View Full Version : Personal feelings about Neocron and Reakktor and Callash..
This is by no means trying to attack Reakktor or neocorn..or callash.. these are my own personal opinions. I was talking with a friend about NC..
Since retail ther ehave promised a storyline.. there is no storyline.. neocronicle.. is not a storyline.. its just something there writeing.. and if you conisder it one than i guess thats that.. but its not.. theres barely any events.. for every neocronicle they could have an event but dont.. theres always a chance for an event in the neocronicle.. ANyone remember granite? He had a storyline it was good.. people felt involved.. it was fun..Barukamin? and Callash arent doing that.. or didnt do that.. Barukamin did his story throught he neocrniucle.. which isnt any fun.. Callash is worried more about content than he is a story.. even NEMA theres a chance for a big event.. but no never.. yes there are some events in teh NEMA.. but the big ones that have to do with teh story arent there.. Since retail i have beeen in no events except the beach party.. which had nothing to do with the storyline (what storyline).. And if there are vents.. there at pooor times.. or they just dont happen on every server.. the NEXT Auction never happenedon pluto.. most people i know have said this... The war with DOY.. wheres this war at?? A bunch of STORM Units spawed in a single zone isnt a war.. I want to see a story.. but i guess that wont be ahppening.. You can barely RP.. because theres nothing to RP to.. I have seen First person shooters with a better storline than NC.. Like i told my friend.. the neocronicle doesnt cut it.. this isnt a Pen and Paper RPG.. I blame both Reakktor and Callash on this.. they both care more about content than anything...I could careless about new PAs.. or new guns.. or new rares.. IWANT A STORY... IF its because of the GMs are volunteers than Reakktor should pay GMs.. *look at Venus server* *its the best server there is in nC just wish i could speak french* if they cant than they shouldnt of made Neocron.. Neocron is over a year old and it has no story...
Than theres the issue of alot things have yet to be fixed..
OUtzone 7 Factory.. closed.. and still buggged..
Einstein.. Zargerus both bugged.. still not fixed. since retail..
Underground city.. no its not fixed.. the queen doesnt spawn unless a GM does it... Gaia mines is VEYR buggy.. you crash alot there.. Gaia Mine C has nothing there...
Reakktor is being lazy about a few things or just dont care..
1.If they cant pay GMs.. than thye shoukdnt of made an MMORPG..
2.If they refuse to make a story than they shouldnt of made Neocron..
3.If there going to just add content.. than they should of made an FPS not and MMORPG..
4.If Reakktor doesnt have the resources to handle any of these things.. they shouldnt of made Neocron or an MMORPG..
I know Reakktor is a small company.. but i have worked for just as small companys.. and i have also help create games so i know how frustrateing it can get.. but all those things above should be done.. if not than Reakktor should not have made an MMORPG..
P.S Please dont close this thread.. this is by no means of attacking callash.. Reakktor.. or anyone else.. this is my own personal opinion..
Kasumi...
Edit: Also my friends said that maybe people want content.. well i had to say is that when all the RPers and people who want a storyline are gone than Reakktor will know where they went wrong...
Originally posted by Kasumi
I could careless about new PAs.. or new guns.. or new rares.. IWANT A STORY...
Ya know, in the time it took to write this rant you could've wrote your own storyline.
Also, that 'Volunteer' thing under Callash's name does mean a lot. As in he puts up with people's whining and personal attacks (like being called lazy, 'cause he is probably working his real job) and doesn't get paid for it. Reakktor provides a service, you chose to pay for that service. If you don't like that service you can leave at any time. Thank you and have a great day :)
Lucky Sparks
17-09-03, 11:40
damn .. someones a lil unhappy ..
actually most points agreed but we have to be realistic and shit happens .. its not a perfect world.
kk is doing there best .. i would like to see everything working now but they are over there heads allready =( truth is we are still playing a beta compared to other mmorpg's.
but ......
kk has put a game out that is unlike any other ... and it is a ton of fun .. so i personally will wait till some of the upcoming patches.
Dont get me wrong ... i also wish some of the bugs are fixed espically some of the shitty ones like op bugs or how about fixing the faction representitives can actually be doing anything .. or how about clan wars working correctly
the game shouldnt have been released with out clan wars working imho
.. or the crappy database errors where things are lost or change into something else.
either way they are trying .. mabey it will get better ..
but my god kk we need more players soon .. this is getting boring .. too small comminuity and all euro .. kk needs to market to the usa. ok thats my 2 cents.
Its easy to sit here and say, 'Hey you are no good', 'you dont pay'. Instead of being part of the problem. Throw a little more thought and come with solutions. Post them in brain sport, then we see if they come through.
KKis a company , and as all companies they want to make money, and will invest where they will be able to make money.
Not paying mods....I am sure mods do get free access, accounts and some perks. Mebbe they do look after them in other ways, its not for me to guess. Mebbe Mods are well, happy to be mods, except when spineless little toads start flamming (I am not talking about you, but about how forum mods and GM's are sometimes treated). Then in a perfect world we would find fualt with perfrction
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 11:49
Callash is a volunteer??????
So you ask for story line right...
Than theres the issue of alot things have yet to be fixed..
OUtzone 7 Factory.. closed.. and still buggged..
Einstein.. Zargerus both bugged.. still not fixed. since retail..
Underground city.. no its not fixed.. the queen doesnt spawn unless a GM does it... Gaia mines is VEYR buggy.. you crash alot there.. Gaia Mine C has nothing there...
Yet their your point's for the argument, They mt friend, are fucking bug's. Callash can not fix them as the coder(s? :p) would have to fix that, Anything Callash does has to be passed through them to see if its acceptable and can be implemented fully.
The reason the GM's are not paid is because they are volunteers :rolleyes: The reason forum mods are not paid is because they are volunteers :rolleyes: The reason they can not pay them is because they are like a 12 man company or something like that. AFAIK CoDi does the bulk of the game code himself (may be wrong there) but cmon man for fucks sake stop whining, dont like the game or how its run ? try SW:G then or some other game o_O
I have awe for the NC coder's, I _know_ its not the most technically amazing game, i know theres bug's, i know theres better lookin graphics out there, but, this game rocks, the content may be a little thin, but hey, make your own. The small team who made NC is dwarfed by those that worked on SW:G DAoC AO Etc etc, yet theyve done as good a job as them, and IMO NC is better than those (havent played DAoC tho but it doesent appeal to meh)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Callash is a volunteer??????
All Reakktor employees have a Stormbot title and avatar. You see one on him? ;)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Callash is a volunteer??????
Callash
Neocron Storyline & Content Development
Voluntary Helper, ReaKKtor.com
"This is an Event. Here are your Baseball Bats."
And Fenyx is right... there are all these games that have thrown money and manpower into trying to develop something that Reakktor has achieved simply by having the will to make a game people enjoy. Big business money and corporate strategery(tm) can't make up for that.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 11:55
PAY CALLASH! :p
Where's my lupus thread.......
Syntax-Error
17-09-03, 11:56
Ill point out just 1 or 2
The queen DOSE spawn but randomly
VERY few MMORPGS pay there GMs. UO one of the most sucessful MMORPGS never payed there
Also there is a storyline u just have to look for it
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
So you ask for story line right...
Yet their your point's for the argument, They mt friend, are fucking bug's. Callash can not fix them as the coder(s? :p) would have to fix that, Anything Callash does has to be passed through them to see if its acceptable and can be implemented fully.
The reason the GM's are not paid is because they are volunteers :rolleyes: The reason forum mods are not paid is because they are volunteers :rolleyes: The reason they can not pay them is because they are like a 12 man company or something like that. AFAIK CoDi does the bulk of the game code himself (may be wrong there) but cmon man for fucks sake stop whining, dont like the game or how its run ? try SW:G then or some other game o_O
I have awe for the NC coder's, I _know_ its not the most technically amazing game, i know theres bug's, i know theres better lookin graphics out there, but, this game rocks, the content may be a little thin, but hey, make your own. The small team who made NC is dwarfed by those that worked on SW:G DAoC AO Etc etc, yet theyve done as good a job as them, and IMO NC is better than those (havent played DAoC tho but it doesent appeal to meh)
You prove my point for me.. if Reakktor cant handle an MMORPG they shouldnbt of made it.. I posted this because i dont want to see this game die.. this is a great game REakktor created.. but they dont do anything with it.. yes bugs need to be fixed.. but there need sot be a story to keep epople going.. as well as content.. right now all we get is content.. no story.. if you want to prove me wrong feel free too.. I will come back with a stronger reply though..
And Fenyx is right... there are all these games that have thrown money and manpower into trying to develop something that Reakktor has achieved simply by having the will to make a game people enjoy. Big business money and corporate strategery(tm) can't make up for that. Nothing beats a piad GM.. there nothing mroe motivating than money... and sine they are volunteers there should be a good story.. but like i said.. no one tries to make a story.. every neocronicle there cna be an event... i would also like to see some of these "scripted events" that were mentioned -_-*
Edit:
Originally posted by d3ik
Ya know, in the time it took to write this rant you could've wrote your own storyline.
Also, that 'Volunteer' thing under Callash's name does mean a lot. As in he puts up with people's whining and personal attacks (like being called lazy, 'cause he is probably working his real job) and doesn't get paid for it. Reakktor provides a service, you chose to pay for that service. If you don't like that service you can leave at any time. Thank you and have a great day :)
I probably could have.. and all Callash cares abotu so far i have seen is Content.. prove to me where he has done anything with teh story for some of us???
dont agree with most of his rant but we are lacking certain things that would help
fixed bugged zones.
fixxed bugged npc`s
and some storyline based events would be nice these live runs if they ever get going will be most handy and would improve things alot.
granites larent story line was still the best i think everyone was involved with that
I am a female not a male...
