View Full Version : Should spies get DEX based armor?
Tanks get a large selection of strength-based armor which give good energy and fire resists. Monks have much lower CON than tanks and this is compensated for by giving them their own selection of PSI-based armor that gives EVEN MORE resists than the tank armor.
According to this logic, it seems that spies should get DEX based armor than gives EVEN MORE resists than the PSI armor to compensate for spies having the lowest CON in the game.
KK seems to think that the INT-based belts are a spy's solution to resists but they don't help that much and naturally you can only use one at a time. Also, since monks can use these belts it simply makes a monk’s resists even better.
I think spies need to get their own selection of dexterity-based armor. I also think they need to get rid of the INT based belts and simply treat belts like any other category of armor. The monks already have high-level psi-based belts so they need to add high-level DEX and strength-based belts.
Ray
no
spys should get pa but not dex based armour, this would not only makes spys better but would make pes alot better, we dont need non pa based dex armour, if you cant sort a resist setup out go tank
Heraclitus
18-09-03, 22:00
What you;re asking is to add a plus to a system that already has one plus and one minus. Spies do crazy damage at crazy ranges, plus. Spies can't take too many hits, minus. There are already a nice selection of int-bdased belts and with the forthcoming-beefing up of the dex-based spy PA, I really see nothing to complain about. I really really don't want to see virtual tanks running around with RoGs in their hands.
Spies are not a combat class, so no.
Originally posted by Maarten
Spies are not a combat class, so no.
Time to put on the inq armor...
I at least think spies should be able to wear inq/duranit 1 without having to drug or gimp ourselves.
I would agree with lethys on that one.
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 22:28
The order of defense should be
PPU
TANK
PE
SPY
APU
At the moment though(gets ready for flames) the MESSED up order is
PPU
TANK/PE
APU
SPY
That needs to be fixed.
So yes give spies dex based armor. Why can't a spy with all his genius create armor to commadate his weak strength? Spies should be as powerful as psi monks IMO, just in a technological way.
its
in order of fighting
apu
pe
tank
spy
pe, pedending on the skill , pes are better in duels than tanks
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 22:34
Originally posted by Ste-X
its
in order of fighting
apu
pe
tank
spy
pe, pedending on the skill , pes are better in duels than tanks
huh?
What's in order of fighting? I'm talking about defense. :confused: :confused: :confused:
Whitestuff
18-09-03, 22:39
I think spies are a viable fighting class since we have the highest DEX, we theoretically can do the highest amount of DMG with P-C and R-C. However our CON is low enought that PvP mostly gets us laughed at. I propose that we get some kind of armor, whether it be DEX based or we can use inq/durant 1 without drugs. At most we can use a Battlevest 3 or the NCPD powerarmor (which is good, but you have to be in CA to use it). The BV 3 is just a bit too low not only for PvP, but even high lvl mobs. Granted things like stealth and INT based belts help, but they aren't enough to compensate for our low STR.
I agree with Lethys. I say lower Reqs on the duranium 1 set of armor and that will improve the armor situation to where it needs to be. Also the adition of Spy PA is Awesome, but I would have liked to have seen some force and pierce resist on it with less X-ray. Now we have to take off our BV 3 (which gives the highest FRC and PRC resist( and in return we get...... a bunch of X-ray. Good for WB freezer blasts, but remeber KK, you gave WBs ROCKETS too. :p
well the guy said spys arnt a combat class
:P so
for defence its
ppu
pe
tank
spy
imho
Spectra260
18-09-03, 22:46
lol...i like how people are putting tanks on almost the bottem of the list...
tanks have best resist and most con...they have the best defence (except a PPU) then PE's, and actually i think that spy's are capable of having a better defence than APU's because they can put more STR points into resist force, and also they can stealth away to hide...PLUS they can heal themselves.
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 22:51
Spies can only have better defense if they drugzerz. Better than an apu i mean.
I've fought tons of pes and I would have to say I consider them to have tank defense or sometimes better. That's pretty stupid btw. But anyways that's just my opinion.
Perhaps tanks should get a bigger health boot.
pe's have better defences
tanks can have better resists
pes = shelter and can use psi shield
tanks = high con
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 22:56
Originally posted by Ste-X
pe's have better defences
tanks can have better resists
pes = shelter and can use psi shield
tanks = high con
hence them being equal IMO.
That's why I laugh when I hear pes use the excuse "wtf but we're joats" to try and mooch off every class. JOATS my ass.
