View Full Version : PSI Monk PA-Implant problem (Read all before vote)
The Facts
As it has been said by KK, the Power Armors are a combat tool specially designed for a certain class with bonuses to improve its combat effectivity.
Following the requeriments of PA's stated by Callash:
PA-1: pre-capped chars
PA-2: capped chars
PA-3: imp-donning capped chars
PA-4: imp-donning drug abuse capped chars
As it is now, in all classes the reqs should be perfectly fitted for this.
The Top Implants of each class (Meaning MC-5, the rare cerebral chip, and the top spine/backbone) would allow the classes to wear the third PA.
The Problem
Then, assuming that PA3 will have 115 main skill req
- Tank: Hercules/Marines/Backbone3 + capped ---> 116 str
- Spy: SA/Special Forces/Reflexbooster4 ---> 115 dex
- Monk: DS/Psi Core/...? ---> 111 psi
As you can see, due the lack Psi backbone, monks cannot wear the PA with its normal combat chips, having to sacrifice damage for a memory 3 (another cerebral chip) or gimp his already bad force resist wearing an exp psi controler 3 (another cerebral chip).
Any other class has room to wear two combat chips of his election; where apu monks decide to use attack 2-3, ppu's go for defensive 2-3 or resistor, tanks for resistor + moveon and spies the same.
So monks cannot achieve the normal combat configuration to take full advantage of our combat skills, and wearing PA3 without drugs, as it has been stated.
These are the most usual TOP combat setups:
- Tank: Marines + Hercules + Backbone3 Moveon + Resistor - 119 str - Wear PA3 without drugs.
- Spy: Sinaptic Acc + Special Forces + Reflexbooster4 + Distance3 (or moveon) + Distance2 (or resistor/berz2) - dex 115 - Will wear PA3 without drugs
- Monk: Dimension Splitter + Psi Core + Attack 2 + Attack 3 - Psi 111 - Need to take one drug to wear PA3.
The Solution
This thread could perfectly be posted in the Test Server Forum, which after a time I would be grateful if any moderator could move it.
But here is the part that belongs to the community Tank, the Poll.
The possible solutions to this problem, would be adding...
1 +1-2-3 psi main skill bonuses to attack/defensive chips 1-2-3 respectively.
2 +4/5 Psi main skill backbone3
3 +4/5 Psi main skill eye3
This is where I would like that people give their opinion.
With this poll, following a good line of propositions, I want to suggest a change to bring monks more in the fair line of other classes. Only asking for what in my opinion is a fair addition to the game.
Its sad that you only gain 2 APU + u need drugs to wear PA 3
I going on PA2 and attack 2-3. Dont wanna use drugs for every GR I do... Thats kinda crappy so PA2 4 ever :D
Heavyporker
10-09-03, 21:40
why, why, why do people keep on talking like every monk has a DS!?
Geesh.
And nothing wrong with exppsi 3. Not like force ever did anything good for monks, always messing us up.
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 21:44
Originally posted by Heavyporker
why, why, why do people keep on talking like every monk has a DS!?
I agree. Mc5 chips should not be in anyway considered by KK when discussing how pa should be worn. Their simply too rare and difficult to get. Only a handful of monks have them.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
And nothing wrong with exppsi 3. Not like force ever did anything good for monks, always messing us up.
monks need all the force they can get. And -20 is a hefty penalty. lol I swear sometimes I feel like monks have the worst imp setup. I wear psi core and xp controller, and i have to drug up to use pa3. lol. I have to CAP, to be able to use only one drug. :p
dido... give +1/+3/+5 psi lvl to attack/defense 1/2/3 (or wutever) so that monks can wear PA3 w/o drugging...
and that -20 frc is fairly important; with it PEs/Libbies dont hurt as much; without it, its rappage... (or something close to that... assuming i dont move...)
yesh give main stat bonuses to psi attack/defense chips plz!
5 stars :D
/edit: i dunt want backbone/eye cuz in a more realistic sense, a backbone will not help psi (mind); the eye might work but eh... and besides i got reflex 1 and smart eye 1 so i got good eye and backbones already :D
That's not assuming that every monk has a DS, pay more attention to what I am trying to explain.
Every class can wea PA3 with TOP IMPLANTS, this includes DS/SA/etc.. except the monk. That's what I am trying to point.çç
And that's the use of PA3; read the description by Callash - Implant Donning Capped Chars -. Implant donning has to include DS.
Sorry if you dont have one, but the thread is going by a different way.
The Fact is all CLases should be able 2 wear PA 3 without drugs:rolleyes: else it simply aint fair
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 21:55
Originally posted by Sleawer
And that's the use of PA3; read the description by Callash - Implant Donning Capped Chars -. Implant donning has to include DS.
Then their should be a choice between DS and another imp.
I hope mc5 chips aren't required for future stuff. I can see it now a rare poison spell that is TL 120. :rolleyes:
Heavyporker
10-09-03, 22:04
Theres PSI Core, exppsi, psimem... that's +15.
either exp psi 2 or psi mem 2 will give you 3 more PSI... then you should be in range, perhaps just have to pop a mild psidrug...
So with imps, capped chars COULD get to 115-120 PSI through implants.
Never assume people have the optimal implant setup. For a realistic arguement, go by the norm - PSI core and storebought/level3s.
Zu (Pluto)
10-09-03, 22:06
It'll be bad if you absolutely need MC5s. It's bad enough now that rares are in a completely different league and you need to be fully rared-up to have a chance against the big scary runners.
Anyway, I vote for adding it to the chips simply because it seems like the easiest thing to do. Mind you, some psi-type backbones and eyes would be nice. Not sure what they should do though.
Zu
{MD}GeistDamnit
10-09-03, 22:08
yeah I noticed this crap a while ago, it is annoying :(
also it is not worth it to use unless you drug into pa3, and pa4 is a total waste of time :/
now that hibrids they need to fix monks as well as their PA.
*shrugs* as usual I am the monk with the weirdest implants, stuff a DS and like my Hawkins, it gives me a nice +5 dex and I like my dex. :D
another point being, spies can use 2 MC5 chips that add to both their main skills.
SA = REQ 95 dex, +6 Dex +5 Int
Hawkins = REQ 95 Int, +6 Int +5 Dex
Face it guys, life is'nt fair in the world of Neocron, it never has been and it never will be, does it bother me? not really.
Spies = overpowered :D
Add PSI backbone similar to Harden Backbone for tanks(+1/+3/+5).
Also add +1/+2/+3 PSI to the Attack/Def chips.
Hell why not add a eye too, something like: +5 apu or ppu/+5 mst/+10 ppw/+10 (whatever the INT skill is called).
QuantumDelta
10-09-03, 22:40
Monk implants require a heavy rework, I have already said this.
I agree with your points.
I also agree with Jolt, to a point, PPU/APU Chips.
I believe EXP PSI CONT3 should be the equivilent of the EXP Ballistic3.
EXP Bal3 Takes 3 STR, but gives 3 DEX AND 3 INT.