Edit: The live runs do sound like they will be fun.. but do they have anything in common with the main storyline?
Syntax-Error
17-09-03, 12:07
if Reakktor cant handle an MMORPG they shouldnbt of made it
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - trolling ]
This is a discussion threat dont tell me to shutup or attack me please.. this is my own opinions if you want to discuss them thats fine.. but dont attack me..
maybe try to be more patient DoY is a big thing and neocron is already highest rated mmorpg on mmorpg.com i mean its gets even better with DoY and i dont have anything to complain bout Kk theyre doing there best and im confident that DoY will make a lot of ppl happy im willin to wait for that... cuz look what we alrady have, enough to entertain us till DoY
i think DoY first and than the Nema project and stuff anywayz DoY brings a little story in it too so you could say theyre working on the storyline
Originally posted by Kasumi
I am a female not a male...
Edit: The live runs do sound like they will be fun.. but do they have anything in common with the main storyline?
in theory they should give away and expand upon the story line and stuff suggested within the neocronial etc
so you`ll see TG attacking CA convoys outta their TH base etc
or bd attacking tsu in pp
or perhaps running supplies to the city admin frontline after picking them up at millitary base
thats if they ever get started
Originally posted by Kasumi
I probably could have.. and all Callash cares abotu so far i have seen is Content.. prove to me where he has done anything with teh story for some of us???
At the risk of repeating myself:
Callash
Neocron Storyline & Content Development
Voluntary Helper, ReaKKtor.com
"This is an Event. Here are your Baseball Bats."
That's kind of his... uh... TITLE.
So, yes. You are correct. He is doing his job as prescribed by Reakktor. That bastard!!
On storyline... he is one man. His job is storyline and content development. He's working his ass of on the PA's right now for content development, so let's not crucify him for not letting you prance around at an RP event, okay?
[Edit] - Oh, just thought of something... wasn't it last week a bunch of CityAdmin guys started blasting away all the TG in Plaza 1? And then a bunch of TG guys came in to settle the score? Isn't that an event and doesn't that relate to the storyline...
I wont tell him how to do his job.. but in my opnion his problem is that ALL he cares about is content.. hes wroking hardon the new PAs? So what.. I want a story not some armor that barely anyone will wear.. Callash need sto get his priorities straight.. and stop worrying abotu PAs.. you never saw granite careing so much about content... guess i shouldnt compare the two either.. -_-*
I've come to a revelation, Kasumi. The problem that you face is that you are not looking at things from an objective point of view. You're looking at it from an "i want" standpoint. You have to realize that what you want isn't necessarily what the player base wants. Yes, he is working hard on Power Armors right now because a good majority of us (by reading the PA post you can come to that conclusion) want Power Armor. You want a storyline and RP events, but what you have to realize is that those things are not a priority for many in this game. Occasionally you have to set aside your personal wants for what the community wants, that is the spirit of a MMORPG.
d3ik like said.. if there isnt a balance of both one of the two sides are going to leave.. and i doubt 20% of athe player base posts here so yea.. so if all people want is new guns/pistols/armor whatever than the people who want a storyline are going to leave...
switchback
17-09-03, 12:28
1.If they cant pay GMs.. than thye shoukdnt of made an MMORPG..
2.If they refuse to make a story than they shouldnt of made Neocron..
3.If there going to just add content.. than they should of made an FPS not and MMORPG..
4.If Reakktor doesnt have the resources to handle any of these things.. they shouldnt of made Neocron or an MMORPG..
i think you have contradicted your self a couple of times with this. Surely if your going to add content, then your making it more mmorpg rather than just a fps
What i mean by content.. is like new weapons.. and stuff.. what do you get when you update an FPS game? more wepaons.. a few bug fixs.. some new maps.. O_o
Edit: If they add new content i would like to see some new RP elements.. added as well but you dont see that happening do you?
Richard Slade
17-09-03, 12:35
So let's make this DAMN simple instead of just going on and on..
This is for you mods to take up with KK and consider:
Why not hire (ask people to work for free yes, but "hire" is a good word) people for the sole purpose of doing events and storyline?
Myself would be more than willing to help up with planning and handling events although I'm not the greatest at doing a serious story.
I think you should ask around and find some people who can do that and just that.
Wouldn't it be quite a simple solution?
Yes it woul dbe a simple solution.. but with alot of work needed.. i would like it to happen if possible -_-*
Originally posted by Kasumi
there nothing mroe motivating than money...
wow, i for one wouldnt agree with that....
Originally posted by Kasumi
What i mean by content.. is like new weapons.. and stuff.. what do you get when you update an FPS game? more wepaons.. a few bug fixs.. some new maps.. O_o
Kas, this is a FPS MMORPG. It's aimed at 2 market's and IMO they have got away with that, It has alot of FPS elements, and alot of RPG elements, its the players that 'make' the game at the end of the day, Player run events seriously own GM run 'spawn' events. However I was involved in one of the player run's on Pluto run by SnowCrash and that was great to be involved in.
The new weapons that are released and new armour etc do not just pop up out of thin air, theres story behind them o_O or is that not what your after, when you look at neocron as a mmoRPG do you see it as some linear storyline that you go through ? Theres no endgame other than PVP, it's quick to cap a char out and PVP is all there is then other than the odd rp encounter. No offence but the GM's _shouldnt_ have to spoon feed everything. Theres been events and still is events that are great. Fight night's, The Desert Race, Treasure Hunt etc etc, plus im sure some other servers have had these player run events aswell.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
theres story behind them o_O
Yes but wouldnt you want to be part of that story? Like when the mutants attack the TT convoy wouldnt of wanted ot be part ofthat? all the GM events that would be great are just skipped and wrote about.. your right player events.. but the only one i have seen lately is Fightnight and i could careless abotu PvP..
Originally posted by Kasumi
Yes but wouldnt you want to be part of that story? Like when the mutants attack the TT convoy wouldnt of wanted ot be part ofthat? all the GM events that would be great are just skipped and wrote about.. your right player events.. but the only one i have seen lately is Fightnight and i could careless abotu PvP..
ok ok ok look at it this way OK. KK has limited resources, live with it, thats why they have voulenteer GM's. Most of these do help desk call's helping people out, like customer services really. Then theres the event GM team (or whatever their called now :p) they sort out the event's. However the way you put it is damn difficult to implement. Theres 4 servers that KK have direct control off, yet really they have no controll at all. The server's are all different. BioTech might be power full on one server, but have 0 runners on another. They cant have a single set story line because of this, each server is it's own and would require it's own changing story line. Making the event team deal with it this way would be a absolute nightmare which is why theres a ''rough'' storyline with lots of background, plus spawn events and some other little bits ingame like the spawn at TH with the CA guards. but thats about it. The rest of each server run's it.
Kasumi you do have a point but you are being narrow-minded. Most people would rather have DoY added, and new weapons and armor to collect, they want content, there have been numerous threads about it. They see the storyline as a bonus on top of that, but primarily they want DoY.
Also the storyline has never had a chance to really take off. Granite's Larent storyline was going well until he left. Burakumin's storyline didn't really get going, and now Callash has had to start all over again. At the same time the community is demanding major changes, first with hybrids, now parashocks, not to mention wanting Spy and PE PA.
On top of that, when an event does take place ingame it is sometimes spoilt, but mostly what happens is after every single event a forum thread starts up about how much it sucked, lag was terrible, etc. etc. etc. Why should anyone bother with events if every time there's an event all the feedback is negative? Doesn't that suggest that people don't want events?
At the risk of repeatingmyself.. IF Reakktor cant handle an MMORPG they shouldnt of made one...
Kasumi you do have a point but you are being narrow-minded. Most people would rather have DoY added, and new weapons and armor to collect, they want content, there have been numerous threads about it. They see the storyline as a bonus on top of that, but primarily they want DoY.
Your right.. but you cant just play off of content alone.. atleast i cant.. without events/storyline its get boreing..DoY was suppose to come out at the middle of climax of the storyline.. but there isnt a story..
Originally posted by Kasumi
At the risk of repeatingmyself.. IF Reakktor cant handle an MMORPG they shouldnt of made one...
I don't understand what you're saying. That we just give up and scrap Neocron altogether because KK can't handle it? Where's the evidence for that? It's not a perfect MMORPG, and it should have a better storyline, but as long as people are still playing it I would say that shows KK can handle it.
EDIT: After Granite left and the storyline was in limbo, people learnt to make their own fun. The reason content is better is because players can actually do something with content. Events take place over a short timespan, with a fixed outcome, and not much freedom for the players. I for one prefer to be able to do what I want, rather than being forced into something.
then go play another game that has enough content for you :rolleyes: We make our own, im now running a CA clan, trying to get it on it's feet, but cmon man, you dont need it spoon fed to ya. I Hear offline game's like FFx etc are bursting with storyline o_O try one of those.
Originally posted by Kasumi
I am a female not a male...
@Scikar i mean that they shouldnt of even tried to make an MMORPG if there so strained for help.. if they cnat do things because they have to much to do..
@Fenyx you enjoy OP wars.. and everything and you probably known by teh community.,. unlike me, i dont know barely anyone.. most events are PvP Orientated.. I dont see the fun in PvP...
