View Full Version : neocron player-run server (sphere equivalant)
Does anyone know if anybody has started work on a 3rd party server for neocron? UO has sphere and runuo and a few other games have them like everquest, but is neocron not special enough or is it just too hard a thing to code.
Originally posted by flyjedi
Does anyone know if anybody has started work on a 3rd party server for neocron? UO has sphere and runuo and a few other games have them like everquest, but is neocron not special enough or is it just too hard a thing to code.
I don't think reakktor would like there to be 3rd party severs lol!
well theres not a lot they could do about it is there? and i hate the 60 second rule on posting
Originally posted by flyjedi
well theres not a lot they could do about it is there? and i hate the 60 second rule on posting
A: it would ruin player base.
B: your posting this on the official neocron forum. the cheek!
C: i like the 60 second post thing stops spam omg yes it does!
the server source code isnt available hense there will be no 3rd party servers
do you think they made the source code for uo's servers available? someone just haxed it up good and proper. i reckon it couldn't be that hard. you've already got the maps form the lcient side, all you need a is a scripting engine and a daemon to go between the scripts and the network traffic. once you've worked out all the neocron commands (which are probably encoded bastards) then it would be easy. btw uo is encrypted and they can still do it
I'm sure this all seems to be neat and tidy from your perspective... but you also have to keep in mind that there is a ton of back-end work going on with each 'planet' server.
From previous discussions (even if you could get a hold of/replicate the code) the NC world servers are load balanced across multiple physical servers and the handling is apparently quite complex. Keep in mind that you talk to the server about everything... angles that you shoot, whether you can pull your gun or not, everything....
It would take someone a lot of time and effort to redo everything, and even if they could the cost of buying/maintaining the servers would be tremendous. Bandwidth is expensive... and NC eats a lot of bandwidth. Plus, if someone were to run their own NC server and make money off of it, it would only be as long as the plane ride from Germany to "Mad Hax0r"'s house before MJS is at his/her front door with a cease and desist order because he/she is infringing on their copyrighted software and intellectual property...
So no, I don't think that will ever happen :)
Psyco Groupie
15-09-03, 02:47
KK would have to take legal action if that happened ... i doubt UO just got 'haxed' ... just became free/shareware .. neh uo is old
*edit
Afaik neocron servers are multi node behemoths ... so er unless u got 20 pcs laying about .. lol
QuantumDelta
15-09-03, 02:55
It says in the friggin terms of service that there's to be nothin of the sort.......
plus, what, exactly do you intend to run the server on? o_O
i can't see why a server would be that complex. for example, you say "Keep in mind that you talk to the server about everything" consider counter strike. do you not tell the server everything you do in that? i would say so, and in a lot more detail. also with UO, there has been player run servers out written in a variety of languages for ages, and uo has never become freeware/shareware. the server code is still confidential and the game is still popular (not that i play it i was using it as an example).
once you buy a program you can use it for whatever purpose you may desire. you are not alowed to do anything to kk's servers with it that it wasn't designedfor, simply because they'll kick you if you do. how are kk going to stop you if you start letting people use their neocron client to connect to your house.
anyway back to the uo example. i think the uo server is even more complicated than the neocron server. there is a lot more to the gam,e after all. think about neocron as an rpg like it is. it is still a turn based game. the combat is turn based. a home pc would cope with running a neocron emulation fine. they can't be processing that much in and out data because of the way you can play neocorn on a 56k without lag.
the only problem is working out they're netcode, once you've got that sorted your in the clear. obviously it's not going to work exactly the same as kk's, and it's going to take a lot of work, but i know there are people out thre who are willing to do this sort of thing.
again the uo example, take a look at this:
www.runuo.com
a fairly new uo server written in C#
or theres this:
www.sphereserver.com
one of the best uo servers, claimed by a lot of people, even OSI GMs, to run more efficiently than the original game.
and there are many more
i would be interested to know exactly how many servers neocron is spread across per world. i can't imagine it been more than 2 or 3. a server for the database to sit on, a server for the i/o gateway, and a server to do all the procesing inbetween. maybe 2 or 3 for that last stage, but hell, how much does 5 pc's cost you?
i think it's something worth my looking into, as i helped with an old uo server so i have a vague idea where to begin.
if anyones interested in helping PM me, i'm off to code me a netlogger :P
and mods, if you decide to close this can you copy and paste the text into a pm and send it to me cause i want to keep the topic. cheers
Heraclitus
15-09-03, 04:25
Originally posted by flyjedi
well theres not a lot they could do about it is there?
