View Full Version : Slots
TheDuckMan
12-09-03, 21:01
I dont have alot of time to type this so i am going to be breif. Also if i am ressurecting an old topic.... tough because this is messed up.
I spent tons of cash some RoG parts. I got someone with 280 Cst to make it. He used and OP, drugs, CST boost 3.... i meen he was ready for slots. Guess what... no slots (obviously). KK, you guys and girls really need to do something about that. Slots can be random but i meen give ppl with 280 CST a chance ffs. :mad:
Thank you.
Phiberdelic
12-09-03, 21:06
shit happens...
I have a perfect no-slot CS (anyone wanna buy it off me...lol)
I am so worried that when it comes time to construct my Disruptor that it'll have no slots.
Originally posted by TheDuckMan
I dont have alot of time to type this so i am going to be breif. Also if i am ressurecting an old topic.... tough because this is messed up.
I spent tons of cash some RoG parts. I got someone with 280 Cst to make it. He used and OP, drugs, CST boost 3.... i meen he was ready for slots. Guess what... no slots (obviously). KK, you guys and girls really need to do something about that. Slots can be random but i meen give ppl with 280 CST a chance ffs. :mad:
Thank you.
bahahaa ;D and u were mad malcon didnt get u a slot 1 time , without a op or anythin ;P
btw malcon has made 2 5 slot libs since that ;p ps. btw i was lookin on ebay today and someones actually sellin a 5 slot lib :eek:
Slots are totaly random.
Zai at www.croncom.com has been keeping track of the amount of slots she gets on guns. From her research there is about an 18% chance of getting no slots on a rare weapon. I got a Pain Easer made with zero slots as well, but then i got lucky with a CS and got 3. Whatever you do dont blame the constructors. Blame yourself because you didnt pray to Slotor hard enough.
TheDuckMan
12-09-03, 21:09
nah malcon didnt have 280 cst. That was so long ago though. Plus if your going to quote me make sure you get it right. I was biulding an RoG (ray of god). Not a libby and its hardly funny.
never ever say ;] get me 5 slots, because u get 0 slots, every single time someone told me how many slots to get or even said i hope i at least get 2 slots, they ALWAYS get 0
ps. i did quote u right, i just wasnte reffering to the rog ;o
and malcon has TL 206 but atm his hawking is in my resser
TheDuckMan
12-09-03, 21:11
wasnt blaming the constructer either buddy. Plz read more carefully next time.
Originally posted by TheDuckMan
wasnt blaming the constructer either buddy. Plz read more carefully next time.
:eek: ;OO WHERE DID I SAY I WAS TALKIN BOUT ROG AND WHERE DID I SAY U WAS BLAMIN HIM?! ;OOOOOOOO gawd ;0
Originally posted by TheDuckMan
wasnt blaming the constructer either buddy. Plz read more carefully next time.
He was referring to my post.
I want implying that you were. Simplay stating that you should not. :D
Another loads of useless posts :eek:
It would be nice if KK could explain how the game actually works, at least. Rather than ppl guessing.
Also 280 Cst or even about 200, gettin 0 slot on a rare with the current rare problems is BANG outta order!! You might aswell just have 100 Cst !! Hence whats the point in lvling etc, just to be extremely poorly rewarded..And its not just in this case..
I've had loads of rares, high Cster, and loads of B*******. Explain to me again KK why Csters bother gettin loads of skill? (And not those ppl with high post count that have too much time on their hands :lol: ) Im with DuckMan on this. :mad:
Originally posted by MisterP
Another loads of useless posts :eek:
It would be nice if KK could explain how the game actually works, at least. Rather than ppl guessing.
Also 280 Cst or even about 200, gettin 0 slot on a rare with the current rare problems is BANG outta order!! You might aswell just have 100 Cst !! Hence whats the point in lvling etc, just to be extremely poorly rewarded..And its not just in this case..