@ Kasumi
you state that "callash needs to get his priorities straight"
in my opinion they are "straight" more people would bitch if the PA was delayed further, 95% of people who play this game play it becuase of the FPS aspect of the game not the RP, personally i have never liked to RP.
You are one person calling for a storyline, (there are a few others who want it)
then you have the hundreds of players (spy's/Pe's) who want the PA, go figure who callash/kk will try to please first.
Have a nice day
Andy
Originally posted by Kasumi
@Scikar i mean that they shouldnt of even tried to make an MMORPG if there so strained for help.. if they cnat do things because they have to much to do..
@Fenyx you enjoy OP wars.. and everything and you probably known by teh community.,. unlike me, i dont know barely anyone.. most events are PvP Orientated.. I dont see the fun in PvP...
Ultimately whether or not there is a storyline is irrelevant. The only measures of a MMORPG's success are number of players, how long people play it, and how much money it makes. Neocron doesn't score too highly on 1 and 3, though it's still achieved a great considering the size of the dev team. They do struggle in some areas but I don't see why that means they should never have tried it? :confused:
Its agood they tried.. but they should of considering the limited amount of resources.. and such.. and an MMORPG takes alot of resources and things.. they dont have enough resources thats the problem..
Originally posted by Kasumi
Its agood they tried.. but they should of considering the limited amount of resources.. and such.. and an MMORPG takes alot of resources and things.. they dont have enough resources thats the problem..
I don't think KK ever thought it was going to be easy. They have always known a MMORPG was going to be hard work, and they were never going to have the resources of EA and others. Even if Neocron died tomorrow, I would say it was still a success overall.
I's there nobody else here that looks at what KK _HAVE_ Achieved with their resources and think to themselves ' Jesus theyve done a great job considering... '
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
I's there nobody else here that looks at what KK _HAVE_ Achieved with their resources and think to themselves ' Jesus theyve done a great job considering... '
Yes, and the thought then turns into "OMG NC would be so much better if KK had more resources!"
But you're right, a lot of people don't appreciate how much stuff has actually been done, and tend to focus on what hasn't.
I neer said i didnt appreciate it.. i know better than almost any9one here on the board about this kinds of things...
Sounds like pessimist trying to get a few trivial bugs fixed to make
him/her self happy.
As for the rest of the arguments, KK is in a slump right now. They
have a second chance with DoY and a decent publisher next time
around so we will see how things go.
I think if they get even 500 more runners to the game, they will
need to upgrade their servers which barely hold the bare minimum.
Keep on talking http://www.allfreeclipart.com/smiley/smile8.gif
Well ill write a story line for free, god dammit its gotta be better than nothing if KK or a gm is interested in me continuei8ng the sotory line i have no problem with that, and ill gladly put in the time for a 1-2 month story line or how ever long it takes for you guys to get thae new story line guy organised becuas he ob viosuly isnt doing anything grrrrrrrrr........... :mad: friggin pay me ill work my ass off dam u!!!
although i cant speak german but laods ofd moderators and gms do ;)
i have had several story line ideas that could incorperate events from different servers
for exsample
If TG fail to stop city based fastions from takeing an uplink then they will loose control of all there OP's as the city clans use it to hack there OP's
TG op's will then become clanless ready for anyone to take them.
If TG hold the op then the city clans loose all their OP's,
my actual idea is alot more developed than this and it involves a time limit to complete an iron ring of uplinks and multiple objectives.
I have serveral of these includeing a system of or OP leap frog takeing which have different effects on the outcome
for instance city admin may be asked to hold an OP from all commers but they get GM support in the guise of a stormbot/cop bot/elite copbot.
if they hold it for a certain amount of time they are rewarded with gratitude from the city admin couscil
for exsample a GM created rare item or 2 mill nc into the participant clans accounts.
Of course this will all be ina RP enviroment and these are main events after an escillation (cant spell lolz) of smaller events and naturall i have storys and abck ground information that will be posted so people have an idea of what they are getting into.
PAY MEH PAY MEH PAY MEH PAY MEH!!!!! :D
but of course i would need gm type privillages especially god mode so i can get things organised on the feild and keep the apce going (rezzing both sides ect...)
Im all excited now :cool:
LOL Cute Emoticon :) And yes you right FBI.. each planet could hold probably 500 people each.. and no its not me trying to get a few bugs fixed.. i could careless about bugs.. i want to see things done.. i want to see more events.. i want to see a storyline.. this is what my thread is about..
story line, dont care about bugs just want somthing other than shooting ppl to do
Originally posted by Kasumi
LOL Cute Emoticon :) And yes you right FBI.. each planet could hold probably 500 people each.. and no its not me trying to get a few bugs fixed.. i could careless about bugs.. i want to see things done.. i want to see more events.. i want to see a storyline.. this is what my thread is about..
I guess I could take back my pessimist reply then as I would also
like to see some things happening every now and then even
though i try to tell my self it's not nessacary it definately is for
the game to stay alive.
As for that emoteicon, i'm sick of finding the site for it so it's now
my temporary avator while I still get kicks from looking at it :)
Now that you have that as ur avatar you remind me of The One Ring0 for some reason o_O I cant even remember which one it reminds me off, it just does lol :lol:
Richard Slade
17-09-03, 14:12
Well now let ME set some things straight for all FPS maniacs out there:
If u want pure FPS, go play CS or wait for HL2 cuz this game is mentioned as a MMORPG and therefor it should be no matter of what views they use
Look at EQ for example. that's "FPS" for that matter, maybe not the S part but still FP
And since we DO have a story (somewhere) and it IS evolving,
it also makes the game a RPG, or as it is an MMORPG as stated before,
if u don't like it, get the f*ck out cuz it's built for Role Play.
There's a reason to why we can build, do quests, buy apartmens, and get drunk for example, and the reason aint cuz it's a FPS.
Granite and Callash need to get togethre and talk about a storyline.. and getting to going.. maybe callash should get help fromt he community i knows theres alot of people who would od this.. i would even help in soem way..
Edit: I wonder what callash thinks of what i have said O_o or Reakktor for this matter *cough*
Originally posted by Kasumi
Granite and Callash need to get togethre and talk about a storyline.. and getting to going.. maybe callash should get help fromt he community i knows theres alot of people who would od this.. i would even help in soem way..
Edit: I wonder what callash thinks of what i have said O_o or Reakktor for this matter *cough*
But Granite doesent work for them anymore :| Infact I doubt he'll be coming back either o_O
Yes i know fenyx.. but Callash could of got abunch of great ideas from granite.. i like callash.. but he needs to get this story line going.. or something not just with neocronicle...
Hmm I love NC - and usually play for 4 or so hours a day. (well it's beats the Telly) - but I agree with most of the points.
We need a story line. What I'm unclear about is whether not having professional GMs and a storyline backed with explicit events is a business decision or not. IF KK paid GMs to do events then there'd be more players and players would stick around. This in turn would generate more money. The question is what is the break even point.
What I'd like to know is if the company have done the analysis and decided that it isn't feasible or just aren't doing it.
John
Exaclty.. money = motivation = more events = more people = better game = a happier kasumi :)
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - I think that's a little inappropriate o_O ]
Umm Keep offtopic stuff out of my thread please...
I agree the lack of story is mildly irritating. But stop maknig content? No way, not yet. This game is getting on a high, once we have the new vehicles done and dusted, as well as everyone having PA then maybe re-prioritise. At the moment the content is what the majority want, even you want OZ7, Gaia mine etc so obviously you do want more content.
The storyline is a bit thin, but that is because they are having to stall for the sake of the DoY release that was meant to happen way aways ago.
That in mind, you do have a point, but Callash is not being lazy, he is probably one of the best volunteers I have seen, he interacts with us on a personal level, getting our opions and such. This man is our link to KK, he tells them what we think. As a result things have started moving heavily again, we got Psi PA, we are getting the spy PA that everyone wants, and PEs are getting PA (controversial points aside).
Be patient, it's not like nothing is happening, this game is evolving and is doing well to improve what the community sees as the most important things to improve. :)
If i said stop the content i didnt mean too.. but there needs to be a balance between story/content to keep both sides happy.. And i dont think Callash is being lazy hes just seem to be more into content than he does a story..
Storyline...
KK shouldnt go there in the first place. Maintaining a storyline on 4 servers is an unbelieveable amount of work for an entire GM team. The moment we would get "teh storyline", we would most likely start to call for it to change depanding on what happens on the particular server and for the storyline to carry these player influences...so 4 storylines in that if it should be done right.
I might be wrong, but I think we really dont need storyline as detailed as many people except it. Only the most major events in the world of Neocron should be part of the storyline and what happens else should be up to the players, but for that KK would need to rework several systems in game to be dynamic not static, like the faction system for example to start with.
Originally posted by hinch
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - I think that's a little inappropriate o_O ]
I thought that might happen. Hinch was actually referring to the game Dead or Alive, which features a female ninja named Kasumi, and among her outfit options are several different school uniforms. But to anyone who's never played the game it would have looked a little disturbing.
Originally posted by Lucjan
Storyline...
KK shouldnt go there in the first place. Maintaining a storyline on 4 servers is an unbelieveable amount of work for an entire GM team.I agree and i disagree. The structure of the game obviously is not linear enough to handle a real narrative; the game has no end. On the other hand, I would love to see some stronger plots/themes/action in-game (not in Neocronicle, not in NeMa) that would make me feel involved in a story, rather than participating in a shooting-gallery.
