A thread that should be Seen & Heard

[Spectra260]

You can view the thread by Clicking Here. (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75831)

Kidwithstick made a post about some problems in NC that could be resolved to make the game a lot better. The thread was soon closed and no one could reply their opinions. Rather then wait for doy thinking these problems will be sorted out why not discuss about them and let our voice be heard. If you wanted to reply to kids thread then this is the place to do it. Hopfully this does not get closed too as it is a good thread to post the goods and bads of this game and get fixed.

[Gotterdammerung]

The thread in question is a good-bye thread and as per the rules, good-bye threads are closed.

[KidWithStick]

Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
The thread in question is a good-bye thread and as per the rules, good-bye threads are closed.


lol...if you read the whole thing you would see i said its not so much as a 'im leaving' thread as it is a 'help KK' thread, and i asked for it to stay open so it could get a good disscussion going.

but anyways...

[Marx]

It was a good thread with valid points.

5 stars.

[Mantus]

Ineed it was a good post [edit - for poor gramar and bitching]

Anyways its still worth a read by KK.

[KidWithStick]

Originally posted by Mantus
Ineed it was post. Too bad you made it into a leaving/bitching thread.

Anyways its still worth a read by KK.

yea...i bitched alot in that thread.:rolleyes:

[Benjie]

Why was that thread closed? You could have left out the bit about you leaving and it would still be an excelent thread. It would just have made less sence. I vote _that_ thread 5 stars by voting this thread 5 stars.

Appologies to mods, i just think it's a very good thread with some valid points.

[KidWithStick]

yea...TBH i dont think the mod read my whole post, at then end i explained it wasnt a leaving thread yet.

[QuantumDelta]

Answer -
Discuss it's points brought up here.
Or...
Have it unclosed with mind to debate the points made.

[JiNxY]

i gotta say i prefered neocron when we didnt have so many monks.
and i believe its monks that are making me log on less and less each week. theyre just too damn vital. you HAVE to have a PPU, and you HAVE to have an APU to kill a PPU (of course it can be done without, so dont bitch at me ok, we all know APU's do the most dmg) so therefore theyre both the most powerfull classes to play.

i liked it when tanks were the main class, and isnt that how it should be????
they are your standard fighting unit, if we look at a clan like an army, you could have lots of tanks, 2 or 3 snipers, some PE's/spies mixed in with the tanks giving it all they got!, and a few monks for _Support_

as myself and many others have said, this is now monkocron, something really should be done. And people are putting forward suggestions.
something must be wrong when the numbers of support role chars are higher than the other classes surely?

anyway yeh. im sure kid and alot of the other people that have left will come back, after all, it IS a good game.

[Original monk]

I read kid's thread very well, altough i dont agree with the parashock, i do agree with like every other point he states, for example the genreprules and the so called rares wich arent rare at all but a necessity in PvPing, yust because like evryone else is usin em, so yeah up the droprate again, and get rid of these lame as genreprules, from my whole evning playing i am walking like half of it, i hate vehicules cause there buggy with me and this isnt an adventure game isnt it -> gimme back my GENREPS, now i cant go anywhere cause the most places i level are still occupied by our dear enemy's... i think that by now like 90% of the oldskool people have left, some came back but the most ones are leavin, i play this game for over a year non stop every day now, and actually KK youre making a big MESS out off it, with all them stupid noobrules tellin us what to do (genreprules) i would really want it to go back cause the way it is now :/ im payin for this whole game im not paying to play in plaza 1 and if i wonna go to some OP i can walk like 8 zones, thats everytime ya die 8 zones, im sorry people but its obvious the devs dont play there own game cause otherwise they wouldnt put in those shitrules.

edit: and place some real hi level content in the game (1 commander wont do o_O )
and up the regular raredrop, let aggresors drop gatlingpistols again and put a warbot in OZ storage 8, also remove the mc5 noob area (its scares away noobs) and if a wb doesnt give you a part it has to give a implantpart J or K, like the old days
WE NEED A REAL GAME, not a copy of neocron with loads of lame rules suposed to "balance" the server, start balancing classes first, tanks need to be the most powerfull (simple as that) and we need new weapons, storebought weapons of extremely hi level and new rares fo tanks alot of new rares (and some other dropsystem cause the partzpool is big enough allready, 2 big that is) and lots more of other stuff.
Ow yeah and fix the patches, a noobie that plays this for the first time cant use the patchcenter decently with all them bugged patches, i bet 2/3 off all people buying this game cant even patch it decently... they have to let it run like 8 hours so it auto-updates itself and thats messed up...

