View Full Version : I'd like an official response from KK/devs, about the imbalance of parashock in PvP.
Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 03:38
Hi. Yea I know this is my 5th million thread about this issue. But I think it's an extremely important issue. I think ppus are imbalanced when it comes to PvP, however I only want to get SPECIFICALLY into parashock for this thread. This thread is only about parashock and it's ill and overpowering effects in PvP.
First i'd like to ask, WHAT is the point of such a spell? From experience I know that a ppu doesn't need this for escape because i've seen good ppus time and time again need a large amount of people to kill them while they run around a whole ton of people trying to ressurect their friends. I also know that if parashock is removed, then a ppu cannot be parashock, thereby making it even harder to kill him. IF indeed parashock is supposed to be a passive defensive spell, why not make it that way? As of now anyone who isn't in denial knows that parashock at least 95% of the time parashock is used in an offensive manner. Parashock makes you completely helpless. It reduces you to a snail's pace, and destroyes your mouse sensitivity so that you can't hit your opponent if he's circling you at a fast speed. That is a POWERFUL effect. Remember when freezers were about who froze who first? THat's how powerful freezing someone is. The worst part is, this spell caps at 105 rof and takes fairly little mana.
That leads to my second question, why on earth is such a powerhouse spell so easily spammable? Let's compare Holy antibuff to Holy paralysis. I see these 2 spells as the most powerful apu and ppu spells in the PSI arsenal. When you cast holy antibuff on a ppu, it takes away their heal, shelter, and deflector. It leaves them utterly defenseless for a few seconds until they can recast all of their defenses. A very powerful spell, balanced by it's outrageous mana cost and RoF. It's a strategic spell. You don't just use it right away, you gotta plan it to make sure it counts because it has high mana cost and low rof.
To me, Holy Paralysis is the PPU counterpart of this spell. Which it shouldn't be anyways, because ppus are supposed to be passive not AGGRESSIVE! See much like holy antibuff, holy paralysis leaves someone totally defenseless, at least until they pop a drug. Just like those few seconds of defenselessness can cost the ppu's life if alot people concentrate their fire on that person, same goes for paralysis on someone else. But their are 2 problems here.
1.Holy antibuff can't be spammed, RIGHTFULLY so because it's such a powerful tool. But Holy paralysis CAN be spammed and it's extremely quick. Imagine the outrage from all the ppus in neocron if Holy Antibuff was 33 mana and 105 RoF. To all you ppus out there who love parashock, how would you feel if the apu could turn the tables and SPAM you with a spell that makes you defenseless, such that your countermeasures(recasting defenses) become POINTLESS because of all the spamming. How would you feel about that?
2.Holy Antibuff is an aggressive spell, RIGHTFULLY so because that is the apu's specialty, AGRESSIVE psi use. Holy Paralysis is also an aggressive spell, WRONGFULLY so. Holy Paralysis matchs the description of an apu spell, yet ppus have it. If anything apus should have it, of course that would be outrageous and imbalancing so I would prefer the spell removed completely. To say Parashock spells are defensive is like saying Holy Lightning is defensive, because the enemy can't attack you if their dead so "technically" it's used for defensive measures.
:rolleyes:
In my last op war, I died due to being spammed with holy paralysis again, ironically by the one of the same ppus. I couldn't do anything. I was completely helpless and defenseless. You can't miss shooting fish in a bucket, likewise you can't miss a paralyzed target who's being spammed so much that they are paralyzed for a long duration. You ARE an easy and short-lived target when you are spammed with this spell. The drugs become useless. It's bad enough they take a few seconds to kick in, in which you can die anyways, but they don't have a preventative effect.
I would say in group battles the apus are hit hardest by this spell, because they are the 2nd most important target(1st being ppu) AND they don't have the countermeasures of the ppu or the defense of a ppu to live through one. While a ppu doesn't have to wait for someone to heal him when he's shocked, the apu does. The apu cannot cast catharsis sanctum. The apu can't SHOCK BACK, etc.... Then pes are hit 2nd hardest, unless they can stealth. Then tanks. Spies well uhhh, i barely see spies in team battles unless he's at the back sniping. :p
And that's only talking about team battles. Many times I have escaped death at the hands of a group if I see them and run the other way or for cover. I never manage to escape when there's a ppu. It's always a "oh shit, time to run" because I know the first thing that ppu is going to do is cast his PASSIVE PSI Spell, on me. Oh wait, come to think of it this spell is passive. Because it doesn't directly kill you, it passively kills you. :rolleyes:
This spell is overpowered, it shouldn't even exist. You don't NEED it. I don't NEED to slow down my enemies to hit them, and my aim is awful. Ask some of my enemies and clanmates, my aim is horrible yet I still manage to do fine when it comes to very fast moving targets.
This of course leads to my last few question. Are you(KK/devs) aware of the issue? If so what is your stance? If you feel something needs to be done, are you doing something about it? And lastly, can you give an official response?
Thanks
Btw one last statement. I can't remember feelings so helpless and defenseless in PvP other than when i'm parashocked. Come to think of it, there's only one other time I felt that helpless and hopeless, and that was when fighting an overpowered hybrid.
I have a PPU Monk, I dont PvP, cant be ass'd with it. I want to go Proto, then Biotech, to do the epics, therefore, I have to get my faction to 50. How am I supposed to kill things, without a spell that can cause damage? I'm supposed to run upto an aggie and say "excuse me, please die for my epic, I'll pay you 50k?"
Parashock might be offensively used, but so is TL 3 heal, crap shelters, crap deflectors, anything that can weaken a PPU is used to weaken a PPU. The only defence a PPU might have against people who TL3 them, is to stun them, so they can get away to re-cast a heal.
Add the ability for a PPU to overcast a lower level spell
Add the ability for a PPU to actually do "passive" high level missions
Add the ability for a PPU to cloak (thats defensive)
Add the ability for a PPU to cast Heal/Shelter/Deflector at the same time (if its removed by 1 spell, it should be brought back by 1 spell)
Add the ability for Shelter to deflect DoT damage from Poison
Add the ability for PPU's to gain level's without needing a team
Add the ability for a PPU to get to 75 PSI in a couple of days without a team
Add the ability for a PPU to take down warbots, hack warbots, get rare parts, make money, not be a money drain, automatically get better spells.
The PPU is the underdog, it has ONE spell, just ONE that can be used offensivly against other char's. Against a PPU you have Pain Easer's, Anti Buffs, TL 3 Heals, low level PPU spells, all manner of force weapons. Hell, take down a PPU's legs, and he's screwed much quicker than a parashock. Sure, he can heal, he cant run. Mouse not sensitive enough? Turn it up in your settings, problem solved.
As an APU, you have the ability to kill any creature, you just cant heal, your defence is killing things before they can kill you. A PPU's defence is to try to stop things killing them, and if that means slowing them down so that thing can be killed, so be it, live and learn, just stop trying to take away the only way I and many monks have, of actually doing things like missions, or using our SC on warbots.
first off youre totally wrong about your assumption that para spells are used 95% of the time in an offensive manner, thats just plan bullshit and you know it, secondly comparing holy para to holy antibuff is just plain obsurd...first off theyre two totally different classes of spells one freezes you the other takes away heal/shelter & deflector which in case you didnt notice is 3 different spells a PPU has to cast back on himself in which case most apus would be able to cast it right when all 3 were cast back on ppu again...so in essence yes it IS spammable....I dont disagree that something must be done about it....some people say "just take dmg away"....others say "freezing is fine...its the turn speed that fucks me"....either way one or the other would be fine, I also dont think the mana cost is an issue...since I would be able to replenish what mana was lost in the time it would take for a drug to counter para anyways so youre bitch about that is quite irrellavant as well...honestly it wouldnt really hurt me if it was totally removed and it isnt gonna hurt me if it stays...so why do you seem to have such a big problem with it?
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Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 04:04
Originally posted by Lexxuk
I have a PPU Monk, I dont PvP, cant be ass'd with it. I want to go Proto, then Biotech, to do the epics, therefore, I have to get my faction to 50. How am I supposed to kill things, without a spell that can cause damage? I'm supposed to run upto an aggie and say "excuse me, please die for my epic, I'll pay you 50k?"
Parashock might be offensively used, but so is TL 3 heal, crap shelters, crap deflectors, anything that can weaken a PPU is used to weaken a PPU. The only defence a PPU might have against people who TL3 them, is to stun them, so they can get away to re-cast a heal.
That doesn't justify the existence of parashock IMO. And yea KK should make it so that higher level buffs ovveride lower level buffs.
See, I always thought ppu monks shouldn't be able to do damage. But that was only because they could glue you to the spot and you had no choice but to get hit. If parashock is removed, then it would be ok to give them some offense because they wouldn't be able to kill a player unless the player is a noob or just stood there and took the hits.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Add the ability for a PPU to overcast a lower level spell
Add the ability for a PPU to actually do "passive" high level missions
Add the ability for a PPU to cloak (thats defensive)
Add the ability for a PPU to cast Heal/Shelter/Deflector at the same time (if its removed by 1 spell, it should be brought back by 1 spell)
Add the ability for Shelter to deflect DoT damage from Poison
Add the ability for PPU's to gain level's without needing a team
Add the ability for a PPU to get to 75 PSI in a couple of days without a team
Add the ability for a PPU to take down warbots, hack warbots, get rare parts, make money, not be a money drain, automatically get better spells.
I agree
I agree
I disagree, that should be spy only.
I totally disagree, that would be overpowering IMO.
Well, if it does that then poison should be brought back to it's former glory.
Sure why not?
Sure why not?
I agree, but what do you mean "automatically get better spells"?
Originally posted by Lexxuk
The PPU is the underdog, it has ONE spell, just ONE that can be used offensivly against other char's. Against a PPU you have Pain Easer's, Anti Buffs, TL 3 Heals, low level PPU spells, all manner of force weapons. Hell, take down a PPU's legs, and he's screwed much quicker than a parashock. Sure, he can heal, he cant run.
TL 3 heal is an exploit. Antibuff is BALANCED, and is the only ppu specific weapon. All the other weapons can be used against other people. No offense it doesn't sound like you PvP much, how can you say taking down a ppus legs is quicker than a parashock? Oh lord. First of all that's not gonna happen if he's shetlered, secondly he can just heal up the damage quickly and run again, but ppus never get leg crippled unless they are without buffs and then hit in the legs in which case it's still nowhere near as fast as simply clicking on them with a spell to slow them down.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Mouse not sensitive enough? Turn it up in your settings, problem solved.
:lol:
Originally posted by Lexxuk
As an APU, you have the ability to kill any creature, you just cant heal, your defence is killing things before they can kill you. A PPU's defence is to try to stop things killing them, and if that means slowing them down so that thing can be killed, so be it, live and learn, just stop trying to take away the only way I and many monks have, of actually doing things like missions, or using our SC on warbots.
I disagree. The missions thing is always an excuse ppus have clung to to justify the use of their overpowered spell in PvP.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
I dont PvP,
I can see that now.
Originally posted by extract
first off youre totally wrong about your assumption that para spells are used 95% of the time in an offensive manner, thats just plan bullshit and you know it,
It's not bullshit, it's my opinion and I feel it's the truth.
Originally posted by extract
first off theyre two totally different classes of spells one freezes you the other takes away heal/shelter & deflector which in case you didnt notice is 3 different spells a PPU has to cast back on himself in which case most apus would be able to cast it right when all 3 were cast back on ppu again...so in essence yes it IS spammable....I
260 mana. Most apus have gimp mana, unless they gimp themselves significantly to have "Decent" mana. Even then they cannot cast holy antibuff as soon as the ppu has all those 3 spells up. And if you consider that spammable, then what do you consider Holy Paralysis which is 33 mana and 105 rof?
Originally posted by extract
I also dont think the mana cost is an issue...since I would be able to replenish what mana was lost in the time it would take for a drug to counter para anyways so youre bitch about that is quite irrellavant as well...
That makes no sense. Not if the mana cost is like 200. The spell shouldn't even exist IMO, but if it does then it should be about 200 mana.
So the PPU has to "make it count" just like the apu has to do.
Originally posted by extract
honestly it wouldnt really hurt me if it was totally removed and it isnt gonna hurt me if it stays...so why do you seem to have such a big problem with it?
If you dont' see my problem with it, then reread my first post.
I am gonna have to disagree with you about your "Turn up the mouse sensitivity" Lexxuk. I have tried it. Mouse sensitivity to the max, yet I still can't turn worth crap when para'ed.
Extract, Holy Para IS used agressively 95% of the time and YOU know it. You know how fucking embarrassing it is to get Holy Para'ed to death? Yeah, go ahead and stare at me, it's happened more times than I can count. Excuse me, but I thought this was a spell that all you PPU's "Needed to get away"? Then why the fuck am I being killed by it on a regular basis? I completely HATE Holy Para, because unlike all of you PPU's who think it's fine, I think it is a flawed spell that had little-to-no thought put into it when creating it.
Something that can be done to fix this though, is to SERIOUSLY up how much mana it eats, maybe 300 or something along those lines. If you did this, I doubt there would be any more spamming on people. Drugs should be able to let you get away, but with the current system, you just slap it on as many times as you can and not even taking 6 drugs will help you get away.
Sorry for the harsh language near the top, but it just really pisses me off that so many of you feel that spell is perfectly fine the way it is, when people (lots of them) are using it to kill.
EDIT: Rating this thread 5 Stars, this is something that seriously needs to be considered by the devs.
ZoneVortex
16-09-03, 04:09
Yeah seriously. Does KK realize many of us don't like parashock?
first off I as a PPU have better things to do with my time in PvP than to keep parashocking someone when it does like 15 dmg (averagely) you know like heal the people im ppuing for...secondly how can it be used offensively 100% of the time youre a moron if you really think that....im not going to say its not used offensively at all, but playing on one of the highest pop servers in this game ive yet to see it happen on such a regular basis that you can claim its done 95-100% of the time...and if u honestly get parashocked to death as any class you really shouldnt be playin the game at all cause you just plain suck put youre LE in or something and stay out of the lvl 1 sewers those bees might kill ya
Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 04:16
Originally posted by extract
first off I as a PPU have better things to do with my time in PvP than to keep parashocking someone when it does like 15 dmg (averagely)
That's good, that doesn't mean other people don't do it.
Originally posted by extract
and if u honestly get parashocked to death as any class you really shouldnt be playin the game at all cause you just plain suck put youre LE in or something and stay out of the lvl 1 sewers those bees might kill ya
Spies who can't stealth, and apus can get parashocked to death if they are far away enough from escape.
I think it all comes down to the fact that a stun weapon of any kind is not needed in this game. They are a lame ass idea for a FPS type game. If people wana win, they should win because they have good aim and a good setup, not because their target cant do anything.
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Ok, you're gonna tell me to put your LE in because you can't handle the fact that the spell HAS killed many people in the past and WILL kill plenty more in the future? No, as a matter of fact, I have been playing the same spy for damn near 9 months now. You think it only does 15 damage? LOL, try DBing em first (Something ALL PPU's who have killed me with it have done), noob.
I'm sorry, but I hear lots of bitching coming from Holy Para, and you know what's REALLY funny? The only people defending it are the PPU's. Ain't that a little weird? And When I gave that number on me being killed by Parashock, that was from the PPU ONLY. You know how royally screwed I am if there's a PPU AND someone who can deal a lot of damage too? I cannot count the number of times I have been killed by the effects of, or the actual spell itself. You PPU's just keep using that lame excuse that you need it to escape... and I'll keep agreeing with everyone to nerf that damn spell to hell and back, because right now, the Holy Para is NOT being used to "escape".
My biggest problems with Holy Para are
1. MASSIVE amounts of damage it does to drones.
2. Turn speed decrease
3. Extremely overpowered compared to any other types of shockers. Saying "This Freezer rare is uber while this one sucks donkey dick” is a little strange.
Ark man, tone it down a bit, please, you are gona get this thread closed which will be counterproductive for everyone.
Ive said it before, and ill say it again. This forum made me realize why dictators kill people with different ideas then their own... its just so damn frustrating. how can ANYONE say parashock in its current form is fair? it RUINS pvp for all the reasons shadow said. get rid of the shit, or make it only slow players by max 20%. Anyone who cant admit its an unfair spell is a die hard PPU who cant see beyond what give him an advnatage.
thewarrior008
16-09-03, 04:32
hey Arc (schadow dancer) lol i luv u man and u know it buut, u pos so much tat i almost tink its spamm O.O
or is it a new psychological method u use on the mods to get something u want :p
http://users.telenet.be/eforum/emoticons4u/evil/1287.gif
Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 04:33
Calm down Max, ;), no need for flames.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by VetteroX
Ive said it before, and ill say it again. This forum made me realize why dictators kill people with different ideas then their own... its just so damn frustrating. how can ANYONE say parashock in its current form is fair? it RUINS pvp for all the reasons shadow said. get rid of the shit, or make it only slow players by max 20%. Anyone who cant admit its an unfair spell is a die hard PPU who cant see beyond what give him an advnatage.
rofl@your first sentence.
But yea I agree with your post, except for the dictator part. :p
Excelent point of view comparing paralysis with holy antibuff; I cannot agree more with your first post.
5 stars.
Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 04:45
Originally posted by Sleawer
Excelent point of view comparing paralysis with holy antibuff; I cannot agree more with your first post.
5 stars.
Sent you a PM.
There's only three things in this game that lead to me dying.
Ever.
1.) Crashes and Fatals
2.) Bad FPS and Lag
3.) Holy paraylsis
I've long since given up on the first two ever being corrected, I will never give up on the third.
Just.
Fucking.
Fix it.
JFF
I think "JFFI" (pronounced 'jiffy') is much better for your campaign Mr. Zokk.
That'll be 500 dollars.
cracky said it best: freezers = the death of PvP
QuantumDelta
16-09-03, 06:45
Tag, your shit.
I agree with Shadow's rebuttle on Lexx's demands after para dies.
Either those in addition (that shadow agreed with) or an ACTUAL RUNCAST HEAL + runcast single (non-group/non-sanctum spells) spells, like shelter/deflector of the holy type (read; this is for people with 100% PSU and pretty low mana.... + Five slottage.).
yea well maybe if there was a way to prevent it being used on runners then maybe id agree, but atm I guess Im a minority when I say that I use it mostly in PvM situations....then again I rarely PvP....as far as me saying its not used offensively that much is my observation and mine alone, Im never going to go with hearsay or anything like that....just because I said i saw youre brother screwing your mom....does it mean it happened??? Im sure you get the point....fact is not once did I dispute the fact that something needed to be done with it...so get off my ass about it will ya.........
Dargeshaad
16-09-03, 08:42
Holy Paralyze and Paralyze Beam are the two spells that ruins PvP the most imho.
I miss the days when KK nerfed the freezers to hell, now that was a fun time. Too bad so many ppus whined because their precious spells got worthless and in the end got their will.
