk concept is a mad design. I’ve have not the slightest idea
how to balance a class like PPU in correlation with the other classes.
Limiting shelter and deflector to be self cast only and a reduction on
heals on other runners would be a way, but that would limit the PPU’s
“job” to casting boosters, resurrection and the anti-heals...doesn’t
somehow sound very appealing to me.
Actually the only idea I see for the PPU problem is either the return
of to the old hybrid concept with EPU and balancing it from scratch or
a rework of the monk class according to the common mage/wizzard design
rules.
That would basically mean that all monks are hybrid by design and they
rely for offense and defense on PSI and PSI alone.
Their armor will be very weak, could be also removed all together, but
empty armor slots would look stupid. Their defense would basically rely
on CON and PSI.
How much defense is up to the player then, if wanted, a pure APU or PPU
could be created, he just won’t be able to cash shields and deflectors
on others.
I think it is needless to mention that parashocks will be no more.
Such a change would of course require other designs for shelter or deflector
when it comes to duration. The duration how long these spells lasts should
be determined by the amount of PPU. Of course the negative effect of APU
on PPU or vice versa is no more, same would most likely be for MST.
For sure the monk redesign would be harsh move and much work to do.
An alternative route to follow and try out would be the following changes to
keep the above class’ balance in frames – it might not be the ideal solution,
but would not require a rework:
- Heal reduction on other runners by 30%
- Removal of the shock effect of parashocks in PvP or turning them entirely
to PvM only
- Introduction of Anti-Buff weapons. Charge time of these weapons would be
dependent on the frequency % stats. Actually freezer weapons could be used
for this purpose and with different TLs of the weapons like the APU spells
with rare freezers acting like APU’s Crahn Antibuff.
From my point of view, even with the current PPUs and the above changes
applied, Neocron’s PvP would be way more balanced. Team enforcement just
isn’t a feature for Neocron and especially not with player numbers way
below 1.000 per server.
Your thoughts?
dead end currently. We get more nerf/boost threads on daily basis, more
then in the time of overpowered hybrids. But nerfing or even boosting
won’t help at the current stage, it will make most of the things even
worse, it will always lead to the situation where one will be superior
to other until he gets nerfed or the others boosted. This stupid circle
needs to be broken.
Lets start with the easier part, the classes in “1on1 PvP” or fighting
on their own. Our problem child here is especially APU and spy and what
it comes down to is range.
The most important thing to start any work on balancing PvP is to get
the range problem sorted out, means weapon aim has to be separated from
range. Then ranges of all weapons need to be redefined using the clipping
range of the engine as maximum range (except drones of course).
Then, and only then, pistols can be fast aiming close combat weapons and
sniper rifles deal damage on maximum range no other weapon can. APU spells
and tank cannons will be truly medium range weapons and we will feel the
range difference.
-Spy-
Now as the rifle spy will gain a true range advantage over other classes,
we need to boost his defense a little. We lower the requirements on Inq-1
und Dur-1 armors by 3 STR and that way combat spies have better access to
these armors without drugs. If it turns out players still aren’t able to
maintain a good defense on combat dedicated spies, requirements can be
lowered by another 3 STR. The next thing to consider would be the sniper
profession. As it is now, sniper rifles have a damage problem. What is
basically comes down to is the “one shot kill protection” kicking in and
messing up our sniper’s business. A possible solution would be to change
the way sniper rifle deal damage to 2 or 3 bullets per shot as suggested
by Richard Slade and kurai few days ago.
-PE-
I actually don't see any changes necessary for the moment beside limiting
shelters to self-cast, but that would be a general to follow, more about
that later.
-Tank-
Tanks get access to light belts as suggested by Scikar by lowering their
requirements to INT 10 (fire), INT 12 (energy), INT 15 (poison) and
INT 17 (light deflector).
The ATL penalty on PAs gets converted to AGL, PAs get additional +5 to
energy resists.
-APU-
Actually the APU needs some sort of healing. Boosting medkits might be an
option, otherwise a heal spell with PSI only requirements healing on a
rate compared to the tank’s heal maybe.
These changes together with the weapon reworks Lupus is working on would
bring us to a pretty good balance in PvP. The problem now is, I left the
PPU out. The moment the PPU comes into play, the above balance is gone.
The pure monk concept is a mad design. I’ve have not the slightest idea
how to balance a class like PPU in correlation with the other classes.
Limiting shelter and deflector to be self cast only and a reduction on
heals on other runners would be a way, but that would limit the PPU’s
“job” to casting boosters, resurrection and the anti-heals...doesn’t
somehow sound very appealing to me.
Actually the only idea I see for the PPU problem is either the return
of to the old hybrid concept with EPU and balancing it from scratch or
a rework of the monk class according to the common mage/wizzard design
rules.
That would basically mean that all monks are hybrid by design and they
rely for offense and defense on PSI and PSI alone.
Their armor will be very weak, could be also removed all together, but
empty armor slots would look stupid. Their defense would basically rely
on CON and PSI.
How much defense is up to the player then, if wanted, a pure APU or PPU
could be created, he just won’t be able to cash shields and deflectors
on others.
I think it is needless to mention that parashocks will be no more.
Such a change would of course require other designs for shelter or deflector
when it comes to duration. The duration how long these spells lasts should
be determined by the amount of PPU. Of course the negative effect of APU
on PPU or vice versa is no more, same would most likely be for MST.
For sure the monk redesign would be harsh move and much work to do.
An alternative route to follow and try out would be the following changes to
keep the above class’ balance in frames – it might not be the ideal solution,
but would not require a rework:
- Heal reduction on other runners by 30%
- Removal of the shock effect of parashocks in PvP or turning them entirely
to PvM only
- Introduction of Anti-Buff weapons. Charge time of these weapons would be
dependent on the frequency % stats. Actually freezer weapons could be used
for this purpose and with different TLs of the weapons like the APU spells
with rare freezers acting like APU’s Crahn Antibuff.
From my point of view, even with the current PPUs and the above changes
applied, Neocron’s PvP would be way more balanced. Team enforcement just
isn’t a feature for Neocron and especially not with player numbers way
below 1.000 per server.
Your thoughts?