There is a fairly weak central story, i.e., the struggle to overthrow Lioon Reza, the conflict between City and non-City factions, however, detailing every little aspect of multiple stories probably is too hard a task to coordinate amongst the servers/planets. The Neocronicle and the NeMa are fine tools for conveying the story but it does sometimes seem absent from the game itself.
I find that too MANY "story" things are hard coded into the game. Why can't the player's decide to which factions they are hostile, neutral, or friendly? Is there any end to the factions' conflicts? How can the game-world change to reflect the stories created by player-clan interactions? I mean besides who owns what op...
I'd like to see more player-generated storylines. I think KK have given players great tactical and skills systems which can frame the player's actions... provide a frame that creates a story. Ugh, i'm missing my point.
Perhaps there needs to be a greater potential for conflict amongst the players. The game-world needs to evolve more to reflect the story.
Well, I think the only thing I know is that I don't have any answers ;) Can anyone cite some MMORPGs that have a REALLY good handle on infusing a narrative into a MMORPG?
Dude - this is a MMORPG
You're supposed to provide a bit of your own storyline to liven things up. I mean hell - name another MMO that goes as in depth as Neocron for events.
Dark Age of Camelot? No chance.
EverQuest? No Chance
UO? Maybe, back before the big AoS release.
You should be happy that you've gotten this much.
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 17:44
Marx, why should people settle for the bare minimum? How is that in anyway acceptable what so ever?
The longer we make excuses for KK and other companies, the longer they can continue putting out half assed bullshit and charge us an arm and a leg. The "oh they're small look at what they've accomplished" argument doesn't hold any water here. That is a bandage excuse fanbois use to explain everything from bugs to lack of storyline to the servers crashing, and its getting old. I've heard it too many times in too many games to even bother believing it anymore. SO what, they've done exactly what hundreds of other small companies have done, some have done it better, some haven't. What makes KK (and the rest) so special that they don't have to answer to their consumer base after so many fubars? Consumers speak with their wallet, and its obvious to anyone with an open mind what the Jurys decision on Neocron Pt. 1 is. Thanks for coming out, cya in Neo 2.
I do agree with Kasumi, if you can't handle all that a business entails, then you probably shouldn't be in that business (this coming from someone who's attempting to start his own). It's not easy, its not something for some rich playboy wannabe to dabble with and then pick up his ball and go home. It's a serious thing that requires years upon years of thankless work all for that one day when you can look at a Well Concieved, Well Executed, and Smoothe Running machine and say "Damn, I am good."
Richard Slade
17-09-03, 17:51
I couldn't agree more with black.. It's all about the last day...
Been in the theatre business as the producer and I tell you,
it's no fun to do since all you get is "When's that done, where's that, why isn't this fixed, can we get that, hurry we need this, meeting then" and so on and so on... But you gotta stay through it and work so damn hard to make it work... Just for the day of the release. When the public takes their seats, the lights go out and you get one helluvva play.
THAT is when you get your reward for the work.
And I tell you, KK aint even hired all the actors yet.
They even got a full script?
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 17:51
Daisoubu Kasumi-sama....
There is a storyline, though I admit, there has been no major events recently, if you look at all the previous major events, even when Granite was around, they never ever forwarded the storyline.
Granite pumped the Laurent storyline, that was his only real achievement, he teased us with it on the forums, that's a problem...there was very little he did other than that.
There are story lines happening, they're small bits of storyline from the players perspective, but they're there.
The Game Supervisors have it seems decided not to do anymore big events, simply because big events crash the server, which, isn't fun for anyone.
If Callash started to work towards a grand storyline that would push the timeline onward, I think he'd quickly find himself running out of storyline before DoY could arrive (dependin on the swiftness of the story).
We don't know what he has up his sleeve, but I know he's a good guy and I know that he'll have a suprise or two in store, there's more than one reason I can't wait for the next patch.
Actually it does hold water.
There is a storyline - the question is, will you involve yourself with it. If you do, then its RP heaven, when I was in FA pushing for war, its like everyday was a brand spanking new Neocronicle for me to enjoy.
You as a player, and as a runner determine your own level of involvement. No one can make you more or less involved.
Consumers speak with their wallet, and its obvious to anyone with an open mind what the Jurys decision on Neocron Pt. 1 is. Thanks for coming out, cya in Neo 2.
What, that more Neocron subscriptions are being purchased than cancelled?
I do agree with Kasumi, if you can't handle all that a business entails, then you probably shouldn't be in that business
They're doing a fine job, if you don't like the game thats your problem, not theirs. Like I said in another post, there are just as many people who play that have enough patience to bear with them.
its not something for some rich playboy wannabe to dabble with and then pick up his ball and go home
Read the Reakktor (http://reakktor.com/Company/company.html) history.
Richard Slade
17-09-03, 17:57
Still IMO that doesn't hold shit (read: water)
KK made a MMORPG, all types of RPGs needs a guide in the world and some thing that keeps it flowing on
You can't expect all players to take it all up on their own without supervision of a GM or such. It's as simple as that.
KK gave us this game
KK should also uphold our need to play!
ill orangise the events ive got 3-4 big events and 1 event that could be used across the servers ( different event on each server leading to a final event obviously i couldnt do it on venus or jupiter ;/ ) if callash or someone could tell me where to appy for temprory gm staus to get the events rolling it would be great, at least untill the story line restarts becuase we have litterally nothing to do :( except pvp hunt and OP's oh and a 3d chat room lolz whihc isnt enough really
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 17:59
No Marx, the online numbers now aren't even a shadow of what they used to be up until the Christmas debacle. That says something. It's not just ordinary churn, its people getting so fed up with a game they toss in the towel and say 'screw it'.
As for the numbers, there comes a point where a games population shrinks down to the die-hard fanbois, the desperate, and the vets who like it too much to quit. These people alone can keep a game crawling along for years (as is evidenced by many others). Any increase in new accounts appears to be dramatic, but with the way Neo is right now, they wont stay for long.
They'll stay:
If Mc5 doesn't make them quit immediately.
If they don't get bored whacking rats for a week.
If they don't run into one of Neo's infamous show stopper bugs.
If they don't have to rely on Helpdesk.
then they'll play for about 3-5 months, get bored, and quit.
Originally posted by Scikar
I thought that might happen. Hinch was actually referring to the game Dead or Alive, which features a female ninja named Kasumi, and among her outfit options are several different school uniforms. But to anyone who's never played the game it would have looked a little disturbing.
winnar
i was begining to think nobody had played the game
KK made a MMORPG, all types of RPGs needs a guide in the world and some thing that keeps it flowing on
Its called the faction histories, and a gun. Its your obligation to keep your faction healthy and strong while undermining that of your enemies.
You can't expect all players to take it all up on their own without supervision of a GM or such. It's as simple as that.
So what, you were happier back when GM events were GM's spawning a bazillion warbots in OZ station? Please. You want involvement, check out the live run thread and stfu.
KK should also uphold our need to play!
...
......
.........
............
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If you feel the need to play, its not a game for you anymore.
Originally posted by BlackPrince
No Marx, the online numbers now aren't even a shadow of what they used to be up until the Christmas debacle. That says something. It's not just ordinary churn, its people getting so fed up with a game they toss in the towel and say 'screw it'.
As for the numbers, there comes a point where a games population shrinks down to the die-hard fanbois, the desperate, and the vets who like it too much to quit. These people alone can keep a game crawling along for years (as is evidenced by many others). Any increase in new accounts appears to be dramatic, but with the way Neo is right now, they wont stay for long.
They'll stay:
If Mc5 doesn't make them quit immediately.
If they don't get bored whacking rats for a week.
If they don't run into one of Neo's infamous show stopper bugs.
If they don't have to rely on Helpdesk.
then they'll play for about 3-5 months, get bored, and quit.
yea however I seriously doubt you guys saying OHNOZ they do jack shite, charge an arm and a leg, have no storyline, dont know what they are doing and are just a bunch of rich playboy's having a laugh is _NOT_ exactly whaqt they want to hear.
think of it this way ok, and to satisfy you ill do it like a small roleplay o_O
Your son's just been playing football, but his team lost. he's feeling a bit low and you wanna cheer him up so that his spirits are higher and he's a bit happier. Do you...
A) Say that he was unlucky, and that they will win for sure next time
or..
B) Call him shite, take the piss out of all your son's mate's then slap your kid for being a big girl...
huh ? What do you seriously think KK are gonna do if the WHOLE community is calling them shit, flaming them for everything and generally being the worst kind of publicity a game would want, a complete community of asshole's. KK would just chuck it in and cut their losses...
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 18:12
Fenyx man, how long is long enough for them to get their act together? People have made excuses for them for every single screw up. I was forgiving of some, they were obviously teething problems, but big show stoppers are unexcusable. Examples: Forced specialization has done a helluva lot to kill off single char servers, the entire dev team taking a 'holiday' for a month just after releasing a patch that screwed up most of the game, blatant lies about when the download would be released, the status of DoY, and the denial of cheats/exploits and the lack of policing up the mess afterward.
If my son dropped the ball once, I'd say "its alright, we'll practice more." If he dropped the ball two, three, four, five times then told the people trying to help him to fuck off, then I'd kick him off the time myself.
Originally posted by BlackPrince
Fenyx man, how long is long enough for them to get their act together? People have made excuses for them for every single screw up. I was forgiving of some, they were obviously teething problems, but big show stoppers are unexcusable. Examples: Forced specialization has done a helluva lot to kill off single char servers, the entire dev team taking a 'holiday' for a month just after releasing a patch that screwed up most of the game, blatant lies about when the download would be released, the status of DoY, and the denial of cheats/exploits and the lack of policing up the mess afterward.