2 type of joat
pe's they have higher max stats in every stat eg high psi than a spy , higher str/con ect
and there is the real joat
the spy
who can spec up for diffent tradeskills in int and dex
repair/poke/construction/research
my spy can construct all rares and ress T, tech parts
Originally posted by Maarten
Spies are not a combat class, so no.
true. them stealth tools and sniper rifles are made for scaring ppl away, not fighting. why they implemented ammo for the buggers is beyond me, why should they shoot, spies are not a combat class after all.
o_O read point 2 of my sig o_O
seriously though. i dont WANT dex based armor. why? because spy rules. with dex based armor, people would start whining and bitching about how overpowered a spy is, and he would get nerfed to hell. no thanks.
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 23:04
I remember the leader of my clan was a ppu, and when I met him he drove, poked, and repaired as well as PPU.
He was a joat to me. It seems like the PE is the only class unable to be an actual JOAT. :D :p
monks get their own PSI based armor, why not give similar to Spys?
Definetly a NO to DEX armor.
But I think the requirements on INQ-1/DUR-1 should be lowered by 3 STR to give esp. combat oriented spies easier access to these armor sets.
Originally posted by Mattimeo
monks get their own PSI based armor, why not give similar to Spys? read my post, thats why.
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 23:10
Tazo I fuckin love your sig, :D. ESPECIALLY #9.
Although I think spies can complain their underpowered.
Originally posted by Spectra260
lol...i like how people are putting tanks on almost the bottem of the list...
tanks have best resist and most con...they have the best defence (except a PPU) then PE's, and actually i think that spy's are capable of having a better defence than APU's because they can put more STR points into resist force, and also they can stealth away to hide...PLUS they can heal themselves.
These people are pretty much right with putting the tank low on the defence list. A PE can have a better defence then a tank, one just need to know how to setup a PE properly.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
He was a joat to me. It seems like the PE is the only class unable to be an actual JOAT. :D :p
Its because we have medium scores in all skills, so we don't have enough skill points to do anything more than one thing. Unless you are a pistol PE, then you can poke or hack. :D
a spy is only as good as the person seting them up and playing them
im not saying other classes are harder, just they are easyer to get a good combat setup in comparative to a spy
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 23:20
Originally posted by Judge
Its because we have medium scores in all skills, so we don't have enough skill points to do anything more than one thing. Unless you are a pistol PE, then you can poke or hack. :D
yea.
I always thought they should add certain h-c and apu rares around 90-100 str or psi.
Then they could make the PE CHOOSE what stats he wants to raise and the max any stat could go to is 80.
Then pes wuold have tons of variety.
Heraclitus
18-09-03, 23:24
The spy class is NOT BROKEN as a combat class. What is broken is that the engine is too dated to allow them the range advantage in PvP they deserve. This has been discussed before.
Originally posted by Heraclitus
The spy class is NOT BROKEN as a combat class. What is broken is that the engine is too dated to allow them the range advantage in PvP they deserve. This has been discussed before.
Actually it isnt even a question of the engine, that problem could be fixed by making aim spend not dependent on weapon range and then scalling the weapon ranges to the clipping plane.
from a belt a tank gets
4fir 5enr 4xry
from a chest
41fir or 40 enr
a spy gets
from belt
70 from fir,enr xry
and from chest
117xry
why shoudl you get better armour peices?
Originally posted by KimmyG
why shoudl you get better armour peices?
That is a very good question. I noticed that many combat spies are not satisfied with their force/pierce resists. I can't understand it, as spies and PEs are actually the only two classes who can cap their natural resists on these damage types pretty much without effort. Bones and armor on top of it gives pretty amazing resists against FRC/PRC. Maybe these players just lack the knowledge on how it works?
no way bad idea, this would benefit PEs more than it would spies, as it stands right now I have to majorly gimp my dex lvl to wear good armor...and thats good cause you cant really specialize in anything as a PE, I mean you can but theyre the "jack of all trades, master of none" char...i use move on and a STR backbone to use lvl 3 tank armors(which is quite nice) but at a cost to use lib(cause backbone takes away dex) i have to use a SA/SF & motoric 3 ....its a good tradeoff tho i like wearing lvl 3 armor and using a slightly gimped lib i think with lvl 3 armor i get like 165% on my arty lib and like 323 RoF not too bad considering I can take a hellish assbeating(and still stealth away if Im gettin raped)
so no I say nay to dex based armor just to keep from fucking up the balance of chars any worse than it already is
[edit] After actually reading this thread i came to realize that it is a bit of a bad idea, as it will be too much of a perk for the PE.