Almost all the skill involved in PvP is to do with running, turning, jumping and dodging. Thus having a spell that takes all that away from a character takes all the skill out of PvP.
Freezers = Death of PvP
I dont really like paralisis but i can live with it, it has been around for a year now and i am used to it.
In an ideal world it would have been removed long since like the freezer cannons/shockers usefullness.
I was talking to a PPU yesterday and he said to me "i would gladly give up Holy Para if i could runcast shelt/def/heal etc"
this to me is the best idea, and given any of the very good ppu's can get away from 10-15 people i see no reason to not to remove it.
Andy
hrmm..sounds like a little ole PIMP APU is feeling a little jealous!
:p (j/k)
Dont jump on me guys but why on earth does a PPU need paralysis to level in the aggie cellars. Our PPU had rifle skill and used to solo warbots all the time. Seeing as though the buffs mean they take bugger all damage they could take aggies on with a fruit knife.
And for needing to do aggie missions for XP , just take research or another tradeskill and earn it that way ( thats as passive as it gets really ).
Richard Slade
16-09-03, 12:19
I only got one thing to say (didn't have the time to read it all just a few replies)
A damn PPU should NOT be able to kill a warbot under any circumstances since that would destroy the whole point of being PPU
PPU = Teamwork
If yer a PPU yer a support class
Means u support OTHERS while they do the heavy shit
parashocks should stay in the game !! they help people with no skill to look good, so keeep them in...
the only time a parashock is used for defence is when the ppus team dies while he was to busy parashocking rather than buffing and he needs to run away
take them out
I really got to stop going to bed, I miss all the fun :p
Okily, the TL3 etc. is not, under KK's definition, an Exploit. Based on their "rez kill" analogy.
You can Shelter someone
You can kill someone.
Therefore, sheltering and killing someone is not an exploit O_o
With that into consideration, what can a PPU do to stop the tank who's attacking them? Ok, we can run, cept we have no legs. We can heal, except the TL3 heal means we cant, we cant buff, we cant do anything except shock, and hope to hell we can get away.
People think PPU's are over powered because you cannot kill them, but you can kill them, very easily in fact. Poison stacks, will do shit loads of damage to a PPU, they can out heal it, sure, but the DoT can be a lot, and if they dont have antidote, they are screwed.
PPU's should be able to kill a warbot, PPU's should be able to walk upto a warbot and punch it to death with their fists, that should be their power, instead, we have to rely on other people to get our levels up, thats why its easier to start as APU, because you can level, make money etc.
As for tanks who get killed with Parashock - they just totally suck. I've had to kill two people for my epic, first a spy, I had to use 2 psi booster's to kill a spy with parashock, with about 360 mana, with the tank, we actually had a long conversation whilst i tried to kill him, if he had a gun, i'd be a dead monk.
Instead of saying "REMOVE PARASHOCK!!!" change your stance to "Fix Anti-Shock" make them last for 10 seconds, in which time you cant be shocked again, then it would come down to skill "am I goin to get shocked, should I put anti-shock in my qb or not, should i use it?" and make it insta kick. Problem solved. A nerf of Parashock would only hurt one class, PPU, fixing anti-shock instead, would be the more appropriate solution.
As for cracky's sig, that was when all freezer's ruined PvP cause the first thing you'd get, is frozen by tanks, pes, spies... though this one time, at band camp, two tanks attacked me with cursed souls, and I almost killed them, then they pulled a freezer cannon and I stuck a flashlight up my cat :p
/edit @ the mouse thing - turnin sensitivity up = you get used to higher sensitivity, which means when you get shocked, its faster, but seems like treacle.
@ Ste above - no, they are useful for killing sewer flies in one hit, spiders take 3 or so hits to kill though ;)
DIE HOLY PARA DIE!!!
I'll be back later with a better responce, but I want to say NOW that I'm 100% with Shad here.
As far as PARA and Debuff not being simmilar, last I check, both leave you pretty vulnerable, and only PPUS have ubar heals.
It is an Offensive spell. Just like APUS gave up the ability to have good Defense.
PPUs MUST give up the ability to be Offensive!
When was the last time you went to an OP and the PPU didn't PARA anyone? Yeah, that's what I thought. A PPU who doesn't PARA at an OP fight gets yelled at and called a crap PPU.
PPUs come into PP, I LEAVE! WHY?! Cause they RUIN IT! It's just too damn easy for them to make me a corps.
100% agree with Shadow's post.
I'm sorry, but everyone who says 95% of HP usuage isnt offensive is bullshiting us here on huge scale. Or that person just isnt involved in PvP and OP fight especially.
HP could stay, it is a very usefull spell, but ffs limit it to PvM only!
Any sort of freezers/shockers is ruining PvP. This is a fact since more then a year. We managed it as a community to got rid of them all except these damn spells.
Psyco Groupie
16-09-03, 13:50
rofs needs lowering significantly
I play a PPU and i agree, it is overpowered. But in my oppinion, it should cost more mana like 150 or so. Secondly make the counter drugs work instantly and thats it.
Then you only freeze important opponents, they hav a countermeasure and you cant use the para to kill someone in a reasonable timespan. That would be a good soultion i think.
Wont help you when you are shocked, out of drugs, alone and the PPU kills you with his rifle though :) but i think thats a rare exception.
Xaru
BTW: I think there should be ways for a PPU to level on his own and do interesting mission.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Btw one last statement. I can't remember feelings so helpless and defenseless in PvP other than when i'm parashocked. Come to think of it, there's only one other time I felt that helpless and hopeless, and that was when fighting an overpowered hybrid.
haha i like that statement but a good apu could take out a hybrid fairly quickly as they can anti shelter faster and attack faster and at a higher lvl try it some time. oh you cant there are no hybrids.
as for the blue glue
REMOVE IT TOTALLY
obsolubtly remove all freezers in teh game
everysingle one delete them remove them throw them in teh bin.
closely follow it by removing the following
apu monks
ppu monks
and then closely follow that by making all monks hybrids.
Shadow - I'd agree with u - IF this game had genuine pvp in it and the community and admins were genuinely pvp orientated.
Im surprised u call tl 3 heal an exploit - most I think, think its a perfectly acceptable tactic and im sure KK does even tho they never meant it to be used this way. Its been ingame for months and nothing been done about it, same as crap def/shelters. Same as using an exploit to cast cath sanctum instantly - Ive seen ppl do it and tell all around how (kind of makes discussion about mana cost irrelevant). Any pvp game where balance is seen as important would ban this and these ppl from their servers and kind of see it as important to do so.
Ive been at an op with half my team fighting one clan at the back gate with the other half in the hack room fighting a stealthing clan - fine but best of all - a monk with an le in (all know him as a part of the clan) casting SCs on the hackers - I suppose u could say defending the op with his godmode on - this will stay ingame because rpg players demand it.
PvP games where this sort of stuff in become a joke - no genuine pvp player plays em so stuff like balance etc is completely irrelevant. Another thing no fps game has is a character soley devoted to healing - all medics in FPS games have guns - its only level up games with mages in that have these totally devoted healers. I have serious problem seeing this as a game where pvp balance can even be discussed now. As all will tell u - its an RPG - char balance with regard to pvp and geniune pvp is not really an issue anymore. And like getting all worked up about para - when all this other stuff goes on and is perfectly acceptable is a waste of time.
they stopped psi combat booster being cast on self and psi shield being cast on others for the same usage reasons as people are using tl3 heals
if people keep using it like they are then all heals on others will be removed and then your going to be in shit
Even as a ppu, I myself hate holy para....
well heres an idea :
Make holy para cost 200-250 mana
Remove the anti freeze drugs
problem solved....this would still keep the spell ingame
Or remove it and give ppus runcast ability and a tl 5-20 dmg dealing spell
ericdraven
16-09-03, 14:36
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Instead of saying "REMOVE PARASHOCK!!!" change your stance to "Fix Anti-Shock" make them last for 10 seconds, in which time you cant be shocked again, then it would come down to skill "am I goin to get shocked, should I put anti-shock in my qb or not, should i use it?" and make it insta kick. Problem solved. Best solution IMHO.
Because this would need SKILL again (for all those 1337 PKers out there), and good timing.. and preparation.
And i am sure all the 1337 players who complain about HP at the moment won't have a problem with this change, because they are 1337 anyway, so nothing to fear, right? :D
Shadow,
I loved the way you stated your case.. very professional.
I have 2 things to comment about your initial post.
1. If Parashock in all forms is Offensive, then Anti-Buff in all forms is Passive. Doesn't hurt you does it? Doesn't make all ur Imps fall out if I keep casting it? No. Passive.
2. You mentioned that u never felt so vulnerable as when there were Hybrids. You were probably one of the whinging brigade that got that nerfed.
I agree with Lexx
Some of u guys need to play a PPU to know what it's like.
QuantumDelta
16-09-03, 15:13
He's played PPU.
Though...not recently enough imo :p
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
Shadow,
1. If Parashock in all forms is Offensive, then Anti-Buff in all forms is Passive. Doesn't hurt you does it? Doesn't make all ur Imps fall out if I keep casting it? No. Passive.
2. You mentioned that u never felt so vulnerable as when there were Hybrids. You were probably one of the whinging brigade that got that nerfed.
I agree with Lexx
Some of u guys need to play a PPU to know what it's like.
100 % agree
.cy
cyl0n you better be online tonight your taking me lvling :) then killing :)
Originally posted by hinch
cyl0n you better be online tonight your taking me lvling :) then killing :)
ok sexy :)
im loming back to hybrid imo tho ... :p
im rather gimped than pure(crap) :)
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
ok sexy :)
im loming back to hybrid imo tho ... :p
im rather gimped than pure(crap) :)
.cy
why you think i never lommed to pure in the first place :)
While I have myself died plenty of times due to parashock, I die a lot less from that since the freezer weapons were nerfed. The suggestion to up the mana cost of it sounds fair, people are pitching the spell as a last resort to escape, not as an agressive tactic at the beginning of battle.
As to why this thread might be ignored by the devs? I point you towards the thread starter's post:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
In my last op war, I died due to being spammed with holy paralysis again,
Now, regardless of the logical and sensible position that Shadow has presented, this sentence immediately places the post in the realms of 'I died, I don't like it' classification. Don't get me wrong, I agree with whats being said, but I think you'll find that a post when the PPUs' themselves state that it needs to be changed will carry more weight with the decision makers.
An example of this would be the recent comments by the Pistol users saying that the Raygun Pistols (Blacksun is it?) are way too powerful, and that they are using the liberator instead 'because its more of a challenge'.
Voodoochicken
16-09-03, 16:34
IMO, parashocks should be kept in, but changed.. :angel:
The problem is that holy parashock practically stops you dead AND lasts for 25-30 seconds. (?)
So:
I think that all the parashock spells should have:
-the SAME (low) stun effect (eg. 10-20% ?)
-a duration of (max) 10 seconds.
-the same (very low) effect on turnspeed
ie. Holy para should only stun by the same amount as the lowest lvl parashock.
I don't see anything wrong with something that reduces run speed by 10-20%.
The differences between the low TL/ high TL parashocks would be:
-range
-mana cost
-damage
If the stun effect was appropriately low, then the antishock drugs wouldn't be "necessary" (ie. remove them).
I think the changes should acknowledge the aggressive potential of para- spells, whilst still allowing a PPU the chance to use it defensively.
(ie. a 10-20% speed reduction lasting 10 seconds would often times be enough for a shielded/buffed PPU to run away)
Also, the max speed reduction everyone suffers from being hit in the legs should be significantly decreased.
Original monk
16-09-03, 16:47
im posting ZZZZZZZzzzZZZzzzzzzz cause i know in advance this post goes about the nerfin of PPU's (or para) so its BORING in advance, please make a constructive post, or sumthing new (not a nerf post), and no i havent read this post, and i never will.
i suggest a new forumrule, whining about the same subject for over 25 billion times= immediate ban
***** ***** **** **** **** nerfs ***** you ******** and **** in **** ******* skull, ya hear me ?
edit: im a 81/65 ppu so yeah i dislike all this nonsense, i know you prefer the PPU to only cast you youre shelter and combat3 boost and for the rest a ppu can sit back and shut up while you have all the fun of killin people, remove para, remove sc remove evrything that makes the ppu a bit fun and there will be no PPU's anymore, thats R.I.P to YET another class. (and afterwords they go whining to lower the power of MC5 mobs cause there are no decent ppu's anymore to go level with :/ ) always the same shit with them whiners
juvestar15
16-09-03, 17:19
PPUs killed fun PvP for me, especially with that parashock.
This is what usually happens when i play......
Log on my tank or PE, run to PP, have some fights.
In steps an enemy PPU.
Tank/PE logs off.
APU logs on or i log of fcompletely.
I don't even bother bringing my tank or PE to an OP fight since i know my APU can inflict much more damage. I guess this post is about nerfing PPUs, but getting rid of parashock is a step in the right direction.
4 pages of stuff, here is something you havn't thought about (I hope cause I am not reading the flamming).
A ppu in the jungle by himslef, get jumped by 5 others. He buffs up and cant do nothing. He pulls out his, slow them down spell, so he can get away......
The Spell is a defence spell. I agree it is also used in PvP and op wars, so how about this. The spell is only active when a weapon is drawn. So if you draw your weapn then you die, else you can run away and cry...You could also chase down the PPU but when you try and attack then you are slow again
I gotta ask a couple of questions:
Would it REALLY nerf PPU's if parashock was gone?
Would a PPU still be able to protect himself and others without parashock?
Would a skilled PPU still be able to laugh at any person trying to kill him / her without parashock?
shrug. seems like a simple answer to me.
My PPU barely ever uses the thing and he gets along just fine.
Kira
A ppu in the jungle by himslef, get jumped by 5 others. He buffs up and cant do nothing. He pulls out his, slow them down spell, so he can get away......
That isn't much of a bitch. How would any other class fare 5 v 1?
They would die instantly. A PPU at least has a chance, even without parashock.
Besides you are just admitting on how broken it is : It allows you to live through a 5 v 1 battle.
Kira
I say take it away ...... then letme us runcast holy heal/shelter and deflect, that's more defensive to me than parashock will ever be.
My ppu uses it to send ppl to their demise nothing more :p
Clothing_Option
16-09-03, 18:01
I want Shadow Dancers Holy whatever NERFED not anyone elses just his. Interms of PPU issues i think that spell is great primarily cause he doesnt like it
CRAIG DIGGERS
16-09-03, 18:03
lol its the 15th thread of para ?
o_O
Get frozen all night long huh ? Ultimate ppu slayer:lol:
Or need more stuff to "quote", keeping your powerposting going on?
Well, remove the freeze and make the apu not runcast the spells.
Take ALL PPUs a leg off and put them in wheelchairs.
You really have a problem with it hm ?
The simple question is to ask anyone what the most powerful weapon is in game, in like what weapon if it hits you will make you die the fastest.
For me it's parashock, hands down. I get hit once, and I die 10 times faster, at least.
On op defense, if attackers have PPU's, there's no way I'm gonna get far from the underground's exit, because if I get para'd, I'm dead, 1 hit and I'm gone. If they don't have ppus yeah I'll run further and fight, even against stronger odds, cause I can move, hide among them and make them shoot each other, dodge, etc. That's when fights are more fun. Not when you have to pop out, shoot a couple times and pop back in cause you're shocked (imho anyway).
For those saying that shocks should remain cause ppus need dmg for mission, LOL. Please, if you ask PPU's wether they wanna keep parashock's damage, or stun, guess what they're gonna answer (my bet ain't on the crappy dmg).
Oh, BTW I'd be fine with parashock's dmg staying in for ppus to do missions, mana cost could even be cut down, they would have their nuke and people would be able to fight in PvP.
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
I want Shadow Dancers Holy whatever NERFED not anyone elses just his. Interms of PPU issues i think that spell is great primarily cause he doesnt like it
ahahahah EXACTLY :)
btw.. imagine apu's runcasting and para gets removed.... all i can say is that this is like 10 x the old hybrid in op fights.....o_O
.cy
Lord Mansion
16-09-03, 18:28
Originally posted by LTA
I say take it away ...... then letme us runcast holy heal/shelter and deflect, that's more defensive to me than parashock will ever be.
My ppu uses it to send ppl to their demise nothing more :p
Yes, that would be a reasonable replacement.
Originally posted by CRAIG DIGGERS
lWell, remove the freeze and make the apu not runcast the spells.
yea good idea...i would like that :)
.cy
make ppu's self cast buffs even stronger/ heals better, and remove the power to freeze or damage anyone.
if they want to hurt things,
a) dont be a ppu
b) use your SC to do epic's/missons
Originally posted by Original monk
im posting ZZZZZZZzzzZZZzzzzzzz cause i know in advance this post goes about the nerfin of PPU's (or para) so its BORING in advance, please make a constructive post, or sumthing new (not a nerf post), and no i havent read this post, and i never will.
i suggest a new forumrule, whining about the same subject for over 25 billion times= immediate ban
***** ***** **** **** **** nerfs ***** you ******** and **** in **** ******* skull, ya hear me ?
edit: im a 81/65 ppu so yeah i dislike all this nonsense, i know you prefer the PPU to only cast you youre shelter and combat3 boost and for the rest a ppu can sit back and shut up while you have all the fun of killin people, remove para, remove sc remove evrything that makes the ppu a bit fun and there will be no PPU's anymore, thats R.I.P to YET another class. (and afterwords they go whining to lower the power of MC5 mobs cause there are no decent ppu's anymore to go level with :/ ) always the same shit with them whiners
Maybe one day you'll finally be bothered to post an intelligent and reasoned argument explaining WHY parashock shouldn't be taken out. Until then you're just as bad as an overpowered hybrid, clinging to his char desparately because he knows the minute it's gone poeple will realise he has no skills and he won't be uber any more.
As much as I am against parashock at least people like cylon are pointing out important things to consider - maybe apus would become overpowered in OP wars. But you're just acting like a spoilt kid. Stop misquoting people - nobody ever said ppus shouldn't be able to assist with damage dealing, i.e. damage boost, soulclusters. Just that parashock is too extreme. I would happily replace parashock with a damage boost barrel which works similarly to the rare apu barrels.
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
I want Shadow Dancers Holy whatever NERFED not anyone elses just his. Interms of PPU issues i think that spell is great primarily cause he doesnt like it
Not only is that very lame, it's also harassment.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
btw.. imagine apu's runcasting and para gets removed.... all i can say is that this is like 10 x the old hybrid in op fights.....
I don't think apus would be 10x the old hybrid, but I agree they would probably become a little too powerful in OP wars. I've been thinking (inspired by a friend) that maybe apus shouldn't runcast, but they should get better area effect weapons. Decrease the range a little on HL and FA, but only down to where toxic beam is currently (atm range-wise FA > HL > tox beam), and then improve AoE weapons for apus. If they can't runcast, they're gonna be fairly easy targets for more than one person at a time, and they won't last very long with no runcasting and just HL.
