View Full Version : Neocron engine doesnt support events
Whiety Bulger
15-09-03, 23:16
I seems to me that the lack of good events is due the Neocron engine not the GM's. To change to most minor of thinks (chnage zone stauts, add/remove chairs) you need a patch. We can't have a patch every time an event occurs the engine needs to be chnaged.
well thats a BSP based engine for you. even a Quad tree based engine wouldn't be any different. also thats not the only things that BSP has against it v's the pros of said engine.
Roc-a-fella
15-09-03, 23:20
and to add to this, the zones are crap werent they supposed to reduce lag, but they dont dooooo anything!
The NC engine can add static objects like chairs, trees etc in real-time. Its been used in events before.
yes Nasher but the engine can't suddenly turn plaza 1 into a bombed out warzone with medi centre with chunks missing out of it.
Helen Angilley
15-09-03, 23:58
Originally posted by enablerbr
yes Nasher but the engine can't suddenly turn plaza 1 into a bombed out warzone with medi centre with chunks missing out of it.
I'd like to see any other MMORPG that would be able to do that. o_O
Yes I agree.
Dynamic Objects (such as chairs, boxes, NPCs, etc. etc.) can be added on the fly - such as shown in previous events like the Summer Party when they spiced up this beach, and such as through the scripting of the NPCs for the Monk PA.
Big changes to existing things - such as making a building a different layout, probably needs a patch to work effectively.
Eddie
Whiety Bulger
15-09-03, 23:59
Geomod prehaps :)
Helen Angilley
16-09-03, 00:01
Originally posted by Whiety Bulger
Geomod prehaps :)
GeoMod was a technical wreck.
Helen Angilley pay attention when posting. i never said any other MMORPG did that. infact that is just 1 of the things that lets down a BSP & Quadtree based engine. i know cause it looks like i'll have to build an engine in the long term but thats another thing all together.;)
Helen Angilley
16-09-03, 00:03
Originally posted by enablerbr
Helen Angilley pay attention when posting. i never said any other MMORPG did that. infact that is just 1 of the things that lets down a BSP & Quadtree based engine. i know cause it looks like i'll have to build an engine in the long term but thats another thing all together.;)
I did pay attention.
I just said I'd like to see a MMORPG capable of doing that.
Maybe you should be paying attention.
well the eyes image next to the comment looked like you were having ago.
Originally posted by Whiety Bulger
Geomod prehaps :)
Was that the method used in Red Faction?
(a FPS game where you could blow up terrain using explosive weapons, and the walls and such would have a (realistic) hole in you could walk through)
It didn't seem to cause (that much of a) overhead on my (average-y) system.. so why was it a complete failure? (as Helen implies?)
Eddie
Helen Angilley
16-09-03, 00:09
Originally posted by Eddie
Was that the method used in Red Faction?
(a FPS game where you could blow up terrain using explosive weapons, and the walls and such would have a (realistic) hole in you could walk through)
It didn't seem to cause (that much of a) overhead on my (average-y) system.. so why was it a complete failure? (as Helen implies?)
Eddie
It was a wreck because:
It was very poorly used (Not the game's fault, but the engine was hardly integral to the game).
Serious graphical compromises had to be made for the technology to work.
Clipping issues, shoody collision detection...etc.
well i wouldn't say geomod engine was bad just very under used. the idea was good. though a bit more control over the results would have improved it.
Whiety Bulger
16-09-03, 00:14
Ya I have Red Faction 2 and there where few things that you could destroy. If Geomod was implemented in a MMOFPS I would create very interesting tactical situations.
How would that work in a persistent world? You turn everything into rubble and pretty soon you just have rubble, forever. The Neocron engine is actually quite flexible in what you can do, far more than an FPS, for example. Anyone remember when the GMs built walls at all the PP exits and checked everyone for drugs? Not to mention the setup for all the other events (e.g. Point Red, the beach party etc.)
N
The Neocron world is more suited for events than any other MMO around.
Every other game would require patching.
Neo doesn't.
Nidhogg spawning a few chairs and lights etc.. isn't the same as say the story event that had a zone bombed by a terror attack. yes they could have spawned loads of city admin and copbots, barriers etc.. even a few flashing blue light things. yet you couldn't actually have the area in it have chunks missing without a patch.
Helen Angilley
16-09-03, 00:25
Originally posted by enablerbr
Nidhogg spawning a few chairs and lights etc.. isn't the same as say the story event that had a zone bombed by a terror attack. yes they could have spawned loads of city admin and copbots, barriers etc.. even a few flashing blue light things. yet you couldn't actually have the area in it have chunks missing without a patch.
Not all missiles destroy buildings and property.
@enablerbr
... So?
There's this lovely thing called suspension of disbeleif.
And do me a favor - name any other MMO that can.
.edit.
@Helen
Yeah, it was a napalm cluster bomb or something like that... good for fires, but won't do much property damage unless all the structures are flammable.
wasn't about saying whether it could be done or was done elsewhere. it was mainly pointing out this type of engine limitations. hell for a while now i've been looking into various 3d engines. seeing the pros and cons of each.