If my son dropped the ball once, I'd say "its alright, we'll practice more." If he dropped the ball two, three, four, five times then told the people trying to help him to fuck off, then I'd kick him off the time myself.
What's your point? That because youaren't happy, and there are some things in the game which need attention, KK should drop the whole thing? What exactly are you suggesting they do? There are many things which need to be done, DoY needs to be released to attract more players and keep current players happy, old bugs need fixing, the storyline can go on the backburner because DoY is going to keep a lot more people here than a few laggy events spread out at once every fortnight.
If you're not happy, don't pay for the game, cancel your account. Give constructive criticism and say why you left, what needs fixing. But what's the point in bringing up old points? The dev team took a holiday at a bad time. What does that matter now?
Originally posted by BlackPrince
Fenyx man, how long is long enough for them to get their act together? People have made excuses for them for every single screw up. I was forgiving of some, they were obviously teething problems, but big show stoppers are unexcusable. Examples: Forced specialization has done a helluva lot to kill off single char servers, the entire dev team taking a 'holiday' for a month just after releasing a patch that screwed up most of the game, blatant lies about when the download would be released, the status of DoY, and the denial of cheats/exploits and the lack of policing up the mess afterward.
If my son dropped the ball once, I'd say "its alright, we'll practice more." If he dropped the ball two, three, four, five times then told the people trying to help him to fuck off, then I'd kick him off the time myself.
people only ever notice the bad stuff and never the good stuff...
when was the last time you ever thought, 'holy hell they implemented this good' or 'damn that's a cool idea ' ?? nah people only ever go for 'oh my god this sucks, whats the point' or ' i coulda done better myself with my weekly pocket money and my grandads 486'
Thats all the comments you get on these forums, like the little white bit's inbetween the meat in a can of spam, that's all that these forums are...
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
when was the last time you ever thought, 'holy hell they implemented this good' or 'damn that's a cool idea ' ?? nah people only ever go for 'oh my god this sucks, whats the point' or ' i coulda done better myself with my weekly pocket money and my grandads 486'
implemented well:
epic runs now theyre bug fixxed are excellent.
% based monk spells depending on amount specilised in a skill
crystal caves
nc city layout and engine behaviour although not without its oddities isnt that bad.
new netcode isnt half as bad as the old stuff alot better.
implemented badly:
pretty much everything else.
mainly due to not enough thought going into things before doing it.
recent sl changes and epic run switching etc. which will be nigh on impossiable when doy finally comes.
still i love the game but there is nothing thats ever made me turn round and go WOW thats fking ace.
and i think im possiably one of the few people here to be able to comment on the actual technical side of things
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 18:24
Because its a precedent, and people have long memories. If they did it once, whats going to stop them from doing it again at another game critical moment?
What I'm bringing up is that maybe KK doesn't have the attitude, wherewithal, and fortitude to make a successful game. Neo will always be 'ok', but do they have what it takes to make it 'Great'? With each passing week the answer looks more and more to me and others like a resounding "No".
We've been told they'll release spy PA with the next retail patch. For all we know, the next retail patch is DoY. I know that whole thing about not telling dates, but considering spy PA was supposed to be released "within the next few weeks" months ago, its getting a little old and people are getting fed up with it. There is no excuse whatsoever why its taken as long as it has for Spy PA and other things.
Storyline was supposed to start back in November. Neochronicle is NOT a storyline, its an asset to the storyline. Storyline should be game critical events that are scripted only so far. Even player run events would be better with a little GM help. People have been making their own events for a year now, how much longer are we going to be depending on our own creative processes? It's not so bad, until the fact htat you think they really are meaningless and limited in scope.
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 18:28
There was a time when I thought "oh hey, thats cool".
I think the NC Subway is really neat, if poorly done. I think droning is one of the most original ideas in the game, once again being a droner showed me how poorly implemented it was. Vehicles, again more good ideas. Once again half assed implementation and near unsuable through bugs.
Some parts really are cool, Soliko for one. but man, the 'wow' factor wears off after a while and then all you do see are the bugs, as will everyone else.
Devils Grace
17-09-03, 18:30
have u guyz look to what some ppl say and to all the threads
u want hybrids nerfed, ppu nerfed, apu nerfed, tank run to fast with the CS, spys can stealth and i cant kill them, sniper boost, parashock its an offensive weapon, i want this u want that, liberator to powerfull, hmm damn so many stuff.........ahhhhh.............OZ buged, underground should be changed ahhhh...................... WE WANT DOY..................
for fucks sake we all are never happy while they are trying to give us DoY asap and we (me included) want so many stuff..............
as someone said its a small company.............
GIVE THEM A FUCKNG BREAK
voluntear doesnt mean they dont like what do, its actually the oposite, nio one stays in a place working without payment, listen to all our monbojambo, and also getin insults (yes once i did the same and i said sorry) and keep on doin it
and i play SWG........its a great game.........but neocron rules
ive already tought on givin up neocron but after 2 weeks playing SWG i went back to teh outlands pking ur sweet asses
to good to be missed
THIS GAME RULEZ
I could really care less about a storyline, what enevitably will happen is you'll get one, then complain about it being too short, or too long, then it'll be too long, or too short, in an everlasting cycle.
Originally posted by BlackPrince
Because its a precedent, and people have long memories. If they did it once, whats going to stop them from doing it again at another game critical moment?
What I'm bringing up is that maybe KK doesn't have the attitude, wherewithal, and fortitude to make a successful game. Neo will always be 'ok', but do they have what it takes to make it 'Great'? With each passing week the answer looks more and more to me and others like a resounding "No".
We've been told they'll release spy PA with the next retail patch. For all we know, the next retail patch is DoY. I know that whole thing about not telling dates, but considering spy PA was supposed to be released "within the next few weeks" months ago, its getting a little old and people are getting fed up with it. There is no excuse whatsoever why its taken as long as it has for Spy PA and other things.
Storyline was supposed to start back in November. Neochronicle is NOT a storyline, its an asset to the storyline. Storyline should be game critical events that are scripted only so far. Even player run events would be better with a little GM help. People have been making their own events for a year now, how much longer are we going to be depending on our own creative processes? It's not so bad, until the fact htat you think they really are meaningless and limited in scope.
:lol:
bware teh ide's of march and all that the great soothsayer is here and he say's neocron is dead.
ABANDON SHIP ABANDON SHIP its all over guys go home nothing to see here.
look ok, just give them a chance, DOY is coming however they have said their reasons for the delay. DOY is their chance for a PROPER re release, a PROPER chance to get some fking advertising in, a PROPER chance to get a new influx of players etc etc. so cmon, thats all legal shit ok, forget about DOY now.
At no point did i see them say the next few weeks for spy PA, they said over the next few patches from what I recall.
Another thing ok, you'll moan that they rushed their shit if they came out with weekly patches, yet what do you want? Stuff that's implemented without testing? Im pretty sure that DOY is being tested as we speak by 'insiders' with KK testing map's etc and any new additions.
Just trust in them OK, you never know, they may just pull it off, but, DOY _IS_ the last chance or else it's down hill from there. let them perfect DOY, change and tweak what they need to etc etc and get the extra players in and then you can bother with the storyline.
Helen Angilley
17-09-03, 18:38
How the fuck can people complain about the storyline (Note: There is one, it just isn't making itself obvious to you "I'm Uber Pee-Kay" tits) if they don't even Roleplay?
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 18:40
Psst..... I think you should check the new sticky + maybe chill off a bit for a lil while............... :P
by storyline im assuming they mean interactive storyline
where runners actions effect the balance of power and faction relations
where runner actions effect the outcome of the war.
ie: on jupiter doy could win the war but on pluto ca may win
where the actions and events of runners decide what happens in the neocronicle
not where the neocronicle tells a story and occationally we have to go find a single npc so he can be "rescued" or where the war rages on yet we dont see shit
rather than calling it story line it should be called "runner involvement and interaction"
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 18:43
At one point we were told (about 3-4 months ago I believe) that Spy PA would be released 'within the next few weeks'. Then all of a sudden they come out with monk PA and callash released 'new' stats for the Spy PA.
Ever heard of not putting all your eggs in one basket? Thats what KK is doing with DoY and I hate to say it, but the odds of it failing surpass those of it succeeding. And you're right, if DoY fails, Neo will die, maybe slowly, maybe quickly.
I've given them a year, how much more time do they deserve? Do you really believe in the darkest corners of your mind that KK will ever make Neo into the "great' game it could have been, and looked to be at the release of retail?
Even with a proper release, if KK keeps up their stellar record of customer satisfaction, communication, honesty, and integrity we'll be in the same boat we are now, just another year down the road.
As far as "proper advertising" goes, what makes you think they have any more money now than they did back at initial release? A publisher will not foot the entire bill to advertise a game thats already 'failed' once, or if they do, it won't be enough advertising to make a difference.
Sorry man, you can keep looking through your rose tinted goggles and insulting everyone doesn't see the game through the eyes of a fanboi, but that doesn't change the facts in the end.
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
How the fuck can people complain about the storyline (Note: There is one, it just isn't making itself obvious to you "I'm Uber Pee-Kay" tits) if they don't even Roleplay?
I love that...
you nkow, just because they cant see the storyline they are suddenly Pee-Kay tit's as you lovingly put it. Thing is in the whole of the thread which i doubt you even read is about THEM wanting the storyline and interaction. Does that sound like a ''Pee-Kay tit'' like you ?!?