Why does EXP PSI CONT3 only give 5 + to a level skill, and, WHY does it have that AWEFUL -20 FOR when it has -5 STR??
monks using a ds+psicore+exp3+exp2 can wear it undrugged and can drugg to 4 in 1 i think
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 23:15
Originally posted by hinch
monks using a ds+psicore+exp3+exp2 can wear it undrugged and can drugg to 4 in 1 i think
All you need is 100 base psi, psi core, an mc5 chip( :rolleyes: ), and xp controller or psi memory 3.
Wearing xp cont 3 and 2 totally negates the points of wearing PA since you lose so much valuable apu/ppu.
QuantumDelta
10-09-03, 23:18
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
All you need is 100 base psi, psi core, an mc5 chip( :rolleyes: ), and xp controller or psi memory 3.
Wearing xp cont 3 and 2 totally negates the points of wearing PA since you lose so much valuable apu/ppu.
PSI Mem is worse.. :P
im still hybrid remember :) i dont wear pa
@Shadow Dancer, there are alternative chips to DS, as it is the exp psi controler 3 or the memory 3; like there are alternative chips to SA, Hercules and Hawk which add +5 to the main skill.
@HeavyPorker, you keep failing to see the point. Monks, unlike other classes, have to sacrifice one cerebral implant to wear the PA, hence losing damage, force resist and strenght.
And Porker, PA3 is for people with the optimal implant setup... yet I have to see store-bought psi implants lvl3 O_o
You cannot replace a spine for a cerebral chip, and assume that is the same. Try to tell PE's to use motoric instead exp reflex4, because it is the same.
Wearing exp 2-3 for an apu is a joke.. a ppu might wear exp3 instead the defensive 2, but he has holy deflector to compensate the force resist lost.
QuantumDelta
10-09-03, 23:37
Originally posted by Sleawer
motoric instead exp reflex4, because it is the same.
:lol:
This is what I have been talkin about.....
Anyway what I am saying is simple; other classes are perfectly fitted to wear PA3, if they have the correct implant setup.. it wont gimp them in any way. Monks should take that as an example, and have the same chances.
Why if something is correct, shouldnt be applied in the same terms to everyone?
ghandisfury
11-09-03, 00:25
There should be eyes just like their alternates (plus15 to main, plus 10 to sub for the eye), and they should aslo add in back bones for the simple fact that it wouldn't be fair that a PSI eye would add PSI levels.
Heavyporker
11-09-03, 00:28
Hm... removing reqs to backbones sounds off and risky... imbalance and all that jazz...
but still, I'm all for removing reqs from the hand grenades. i mean, wtf you need 170 STR and 230 H-C to use a 1 lb ball of boom-boom?
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 00:32
Originally posted by Sleawer
@Shadow Dancer, there are alternative chips to DS, as it is the exp psi controler 3 or the memory 3
That's only if there were extra imps that added psi. And you can't use psi mem 3, or you end up LOSING power/mana/damage/whatever.
As of now you need 100 base psi, ds, psi core, and xp 3 to wear the PA3 without DRUGS.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Anyway what I am saying is simple; other classes are perfectly fitted to wear PA3, if they have the correct implant setup.. it wont gimp them in any way. Monks should take that as an example, and have the same chances.
Why if something is correct, shouldnt be applied in the same terms to everyone?
I agree.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
but still, I'm all for removing reqs from the hand grenades. i mean, wtf you need 170 STR and 230 H-C to use a 1 lb ball of boom-boom?
rofl, for a second there I thought you were talking about actual reqs.
But Shadow, PA3 is for capped chars with the most optimal implants or equivalent.
Of course that a memory3 or exp3 is not the same as a DS, but still it is an alternative. A motoric chip is not the same as a SA, it doesnt provide bonuses, but still alows you to meet the main skill reqs to use weapons, other implants, and the PA.
Eventually a player can find and gather the needed parts for the top implant, that in addition to the main skill points necessary to use PA's, will give you bonuses in combat habilities.
My gripe is that other classes are perfectly balanced in this matter (regarding PA's), but even with the same top implants, monks cannot wear PA3 (designed for capped chars, 100 psi) due the lack of a backbone.
I tend to think like QD in this...
- Exp psi controler - Exp balistic chip
- Psi controler - Targeting computer
- Attack/defence chips - Distance cpu's
- Motoric - Memory
It is a bit flawed, that's why I suggested the idea of adding a psi main skill bonus to attack/defence chips.. but honestly, the ideal solution would be a psi backbone.
As a ppu i darent use a exp psi 3 and losing the ppu from defensive psi 2 or 3 isnt worth using the pa....
Every force point counts for me... and believe me it does have an effect and the chances of me getting a ds this millenium are uhhh slim..
My backbone currently will be adv nerves 3 for the heavy belts.... nerfing my str further aswell as psi on top is not good :/
why do so many ppl talk about MC5 chips as if everyone had one?
Oh, about the topic...i dont care. actually i dont even see the problem.
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 01:27
Originally posted by Sleawer
But Shadow, PA3 is for capped chars with the most optimal implants or equivalent.
Of course that a memory3 or exp3 is not the same as a DS, but still it is an alternative. A motoric chip is not the same as a SA, it doesnt provide bonuses, but still alows you to meet the main skill reqs to use weapons, other implants, and the PA.
um, i'm not exactly sure how many times I have to explain my point to you.
XP3 is only a viable alternative if there was already a spine/eye/whatever imp that added PSI. As it is now, i wear psi core, xp 3, and have 100 base and i still have to drug up. I would have to wear an addition psi giving imp, effectlively losing my +10 from attack chip 2 making it pointess.
And they didn't say capped with most optimal imps, they said capped with imps.
MC5 imps are too rare and so difficult to get, unlike psi core they shouldn't even be "considered" when it comes to reqs for spells, armor, etc...
Originally posted by Sleawer
Eventually a player can find and gather the needed parts for the top implant,
I hope KK isn't thinking like that. If Mc5 chips start becoming requirements for items in the future, then Nullifidian is right in that this game will become EverCamp Neocron style.
Q`alooaith
11-09-03, 01:39
If we psi's get Psi backbones, we'd either have to lose Psi memory or EXP psi controlers..
Because, with a Psi backbone, (top level) giving +5 psi, and a DS, Psi core, EXP 3 and Psi Mem 3, that'd be +26 psi.. putting us within reach of PA4 without drugs..
I think that's right, no wait, I'm sure I'm wrong..
Anyway, I want a psi backbone, it'd be nice, I'd also love shelter bones, with Psi as req's and such..
isnt psi core + psi mem 3 + exp psi cont 3= 15 in psi
so a capped monk can wear it, you just have to change your imp setup
though correct me if im wrong, cant be bothered logging my monk on
Originally posted by ezza
isnt psi core + psi mem 3 + exp psi cont 3= 15 in psi
so a capped monk can wear it, you just have to change your imp setup
though correct me if im wrong, cant be bothered logging my monk on
you lose apu/ppu so whats the point, may aswell stick to PA2
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 01:44
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
If we psi's get Psi backbones, we'd either have to lose Psi memory or EXP psi controlers..
Because, with a Psi backbone, (top level) giving +5 psi, and a DS, Psi core, EXP 3 and Psi Mem 3, that'd be +26 psi.. putting us within reach of PA4 without drugs..
I think that's right, no wait, I'm sure I'm wrong..