I suggest change Holy Thunderstorm into a kind of multi holy lightning (not my idea though I do like the sound of it :)). When you cast it several beams land around where you aim, sorta like you cast, and 3 or 4 fusion cannon shots come down out of the sky and land near where you aim, except they're lightning bolts (though they have AoE effect instead of direct damage). These bolts, being AoE, would not pass through terrain, so you could hide in a building for protection. The mana cost for this would of course be extreme, but it's not going to be too overpowering since the damage is spread over an area, even more so than tank AoE weapons. Basically it would make apus real artillery. :D
Something like this would make apus more of a support class, they're not so useful in a skirmish so much, but in an OP war where they can attack from cover they'll do what they're meant to do. In solo PvP apus would be at a disadvantage due to their lack of runcasting (which means apus will be weak if they get rushed at an OP war, especially since they won't have an easy time targetting anyone either if nobody is parashocked, while the apu is forced to walk in order to attack).
Ok, here a proposition for you PPUs out there:
KK remove Para (and all freezer weps)
KK make it so that you can runcast your spells at high level
KK make higher buffs override lower ones (no more TL3ing)
What would you guys think of that? As a non-PPU I would be happy with that.
Clothing_Option
16-09-03, 19:04
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
I want Shadow Dancers Holy whatever NERFED not anyone elses just his. Interms of PPU issues i think that spell is great primarily cause he doesnt like it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not only is that very lame, it's also harassment.
--------------------------------------------------------------From sicar
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh Lighten up
its a joke its not like its actually gonna happen
and the idea that he doesnt like the PPU spell is good enough reason for me to like it since i can use a PPU to kill him.
Thank you,
2 things
how many people have seen tanks run casting heal
also
you only get heal cast on you when you are parashocked, since with out a apu, there is no way to kill you
get some skills
___T-X____
16-09-03, 20:22
The GM's need to be more active on this topic for it to be relayed to KK.
Alas, the GM's steer well clear of it
Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 20:27
Originally posted by CRAIG DIGGERS
lol its the 15th thread of para ?
o_O
Get frozen all night long huh ? Ultimate ppu slayer:lol:
Or need more stuff to "quote", keeping your powerposting going on?
Well, remove the freeze and make the apu not runcast the spells.
Take ALL PPUs a leg off and put them in wheelchairs.
You really have a problem with it hm ?
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by extract
yea well maybe if there was a way to prevent it being used on runners then maybe id agree, but atm I guess Im a minority when I say that I use it mostly in PvM situations....then again I rarely PvP....as far as me saying its not used offensively that much is my observation and mine alone, Im never going to go with hearsay or anything like that....just because I said i saw youre brother screwing your mom....does it mean it happened??? Im sure you get the point....fact is not once did I dispute the fact that something needed to be done with it...so get off my ass about it will ya.........
I'm sure it can be made to affect monsters only.
I mean, provoke and distract(if they even work :p) only work on mobs right?
Originally posted by stigmata
I was talking to a PPU yesterday and he said to me "i would gladly give up Holy Para if i could runcast shelt/def/heal etc"
this to me is the best idea, and given any of the very good ppu's can get away from 10-15 people i see no reason to not to remove it.
Andy
That's a totally fine tradeoff.
Originally posted by F8i
hrmm..sounds like a little ole PIMP APU is feeling a little jealous!
:p (j/k)
:p
Originally posted by Lexxuk
I really got to stop going to bed, I miss all the fun :p
Okily, the TL3 etc. is not, under KK's definition, an Exploit. Based on their "rez kill" analogy.
I don't know, that's sketchy. I'd prefer an official statement on that. Zoning is not an exploit, neither is using poison. But if you use poison then zone you can avoid SL loss. And avoiding SL loss for killing someone is an exploit.
See?
Originally posted by Lexxuk
People think PPU's are over powered because you cannot kill them, but you can kill them, very easily in fact. Poison stacks, will do shit loads of damage to a PPU, they can out heal it, sure, but the DoT can be a lot, and if they dont have antidote, they are screwed.
Once again you show your lack of PvP knowledge. Anyhow I never said ppus were overpowered, I just think their imbalanced.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Instead of saying "REMOVE PARASHOCK!!!" change your stance to "Fix Anti-Shock" make them last for 10 seconds,
Well I used to think like that, but now I feel a spell like parashock should never even be in a mmorpg. What's next, a "charm" spell that allows you to control other players? O_o
Originally posted by Lexxuk
As for cracky's sig, that was when all freezer's ruined PvP cause the first thing you'd get, is frozen by tanks, pes, spies...
The first thing that happens for me when the enemy has a ppu is that I get shocked.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
/edit @ the mouse thing - turnin sensitivity up = you get used to higher sensitivity, which means when you get shocked, its faster, but seems like treacle.
:lol:
Originally posted by hinch
haha i like that statement but a good apu could take out a hybrid fairly quickly as they can anti shelter faster and attack faster
It takes a MINIMUM of THREE whole seconds to debuff. You're telling me in a 1v1 the hybrid can't get shelter ready then quickly buff up again? Puh leeze.
Unless you mean TEAM battle, but I was referring to 1v1.
Originally posted by ZigZag
Its been ingame for months and nothing been done about it,
SO were hybrids, freezers, etc.... If we stay quiet and say nothing, it won't get fixed.
Originally posted by ZigZag
Same as using an exploit to cast cath sanctum instantly -
wtf, man I hope you're joking.
Originally posted by ZigZag
I have serious problem seeing this as a game where pvp balance can even be discussed now. As all will tell u - its an RPG - char balance with regard to pvp and geniune pvp is not really an issue anymore. And like getting all worked up about para - when all this other stuff goes on and is perfectly acceptable is a waste of time.
I disagree, but I can definitely see where you're coming from. :(
Originally posted by deac
Or remove it and give ppus runcast ability and a tl 5-20 dmg dealing spell
This seems more acceptable. Apus DO have defense, just 2nd worse in the game. So ppus could get the worst offense in the game, but still have offense. And since they can't glue you to the floor, they can't really kill you unless you stay there hehehe.
Personally instead of another defensive spell, I think run/casting and a bit of offense is a GREAT tradeoff for losing holy paralysis.
Originally posted by ericdraven
Best solution IMHO.
Because this would need SKILL again (for all those 1337 PKers out there), and good timing.. and preparation.
And i am sure all the 1337 players who complain about HP at the moment won't have a problem with this change, because they are 1337 anyway, so nothing to fear, right? :D
Good solution, but it would still make HP useless. Insta-kick with 10 second immunity? I'd never get shocked again. Wouldn't PPU rather lose the spell and gain run/casting with some offense, rather than their spell being nerfed but staying in the game?
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
Shadow,
I loved the way you stated your case.. very professional.
Thanks I appreciate it. I took some time to write it because I felt it was an important issue and didn't want to come across as some hothead who just says "OMFG U SUX".
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
1. If Parashock in all forms is Offensive, then Anti-Buff in all forms is Passive. Doesn't hurt you does it? Doesn't make all ur Imps fall out if I keep casting it? No. Passive.
Something doesn't have to deal damage to be offensive, look at Vet's ego. j/k :D
I wasn't referring to parashock's damage, i was referring to the way it leaves you vulnerable. In group battle, being holy paralysed or holy anti-buffed makes you extremely vulnerable, hence it's an offensive spell. It DOES hurt you. Damage boost is also offensive, but that's not imbalancing so I don't shout about that.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
2. You mentioned that u never felt so vulnerable as when there were Hybrids. You were probably one of the whinging brigade that got that nerfed.
Hybrids were overpowered, do you disagree? And thanks for calling me a whiner. Everybody on these forums complain about SOMETHING, so I guess everyone is a whiner.
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
I agree with Lexx
Some of u guys need to play a PPU to know what it's like.
lol
K.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
im rather gimped than pure(crap) :)
.cy
I thought you said apu were overpowered? Not their crap? Make up your mind.
Originally posted by wolfwood
welcome to a spies world
Exactly. That's why I feel spies are underpowered, I bet they feel like their against the odds all the time.
Originally posted by Selendor
Now, regardless of the logical and sensible position that Shadow has presented, this sentence immediately places the post in the realms of 'I died, I don't like it' classification.
I died due to snipers, CS, pain easers, etc......... I Die alot. I don't care about dying, because usually I know I could have done something to avoid it, I could have fought better, etc.....
Yet i'm only complaining about paralysis? I'm not just some "I died, I don't like it" whiner. Otherwise I would make a "I'd like an official response about Cursed Soul, Pain Easer, Explosive mod liberator, etc.... from KK/devs".
If the devs ignore the rest of my well thought-out post just because of that one line, then they are ignorant. And i doubt their ignorant. Hell when someone says "fuckin apus, I died in pepper park" I frown, but I still continue reading with an open mind.
Originally posted by Selendor
but I think you'll find that a post when the PPUs' themselves state that it needs to be changed will carry more weight with the decision makers.
Which will never happen. VERY VERY VERY few people who are part of the "overpowered" category will ever admit it. If the devs only listened to them, we would still have 1337 hybrids running around killing 3-4 tanks at the same time. That's why I prefer the devs don't listen to just people saying "xxx is overpowered' or "xxx is underpowered', they should just listen to the arguements and facts. Arguements and facts!
Side note. I don't think blacksun is overpowered. Vet said it's too easy to aim, has a large clip, and some other stuff. That sounds like what all pistols should be IMO.
Originally posted by Original monk
im posting ZZZZZZZzzzZZZzzzzzzz cause i know in advance this post goes about the nerfin of PPU's (or para) so its BORING in advance, please make a constructive post, or sumthing new (not a nerf post), and no i havent read this post, and i never will.
i suggest a new forumrule, whining about the same subject for over 25 billion times= immediate ban
***** ***** **** **** **** nerfs ***** you ******** and **** in **** ******* skull, ya hear me ?
This post is about as constructive as boxing with pillows.
Originally posted by Crest
4 pages of stuff, here is something you havn't thought about (I hope cause I am not reading the flamming).
Actually few people have posted any type of inflammatory remarks. This thread has actually gone pretty well.
Originally posted by Crest
The Spell is a defence spell. I agree it is also used in PvP and op wars, so how about this. The spell is only active when a weapon is drawn. So if you draw your weapn then you die, else you can run away and cry...You could also chase down the PPU but when you try and attack then you are slow again
You mean get paralyzed when you hit the ppu?
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
I want Shadow Dancers Holy whatever NERFED not anyone elses just his. Interms of PPU issues i think that spell is great primarily cause he doesnt like it
Why do you hate me Clothing? :p
Originally posted by Thormael
Please, if you ask PPU's wether they wanna keep parashock's damage, or stun, guess what they're gonna answer (my bet ain't on the crappy dmg).
omfg, that is so true. You're my hero.
Originally posted by evs
make ppu's self cast buffs even stronger/ heals better,
You can't possibly be serious..........O_o
Originally posted by Scikar
I don't think apus would be 10x the old hybrid, but I agree they would probably become a little too powerful in OP wars. I've been thinking (inspired by a friend) that maybe apus shouldn't runcast, but they should get better area effect weapons. Decrease the range a little on HL and FA, but only down to where toxic beam is currently (atm range-wise FA > HL > tox beam), and then improve AoE weapons for apus. If they can't runcast, they're gonna be fairly easy targets for more than one person at a time, and they won't last very long with no runcasting and just HL.
I suggest change Holy Thunderstorm into a kind of multi holy lightning (not my idea though I do like the sound of it :)). When you cast it several beams land around where you aim, sorta like you cast, and 3 or 4 fusion cannon shots come down out of the sky and land near where you aim, except they're lightning bolts (though they have AoE effect instead of direct damage). These bolts, being AoE, would not pass through terrain, so you could hide in a building for protection. The mana cost for this would of course be extreme, but it's not going to be too overpowering since the damage is spread over an area, even more so than tank AoE weapons. Basically it would make apus real artillery. :D
Something like this would make apus more of a support class, they're not so useful in a skirmish so much, but in an OP war where they can attack from cover they'll do what they're meant to do. In solo PvP apus would be at a disadvantage due to their lack of runcasting (which means apus will be weak if they get rushed at an OP war, especially since they won't have an easy time targetting anyone either if nobody is parashocked, while the apu is forced to walk in order to attack).
Horrible idea, sorry. Untill KK finds a way for an apu to be protected in a team with people other than a ppu, I don't want the apu being a "pure support" char that is useless 1v1, because then he would become totally dependant NOT on a team but only on a PPU.
Whereas the ppu simply needs other people, the apu will need a ppu. Horrible. Taking out run/casting? Why should apu be the only combat class without movement? Then he would be worse than the spy. Not only that but simply traveling anywhere without a ppu would be hazardous to our health since EVERYONE would be able to kill us without much of a fight and it's not like we can stealth.
Please. Cyl0n isn't saying remove runcasting out of real concern he's just still upset that his hybrid has been nerfed and he's just upset at me. That's why he said apus are overpowered in the other thread, but in this thread he says pures are crap(which has nothing to do with the topic,) then he says remove apu run/casting. If apus are crap, why remove run/casting?
Cyl0n is just another "angry ex-hybrid" nothing more.
@ the guy who said he'd gladly give up para if he could runcasr heal/shelt/def....well altho you cant run straight forward like an apu could...it is possible to do all 3 forementioned things...I can runcast all 3 if Im strafing which imo is almost as good, as Im not actually stopping to cast them or run backwards you can cast all 3 as well...
as far as totally removing it I dont think that should be considered...if there was a way tho that it could be only used on mobs and not runners that would be the best solution imho cause I do cave quite a bit and places like cristal cave and the swamp caves its like totally important.....just a thought
Originally posted by CRAIG DIGGERS
lol its the 15th thread of para ?
o_O
Hehe maybe you should make a 16th thread then a dev might answer. I hate to tell it but it doesn't look like they give a rat's ass. I got a ppu, and i don't have HP, but i know this: Take away tl3 heal trick and allow us to runcast, and then we are for the most part invincible, but also make HP like Paralysis Beam or something and make Anti-paralaysis drugs work.
Clothing_Option
16-09-03, 20:57
Why do you hate me Clothing?
quoute shadow dancer
--------------------------------------------------------
Hehehehehe
:D
Originally posted by Futureman
but also make HP like Paralysis Beam or something and make Anti-paralaysis drugs work.
I assume you mean parashock beam....if so I was looking on neocron.ems.ru and from theyre stats the only difference between HP and PB is 5 dmg they got parashock beam rated as doing 70 enr dmg and 80% stun for 35 seconds and they have holy para doing 75 enr dmg and stun 80% for 35 seconds...I cant comment on the accuracy of this but it doesnt seem the two are that for off from eachother so youre suggestion would not be doing a whole lot to change the situation
Deke_Warson
16-09-03, 21:02
I agree with the sentimants that is shoud be removed, but PPu's should then be given the ability to run cast shields and heals.
I used to think it was neccessary because it gave PPU's somthing more to do, but does kill PvP. We could have much longer and more ejoyable battles with out it. Just last night I was in an OP fight, and was beset by a Tank and PE. It was my Op and I had no intention of runnign. I enganed them, ran, strafed, juked, jumped, shot, actualy go to enjoy fighting for my base, then FREEZE!! CS CS CS CS *** CS CS CS CS *** CS CS CS CS **DB** CS dead. wow great fun.....
/e sex
/e sex
:p
@ evs - soul cluster does not count towards mission kills, take a rat mission, pull out booboo, 246 dmg to a rat, rat doesnt actually die, just stands there goin "wtf? weird", if it does eventually kill it, you still have to kill 5, because it doesnt count.
Also, for proto mission, there is a rank 55/55 mob with a frikin uzi u gotta kill, how dya expect a PPU to do the proto epic? Say "I'm PPU, i r ub3r, u must DIE DIE DIE!!!" and then watch it die? No, you damage boost it, and then cast your ickle parashock on it for 30 odd damage, with heals in between coz I dont have 66 int yet to use heavy belt.
At the moment, I'm using a mendicant smg, you want something nerfed, nerf pistols, I have 0 PC and 0 WL, I get 75% damage on that bugger and a rof of about 250+ I'm PPU, when I cap, my shelter and deflector will be damn nice, if I level up PC so I can cap damage on that thing (hey, PC 3 + Pistol Eye 2), you'll be bitching "nerf pistols" anyway. And thats what this is, a nerf, trying to remove something because you die. So, lets remove all mob's, give everyone an LE, then all will be happy cause parashock wont kill you (actually, parashock doesnt kill, its the other person with the monk that tends to kill you :rolleyes: ) and mobs wont kill you, so we'll all be happy in carebear land :p
No, keep Parashock in, or make it so a PPU gets as much exp from using a holy heal on someone, as they do using a similar level spell on a 50/50 mob. N stop tryin to nerf the class I like :p
Originally posted by Deke_Warson
I agree with the sentimants that is shoud be removed, but PPu's should then be given the ability to run cast shields and heals.
we do have that ability....I do it all the time, albeit Im not running straight forward, but you can still move and cast those spells succesfully if youve capped them that is
Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 21:19
Lexxuk what about making paralyze PvM only?
ghandisfury
16-09-03, 22:51
Capped PPU here (aside from int), and I have to say that holy para's consept is the worst thing that has ever entered any game, but before it is removed there also need to be some other fixes.
#1 True sight sanctum needs to have a range of 60 meters from the PPU, and a one tick every two seconds.
#2 PPUs need to be able to runcast thier weapons (I call them weapons because that's all we have). Every other class can run/shoot their uber-weapons-O-fear, we should have the same luxxery.
#3 High TL shields/deflectors/heals should NOT over-ride low level heals. If I'm not able to cast and watch my buffs, and time them correctly, then I have no buisiness being a PPU.
#4 Different skins need to be added for shelter/deflector so we can tell them appart at a glance.
#5 Antiposion sanctum needs to take half the mana, and cast twice as fast (Yet another thing I'll have to make room for in my belt *sigh*).
#6 Antibuff should give some sort of warning to both the PPU and the opposition that he has been debuffed. This would give stop the spamming of poison to hide a debuff, and would also tell the attackers that it's time to cast a low level spell.
So ya, basically HP needs to be removed. I can think of only two occasions when I cast it for defence, and more lately because because of the insane ROF and range on antibuff, but on the other hand, I wouldn't have needed it if I weren't parashocked myself ;) .
Just my two cents....I know I'll get argued with. Great post Arc...still no reply from the devs.:(
Shadow Dancer
16-09-03, 22:57
wtf Ghandi you were the one who spammed me with it.
Anyways, thanks for bumping my post.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Capped PPU here (aside from int), and I have to say that holy para's consept is the worst thing that has ever entered any game, but before it is removed there also need to be some other fixes.
#1 True sight sanctum needs to have a range of 60 meters from the PPU, and a one tick every two seconds.