Oh you mean other than arresting you under international copyright laws and the violation of your EULA?
what exactly is it in the eula that says no? paste it here and i'll stop
I cant believe this thread isnt closed yet. This is so illegal... i think.
flyjedi... without sounding like too much of a flame, just some observations:
- You obviously don't really know anything about computers from a networking standpoint.
- You obviously don't really know anything about the law concerning software licensing and software use.
If you would like me to go into detail about how this is obvious to anyone on these forums with experience in these fields, please PM me and I will be happy to explain it in detail.
if it was illegal they would have stopped all the other player servers for other games. and all the player made addon stuff
Originally posted by Shujin
I cant believe this thread isnt closed yet. This is so illegal... i think.
*looks at the time.....*
Look, it's illegal okay? Origon are just fucking pussies who can't stand up for themselves.
[Edited for violation of forum rules - spam]
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Gungnir
Originally posted by d3ik
- You obviously don't really know anything about computers from a networking standpoint.
your talking to someone with 3 MCPs, a red hat qualification and a CCNP. i think i know my stuff thankyou.
legally, i'd be fine to stop if it's aganist the rules, i just don't know where the rules are
sorry i pressed the wrong button. :eek: :o
your lame those who try and block this. why do you want it closed?
i dont think it should b closed ;] but MJS should read and comment on it, hes on atm
Originally posted by flyjedi
your lame those who try and block this. why do you want it closed?
Because we are spontanious, and pick random threads to want to have closed. Well that do you think? Do you really want to be patronised with a reply?
yeah that'd be a good one. he's the deciding answer after all. cummon martin. speak up
Heraclitus
15-09-03, 04:35
The rules are in your EULA. They're also in interanational copyright laws. The server code is UNRELEASED and UNPUBLIC and thus under the strictest kind of copyright. In fact running a Neocron shard might not only be in violation of copyright laws but may be considered theft. The case of Origin has NO BEARING here. Think what SOE would do if someone tried to run an EQ or Planetside shard...
Your knowledge of netoworks may be strong, but your knowledge of law is weak. Don;t get yourself inot trouble.
Originally posted by flyjedi
yeah that'd be a good one. he's the deciding answer after all. cummon martin. speak up he was just on my thread. maybe he will
*60 sec wait*
:o :o :o :o :o :o o_O o_O :cool: :o :D
yeah THEY're server is copyright. but i don't want they're server, i want my server.
how many companys in the world sell post it notes?
Heraclitus
15-09-03, 04:41
Originally posted by flyjedi
yeah THEY're server is copyright. but i don't want they're server, i want my server.
how many companys in the world sell post it notes?
Uh, can you be that simple? It's not the disc that's copyrighted, it's the CODE. That's why its called a copyright and not a patent. And what are you going to do, build a Neocron server that is fully compatible with the Neocron client from the ground up with no access to the source code? Don't make me laugh. Even if you could you'd still be infringing on copyrights and your EULA by using the client in an illegal way. Take my word for it, you really don;t know what you;re talking about, no offense. And this kind of thinking of yours can be dangerous from a legal standpoint.
copy and paste the section of the EULA that states i can not connect my client to my own server then
Heraclitus
15-09-03, 04:45
UNDER THIS LICENSE, USER MAY:
* Install and use the Software for USER's individual use only; and
* Make a copy of the Software for back-up purposes.