K i would like to say a few things. First off people saying spys arnt a fighting class..... YES THEY ARE! why do you think they put the first love in? A capped PE can barely use it on all drugs an dex imps. Spys are infiltraters and snipers. And i think they should get some dex armour. Not amazing. Not better then psi's. Somthing crossed between psi armour an str armour. Maybe lower. And it would pretty be the same as str armour exept add more to resists. Also pe's are ment to use stuff from all classes just not be amazing at anything. So i see no reason why they shouldent be able to use the dex armour aswell. Besides they could always make the dex armour req int aswell. Would limit the pe's from using the higher dex armour. Atleast thats my opinion.
Originally posted by iainy13
K i would like to say a few things. First off people saying spys arnt a fighting class..... YES THEY ARE! why do you think they put the first love in? A capped PE can barely use it on all drugs an dex imps. Spys are infiltraters and snipers. And i think they should get some dex armour. Not amazing. Not better then psi's. Somthing crossed between psi armour an str armour. Maybe lower. And it would pretty be the same as str armour exept add more to resists. Also pe's are ment to use stuff from all classes just not be amazing at anything. So i see no reason why they shouldent be able to use the dex armour aswell. Besides they could always make the dex armour req int aswell. Would limit the pe's from using the higher dex armour. Atleast thats my opinion.
Actually the only thing I can agree on in your post is that making a statement like spies are not a fighting class is plain wrong.
DEX based armor with resists between PSI and STR armor? From the balancing point of view this would be pure madness. As far as I am familiar with combat spy setups an armor like that would put spies' defense above PEs and tanks.
I really fail to see the need for uber armor for spies. Their way of combat just isnt the direct face2face fight and thatfor it should be viable only to certain degree.
I still think spies should get an easier access to level 1 armors, but that is it. This already would allow some new exciting combat spy setups where the spy could get a very decent defense without gimpage - with drugs an pretty impressive defense for a spy would be possible.
I wouldn’t mind seeing spies able to use the lowest level of the fire/energy armor again, but besides that I don't think they need much in the way of defense. KK just needs to find a way to allow them to be able to snipe. *shameless plug* Fix the clipping plane!
I just dont think they should have amazing armour becouse then there role would be more of an up close combat and i think it should stay as snipers an infiltraters. Besides if the armour was the best armour the spies would be as good as tanks combat wise and have more psi and have the ability to cloak.
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 02:33
Originally posted by Mantus
[edit] After actually reading this thread i came to realize that it is a bit of a bad idea, as it will be too much of a perk for the PE.
They could make it dex+int based. Make it so that dex+int based armor isn pretty much the same as any armor the PE can get up to 60-70 or so. Then you can put high level reqs like 85 int 85 dex for the armor, and spies will be the only ones to use it.
Originally posted by iainy13
I just dont think they should have amazing armour becouse then there role would be more of an up close combat and i think it should stay as snipers an infiltraters. Besides if the armour was the best armour the spies would be as good as tanks combat wise and have more psi and have the ability to cloak.
There's no need to exaggerate. ;)
No one is saying they should have the best defense, or blow away tanks, but they should have better defense than an apu.
Originally posted by Lucjan
I still think spies should get an easier access to level 1 armors, but that is it. This already would allow some new exciting combat spy setups where the spy could get a very decent defense without gimpage - with drugs an pretty impressive defense for a spy would be possible.
How about taking away some psi points so that they can't drug up for shelter?
Then you can give them 1337 armor. At the very LEAST spies should better defense than apus.
ZoneVortex
19-09-03, 02:42
the age old question, and no they should not.
if they do, it should be armor that adds to tradeskills :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Tazo I fuckin love your sig, :D. ESPECIALLY #9.
Thanks :) .... but
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Although I think spies can complain their underpowered.
...I think I speak for my silent hunter, my obliterator and myself when I say that we three don't feel underpowered at all.
ReefSmoker
19-09-03, 03:19
Duranit was introduced for spies, then spies lost 10 STR levels and it was out of our reach. By making duranit DEX based, it puts the armour back in the hands of the spy (as originally intended), PEs can still use it, so no loss to them, and everyone is happy. Except for anyone who might be worried that those non-combatant spies (rofl) might own them even more.