Anyway, I want a psi backbone, it'd be nice, I'd also love shelter bones, with Psi as req's and such..
Isn't pa4 135 psi?
Originally posted by ezza
isnt psi core + psi mem 3 + exp psi cont 3= 15 in psi
so a capped monk can wear it, you just have to change your imp setup
though correct me if im wrong, cant be bothered logging my monk on
*screams at the universe*
PA3 gives +13 apu/ppu. Assuming someone(without ds) is wearing psi core, chip 3, 2, and 1, they'll get a totall of 35 apu/ppu from all those imps. If you replace chip 2 and 1 with xp3 and psi mem3, you lose 15 apu/ppu. So then you can wear pa3, at the loss of 20 force, -5 str, and 2apu/ppu.
so what you have to change your imp setup big fucking deal, i would have to drop one of my imps and stick bez 3 in on my tank, which would sacrifice speed or resists depending on what i do, so there is a lose for tanks putting on there PA3(presuming it was the 115str which it will be)
Wtf Shadow, are you dumb? that's exactly my point, first post first page... the viable alternative like exp3 or memory3 is for the DS, becomes a flaw because we dont have a backbone... arg.
Capped with top implants exactly, and I dont mean DS or core, because there should be always a non-rare alternative. At the moment we lack of one alternative, because we dont have backbone.
Ezza please re-read... I think Shadow explained it even clearer than me. As he doesnt have exp3, then he even needs to wear a memory3 or drug up... losing again another cerebral imps.
Do not mess chips with backbones or eyes... is not the same, and the implant setup is very important in a character, which has to take into account every factor and slot used.
*edit: no offence with dumb, I still luv you :p
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 01:51
Originally posted by Sleawer
Wtf Shadow, are you dumb? that's exactly my point, first post first page... the viable alternative like exp3 or memory3 is for the DS, becomes a flaw because we dont have a backbone... arg.
Slewer do me a favor, and SLOWLY read each post in this thread, in ORDER.
thx
all im saying is that you can wear it with 3 fairly common implants*shrugs*
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 01:52
Originally posted by ezza
all im saying is that you can wear it with 3 fairly common implants*shrugs*
And a spy can kill a cs using tank with a non rare pistol.
*shrugs*
What we're talking about is REALISTIC and VIABLE setups and paths.
Originally posted by ezza
all im saying is that you can wear it with 3 fairly common implants*shrugs*
with fairly harsh losses compared to the tank sacrifices
Q`alooaith
11-09-03, 01:54
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Isn't pa4 135 psi?
Ok so one drug... but then it'd stay on... ahh fuck it(not you, my memory, or whats left of it, maybe my minds gone too)..
GIVE us a psi backbone...
And a Psi Eye, both attack and defence... or just a PPW eye..
We need more PPW..
how is it not realistic to use those 3 imps.
personally im not bothered about this as my monk happily wears the PA3 and with my setup i have no problem killing.
shadow if you cant accept that there is a impsetup that allows you to wear the PA undrugged its not my prob
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Ok so one drug... but then it'd stay on... ahh fuck it(not you, my memory, or whats left of it, maybe my minds gone too)..
GIVE us a psi backbone...
And a Psi Eye, both attack and defence... or just a PPW eye..
We need more PPW..
i say make SCE's req int instead of dex, easier for monks to use better belts
Originally posted by LTA
with fairly harsh losses compared to the tank sacrifices
wtf if your wearing PA3 your as slow as shit, so that means it gives a monk a hell of a lot more time to destroy you with HL, and and fuck i took my resister chip out to wear this peice of crap so i got pwned even quicker:rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 02:01
Originally posted by ezza
how is it not realistic to use those 3 imps.
You LOSE out by wearing it. How much more clear can I make it to you? You recieve NO bonuses, and lose out. Which makes no sense.
Originally posted by ezza
shadow if you cant accept that there is a impsetup that allows you to wear the PA undrugged its not my prob
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by ezza
wtf if your wearing PA3 your as slow as shit, so that means it gives a monk a hell of a lot more time to destroy you with HL, and and fuck i took my resister chip out to wear this peice of crap so i got pwned even quicker:rolleyes:
um honey, with the imp setup above you get NO bonus and LOSE OUT as opposed to the tank who does get some bonus at least. Not to mention(at least for now) we get no force/piercing on our pa. No force/pierce+xp controller=dead in 2 seconds to explosive/piercing weapons.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
um honey, with the imp setup above you get NO bonus and LOSE OUT as opposed to the tank who does get some bonus at least. Not to mention(at least for now) we get no force/piercing on our pa. No force/pierce+xp controller=dead in 2 seconds to explosive/piercing weapons.
honeyo_O
Ezza, that has no sense, the fact that you dont mind of your own setup or char, doesnt justify a so clear unfairness compared to other classes.
The loss of ATL in tanks is implied in THE SAME PA, as we lose cons and ppu. If ppu doesnt bother for you, then ask an hybrid if that's a fair penalization or not, and come back to say that -25 ppu is nothing.
You keep comparing oranges with potatoes.
Originally posted by Sleawer
You keep comparing oranges with potatoes.
well there both round looking:rolleyes:
{MD}GeistDamnit
11-09-03, 02:40
implement backbones and eyes, fix psu to as it was, give better +'s on all the pa's and add some better stuff to all the chip's.
that will fix monk problems. but then people will cry bloody muder when an apu pwns them :mad:
Originally posted by {MD}GeistDamnit
that will fix monk problems. but then people will cry bloody muder when an apu pwns them :mad:
Nothing new there then :p
Progenitor
11-09-03, 05:18
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Anyway, I want a psi backbone, it'd be nice, I'd also love shelter bones, with Psi as req's and such..
That is an awsome idea!
PSI Shelter and/or deflector bones along the lines of the Heavy Deflector Belt!
-p
i think its perfect how they got it setup ;/
ppl saying its not fair cuz they dont got DS's... so fuckin what theres people in the world that dont have cars, they still manage some how
QuantumDelta
11-09-03, 06:16
Err.... ya play a monk shujin.... at all? heh
Good discussion about the PA's here.
Not that anymore cares, my APU's current setup with imps is: Psi core, exp psi controller 2+3 and attack 3.
With this imp setup I can use PA 2. As I'm far from cap, only base PSI of 86, I can use Pa 1 without any imps.
Anyway, as I suggested in some thread, KK should implement psi backbone and perhaps and eye implant as well.
Just my unneeded 2cr
// Wannabe aka Frozen Light
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Err.... ya play a monk shujin.... at all? heh
i had a capped Apu named Val Halla i deleted a week ago to re roll it, and i got a Apu monk now but not tellin names no i dont have a DS either, but with hard work i could get one, its not that fuckin hard, ppl piss me off sayin it shouldnt b that high req so only ppl with ds's can wear them, well o well, work hard and u can get it
I didn't read the whole thread sorry.
But PSI PA, I am no where near capped and I can wear PA2. I occasionally have to drug myself to put it on, but once active it's boost keeps it on me. Based on my current stats I believe I won't have a problem with PA3 either when I do get to cap.
