View Full Version : LE Chip *IS* Being Exploited - Pls Fix
Ok, this isnt a bitch at LE user's, because they use it because they want to, and dont want to partake in PvP or just want to level up quietly, which is perfectly perfect, I kept my LE in till PSI 75, which meant GR visits a lot *g*.
However, the LE chip is being exploited by some people. Last night, I was out leveling up (since going from APU to PPU, I've gained like 6 levels :( ) with a APU who I'd helped level. Then this LE dick comes in, and starts kill stealing, and using barrels in our area (knows it wont hurt us, but will kill the mob's we are barreling). This in itself sucks, because the only person that can get hurt by his barrels, is him. He is also a clanned runner apparently, but not in a clan at the moment, just running around with his LE in.
So my APU partner and I decide to mess around, and play with his mind. She speaks Spanish, so when he comes and says "reset teh room" she goes "que?". Eventually led, to this..
http://www.dgwebb.force9.co.uk/ncimages/le.jpg
Thats right, him (much higher level with twirly rare's) going off to remove his LE, to come back, and kill people, which indeed, he did, he came back with a flashy HL, poor monk, he died of course.
Anyway, later in Plaza 1, he's again got his LE in, sitting in A&W. This is really exploiting the LE chip, and is unfair on people who use their LE correctly.
Solutions - Remove all taken out LE chips, and, when LE's are removed, they vanish, means, u take it out, it stays out.
Solution 2 - If you take an LE out, it stays out, or, if you stick it back in, after a certan level, you CANNOT remove it (only applies is LE has been removed previously)
Solution 3 - If LE = Removed and Level => xx/35 Then LE = Unimplantable.
Syntax-Error
19-09-03, 13:49
I agree. the people who go on wild killing sprees and the go to there app and stick an LE in... its sick
Also these APUs who goto PP cast barrles and then zone therefore killing load of people and getting no SL loss and being immortal to us..
I'd just like to point out, normal LE users tend to have good manners, they wont run up and kill your kill, or barrel the mobs around you, because it is something they wouldnt do without the LE, so they tend not to do it, with the LE.
this`ll be that spirit ? or sprint? guy at desert city then
Another ideas to solve the problem:
1. LE takes an extreme long time to put them back in. You can still take them out quite fast, but putting them back in should take very long.
2. Every character has a counter on how often the LE got implanted on that character. Then you set a limit to like 10 times.
Originally posted by hinch
this`ll be that spirit ? or sprint? guy at desert city then
Sprirt is the leader of Spirit the TG Clan.
Spirits is a tank in our clan Hinch.
Dunno who Sprint is o_O
some silly low lvl apu monk that was at the desert city when me lexx and bunny were there the o ther night
How is he exploiting the LE? i see no exploiting there.. unless you mean he is being unfair.. why do nt you people leave hte LE users alone? for the 5% of LE users out there hurt you that much?
If you want to put a limit on how many times LE can be taken out and put back in.. than MC5 CPUs should have a limit or Epic itmes should.. lol i see non LE users exploiting more than i see LE users that supposedly "exploit" sorry but becaus eyou dont like lE doesnt mean other people have to suffer..
Originally posted by Kasumi
How is he exploiting the LE? i see no exploiting there.. unless you mean he is being unfair.. why do nt you people leave hte LE users alone? for the 5% of LE users out there hurt you that much?
Kas, it's because he's a cocky git with a LE in, takes advantage of the fact he cant get hurt by certain barrels ;) and then when someone pises him off, takes the LE out, kills them, then puts the LE back in.
From what i see they were the wones provokeing him.. they decided to be mean to him.. he comes back without it in and hes exploiting?.. it seems they just wanted to make him mad.. lol these kind of threads should be closed or deleted.. Instead of causing a problem lexxuk could of asked im to team ro something.. hrmm
They had a right to be mean to him.
He was inconsiderate.
Didn't stop when asked to.
Then was a complete tool about it.
:wtf:
You know how many times non lE users have been inconsiderate of me when i am hunting? like 2 weeks ago i was hunting and what happens 3 PSIs come into Underground city and barrel everyone of the Giant scorpions i was leveling off of lol
Edit: I wont be posting in this thread again..
Kill them.
If they kill you, then they have to deal with the SL / FS issue.
eat or be eaten.
Kasumi - Expolit, by definition, is exploiting an ingame mechanic for own gain. He "couldnt" kill us, because his LE is in, he can however, kill steal, if he's just done that, then pissed off, fine. But, he went off, took his LE out, and came back with the intention of killing people, and then, go back, and put his LE chip back in. The LE is not designed for this activity, its a "I will not PvP/PK" device, not a "I'll take it out, PK, then put it back in" chip. Its an exploit of the chip.