KK read Kid's thread and think, think about the future, then read it again and think again and again ...

[jernau]

I'm always sorry to see any of the community leave but as has been said - you'll be back soon enough.:)

On the points you raised I'd comment thus :

Fun (GRs) : I find this annoying at times too but I support it 100%. I think it's made OP wars more interesting, has added more realism to the system and has encouraged people to use vehicles again. All of these things are good IMO. The only real downside is access to hunting grounds which can be a serious problem for new people who don't know the game and all the hunting spots. For more experienced players, those in clans and those with mates that will help them there are no shortage of ways round it.

Fun (Tech Parts) : I disagree. I hated the old drop-rate.

PvP (PPUs) : I'm not too sure on this one. I don't hang out in PP, get into duels, etc. The only PvP I intentionally get involved in is OP fights and defending newbs/hunting grounds. In both these cases I'd say PPUs have had no negative effect and that in many ways they've made it more fun. I think this comes down to play-style. The way I play they are ideally suited as they are now.

PvP (Rares) : Doesn't that contradict the Tech Part thing above? IMO rare gathering is a clan/group activity now. You can do it solo but it's less fun and less productive. KK want to force team-play, something I don't agree with if it kills off the ability to solo completely. Again this one's a play-style issue. If you want to play solo it's going to be hard work now.

KK Communication : 200% agree. They are destroying a great game more through apathy than anything else. Very few of the problems and fuck-ups over the last year were so bad that they couldn't have been smoothed over by a closer and more open relationship with the community. The way KK are behaving these days is quite frankly a disgrace.

[Lucjan]

Kid pretty much got the vital point that are a problem now and make people leave. Yes, people are leaving like crazy and not many new people are comming in or old players returning.
I can see it every day in the huge clan Im in. People's accounts are still active, but they just dont log in anymore.

PvP - it is the core of this game, NC is a RPG too, but almost everything in it is driven by combat. On top of that, PvP is pretty much the only thing that is left when you're capped. And you hear it left and right, PPU's influence is still too huge, Holy Paralisis needs to go or need a rework and so on. Look at Pepper Park fights, people tend to leave when a PPU arrives: there is something wrong. OP fights are even worst: it wins the side with more monks. So for many people PvP isnt anymore what it was and due to this they have actually nothing to do anymore. Some still stick to it as their clan needs them, some just leave. That can't be. Balance is everything in a highly PvP oriented game.

GR rules are another story, actually a point where disagree with Kid as I like the new rules, they allow us to have some sort of impact on the world of NC by our actions.

Forced teamplay is also a critical point. Many if not most players I know in NC from Beta got hooked up on NC because they could play on their own, something many others MMORPGs are lacking and only the new MMORPGs comming soon will feature. Now these people are forced to teamwork. Don't get me wrong here, teamwork is great, but forced teamwork isn't...and forced teamwork with 150 people on the server is pure madness.
I think it is forced teamwork what makes people say beta was so much better.

Rares...they are really rare now. Maybe they should be. But they for sure are a requirement for high level PvP. But you don't hear much about this topic compared to other problems, because most people playing this game been here since early retail and they already have their rares. People tend to cry out only when a problem affects them personally. But rares are a problem. If you want to see the problem, just make a new char on a server you never or rarely played on. Now try to get your rare without cross server item exchange...

There has been a dozen of good ideas how to solve the rare problem without increasing the droprate to still have the rares rare, but new players able to compete in PvP, but they got ignored. The moment DoY comes out and if KKs finds a good players and we get new players in, the rare problem will be a huge one and will make many of these new people leave...but working ahead to prevent problems has never been KK's strong side.