Or they could just make it work while moving.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
#2 PPUs need to be able to runcast thier weapons (I call them weapons because that's all we have). Every other class can run/shoot their uber-weapons-O-fear, we should have the same luxxery.
Sure why not.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
#3 High TL shields/deflectors/heals should NOT over-ride low level heals. If I'm not able to cast and watch my buffs, and time them correctly, then I have no buisiness being a PPU.
I agree.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
#5 Antiposion sanctum needs to take half the mana, and cast twice as fast (Yet another thing I'll have to make room for in my belt *sigh*).
Uhh no comment.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
#6 Antibuff should give some sort of warning to both the PPU and the opposition that he has been debuffed. This would give stop the spamming of poison to hide a debuff, and would also tell the attackers that it's time to cast a low level spell.
What kind of warning, what do you mean?
Isn't the big discoball warning enough? :p
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Just my two cents....I know I'll get argued with. Great post Arc...still not reply.
thnx
SigmaDraconis
16-09-03, 23:53
PvP..and shock......2 things..that should not be within 400,000,000 miles of each other..yet in NC they go hand in hand.
The biggest complaint seems to be about killing mobs as a PPU...ok..remove paras..totally...yes totally..SEVERLY up damage and RoF on SC's...and make them do damage PvM only. Yea yur still gonna kill it slower then a tank or PE, but wtf do you expect...YOU chose to be PPU.
btw.. I agree 100% with everything SD said...even the anti-buff comparison.. hell I even agree with all of his replies to your comments..
wow..now that I think about it that makes me wanna blow the back of my skull out. :(
As a PPU you can stop and cast or strafe and cast for a split second and cast all of yur spells (rare sanctums not included) and on everyones screen if you do it right..you never stop moving...good ol lag and server positioning ^^
Made a poll about holy para
Click here to vote on it (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75676)
Originally posted by ghandisfury
#3 High TL shields/deflectors/heals should NOT over-ride low level heals. If I'm not able to cast and watch my buffs, and time them correctly, then I have no buisiness being a PPU.
#4 Different skins need to be added for shelter/deflector so we can tell them appart at a glance.
#5 Antiposion sanctum needs to take half the mana, and cast twice as fast (Yet another thing I'll have to make room for in my belt *sigh*).
#6 Antibuff should give some sort of warning to both the PPU and the opposition that he has been debuffed. This would give stop the spamming of poison to hide a debuff, and would also tell the attackers that it's time to cast a low level spell.
you say that if you cant keep track of youre buffs that you have no business being a PPU, then you go on to say you want a warning to say youve been debuffed....kinda stupid and ironic Id say......
also all PPU spell skins need reworked because every single PP rare aside from HP looks exactly the same, not to mention holy antidote, its a pain in the ass when u hit the wrong spell only to find out instead of using holy antidote to rid youreself of the 80 stacks of poison a APU just put on u Ive done casted something else that just wiped my whole mana pool...as far as shelter and DEF I know my quickbelt by heart i dont need a skin change for those as they never leave theyre respective slot in my belt...but the rares and items that are usually changed out(rares, antidote, etc etc) yes please make some skins hell Id take a skin that just had the initials like HTTS(holy tru site sanc) HAPS(holy antiposn sanc) etc etc that would be infintely more conveinent I mean a tank or APU or any other class doesnt have to say..."oh shit is that my lib or my judge" "is that my cursed soul or my moonstriker"
I think you guys get the picture..........
and sure removing Para totally or making it only PvM would totally negate the fact that Id need it...but I do think its very helpful in PvM if they could encorporate that into an PvM only weapon then hell yes by all means do it...but dont totally remove it Ive found it too helpful against small fast moving mobs and noone can disagree with that........
ghandisfury
17-09-03, 00:31
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
wtf Ghandi you were the one who spammed me with it.
It's possible, but don't take it personally. I spam everybody...tanks, PEs, spies, PPUs, APUs, NPCs, and if I ever find MJS logged in, I'll do my best to spam him to death. Why? Because I want all of the comunity to loath this spell as much as I do. I want every person in NC to hate the absolute helpless fealing this spell gives you. I don't stop fighting if there's a PPU around because he can rez/heal/etc....I stop becaue I know I'm going to be parashocked to death.
As far as my other "fixes"....I knew you wouldn't agree with them, but with due cause.
I honestly think the only way PPUs will ever be balanced is for two things to happen.
#1. Remove parashock, add in some aggresive (very mild) spells for PVM, and the occasional stupid runner that wants to pick a fight.
#2 Remove all Holy heals/shelters/deflectors...yadda yadda.....and only leave sanctums. This would make the team HAVE to stay with the PPU to servive....and, 1vs1 fights would still be 1vs1 if the both sides people stayed near the PPU.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 00:36
Originally posted by ghandisfury
#1. Remove parashock, add in some aggresive (very mild) spells for PVM, and the occasional stupid runner that wants to pick a fight.
#2 Remove all Holy heals/shelters/deflectors...yadda yadda.....and only leave sanctums. This would make the team HAVE to stay with the PPU to servive....and, 1vs1 fights would still be 1vs1 if the both sides people stayed near the PPU.
1.I agree.
2.Wow, uhh that would be pretty radical. I don't know. Actually i had a similar idea, I was gonna propose that the ppu's teammates are only buffed if he is. It's very similar to yours. What do you think about that?
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 00:39
Only if team = group spell effect / sanctum spell effect
unless unteamed which = normal effect (all)(standard now).
ghandisfury
17-09-03, 00:42
First of all, sorry for the double post if I did.
Originally posted by extract
you say that if you cant keep track of youre buffs that you have no business being a PPU, then you go on to say you want a warning to say youve been debuffed....kinda stupid and ironic Id say......
No, I said that everybody needs the same warning so they know when to cast low level buffs, but I also deserve the same warning if I've been stacked with so many poison stacks that I can not see my own buffs.
Originally posted by extract
also all PPU spell skins need reworked because every single PP rare aside from HP looks exactly the same, not to mention holy antidote, its a pain in the ass when u hit the wrong spell only to find out instead of using holy antidote to rid youreself of the 80 stacks of poison a APU just put on u Ive done casted something else that just wiped my whole mana pool...
I agree, but the only thing that you could cast increctly (that wouldn't remove those 80 stacks of poison) would be true sight....and it has a little purple swirly.
Originally posted by extract
as far as shelter and DEF I know my quickbelt by heart i dont need a skin change for those as they never leave theyre respective slot in my belt
I know exaclty where all of my spells are as well....I don't think there is a PPU that doesn't. However, they need different skins because if I've been anti-sheltered, and I didn't see the APU cast it, I need to search through two spells to find which one dropped.
Originally posted by extract
mean a tank or APU or any other class doesnt have to say..."oh shit is that my lib or my judge" "is that my cursed soul or my moonstriker"
Well said.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 00:42
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Only if team = group spell effect / sanctum spell effect
unless unteamed which = normal effect (all)(standard now).
http://www.ihateaol.co.uk/misc/galleries/show.php/640x640//funnypics/manuel.jpg
Originally posted by Richard Slade
I only got one thing to say (didn't have the time to read it all just a few replies)
A damn PPU should NOT be able to kill a warbot under any circumstances since that would destroy the whole point of being PPU
PPU = Teamwork
If yer a PPU yer a support class
Means u support OTHERS while they do the heavy shit
Oh the day that happen is the day ppu become very scarce PPU's should be able to lvl on there own, for which the SC is fine :)
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I agree, but the only thing that you could cast increctly (that wouldn't remove those 80 stacks of poison) would be true sight....and it has a little purple swirly.
yea spose youre right but I can cast holy antidote at 52/min where as everything else is at least 6/min or slightly more(would me more if I could be assed to lom away implant back to psi use for when i capped dex), and any decne tamount of stacks would already cause the dmg to be done had I casted anything other than antidote, point is it doesnt matter if I incorrectly casted...if the spells were a little more descriptive of what they really were instead of that stupid parashock blast icon then it wouldnt be an issue at all
this thread might go somewhere if everyone agrees that para can stay in game but only be used in PvM situations, as that seems like a legitamate fix and would deal with ALL of the current problems
Originally posted by Shakari
Oh the day that happen is the day ppu become very scarce PPU's should be able to lvl on there own, for which the SC is fine :)
are you high? the only soulclusters that do any significant dmg are the 88/88 and 93/93 which lead you to get shit for money...you dont get NO XP from them...and if youre using them to hunt for rares *inserts the most abnoxious laugh* chances are with a SC at 93/93 you can expect jack shit for loot...so no Im gonna have to disagree that a SC is possibly the worst idea for a PPU to lvl solo...(but why would a PPU want to lvl solo anyways....)
ghandisfury
17-09-03, 00:57
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
2.Wow, uhh that would be pretty radical. I don't know. Actually i had a similar idea, I was gonna propose that the ppu's teammates are only buffed if he is. It's very similar to yours. What do you think about that?
One big problem would be that antibuff would be WAY overpowered then (imo).
The only reason I was thinking sanctums was for the fact that a PPU wouldn't be to overpowering at OP wars...and if you think about it, you wouldn't realy need one at all. If everyone stayed by the PPU, they would all recieve the same bonus, aside from rezzerect. Heals would be selfcast only, and sanctums would have to be completly reworked. But I guarentee you, you wouldn't feel so helpless if the opposing side had a PPU, and you didn't.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 01:01
Originally posted by ghandisfury
One big problem would be that antibuff would be WAY overpowered then (imo).
Oops, yea you're right.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
The only reason I was thinking sanctums was for the fact that a PPU wouldn't be to overpowering at OP wars...and if you think about it, you wouldn't realy need one at all. If everyone stayed by the PPU, they would all recieve the same bonus, aside from rezzerect. Heals would be selfcast only, and sanctums would have to be completly reworked. But I guarentee you, you wouldn't feel so helpless if the opposing side had a PPU, and you didn't.
That still seems pretty radical. hrmzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz gotta think!
Why don't you propose it as a new thread?
ghandisfury
17-09-03, 01:36
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Why don't you propose it as a new thread?
#1 I will get flaimed from here to high heaven.
#2 NOBODY will believe I'm a PPU.
#3 All the other PPUs will say "but but we need it for defence...and wtf, you don't know what you're talking about etc..."
As I said when I first met you mate, monks are unbalanced (remember the debuff weapons :p)....I don't know how to fix it....I'll just keep enjoying the game, and eating LOMs till KK makes "monks alshimer ward" *goes to the store for more beer*....
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 01:40
Originally posted by ghandisfury
#1 I will get flaimed from here to high heaven.
#2 NOBODY will believe I'm a PPU.
#3 All the other PPUs will say "but but we need it for defence...and wtf, you don't know what you're talking about etc..."
As I said when I first met you mate, monks are unbalanced (remember the debuff weapons :p)....I don't know how to fix it....I'll just keep enjoying the game, and eating LOMs till KK makes "monks alshimer ward" *goes to the store for more beer*....
#1.Now you know how I feel. :p
#2.So? :p
#3.Hehe yea ur right. :(
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 01:57
My comment was to say that anyone outside team would not be effected by the sanctums unless the ppu themselves were not teamed.
This would pretty much negate any abuse/balance issues.
However, this would mean that with 100% garauntee things like TL 9 Crahn Heal Sanctum CANNOT Over-ride Holy Heal Sanctum on any circumstance.
Then, I would entertain it as being balanced :P
...Of course, you do realise this would be the end of the holy anti-buff, all it would do would be cancel direct heals?
Hmm, Parashock wouldn't be that much of an issue with this in effect either.
Also, Damage boost should be kept as a weapon... (I would say it should be given to the APU but PPU are not the only class to use DB..)
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 02:00
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
...Of course, you do realise this would be the end of the holy anti-buff, all it would do would be cancel direct heals?
They could give us another spell as compensation.
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 02:04
I'm guessing you're not objecting to my comment on team effecting spells? heh.
Uhh, Sure APUs can have a spell to counter the "loss" (I mean, it's still usable on PEs I guess), but... err.... since sanctums cost in some cases 306ish mana, I don't think you guys should get a anti-sanctum spell.
mmmmm..... maybe damage charge, or the fabeled vampire attack.... or the good old fire bubble :PPP
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 02:06
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I'm guessing you're not objecting to my comment on team effecting spells? heh.
I didn't understand your quote.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
or the fabeled vampire attack.... or the good old fire bubble :PPP
YES!
OR IMPROVED AOE!
I think it's fair that there should be some warning when antibuff is casted (not just the discoball when you charge it, but an added effect when it finishes). Some effect which would be like an aura around the person it was casted on which fades away after a few seconds. The ppu could see it and know he needs to rebuff, and the apu's team can see it and know they have a window to kill the ppu.
I think it's also fair if ppus can runcast shelt/def, but they should need to stop or at least slow down to heal.
TBH I reckon KK is going to do something about parashock fairly soon, like hybrids it's just a matter of time. The options are to contribute to discussions like this and find a solution which everyone agrees on, or you can do what the hybrids did, and pretend there's nothing wrong, so when KK comes in to make some changes you have absolutely 0 input, and you get a big nerf slap.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Please. Cyl0n isn't saying remove runcasting out of real concern he's just still upset that his hybrid has been nerfed and he's just upset at me. That's why he said apus are overpowered in the other thread, but in this thread he says pures are crap(which has nothing to do with the topic,) then he says remove apu run/casting. If apus are crap, why remove run/casting?
Cyl0n is just another "angry ex-hybrid" nothing more.
arc...:rolleyes:
you said pms .. :rolleyes:
anyway...i still think apus are overpowerd with runcast / range and dmg...ppus are unkillable....so..
i personally think pure monks are crap cause i dont like waiting for the other part ( ppu or apu ) to come and help me lvl / pk .
this is just my opinion .. i dont like the whole pure monk thing...
and well yes im angry at KK how they killed my hybrid... today i tried to lom to hybrid again and tested... after a few hours i decided to lom my rest ppu and try being apu now ( after some weeks of ppu boredom )...
and im upset at you ? why should i ? o_O
i know what you are and what you think about me.. so what ?
tbh after this posting i think you are the one who's upset o_O
anyway.. who cares..
and yes if they remove para but keep antibuffs in... runcasting apus will own every op fight...even more than pure monks in general do imo..
i like scikars idea a lot... but i think they need to make something protect your team then.. like your "artillery" doesnt hurt your own team or something... if not you're gonna kill your own team too easily :) ( damn bugged aoe dmg.. i hate 1st person too btw :D )
.cy
Originally posted by Scikar
I think it's fair that there should be some warning when antibuff is casted (not just the discoball when you charge it, but an added effect when it finishes). Some effect which would be like an aura around the person it was casted on which fades away after a few seconds. The ppu could see it and know he needs to rebuff, and the apu's team can see it and know they have a window to kill the ppu.
I think it's also fair if ppus can runcast shelt/def, but they should need to stop or at least slow down to heal.
TBH I reckon KK is going to do something about parashock fairly soon, like hybrids it's just a matter of time. The options are to contribute to discussions like this and find a solution which everyone agrees on, or you can do what the hybrids did, and pretend there's nothing wrong, so when KK comes in to make some changes you have absolutely 0 input, and you get a big nerf slap.
yea maybe something like a bar... like buffs wearing off ..showing you the process of someone antibuffing you.. not the direction or player name tho :)
it'll still be hard to see in an hectic op fight but it would be cool for sure ...
/e .. on the other side this may be too extreme .. hmmm or something like a bar in red blinking once 1 or 2 secs before you are antibuffed :)
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
yea maybe something like a bar... like buffs wearing off ..showing you the process of someone antibuffing you.. not the direction or player name tho :)
it'll still be hard to see in an hectic op fight but it would be cool for sure ...
/e .. on the other side this may be too extreme .. hmmm or something like a bar in red blinking once 1 or 2 secs before you are antibuffed :)
.cy
Lol actually I was thinking of a big glowy thing about twice the size of the player or something. :p
Originally posted by Scikar
Lol actually I was thinking of a big glowy thing about twice the size of the player or something. :p
bleh im sleepy ... it was just an idea *g* :p
Apu's will own without holy paralysis?
Nice thought, but in what way a class who has no buffs, needs others to heal or buff up, will own in OP wars without para's?
Cyclon I am starting to think like Shadow about you... seems like as your hybrid got nerfed, now it's a crusade to nerf Shadow Dancer's class or somewhat.
So you see apu's overpowered now, however while you have been a ppu, you seem to have seen ppu's and para's perfect. Damn, sounds like hypocricy to me.
I am aware of certain issues regarding the range of apu's, that due the default clipping distance, can be unbalanced respect other classes within their roles and ranges...
But isnt the apu meant to have the best offence in the game, combined with the worst defence? what's wrong with the apu damage then?
And dont tell me that we have a very good defence; dont make me post here some PE and Spy setups, which even can be combined with stealth.
I am starting to be pissed of your pointless comments of overpower here or there.
APU's are not a support class defined by KK, and unless they say otherwise take out that idea from your head. The apu is the mid range fighter, like the HC tank is suppossed to be, but dealing more damage, and without the capability to take as much damage.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 04:31
Originally posted by Sleawer
Apu's will own without holy paralysis?
Nice thought, but in what way a class who has no buffs, needs others to heal or buff up, will own in OP wars without para's?
I know. No one mentions our gimp mana, gimp force(explosive lib=no chance to survive against someone with half decent aim), lack of buffs(i can't PSI 1 combat myself to get 25 free psi points bonus into apu :rolleyes: ) and lack of good healing capability.
How come kramer manages to kill apus in team battles? Or other good players? Puh leeze, overpowered in op wars my ass. And anyone who says apus shouldn't get run/casting, OMFG no respect for you seriously. They will become the most gimped class in existence.
KidWithStick
17-09-03, 04:45
get rid of paraSPAM or nerf the shit out of it...its just tooooo dummmmb
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 09:46
Uhhh thanks Kid, :eek: .
Any KK members reading this? Can I get a response? Pretty please? :angel:
If i were APU i would be pissed about the fact that Antibuff is basically crap, and that tanks, PEs and Spies, have their own TL3 antibuff, which is much easier to get and isn't rare.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 10:15
Originally posted by Futureman
If i were APU i would be pissed about the fact that Antibuff is basically crap, and that tanks, PEs and Spies, have their own TL3 antibuff, which is much easier to get and isn't rare.