PA4 now is another story.
see i think its perfect how it is and basicly the only ppl taht want to change it is ppl who dont wanna fuckin work for it and level up high enough to use it..
PA4's reqs are adjusted to 130 on the test server and will most likely make it to retail (as KK said). You still need a rare drug for it though.
DS+Core+Mem3+Exp3+"the only 2 psi lvl drugs"=129
I have DS+Core+Def3+Def2 which gives me 111 PSI and I take the Paratemol or whatever it's called to get the PA3 on. I very rarely get a drug effect anyway and the PA3 fits me very well. Even better when the stats are going to be fixed with the next patch presumably (+frc +prc +3 ppu/apu).
Are we supposed to be able to get the PA4 on without rare drugs by the way?
QuantumDelta
11-09-03, 14:04
Originally posted by phunqe
I have DS+Core+Def3+Def2 which gives me 111 PSI and I take the Paratemol or whatever it's called to get the PA3 on.
Originally posted by Callash
PA3 is for Imp-donning capped characters
Ahem.... :p
Jesterthegreat
11-09-03, 14:09
Originally posted by Sleawer
Any other class has room to wear two combat chips of his election; where apu monks decide to use attack 2-3, ppu's go for defensive 2-3 or resistor, tanks for resistor + moveon and spies the same.
-snip-
- Tank: Marines + Hercules + Backbone3 Moveon + Resistor - 119 str - Wear PA3 without drugs.
move + resister are not combat (no more than psi mem etc) as they add no hc / melee
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
move + resister are not combat (no more than psi mem etc) as they add no hc / melee
Moveone added hc/trans a few other things the last time i checked
ericdraven
11-09-03, 14:12
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
move + resister are not combat (no more than psi mem etc) as they add no hc / melee
But that's what many tanks use as ideal setup 'cause they have enough H-C anyway.
A monk with a memory3 is far away from an ideal setup.
(and comparing a memory3 with a moveon/resistor is no good idea.. the memory gives nothing except +PSI whereas the other two chips give A LOT)
Jesterthegreat
11-09-03, 14:12
you are 100% right of couse lol... im not with it ^.^
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Ahem.... :p
Yes I know, just pointing out that the setup fits me ;)
:D
ok just add psi to attack chips(or defence chips)
sorted:p
edit: i say the chips cos there in ya brain enhancing your psi ability, but a back bone wouldnt help psi, you can understand str booster harden backbone or a more flexible backbone for reflex booster, but dont see how they could add to psi.
Doc Holliday
11-09-03, 14:25
i go with sleawar on this one. monks need an eye and a back bone really giving some kind of benefits. i mean all other classes get some kind of benefit of back bones/eyes except hc tanks. they could use a melee eye 3 to add wep lore although im not 100% certain it doesnt gimp your hc. if not its fine they got somethin too but i havent played a tank in months so. Never the less monks are so short on decent combat imps it would be nice to be able to tweak a little bit with our imp set ups rather than ok u need that that and that just to be reasonably effective. The problem arrises as i see it when u flip this issue over. currently the only other class to have pa viable in combat is a tank. THEY CANNOT use their pa3 with out alot of drugs and as far as im aware a herc also implanted. ( i may be wrong ) what would be done about those guys should KK make it viable for monks to use their pa 3. hmmmm thats the balancing act they have to face.
Oh yeah on a lighter note if we get alot more tanks wearing their pa3 and runnin round all shiny and gold what the fuck are we gonna refer to them as. we got smurfs ( the blue pa ) but ummm anyone else think of a good name :p
maybe we can start a poll.....................
Shujin re-read, I worked hard in my MC-5 chips as I have one in each one of my combat chars.
The system as it is now allow the classes to wear PA3 with MC-5/Rare/backbone... monks dont have backbone, so we lose another cerebral chip.
And Jester, besides moveon is a mini-marines, the fact is that Tanks can wear PA3 without moveon and resistor, and they can place in those slots the implants that they most like, and usually are moveon+resistor. Monks cant, or if we do, then we have to use a drug, which is not for what the PA3 was designed for.
*edit: with a backbone, you can replace the MC-5 chip and the core for another two non-rare chips... I am comparing with other classes' implant donning for fucks sake, not saying that monks must have a DS to wear it.
Original monk
11-09-03, 14:28
Why all this fuzz ? to nerf the monks again later ? no use in complaining, if they boost us or boost our chips or make us a bit stronger; then the pussy's start whining again and we get nerfed to dead anyway, yust like it has always been :/
and yeah dont talk like everybody has a mc5 chip, but when ya get killed later on by that one monk with that mc5 chip (that obviously gone stronger when ya boost their imps to get to the pa3 on a shorter notice) they start whinin again: OMG haxxxxxxxxxx oneone 111 NERF them monks oneone NERF NERF :/
(and yeah i have a ds and yeah im capped and yeah no problem with the imp setup atm, by this i mean i dont use any drugs to use that suit, exp.psi3-defense3-ds-psicore) i never got killed by anything force in my life :) so no prob fo me :)
Well, I started saying in the thread, that could be in Test Server Feedback. Imagine the req's in Test Server:
PA1: 85
PA2: 100
PA3: 115
PA4: 130
These are going to be the new req's of PA's in the next patch; this means that capped chars with optimal implant setups will be able to wear the PA.
I point that wont be fair for monks, as other chars have a backbone, and dont have to sacrifice another cerebral chip to wear this PA3. Specially when monks (and probably all classes), need those attack 2-3 chips to improve the damage.
I can't vote atm as i feel the thread is flawed.
ATM for my PPU i'm using PSI Core (+5), PSI Mem 3 (+5), Exp PSI Controller 3 (+5) and Exp PSI controller 2 (+3).
So i get +18 PSI, so I can use PA 3 when I'm high enuff and not need drugs. I still get a very good sub-skill bonus from the chips I use plus the PA bonuses from PA2.
ericdraven
11-09-03, 16:22
Originally posted by ]v[ortice
I can't vote atm as i feel the thread is flawed.
ATM for my PPU i'm using PSI Core (+5), PSI Mem 3 (+5), Exp PSI Controller 3 (+5) and Exp PSI controller 2 (+3).
So i get +18 PSI, so I can use PA 3 when I'm high enuff and not need drugs. I still get a very good sub-skill bonus from the chips I use plus the PA bonuses from PA2.
No offence, but this setup is rather shitty for a capped PPU. ;)
Originally posted by ericdraven
No offence, but this setup is rather shitty for a capped PPU. ;)
If he was capped he should be near or to PA3. I'm using those same imps and I get with PA2 on as well +22 PSI.
With drugs at cap you should be able to put on PA3
Well, I think we'll add 1/2/3 PSI to the attack/defense chips.
But... (oh yes, there's a but ;))
As the monk PA has no real downside beside the anti-hybrid -APU/PPU, we'll switch the -con to -agility (something like -8/12/16/20).
ericdraven
11-09-03, 16:32
Originally posted by Thanatos
Well, I think we'll add 1/2/3 PSI to the attack/defense chips.
But... (oh yes, there's a but ;))
As the monk PA has no real downside beside the anti-hybrid -APU/PPU, we'll switch the -con to -agility (something like -8/12/16/20).