[Yalson]

Originally posted by jernau

PvP (Rares) : Doesn't that contradict the Tech Part thing above? IMO rare gathering is a clan/group activity now. You can do it solo but it's less fun and less productive. KK want to force team-play, something I don't agree with if it kills off the ability to solo completely. Again this one's a play-style issue. If you want to play solo it's going to be hard work now.

[/B]

don't know about you but I find that hunting with my clan results in getting very few tech parts - no matter how many grims or whatever we've slaughtered. If I'm hunting solo I get more drops (or so it seems)

[jernau]

Originally posted by Yalson
don't know about you but I find that hunting with my clan results in getting very few tech parts - no matter how many grims or whatever we've slaughtered. If I'm hunting solo I get more drops (or so it seems)

I haven't really noticed that tbh. I seem to get about the same ratio of kills : parts solo and teamed but in a team we can kill at a much quicker rate.

[icarium]

GR rules - yes they are annoying i literally find it annoying EVERY time i log on and cant get somewhere either to level or bcause i died trying to tag another genrep. which brings me to another point, it used to be an adventure to go across the wilderness tagging GR's , not anymore because whats the point? if you tag a gr its v unlikely you'll be able to gr to it anyway, i have logged off and gone to play BF1942 before now bcoz i got so annoyed at trying to get gr's with a new character, zoning next to a WB or something, dying and thinking "its ok i have that genrep its only 2 zones away WTF!!! i am in my apartment FFS" *log off* . i think the sentiment BEHIND the GR changes was good, but clans need more incentive to open GR's or the rules need changing.

Rare weapons - All characters who been playing a while have lots of rares, new players dont and find it v difficult now to get them. rares are ESSENTIAL for op wars / PVP, the only exception being blacksun. Instead of people crying "nerf the blacksun" we should be crying out for other weapons to be IMPROVED the blacksun is fine as it is. to me the situation with rares should be this *fighting at op war everyone using good "normal" weapons, no swirlies in sight, suddenly someone pulls a swirly and its a rare sight and something to be feared* currently every op war EVERYONE has a swirly, that to me isnt the definition of rare. so i say BOOST SHOP BOUGHT HIGH TL WEAPONS TO MAKE THEM VIABLE PVP or increase the drop rate so everyone can compete in op wars.

KK seem to be trying to make it more difficult to level, which makes sense in that they assume people will take longer to level so will pay longer (assuming they dont get bored first) yet it seems they are trying to make the focus of the game team based combat (op wars etc) for which you NEED rares and have to be either capped or a high level, to me it doesnt make any sense. Still atm i am having a decent amount of fun, mainly because i found a good clan, but the game must be incredibly offputting for new players :confused:

if you read this far down, thanks :)

[Selendor]

Undecided about the KK not being involved thing. Sure they don't post here, but they have been reading because we've seen changes in the patches.

Drop rate? Seems fine to me, if you can hunt warbots you can get rare parts. I know that sometimes you'll go an evening and only get one or two, but other times you can end up with 10 plus.

Rares too important - HELL YES. Rares should be bragging weapon not a critical weapon. If you plot the damage curve for Damage/TL it is completely the wrong way around. Going up from a tl80 weapon to a tl90 rare should give you only a tiny increase in damage. People need to be able to compete with weapons they can afford to lose, we would see so much more fighting if this was the case. And of course, the other effect of levelling the weapons is that you could afford to put points into other skills instead of having to totally spec for one type of fighting. Now, I understand that the damage weapons do is being re-done, so perhaps this will change.

Imagine this, you level up to midlevel and cap the damage on a mid level weapon. This allows you to stand a good chance in any fight. You can keep levelling for points, and these you can spend on other skills such as a tradeskill, or driving, or better transport etc etc. Oh look, suddenly you have a varied character who can do more than one thing when you log on.

Hmm. that was a random rant. I'll stop now.

[Wannabe]

Anyone remember when you had about 400+ people online on Pluto when you logged in? Now we have less than 100 people on Pluto. Everyone's moved to Saturn I'd say? Why? 4 player slots is the reason.

I found out last night when I was doing the NeXT epic mission, that the bug I reported about half a year ago hasn't *still* been fixed. I'm not going to describe the bug here as it can be exploited via a stupid and careless GM.

