View Full Version : Private Eyes need un-nerfing
Sorry somthing just dawned on me. Private eyes are supposed to be able to do everything but averagly. At the moment they can't. They have more options, but this is just like an ongoing character selection screen. With loms nurfed this makes the private eye's orrigional position obsolete.
A tank should be better in combat that a pe. (Like i keep saying in all the tank threads. It's just true okay?) But two pe's should be able to attack a single tank. One should be able to stealth away while the other finishes the tank off. Then the pe who stealthed should then be able to try and attempt to hack the outpost. The second pe after killing the tank should then be able to assist the pe. Then another guy would help finish the task. They would perhaps not hack the outpost first time around. Alone they should not be able to kill a tank. They should not be able to stealth away aswell as a spy could. They should just be able to do it all in an average un specialist way.
This makes me belive that pe's should be "un-nerfed" or reworked. I'm not going to suggest how this could be acheived. Leave this to reakktor, it's there job.
I would say that they don't fit the JOAT description. But with the new PE PA coming out I would say that KK want them to no longer be JOATs.
Also I say that atm PE's are ok, so we shouldn't fix whats not broken. :D
No offence Benjie.
Reakktor need to change the private eye class desription, or make pe's a jack of all trades. I would prefere the latter.
Make them stronger than they already are? o_O
Disturbed021
19-09-03, 22:45
Originally posted by Rob01m
Make them stronger than they already are? o_O
Nah Benjie means to re-work them; ie nerf.
I think KK should just rework all the class descriptions, the old ones are so damn misleading this isnt funny anymore. The specialization patch in early retail changed the entire concept of classes, but I think we should stick with it. I mean the people who play PEs have chosen them as they are, not what the description told them they will be, otherwise they had already rerolled to another class.
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 22:54
Originally posted by Lucjan
I think KK should just rework all the class descriptions, the old ones are so damn misleading this isnt funny anymore.
I absolutely agree. And they need to be in-depth and specific. None of this "this class can either be support or etc...." I mean REAL in-depth explanations.
PE's are not JOATS. joat in nc means "suck at all" not be "average at all". in NC , specialisation works.
PE's description in the manual tends to lead the reader to feel a PE can do everything, even if it takes him MUCH longer to get there. This was what I based my choosing PE's on , and every time I see tank's with CS's , monks with holy lightning , and spys with first loves , i kick myself for choosing PE.
:rolleyes: but dont get me started on the "im angry cause im a PE thing"
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 23:04
Originally posted by Leebzie
PE's are not JOATS.
Then why should they get stealth?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Then why should they get stealth?
....and hacking
....and combat
....and good psi
pe's atm are specialising classes. pe's should be the only classes that don't specialise.
=Slightly off topic, not really directed at anyone=
Don't you start messing with my PE. Are you a PE? If you are, don't you DARE say Pistol PE. Be a riffle PE and tell me they are "not ballanced." Just cause PE's happen to be getting a boost from pistols lately does NOT mean the the class as a whole is out of whack.
=Ok, back to the subject=
Specialization. Can't get anywhere in this game without it. So don't talk about how a PE ain't the "Jack of all trades," he's got a little bit of everything =as far as this game will allow=. It's fine how it is.
Currently, pistols just so happen to be playing the role of the "anti-tank" farely well (wether too well or not may be a diff topic). Seeing how this game seems to be taking the turn of revolving around "X and anti-X", the PE has remained in its somewhat neutral position.
Doing everything "averagly" in this game is not an option. There really is no point.
"Tank should always pwn" o_O
Quote: PE's are not JOATS. joat in nc means "suck at all" not be "average at all". in NC , specialisation works.
- Maybe, but I'm not sure if its a "it works" situation, or if it's a "the way it is" situation. :(
PE's are fine, leave them alone. Currently a PE can fight and have a tradeskill, but arent overpowering. They are good as they are.
Originally posted by VetteroX
PE's are fine, leave them alone. Currently a PE can fight and have a tradeskill, but arent overpowering. They are good as they are.
This being said by a player who speaks of his overwhelming victories and back to back winning combat.
anyone who can say PEs are a specializing class are idiots...specializing obviously means dedicated to one thing...but how can we be dedicated to one thing without seriously gimping everything else...we cant use the best of ANY weapon...we cant be uber constructors or researchers....and as far as psi....pffft puleeeeease...just because we can use regular shelter...in case you didnt notice it really does fuck all as it is...and its not like we can cap the damn thing........leave em the way they are...fix the real problems in this game
Originally posted by extract
anyone who can say PEs are a specializing class are idiots...specializing obviously means dedicated to one thing...but how can we be dedicated to one thing without seriously gimping everything else...we cant use the best of ANY weapon...we cant be uber constructors or researchers....and as far as psi....pffft puleeeeease...just because we can use regular shelter...in case you didnt notice it really does fuck all as it is...and its not like we can cap the damn thing........leave em the way they are...fix the real problems in this game
You're wrong about the shelter, it's a GREAT asset to PEs, it adds on another 27% - 35% protection (more likely closer to 27% because you won't get close to cap). This puts your overall defense (leaving out force/piercing which PEs have more of anyways) higher than a good tank's. This is extremely important for PvP.
Its totaly different. I still die sometimes, I lose duels sometimes. Not like a hybred whos 100% absolutely unbeatable 1vs1, like you want back. Pes have less firepower then tanks and apus, and less defence then a tank when shelter falls, which can happen often in a fight. That is the balance. I win because I can take PE's to the limits, and most people dont know how to do that with each class.