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 18:47
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
How the fuck can people complain about the storyline (Note: There is one, it just isn't making itself obvious to you "I'm Uber Pee-Kay" tits) if they don't even Roleplay?
Oh dear sweet Helen, always bringing the intelligent point to the conversation. Just because some people enjoy fighting doesn't mean we like for it to be completely mindless and without base in a game. It feels good to know that you are fighting for a reason. It feels good to know that maybe taking this op, killing htis leader, grabbing that parcel will make a difference for your Faction.
Maybe you uber non-pk twits need to lighten up and pull your heads out of your asses and realize that not every PvPer has the mental faculties of a radish. Mindless fighting can only keep people occupied for so long, then it becomes stale, repetitive, and no fun (much like the PvP scene on Pluto).
Originally posted by BlackPrince
Sorry man, you can keep looking through your rose tinted goggles and insulting everyone doesn't see the game through the eyes of a fanboi, but that doesn't change the facts in the end.
I knew someone would boil it down to that :lol: :lol: man look, i have faith in KK that they will not completely fuck up DOY release, they are a freaking company for god's sake, it will shaft them to lose something like NC. They NEED the extra players and to get that they nee to get a decent release on DOY. who the fuck gives a shit about spy PA at the end of the day, you were whining for storyline earlier, then your whining about the fanboi's and now its the spy PA.
cant be arsed to play anymore because their not singing your tune then leave, it aint that hard, oh but thats right.. the shit stinking POS game that is neocron has you addicted... o_O !
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 18:56
I was wondering how long it'd take you to boil everything down to the "omg Im a fanboi lemme plug my ears and flame everyone who doesn't agree with me' argument.
Have you stopped to think that the lack of storyline, delayed release of items, and poor balancing are maybe the symptons of something more? I'm not 'bitching' about anything, I'm asking you to look beyond the 'its so fucking obvious its smacking you in the face' and delve into what the actual problem is. Just because KK is a company doesn't garuntee that they are good at making MMORPGs, doesn't garuntee that they will turn a profit, and sure as hell doesn't garuntee the future of Neo if DoY fails.
I'd take a good storyline over spy PA any day of the week. I'd run through hell and back to get a storyline where players can impact it and make a diffence.
Originally posted by BlackPrince
I was wondering how long it'd take you to boil everything down to the "omg Im a fanboi lemme plug my ears and flame everyone who doesn't agree with me' argument.
Have you stopped to think that the lack of storyline, delayed release of items, and poor balancing are maybe the symptons of something more? I'm not 'bitching' about anything, I'm asking you to look beyond the 'its so fucking obvious its smacking you in the face' and delve into what the actual problem is. Just because KK is a company doesn't garuntee that they are good at making MMORPGs, doesn't garuntee that they will turn a profit, and sure as hell doesn't garuntee the future of Neo if DoY fails.
I'd take a good storyline over spy PA any day of the week. I'd run through hell and back to get a storyline where players can impact it and make a diffence.
I'f im a fanbio why the hell have i been banned for flaming KK before, and for spamming forum's when KK fucked up on my char's before.
Look you dont know me, may think you do but you dont o_O i just really look at KK with awe, they have put ALOT of work into the game even tho theres always a tart that thinks they sit around all day long playing CS. we all joke about it but I doubt thats true, they have worked their little german nuts off for this game and I appreciate the effort they put into it as I get entertainment from the gam. It pisses me off at times yea but over all i enjoy it or I woulda quit when it was tedious and i stopped enjoying it.
Call me a fanbio if you seriously think it's gonna help you bring KK down etc or make them kick start a storyline instantly in the morning :lol:
I was wondering how long it'd take you to boil everything down to the "omg Im a fanboi lemme plug my ears and flame everyone who doesn't agree with me' argument.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
In responce to the original post.
Kasumi, first off bitching posts don’t get you anywhere. If you want to be productive and help the community then write a nice post full of your ideas instead of an attack on the company that brought us this great game that is disguised as advice.
Second, i don’t really think that you even know what you want. You ask for OZ_7 to be open, for Gaia Mine C to have something in it...how the hell does two more dungeons help you RP. Then you say that if NC has a war then we should actually see a war. So you want a zone where NC and DoY troops constantly fight? Sounds cool, sounds fun, but in the end how does it help you RP?
So you want more story? How much more of a story do you need? Everything in the game has a background. Missions arnt story, dungeons aren’t a story. Do you want to be lead around by the nose? Do you want to have no freedom in your actions, and have everything be dictated by the game story? , Well perhaps a multiplayer games isn’t right for you.
You want a story? Ask around for the resent history of the Dark clan on Pluto or the recent events in Twilight Guardian on Pluto. Those are real stories right there, created not by KK but by the players. If you want to get involved in the world of Neocron and truly role play then I suggest you write your own role. Because I for one prefer not to have mine written by some one else.
OMG this thread still going. shouldn't it have been closed at the start with the following reason.
"closed due to incitement to flame"
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 19:09
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
Call me a fanbio if you seriously think it's gonna help you bring KK down etc or make them kick start a storyline instantly in the morning :lol:
Man, if losing the majority of their playerbase hasn't convinced them of the need to kick off the storyline, nothing will.
I don't want to bring KK down, I'd like nothing more to see them succeed, but I'm speaking as a consumer here, not a player. As a consumer, KK has some severe issues which have been present since day 1 that they still haven't fixed, and probably won't. If these issues stay on the playing field up to and past DoY, it will result in the exact same thing happening then as it did last time.
As a player, KK made my dream come true with droning. One of the most awesome things i've seen, and when it worked, one of the most rewarding. Frustration sets in and people get tired of things not working, it happens to everyone. It takes a lot of guts to put your faith into someone who done nothing but screw you over time anda gain,a nd for that I respect you.
That said, I still don't think thing will be any different in 6 months than they are now, except maybe fewer people :P.
super-mad-ownage right there mantus.
:D
Couldn't agree with you more.
ive already said 2 times ill fucking write a story but you are all so thick headed you dont suggest helping me with the story line, GOD DAMMIT!!! to busy trying to look kewl as you flame each other FFS didnt u read QD's thread? ur digging yoursleves a whole u wont be able to get out of now just quit bitching and be creative rather than what ever the hell you lot are trying to do at the moment o_O
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 19:12
[edited for consistency]
Where have I said I didn't like the game? please, show me. Just because I'm pointing out severe faults with KK and the game that you can't seem to cope with has no reflection on whether or not I like the game.
Keep telling everyone who has an issue with the game to "Fuck off" and you'll be enjoying a single player mob hunt sooner than you think laddybuck.
Anyone who finds so many faults and feels like they've been so grievously clobbered in their gaming experience must either:
a.) not like the game.
b.) be a chronic whiner.
c.) be a hypocrite.
edit.
d.) be very impatient.
Dribble Joy
17-09-03, 19:20
With what KK has in the way of reasources, they've done, and continue to do a really good job. Do most people realise their dev team is like 15 people?
Things can't and won't happen overnight.
PA not story line? dunno what part of NC you've been in lately. (response to DoY threat is the official line)
The thread starter seams to think that as the whole thing is so utterly fucked up, we should all stop playing and go somewhere else, instead of trying to work with them lot upstairs to improve the situation.
This is a MMORPG not an FPS as has been stated OVER AND OVER.
YOU make the content as much, if not more than the dev team/Callash does.
As also said, If you really want to help, Make a thread about what you think are serious problems with the game and how you would combat them with what we have atm. Whining won't help.
From a newbie who stopped his account and than 2 weeks later re-activated it for some unknown reason, the easiest way I think to make the game more playable for the english servers would be to eliminate one of them and than you have twice the amount of players instead of having them spread over 2 servers...just a thought from a new player!!!!!
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
How the fuck can people complain about the storyline (Note: There is one, it just isn't making itself obvious to you "I'm Uber Pee-Kay" tits) if they don't even Roleplay?
I think perhaps you might want to read the thread again. The person who started it, and complained about the lack of storyline, went on to say she's not interested in PvP. You're flaming some "Uber Pee-Kay tits" who don't even take part in PvP, while those here who do PvP aren't really interested in a crap storyline which everyone will bitch about, and would prefer to see DoY come sooner.
I would Gladly put time in and volentiree but will i ever be appraoched and asked, hey want a chance to prove yaself as a gm, prob not
What I honestly don't understand....
Sure KK is a small company. It'd be accurate to say "very small" even. That's not an excuse in any way shape or form.
ONE coder. ONE. Could make all the necessary changes to the PA's and add the rest of the PA's in under a week. ONE.
ONE coder. ONE. Could fix the LE bug/exploit where AOE does damage in under a week. ONE.
ONE mapper. ONE. Could fix places like OZ7 and some of the other closed off places in under a week. ONE.
ONE GM. ONE. Could hold an event a week with very little prep time involved. ONE.
Shit, I know a few mod developers for other (FPS) games that do everything themselves. They code and balance all the weapons, armors, deployables, and then have time to play daily on top of it. Some of them even create entire new game types for said mod in their spare time. They often make custom maps and skins, and even play with the in-game sounds. ONE PERSON! And this is in addition to their normal jobs that they work every week! One I know administers a clan AND a league on top of all of that. FFS!
Now, granted, these games I'm referring to aren't as complex as Neocron, but there are areas of Neocron that don't need to be touched (they're ok, forget about them). There's no reason in my mind why KK, combined, couldn't tackle one major project a week. Like adding all the PA's, fixing OZ7, fixing the boss mob spawns in places like El Farid Underground, even things so fucking simple-stupid as moving the player spawn location to where it SHOULD be when you GR to El Farid Village so it doesn't put you 20 feet away from a DoY Scout bot when you GR in (sometimes). Shit, that would probably take 5 minutes + a patch.