We would need to have a bunch of GMs from different timezones that are online so there'd be someone from the GMs online at ALL time so these unfixed bugs could be brought to their attention and they would FINALLY be fixed.

Anyway, what's the deal with the 100+ missing scripts from NPCs etc? I occasionally delete the error.log file to see if anything is fixed but.. they same errors are there.

Well.. still waiting for the DoY to come out. Already quit once as it was promised and hyped and then never came.

Perhaps someone should sue KK for making promises to paying customers but never delivering the 'merchandise' the customers are paying for :p

// Wannabe

[Spectra260]

Anyone remember when you had about 400+ people online on Pluto when you logged in? Now we have less than 100 people on Pluto. Everyone's moved to Saturn I'd say? Why? 4 player slots is the reason.


i remember when there was 700+ players on pluto.


and some of them went to saturn for the 4 char slot and more population....but the majority just stopped playing the game

[Mr Friendly]

the result of a major increase in ppus & apus was easily the kill of hybrids

get a few GMs, go in game, & ull find no more than prolly 2 hybrids. that nerf was TOO big, imo, its made the pis class boring......u either go this way or that way.....no mix in between

[Devils Thrill]

Originally posted by KidWithStick
lol...if you read the whole thing you would see i said its not so much as a 'im leaving' thread as it is a 'help KK' thread, and i asked for it to stay open so it could get a good disscussion going.

but anyways...

i still cant find the part of the fourm rules that says a leaving thread is a violation or has to be closed?
unless you consider it to be spam ...

there are lots of other thins i cant find in the fourm rules
they need to amend the rules !

[Spectra260]

Originally posted by Devils Thrill
i still cant find the part of the fourm rules that says a leaving thread is a violation or has to be closed?
unless you consider it to be spam ...

there are lots of other thins i cant find in the fourm rules
they need to amend the rules !


i forgot what mod it was, but it was like odin or someone, when the "im leaving" threads first started poping up around the nerf patches he said that from now on they will be closed. i think he said the reasons were because

A) it turns new players who are reading the forum away to see all these leaving threads

B) alot of the time it caused flameage between people...

however kid's post wasnt really like that, he was just trying to help improve the game for the future players...and if he ever comes back he might have a better time if the things got changed

[Shadow Dancer]

I have a problem with one of the reasons some people defend the new GR system. Some of them say "wtf if you wanna keep the gr open then take the op yourself and fight for it". That's stupid and unrealistic. I'm gonna take a f*ing op everytime I wanna level?



"hey guys I wanna level at blah blah. What? Oh. Hrmm, do we have ppu? No ppu? Any hackers? Only 2? etc..." Too much damn time and trouble. 99% of the time the idiot clans close the GR down anyways. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


And we didn't get more asgs or GRs like promised ffs.

[icarium]

yeah we need more none op GR's ASAP

[Spectra260]

what i dont understand is people are saying that being able to lock GR's is good for OP wars.

ooook... how is that? because the attacking clan is going to have to run 1-3 sectors?

the only thing thats great about the new GR's is that the owning clan goes to there basement with no SI. thats cool yes. honostly...locking the GR's has nothing to do with an OP fight. if your clan cant get a decent amount of players into the basement within 5-10 mins of the first hack/turret destroyed then you dont deserve the OP.

[Devils Thrill]

Originally posted by Spectra260
i forgot what mod it was, but it was like odin or someone, when the "im leaving" threads first started poping up around the nerf patches he said that from now on they will be closed. i think he said the reasons were because

A) it turns new players who are reading the forum away to see all these leaving threads

B) alot of the time it caused flameage between people...

however kid's post wasnt really like that, he was just trying to help improve the game for the future players...and if he ever comes back he might have a better time if the things got changed


that makes it sound like they are embarrassed that they cant satisfy customers, its a cover-up :eek:
new customers cant handle the truth ?

but there are other unwritten rules to, which piss ppl off, me.
they should copy and past the rule that was broken, instead of giveing a rude comment like "pointless discussion over"
or "thread closed"
its hard to copy and past things that dont exist

they may get less abuse if they become more detached from the fourms ?