I've had loads of rares, high Cster, and loads of B*******. Explain to me again KK why Csters bother gettin loads of skill? (And not those ppl with high post count that have too much time on their hands :lol: ) Im with DuckMan on this. :mad:
Actually there are quite a few constructors that have 130-140 CST with capped DEX that make excelent if not almost perfect weapons. That zero slot PE i was talking about is 120/119/115/115. The fact that it got no slot was pure luck. So i will be going back to that same constructor to get my RoG made :D
edit/ I supose the reason that peeps get supper high CST skills is so they can charge people more :P
my cnstr malcon has capped dex and int amd he gets nice stuff but doesnt always get slots
i was operating on the belief with rares construction as a limit:
(tested with 2 csts):
the higher the CST lvl the more likely u get slots BUT quality is going to go down at a certain CST lvl (not sure where that sweetspot is tho)
Test: CST#1: CST TL 275, no drugs: Built 3 rares: 1 slot HL, no slot para, no slot PE
Test: CST#2: CST TL 254, no drugs: Built 6 rares: 3 slot redeemer, 2 slot SH, 2 slot Dis, 1 slot earp (his embarrassing story), 3 slot HL
Theory goes: at 255 cst = 0 cst... so keep it under 255 and it should work still...
also, i've noticed that the "sweetspot" for good stats and good slots is on around CST 190-210 but still need to test that...
just my observations.
EVERY time i use drugs, the stats on the weapon ( not slots ) are always like 105-115 when i dont use drugs they are 99% of the time 116-120
Well ive not got alot of faith in slots atm :( I know kk want it random but its quiet ridiculous atm. Rares should have a min of one slot, as ammo mods are pretty much mandatory on a wep for pvp. Also they need to make more cst = more chance of slots, so far ive had 60 blacksuns built...best is a two slotter :mad:
i built 70 and the best were 5 3 slotters... rest 2s and 1s and 0s... (tho i got a 5 slot napalm and 4 slot atomsfist in 20 builds...)
up the slottage!
Psyco Groupie
12-09-03, 22:27
theres too many sluts in the game scaring the slots off ...
KidWithStick
12-09-03, 22:44
i got the 1337 1 slot CS glyc made me...hey its better than my no slot.
oh wait...i forgot i threw that no slotter away...since its useless =/
CRAIG DIGGERS
13-09-03, 01:02
Originally posted by Mantus
Slots are totaly random.
Thank you.
My cs was build with skill 155, i had to use drugs to activate the SS chip ....
:lol:
Originally posted by mdares
Theory goes: at 255 cst = 0 cst... so keep it under 255 and it should work still...
Wrong.. There is no rollover where 256 = 1 cst or 255 = 0..
Plus
255 in CST subskill is only 153 towards your Construction Ability (CA).
255cst x 0.6 = 153 CA
100INT x 0.1 = 10 CA
100DEX x 0.25 = 25 CA
Total = 188CA
My GM char has a total CA of 242.25, slots are still random for me as well.
more skill should = more slots.
Seeing as you know how to build things more efficiently and such.
:D
Slots should stay random, just the chances of slotting should improve as you go higher.
I am against guaranteed slots at a particular level because:
- Lower TL constructors will be out of work
- Rares with certain amount of slots will be too common and de-value the worth of a decently built item.
- Every muppet in Neocron will be pk'ing with 5 slot CSs and yelling "i ownz joo" thus reducing the roleplaying.
I am a TL 158 constructor and do apologise for no slot weapons but these are a balance to the amount of 3 or more slot weapons out there.
As I said more skill should not equal more slots BUT INSTEAD more skill should equal more chances of slots.
Or it would be nice if they made slotenhancers work on rares. :\
But who am I kidding, that's almost certainly not gonna happen.
--Stryfe
Originally posted by StryfeX
Or it would be nice if they made slotenhancers work on rares. :\
But who am I kidding, that's almost certainly not gonna happen.
--Stryfe
At one stage during beta they did but KK removed that ability as it imbalanced the rares and made them too good.
The slotenhancers only on normal weapons is a good balance as it increases the value of near rare weapons like the Tangent Fusion Cannon.
Originally posted by Weazle
At one stage during beta they did but KK removed that ability as it imbalanced the rares and made them too good.
The slotenhancers only on normal weapons is a good balance as it increases the value of near rare weapons like the Tangent Fusion Cannon. Pffft. There are some high-TL non-rare weapons that are decent in PvP, but that is not one of them.
And why not at least allow a v0.9 slotenhancer to be used with rares? A no-slot rare is complety worthless, aside from maybe hunting.