(And Martin, if you read this, don't take it personally, it's just my observation. I might be wrong, but regardless, this is the state of KK as I've seen it since back in Beta 4).
Instead, they're working on what... DoY? No wonder they can't find a distributor. Yeah that's right the thing will never get released as it stands now, because no one wants to sign a contract with them after the shitty initial launch of Neocron (I blame CDV for that entirely). No one wants to sign a contract with them because the potential distributors want to see player feedback, so they come here and see us complaining about EVERYTHING and KK's "support" team rarely says anything. No one wants to sign a contract with them because KK has no (apparent) organized structure in place to deal with many facets of their own product. If I were a distributor, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. The only distributor that WILL want to take them on under the current situation, is a substandard one, worse than CDV.
But I still love this game and I don't fucking know why. It's a shame that (1) KK lacks in communication so badly that it gives the impression to MANY people that they don't know what they're doing, (2) KK doesn't have the ability to support it's own game, and (3) KK has employees that could get more things done if they were either better at what they do, or were more focused.
Sorry, I've always been blunt. I hate when people talk in generalities and don't get to the point.
The main reason I believe at the moment causing the delay with a new publisher is that KK want the free download(shareware), and publisher's dont want that, they want the game in store's so that they get the moolah.
lordofkhaoz
17-09-03, 23:09
the only thing that has changed since beta .. is rares and some other new stuff.. all the same problems that hindered Neocron's growth have not been addressed.. hell events were almost daily back in beta... how many of u can remember the armys attacking OZ station ?? hmm? those werre simple... but fun as hell.. dunno why a band of rogue warbots need a reason to attack NC.. they attack everyone as is.. why wouldnt they just wanna come and try to kill everyone ?
5 stars
Which ever mod edited Marx's post better edit the guy who quote'd it aswell, delete this post after.
[Yes, I have already taken care of that.]
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 23:23
I think KK does fine for it's small team. I just wish there was more and better communication between KK and TEH community.
I think a storyline would be great, but content is good too and i think we'll get both when DOY is released. Think of the possabilities, 2 waring mega cities each with there own technologies, people and politics. just keep you pants on and stop wasting the developers time whining about small bugs. after all, no matter how many updates a game has, there is always a bug somewhere.
Keep up the good work KK :angel:
BlackPrince
17-09-03, 23:51
LordKhaoz, tu as raison, but they don't want to hear it.
Whiety Bulger
18-09-03, 01:47
Callash is seckzy
Originally posted by Mantus
In responce to the original post.
Kasumi, first off bitching posts don’t get you anywhere. If you want to be productive and help the community then write a nice post full of your ideas instead of an attack on the company that brought us this great game that is disguised as advice.
Second, i don’t really think that you even know what you want. You ask for OZ_7 to be open, for Gaia Mine C to have something in it...how the hell does two more dungeons help you RP. Then you say that if NC has a war then we should actually see a war. So you want a zone where NC and DoY troops constantly fight? Sounds cool, sounds fun, but in the end how does it help you RP?
So you want more story? How much more of a story do you need? Everything in the game has a background. Missions arnt story, dungeons aren’t a story. Do you want to be lead around by the nose? Do you want to have no freedom in your actions, and have everything be dictated by the game story? , Well perhaps a multiplayer games isn’t right for you.
You want a story? Ask around for the resent history of the Dark clan on Pluto or the recent events in Twilight Guardian on Pluto. Those are real stories right there, created not by KK but by the players. If you want to get involved in the world of Neocron and truly role play then I suggest you write your own role. Because I for one prefer not to have mine written by some one else.
@First paragraph i am not doing what you speak.. this was an observation.. thats all..
@Second Paragraph.. It doesnt.. but it does help me stay longer.. since i hunt mobs purely.. and if i wanted i could make an RP event out of them.. I could easily make and RP event out of the two mobs constantly attacking each other.. but i would like to seem them scripted so somedays the DOY Troops are pushing back the STORM bots.. and somedays the STORM Units are pushing the ODY BOts back.. look at venus if you dont know what i mean.. something similiar to that..
@Yes theres background stories.. but are they upheld? are they of anby use? no one uses the background stories..how can you possibly do that? Factions have no meaning.. theres no reason to RP you faction basically..
@Fourth Paragrahp.. hrmm tobad i was part of the dark war.. to me that seemed more like people just being childish than anything.. but i wont get into that.. the Dark thing vs FA was fun.. but still wasnt what i am looking for that was PvP type thing.. i like things player create.. by why are they all PvP oriented? Like someone said.. why cant there be raids on the city? from Warbots.. or DOY troops.. or something? beta mutants attack FA.. EVERYONE helped clear them out.. includeing enemy factions...
Anyways to anyone else who says i am whining.. this is not a whine thread.. this my own observations and opinion..
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Daisoubu Kasumi-sama....
There is a storyline, though I admit, there has been no major events recently, if you look at all the previous major events, even when Granite was around, they never ever forwarded the storyline.
Granite pumped the Laurent storyline, that was his only real achievement, he teased us with it on the forums, that's a problem...there was very little he did other than that.
I resent that, I gave you rares from Larents that you will never see again. I gave you many events. Teasing was only the the process, I also gave you 'cause & effect' events from the storyline teasers.
*shrugs*
This game is an unfortunate tale of no back bone content. I gave it my best in my tenure with Reakktor. It is just unfortunate that some things had to end the way they did.
Granite
Exactly.. this is the kind of thing i want to see callash do.. hehe just wish things would of worked out fo rhte better with granite O_o
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 05:42
I would argue that rares are nice'n'all but not storyline.
The Laurent storyline in itself, was good, I was pretty pumped about it, I do wish it didn't bottom out, however, to the DoY Storyline, Laurents seemed to do nothing to forward the "world history of neocron."
That is the reason I picked this game up.
That is what I wanna see.
It's been 20 years (?) Since Neocron opened, since the timeline was brought up to date with real time.
(Neocron time of course) and not one major "world event" has happened.
No new TG, no Real DoY (No one's fault but hey), no change of faction alignments, no movements of things.
The most permanent new arrival and about the only thing that would go on the NC Timeline other than "small footnotes" is MC5s Appearance in the wastes.
Nothing of the tales of old, no strong new names.
The players can't effect things in the greater neocron world, which is the sad thing.
I am aware, you couldn't really offer this - my comment wasn't really trying to fault you for something that is hardly possible, but still, "side stories to pass the time" is not the reason I'm playing neocron -_-
I wanna see the battles Ceres saw.
I wanna fight the fights the tanks fought.
I wanna change that world, I want to effect it, I want to put a dent in Neocron, I want to push the CA out of THs area.
I want red little letters for CA instead of white.
Bleh...
Quantum how you can say the laurent story wasnt part of the storyline? for all you know it could of been.. remember it was not finished.. but like you posted.. most people want what you want.. I want to see things like that happen..
Oh, I'm starting to grasp your point Kasumi.
You want plots that involve you shooting at stuff?
lemme know if I'm completely wrong, though based on what you've posted I think I got you 'tween the eyes.
I want something like Granites laurent story.. or somehting like Quantam posted.. if thats what you mean by "You want plots that involve you shooting at stuff?" :)
Originally posted by Kasumi
Like someone said.. why cant there be raids on the city? from Warbots.. or DOY troops.. or something? beta mutants attack FA.. EVERYONE helped clear them out.. includeing enemy factions...
Ah there you go. Now thats good material. You see i got a bit pissed at your first post because it stated a general complain without any spesifics. Now you are actually telling people what you want. Thats important. I think it would be cool to have more events. Once a week or something. Also there should be a bloody hint to their time and a build up to them, so players dont miss them.
hehe sorry about that :) and your right mantus they need to do things like you posted..
mantus, they did that.
server problems ensued.
Hence why live runs are primarily the way they're gonna feed us content until more issues are resolved.
:(
Live Runs sround great.. but not every can participate at once.. thats the problem..
I want plots that we make. The world system should be set up so that the OPs owned and the attacks on places etcetera write a faction neocronicle, and change faction alliances.
I'd like factions to be given individual items that only they can buy. More so than now, items that are REALLY worth it. I think that each faction should have the grounds to be good on its own and good allied.
BOTTOM LINE?
I feel that factions should just be big clans, and this should have an effect on what NPCs spawn where, who they serve, and the stock market. It should also make auto events happen, like if an NC based clan were to take every OP in a straight line to TG then there is automatically a certain number of CA guards spawned at TG every 30 minutes. The same goes for outside of Neocron, and outzone, and the military base etc.
If you think I should write this up as a detailed idea please feel free to say. :)
CerealKiller
18-09-03, 16:27
Two things.
1. Have you ever written an MMORPG? This is their FIRST attempt, ask some of the vets about the beginnings of EQ, UO, AO, AC.... they ALL sucked when they first came out, EQ took awhile to catch on, and now has one of the biggest followings. They need time and experience to get it right, they are getting better, you just don't realize it.
2. I can't emphasize this enough, if you're going to flame, use spellcheck.
BlackPrince
18-09-03, 16:29
Originally posted by CerealKiller
Two things.
1. Have you ever written an MMORPG? This is their FIRST attempt, ask some of the vets about the beginnings of EQ, UO, AO, AC.... they ALL sucked when they first came out, EQ took awhile to catch on, and now has one of the biggest followings. They need time and experience to get it right, they are getting better, you just don't realize it.
