[Brainport] Negatives from PPU on APU

[Voodoochicken]

At the moment, any points you have in PPU reduce the effectiveness of your APU, and visa versa


Would it really be so bad if PPU didn't reduce APU, but APU still reduced PPU?

ie. basically, having PPU wouldn't affect the damage on your APU spells, but having APU would still screw over PPU heals/damage boost, etc.

Obviously, skill buffs still wouldn't really be affected because you only need to meet the requirements.

Would this be possible/overpowered? (and does low damage % on the damage boost spells reduce their effect? I'm assuming/hoping it does.)

Discuss.


[edit] If damage boost and parashock would be a big problem, then remove them.. :) Stupid spells! [end edit]

[Eledhbrant]

Uncertain about your idea.

But I do know that a low % on a damage boost means you have to cast it more than 3 times on a mob in order to reach maximum damage.

[Mumblyfish]

Please. At least make hybrids viable characters again. I'm sick of being fucking useless in OP wars.

And if the Crahn glove comes in APU and PPU variants, I am going to SMASH YOUR FACE!

[Omnituens]

Originally posted by Mumblyfish
And if the Crahn glove comes in APU and PPU variants, I am going to SMASH YOUR FACE!
oh no no no no no. not before i RIP YOU FUCKING HEAD CLEAN OFF AND DROP KICK IT INTO SHARK INFESTED WATERS.

then you can smash their face in.

[Oath]

the nerf was made cos hybrids were too powerfull, shelter using HL buffor doods.........granted that KK went straight to the source with the fix......(kk apparently DONT want you to go hybrid) i tried to make a hybrid (nough ppu to heal defl + basic resists 1) and it fooked my spells (aggressive) im now happy that monks are balanced and dont see the need to nerf anymore nor i see the need to Give em back more benefits, the next time i see a shelter using monk that can cast HL Ubar dmg then im going to be rather upset fyi a good ppu and apu are almost invincible team (less ya'r 1337 lol)

no............dont give em any less shit, dont give em anymore.

[Voodoochicken]

I posted this, because I really think that having 5 points in PPU shouldn't take over 10% damage off an APU spell.


Hybrids were overpowered because their shields could be "as good as" a PPU's, plus they had very effective heals, PLUS damage boost (so being an APU was pointless).


Allowing Hybrids to use the resist or construct boost, etc spells without totally ruining their APU spells sounds ok to me.

The APU points you had would still totally ruin the damage % on your heal/shield/damage boost spells.


The points spent in PPU would reduce the damage on your APU spells anyway, simply becasue you wouldn't be able to put as many into APU.


Anyways.. It's here for further discussion.

[Nasher]

Having 1 skill already reduces the effectiveness of the other, its been like that for a few patches. But It doesnt do it enough IMO.

The epic gloves will HAVE to be in 2 versions otherwise it will end up reducing your effectiveness :D

[ericdraven]

It seems APUs are already overpowered (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75460) , what do you think will happen when APUs even get the basic heal?! :p

[ericdraven]

Originally posted by Nasher
Having 1 skill already reduces the effectiveness of the other, its been like that for a few patches.

So the epic gloves will HAVE to be in 2 versions otherwise it will end up reducing your effectiveness :D
The glove won't give APU or PPU, so no need for 2 versions (IIRC the glove will give PSU and PSI energy).

[Scikar]

I understand what you're trying to say, and it kind of makes sense, however you would need to change it a little. There should still be a small penalty to apu (the gain in defence from the ppu would need to be balanced by the loss of apu, this penalty would then be adjusted according to how much defence you gain, so a 10% gain in defence needs a 10% loss of offense, this might work just from the apu points lost, but then it might not hence the penalty).

As long as it comes out balanced, it's fine by me, variety is always nice. If it comes out as something that hinch can look at, work on, and find the sweet spot where the losses are minimal and the result is yet another overpowered hybrid formula, then no way.

[Voodoochicken]

what I'm trying to say is:

Currently:

-any APU you have reduces the % on your PPU spells

-any PPU you have reduces the % on your APU spells


Proposition:

-any APU you have reduces the % on PPU spells (same as now, or even more)

-PPU you have does not affect % on your APU spells.


So.. any heal/shield spells the hybrid could get would have terrible %, meaning they won't exactly be overpowered.

[atm, I've got 100 in APU and 7 in PPU.. I get about 50% on my basic heal. :lol:]

Also, spending 100 skill points into PPU (ie. PPU of 75) would mean 20 lvls less in APU (assuming you want over 100 in APU).

This would decrease damage output on APU by quite a bit naturally (plus runcast ability?).

[edit] thank you scikar, it seems you understand what I'm getting at. :) [/end edit]

[edit 2] and yes, it might be that PPU still had a small negative on APU, or maybe the affect APU has on PPU could be increased to compensate [/end edit]

[ericdraven]

The problem at the moment is - if you want to have PPU as APU then you must not put in any APU chips, which reduces your damage output drastically OR you use APU chips, but then you have to invest even more skillpoints into PPU which - again - reduces your damage output.. o_O

[Voodoochicken]

Originally posted by ericdraven
The problem at the moment is - if you want to have PPU as APU then you must not put in any APU chips, which reduces your damage output drastically OR you use APU chips, but then you have to invest even more skillpoints into PPU which - again - reduces your damage output.. o_O


That's also another reason for removing the negative efect that PPU points have on your APU.

The choice of implants for hybrids is very limited. If you want to have a reasonable amount of both APU and PPU, then the chips that, eg, +10 to APU as well as -15 to PPU are, um, not good.

(and that's all of them really, except psi core and the MC5 version)




ie. Spending points into PPU already reduces the points you can put into APU, therefore reducing APU % stats along the way.

The poor choice of implants also means, that by going hybrid, you lose EVEN MORE APU points, therefore losing even more % stats on APU.

[Can be overcome slightly by having mad implanting skills :D]

I think that PPU points reducing the effectiveness of your APU (on top of these other 2 things) is overkill. It was the heals/damage boost/shields that were the problem, not the APU side of things.


Therefore, leave APU points having negative effect on PPU, but make APU unaffected by PPU lvl.

(God damn it!)

(please rate this thread at least a 2 or 3 * if you think it's worth considering/looking into by KK, ta)



[EDIT] attn of mod: could you please change the thread title to say:

[Brainport] Removal of negatives from PPU on APU - wrt hybrids

Please. Thank you. :) [END EDIT]

[Voodoochicken]

[Attn of mod: could you please change the thread title to say:

[Brainport] Removal of negatives from PPU on APU - wrt hybrids

Please. Thank you.


I noticed the title was a little misleading as soon as I'd posted and maybe people aren't even looking because of this.]


Really, I'm in favour of a total overhaul of PSI, perhaps with exotic psi back/removing MST, etc.

However, simply removing/reducing the negative of PPU on APU would make hybrids more fun to play.


No-one has said yet whether it would be possible to have a different equation for the effect of APU on PPU to PPU on APU.

[Psyco Groupie]

the problem is .. a holy shelter is a holy shelter ... and you can still use anti paralyse etc .. NO FULLSTOP NONOONONONONONONONONONONON