Should pointsinks become more useful?

[Heavyporker]

I' ve been thinking about this, after all the cries about T-C and MST...

Perhaps they should become more than merely a requirement...

I'm not saying that T-C and MST should give RC/PC/HC or APU/PPU respectively. Oh no, that'd be far too messy and inelegant.

Rather, I propose that having T-C become a secondary component similiar to Weapon Lore, and MST becomes a secondary component similiar to PSI Use.

Having high amounts of either would augment the existing amount of WPL or PSU already skilled for. Quite similiar to "Hacking = 90% HCK + 10% RCL". Not that I'm necessarily proposing that the current caps be changed all over. Look at it this way - you still need it, but it'll actually HELP overall. Another way to look at it (this is for the tradeskillers) that having JUST that little less in a INT subskill could be compensated for with just that much more in the respective subskill, freeing up a few more INT points, and still remain just as effective...

So for those that already have the requirement, their overall skill would be enhanced. For those that doesn't need as much in the requirement, but want more oomph in the INT department, could have the chance to compensate.

The 90% main, 10% req, sounds about fair to me.

Comments, constructive criticism, and discussion appreciated.

[Alex Mars]

If your goal is make characters a bit more generalized, I think a different approach is needed. Your idea is a good one but it is a piecemeal approach and would require adjusting the game formulae, but I'd suggest just increasing the costs of skills at the 110+ level (perhaps doubling them) to make it more expensive to get the big numbers. If the choice is a pile of exp to gain +1 skill or buying some utility skill like Vehicles or Recycling, more people might opt for the generalist path.

[Breschau]

Personally I'd prefer both to simply be removed altogether. But failing that I'd support (possibly with ammendments) pretty much anything that made them actually useful instead of merely required.

I also like anything that makes a generalist character more attractive/viable/effective. But KK appear to hold the opposite opinion - they hate generalists with a vengeance - so I'd not be too hopeful (at least, that's the impression I get from their actions).

[Heavyporker]

Likely, if T-C and MST were removed, KK would raise the curve on capping the weapons again, so I think asking for their removal would backfire.

Though generalists would be badly needed. Soem do exist, but I don't think they're anywhere nearly as viable as balls-to-the-wall specialists.

*I* consider myself a generalist of sorts, really. Yes, really. Pure APU, but that's because I hunt(ed) a lot. I hack (quite high level), drone (MR scout drone), recycle, drive all vecs( all first generation vecs, that is)... I'm even thinking about changing my setup even further to be more generalized...

But I doubt I'd become hybrid... Something just keeps me back from being one. Yes, even when hybrids were overpowered, I steadfastly remained pure APU, and right now, hybrids just got fucked over a bit too much. If hybrids became a little less nerfed (read, 20% weakening instead of the 47% or something current value), then I might become a TRUE generalist... It's something to contemplate.

[enablerbr]

well i think KK should keep the T-C but give players an equal selection of high-tech and non-tech weapons. at the end of the day the ammo is basically only normal, fire moded, energy moded, xray moded and on flamers posion moded.

though i would like to see some form of posion mods for rifles and pistols. say call it cyanide or something.

[Dirus]

Originally posted by Heavyporker
If hybrids became a little less nerfed (read, 20% weakening instead of the 47% or something current value), then I might become a TRUE generalist... It's something to contemplate.

It is 30% at the very lowest of the formula Ladder. Looking at your Spell's Stats drop 47% means nothing at all really as the amount of the drop depends on a few things.

It was originally 20% and that didn't have enough of an effect.

[Heavyporker]

Well, lupus, I think you'd have to consider the cumulative effect of the monk nerfs beyond just the most recent hybrid nerf. They hit ALL monks hard, and now things are just butts-up for hybrids.

I'd think a hard-set value of only blessed PPU/holy halo APU plus merely a 10-15% reduction in strength for hybrids would be fairer and less harsh than nearly halving (ingame 47%) their overall ability.

edit - what do you mean, look at other things than spell stats?

[enablerbr]

well seeing as KK has started to bring in class only items. surely these monk restictions can be lifted. all KK needs to do is make PPU spells a PPU only monk class usage and vice versa. that way no hybrids cause each class of monk can only use their class of spells.

[Heavyporker]

Hybrids should and MUST be viable... They shouldn't be as powerful as the pure monks in their given class, but they should have a fair amount of strength nonetheless. Their being vastly overpowered before shouldn't reflect on them now, only as a reminder that balance in the force is needed.

The high-requirement antibuff/superior/PAs were enough to lock most sane hybrids out.

Lifting the mana cap would mean monks would have more choice (hmm, mana or damage, hmm) and that sane hybrids wouldn't be so inclined to try to use the rares (if KK doesn't do the blessed PPU/ holy halo hardcap like I suggested).

[Ehyuko]

I'd love to see skills with no purpose to have some, seems silly to have pointsink skills at all. If anything it would help break up the cookie cutter setups a little.

Personally I'd love to see the effects of specialization reduced as currently it seems unless you just pick one main weapon and focus all your skills in it, you are nowhere near as effective. The bonus for people with very high skill levels [170 apu/ppu, 180-190 rcl] only compund this problem. This isn't just about being able to use more then one weapon type, but even small skills like driving take away from a rifle/pistol/droner's effectiveness, thus you have few people that actually will drive even though many want to.

[Heavyporker]

Yeah... though I have to admit, it's nice to have a large market for my driving skills :D

Yeah, seems important that KK needs to lower the area of overskill bonus (currently like 160+ on everything important, right? so pushing it down to 140-150 would be an enormous difference ( the 50 to 100 extra points (don't make me do maths) could make for a lot of leeway in setups ))

[Drusus]

Originally posted by Ehyuko
I'd love to see skills with no purpose to have some, seems silly to have pointsink skills at all. If anything it would help break up the cookie cutter setups a little.

Personally I'd love to see the effects of specialization reduced as currently it seems unless you just pick one main weapon and focus all your skills in it, you are nowhere near as effective. The bonus for people with very high skill levels [170 apu/ppu, 180-190 rcl] only compund this problem. This isn't just about being able to use more then one weapon type, but even small skills like driving take away from a rifle/pistol/droner's effectiveness, thus you have few people that actually will drive even though many want to.

Dead On Right.

(Yeah, I'm gone, but you are RIGHT on the money. Diversity GOOD. Cookie Cutter and Idiot Savants, BAD)

Drusus

[{MD}GeistDamnit]

mst should affect casting time and accuracy ( less fizzle )

and TC should add some of the dmg and aim to tec based weapons.

that would be nice :)

[Heavyporker]

Geist... that's what I said, but in more precise terms o_O

Nice to have your support anyway. :o :angel:

[{MD}GeistDamnit]

Originally posted by Heavyporker
Geist... that's what I said, but in more precise terms o_O

Nice to have your support anyway. :o :angel:


damnit i hate readin when im drunk :( the comprehention goes right out the window :p

I dident see u say that, just that they should be more usefull. my mistake :D

Edit: ok I read it now, and yeah 90% / 10% seems good, maybe 80 / 20 would be better for tc but 90 / 10 for mst is good.

[Heavyporker]

Actually, I agree with you about that 80/20 thing... those guys has to have a lot of it anyway so they'd need all the help. Plus it means T-C pistolers won't have to touch WPL at all, lol.