But.. but.. then the tanks won't have anything to whine about!! ("our PA takes away ATL, just look at teh üüüüber monk pa!!!!1111")
:p :lol:
That's fair to me... each constitution point means 1 point in body health, and monks have plenty of agility; many times have been said that monks shouldnt be able to spec their dex skill so easy.
I wait to see what the rest of the community thinks however...
But Thanatos, as the tank PA doesnt have negatives to melee combat.. perhaps the monk PA should not have negatives to the oppossite skill apu/ppu. That's up to your reasoning, but hybrids already have a 30% penalization (47% have been said) for specing the oppossite subskill.
As a side note, thank you very much to contribute to this thread with your opinion, I really appreciate it.
Originally posted by Sleawer
But Thanatos, as the tank PA doesnt have negatives to melee combat.. perhaps the monk PA should not have negatives to the oppossite skill apu/ppu. That's up to your reasoning, but hybrids already have a 30% penalization (47% have been said) for specing the oppossite subskill.
the heavy tank doesnt have it cos no melee tank will use it becuse of the negative to there run speed.
where as the melee PA does have a -to heavy combat
Originally posted by ezza
the heavy tank doesnt have it cos no melee tank will use it becuse of the negative to there run speed.
where as the melee PA does have a -to heavy combat
What he said... besides, when was the last time you got killed by a melee tank ;)
Originally posted by hinch
im still hybrid remember :) i dont wear pa
hear hear! :D
i only wear the PA when im AFK in plaza or in 'special' situations.
sitting there switching between APU PA 2 and PPU PA 2 really amuses me, i feel like im breaking some rule... :lol:
add them god damn spines and eyes i know you've got hidden in OZ7.
Originally posted by Ezza
the heavy tank doesnt have it cos no melee tank will use it becuse of the negative to there run speed.
where as the melee PA does have a -to heavy combat
Originally posted by Thanatos
2. Tank PAs. Why on earth would we add a - to MC on the HC PA? Might as well remove the negative effect... The reason why the MC PA doesn't have -ATL is that no melee would ever wear it. Now - HC might have been a bad move, so we'll find something else.
OMG Thanatos? it's you saying this (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72364&perpage=6&postid=876582)? :p
Besides this, the damage on melee and its versatility hopefully will be fixed thanks to your work and the help of Lupus in Test Server. I have faith on you at least.
I dont think that removing the negatives to apu/ppu and find something else would make hybrids overpowered again, but that's all about testing.
I hope the people dont hate me much for all this changes now :p
it wouldnt over power them but it would make them a lot more dangerous.
though not sure how hybrids are now, my ugh kinda clan has a hybrid, but not dueled him yet, so cant really say how hybrids are atm
While they are not more dangerous than any other class inside its own possibilities, it will be ok. Anyway I see and understand your point about hybrids, and that comment was a side note off topic.
The two hybrids that have given their opinion here probably can start another thread regarding this subject, and discuss deeply about it.
Also I want to apologize with Thanatos :p for quoting him (I hate to be quoted) and for not saying thanks.
Thanks a load for listening about the PA and the implant problems Thanatos & dev team; obviously you listen to the community and act in consequence.
Now I know that our threads do not dissapear in the oblivion, but are read and evaluated carefully.
Thank you.
Originally posted by ezza
though not sure how hybrids are now, my ugh kinda clan has a hybrid, but not dueled him yet, so cant really say how hybrids are atm
hybrids cant move while in PvP. when i say move, i mean being NUDGED. a push from a pulse pistol is enough to make a spell fail in PvP. believe me, i've tested it.
with a heavily biased APU, you might get away with it.
EDIT: OT, sorry
Originally posted by Sleawer
The two hybrids that have given their opinion here probably can start another thread regarding this subject, and discuss deeply about it.
we did do, and got flamed to fuck. I have contacted lupus, but he said he 'forgot to reply'. so if your reading this Lupus, REPLY! :D
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 20:29
Originally posted by Thanatos
As the monk PA has no real downside beside the anti-hybrid -APU/PPU, we'll switch the -con to -agility (something like -8/12/16/20).
Damn that's not fair at all. -16?
*sigh*
We can't super overspec our agility due to 5 million dexterity like tanks. And we NEED all the speed we can get. Btw apus can't cast agility boost 555555 like ppus can. *sigh*
And I have to lom out VHC use, you know because of the silly GR changes and the fact that KK wants us to use vehicles.
Now I wish I didn't need PA to get a "decent" mana pool. *sigh*
Originally posted by Jesterthegreat
move + resister are not combat (no more than psi mem etc) as they add no hc / melee
OMG!!!!!!! Why talk about tank imp setup?!?!?
If i could put ALL my point into APU like a tank can put in HC then I wouldnt bother but that is rediculus.... Hey gimp you pool for dmg or your dmg for pool whats your choise? Or just make MST increase the pool then I´m happy :D
I dont gain anything more loose a good setup to use PA3 then PA2 so..... plz stfu :p
QuantumDelta
11-09-03, 20:39
If PSI PA is going to reduce any speed adding stat it should be in DEX, they're (especially APUs) taxed in CON enough as it is >.>
Maybe Monks should be renamed "Dependants."
Dependant on Para.
Dependant on their counterpart school.
Dependant on PSI Boosters.
Dependant on Bad imps.
heh.
People bitch about Tank Imps, they should really have a look at monk imps :p
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 20:42
And the thing is, if it was a choice to wear pa or not then I could live with it. But i'm sorry, apu mana is garbage right now. Without pa I would have significantly less mana. Like 274 or so. Maybe a bit more. I can sacrifice less damage by not wearing PA, but less damage AND horrid mana pool?
I really wish PSI use gave mana. bleh.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
And the thing is, if it was a choice to wear pa or not then I could live with it. But i'm sorry, apu mana is garbage right now. Without pa I would have significantly less mana. Like 274 or so. Maybe a bit more. I can sacrifice less damage by not wearing PA, but less damage AND horrid mana pool?
I really wish PSI use gave mana. bleh.
i had exactly 274 with PA2 at 98 psi now i have lommed 3 apu and plan to use PA3 and i now have something like 294
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 20:49
Originally posted by OpTi
i had exactly 274 with PA2 at 98 psi now i have lommed 3 apu and plan to use PA3 and i now have something like 294
With xp controller(gimpage :p) and lomming some apu points, i have 330 mana now.
It may not seem like much more, but trust me it's a world of difference especially when fighting and takign down ppus.
:)
yep i'm using xp cont 3 too, i just need those last 2 lvls and i'm set except for heavy belts
630% on HL and 383 pool :D
RAWR... :angel:
but yeah no more minus con; that hurts; the minus agil might sting but eh... -16 sounds a bit high considering that we dont have the ath to make up for it (low con already)... but thats all to testing..
and yes give +1/3/5 to attack/def chips is the way to go!
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 21:23
Originally posted by mdares
630% on HL and 383 pool :D
You have DS. :p
hehehe and with the new DS/core changes, it will be +8 ppw; which is gonna be 635%-640% HL and 410 pool ^_^... then imagine with crahn epic... thats like....RAWR...
*hey i know it wont come anytime soon but i can dream :D *
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 21:53
Damn i wish the glove came out already, that would really help out apus.