It isn't crap, it's just too much high mana cost. And holy antibuff is bugged as well. IMO the anti spells should make the ppu unable to self-cast buffs for like 3 seconds. But that's another thread. :p
I'd gladly trade in my Holy Para for APUs to get slower RoF on their spells (ALOT SLOWER):)
No i know antibuff isn't crap, but don't you think it sucks that APUs don't have the option of using a low tech def like every other class, but instead have to use a rare that takes a shitload of mana, where as a tank can slap on a tl 3 heal and deflector and then his problems are over.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
and yes if they remove para but keep antibuffs in... runcasting apus will own every op fight...
i dont agree with that. im a pe and when fighting an apu i have a fair chance of winning.
back on topic:
i really agree that hp influences the pvp too much. as a pe i can stealth away, but a gentank cant go anywhere (imagine a pe with high agil/atl running around you while you cant do anything). i think the best would be to replace the pn by an alternative spell, mayB a spell which gives huge agil/atl boost but prevents from using any other spell, so you can "get away"
DarK | Cid
17-09-03, 12:38
Removing parashocks would help PPUs tremendously. Getting shocked is damn annoying even when I can remove it quickly and for almost no mana... can imagine how it would not be very fun for the other classes.
I don't really understand why any PPU doesn't want parashock removed. O.O
Most of the time PPU's APU's and 'those other classes' work together and use their parashock, antibuff, and lowgrade spells. If even one of those factors was taken out, it would be much harder to kill me or any other PPU. It'd also remove something that I have to worry about as a PPU, making my job easier.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
It isn't crap, it's just too much high mana cost. And holy antibuff is bugged as well. IMO the anti spells should make the ppu unable to self-cast buffs for like 3 seconds. But that's another thread. :p
Least it's only 1 high mana costing spell eh and then a barrel if you use it pvp wise o_O
/me casts cath sanctum.... chomps a booster, casts buffs, chomps a booster see stealther spies cast Truesight Chomp booster..
Truesight + cath sanc is around 500 odd mana alone then add that with 50 a cast holy heal and 80 a cast shelter, deflects.... eeeeek
We all have our high costers :p
yeah removing para would make my task easier, one less job to do but i'd expect some nice defensive replacement but runcasting buffs will always remain my fave alt to para....
Originally posted by DarK | Cid
Removing parashocks would help PPUs tremendously. Getting shocked is damn annoying even when I can remove it quickly and for almost no mana... can imagine how it would not be very fun for the other classes.
I don't really understand why any PPU doesn't want parashock removed. O.O
Most of the time PPU's APU's and 'those other classes' work together and use their parashock, antibuff, and lowgrade spells. If even one of those factors was taken out, it would be much harder to kill me or any other PPU. It'd also remove something that I have to worry about as a PPU, making my job easier.
Yeah but if you can get holy antibuff nerfed, the ability to runcast all your spells, and nerf apu RoF at the same time, why not try it? :rolleyes:
I swear some people seem to think that when you nerfed an overpowered aspect you have to give the nerfed class something in return to avoid upsetting them. :rolleyes:
EDIT: LTA try HL, HL, HL, booster, wait 3 seconds, antibuff, booster, HL, HL, HL, booster, HL drains faster than booster refills and you can't cast anything, parashock dead. ;)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Lexxuk what about making paralyze PvM only?
/e sex again rawr :D
couldnt comment on that, as I havent really played my PPU monk in an aggressive PvP style. If I think "sure" because it suits my style of play, that would be wrong of me, to assume something is correct because of my style. That would be like a pistol PE saying black sun is perfect, because it suits their style of play, or a ray of god perfect, because of their style of play. I think the pain easer is damn near perfect, could do with a slightly higher ROF and a little more damage, but its pretty damn close to perfection.
As it stands though, parashock should not be removed, it should be balanced, and counter effects should be balanced. In removing an entire subclass of "tool" you in effect, remove the only rare "tool" my PPU has, and also one of the best ways to piss off warbots and hoverbots :D
Removal isnt a solution, you'd just find more things to complain about afterwards, PPU's would start bitching (probably as hard as PE's bitched about lib's, probably harder). KK itself is in a no win situation, do they remove parashock, and probably kill off an entire class, which in turn will kill off high level mob huntin (no PPU's, no shelter/rez). Cause I for one, would delete my PPU in seconds, if I didnt have my parashock ability, lots would delete it if they didnt have their parashock ability for PvP. The game would suffer, and why? Because PPU'ing is stressful, no reward, no gain. Last night I PPU's a friend APU, about 30 ranks lower than me, no team EXP, for several hours, I got nothing out of it, except a little con exp :lol: in warzones, PPU's would be like "ok, I'll stand here, do fuck all and be your bitch, k? ya, lets pay a tenner a month so I can do nowt, whilst you have all the fun".
So, balance it, balance anti-shocks, decrease the shock ability factor, until it works fine, test it on the test server, cause the last time the community bitched about something, it was Hybrids, and look what happened there - the entire class got killed off. Kill off PPU's at your own peril.
How about increased mana cost, and reduced shock effect and RoF, but stacks? Kinda like stacking damage boost on a mob 3 times to get the full effect, you'd shock a player more than once to slow him down more. The mana cost to slow someone down to current HP level would be horrific, but shocking them once should be enough to give your team mates the advantage.
if ppu holy para is nerfed then so should apu rof and cs rof, black sun clip should be reduced to 20 and the tl should be raise to 90, pe armour should be fucking remodeled and provide bonus that make up for the pe's lack of offence, tank powerr armour resists should be raised slightly if cs rof is crapperd
rawr!
Originally posted by REMUS
if ppu holy para is nerfed then so should apu rof and cs rof, black sun clip should be reduced to 20 and the tl should be raise to 90, pe armour should be fucking remodeled and provide bonus that make up for the pe's lack of offence, tank powerr armour resists should be raised slightly if cs rof is crapperd
rawr!
Way to prove my point.
Wouldnt make much of a difference really, I'm 77 base PSI on my Pluto PPU, and have about 350 mana, increase mana cost to 50 per blast, thats 7 Holy Para blasts, increase it to 100, and I can still triple blast it, but, then not have any mana left over to fulfill the support role of a PPU. APU's are easy, they find the spell they want, from three types, fire, nrg or pos, PPU's have to toggle heal, shelter, deflector, resists boosters, weapon boosters, ressurection....
Look at a APU's belt sometime, probably contains 2 spells, 7 psi boosters and a medkit. Loot at a PPU's, between 8 or 10 slots will be filled with much needed spells, for their support role, increasing mana cost, would mean you have two types of PPU, the support PPU, and the attack PPU who would gear up just for Parashock, with a holy heal, and not support people. Like I say, its a bad situation for KK, totally fuck up PPU's, or balance parashock, or just say "deal with it tm " :p
Originally posted by Scikar
Way to prove my point.
god i could almost call this spam becuase i dont know wtf are u talking about u mumbleing fool
if you ment apu rof nerf i ment toxic beam and hl, they really sting im only talking like maybe a nerf of between 5-10 permin off the cap fun.
Originally posted by Scikar
EDIT: LTA try HL, HL, HL, booster, wait 3 seconds, antibuff, booster, HL, HL, HL, booster, HL drains faster than booster refills and you can't cast anything, parashock dead. ;)
heh try Cath sanctum, shelter, Shelter, Deflect, Defelct, Heal heal, etc all while coming under heavy fire.... at least to start 1 cast of hl you need like 25 mana or something close, i need the booster to replenish 55 before i can cast hh, replenish 80 before i can cast shelt...
Makes battles tense for..... and on top of that i have to spam paras on everyone :p
I'd prefer antibuffin and chompin a booster running a few extra secsa for ti to kick than trying to keep myself and everyone alive while waiting for it to kick :p
Originally posted by REMUS
god i could almost call this spam becuase i dont know wtf are u talking about u mumbleing fool
if you ment apu rof nerf i ment toxic beam and hl, they really sting im only talking like maybe a nerf of between 5-10 permin off the cap fun.
Read the thread again, then you'll notice I posted, just a little before you did,
Originally posted by Scikar
I swear some people seem to think that when you nerfed an overpowered aspect you have to give the nerfed class something in return to avoid upsetting them. :rolleyes:
...and you then posted immediately afterwards:
Originally posted by REMUS
if ppu holy para is nerfed then so should apu rof and cs rof, black sun clip should be reduced to 20 and the tl should be raise to 90, pe armour should be fucking remodeled and provide bonus that make up for the pe's lack of offence, tank powerr armour resists should be raised slightly if cs rof is crapperd
... hence proving my point.
Originally posted by Sleawer
But isnt the apu meant to have the best offence in the game, combined with the worst defence? what's wrong with the apu damage then?
:rolleyes:
sleawer.. you got pm
Answered. And refrain to post your rolleyes or we will start a flame war.
Originally posted by Scikar
Read the thread again, then you'll notice I posted, just a little before you did,
...and you then posted immediately afterwards:
... hence proving my point.
i dont know i was trying to balence things, sorry for being arsey i jsut had to sit thru head boy and girl speachs
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 17:56
Originally posted by LTA
heh try Cath sanctum, shelter, Shelter, Deflect, Defelct, Heal heal, etc all while coming under heavy fire.... at least to start 1 cast of hl you need like 25 mana or something close, i need the booster to replenish 55 before i can cast hh, replenish 80 before i can cast shelt...
Makes battles tense for..... and on top of that i have to spam paras on everyone :p
I'd prefer antibuffin and chompin a booster running a few extra secsa for ti to kick than trying to keep myself and everyone alive while waiting for it to kick :p
More or less.
As i said - u cant nerf para with mana cost -- what happens if u nerf the rof ?- I dunno if ppl can get around that one, dont think so. AND before u do anything remove tl3 heal and crap casting -override lower spells with higher level ones - this HAS to be done.
Apus tho are really a very easy class to play and kill tanks easily 1 v 1 at close and mid range, so yea honestly they do need a little nerf - rof would maybe be the best again.
Why are the effects of Holy Para soooo bad?
I don't understand it.
How does it ruin PvP? If you're gonna take a High Level PPU on by yourself you're just plain dumb. Not because he will kill you (and in all likelyhood he won't) but his class has determined that he is the best protected class in the game and you cannot take him down.
If a PPU kills you with his spells and takes the 15 minutes it takes to do it, its not because he's overpowered, its because he doesn't like you.
I agree that a PPU can make a difference in a fight between 2 teams if one team doesn't have a ppu in it. But that means that before the fight started the odds were stacked against you.
Put urself in team combat at say an OP fight where both sides are fairly equal. If you're shocked, ur temporarily taken out of the fight. But only temporarily. Its up to your team-mates to cover your arse while you're incapacitated. Something that people miss is that PPU's can be shocked too. Once a PPU is shocked, he can be very easily taken out of the fight altogether.
Someone said 'Get some skillz' and he's right.
If not get some mates with some skillz.
PPU's are not this indestructable freeze machine that people make them out to be. They can be killed, and freeze won't kill you. The big blue guy with the CS and the little Jawa with the shiny hands and the PE with the Swirly that kills ya.
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 18:49
Holy Paralysis is bad because it _nearly_ is the same as "Holy Death." :P
However, I think that there is more than just the issue of Holy Para at hand. ZigZag and LTA are correct (which is why I quoted LTAs post), PPU spells cost more, have several times higher chance of failing, take longer to cast, and generally are defencive.
Holy Para is one of the only REAL WAYS to counter Holy Anti-buff with a decent chance of re-sheltering before being rained on, in one on one situations, at least.
Mortice, PPUs are meant to be damn near unkillable, and good ones are to anything other than an army, or a well trained APU+One.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Wouldnt make much of a difference really, I'm 77 base PSI on my Pluto PPU, and have about 350 mana, increase mana cost to 50 per blast, thats 7 Holy Para blasts, increase it to 100, and I can still triple blast it, but, then not have any mana left over to fulfill the support role of a PPU. APU's are easy, they find the spell they want, from three types, fire, nrg or pos, PPU's have to toggle heal, shelter, deflector, resists boosters, weapon boosters, ressurection....
Look at a APU's belt sometime, probably contains 2 spells, 7 psi boosters and a medkit. Loot at a PPU's, between 8 or 10 slots will be filled with much needed spells, for their support role, increasing mana cost, would mean you have two types of PPU, the support PPU, and the attack PPU who would gear up just for Parashock, with a holy heal, and not support people. Like I say, its a bad situation for KK, totally fuck up PPU's, or balance parashock, or just say "deal with it tm " :p PPUs have a wider choice of spells, but APUs' life in fight ain't that easy. First to choose from 3 spells type they need at least 3 spells (yay, big surprise). + if they wanna be somewhat useful they need some antibuff, cause fighting shielded people who're getting healed and antidoted is quite useless. Then they need antishock drugs in their belts, cause if they slow down, they die, because of ppus. + End boosters, no end = you walk = you're dead. More often than not, having an antidote drug and a damage breaker help, cause you only live a few seconds when you're taking damage, might as well try to lower it unless you got godly PPUs who remove all poisons and boosters from their teammates asap. Then of course they need psi boosters cause they deplete their psi pool in seconds. Medikits help too... Often you gotta make a choice.
I don't think APUs are that easy to play, and I don't mean, run, cast a couple spells and wait for res. PPUs are extremely tough, and by their sole presence make their whole team more than twice better. Even without parashock. It's more than any other class can say.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 18:58
Originally posted by Lexxuk
KK itself is in a no win situation, do they remove parashock, and probably kill off an entire class, which in turn will kill off high level mob huntin (no PPU's, no shelter/rez).
wow, sorry I'm not gonna bother responding to any of your points anymore when you make gross exaggerations like this.
Originally posted by ZigZag
Apus tho are really a very easy class to play and kill tanks easily 1 v 1 at close and mid range, so yea honestly they do need a little nerf - rof would maybe be the best again.
And tanks can kill them easily as well. So can pes using pain easer or lib with force mod.
RoF nerf=impact on our damage dealing ability
So once again are upset about the damage dealing class dealing too much.
Also everyone screams nerf, but they have no problem with us having lack of healing ability, bad mana pool, unable to cast ANY low level buffs, etc...
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Holy Para is one of the only REAL WAYS to counter Holy Anti-buff with a decent chance of re-sheltering before being rained on, in one on one situations, at least.
Sorry thats bs.
A good ppu can easily shelter up and then heal. And the thing is that's 260 mana down the drain for apus, and they are "safe" until the apu's gimp mana pool refills. Furthermore a fast running NON paralyze-able ppu(if para is removed) is extremely hard to kill even with holy anti-buff.
Did you know that a ppu can cast shelter before even getting hit? I've done it once against polarity. I debuffed her and IMMEDIATELY switched to HL and she cast shelter while HL was coming down from the sky, and when it actually hit her she was already sheltered.
I can't believe you would make such a comment QD. "one on one situations, at least" WTF??? A good ppu won't die 1v1 PERIOD. They can shelter up too fast, and the apu can't do anything about it, and if the apu is dumb enough to hit them when they have shelter on, ppffttt. Please, real way to counter holy antibuff. pffttt
And team battles, do you know how hard it is to kill a ppu who is running fast and KNOWS you're antibuffing? A ppu can PAY ATTENTION and be aware, especially since the apu has a huge disco ball.
And zizag and others, this topic is about parashock and parashock only. If you wanna make at thread about apus doing too much damage, then please do so.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Holy Paralysis is bad because it _nearly_ is the same as "Holy Death." :P Exactly, it's the most dangerous weapon in game, easily. That's why it's bad, you get shot with it you die extremely fast...
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
wow, sorry I'm not gonna bother responding to any of your points anymore when you make gross exaggerations like this.
Not an exaggeration at all. Remove my Parashock, I remove my PPU, simple as that, I'm not going to play a game where the only style of play accepted, is the style by whinger's, I'll happily cancel the account my PPU is on, and just use the 2nd account I'm getting as a PE.
Whiner's already totally destroyed the hybrid class "we cant beat them, whinge whinge whine whine", so KK destroyed the class. Everyone whinges "PPU's r too strong" so they fiddle with the spells, make them worth less when cast on other people than they were (50% less), now your whinin to remove Parashock, when under your name it says "PPU Killer" which tends to suggest, you kill PPU's, so obviously, you have no problem killing them, even with this overpowering unbalanced spell
Problem is, you want to play the game your way, and in doing so, you want to take out other peoples ways of playing the game that stop you playing it the way you want to.
That happened to me aswell, with a good timing and being aware of the intention to be debuffed, a good ppu can reshelter before getting shot by the apu. In one on one situations, that's it.
Holy Antibuff is a tactic spell, usefull against ppu's that run in panic when see it, or when you are in a team with combined pierce/elemental attacks.
It's easy and fast to recast a shelter, but not that easy to recast shelter/deflector... that's the only reason because holy antibuff>holy antishield.
If the ppu is running catharsis sanctum... puh; In this case I pray for the ppu is not good enought, or we will face a big problem.
To me, the best way to kill a ppu, is debuff while my ppu cast a crap tl-25 shelter on him.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 19:28
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Not an exaggeration at all. Remove my Parashock, I remove my PPU, simple as that,
Ok how is that relevant to what you said before? "You remove parashock, you destroy a class", that's what I called an exaggeration. But now you're saying "you remove parashock, I remove my ppu" which is totally different.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Whiner's already totally destroyed the hybrid class "we cant beat them, whinge whinge whine whine", so KK destroyed the class. .
Not all the "whiners" wanted them destroyed. You seem the type that is oblivious to any type of overpowered aspect in PvP. Can you honestly say hybrids weren't overpowered???
Originally posted by Lexxuk
now your whinin to remove Parashock, when under your name it says "PPU Killer" which tends to suggest, you kill PPU's, so obviously, you have no problem killing them, even with this overpowering unbalanced spell
Actually what happens is, I have to "work" to kill the ppu. TIME my spell, make sure he's distracted, not healing, whatever, etc...
Then usually i killed 1-2 apus and a ppu, then I catch their attention, then that's when they start spamming me. Spamming isn't like killing a ppu. There's no skill or timing involved. You just repeatedly click the apu ensuring he can't move or turn around and wait for him to die.That's basically insta-death.
Originally posted by Lexxuk
Problem is, you want to play the game your way, and in doing so, you want to take out other peoples ways of playing the game that stop you playing it the way you want to.
Nope, the problem is I care about balance. Your main "excuse" in the beginning of the thread was "how do I do missions, kill monsters, hunt alone, etc....", then I said make it PvM only, and now you're coming with this.
Originally posted by Sleawer
It's easy and fast to recast a shelter, but not that easy to recast shelter/deflector... that's the only reason because holy antibuff>holy antishield.
I don't know about you, or other apus, maybe other apus have teammates from heaven that can read the mind of the apu, but 95% of my ppu kills come from MY damage alone. So if they shelter up quickly after holy antibuff, well there goes my damage.
The only time i kill a ppu with my taemmate hammering at them is usually when their the last one standing and trying to res their team.
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 19:30
Originally posted by Sleawer
To me, the best way to kill a ppu, is debuff while my ppu cast a crap tl-25 shelter on him.
I can't do that. No one in my clan wants to do that, except maybe on person who I hardly see online. They don't like spamming the enemy with paralyze either. Lucky for me I got "honorable" teammates, while the enemies play dirty against me. GRRR
.....and good ones are to anything other than an army, or a well trained APU+One.