I'm quite happy to team up with LE chipped players, I cant buff them, or rez them, but I'm happy to team with them. However, when they are in a Clan, put the LE in to level or whatever, then take it out to kill people, and then put it back in, its exploiting the reason the LE chip is there.
If he had not had his LE chip in, and was barreling us to get at our mob's, we would have died, well, ok, we would have been really pissed off at him, and he would have my parashock stuck up his arse, but instead, he decided to barrel us, our mobs, and, when we didnt play his game, he went, to come back with the intention of killing us, something he couldnt do as an LE user.
@ Hinch - nope, wasnt him, was a different person, but I'm sure he's seen The Light ;)
- btw, when he came back, he pulled out his Holy Lightenin (wouldnt really hurt me, 3 slot holy heal/shelter) to be met by a capped tank and PPU, serves his own right. Now thats what the LE chip is there to prevent!
/edit @ Katsumi again - If you have your LE in, and non LE people are taking your kill, ask them if you can join their team, better exp for you, if they are just being a dick about it, wait for respawn and then do it your own way.
The APU and I, after the first time of this happening, reset the area, come back out, and we stay in the first room, barreling all the mob's in there, whilst the LE chip, goes into the other room's, kills the stuff there, then comes back and starts barreling the mob's that we were killing.
If I'm in there, and I see someone who isnt in my team, killing, doing nice damage, but sticking to his/her own mobs, I'll happily buff them, heal them up, even if they are not in a team with us. Even when I was APU with my LE in, I stuck to my own mob's, and non-LE'd people were generally considerate and left me to myself.
ReefSmoker
19-09-03, 14:32
I've got an idea, get rid of the LE. By default PvP is turned off, if someone wants to PvP then they can, and in taking part in PvP they are forced to have their 'PvP switch' left turned on for the next 30 days.
Idea ripped directly from The Realm (www.realmserver.com). Works fine there, has done for 8 years.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
Originally posted by Kasumi
From what i see they were the wones provokeing him.. they decided to be mean to him.. he comes back without it in and hes exploiting?.. it seems they just wanted to make him mad.. lol these kind of threads should be closed or deleted..
Read the post again. Their leveling without their LE's in, the guy with the LE comes in, barrels like crazy knowing that he cant hurt anyone, and they cant hurt him, getting in the way etc, then get's cocky because black bunneh said ''que?'' The guy then goes off, takes LE out, comes bac to attack everyone, dies, pops LE back in, and goes back being a cocky bitch about it.
I got accused of exploiting a LE, I logged on one day with a stunning minus 72 SL on my tank, bugger dat so i left my clan put my LE in and got my SL back up with missions.
ahh yes lexx him
annoying little shit was taking my kills too and getting str at my lvl is so slow these days too
Reefie - who are you?
PM me. (I want some wicked cool Rings of eternal nourishment... if they still exist.)
*sorry for going offtopic*
Originally posted by hinch
ahh yes lexx him
que? :lol: :lol: :angel:
sì realmente ho desiderato ucciderlo ma non potrei
Mighty Max
19-09-03, 14:43
Its still igorant to want the LE practically be removed
because of some asses exploiting(???) it.
Whats with the Reza lovin' real LE wearers, which do their epic (and therfore HAVE to remove the LE at lvl35+)?
Dont give a f* about those LE fu**rs and good is.
Spy<VS>Spy
19-09-03, 14:48
neocron NEEDS LE chip, you cant remove it, its important and vital to new players. the only way you could ditch the chip is make it so when you leave MC5 it was removed. enhance MC5 to be a newb paradise with equipment, information, hunting...a mini MC5 community as you could say.
even then though, i wouldnt like it removed so bluntly.
however me and my clan have this feeling about the chip, if its a law enforcer, it makes sure you follow the law in neocron...the trick is, IN neocron. we are all under firm belife that outside of the walls of neocron...
well, the wastelands are lawless...so it is written, so it shall be done. if it still doesnt warn you when you chose your faction outside of neocron that those are for advanced players...well, it should.
My feeling is you want to be a whipped copbot bitch, keep it in neocron. if your rank is greater then 1 star to make it so you get no reward for launcher clops, well...tough titty's friend.
thats our take on it anyways.
No Max, I dont want it removed, I like the LE and the safety net it allows people. What I'd like fixed, is the ease with which Runner A can take out LE, kill runner B C D, stick LE back in, and be a dick/exploit the flaws in the mechanics.