O_O
Minic, to get 630% HL and 380 mana you need exp psi3 instead attack 1... I thought in doing, but after seeing the difference between piercing weapons damage with and without exp psi3, I decided to not wear it.
The last setup, without exp psi3, and the new test server changes, allows me to have 416 mana and 640% HL exactly. But anyway that's not an issue, it requires DS, Psi core, and PA3... and in my opinion monks shouldnt need those chips as a req to have good mana pool.
The bonus is in 104+ ppw btw.
yhea i knwo; i mean on retail tho; but like u said if the new changes hit retail i can say bubye to stupid exp 3 cuz i really hate it...
but u still have a point; when monks, especially apu, need to gimp major to get to PA 3... its just .... not fair.. or need uber imps to get a high mana pool... (how would other classses like it if they had to limit the ammount of ammo they carry to have "high" dmg?)
Progenitor
11-09-03, 22:08
Originally posted by Thanatos
Well, I think we'll add 1/2/3 PSI to the attack/defense chips.
But... (oh yes, there's a but ;))
As the monk PA has no real downside beside the anti-hybrid -APU/PPU, we'll switch the -con to -agility (something like -8/12/16/20).
The neagtive con was a downside - those -16ish hlt points that I lost were missed.
The Agility might hurt, as I have speced to drive all of the vehicles, but I can always lom out to just the hovertech or there goes the recycling.
Adding the + 1/3/5 to the attack/defense chips is a good start - people without a DS will still need a exp3 or mem3 to reach the PA4, plus all of the drugs.
Destrosol +3 PSI
Destrosol Forte +5 PSI
k' Mushroom +5 PSI
Core +5
Att 3 +5
Att 2 +3
( Wild card Att 1, exp con #, mem #, resistor chip, moveon, etc. )
PA 3 (PSI 115): At cap, 100 +13 from base implants, +3 from Destrosol would give 116, enough to wear PA3 and keep it on when the Destrosol wears off.
PA 4 (PSI 130?): At cap, 100 +13 from base implants, +13 from all the available drugs, would give 126, not enough to wear PA4. Add a exp con 3 or mem 3 +5 and that would give 131, enough to wear PA4. If PA4 still gives +8 PSI, you would only need one drug to constantly wear it, until you GR'd or died. You would have to time the Destrosol Forte and k' Mushroom, takeing one half way through the others duration, so when one wore off the other would still be active allowing you to continue wearing the PA.
I'd hate to see what would happen though when you ran out of drugs or forgot to have one going.
The drug flash would be terribly ugly! BUT, it would be doable, maybe for a quick duel?, maybe for an op fight?
-p
Well, to be completely honest, I dont like the idea of losing agility, but as eric said, many tanks complain about it, and the thread is about making things fair, isnt it?
So let's analyze it:
Tank PA
- Retail: negative to athletics (cons subskill) and dexterity
- Test Server: negative to athletics (cons subskill) and constitution main skill.
So in retail the PA has a penalization in a subskill of constitution, which is the secondary skill on tanks, and dexterity, which is their third skill.
And in Test Server both negatives are in constitution, their secondary skill.
Monk PA
- Retail: negative to apu/ppu (psi subskill), and to constitution main skill
- Test Server: negative to apu/ppu (psi subskill), and to constitution main skill. Exactly the same.
Therefore, the Monk PA has a penalization in a subskill of PSI, which is the primary skill of monks, and constitution, which is the third skill on monks.
List of skills (I assume Test Server as the definitive negatives)
Tank:
1- Strenght
2- Constitution - PA negatives
3- Dexterity
4- Intelligence
5- PSI
Monk:
1- PSI - PA negative
2- Intelligence
3- Constitution - PA negative
4- Dexterity - the suggested PA negative instead cons.
5- Strenght
To make things equal, we should have negatives in intelligence main skill and one of its subskills. But would that be fair?
There is no other subskill besides psi use that a monk uses under intelligence.. so taking away INT main skill points would be fair, but what subskill do you take under intelligence?
What I dont see correct, is taking away two subskills, while the norm of the PA is a penalization in a main skill, and a subskill. That is why I suggested, with the new change of negatives to agility, to take away the minuses to apu/ppu, and add negatives to a main skill. Which one? Intelligence? is a pain I know, hate me, but blame KK for the very slow exp gain rate of int... the infamous 33%.
My whole post is a mess, but I hope you see the point that I am trying to show. Making things equal for all classes, doesnt mean making things fair.
What do you all think about this?
QuantumDelta
11-09-03, 22:35
I'm in agreement with Sleawer here, he's made that post brilliantly :p
Thank you QD, I hope everyone see the point... and I really hope that people gives their opinion.
This is making KK job easier, if they know our opinion before change anything.
omg Sleawer nice job there :D
Btw the int exp is at low 12% *combat* 33% *tradeskilling*
"how many tradeskilling APU:s are there?"
Make INT do at least 33% on combat :D
Progenitor
11-09-03, 23:01
Originally posted by Sleawer
...
There is no other subskill besides psi use that a monk uses under intelligence.. so taking away INT main skill points would be fair, but what subskill do you take under intelligence?
...
Ooch! And I thought the hit to CON was harsh!
Say you've managed to cap INT (go ahead, laugh, but try to imagine it anyway), now the negative for the different PAs INT would be like - 2/4/6/8 ?
Granted the core adds +5 and since there is no PSI based eye, the smarteye adds +1, so that could make up for PA3 losses, but that would pretty much illiminate the ability to use the poison (99) and energy (98) for all but the INT99, 100 monks. PA4, unless you have a DS, you aren't going to be able to use them at all, unless you drug up to do it. Of course the drugs you would use to get your PSI up, give INT as well as PSI, so I guess that wouldn't be a problem. Go figure - that one actually balances out. But it still doesn't make much sense to give some defense ability and then take other defense ability away. The goal is to INCREASE overall defense ability.
Granted, a good portion of the Monks out there might never see those belts anyway, as INT gain is so hard to obtain, but as I am nearing base 96 (i need less than 900k), I would miss them, and a bit impartial.
As far as INT subskills go, a lot of monks have some HCK or IMP. Not a lot of other use for the others, as we can't spare the psu. And pure PvP monks spec all PSU
So as long as it wasn't HCK or IMP, it wouldn't hurt the majority of monks, but then would it be fair?
---
It really depends on what KK intended the PA to accomplish. If it is to provide added protection and a boost to attack abilities, what are the logical side affects?
For Tanks, the loss of mobility kinda made sence - all that bulky armor impares you. For Monks? The loss of CON made us weaker on the battelfield. Maybe loss of mobilty would apply to us as well - those robes get tangled when we try to run to fast?
I'd rather see the loss of mobility that I could sacrifice recycle and driving for than loss of CON or INT. But I dpn't know for sure if that balances everything out.
-p
Yes, I already have that info over my table. That's why I said hate me, but blame KK for the 33% INT exp gain (11% for the use of PSI habilities)
Monks intelligence max at 100; if capping it was a bit easier... let's say more fair to stay in the line of the thread, perhaps we would see it from a different point of view.
Anyway you have got the point of the post... to evaluate what would be fair for those PA negatives.