--Stryfe
TheDuckMan
13-09-03, 04:35
Originally posted by Lupus
Wrong.. There is no rollover where 256 = 1 cst or 255 = 0..
Plus
255 in CST subskill is only 153 towards your Construction Ability (CA).
255cst x 0.6 = 153 CA
100INT x 0.1 = 10 CA
100DEX x 0.25 = 25 CA
Total = 188CA
My GM char has a total CA of 242.25, slots are still random for me as well.
ok thanks that explains it then. This guy had 280 CST skill. thank you for gettin to this. It makes alittle sense now.
Edit/Addition: I am not saying i want 5 slots. I meen i just expected atleast 1 slot. But ok now that the help guy posted it... i understand.
[/b][/u]BlackDove's inventory stats[/b][/u] [< edit< HAHAHAHAHA, I'll leave it like that]
5 Ray of God Rifles
2 One Slotted
1 Two Slotted
2 Three Slotted
Beh...someone gimme more slots...:p
Ok, after logging my latest 11 slot-able rare builds tonight, I spent a little time looking over my spreadsheet at my build history. It consists of the builds of two constructors, one who built rares "pre slot-nerf" with Int/Dex around 80 and skill of 135 base, and my new constructor with Int 95 Dex 95 Skill 150 base.
When I build, I always drug out, and usually use a friendly OP if available.
Tonight I constructed at 121 Int, 117 Dex, and Skill 215.
(w/imps,+25 from friendly factory, no boosts, and all drugs but drop only Int)
Of the 11 slottable builds, I got this:
2 Slot artifact PE (Artifact says it all)
2 Slot perfect MS x2 (good stats)
1 slot perfect Executioner (great stats)
0 slot perfect Executioner (crap stats)
0 slot perfect Fire Apocalypse (good stats)
1 slot perfect Beam of Hell (good stats)
1 slot perfect Holy Firestorm (good stats)
2 slot artifact Blade of Ceres (think it was artifact)
2 slot perfect Redeemer (great stats)
5 slot artifact Paw of Bear
I'm not a mathemtical genius, as I'll be the first to admit, but I have an eye for trends in numbers, and when I spent a little time looking over the builds from my fairly uber "post slot-nerf" constructor and the fairly crappy "pre slot-nerf" constr some things started to jump out at me.
Not trusting my sample since it's only 221 rare builds, not all of which are slot-able items, I went searching on the forums and found reference to Zai's log on croncom.com. After a fair amount of time looking over those #'s and comparing them to mine, my original thoughts are only reinforced. I wish I knew how far back Zai's building goes, but I am going to assume it straddles the "slot-nerf" since so many have been built.
So, those are my sources, between them I examined the slot #'s for roughly several hundred slot-able rare item builds. Based on that information here is my hypothesis:
1. Before the slot-nerf, slots were random to a wider range than now. (possibly 0-3 or 0-4, not enough info to say for sure)
2. After the slot-nerf, slots became random from 0-2. Period
3. There is obviously a second (ha-ha) "random" chance to get additional slots, that may or may not be influenced by other factors such as TL of the weapon and/or the TL of your skill, Int/Dex/Skill, use of drugs, use of boosts, natural skill versus imp/boost/factory skill adds.
4. I think the second roll is a 1:10 or 1:20 shot at getting another random 1-3 slots. (currently. It may be that pre slot-nerf the second roll chance was higher which would replace the higher range of slots possible on the first roll to be the same as post nerf)
Zai doesnt run totals in a way that makes this easy to gauge, and Im too tired tonight to copy the info into another spreadsheet to get the #s I need to pull a more realistic % on the second roll. And since I cant tell which of Zai's builds are pre nerf like I can on my .xls, the #'s would skew anyway.
Nonetheless, I am 99.99% sure that even if my number's are a little off, this is the real deal. KK only knows if there is a true influence on the rolls or not, but I have heard every "superstitious method" you can think of that people think influence it. E.g. Don't use boosts, use drugs (esp Int), use imps, use factory, put the parts in a certain order, sit down, etc etc etc
So, assuming that KK is telling the truth, slots are "random" but they are "random" twice not once, which is still not lying, but not telling all the truth, as is to be expected...