I'm still waiting for Reakktor to adjust the requirements for the various types of armour, they said they would reevaluate the requirements for all armour when they deducted 10 STR and 10 CON levels from spies. Would dearly love to see their proposed changes to armour requirements.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
Psyco Groupie
19-09-03, 03:34
the record player is broken again
no
Originally posted by ReefSmoker
Duranit was introduced for spies, then spies lost 10 STR levels and it was out of our reach. By making duranit DEX based, it puts the armour back in the hands of the spy (as originally intended), PEs can still use it, so no loss to them, and everyone is happy. Except for anyone who might be worried that those non-combatant spies (rofl) might own them even more.
I'm still waiting for Reakktor to adjust the requirements for the various types of armour, they said they would reevaluate the requirements for all armour when they deducted 10 STR and 10 CON levels from spies. Would dearly love to see their proposed changes to armour requirements.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
Yes but they added spy RAD suit wich really adds to one resist and with belts and lvl 1 armour it makes it to easy to capp out resist.
Originally posted by KimmyG
from a belt a tank gets
4fir 5enr 4xry
from a chest
41fir or 40 enr
a spy gets
from belt
70 from fir,enr xry
and from chest
117xry
why shoudl you get better armour peices?
This is kinda.. biased.
Tank can also get fire/enr resists from helmet, pants and boots, whereas the spy naturally cant, and the tank also has 60 more cons lvl's.
While I disagree with your way to explain it, I agree with the overall concept that you tried to explain here... read further.
I think like reefsmoker, and spies should be able to reach duranit/inq1 armors again naturally
I disagree with people saying that apu's have better defences than spies, or spies cannot have good resists (notice the word "can", and relate it with some sacrifices that spies shouldnt make in order to have decent/good resists).
Atm spies can sof-cap fire/enr/x-ray resists (not naturally), which is more than an apu can... and all of this with a good ammount of health.. again something that the apu lacks.
Over all of this, spies get stealth tools and long range (apu's range is in way to be nerfed).
Also spies can use basic heals and buffs, or even drug to use a shelter... I wish my apu could do all of this mmkay?
The spy can be a combat char perfectly; and excel over any other class with the same skill... but spies are not a duelist class (not by nature); this is where most people mistake the concept "combat".
There is a range issue.. to be fixed; and an armor requeriment out of place... that's all.
btw I voted yes, but not for dex armors (or dex/int to place it out of PE's reach), but because I'd want inq/duranit 1 again in spies hands.
To get something done, you need to vote yes.
a tank also cant get the xry resist from amour like a spy or high enr from the belt.
Tanks have uber con - and uber force resist.
For most spies force resist is non-existant and their con setup is comparitive crap.
tanks dont have uber resists they should
try balanceing out enr,fir and xry so u take low CS dmg
even if yea do a PE will still shame you dmg wise
and then try to get decent speeed and HP with that.
I think this would be a good idea, and it doesn't even need to be a very big armor boost. For instance, I would love an equivalent of the duranite 1 series in the 60's in dex and a duranite 2 equivalent in lower 90's of dex.
These armors would likely be of no interest to PE's, unless it is cost or weight. At the upper end of the scale, this would only mean that the spy gets to wear pants and a helmet a little better than before. Until near cap is reached though, they won't be quite as paper thin.
I do not disagree with you Kimmy, but the way you explained it.
The advantage of the tank, is having its resists naturally, without making sacrifices.
The spy, in lesser ammount, should have a way to get his resists naturally, without having to use mid level strenght implants which do not benefit the spy class at all.
Monks dont do it
Tanks dont do it
PE's dont do it
Spies shouldnt do it
I dont talk about the ammount of resists now, but the way to get them.
We have the master of dexterity, making sacrifices in his main skill and weapons to get decent armors/resists... hence the "can" with sacrifices.
No other class does this.
greendonkeyuk
19-09-03, 04:10
Originally posted by KimmyG
tanks dont have uber resists they should
try balanceing out enr,fir and xry so u take low CS dmg
even if yea do a PE will still shame you dmg wise
and then try to get decent speeed and HP with that.
is this the boy who cried nerf?
dude if u cant get all of that outta a tank (the class with the highest con in the game) then youre in the wrong game.......
Spies do have dex based armour comin guys. Its called power armour.
As Reefsmoker quite rightly said they need to bring the duranit one reqs back down slightly so that we spies can use it. Nothin else needs doing really.