USER SHALL NOT:
* Rent, lease, sublicense, timeshare, copy or otherwise distribute the Licensed Product for any purpose;
* Use, copy or transfer copies of the Licensed Product, except as provided in this Agreement;
* Remove or modify any proprietary notices, company names, logos or other labels or symbols on the Licensed Product; or
* Disassemble, decompile or otherwise reverse engineer the Licensed Product in order to discover the source code or related proprietary information and trade secrets, or have a third party do so; or
PROPRIETARY RIGHTS
CDV and/or its third-party suppliers own all proprietary rights, including all copyrights, patents, and trade secrets, in the Licensed Product and related to the Licensed Product. The Software source code and related proprietary information and trade secrets are not licensed to USER, and any modification, addition or deletion is strictly prohibited. USER agrees to include in all copies of the Software all copyright and proprietary notices. CDV reserves all rights not expressly granted to USER.
EDIT: These pertain to the modifications and misuse of the client that would be necessary to run on a shard, and do not deal with server code beacause server code is not released and considered strictly private FOR A REASON.
still not seeing the bit that says:
DO NOT:
not edit the client in anyway and instead build a server from the ground up without decompiling anything
quote from neocron service rules of conduct.
"17) You will not create, use or provide any server emulator or other site where NEOCRON may be played, and you will not post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other software tools related to NEOCRON without the express written permission of Reakktor Media."
does this anwser your question on this matter.
anyway back to the uo example. i think the uo server is even more complicated than the neocron server. there is a lot more to the gam,e after all. think about neocron as an rpg like it is. it is still a turn based game. the combat is turn based. a home pc would cope with running a neocron emulation fine. they can't be processing that much in and out data because of the way you can play neocorn on a 56k without lag.
The PM button's right above the person's post, btw. Since you have such 1337 skills and don't want to use the PM system, I'll do this in front of everyone...
Just from a hardware standpoint, a home pc could not keep up with the data traffic from all the users of the game at all times. The read head on a standard 7200rpm hard drive just doesn't go that fast, let alone one PC crunching all those numbers (even five or six home pc's wouldn't do it as you mentioned).
And Neocron is not turn-based... not at all. You can shoot at any time whether it's your "turn" or not. You can walk and attack anyone from any angle at any time in accordance with the environment variables. I don't recall any "I hit him, so now I have to wait for him to hurt me". Plus in turn-based combat angle of attack and all the other physics don't play a part (because whether you hit the opponent and how hard is simply a random number between given values).
The part that confirmed my beliefs that, regardless of "qualifications" you don't understand the concept was the "they can't be processing that much in and out data because of the way you can play neocorn on a 56k without lag" part of your post. Say you're running a cable connection and have your little farm of Compaq (lol) computers running your world server. Yes, a person running 56k can run with no problems because they only have to worry about their part of the data. The server has to worry about the data of every user connected. A cable connection would eventually get clogged. Imagine a pipe the size of your bandwidth... now start filling it with 56k pipes.... keep filling it until you have squished in about 400 56k pipes into it. Now try to move information through all of those pipes at a high rate of speed on your cable connection. It's not going to happen.
Any questions?
Martin J. Schwiezer
15-09-03, 04:49
Well, we would consider it "illegal" and we definitely would take actions against it.
Heraclitus
15-09-03, 04:49
Originally posted by flyjedi
still not seeing the bit that says:
DO NOT:
not edit the client in anyway and instead build a server from the ground up without decompiling anything
Oh you must have missed this line:
USER SHALL NOT:
* Disassemble, decompile or otherwise reverse engineer the Licensed Product in order to discover the source code or related proprietary information and trade secrets, or have a third party do so;
Building the server from the ground up is a mammoth task and still illegal.
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This one was tough, since your topic and post doesn't break a
rule but, if anyone answered your question they would be
breaking forum rules.
Thus:
A thread started with a question where its answer breaks a
rule is pointless thread a core.
Verdict:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze24bg6/Forum/forum_closed2.gif
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Gungnir
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