So just for fun KK, here's a clue why the "rare" system is frustrating for casual gamers and even people like me who practically live in the damn game:
The NeoCron Lottery Ad Nauseum
1. Win lotto #1, find an uncamped place to hunt tech dropping mobs where someone doesn't steal your hacks and/or your target.
2. Win lotto #2, the mob produces a tech!!!
3. Win lotto #3, get the part ID'd and not have it break
4. Win lotto #4, actually receive your own tech back from the guy/gal who researched it for you. (If you have your own researcher, skip lotto #4)
5. WIn lotto #5, the tech part is for something you want!
5. Win lotto #5, repeat lotto #'s 1-4 until you actually have all the parts to build the item you want. (only 250+ techs in the pool how bad can it be? See lotto's #1-5...)
6. Win lotto #6, find a constructor with enough skill and reputation to build the rare. (if you have your own constructor of worth, skip lotto #6)
7. Win lotto #7, and get a slot or 2
8. Win lotto #8, and get another slot or three
9. Win lotto #9, and actually receive your own weapon back from the constructor who built it. (if you have your own constructor of worth, skip lotto #9)
10. If lottos #7-9 fail, start over at lotto #1 and repeat until weapon that meets your perceived needs is in your hot little hands. (if weapon is lost for any reason, start again at lotto #1)
11. Start again at lotto #1 to build the rest of the rare weapons you want your character to have.
So, why are people frustrated? I forget...
There's my input, maybe someone will volunteer to run Zai's #'s a little diff to get a % chance on the second roll while I'm asleep?
Btw, this is _exactly why_ I was bitching about the recent dilution of the rares pool with "one-off" crap like the Gloves, without pulling the worthless crap already cluttering it up because KK changed the game to make parashock and melee worthless without doing anything about them still being in the rare techs pool. (one off meaning no one will ever need another one once they have it)
And for the record, they are called "rares" because you "rare"ly geta tech you want, and when you do, they "rare"ly build worth a flying #### at a rolling donut!
'nuff said
Ok, almost... one more thing worth mentioning that you programmer types can probably comment on to some degree...
most random # generators aren't all that random! From the reading I have done, they theoretically have gotten better in the last 10 years with the adances in computing, but any random # generator is only as good as the person who coded it and it's final implementation. Also, quite often in games, and not just stand alones (hint hint) the seed # for the random generation is based on a your system clock or something similar.
So, if you ever feel like the game is giving you a streak of bad luck, chances are (lol, pun intended) it probably is, and you should power down your system completely and then log back in and your luck just might change... (this may not be true anymore, but it was within the last 5 years)
As for the rest, I leave the assesment of the origin and quality of NC's particular RNG to those who are more knowledgable than I.
really 'nuff said '-)
WE!!! want to know is what influences the slottage. As it is now people are using unorthodox methods (praying to slotgod- ffs :) ).
Getting rare parts could be compared to a lottery but it is a bit cynical. It does take some effort though getting the parts nowdays since they dont drop in 10's of every warbot etc. Making people work hard for 1. getting part 2. trading parts.
But still I want to know exactly how to skill my constructor to get some extra juice when it comes to pumping the slotgod. Reading it on some fansite kinda makes me wonder why Im reading it on the fansite and not the neocron site.
i've noticed since patch that drop rate has decreased by 2 almost, and i'm not the only conster who has seen that happen, have to build 100 fuking tpc to get a 5 slotter!!
Dribble Joy
03-10-03, 14:23
Some one stated a while ago that:
'The only thing determining chance of slots is overall build quality'
Hence. As quality capps at around CST 150 (I think?) there is no effect in putting more into CST.
As the quality cap for non-rares is lower, chance of slots is also lower.
The rest is pure chance :D
Yep, slotes is such random for rare and complitely unbelivable random for normal weapons ...
As example - yesterday built with my conster (Int 95 Dex 105 construction 199) 1-slotted Judge with crap stats :( , but 3-slotted Silent Hunter (after modded it have all stats 120% and xray ammo mod :cool: ), 3-slotted Liberator (same as SH will be after will get last part for pistol ultima I need), 2-slotted Pain Easer (doomed to 2-slotted PEs :( ) and 3-slotted Paw of tiger.
Or built near 8 First loves total, 2 with 1 slot, 1 5-slotted, others with 2 slots (and maybe 1 with no slots at all ...).