Originally posted by greendonkeyuk
is this the boy who cried nerf?
dude if u cant get all of that outta a tank (the class with the highest con in the game) then youre in the wrong game.......
Spies do have dex based armour comin guys. Its called power armour.
As Reefsmoker quite rightly said they need to bring the duranit one reqs back down slightly so that we spies can use it. Nothin else needs doing really.
No I played a Tank now I play a PE cause they are better you want a simple answer tanks aren't that great. PE have more to them good Defence and good speed plus there dmg aint bad.
I'll agree they don't have uber resists, but they have a larger health pool than spies. Hands down.
Tanks have can have greater resists than spies, and much more health... spies advantanges are in other resources; like stealth, range, etc..
The idea is to reduce the sacrifice of spies to get the necessary resists.. or to balance it with other classes sacrifices.
Hence duranit/inq1.
ps: gah I am repeating myself too much.
durnit,inq is to much defence I dont think spys grasp how good there defence is if you give then lvl 1 armour they can have near PE reisit an tank dmg.
FL is just as good a CS cry all you want and say its weak or has bad aim to f**king bad. It is = to a CS maybe not in brute for but with aim range and decent run speed it has a hard bit to it as well.
PE resists are nice when you have a PE's health reserve.
For spies, they can't have decent health and decent resists, hence why they have defense belts and the rad armor.
Each class has its strong point and low point.
For spies its generally fire force/peirce damage.
No they shouldnt.. they had there armor they were suppose ot be able to use duranit1/2 and iNq1/2 but you guys wanted more dex so you lost your armor.. but now you guys want yoru armor and dex? that isnt fair now is it?
Crackitakk
19-09-03, 05:03
yes
this might be slightly off topic and may have even been discussed way before my time, but what exactly is this "spies lost 10 STR lvls cause they cried" what were spy caps before and why was STR taken away and not psi? I mean as it stands 20 is about the most worthless lvl cause its not like you can use shelter and about the only spells you would use on a normal basis would be boosters and heal and def ALL of which are under psi lvl 10....in my opinion from what Ive seen I would gladly give up 10 PSI lvls for another 10 STR lvls...but thats a whole different thread all together so Ill just shut up now......
Spies had 75 dex.. they wanted a 100 dex so they lost 10 STR and 10 constitution for there extra 25 DEX: ) now they want dex armor.... Spies are just greedy :)
ZoneVortex
19-09-03, 06:15
Originally posted by Kasumi
Spies had 75 dex.. they wanted a 100 dex so they lost 10 STR and 10 constitution for there extra 25 DEX: ) now they want dex armor.... Spies are just greedy :)
haha I remember those times. When they were basically PEs with lower psi and higher int :D
Ahhh I used to have a spy like that.
With his 50 str and 50 con and shitty dex heheh
Originally posted by Kasumi
Spies had 75 dex.. they wanted a 100 dex so they lost 10 STR and 10 constitution for there extra 25 DEX: ) now they want dex armor.... Spies are just greedy :)
EWWWWW!!!!!!!! so I take it all these super hi dex lvl weapons were like added afterwards....cant imagine a PE or a spy with 75 dex using a disruptor eh....yea thats a damn good tradeoff however I wish it had been -10 STR & -10 PSI and not -10 CON that extra 10 con lvls really could make all the difference man thats a good amount of extra resist right there........
I can't say i'd like a DEX based armors for spies i have to admit they'd be too MUCH, so i voted NO
( btw im a spy myself ) :eek:
BUT however they SHOULD be able to get the lvl 1 armors on without gimpage or drug abuse
PsycheBlade
19-09-03, 06:56
if KK are unwilling to adjust duranit and inquisition 1 armor requirements (whether it be change to dex or lower str reqs) then...
any adjustments to spy caps should be in tweaks, rather than +5str -5psi (or something similar), I'd much rather see +3str -1int -2con (I'd suggest psi but then one would have to choke down 2 drugs to use shelter) or some other similar change.
OTHERWISE
add say, int based helms and/or dex based pants; only 4 of either type both spread out amongst (blah sp) the respective main skill. Possibly the one around 50skill could be comparable to inq1/duranit1 armors (but not exactly the same numbers).
or if a line of dex armors is added, make them variable enough to each other so anyone (eg: all classes&all players) might find use in using a certain dex armor over their usual armor. InShort: make it so not everyone is using the same armors.
make sense? yay? nay?