Martin J. Schwiezer
16-09-03, 02:53
Originally posted by Nidhogg
How would that work in a persistent world? You turn everything into rubble and pretty soon you just have rubble, forever. Nidhogg pointed out an extremely important aspect about not letting the players "change" too much of the environment. This is also the reason why bullets in FPS games destroy windows... but in MMOGs, they don't.
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
This is also the reason why bullets in FPS games destroy windows... but in MMOGs, they don't.
It's impossible unless you want to play a Massivly Multiplayer Online Fixing The Windows Game. :D
I just can't wait untill the day where I can knock over a marketplace stall in a virtual world and watch oranges roll all over the floor. The store owner would have to pick them all up! :p 10-20 years maybe?
EDIT Anybody considered what over types of mmo's are possible? What about a Massivly Multiplayer Online 2D platform Game... Or a Massivly Multiplayer Online "click as fast as you bloody can" Game? :p
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Nidhogg pointed out an extremely important aspect about not letting the players "change" too much of the environment. This is also the reason why bullets in FPS games destroy windows... but in MMOGs, they don't.
you know that post is boredering on spam as all u done is re-posted what nid put :o but as ur the boss ur allowed :lol:
yeah its true thow as if u let too many things be affected by the players then it would cause mayhem useing hte example of broken windows that information would have to be loaded extra onto what else is in the zone, now follow this threw say its 10 bites of info for said broken window, oh wiat in this zone there are 60 broken windows thats 600 bites extra oh and also 5 destoryed dust bins...thats .....you get where this is going :D
Martin J. Schwiezer as we seem to have caught your attention. i was wondering how much tampering with the engine code would be needed to say make players have the ability to shot threw fences. oh prohaps give higher ground round OPs so rifle snipers had a better vantage point for attacking them.
Progenitor
16-09-03, 03:27
Originally posted by Martin J. Schwiezer
Nidhogg pointed out an extremely important aspect about not letting the players "change" too much of the environment. This is also the reason why bullets in FPS games destroy windows... but in MMOGs, they don't.
You live!
Want to give us any important updates?????
Please!
-p
Psycho_Soldier
16-09-03, 03:36
Originally posted by Nidhogg
The Neocron engine is actually quite flexible in what you can do, far more than an FPS, for example. Anyone remember when the GMs built walls at all the PP exits and checked everyone for drugs? Not to mention the setup for all the other events (e.g. Point Red, the beach party etc.)
N
This is possible in a FPS. My friend created a NeoTF feature, a metamod for TFC, called ent mover. You can copy, rotate, destroy, change the colors, and transparency of any entity on the map.
Psycho_Soldier and this can be done on the fly. while the map is running in game?
Psycho_Soldier
16-09-03, 03:39
Yes it can.
well that sounds like something i'd be interested in. you think your mate might be able to code this same feature with the new HL2 engine. ok i know the code hasn't been released yet. i wouldn't mind an update when HL2 SDK is released.:)
Heavyporker
16-09-03, 04:57
enabler: "Martin J. Schwiezer as we seem to have caught your attention. i was wondering how much tampering with the engine code would be needed to say make players have the ability to shot threw fences. oh prohaps give higher ground round OPs so rifle snipers had a better vantage point for attacking them."
You ever checked out crest uplink or syncon lab or soliko lab? that's exactly what you spoke of.
yes i'm aware of a few such OPs that may give a sniper a chance. then again the majority of OPs don't. if KKs plans are for spies to be distant fighters then they need that advantage with a lot more. BTW i'm not clan fan but i do feal that even though i may not be into them. doesn't mean i don't see some of the pitfalls of the current systems.
For events, how'bout planning all the big events one patch ahead? Let's take that "bomb-the-plaza-to-smoking-wreck"-event. In one patch add the wrecked plaza 1 -zone, but don't link it anywhere (i.e. you cannot go there). And when it's time for the event, close Plaza 1 entrances and announce that everyone must go to shelter, then GM's go to plaza and teleport all to bomb shelters. Next, unlink current Plaza 1 transitions and direct all ingoing routes to the wrecked plaza. That ability to change transition linking shouldn't be too hard to make, now would it?
Originally posted by Nidhogg
How would that work in a persistent world? You turn everything into rubble and pretty soon you just have rubble, forever. [...]
N
Just make stuff breakable during events. I see a wrecked Plaza and for weeks engineers and researchers need to repair the place bit by bit. You know, res/constr wallparts and sell them to a site constructor npc.
Originally posted by enablerbr
yes i'm aware of a few such OPs that may give a sniper a chance. then again the majority of OPs don't. if KKs plans are for spies to be distant fighters then they need that advantage with a lot more. BTW i'm not clan fan but i do feal that even though i may not be into them. doesn't mean i don't see some of the pitfalls of the current systems.
The flat-ish ground at the front of Jeriko is also quite favorable to snipers. We had Syncs & co. holed up inside and I was standing behind all our tanks and stuff sniping the poor monkehs when they poked their heads up :)
The ground doesn't have to be high hills to favor sniping.
Athon Solo
well high ground to me doesn't just mean hills. just means to me anything thats higher than the objective. could be a tower, building, tree etc... that way i can look down on my target.
For those Americans who play on Saturn, please define "event"? Is that those things that happen while I'm at work?
:(
Sorry, couldn't resist. You know us Saturn guys, all whiners and pkers to the core.
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