Epic runs are another matter entirely, and should be redesigned to accomdate class/LE restrictions. As a PPU, the KILL KILL KILL thing, is very hard to do, I cant do the non city ones, because killing a Y-Rep would, well, it would be just impossible. LE user's should not be forced to remove LE to partake in a Epic either.
Originally posted by Mighty Max
Whats with the Reza lovin' real LE wearers, which do their epic (and therfore HAVE to remove the LE at lvl35+)?
Dont give a f* about those LE fu**rs and good is.
We do. Thats why a LE implanting counter would solve the problem. 12 epics, so lets put the counter to 20 or so.
Someones who plays an LE enhances TG ;-)
What gets me are anti-city folk who wear LE's.
YAY, I HAVE A PEICE OF REZA-WARE IN MY HEAD!
Mighty Max
19-09-03, 15:01
Even TG chars start in MC 5 ... what do you think they do there ... its not a kindergarden.
And pssst, the TGs dont need to know that Reza spies at them
Sorry, this all seems a bit over the top. Firstly, he was attacking your mobs with an LE in. Not in itself an exploit.
Next, he came back without his LE and tried to kill you. PvP, and he did lose after all. It's not like he still had the LE protection.
Lastly, LE gets put back in.... is that it?
Just remember that because someone is being a jerk, that doesn't mean the LE needs fixing, and learn to deal with it.
Hellhound, the problem is, he's not playing an LE user, he's playing a non LE that you cant kill because he has an LE in. Its like, me, running into pepper park, killing everyone there, getting -100 soul light, then sticking my LE back in and doing really hard missions at Malstrond.
The exploit here, was him coming back without his LE in, to do something that he couldnt do before, because of the LE. The fact I'd asked Alex and Pete to come play, is beside the point, if I hadnt called them, I would have had to have had a scrap with a much higher level APU and a tank, at the same time, whilst trying to protect the <<< APU I was leveling up.
Just because he didnt get to PK us, doesnt mean to say he wouldnt have. And now he has his LE back in, he can go back to being a dick, and if someone pisses him off, he can un-LE, go back, kill them, then re-LE, thats the h4x0r
I know what you mean, and I should have made my opinion clearer: just because something may be shockingly lame (which I agree this is) does not make it an exploit. The LE chip is designed to prevent PvP while you have it implanted, and it does this.
When he takes his LE out he can be killed like anyone else, looked at this way it's suddenly no worse than shooting a few newbs in the aggie cellars and running for the exit to Plaza.
Obviously this is annoying, but it doesn't warrant changing a part of the game system.
LE when used the right, correct way: Good
LE used like this: Bad
We can't remove the LE from the game. But we can't watch this kind of use of the LE. Solutions?
IMO, there should be a max level, like xx/25 when the LE can be put back in. So if your xx/26 and take of your LE, you can't put it back in.
This really needs to be fixed ASAP!
// Wannabe
Originally posted by Wannabe
IMO, there should be a max level, like xx/25 when the LE can be put back in. So if your xx/26 and take of your LE, you can't put it back in.
This really needs to be fixed ASAP!
// Wannabe
This solution instantly screws anyone who does the sensible thing and waits a while before joining a clan, then decides they were better off with the LE back in.... er, like me. :p
And why does it need to fixed ASAP? Do people honestly think that this kind of thing is (dare I say it) 'killing' Neocron?
I agree with you Hell, it is totally lame, and in the long run, it could end up hurting the real LE user's. If people are seen to be using the LE like this, to exploit the system, giving them god & complete lame dick, mode, restrictions might be put in place again on LE's, to try to prevent it and make sure lamer's cant use the LE just to stop themselves getting killed because people think they are a twat.
Real LE user's should never be punished for the actions of certain groups of people, this would be unfair, and unjust, by making sure that the Real LE user's can play the game, in the way they want, uninhibited by the actions of a few, then we will have reached a good compromise.
Originally posted by Wannabe
LE when used the right, correct way: Good
LE used like this: Bad
We can't remove the LE from the game. But we can't watch this kind of use of the LE. Solutions?
IMO, there should be a max level, like xx/25 when the LE can be put back in. So if your xx/26 and take of your LE, you can't put it back in.
This really needs to be fixed ASAP!