Consider this: Wouldn't spies enjoy having better resists at lower lvls? Not everyone can wear heavy belts or the PA.
Originally posted by extract
EWWWWW!!!!!!!! so I take it all these super hi dex lvl weapons were like added afterwards....cant imagine a PE or a spy with 75 dex using a disruptor eh....yea thats a damn good tradeoff however I wish it had been -10 STR & -10 PSI and not -10 CON that extra 10 con lvls really could make all the difference man thats a good amount of extra resist right there........
The Disruptor was added later, but First Love was already in. IIRC all of the PEs bitched because they wanted to be the rifle masters. JOATs, but only when it suits them. :rolleyes:
Sinead O'Connor
19-09-03, 11:59
yes they should.
I liked DEX based Viperking.
I wonder would switching Viperking and Titan to DEX change anything except enabling spies to wear them?
Originally posted by Agent L
I liked DEX based Viperking.
I wonder would switching Viperking and Titan to DEX change anything except enabling spies to wear them?
Sounds cool as it wouldnt change anything for PE and Tank...most likely it wouldnt change anything for the Spy for PvP either, but it would for PvM. Actually an pretty safe change from the balancing point of view, at least I fail to see any problems with that.
I think all Duranit armor should be switched to a dex req (Duranium is better for tanks anyway so it won't really hurt them, and they can still use some Duranit).
Also the int req on light belts should be lowered so that tanks can use them.
The only problem there is that PEs would suddenly see their energy armor go up, and they have high enough defence already.
ReefSmoker
19-09-03, 14:42
Originally posted by Kasumi
Spies had 75 dex.. they wanted a 100 dex so they lost 10 STR and 10 constitution for there extra 25 DEX: ) now they want dex armor.... Spies are just greedy :)
Wrong, the majority of the whining was from gentanks who had their asses handed to them regularly. Before the level caps were changed for the spies, it was common to see spies kicking royal arse.
I know 3 spies who asked for 100 DEX, and I know many more who are still highly frustrated by a change we never asked for. Get your facts right please.
Take care,
ReefSmoker
PS we had 80, not 75 DEX - get your facts right please.
Originally posted by Scikar
Also the int req on light belts should be lowered so that tanks can use them.
The only problem there is that PEs would suddenly see their energy armor go up, and they have high enough defence already.
Access to Light Belts for tanks would be awesome.
I think KK should really keep armors STR based, but lower the reqs on level-1 armors by 3 or 6 STR to start with.
Level-1 armors are what spies really _need_ to make be combat spies and they should have easy access to these armors, not by running on drugs or by having to spend 3 imp slots for it.
Lowering the requirements of level-1 armors is the easiest change to make and not a big change. I think we all want to avoid big changes, these are always dangerous when it comes to balancing. Better 3 small steps then a big one, never underestimate the creativity of players when it comes to setup designs :-)
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 15:31
Originally posted by Scikar
JOATs, but only when it suits them. :rolleyes:
That's exactly how I feel.
all classes are combat classes.
just spys suck in close.
-10 psi on spys would suck
20 psi is the bomb :O
viper king and titian should be dex, then tanks/pe/spy could use it
OK fine give them dex armour via dur/inq 1
However change Spy PA to
PA1 - 35xry
PA2 - 42xry
PA3 - 48xry
PA4 - 55xry
You wanna compare your self to tanks and monks drink from there cup you only gotta worry about skilling 1 and 1/2 reisists.
Tank PA3 has 44for/44pir/40enr which are +128 armor resists.
Monk PA3 has 10for/10pir/50enr which are +70 armor resists.
Assuming that Tanks should have the best defence, and APU's the worst.. how come that in your suggestion spy PA3 has 55 x-ray, and therefore less defence than any other PA?
In my opinion the rad suit is ok, but if you want to lower it, then it should stay in a value of 100 x-ray for PA3.. mid value between apu monk and tank.
You start to sound like a despised tank, who went spy because wanted to be "uber", and realized that it's not possible, hence went to PE.
Try to re-read the posts in this thread if you dont understand something... I wasnt talking about ammount of resists in my last explanations, but the way to reach them without making an extreme gimpage in your skills... needing even the very top implants of your class to have success.
No one is drinking from each other cup, but everybody should share the cup of balance.
I never said anythign abiout frc/prc I was just talking about enr reissts. You get a lot from 2 peices of armour. more than any other class.