I've killed many high rank pvp ppu's on my own with my apu, its easy done and i dont even have a Holy Antibuff yet, ph34r me. :p
Were all human and all make mistakes.....if the ppu doesnt happen to have a anti poison in his QB then chances are hes gunna panic when 15 stacks of poison are on him, his hands will be shaking to get that anti poison into his QB (which he will have to remove something from it first) then a simple anti shield and wam away with the HL, 1 dead ppu.......:D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I don't know about you, or other apus, maybe other apus have teammates from heaven that can read the mind of the apu, but 95% of my ppu kills come from MY damage alone. So if they shelter up quickly after holy antibuff, well there goes my damage.
Hah, so true.
Well, I guess teamspeak does miracles in that matter (I dont have it tho).
What I do is looking who the other apu's are attacking, and then I start to cast antibuff on that person.
I tried to shout in caps the name of the ppu I am antibuffing, but no one reads, so that's useless :p
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 20:02
Btw I haven't seen any ppus answer my questions.
I want to know, how would you feel if the apus' anti spells were 105 RoF and 33 mana?
How would you feel about that?
How would you feel about being debuffed every second and knowing you can't do anything about it?
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 20:20
Erm no Thorm.
Holy Para is extremely good on idiots and amatures.
Professionals aren't always that phased, unless it's a 2v1 fight.
I've even won those vs a APU/PPU combo.
Unless you're a PPU, I'd actually say HL was the most dangerous thing in the game, it punches straight through my PEs Shelter, Rips my tank apart, ...doesn't even need to hit my spy :PPP (cough heh).
But people see the APU HL as balanced because APUs have "bad defence." ....bad defence? when it's combined with a PPU, it shure as hell ain't bad.
Holy Para is the same in reverse, HP is a very powerful spell, I'll admit that, and I do hate it in certain situations my PE can survive in an op fight when he's parad.
My Tank can survive in an op fight when he's parad.
That's because I have a team I can rely on, and they back me up.
In dueling, or in PP Fights or MB Fights, I hate Parashock.
PPU HP/ParaBeam should be upped to 100ish mana, I wouldn't honestly say 150, 100 would prevent spam from most PPUs (only people who would be able to cast it more than 5 times on any targets given are those with gimped ppu damage)... which would make you think about what you're doing, or you would have a "weak" Para (comparitively).
I think maybe there would be cause there to look at parashocks sensativity to your amount of PPW vs PPU.
When I fight a PPU it isn't actually parashock that pisses me off the most.
....That's for another thread, though.
Again, as I said on MSN.
STOP COMPARING ANTIBUFF WITH PARASHOCK.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Btw I haven't seen any ppus answer my questions.
I want to know, how would you feel if the apus' anti spells were 105 RoF and 33 mana?
How would you feel about that?
How would you feel about being debuffed every second and knowing you can't do anything about it?
Sarcasm...
Honestly i'd change my forum account name to Sh4daow Dancer... then make 100000 posts xomplaining about it till it gets sorted :D
j/k
I'd be fcukin annoyed, but then i hardly disagree, pvp was fun when classes could move, personally now i play nothing other than my pure ppu... why ? becuase it's the only class i can play that dosent get renedered useless in pvp by 1 spell, i have been debuffed, but rebuffed it's a minor.
I used to enjoy my tank... infact i loved my tank, i used to always be on him at the forefront of the fight... but now he's nothing more than a target cuz 9/10 he gets glued and when that i happens i just log out and think fcuk, but i havent deleted him in the hop pvp will be closer to how it "used" to be.
I have para'd endless ppl and watch my apu smash em to pieces because they ain't goin anywhere, i've seen ppus get debuffed killed, seen em rebuffed faster than than the apu can blink.
What i feel tho is if anti buff gets a mana cost reduction (which it should) i'd give up parashock, letme runcast shelter/deflect/heal and lower the cost of some of my sanctums... you apus go through booster 2's like wildfire i get 1 cast of a sanctum and have to eat a booster 3 then buff and eat another..... you cast anti munch get your casts of munch....
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 20:29
Originally posted by LTA
What i feel tho is if anti buff gets a mana cost reduction (which it should) i'd give up parashock, letme runcast shelter/deflect/heal and lower the cost of some of my sanctums... you apus go through booster 2's like wildfire i get 1 cast of a sanctum and have to eat a booster 3 then buff and eat another..... you cast anti munch get your casts of munch....
How many times have I said something like THIS Instead?
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 20:30
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Erm no Thorm.
Holy Para is extremely good on idiots and amatures.
Professionals aren't always that phased,
Very mature QD, VERY mature. Attack me here in "disguise" because of our argument on MSN? Do you see me bringing it up here saying "egotistical players in big clans who don't really face challenging foes often mistake that for skill when they defeated weaker foes" or some garbage like that and ATTEMPTING to make it look like a post that has nothing to do with it? You basically said the same thing on msn just in a different way, did you honestly think I wouldn't notice? Funny thing is you don't have the guts to admit you wrote this because of our conversation, you say you wrote it before our convo when during our arguement I wrote the above reply. So unless something happened in the time space continuum and my post got posted before yours, I don't see how that's possible.
I honestly thought you were more mature than that. Oops.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
How many times have I said something like THIS Instead?
hehe dunno but i be gettin on par with you... every para thread i see this is my suggestion :p
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 20:32
Originally posted by LTA
Sarcasm...
Honestly i'd change my forum account name to Sh4daow Dancer... then make 100000 posts xomplaining about it till it gets sorted :D
The joke is getting old.....
Originally posted by LTA
What i feel tho is if anti buff gets a mana cost reduction (which it should) i'd give up parashock, letme runcast shelter/deflect/heal and lower the cost of some of my sanctums... you apus go through booster 2's like wildfire i get 1 cast of a sanctum and have to eat a booster 3 then buff and eat another..... you cast anti munch get your casts of munch....
As I said before, I think run/casting shelter def heal is a good trade off.
s
QuantumDelta
17-09-03, 20:34
Believe what you like Arc.
Making the parashocks incremental might work well, the other weapons can stun with enough damage. The total amount of shock should be limited by the tl and damage of the parashock.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
STOP COMPARING ANTIBUFF WITH PARASHOCK.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Holy Para is one of the only REAL WAYS to counter Holy Anti-buff with a decent chance of re-sheltering before being rained on, in one on one situations, at least.
If they are counters to one another, then they should be balanced against each other.
KidWithStick
17-09-03, 22:04
they should take out holy para and make it so PPU's can runcast shelts/deflectors/heals and maybe walkcast sanctums...
and for both classes they need to do somthing that increases your mana, that is unless there going to lower the mana cost on ALL spells... it would probably just be easier to have PSI USE give a bit of mana like it used to.
Not comparing Holy Antibuff with Holy Paralysis?
I believe both are an excelent analogy.
Look it from this point of view QD:
Imagine that in the same time I can cast a Holy Lighting over you (or a holy paralysis.. go figure), I could take away your shelter and deflector... and even your heal.
How much QD would last against my next shots of capped HL's?
Now imagine that I can do this with only 33 mana cost...
This is exactly what happens with holy paralysis; it is as taking away your shields, your defence... your movement and aiming capability.
And which are the counter measures?
- 2k per spam
- fuzzy effect after the second drug (if you manage to survive that long, as apu I tell you that I cannot)
- and these two even for need some seconds to remove the shock effect... megaeasy spammable over you again.
*sigh*
Bah! 11 pages later and still no response from KK :( This is important guys, please at least let us know how you feel about this issue and whether there are changes planned for the future?
My problem is:
PPU parashocks me, I cant fight cos they are too tough, I cant run because they slow me down, I cant stealth because they have anti-stealth.
They DMG boost me repeatedly. They then spam me with parashock to kill me.
Bottom line? Parashock should not cause damage... AT ALL.
The only offensive PPU wep should be soulclusters.
Then whats the point instead of being killed by para youd just get a SC on you ??. might as well leave the para's dmg if thats the prob.
But ys remove it pls do. just give us some of the benefits that been mentioned earlier.
Originally posted by Darkborg
Then whats the point instead of being killed by para youd just get a SC on you ??. might as well leave the para's dmg if thats the prob.
But ys remove it pls do. just give us some of the benefits that been mentioned earlier.
SC = Caaaaast. PCkow..... Pckow and is a passive spell
Para = repeat cast chowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchowchow
Oh and that reminds me of some bug fixes for stealth.....
Shadow Dancer
17-09-03, 23:15
Originally posted by joeyd
Making the parashocks incremental might work well, the other weapons can stun with enough damage. The total amount of shock should be limited by the tl and damage of the parashock.
What do you mean? You mean like stacking it to get the full effect?
Wouldn't it be cool if spies got a special device to automatically go into stealth if their health reaches 30%? :p
That's also something to take into account...
When you are holy paralyzed, your enemy is also 2x harder to kill because usually has holy shelter/deflector on him, has better resists and combat habilities due buffs, and also hits you harder thanks to damage boost. And all what you hurt him, is recovered by to holy heal.
Holy Paralysis alone is bad, but with all those things is even worse.
Like I have said, the problem is having a class with so many roles... that's what unbalances the game.
I am not saying to remove now shelters or heals from ppu's, but maybe if holy paralysis and damage boosts werent in the same class who can shield/buff (or even in the game), we wouldnt see it so much unbalanced.
Also the worst was when everyone's cousin had a freezer; but that's not the subject.
ghandisfury
18-09-03, 01:03
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I can't do that. No one in my clan wants to do that, except maybe on person who I hardly see online. They don't like spamming the enemy with paralyze either. Lucky for me I got "honorable" teammates, while the enemies play dirty against me. GRRR
Shadow, that's a bit below the belt, and quite frankly a lie. I fight with more honor than anyone in NC I believe, and far more honor than the clan you are involved with. GR camping, Ninja hacking, and shooting people in the back while they are hunting are the acceptable tactics of your clan........Non of this is done by myself and 90% of my clan. Honorable enough for you?
I've given you the reason I spam with HP, and I hope that I will play some part in the removal of such a unbalance PvP ruining tool.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Btw I haven't seen any ppus answer my questions.
I want to know, how would you feel if the apus' anti spells were 105 RoF and 33 mana?
How would you feel about that?
How would you feel about being debuffed every second and knowing you can't do anything about it?
I would hate it, and it would kill 99.9% of the PPUs out there. I have never disagreed with the fact that HP is the most horrible weapon in the game....I have never disagreed with the fact that it's unballanced......I have always said that ALL monks are unballanced......
On a side note, the one thing I can see KK doing that will hurt the player base even more is to remove HP and give PPUs nothing in return.
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 01:09
Hense the 100 mana cost.
I'm not going to explain what happened to my PPU today at jeriko, it was so beyond a joke.
Either a certain APU is hacking, or APUs really have some balance issues.
(Since half my clan think the guy is hacking..especially for the ability to one hit kill PNs and PB20s with HL ...hey, heh).
anyway.
Holy-antibuff may not seem like much when you consider a controlled environment, but out in a op fight heh, well Im not sure how this guy did what he did, but there's no way to ask Arc what he did because arc's having a hissy fit.
ghandisfury
18-09-03, 01:09
Originally posted by Darkborg
Then whats the point instead of being killed by para youd just get a SC on you ??. might as well leave the para's dmg if thats the prob.
But ys remove it pls do. just give us some of the benefits that been mentioned earlier.
It's not the damage, it's the effect....let me say is slower....
IT'S-NOT-THE-DAMAGE-IT'S-THE-EFFECT *echos*
PPUs do not solo many people. Do not think 1vs1 when you think about PPUs, think about the APU, tank, PE, spy, another tank, three more APUs and partrige in a pair tree that are shooting you while you helplessly stand there until dead.
KidWithStick
18-09-03, 01:13
ive one hit killed a PB20 before QD....dont know about a PN though
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 01:18
Originally posted by KidWithStick
ive one hit killed a PB20 before QD....dont know about a PN though You got AIM or MSN I gotta ask somethin about APUs *maximum capabilities* if you rigged specifically for something if it would be possible..
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Btw I haven't seen any ppus answer my questions.
I want to know, how would you feel if the apus' anti spells were 105 RoF and 33 mana?
How would you feel about that?
How would you feel about being debuffed every second and knowing you can't do anything about it?
thats two totally different leagues man, holy paralysis only does minimal dmg and stuns....not to mention the para effect lasts 35 seconds....which is roughly the same amount of time more or less that it would take an APU to refresh his mana pool and cast antibuff on you again....so in essence if they did have that ability to cast it at 105/min and at 33 mana that would be 100x more powerful than HP would ever be as when you antibuff the PPU has to recast 3 different spells...so to compare the two in that scenario is just plain obsurd
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 01:52
double post
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 01:52
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Shadow, that's a bit below the belt, and quite frankly a lie. I fight with more honor than anyone in NC I believe, and far more honor than the clan you are involved with. GR camping, Ninja hacking, and shooting people in the back while they are hunting are the acceptable tactics of your clan........Non of this is done by myself and 90% of my clan. Honorable enough for you?
EDIT:Nevermind, I'm not gonna derail the thread because of this lilttle comment. I'll just say that I couldn't disagree more with your views on yourself and my clan.
Please ghandi if you wanna exchange specific events and feelings about each other's clan then PM me. You're not my only enemy in-game.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I've given you the reason I spam with HP, and I hope that I will play some part in the removal of such a unbalance PvP ruining tool.
No comment.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
I would hate it, and it would kill 99.9% of the PPUs out there. I have never disagreed with the fact that HP is the most horrible weapon in the game....I have never disagreed with the fact that it's unballanced......I have always said that ALL monks are unballanced......
WEll yea you said that, but I was referring to the other ppus who think para spamming is OK. I want them to comment on it specifically.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Holy-antibuff may not seem like much when you consider a controlled environment, but out in a op fight heh, well Im not sure how this guy did what he did, but there's no way to ask Arc what he did because arc's having a hissy fit.
There's no way to ask Arc what he did? What who did? Sorry I don't understand rephrase please. And no i'm not having a hissy fit, i'm not the one bringing msn convos into the mix. Now please enough with those "provoking" comments QD I don't want my thread closed.
My poor thread.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
IT'S-NOT-THE-DAMAGE-IT'S-THE-EFFECT *echos*
rofl
Yea i totally agree.
Originally posted by extract
thats two totally different leagues man, holy paralysis only does minimal dmg and stuns....not to mention the para effect lasts 35 seconds....which is roughly the same amount of time more or less that it would take an APU to refresh his mana pool and cast antibuff on you again....so in essence if they did have that ability to cast it at 105/min and at 33 mana that would be 100x more powerful than HP would ever be as when you antibuff the PPU has to recast 3 different spells...so to compare the two in that scenario is just plain obsurd
Nice dodge. But I used holy antibuff because it made you just as helpless as HP. But since it's 3 different spells, then lemme ask about holy anti shelter. How would you feel if that was spammable?
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Erm no Thorm.
Holy Para is extremely good on idiots and amatures.
Professionals aren't always that phased, unless it's a 2v1 fight.
I've even won those vs a APU/PPU combo.
Unless you're a PPU, I'd actually say HL was the most dangerous thing in the game, it punches straight through my PEs Shelter, Rips my tank apart, ...doesn't even need to hit my spy :PPP (cough heh).
But people see the APU HL as balanced because APUs have "bad defence." ....bad defence? when it's combined with a PPU, it shure as hell ain't bad.
Holy Para is the same in reverse, HP is a very powerful spell, I'll admit that, and I do hate it in certain situations my PE can survive in an op fight when he's parad.
My Tank can survive in an op fight when he's parad.
That's because I have a team I can rely on, and they back me up. I might be an idiot / amateur, but I still think HP is more dangerous than HL. Here I'm talking "large" fights like some op wars, not duos.
I also lived through some paras myself, but well, I gotta say I live through HL more often than through HP, hella more easy. Well, some times I just get chain nuked dead real fast, but more often than not movement saves me as it makes ennemies miss me more, or allows me to hide behind some structure or ennemy (gotta love when they get hit by their mates instead of me, heh). When I get para'd in a large fight, I drop real fast, can't escape as I got no stealth. :(
Originally posted by Sleawer
When you are holy paralyzed, your enemy is also 2x harder to kill because usually has holy shelter/deflector on him, has better resists and combat habilities due buffs, and also hits you harder thanks to damage boost. And all what you hurt him, is recovered by to holy heal.
Holy Paralysis alone is bad, but with all those things is even worse.
Like I have said, the problem is having a class with so many roles... that's what unbalances the game. I don't think HP is bad because it's on PPUs, I think it'd be as bad, or almost as bad, if it was on any other class with less defense...
I'd really love to know what KK thinks about it.
I think it's too late now to start to change spells over different classes... obviously if anyone benefits the least from damage boost and parashocks, that's the ppu, but as the ppu class is who holds aswell such awesome team/defence improve roles, having these two spells (dmg boost/parashocks) unbalances the class heavily respect the others... hence making it essential in certain/most situations.
To be honest, I dont have a real clue of what to do with this. There have been suggested a lot of ideas regarding parashocks, yet we dont like completely one or other... even removing it from PvP or the game.
I'd really like to know what the dev team thinks aswell...
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 02:19
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
There's no way to ask Arc what he did? What who did? Sorry I don't understand rephrase please. And no i'm not having a hissy fit, i'm not the one bringing msn convos into the mix. Now please enough with those "provoking" comments QD I don't want my thread closed.
My poor thread.
An APU pulled some suspect shite on uranus earlier.
I would consult you but yea.
Are you trying to say that an apu exploited?
What it has in common with this thread?
I dont get it.
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 02:26
I wanna know if, on ANY Configuration, something is possible, because if it is, every SSC APU will soon be doing it, period.
It would most likely be a pretty extreme config, but it is doable, well..........................
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 02:28
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
An APU pulled some suspect shite on uranus earlier.
I would consult you but yea.
Just PM me with it.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What do you mean? You mean like stacking it to get the full effect?
Yeah, like holy damage boost.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Wouldn't it be cool if spies got a special device to automatically go into stealth if their health reaches 30%? :p
hehe, you would have to make sure that last shot killed em.