About the negative subskill: Implant? hack? You know the answer, it's not a necessary attribute in monks, where as ATL is for tanks.
Keep giving opinions, it's all for that.
Originally posted by Sleawer
The Problem
Then, assuming that PA3 will have 115 main skill req
- Tank: Hercules/Marines/Backbone3 + capped ---> 116 str
- Spy: SA/Special Forces/Reflexbooster4 ---> 115 dex
- Monk: DS/Psi Core/...? ---> 111 psi
er Monk: ds/psi core/exp psi controller 3/psi mem 3 = +20 :) thus
capped monk + above = 120 :)
without a DS you can get to 118 just change the ds for an exp psi contoller 2 or psi mem 2 :)
thus in both cases = monk pa 3
Thanks for not reading the thread. I would like to repeat myself again, but it is already posted.
I know, reading 7 pages can be a pain, but maybe you are misunderstanding me... I know what implants monks have, and that's why I know where the problem is.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Thanks for not reading the thread. I would like to repeat myself again, but it is already posted.
I know, reading 7 pages can be a pain, but maybe you are misunderstanding me... I know what implants monks have, and that's why I know where the problem is.
I read the thread thx and i don't see a problem :)
force resist helps but it ain't gonna save u from a speed gun lol
spies have the motoric range of chips monk the memory, tanks have the strength boosters
all giving basic +1 +3 or +5 to there respective skills
and although exp psi chip nerf force resist I know a monk who does quite well with an exp psi 3 in and still have 50ish force resist :)
so monks can easily were pa 3 but not without thinking about there setups
also i do agree eyes and backbone made specifically for the monk would be nice :)
I doubt you have read the thread.
As has been said in this same thread, you cannot mix cerebral chips with backbones or eyes.
Here I have done some fair comparisons that you obviously didnt bother to read... anyway I dont have the will to repeat myself in the same subject, as Thanathos already gave a response (thx Thanathos), and the mayority of the community saw my point of view, and shared it.
I cannot force you to see it, if you are a monk, you will benefit of it, if you arent, then that explains your arguments in the thread.
Originally posted by Shakari
so monks can easily were pa 3 but not without thinking about there setups
Precisely is about this the thread.. I have been thinking in setups for my monk, during more time than you can imagine, and also had the chance to compare them with my other 7 chars, which of course are of the 4 different classes.
After that, and without speaking out of my arse, I posted here what I thought was a fair comparison between the different implant setups in the classes... that all what you have ornited.
So re-read if you need it.
*About resists, being totally off topic here, force will save me, and certainly it helped me a lot with piercing weapons. Not everyone has deflectors... let me design my resists please.
The thing is not about if monks can wear PA3 w/o drugs...
Its that they need to gimp their whole imp setup just to wear it = PA2 > PA3 so why is that?
And how many APU:s has DS? :lol: the death class nr 1
hey can you repoke me doh only tl 84.....
ericdraven
12-09-03, 10:37
Originally posted by t0tt3
omg Sleawer nice job there :D
Btw the int exp is at low 12% *combat* 33% *tradeskilling*
"how many tradeskilling APU:s are there?"
Make INT do at least 33% on combat :D
*waves*
I had enough of KK making fun of the monks INT and LOMed to RES. Now, one month later, i am almost at INT 99. If KK thinks they can make fun of the monks then i make fun of KK - and cap INT with a TRADESKILL, that's exactly what KK does NOT want. But sorry, one more week and i have capped INT - and more than 50% of the XP came from a tradeskill. :lol:
Back on topic - taking INT from a monk would be fair *IF* monks actually could cap INT in a reasonable time and WITHOUT tradeskilling. But like it is at the moment - it would be definitely NOT fair. o_O
Exactly, there are some issues that need to be addressed besides this implant problem, and I hope KK starts to do some job on them.
Btw eric, how much research did you need to gain decent exp from it?
ericdraven
12-09-03, 15:08
Originally posted by Sleawer
Btw eric, how much research did you need to gain decent exp from it?
RES 186.
However, look at the testserver, a (little) miracle will happen -> they increase the monks INT gain! :)
Originally posted by Sleawer
I doubt you have read the thread.
As has been said in this same thread, you cannot mix cerebral chips with backbones or eyes.
Here I have done some fair comparisons that you obviously didnt bother to read... anyway I dont have the will to repeat myself in the same subject, as Thanathos already gave a response (thx Thanathos), and the mayority of the community saw my point of view, and shared it.
I cannot force you to see it, if you are a monk, you will benefit of it, if you arent, then that explains your arguments in the thread.
Precisely is about this the thread.. I have been thinking in setups for my monk, during more time than you can imagine, and also had the chance to compare them with my other 7 chars, which of course are of the 4 different classes.
After that, and without speaking out of my arse, I posted here what I thought was a fair comparison between the different implant setups in the classes... that all what you have ornited.
So re-read if you need it.
*About resists, being totally off topic here, force will save me, and certainly it helped me a lot with piercing weapons. Not everyone has deflectors... let me design my resists please.
YEAH I HAVE READ THE "WHOLE" THREAD o_O
there is no need for implied insults I am not talking out of my arse, and I only read your starting post and commented on that not any other posts, surely i can comment on one post and not all of them?
and have stated what i think, and yes i have 3 monks 1 pe 3 tanks and 3 spys so yeah i know what i am talking about
and sure design your resists as u like, also 2 of my monks are pure apu one with force resist 1 without due to an exp psi 3 and i don't notice a major difference unless i have large amounts and that totally gimps health or atl :)
I am for other imps for monks tho as i said :) so i am not arguing against that just saying that a lot can be done with the present ones which make monks as good as the other char setups imo :)
and as has been said adding +1+3+5 o attack/def imps will be good not so good with the minus for the monk pa tho
Shadow Dancer
12-09-03, 20:24
Originally posted by Shakari
er Monk: ds/psi core/exp psi controller 3/psi mem 3 = +20 :) thus
capped monk + above = 120 :)
without a DS you can get to 118 just change the ds for an exp psi contoller 2 or psi mem 2 :)
thus in both cases = monk pa 3
Without DS you have to drug up to use pA3. You COULD use Psi core, xp 3, xp 2, and attack chip 3. But since you're not using attack chip 2 and 1,(or defensive, whatever) you lose out on 15 apu/ppu. And the pa3 atm gives 13 apu/ppu. Sooooooooo.........you actually "gain" lots of bad force resist and a loss of 2 apu/ppu. Yes it's very viable as you say. *sarcasm*
:p
QuantumDelta
12-09-03, 21:06
Shakari isn't really in a PvP Clan though... pushing the envolope is something only really the top lot do...measuring things point for point like you have seemed to do in recent history Sleawer isn't something ...maybe 80% of the population of this game does.
Those that do, are, also, normally, those that excell, those that excell in FPS / Strategic / Tactical games as well, come out on top of the lot...
What I mean to say, is Shakari isn't really wrong.
However, he's not really right either...
No PvP Monk would ever _want_ to use EXP Controllers..
But uhh, heh...
I think this discussion just became moot. Thread on TP 213 says that APU/PPU chips now give +1, 2, and 3 Psi.