I think your jsut unlucky, I have never had a 0 sloted rare weapon made and tehreis a very low chance of it happening, and thats they way it should be, sorry m8 but you just got unlucky this time, wish you luck next time you get a rare made.
Originally posted by El Barto
I think your jsut unlucky, I have never had a 0 sloted rare weapon made and tehreis a very low chance of it happening, and thats they way it should be, sorry m8 but you just got unlucky this time, wish you luck next time you get a rare made.
The is just too much lack of luck. I build for example 4 pain easer lately and out of these 4, 2 were 0 slot. This is just sad. I pretty often get 0 slot from two uber constructors and there is no way they swap the items if someone might have that idea.
I think the SE 0.9 should remain a rare item, but we should be able to use it on rare weapons. Techparts are now hard to come by, so I think it is necessary to enable slot enhancer 0.9 on rares again to get a chance to guarantee at least the one so needed slot for the ammo-mod. Still, Im against using SE 1.5 and illegal on rares.
high level non-rare weps are very hard to get slots on, it seems more than rares. so that's what slot enhancers are for. if there are not enough slot enhancers around - well then that's a problem.
as for slot rate on rares, well I'm not going to weigh in on that.
zero slotted rare?
quit whining and suck it up.
I made 4 cursed souls on pluto since the server start.... 3 with 0 slots and one with 1 slot.... fun eh ? :P
good thing I looted 2 x 3 slots and a 2 sloter....
gotta love the old loot rules...
Ok, guess I need start keeping a spread sheet about builds, item tl and slots.
I build my first rare weapon some time ago, I had CST 150 base (160 with SS), INT 96sh and DEX 110sh. The rare was a wyatt earp, build without drugs and it was a 3 slotter. I'm currently at work so I can't recheck the quality and what my stats were (I take fullscreen shots of the weapon plus skills I have)
What I've noticed about TL and slots, building a 5 slotted TL3 heal took 200 tries! I had one 4 slotter, around 6 3 slotters and some 2, 1 and 0 slotters in that batch as well.
I also build 20 UPCs to some tank and I got a 5 slotter in the 4rd try. There was also 2 3 slotter, couple 2 and 1 slotters as well.
Atleast I think I'm starting to make a reputation as a builder :)
Anyway, I'm starting to keep my own spreadsheet about the batches, TLs and slots to see what kind of percentages of slots I get.
// Wannabe
Keyol45743241
03-10-03, 16:18
Not all constructors, even those with high techlevels are trustworthy.
Neither is a single researcher, I know of exactly TWO on the whole Jupiter I'd trust as far as I can spit..... the rest makes a living out of scamming. Most researchers with insane research levels are secondary chars .... guess where the valueable parts go to? :rolleyes:
If we had a way to see if the guy is giving you back the rarepart or the pistol you gave him to construct or research... that would render everyone without access to someone you can trust completely (clan, your brother you can spank in the room next door) with a lot more valueable rares.
Mind if I tell a little story? I had all my stuff researched by a single clan, over months. That clan was one of the most respected clans of jupiter, their conster the most famous one. I even gave their resser a loan of 500k (a lot of money at that time) so he could buy himself a TL150 research tool........
For all those months I never received a single CS part in return for what I gave them. Fat chance, huh? That was the time when not Monkehs were teh 0wn0rz but CS Tanks....
actully i gave zai a bunch of items for her to build.. and with all constructiors..rifles dont slot worth the life of them, out of 3, 2 rogs and a dis, a 2 slot and a 1 slot
as for spells though, 2 four slotters 2 three slotters and a 0 slot.. from everyone i spoke to spells seem to slot nicely
also being a ppu ..at one time a pistol ppu i have 100 bps to 4 differnt constrcutors and asked them to bp me a noob pistol, these where very well known and high constructors..the most i got was 2 slots, i reapeated the process..100 bps 4 constructors...guess what..highest 2 slots..
My idea on slots is every rare should have at least 1 Slot ALWAYS. A rare can still be very good with 1 slot. The stats could be amazing so it wouldn't matter, but with 0 slots, you can't even have an ammo mod :(
Keyol45743241
04-10-03, 14:41
I have to agree with mankind here.....
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