Other classes get for/pir/fire/enr and even x-ray in monk cases from other pieces of armors aswell.
monks dont get that much xry so they gotta drop a lot into resist xry spys really dont need to
Gulinborsti
19-09-03, 19:05
No way. DEX armor doesn't make any sense.
The Duranit armor should be adjusted so that Spies and PEs can wear it instead of introducing a DEX armor.
Sleawer got me an idea with his armor resist number comparement, here we go:
Non PA monk: ........ 425 points
PA3 monk: ........... 397 points
PA2/3 tank: ......... 363 points (381 with PA3 in the future)
Inq-1 combat spy: ... 365 points
Non combat spy: ..... 340 points
Non PA tank: ........ 335 points
The PA tank excels in points due to FRC/PRC resists, something a combat spy doesnt need that much as he can, like the private eye, reach the natural cap for FRC/PRC without any effort, something a tank cant really do without gimping his ofense. Where monk put their STR points into we all know too.
I somehow can't get rid of the feeling, people want to bring all classes to the defense level of the tank with their special skills or abilities (stealth, boosters, PSI etc. ) on top of it.
/EDIT: yes, tank armor is overrated, I sometime think people judge it by the look of the power armor like "huge and powerful, must be good" ;-)
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 19:43
Originally posted by Lucjan
I somehow can't get rid of the feeling, people want to bring all classes to the defense level of the tank with their special skills or abilities (stealth, boosters, PSI etc. ) on top of it.
You're right. Before I use to think to myself that apus should get much more health, but then I realized we already have resists close to a tank and if we get more health then it would be unfair to tanks.
Poor tanks.
SigmaDraconis
19-09-03, 19:55
hmm DEX based armour with more protection then Psi or Tank armours..HEEEEEYLLOO PE-a-cron ;D
Spy armour is fine..i think they should be the gadget gods..nto the 'almost as good as PE in defense and much better in offense gods'
Id say dropt he dura/inq 1 into the spies reach...but then that opens up to even better armour when they gimp themselves with drugs/imps..so no
take the TC off the snipers tho ;)
oh BTW...35 PSI for a PE helps alot in the armour field..what makes u think 35 DEX isnt gonna help a monk in the same way o.0
btw SD monks resists dont come close to tanks..no matter what setup you use..but the armour more then makes up for it :P ok with a haz3 they r close..nm ;D
I think one of the following should be done to slightly increases spies defense:
1. Drop Inq/Duranit 1 reqs down to the same as Battle 3 reqs
or
2. Reduce Shelter reqs so spies can use it.
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 20:06
Originally posted by Lethys
2. Reduce Shelter reqs so spies can use it.
[pistol pe]OMFG NERF WTF WHY CAN'T WE GET ANYTHING FOR OURSELVES FFS WHINE WHINE[/pistol pe]
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
btw SD monks resists dont come close to tanks..no matter what setup you use..but the armour more then makes up for it :P ok with a haz3 they r close..nm ;D
I was including armor..................
SigmaDraconis
19-09-03, 20:20
ah well..armour is not resists.and resists arent armour..and hell most the armour doesnt even show its true value..so meh :P
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 20:23
Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
ah well..armour is not resists.and resists arent armour..and hell most the armour doesnt even show its true value..so meh :P
Well I was including both, natural resists and armor resists.
ffs
lol
darkservent
20-09-03, 00:41
OK look at it this way guys spies SHOULD get DEX armour but to balance things out keep the spy weak against frc/prc dmg - which they are already. so in order for that to happen DEX armour shouldnt get any frc resist or prc like most armours do now. To actually say spies cant have DEX armour cause there greedy or they got alot of good shit already is a load of bull, wot the hell is a FL or ROG for then, there goddamn close range weapons. And no FL is not comparable to CS, u now why cause the dmg on rifles is completly fubered and KK are changin rifle completly to match the dmg to the TL of the weapon. If spies cant get defence then FL is goddamn useless. Honostly ppl think abt it, all we need as a class to be fully complete. Monks got there completness, Now its time to tweak the tanks and PEs. I have been cryin for Dex armour for along time now and alot of ppl have agreed with me and not just spies.
backin up on TL issues have a look at ROG. me my self have been usin that more latly on pvp u now why because its dmg its crazily mad and IMO better than FL, take that in consideration and look at the TL of ROG and FL. U should now get wot im sayin - that they are a bit messed up on that arnt they. So for now dont look at dmg on rifles cause it dont mean shit tiull KK have done wots needed.
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