KidWithStick
18-09-03, 02:36
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
You got AIM or MSN I gotta ask somethin about APUs *maximum capabilities* if you rigged specifically for something if it would be possible..
its just the random damage QD...if you can cap HL you can one hit kill them
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 02:45
If it really was random damage that guy is a lucky mofo, especially with what he did after he made the 3 PNs go pop.
after talking to the horrible APU (who should be nerfed, because he's APU) I still stick with what I said earlier. Holy Para, or any Para should not be removed. They should be...
a) Reduced in effect, still stun an opponent, but not for 30 seconds, say 10 seconds, or 15 seconds, 30 seconds is half a minute, and thats too long.
b) Mana cost is OK, because it is the only way for a PPU to do Epic's, try to do the BioTech Epic as a PPU with only a S/C, and ur totally screwed, cause Clusters dont count for a kill, and you have to kill 5 mutie corp's, and they suck.
c) Fix Drugs, the horrible APU (who should be nerfed) and I both agree drugs should be fixed. I said insta kick, last 10 seconds with immunity to Para, he said, no, make it kick in after a second or two, because of the lasting effect, which is cool, a fair compromise.
d) Make Parashock a part of PvP, dont remove it, make Parashock a PPU skill, spamming Para = Useless, using Para at the right moment = good and skillful. Even the APU (who should be spammed with holy parashock for 2 months solid, then nerfed) would still find himself getting shocked now and then, but with solution (c) he wont feel as helpless as the 0/2 who gets hit with a Cursed Soul.
e) make HIGH LEVEL PPU CONTENT (my suggestion) cause killing things for the epic's is STUPID BEYOND BELIEF!! I'm not even going to bother with the non allied epic's, killing a Y-Rep just ent gunna happen.
There was probably more, but this girl DM'd me, so I err, kinda lost track of stuff. Its a balance issue, not a removal issue. The reason I said it would kill a class, is simple, some hybrids went PPU for (a) god mode and (b) holy parashock, remove that, you remove them, leaving only high level PPU's. New players, use parashocks to level up (who wants a 0/2 in their team buffing them?) so its a leveling tool, high level's use them in combat, and PvM (warbots hate parashock) To be honest, my new gun, 5 slot perfect beggar nail gun (175% dmg, 98 shots per minute) out damages it, and gives nice poison stacks :p
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 03:02
Originally posted by KidWithStick
its just the random damage QD...if you can cap HL you can one hit kill them
true, but doing such high random damage multiple times in a row is fishy, although I can see with luck why someone would think apus should be nerfed.
One time I hit my friend twice for 280 damage. He was like "WTF". But anyways QD i responded to your PM.
EDIT: To the people who fear paralyze removal will overpower APUs in op wars. What if damage was no longer random, but dictated by a recticle? If the recticle is fully open it does the least damage, if it's fully closed it does max damage. That way damage is dictated by the player's skill. What do you think about that? Btw I don't have some hidden agenda or anythng because my aim SUX!
I hate how parashocks kill n00bs.
;)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Nice dodge. But I used holy antibuff because it made you just as helpless as HP. But since it's 3 different spells, then lemme ask about holy anti shelter. How would you feel if that was spammable?
well maybe I guess it would help if I actually knew what you meant by "spammable"....
is it because I can shoot it more than once? cause shooting players only stacks you once with the para effect(which last for 35 seconds on HP) which in that 35 seconds the only effect it would have if I kept shooting you would be dmg...and little damage at that....I think while dmg boosted and without any buffs the most ive actually seen my holy para do on any class was 20....couple that with the fact that I have not yet capped RoF on it, and the fact that I need my mana more for shields and other things I dont see it viable as a weapon to kill(thats not to say its not possible, I just havent seen it as being worth that)
but if my idea of spamming para is the ability to paralize you after the shock effect wears off, how is that ANY different than antibuffs now?
but maybe Ive got this whole "spammable" concept all wrong so please explain to me what it means before I go any further
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 03:17
APUs don't deserve a reticle imo.
I'll still agree with APU aiming system as they currently are.
Thanks for the reply, you can see the "wtf" heh,
Holy Para vs Runcast Shelters/Deflectors/Holy Heal.
No Sanctum Runcast No Booster 3 runcast.
I would trade it in a second.
I would like to see Booster 3's have their range increased actually it's annoying as hell to have someone yell "Need PSI/Heat" and run off while it's casting outta range...heh, of course you can't run after them with it -_- but runcast boosters would be ....bit too much ;)
Also, on the bright side for PPUs the removal/total nerfage of para spells = two free belt slots =P
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Also, on the bright side for PPUs the removal/total nerfage of para spells = two free belt slots =P
and 1 less fudging job to do :D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What if damage was no longer random, but dictated by a recticle? If the recticle is fully open it does the least damage, if it's fully closed it does max damage. That way damage is dictated by the player's skill. What do you think about that? Btw I don't have some hidden agenda or anythng because my aim SUX!
I dont like that idea, for one what would determine how fast or slow the reticle would center? psi use? then monks would definitely cry for some psi use eyes, that would just cause more problems, and really why should monks need a recticle? theyre shooting a damn bolt of lightning from the sky? also how would you introduce that to PPUs? say if a recticle wasnt all the way closed the person i tried to heal would get a half assed heal? i can see that working out great in PvM situations...let alone PvP....horrible horrible idea imho..........
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Also, on the bright side for PPUs the removal/total nerfage of para spells = two free belt slots =P
how does one spell = 2 slots?
Originally posted by extract
how does one spell = 2 slots?
Holy para
Holy AntiParalyse :p
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 03:27
Originally posted by extract
but maybe Ive got this whole "spammable" concept all wrong so please explain to me what it means before I go any further
Basically to cast it asap over and over one after the other. The problem is drugs won't work when that happens. I pop a drug, but immediately get shocked again. I've been in situations where i've popped up to 7 drugs but i'm parashocked the whole time. That's a LONG TIME! They introduced drugs because parashock was too strong and too long, but spamming it make drugs useless.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
APUs don't deserve a reticle imo.
I'll still agree with APU aiming system as they currently are.
What do you mean they don't deserve it? You mean that in a good way or bad way?
Originally posted by extract
I dont like that idea, for one what would determine how fast or slow the reticle would center? psi use? then monks would definitely cry for some psi use eyes, that would just cause more problems,
I wouldn't cry for psi use eyes, we can already get plenty of psi use. The only thing I woudl cry for is much better int gain. Not .000005% increase or whatever.
Originally posted by extract
and really why should monks need a recticle? theyre shooting a damn bolt of lightning from the sky?
bleh
Originally posted by extract
also how would you introduce that to PPUs?
You wouldn't. I was talking about apus only.
Originally posted by extract
how does one spell = 2 slots?
Parashock and anti shock.
I would cry for a psi eye, it is in my nature :p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Basically to cast it asap over and over one after the other. The problem is drugs won't work when that happens. I pop a drug, but immediately get shocked again. I've been in situations where i've popped up to 7 drugs but i'm parashocked the whole time. That's a LONG TIME! They introduced drugs because parashock was too strong and too long, but spamming it make drugs useless.
well if youre talking about the fact that I can reshock you over and over again after you pop drugs, you really cant even compare antibuff to para anymore then, because then in fact antibuff IS spammable, a drug takes roughly 5-10 seconds to kick in...as does replenishing an APUs mana pool....so in a way you kind of contradict youreself there man, cause then youre really not bitching about paras RoF (like you have been) cause obviously theres no need for that much RoF as like i said drugs takes a few seconds to kick in....
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Parashock and anti shock.
people actually use those anti paralize spells as PPU, I usually just wait til it wears off no point in using it really....plus its not para im worried about on my PPU its a APU with antibuff, and a tank with a speedgun and a PPU, and in situations where I am PPUing for someone Im usually freezing my own people, cause Ill admit I suck at PvP and I cant lock even my own teamates at times, and basically if Im youre PPU chances are if you move alot youre dead, but you could stand there and take a beating like no other but as long as im able to lock you youre prolly never gonna die i got the uber setup and spells =P and the ghettoest computere ever made.....para is more of an annoyance than a threat, but Im always running holy catharsis sanctum in situations when Im attacked alone anyways so it just wipes off as soon as its stacked...so i rarely even notice it....
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 03:53
Originally posted by extract
well if youre talking about the fact that I can reshock you over and over again after you pop drugs, you really cant even compare antibuff to para anymore then, because then in fact antibuff IS spammable, a drug takes roughly 5-10 seconds to kick in...as does replenishing an APUs mana pool....so in a way you kind of contradict youreself there man, cause then youre really not bitching about paras RoF (like you have been) cause obviously theres no need for that much RoF as like i said drugs takes a few seconds to kick in....
5-10 seconds? Que? Your'e comparing the time it takes to cast a spell to the time a spell LASTS. Those are 2 different things. I'm not sure if you realized that. And concenrated anti-shock(the one I use) takes about 2-2.5 seconds. I'm not bitching about RoF, i'm bitching about mana cost and the spell itself. Antibuff isn't spammable, i just said cast it over and over asap. Antibuff is 260 mana and 21 rof, how on earth can you cast that over and over asap? HP is 105 rof and 33 mana. O_o DO i really have to elaborate? If I cast anti shelter the ppu can recast in 1 second. But i still have to wait a while to get my pool up. IF anti-spells were truly spammable PPUs would be complaining up the wazoo.
Not to mention the fact that even if drugs took 5-10 seconds(which they don't) the ppu can still cast other spells and parashock other people while waiting for my drugs to kick. If I antibuff a ppu and he quckly recasts defenses I have to sit there and do nothing while my mana pool takes 5 years to recharge.
Originally posted by extract
people actually use those anti paralize spells as PPU, I usually just wait til it wears off no point in using it really....plus its not para im worried about on my PPU its a APU with antibuff, and a tank with a speedgun and a PPU, and in situations where I am PPUing for someone Im usually freezing my own people, cause Ill admit I suck at PvP and I cant lock even my own teamates at times, and basically if Im youre PPU chances are if you move alot youre dead, but you could stand there and take a beating like no other but as long as im able to lock you youre prolly never gonna die i got the uber setup and spells =P and the ghettoest computere ever made.....para is more of an annoyance than a threat, but Im always running holy catharsis sanctum in situations when Im attacked alone anyways so it just wipes off as soon as its stacked...so i rarely even notice it....
I don't have catharsis sanctum, anti-shock spell, or the defenses of a PPU.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
5-10 seconds? Que? Your'e comparing the time it takes to cast a spell to the time a spell LASTS. Those are 2 different things. I'm not sure if you realized that. And concenrated anti-shock(the one I use) takes about 2-2.5 seconds. I'm not bitching about RoF, i'm bitching about mana cost and the spell itself. Antibuff isn't spammable, i just said cast it over and over asap. Antibuff is 260 mana and 21 rof, how on earth can you cast that over and over asap? HP is 105 rof and 33 mana. O_o DO i really have to elaborate? If I cast anti shelter the ppu can recast in 1 second. But i still have to wait a while to get my pool up. IF anti-spells were truly spammable PPUs would be complaining up the wazoo.
Not to mention the fact that even if drugs took 5-10 seconds(which they don't) the ppu can still cast other spells and parashock other people while waiting for my drugs to kick. If I antibuff a ppu and he quckly recasts defenses I have to sit there and do nothing while my mana pool takes 5 years to recharge.
I don't have catharsis sanctum, anti-shock spell, or the defenses of a PPU.
dude Im not here to argue trust me im almost with you on some of youre points but youre making some arguements that are in a way totally off basis...ok yes youre right, antibuff takes 3 times longer to cast and at a much higher mana cost...but look at the outcome I lost shelter/def/and heal....and im sorry it doesnt take more than 3 seconds for a psi booster 3 to refill 270 mana, which does make it spammable, the antibuff just cast slower, its two totally different situations man, and as far as being helpless when youre parad, if youre para shocked you dont have to stop shooting just to take youre antishock pill, Ive got to stop healing/buffing my teamates, and rebuff myself when Im antibuffed which leaves them helpless....its an everlasting vicious cycle, and we could sit and argue about this point over and over again all night and not get anywhere....
and mana cost and RoF on para is not the issue either....as you said it takes what? 2-2.5 seconds for pill to kick in....well even if you were to kick para down to 21/min i could still spam you with it....easy.....
yeah i use em.... dam sight faster than casting Cath Sanctum and a lot cheaper on the mana reqs... so if i am just hunting about i normally use it for the fact it takes about 2 secs a cast, costs like 230 odd mana less and does the job the same.....
Erm.. extract, let's explain this paragraph of you okay?
Originally posted by extract
well if youre talking about the fact that I can reshock you over and over again after you pop drugs, you really cant even compare antibuff to para anymore then, because then in fact antibuff IS spammable, a drug takes roughly 5-10 seconds to kick in...as does replenishing an APUs mana pool....so in a way you kind of contradict youreself there man, cause then youre really not bitching about paras RoF (like you have been) cause obviously theres no need for that much RoF as like i said drugs takes a few seconds to kick in....
Let's talk about the sacrifices of spamming holy antibuff:
- It eats all your mana pool, so you automatically need to eat a booster.
- You have to stand in stationary position during 3 seconds in the best of the cases, capped rof... which is kinda hard to achieve. Guess who is the target during those 3 seconds.
- Once you cast it, the ppu with good timming can nullify the effect of anti shelter almost instantly, and in the next 2 seconds (counting the change of spell) can recast the deflector.
- Thanks to the insane mana req to cast the spell, the low mana pool of apu's, and the 2xRoF of shelter over antibuff, the apu who is debuffing cannot take advantage of it.
- Once you have casted it, if you want to spam it, you need to wait 5 seconds for a refill of your mana pool (3 seconds if you ate a booster right after the cast), plus another 3 seconds to cast it again.... and during this time.. go to point 2.. you need to stay in stationary position.
So no, the faster you could cast it is one each 6 seconds, and sacrificing your life standing still with the worst defence in the game.
I hardly see this spell spammed.
Let's talk about spamming holy paralysis:
- It needs 33 mana pool, less than any of the apu rares.
- You can runcast it at higher ranks, and the rof caps at 105/min, same as my Holy Lighting.
- Once it is casted, the best drug takes around 3 seconds to remove the effect, and during this time the ppu can afford to cast damage boost (another drug), and keep spamming holy paralysis.
- Unlike recasting shelters/deflectors, the measure to remove the shock effect causes drug effect, which combined with another paraspam, you are a moving target at the speed of a crawl, who cannot see a crap thanks to a fuzzy screen, and moves randomly due the drug effect... which also is damage boosted and takes 1.8 times more damage than usual.
So... if antibuff, with what I have said before, is spammable... you tell me what is Holy Paralysis.
Originally posted by LTA
yeah i use em.... dam sight faster than casting Cath Sanctum and a lot cheaper on the mana reqs... so if i am just hunting about i normally use it for the fact it takes about 2 secs a cast, costs like 230 odd mana less and does the job the same.....
not really cause they could just recast it on you over and over again...which is why i like the sanctum it just keeps wiping it away everytime im hit with it
just remove all monks
porlbem sloved
Originally posted by Kazper
just remove all monks
porlbem sloved
oh yea and then watch all them nerf the PE all to hell people when the tanks and spies start bitching that a PE is the only class who can use shelter....I dont think so......
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 04:38
Originally posted by extract
and im sorry it doesnt take more than 3 seconds for a psi booster 3 to refill 270 mana, which does make it spammable,
There would be no point in me just using HB, unlike the ppu who can just spam para kuz it's so cheap, I have to hit the ppu as well after I HB nto to mention HB is bugged anyway(it takes 1-2 seconds to actually lose the mana) which is why I don't even use it.
Originally posted by extract
and as far as being helpless when youre parad, if youre para shocked you dont have to stop shooting just to take youre antishock pill,
Mouse sensitivity. I can't shoot semi-fast moving targets when I turn around as if i'm drunk.
Originally posted by extract
dude Im not here to argue trust me im almost with you on some of youre points but youre making some arguements that are in a way totally off basis...
I don't think so, I just don't think you're exactly catchign what i'm trying to say.
Originally posted by extract
and mana cost and RoF on para is not the issue either....as you said it takes what? 2-2.5 seconds for pill to kick in....well even if you were to kick para down to 21/min i could still spam you with it....easy.....
Yea you could still spam me, that's why BOTH are the issue. Not to mention the effects are totally "aggresisve" which is why it's so lame that a PPU has it.
Slewer has explained it a bit better than me I think.
I dont know ive kinda forgot what i was argueing about anyways...
one thing i do know is I love my HP in PvM situations...make it useless against PvP and it would do just fine...its all i really use it for anyways.....
I could live with uber high mana cost ie 300 and a rof of 50....
but then remove ALL anti para spells drugs...
or just remove it :\
Originally posted by extract
first off theyre two totally different classes of spells one freezes you the other takes away heal/shelter & deflector which in case you didnt notice is 3 different spells a PPU has to cast back on himself in which case most apus would be able to cast it right when all 3 were cast back on ppu again...so in essence yes it IS spammable....
w0000t is holy antibuff spammable? Have you played a APU? I can barley "spam" one holy antibuff and that drains my pool down to NADA!!!! So dont say its spammable... It has a real RoF of 2/min "because u need to w8 for the pool to get back up!" And shelter/heal/deflector takes less then 70 mana and a PPU "playing one to" can have heavy mana pool becasue they dont die as often as a APU and die = poke DS = lol
This thread is just picking up things that need to change.
Maxed PSI's with gimped mana because of forced specilisation
Drugs not working properly
Holy Para lasting too long
Anti Buff draining too much mana (which coupled with 1 = bad)
So, if APU's had more mana, drugs were make better, holy para didnt last so long, and anti buff was reduced in mana, all would be happy :p
no quite less 90% of us still want our hybrids back even if in a lower form just a usuable hybrid.
as cyl0n pointed out last night on the back of the NC box it says.
"play as a team, clan or solo"
theres major issues with the monks every other class has 1 main skill attribute as monks their main skill attribute can be used to create what should be 2 completely sepperate game classes
a ppu and a apu should be completely different classes in the same way a pe and a tank are different or a tank and a spy.
in a real world they should be 3 classes and hybrid should be an option this would allow them to be balanced 1000% better as kk would have independant control over them with no knock ons.
ppu`s should be renamed to medic`s or clerics.
apu`s to mage`s or soulreaver`s
hybrids should be something in the middle cant think of a nice name
hinch this is a thread about parashocks, not hybrids. I'm sending you a PM on my thoughts about possible bringing them back though.
Voodoochicken
18-09-03, 16:59
-Remove Damage boost (shame to waste the nice spell effect, but.. meh
-Remove damage blocker drugs
-Increase damage slightly and/or range on certain pistols
-Reduce the stun effect from HP to 30% (assuming neocron.emu.ru is correct in saying it's 80% atm)
(Note: I don't know if 30% is too low.. it'd have to be tested. However, the current value is too high)
-Increase damage of HP to 200 energy
-Reduce duration of HP stun effect to 10 seconds or less
-Set the lowest lvl para spell to have 20% stun effect and scale from there to the "30%" of HP
-Remove Antishock drugs
-Remove all the anti-buff/shelter spells
-Vastly decrease the slowing effect of being repeatedly shot in the legs
-Decrease stun time from freezer type weapons to <2 seconds
-Increase damage done by freezer type weapons
-Remove the Max Duration mods for freezers
Something along these lines would work (the exact damage/stun effect values would have to be tested, of course).
QuantumDelta
18-09-03, 17:15
Worried about your ENR Increase on HP .. would make PPUs pretty much great killers.