2. I can't emphasize this enough, if you're going to flame, use spellcheck.
Unfortunately, when UO and EQ, and to a lesser extent AC, came out they were the only games in the market. Now there are scores of titles to choose from, some more successful than others. The 'its their first attempt' excuse doesn't cut it. They've been working on Neo for how long now? After a while, a competent dev team would start getting things done right, not make things worse.
CerealKiller
18-09-03, 16:36
This game has improved considerably since it's inception, and as far as EQ and UO go... take a look at them... have they changed since they started? Updated graphics and zones... that's about the gist of it. The companies that made EQ, UO and all of the other major MMORPGS had considerable amounts of money to dump behind it. I mean, shit, Sony? Do you THINK they could fuck that up? I don't... which is why EQ2 is coming out soon.
Maybe you don't realize the paramount difficulty behind programming a game like this, it's trying to be a First Person Shooter AND an RPG. Not an easy thing to program, and I'd love to see the people that run their mouths with this shit make their own FPS/MMORPG and make it golden in a year. KK has only been getting paid for this for about a year. So this hasn't exactly been a "cash cow" for them.
They are actively trying to make the community happy, I'd rather them push back the release of DoY. It means they are working on it. They want to make sure the transition to it is going to be smooth, they want to remove bugs and add content, and we're not even going to have to PAY for that hard work. When DoY comes out, that will be the true statement of where this game is going, KK realizes this and wants to make sure it's a step in the right direction, and not oblivion. So back the fuck off, and let them do their jobs.
Richard Slade
18-09-03, 16:41
Originally posted by Marx
Its called the faction histories, and a gun. Its your obligation to keep your faction healthy and strong while undermining that of your enemies.
Yeah but I dunn see no friggin' updates there either.
we take that op they take it back
they take another we take that and so on and so on
Originally posted by Marx
So what, you were happier back when GM events were GM's spawning a bazillion warbots in OZ station? Please. You want involvement, check out the live run thread and stfu.
I was DAMN much happier back then since atleast they where there
And I already appliad to the live run thread so why don't u just stfu
Originally posted by Marx
...
......
.........
............
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If you feel the need to play, its not a game for you anymore.
That is exactly what a game is, something you want to play
Something you urge for
Not just some damn thing u say "Hey maybe that could be fun for once"
Originally posted by CerealKiller
2. I can't emphasize this enough, if you're going to flame, use spellcheck.
Sorry about my spelling but i am not an american or an english speaking person..
Originally posted by CerealKiller
Maybe you don't realize the paramount difficulty behind programming a game like this, it's trying to be a First Person Shooter AND an RPG. Not an easy thing to program, and I'd love to see the people that run their mouths with this shit make their own FPS/MMORPG and make it golden in a year. KK has only been getting paid for this for about a year. So this hasn't exactly been a "cash cow" for them.
A: I know how the dificulty behind..:)
B: This isnt an excuse for there not being an story for people tobe in.. for people to do something.. Example: look at granite laurent story.. that was close ot the beginnning of retail.. so why is there no story now?
Edit: I am not looking for updated graphics and bug fixs so much as i want a story.. i can be in.. i want something to kill during hte story.. a mob.. or something.. is that asking for to much?
Edit2: Look at the Replicants.. they supposedly cant reproduce but why are there still zones full of them? no matter how many you kill they keep coming back.. why not stick ot the story and make them not spawn anymore? they put a limited amount with something special.. something very easy to do..
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 17:00
ehh...granite didn't come back yet... I hope he doesn't think I think he did a shite job -_-
Kasumi-sama that's kinda my point, it's like that with replicants, it's like that with the CA Guards that were outside TH, it's like that with the DoYBots, it's like that with the Elite Stormbots.
We can't make a dent in the world :P
Hehe well atleast someone agrees with me :)
By the way i see that theres a new sticky about events which is nice ot see :)
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
ehh...granite didn't come back yet... I hope he doesn't think I think he did a shite job -_-
Kasumi-sama that's kinda my point, it's like that with replicants, it's like that with the CA Guards that were outside TH, it's like that with the DoYBots, it's like that with the Elite Stormbots.
We can't make a dent in the world :P
Not entirely true. Myself and some others killed the CopBots inside the Crahn Church after they took it over. They didn't respawn, though there was a GM watching. I don't think anything happened in the Neocronicle though - the main reason is probably simply because it would be impossible to do much with every server being different - i.e. TG win on Saturn, CA win on Pluto.
EDIT: Of course when I said CopBots I meant StormBots. ;)
Originally posted by Scikar
CA win on Pluto.
BRING IT OOONNN !!!!!! :lol:
Yar ! CA gonna take you all down :p
p.s scikar you do realise theres a total of 20 CA runners on pluto and about 500 anti city o_O :p
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 18:32
Those were one time spawn mobs scikar, they wouldn't spawn again due to not having a spawn point, but all the mobs that are "Patched in" = Perma-respawn...
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Those were one time spawn mobs scikar, they wouldn't spawn again due to not having a spawn point, but all the mobs that are "Patched in" = Perma-respawn...
Well, yeah so if TG and others clear out the TH sectors of CA guards on Saturn it would take a patch to delete them, whereas on Pluto there might have been some CA guys helping the CA guards. So if players want interaction on that level the servers would need to go independent.
And yes Fenix I know I'm referring to CA, it's the comedy aspect of my posts. ;)
Dribble Joy
18-09-03, 19:19
/set lack of spelling capability 1
/set pesimism 1
Quite frankly I doubt we will ever get to alter the course of NC through our actions, MJS probably has sorted the storyline years ago.
/set pesimism 0
/set lack of spellig capability 0
Originally posted by Scikar
And yes Fenix I know I'm referring to CA, it's the comedy aspect of my posts. ;)
You havent been on pluto for a while then o_O im CA now :p
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
You havent been on pluto for a while then o_O im CA now :p
:eek: You used to be cool Fenyx... :p
Doc Holliday
19-09-03, 04:28
* uses large sword to cut thru 10 pages of shit. In response the the threadstarters first post. if callash spent as little time on his work as u did on spellinz and punctuashun then we would all be fucked. it sounds like an i want thread not well they say this this and this and dont deliver. yes some good points were raised but not all true. at the end of the day alot of people play this game because despite its faults we actually enjoy it. therefore some of us can be a little more tolerant of the hitches with it and see past that and actually make somethin of it during gaming hours.
QuantumDelta
19-09-03, 05:43
Dude, she's from Tokyo Japan there's no way in hell english is her first language.... :p
I'd like to see you try japanese though....hehehe :D
...but, she has a somewhat valid point.
meh....we'll just have to wait to see what happens..
KRIMINAL99
19-09-03, 16:45
Originally posted by Kasumi
1.If they cant pay GMs.. than thye shoukdnt of made an MMORPG..
2.If they refuse to make a story than they shouldnt of made Neocron..
3.If there going to just add content.. than they should of made an FPS not and MMORPG..
4.If Reakktor doesnt have the resources to handle any of these things.. they shouldnt of made Neocron or an MMORPG..
I dont understand something here... See one player RPGs dont have anyone modifing the game, you just play through all the content and story once and thats it, maybe they did it a special way to make it more interesting and replayable (which would be a smart suggestion for mmorpg companies and I think Neocron tried to do so with the epic runs).
If such people who claim to be "roleplayers" (and such people usually arent) are comparing this to a board game like AD&D consider how easy it is to change the entire setting in that scenario as compared to a computer game where it took 3 years to design the setting. So simply put if you want that much of a drastic change, where like you are lead to a new secret cave where BD is holding a drug factory or whatever its not going to happen here. (It may not be physically impossible to make an online game with areas like that can be slightly randomized and reused or something, maybe like taking AO's dungeons but then only using them with gm actors and major events or something) It wasn't something that KK ever advertised.
Reakktor has made many, many attempts to make new storyline for the game. And they have. Maybe they involved us a little too much in it and it killed the atmosphere. Maybe the direction changed too much and made the storyline seem trite. But they still did it. I think its not satisfying to you because your expecting the world to be too dynamic. Its a computer game.
Words like MMORPG and FPS are used by other people to categorize games. FPS'es can have story (and indeed are much better when they do) and you play a role in them. RPG's can be action based (and again are much better when they are) Secret of Mana 3, Star Ocean, etc.
In fact if you ask me the whole online RPG game is crap idea as far as it has been used anyway. Either
1. You would have to make a game SOOOO long that it could last people months on end to get through all the content and story (but it takes wayy longer to make than to play through- Neocron was made in 3 years adn it took me a month to see everything)
2. or you would have to use cheap tactics to make it long (like have 200 lvls but nothing really changes other than the number listed when you hit something.. cough cough AO)
3. Have some really inovative way to make the player keep the story interesting just by playing the game normally
4. Actually hire actors and have the gameworld so dynamic and reprogrammable that the actors could create their own setting for their events. (Heard neverwinter nights was supposed to be like that)
Neocron tried to be the 3rd one but they made the incentives for pvp so that people just wanted to kill each other randomly as opposed fight with their faction mates (Actually many people liked the result but it wasn't what kk was trying to do). Then they changed it again so there is no incentives to do anything except PVM which you get through really quick. The game could easily be changed to restore its number 3 status, even the way they originally intended but they will never do it due to their company setup and policies. Ahh shoot wth... Im gonna go make a new post with a final attempt to get through to them on how to make the game fun again and then go cancel my account.
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