// Wannabe
I disagree on the level restricion. People might change their mind about PvP, and level 26+ is something some of us reach in few hours. Then, Neocron doesnt provide a stable balance base in PvP and I know to many people who for that reason quit or went the way I did with my current main char: LE in, as I cant stand that current PvP balancing problem anymore. Please think back to the hybrid time: for many it was a good thing to pop the LE in and try something different, as PvP was pretty much pointless. Same goes for the freezer age. Now we have the PPU age ;-)
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
I've got an idea, get rid of the LE. By default PvP is turned off, if someone wants to PvP then they can, and in taking part in PvP they are forced to have their 'PvP switch' left turned on for the next 30 days.
Best idea all round I think. Although a shorter time seems more reasonable, maybe 4-5 days. And then we'd be getting into the whole ''no, you have to have disadvantages if you don't want PvP, sorry."
On a side note, can LE users fight in neofrag?
LE is good, exploitable yes, but good.
I remember a while back i saw a Pkr in MC5 noob zone he was like level 20 or so and was ganking everyone that had there le chip out (wich given mc5 sucks wasnt many people)
the idea of the 'Pkswitch' is good but, 30 days is a long time, mebbe in or out once in 24hrs. timed by servers clock (or mjs witha wristwatch :eek: )
Cypher_Psy
19-09-03, 15:49
Ok, the device is called a LAW enforcer right?
So, people who remove it to commit a crime (take SL hit), then try to re-implant shouldn't be able to while bad SL..
OR
They can re-implant but cannot take it out again until they hit 50 SL / a higher level of SL / 100 SL (they have then proven themselfs or something).
This could be an extention to the LE to make it a true "correctional device".
That would provide a massive timesink to put people off abusing the LE.
This might slow down newbs from removing it too soon, and still allow people with crappy SL from in game accidents to correct their SL.
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 15:50
Reef's idea is good.
Btw, I honestly didn't think LE was a big deal. I will tell you what's lame though IMO.
I made a habit of attacking a particular clan I didn't like(They were kos anyways) at a particular hunting spot. I would wait for them to come sometimes or just go and look for them. Like 2 days later, their were a couple of them there unclanned and with LE. :rolleyes:
And of course, one of them was talking smack behind the safety of his LE. And of course a few days later these people are back in-clan.
BAH
the most annoying thing in the world... LE spies.. and we cant do anything about em.
Op war at jeriko, we ran to defend...we won, then before the next wave an LE droner came in and looked around, counted us..
nothign we could do.
ReefSmoker
19-09-03, 16:09
Don't give me credit for the idea, I stole the idea from The Realm ! Maybe 30 days is a bit harsh, but it certainly stops people abusing the pvp switch in The Realm... 24 hours is far too short, a week seems to be a good compromise.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
Mighty Max
19-09-03, 16:12
As a LE defender, that 7days delay till reimplanting/reexplanting
seems to be fair, got my support.
1 problem is the PPU buffs. only LE users can rez and buff LE users and vice-versa.
the reason I dont wear an LE is because i like to help ppl by rezzing them/healing them while hunting. and i need that head slot.
personally, i dont like PvP outside of OP wars/roleplay. and when i say roleplay, i dont mean the ganking 'red=dead' attitude.
flame me for being a carebare if you want. i dont give a shit.
i was killed a few times when i was a younger runner with the lame 'roleplay' excuse, and i would have left the game if i didnt know ppl who played.
imo, you can only use roleplay as an reason for PK'ing when:
1) They are in enemy territory AND have had a warning
2) Player run events (ie HQ raid)
3) Storyline dictates you to do it (CA attack CS on site etc)
ganking ppl coz you were bored and you wanted to 'roleplay' is stupid. u wanna go round killing n00bs, play CS.
I agree with Reefie's solution, but i also like Cypher_Psy idea too. the other LE 'bugs' need to be sorted as well.
I am sorry to have caused so much trouble. I am curtious to people while they are trying to lvl and I do recall not barreling your pits and going to the next room even. I never spoke to you in a harsh mannor and you never spoke to me in english. I admitt that i did barrel in your direction to kill mobs but that is only because you had moved into a room in which i was already hunting in and I knew (because of the LE) that I could not hurt you. I knew that you were just messing with me and that you could speak english thats why I saw that my only option was to go take my le out. I actually didn't expect you to have not reset the underground city in the 20 minutes it took me at least to return. You were being rude to me and that is fine in an RP manor, people can choose to play the game however they want. All I wanted to do was lvl in peace I am sorry that I was killing too fast. I do not beleive that I exploited in any way, I only removed the LE because I saw no other option. Next time you see me and you feel I am "stealing your kills" please talk to me and you will find I am very reasonable.
How 'bout.. if you have negative SL you can't imp the LE...
If someone would go on a mad killing spree he'd just have to run around with neg SL for a while.
Risking to lose that valuable weapon.
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