QuantumDelta
12-09-03, 21:20
I suppose so, since now, PSI Core + PPU 3 + PPU 2 + Drug = PA 3 + PA3 Stays on with a slot free to do with as you like.
However, most people will argue that's only the first step, there is still (as always has been) the lack of;
HC Eye.
PSI Eye.
PSI BackBone.
And Yes, I'm working KK to the bone... :p but they're doing a good job...
yeah new TS patch = no more gimpage in frc to get PA3 :D
DS + CORE + Attack2 + Attack3 = +35 APU, +28 PPW, + 20 PSU... RAWR
(fyi i have NO transport... all in frc... so i can use exp3 a little...)
Shadow Dancer
12-09-03, 21:26
lolorz. If DS didn't lose so much damn quality, I would work to get another one.
Oh well.
QuantumDelta
12-09-03, 21:29
"Can I get a frickin rezz over here...!"
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Without DS you have to drug up to use pA3. You COULD use Psi core, xp 3, xp 2, and attack chip 3. But since you're not using attack chip 2 and 1,(or defensive, whatever) you lose out on 15 apu/ppu. And the pa3 atm gives 13 apu/ppu. Sooooooooo.........you actually "gain" lots of bad force resist and a loss of 2 apu/ppu. Yes it's very viable as you say. *sarcasm*
:p
actually i find using a exp psi 3 quite viable thanks..... I am using psi core/exp3/attack3/attack 2 atm and find it fine :)
and i gain some resists :) and ther other psi bonus's :) and i think the psi use u get compensates for the loss of 2 appu/ppu :)
but of course your opinion overrules my preference **sarcasm**
and with psi core exp 3 mem 3 u can use pa 3 capped :)
so no u don't need drugs, but do need to accept a loss of force resist just because u choose not to use exp chip don't mean every one does
No QD, she is not right.
That is only valid if you have a DS, if you dont, then PA3 is not worth the time to use.
DS+Core+Exp3+Attack3 could worth the try, if you want to be a gimp in piercing/force. And still, you lose one more cerebral chip compared with other classes, due the lack of backbone.
Core+Exp3+Memory3+attack3 is not worth the time to try, because attack2 gives much more bonuses combined with PA2, than PA3.
So basically, if you have a Dimension Splitter, you have the option to wear exp3, which to me is not a fair option compared to other classes.
But if you dont have DS, like the mayority of the people in the game, PA3 doesnt become an option.
Either that, or drug up to wear it, but that is not the actual design of PA3.
Giving those bonuses in attack/defence 1-2-3 is a good step from KK.
So Shakari, instead posting all those useless smiles, you could think a bit more outside YOUR own necessities, or YOUR own playstyle, to have some understanding with the rest of the people which play the game of a different form, or at least to accept a bit more balance between the classes.
I havent asked for anything that other classes dont have, so my suggestion is fair, which you between smile and smile deny as if I were completely wrong, or a total ignorant.
Originally posted by Shakari
and with psi core exp 3 mem 3 u can use pa 3 capped
so no u don't need drugs, but do need to accept a loss of force resist just because u choose not to use exp chip don't mean every one does
If you do, then you will lose all the bonuses of the PA3, due removing your attack2.
PA2+attack3+attack2+exp3 = +35 apu + core = +40 apu (with patch +43 apu)
PA3+attack3+memory3+exp3= +28 apu + core = +33 apu (with patch +36 apu)
That's all your argument. And that is mine aswell.
exactly; for pvp type chars, skill point economics is VERY important... saving that extra 5-10 skill points can be a boon.
And what is more important, the PA3 has to be usefull compared to PA2, not a simple decoration toy.
Shadow Dancer
12-09-03, 23:47
Originally posted by Shakari
actually i find using a exp psi 3 quite viable thanks..... I am using psi core/exp3/attack3/attack 2 atm and find it fine :)
Where in my post did I say exp 3 wasn't viable? Where?
Originally posted by Shakari
and i think the psi use u get compensates for the loss of 2 appu/ppu :)
Uhh no it doesn't.
Originally posted by Shakari
and with psi core exp 3 mem 3 u can use pa 3 capped :)
Yes but you gain nothing and lose 2 apu/ppu as opposed to gaining an actual bonus when using PA2. What's so hard to understand, or are you trolling?
Originally posted by Shakari
so no u don't need drugs, but do need to accept a loss of force resist just because u choose not to use exp chip don't mean every one does
R E A D my posts thoroughly please.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:rolleyes:
QuantumDelta
12-09-03, 23:48
Difference between reading, and understanding, I think you guys have made your point a little more clearly now, especially sleawer, I, unfortunatly, took it for granted, that everyone would understand his comment which is pretty unarguably, the best one.
Originally posted by Sleawer
No QD, she is not right.
That is only valid if you have a DS, if you dont, then PA3 is not worth the time to use.
DS+Core+Exp3+Attack3 could worth the try, if you want to be a gimp in piercing/force. And still, you lose one more cerebral chip compared with other classes, due the lack of backbone.
Core+Exp3+Memory3+attack3 is not worth the time to try, because attack2 gives much more bonuses combined with PA2, than PA3.
So basically, if you have a Dimension Splitter, you have the option to wear exp3, which to me is not a fair option compared to other classes.
But if you dont have DS, like the mayority of the people in the game, PA3 doesnt become an option.
Either that, or drug up to wear it, but that is not the actual design of PA3.
Giving those bonuses in attack/defence 1-2-3 is a good step from KK.
So Shakari, instead posting all those useless smiles, you could think a bit more outside YOUR own necessities, or YOUR own playstyle, to have some understanding with the rest of the people which play the game of a different form, or at least to accept a bit more balance between the classes.
I havent asked for anything that other classes dont have, so my suggestion is fair, which you between smile and smile deny as if I were completely wrong, or a total ignorant.
well i am not ignorant and if u actually read what i posted said I agree witht he idea for either backbones and/or adding psi to the attack/def chips
but i hace said that i don't think the exsisting chips are as bad as ur making out with pa3 sure u lose like 2apu/ppu but u gain psi use and ppw which more than compensates imo
and what wrongs with emotes lol so i use a few better than NONE :)
would like to see more imps for monks tho :) eye and backbones :)
Originally posted by Sleawer
If you do, then you will lose all the bonuses of the PA3, due removing your attack2.
PA2+attack3+attack2+exp3 = +35 apu + core = +40 apu (with patch +43 apu)
PA3+attack3+memory3+exp3= +28 apu + core = +33 apu (with patch +36 apu)
That's all your argument. And that is mine aswell.
Hallelujah I see the light or Sleawer's point :D :D :D < not smilies this time :rolleyes:
I dont put implants bad or good, I put the things like really are... and if you see my point now, I really wonder what I have written different than the first post. Serious.
I just have repeated myself over and over.
Shadow Dancer
13-09-03, 04:12
HI SLEWER :) I think the imps are great :) I think there's nothing wrong at the moment :)
How's life? :) I'm fine. :)
Erm, ok.. could a moderator move all this thread to Test Server Feedback, before it turns into spam-fest?
I would say close it, but as the discussion belongs to test server, and the changes are not either in retail or test server, maybe someone can add something interesting to the discussion.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.