QuantumDelta
19-09-03, 23:59
PEs are a very specialised class, actually.
Due to their low statlines they don't have "freedom."
IF you really wanted to make a PE a JOAT in this game they would HAVE to have more levels than the other classes.
60/60/60/60/60 = useless.
If that was a PE, it would be a JOAT.
JOAT = Gimp. != PE.
However, what most idiots seem to confuse JOAT with, is that PEs draw on pretty much every single combat stat line there is.
PSI, we are HEAVILY Dependant on our PSI, just as much as any monk in a lot of cases.
DEX, this is primarily how we fight, most PEs use DEX Weaponry because this is our highest stat, naturally we need to specialise heavily in this stat and since TC and AGL are in here as well any PE that wants to do well is heavily penalised by this system. (Though not as much as you would imagine a 20 level lower character DEX would be compared to a spy because of the position of our starting points, if it weren't for those starting points many PE setups would not be viable)
STR, we again, are heavily dependant on our STR for our armor, without the armor there is no way we would be able to take the damage that we do because our CON would be too widely spread, also this is used to make PE the best Force and Pierce resisting class in the game.
CON, again, shared with our armor, our CON can be very beneficial most people capitalise on this and use their CON heavily as well.
INT, though not as dependant on INT as many other classes, even pistols required an token amount of weaponlore, even if it is from implants alone, recommended tech pistol weapon lore is 100.
Most other good combat PEs are Rifles (pure wep, no trades), or as Pistol, PSU + Higher Wep to cap tech pistol damage. - We also depend heavily on the implants available to us to kick us up to medium energy belt to allow us to complete our defencive posturing.
without a great deal of to and fro in a PE setup the PE would be totally lost, everything in the PE Configuration is a compromise of some sort, and every item and weapon they use must be of the best possible stats for it to be useful to such a low statline class.
Therefore, it is the PE, which is the hardest to configure class in the game by far.
Exception;
Spies that wanna go toe-to-toe with other classes.
Not to say the other classes are easy, it's just the PE is hardest.
Edit;
btw, Shelter adds 27-35% out of the remaining % which wasn't covered by resists, it doesn't actually block straight 27-35 (for most PEs this will be below 30% I think my shelter comes out at 31.2...ish),
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
btw, Shelter adds 27-35% out of the remaining % which wasn't covered by resists, it doesn't actually block straight 27-35 (for most PEs this will be below 30% I think my shelter comes out at 31.2...ish),
I know that, I thought you all would know what I meant by 27-35%....
As far as the whole "harder to setup" deal, you are right, they are harder to setup, but from my testing, once you set them up, the fights are pretty easy. My Saturn PE does more than my APU monk and tank by far. Don't you dare say I don't know how to set them up either, that's just plain insulting and wrong.
I'd like to see a "great setup" tank (with a great player behind the screen) or a "great setup" APU (with a great player behind the screen) win against a "great setup" PE (with a great player behind the screen) one on one in a duel, I've never seen it.
You guys are right about the Hybrids, they were too overpowered.
QuantumDelta
20-09-03, 00:19
Actually I get my arse kicked by great APUs fairly often 1on1.
It's always 50/50 and is normally totally dependant on random damage and the luck of the draw.
APUs are the only class I can't even afford the luxury of damage boosting. (If everything is allowed, of course).
edit;
I'm NOT SAYING APUS ARE OVER POWERED.
Please God I'm not heh.
50/50 = how I like my fights.
And how a few of the APUs I know are skilled ;)
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 00:23
Originally posted by Rob01m
I'd like to see a "great setup" APU (with a great player behind the screen) win against a "great setup" PE (with a great player behind the screen) one on one in a duel, I've never seen it.
O_O
Never?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
O_O
Never?
Not counting crashes and such, never.
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 00:30
Watch more people pvp. :p
QuantumDelta
20-09-03, 00:31
Heh, he's right. APUs pwn when played well.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Watch more people pvp. :p
That's pretty insulting to me, don't assume I have watched one fight in my life. I've seen lots of fighting sesssions (NOTE I said one vs. one in my little spiel)
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Heh, he's right. APUs pwn when played well.
Supposing this was true, what do you have to say about the current state of tanks? Can they "pwn" a great PE in a one vs. one fight like the kind I stated in my last statement?
well i fought "great" pe's, rifle and pistol; rifles are easy as long as i keep moving and dont lag; pistols i fight out even mainly cuz libbies hurt (a la shit exp 3); so no PEs arent overpowered; no their not nerfed..
PE = BALANCED!
50/50 fight chances sound just about right to me.
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 00:35
Originally posted by Rob01m
That's pretty insulting to me, don't assume I have watched one fight in my life.
Sorry, didn't mean to insult you.
Originally posted by Rob01m
I've seen lots of fighting sesssions (NOTE I said one vs. one in my little spiel)
I was referring to 1v1. :angel:
QuantumDelta
20-09-03, 00:51
Skilled Tank vs Skilled PE.
Depends on the level of skills.
Recently I haven't found many tanks of the calibur of old, and those that used to be good have slipped due to lack of effort or other problems.
While APU is 50/50 based mainly around the random damage for me.
Tanks is completely different.
If a CS Tank is 100% accurate with their CS (met a few like that), I die, period, no matter what I do, I can't kill that tank.
Since 100% is not actually that hard, more often than not the Tanks capable of doing it, will beat me.
However, anyone not capable of doing it(or doing it reliably) is normally sent home in a bodybag.
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