Why remove damage boost......!?!?
Other than that, hmm.
Nope not without runcast shelter/deflector/heal.
Originally posted by Voodoochicken
-Remove all the anti-buff/shelter spells
And how do you kill a PPU then? Lets not consider casting a TL3 heal or a crap shelter on him an option here.
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 17:51
Originally posted by hinch
hybrids should be something in the middle cant think of a nice name
battle priest? :p
Originally posted by Lucjan
And how do you kill a PPU then?
Exactly.
And then you wouldn't be able to stop them from ressing.
It would be horrible.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
battle priest? :p
sounds handy
with just enough ppu to stick a quick heal and mid lvl defences on a runner
would be no where near as good as a pure ppu but would be like an emergency medic and could be as usefull on a front line as say a pe.
allowing the apu`s to use their increased range and damage as more like artilliary and the ppus to act as a proper field hospital
you wouldnt have to worry about hp then cos as far as i see it i wouldnt allow hybrids anything of that lvl
blessed shelters and a hl would be perfect would make them apu heavy so they could attack effeicnetly but would stop them from being indestructiable
I got no idea if anyone else has said this cause i havent got the time to properly read everyones post (sorry). Freezers were totally nerfed , a freezer is about as useful as a rubber turnip...hell at least you can bounce that around... a thunderbolt barely stops someone. They were removed for being "the death of pvp" or at least to my memory.
A good 'enjoyable' fight , even if you lose , is usually intense and fast. Isnt that the point , enjoyment ? Though im not totally decided on this , I think shadows certainly right on the mana issue , at least raise that.
Shadow Dancer
18-09-03, 20:07
It doesn't necassarily have to be fast, but it should be intense and FUN. ;)
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
FUN.
What else actually matters at the end of the day with a game ?
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 02:02
ph4t l00t?
Voodoochicken
19-09-03, 04:27
-Perhaps HP doing 200 energy would be a little much, so perhaps 100-150 energy.
(typically you'll be doing 20-10% of this damage to a runner = 20-30 damage per shot)
Let's say that an APU is trying to kill a PPU without using anti-spells, 1v1.
[edit] oops.. Anti-heal should stay, sorry, forgot about that [/end edit]
-The PPU can no longer glue the APU to the floor by using HP, because the stun effect is much reduced.
-The PPU can no longer slow the APU to a crawl by repeatedly hitting them in the legs (some slowing, yes, but not much).
-The PPU can no longer damage boost the APU.
So, the APU will live a lot longer and can stack poison/fire on the PPu or HL them.
If the PPU is trying to resurrect someone, then they'll be standing still and be easy to hit.
[edit] oops.. Anti-heal should stay, sorry, forgot about that [/end edit]
[edit 2] to understand this post, you have to have read my previous post plus the complaints about it . .I couldn't be bothered putting loads of quotes in [end edit]
ghandisfury
19-09-03, 04:48
Originally posted by Voodoochicken
-Perhaps HP doing 200 energy would be a little much, so perhaps 100-150 energy.
Let's say that an APU is trying to kill a PPU without using anti-spells, 1v1.
-The PPU can no longer glue the APU to the floor by using HP, because the stun effect is much reduced.
-The PPU can no longer slow the APU to a crawl by repeatedly hitting them in the legs (some slowing, yes, but not much).
-The PPU can no longer damage boost the APU.
So, the APU will live a lot longer and can stack poison/fire on the PPu or HL them.
If the PPU is trying to resurrect someone, then they'll be standing still and be easy to hit.
Having said that, perhaps anti-shelter could stay and see how it turns out.
Read it three times.......still don't understand it.
Originally posted by t0tt3
w0000t is holy antibuff spammable? Have you played a APU? I can barley "spam" one holy antibuff and that drains my pool down to NADA!!!! So dont say its spammable... It has a real RoF of 2/min "because u need to w8 for the pool to get back up!" And shelter/heal/deflector takes less then 70 mana and a PPU "playing one to" can have heavy mana pool becasue they dont die as often as a APU and die = poke DS = lol
first off yes i have played an APU(try reading the whole thread) I dont recall anyone bending your arm making you gimp youre mana pool....that was youre choice
secondly altho my spells combined dont take near as much mana (they take 169 to cast all 3 again to be exact) Im still casting 3 spells to youre one, and trust me as PPU in battle situations my mana pool is not full by any means.......especially when Im casting all 3 of those on myself and at least one other eats up damn near my whole mana pool(which atm is only 330)....and if you have a gimped mana pool and a RoF of 2/min on that then you shouldnt be playing an APU or at least ask someone who actually knows how to set one up =P
and not all PPU have huge mana pools as you can tell mine is actually quite small for a PPU, thats because my PPU used to be my APU and that was my APUs mana pool i never quite got around to lomming it....was quite scared too really after losing over 57 million XP lomming from APU to PPU i kind of lost the appitite to lose anymore PSI lvls
basically antibuff is just as deadly as HP is...both can be used on any class to put them at a SERIOUS disadvantage, its just atm HP is a more viable means to do so, which of course puts it in the spotlight.....had holy antibuff been able to be used in such a manner Im sure this thread would be titled differently
either way make it PvM only!!!!!!!
Official KK response:
"LOL, U SED WE R TANK LUVERS!11"
:D
Okay I change my mind now...
I want parashock removed hehe. I felt so noobish when I couldnt aim at _______ tonight because a PPU named ______ parashocked me and I died :)
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 08:10
Originally posted by Mankind
Okay I change my mind now...
I want parashock removed hehe. I felt so noobish when I couldnt aim at _______ tonight because a PPU named ______ parashocked me and I died :)
Are you being sarcastic?
Originally posted by extract
basically antibuff is just as deadly as HP is...both can be used on any class to put them at a SERIOUS disadvantage, its just atm HP is a more viable means to do so, which of course puts it in the spotlight.....had holy antibuff been able to be used in such a manner Im sure this thread would be titled differently Well, if they're both as deadly, I'd like to see antibuffs given to the PPUs and Holy Paras to the APUs, lol, I can already hear the screams.
Imo, they're nowhere as deadly. (lol)
Still whining about parashock eh Shadow?:lol: hit me up on msn sometime.
Originally posted by d1shOn3st
Still whining about parashock eh Shadow?:lol: hit me up on msn sometime.
Don't troll.
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 15:35
Originally posted by Scikar
Don't troll.
Despite his unconstructive comment, at least he did me a favor and bumped my thread.
KRIMINAL99
19-09-03, 16:02
I agree... Parashock is definitely spammable and might as well be an instant death ray in any non group fight. Besides which not being able to move is just plain not fun... and considering the attack speed if you have at least like 1 ppu per 3 or 4 ppl in a group fight than noone can move.
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 16:03
Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
I agree... Parashock is definitely spammable and might as well be an instant death ray in any non group fight. Besides which not being able to move is just plain not fun... and considering the attack speed if you have at least like 1 ppu per 3 or 4 ppl in a group fight than noone can move.
It's not that bad when the enemy has 1 ppu. More often than not the ppu can't waste time just spamming you unless you're like the last person left.
But when they enemy has multiple ppus it just gets much worse.
Originally posted by extract
basically antibuff is just as deadly as HP is...both can be used on any class to put them at a SERIOUS disadvantage
LOL not that many times I killed a PPU with antiholybuff...
And when I cast it you blow up a shelter.. = HL takes NOTHING in dmg "YES APU can only use HL rest of the spells sucks btw could use my 120/120 cond 120% x 4 that I had in 2 months now O_o" PPU:s are overpowerd said enuff they screw the PvP game... But you cant live w/o them in PvM so what to do? Yes... quit this fag game and start a IRL life :D
Originally posted by t0tt3
PPU:s are overpowerd said enuff they screw the PvP game... But you cant live w/o them in PvM so what to do? Yes... quit this fag game and start a IRL life :D
We could earlier. Turning down mob damage isnt an issue, see the shelter/deflector cast reduction in the last patch. Actually leveling/hunting was more exciting back then, now it is plain boredom, as you just have to stand there and hit the left mouse button as the PPU takes care that you keep alive and kickin'...
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 16:22
My biggest gripe towards ppu is that I find it extremely unlikely that the ppu will be balanced not made "necassary" without nerfing the class to an extreme. I can see apus being balanced without nerfage, just not ppus.
I see the problem in the ppu as he holds the best group enhancer power (by shields/heals/buffs/parashocks/dmg boost/anti poison-shock-dmg boost, etc..); and also he has that extremely defence for himself.
Always I tried to point at it, I got flamed, as if I had a hidden agenda or somewhat.
I look at other mmrpg's, and the healer class is not the strongest in defence aswell, but it has to be protected by its team in the backwards of the battle, while the enemy group tries to make a breach in the group defences and kill the healers.
i.e. in DAoC the necromancer summons a minion, and while the creature is alive, he becomes a shade who cannot be harmed.. he attacks/defends by his summoned creature... once you kill the summoned pet, the necromancer comes back to the real plane, with very low health; so he is vulnerable to be killed.
The same could be done with ppu's.. a way to protect the ppu with the team health.
Maybe a spell (psi shield?) that deflects 30% of the damage received by the ppu to his team mates; so having a ppu would be a bonus by shields, heals, buffs, dmg boost, cath sanctums, and all the inmense ppu role... but the team must defend him. Having a ppu would be having a bonus, and a compromise.
Of course with this, the ppu should be weaker, killable without a team.
But the ppu could hunt solo or even PvP solo as a summoner.. he would become a shade unable to be harmed while the creature is summoned (he controls the creature and cast different spells throught it), but when his minion is killed, he would appear with 1/3 of the health.
I hate to copy ideas from other games tho...
QuantumDelta
19-09-03, 17:51
Damage via team...?
And as for minion(SC) I'd rather get rid of the spell than actually have to phase out and come back on low hp.
Even PPUs die insanely fast in this game if you throw a lot of fire power at them and they're not buffed (SCs can have a habit of dying/disappearing just when your buffs come off).
Like Arc said people aren't going to be happy until PPU is dead.
Kinda like the hybrid.
What does that have in common? - Massive defence, since if the "team" role of the ppu (talking defence/curative only) is "balanced" much more the class may as well not exist, but then again, that is the point of this isn't it?
If dependance on PPUs is removed the class may as well not exist.
There's a reason PPUs signature is Parashock, even when the other classes in the game had freezers PPUs were characterised by holy para/para beam, because this was the only real spell they could use to effect the enemy in a negative and easily visible way.
Now, I do agree Parashock shouldn't be in the game at all, stun turrets imo should be kinetic field only (bigger buffer than current).
Most/Any PPU would swap Parashock for runcast shelter/deflector/heal, because that's ...more or less what parashock was there to assist in originally, being able to buff while stagger casting away from an enemy that is most likely faster than you.
Originally posted by Thormael
Well, if they're both as deadly, I'd like to see antibuffs given to the PPUs and Holy Paras to the APUs, lol, I can already hear the screams.
Imo, they're nowhere as deadly. (lol)
thats a retarded idea(even tho it was obviously meant in jest) what would be the purpose to antibuff an APU unless he has a PPU with him....as far as holy para...sure why not...I dont see why anyclass shouldnt be able to use a freezer of some sort....
Originally posted by t0tt3
LOL not that many times I killed a PPU with antiholybuff...
And when I cast it you blow up a shelter.. = HL takes NOTHING in dmg "YES APU can only use HL rest of the spells sucks btw could use my 120/120 cond 120% x 4 that I had in 2 months now O_o" PPU:s are overpowerd said enuff they screw the PvP game... But you cant live w/o them in PvM so what to do? Yes... quit this fag game and start a IRL life :D
well look at youre avatar "APU n00b" that might explain it...I know tons of hardass APU's who mow down PPUs solo....especially one on saturn to watch him PvP is just insane, no PPU can cast shelter and heal fast enough before the damage is done with him, and by the way in any real situation HL is actually quite a stupid weapon to use on a monk(afterall we do possibly have the BEST energy defense)....however a capped fire apoc will totally fuck up any monk if used in conjucntion with antibuff(I know I see it first hand daily, Im his PPU)
Shadow Dancer
19-09-03, 19:48
Extract, grrrr. :p I just disagree with everything you say. The best APU won't kill a "good" ppu solo, it just won't happen. The only times i've solo killed ppus is either
1.They weren't that good(most common). There have been so many times I thought to myself "sigh, that ppu could have lived so easily if only he had done XXXXX".
2.I caught them by surprise. Even than sometimes they react quickly enough.
All a good ppu has to do is KNOW that you're antibuffing and you might as well forget killing him.
Also fire apoc? roflofloffloflo.
Also apus getting holy paralyze? C'mon now that would be overpowered beyond belief.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Also apus getting holy paralyze? C'mon now that would be overpowered beyond belief. Yeah I wasn't suggesting it, it was in reaction to the one who said holy para and holy antibuff were as powerful. Of course, they are not.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Are you being sarcastic?
Not at all. I put blanks because I can't name people. It really gave me a different view on Parashock.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Extract, grrrr. :p I just disagree with everything you say. The best APU won't kill a "good" ppu solo, it just won't happen. The only times i've solo killed ppus is either
1.They weren't that good(most common). There have been so many times I thought to myself "sigh, that ppu could have lived so easily if only he had done XXXXX".
2.I caught them by surprise. Even than sometimes they react quickly enough.
All a good ppu has to do is KNOW that you're antibuffing and you might as well forget killing him.
Also fire apoc? roflofloffloflo.
Also apus getting holy paralyze? C'mon now that would be overpowered beyond belief.
I like how you laugh about fire apoc....I loved that spell on my APU I did insane dmg with it so Im not quite sure what youre on about, and yes I have seen one APU take down a good PPU, I cant obviously name names or Id get in trouble I think but I know of at least 3 APUs on saturn(and Im sure theres way more) who do this with ease...and im not talking xx/40-50 PPUs here Im talking PPUs who are 60+...and maybe youre right maybe it is lack of skill on the PPUs part....but then if thats true...then obviously spells for PPUs are NOT overpowered....makes you think eh....
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 00:29
Originally posted by extract
I like how you laugh about fire apoc....I loved that spell on my APU I did insane dmg with it so Im not quite sure what youre on about,
Test it. Against someone with capped fire and energy resist, you'll see it does lower damage than HL AND has a lower rof AND does stack damage(which isn't a good thing), AND shelter absorbs fire better.
Originally posted by extract
but then if thats true...then obviously spells for PPUs are NOT overpowered....makes you think eh....
That doesn't mean they are not overpowered, wtf!!! Using your logic those hybrids with PPU defense and APU offence weren't overpowered because some of them died 1v1. O_o
Originally posted by extract
well look at youre avatar "APU n00b" that might explain it...I know tons of hardass APU's who mow down PPUs solo....especially one on saturn to watch him PvP is just insane, no PPU can cast shelter and heal fast enough before the damage is done with him, and by the way in any real situation HL is actually quite a stupid weapon to use on a monk(afterall we do possibly have the BEST energy defense)....however a capped fire apoc will totally fuck up any monk if used in conjucntion with antibuff(I know I see it first hand daily, Im his PPU)
LOL yea only played my APU for 5 months on Pluto but... And you dont think its kinda ironic? My avatar..... a APU with a lib try that setup u noob ^^ Would say I am a very good PvP vs other monks I dont say its impossible can kill weak ppus "like those frome SXR :p" but thats not the point a kickass PPU cant die and Pluto had alot of them... But now when this game dies slowly.... gg KK was fun while it last..
LOL LOL LOL only time we both where capped "shad and me" i kicked his ass :p But maybe becasue he was fooling with his new rare barrels :D Just ask Kramerthewierd voted for one of the best PE:s ^^ Look for fact before you start trolling.... "noob"
I like how you laugh about fire apoc....I loved that spell on my APU I did insane dmg with it so Im not quite sure what youre on about, and yes I have seen one APU take down a good PPU, I cant obviously name names or Id get in trouble I think but I know of at least 3 APUs on saturn(and Im sure theres way more) who do this with ease...and im not talking xx/40-50 PPUs here Im talking PPUs who are 60+...and maybe youre right maybe it is lack of skill on the PPUs part....but then if thats true...then obviously spells for PPUs are NOT overpowered....makes you think eh....
OMG then look at the PPU:s resist you suck badly a good PPU takes about 13 dmg on a capped Apoc... Why do you think I have a 120/120 condition 120 * 4 stats one in my belt...... it sucks thats why ^^
Shadow Dancer
20-09-03, 19:11
I've been getting some strange results from fire apoc. The other day one fire apoc hit me for 190 damage. O_o
I don't understand wtf is up with that spell now.
Originally posted by t0tt3
LOL yea only played my APU for 5 months on Pluto but... And you dont think its kinda ironic? My avatar..... a APU with a lib try that setup u noob ^^ Would say I am a very good PvP vs other monks I dont say its impossible can kill weak ppus "like those frome SXR :p" but thats not the point a kickass PPU cant die and Pluto had alot of them... But now when this game dies slowly.... gg KK was fun while it last..
the only thing Id say youre good at is photoshop...."n00b"
OMG then look at the PPU:s resist you suck badly a good PPU takes about 13 dmg on a capped Apoc... Why do you think I have a 120/120 condition 120 * 4 stats one in my belt...... it sucks thats why ^^
HA every PPU sucks when theyre debuffed and dmg boosted....."n00b", as all they are at that point in time is a APU with no offense....."n00b"
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
I've been getting some strange results from fire apoc. The other day one fire apoc hit me for 190 damage. O_o
I don't understand wtf is up with that spell now.
its damn well a good weapon...dont underestimate that shit...every weapon has its applications...its just like a CS...a CS does fuck all for damage on my PPU...but does that mean its a shitty weapon???? no....a speed gun or lib tho will always deal some dmg(however not life threatening, its still good damage)
btw BUMP
Shadow Dancer
21-09-03, 16:38
I still don't think it's a damn good weapon, and i've based it on many tests. It does lesser damage than HL(even though it's higher TL and harder to cap), it has much less rof, and it does........ugh...STACK damage.
SnotNosedBrat
24-09-03, 17:39
i don't see what the fuss is about parashock.
I am an apu btw, so generally I am hit with para a lot :o
it slows you down but not to the point of being completely useless, i could still move and aim fine. Perhaps in a 1v1 situation where there is nobody but you and the ppu, but with other people still fighting you can still do damage to people concentrating their fire elsewhere and not paying attention to you (hence not actively trying to dodge your attacks and being easier to aim). While neocron is more of a pseudo-fps it still requires a little bit of fps skill (more ducking under cover newbie counterstrike style). Aiming basically means hit the fire button when the box comes up. So stick ur mouse in one spot and if they are strafing around u fire when they hit ur cursor................
its a pain and its gotten me killed more so by tanks etc. a lot. But i still say its fine. Except in a 1v1 situation then it may just make things more difficult/stressful.
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