Replace Holy Paralysis with something purely defensive and for escape. Ideas below! [Archive]

Shadow Dancer

10-09-03, 01:40

HAI. IMO holy paralysis is as much a defensive spell as Holy Lightning. Holy paralysis WILL get you killed in a fight unless you anti-shock. Now it's been said time and time again that Holy Paralysis is for defense, supposedly for when the ppu is alone and needs to escape or avoid being attacked. Well we all know that 99% of the time Holy Paralysis the first thing an enemy ppu casts on the enemy. It's used most often NOT for defense or escape, but for offense and to help kill the enemy by making them a turret. As we all know it can be spammed too, and from person experience I can tell you that when it's spammed drugs become quite useless. IMO ppus don't even need holy para for defense, but whatever, as a courtesy I think it should be replaced with something that is actually defensive and will allow escape. As a matter of fact I think the ideas I post will be BETTER for escape/defense than Holy Paralysis, and it won't be lame and cheap like HP IMO at least. A spell doesn't need to deal damage to be offensive. Look at Holy Antibuff.

Here they are.

Ideas

#1.HOLY Cloak. Replace Holy Paralysis(and all para spells, but I don't really need to say that do I?) with Holy Cloak. To avoid it being overpowered, it would last for 30 seconds and the ppu will not be able to decloak using drugs. During this time the ppu can walk about invisible but cannot effect his teammates or the enemy. It's for 30 seconds so that he can't just cloak and uncloak during battle. It will be for escape, if he decides to stay near the battle, he will leave his teammates without aid for 30 seconds, which trust me is a big deal. OBVIOUSLY MANA COST AND ROF WILL BALANCE THIS SPELL.

#2.SACRED shelter. This spell would remove all buffs and sanctums from the PPU, and would give them 99% resistance to all forms of damage and cannot be debuffed. Additionally they cannot use or activate any spells or weapons. The difference between this and cloak is that they can still be seen and followed and can't spy in secret. OBVIOUSLY MANA COST AND ROF WILL BALANCE THIS SPELL.

#3.ETHEREAL Aura. This spell is ironic, as it is the exact opposite of Holy Paralysis. This spell will quadruple runspeed(not increase ath/ag). It will cost significant mana to run while this spell is on, but you can run away at light speed. Well not LIGHT, but you get the point. And this spell would also look cool. :p OBVIOUSLY MANA COST AND ROF WILL BALANCE THIS SPELL.

Alternatively you can add one of these spells(or line of spells, to match the line of parashock) and make para spells PvM only.

IMO parashock is the single biggest reason alot of people hate ppus, and don't think they should be "unkillable". Also these spells wouldn't overpower the PPU IMO, because they can't be used DURING a battle. See? And their better for escape than HP is IMO. Then because the ppu will truely be passive(well maybe except for damage boost :p), they will be totally justified in having 1337 defense.

What do ya'll think?

Helen Angilley

10-09-03, 01:44

"Ego of VetteroX"

Blows back all attackers by three-hundred metres. Also causes the target to start jabbering away in illiterate gibberish.

Shadow Dancer

10-09-03, 01:45

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
"Ego of VetteroX"

Blows back all attackers by three-hundred metres. Also causes the target to start jabbering away in illiterate gibberish.

rofl

:p

hnlecter

10-09-03, 01:46

The cloak is the WORST IDEA EVER. God damn people want monks to be the fucking all class class, IT ISN'T MENT SO. The only thing that monks can't do ubar and still cast in a second is construction. What is next holy build 3 slots?? Just remove all the other characters and have everyone be monks. I mean the cloak is the ONLY thing that keeps spys alive since they don't have elite shields and heal +anti anything.

But I would like to see holy "don't move" gone they don't need anything else. But sometimes there are some people who just move at mind boggling speeds and the only way to hit them is paralysing them. I don't see why people complain about them so much. Yes, I do think monks are a little overpowered. And yes I have played a ppu monk with a crapload of people attacking me because it is fun.

SypH

10-09-03, 01:46

I want Helens suggestion! Although it should affect the entire zone and only one person can have it and nobody else, as its stats add +35 to selfish (omg nerf!!) along with the +trillion ego boost.

Shadow Dancer

10-09-03, 01:59

Originally posted by hnlecter
The cloak is the WORST IDEA EVER. God damn people want monks to be the fucking all class class, IT ISN'T MENT SO. The only thing that monks can't do ubar and still cast in a second is construction. What is next holy build 3 slots?? Just remove all the other characters and have everyone be monks. I mean the cloak is the ONLY thing that keeps spys alive since they don't have elite shields and heal +anti anything.

That's why I gave different choices. Relax dude, lol. I knew spies would get in a hissy fit. *sigh*

It's better than Holy Spam-a-thon. Btw I didn't vote for the cloak idea, i voted for the aura. I do think cloak should be spy only(spy not pe too). But at the same time, parashock is a major balance issue.

Originally posted by hnlecter

But I would like to see holy "don't move" gone they don't need anything else. But sometimes there are some people who just move at mind boggling speeds and the only way to hit them is paralysing them.

lol no one moves so fast that you can't hit them without holy para. Besides if you hit them with holy para, that means you hit them when they were moving that fast. That's like me asking for a "pierce resist spell" to turn someone's resist to 0, because some people have too much resist.

Originally posted by hnlecter
I don't see why people complain about them so much.

maybe it's because you can stealth away? I don't want to sound like a jerk, but maybe it's also because you are a spy? You're not exactly the prime target. In op wars I'M the prime target because I'm apu. One op war aobut 4 days ago the enemy had 3 ppus. 2 focused on their team, and one was focused solely on me. I swear this is not an exaggeration. He spammed me the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME, I popped 7 drugs, but it was all useless because he just kept spamming me. Due to speed reduction of that magnitude, and reduced mouse sensitivity, I was next to useless in an op war from teh very beginning. If people don't see anything wrong with that, then god help us all. Holy Para isn't even a "passive" spell.

Originally posted by hnlecter
Yes, I do think monks are a little overpowered.

I don't think PPus are overpowered, I think their imbalanced.

Psychoninja

10-09-03, 02:05

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
"Ego of VetteroX"

Blows back all attackers by three-hundred metres. Also causes the target to start jabbering away in illiterate gibberish.

LMFAO

:lol:

Oh man, that one was just too good ;)

Anyways, cloak would make me happy.
btw shad how many of these or similar topics have you made?

:p

Shadow Dancer

10-09-03, 02:10

Originally posted by Psychoninja

Anyways, cloak would make me happy.
btw shad how many of these or similar topics have you made?

:p

Do a search, you'll see it's not that many. Probably like 3 total.

Heavyporker

10-09-03, 03:32

Why not a "Holy Prism" spell... casting it makes 4 or 5 copies of your image, all copying your movements as you go around for like 40 seconds. Perfect for confusing your attackers.

Ryuben

10-09-03, 03:46

u know what i love, was out hunting WB's and i noticed a group of 3 people 1 ppu 2 pe's/spys o_O one of the 2

all 3 high lvls, so i think fuck im dead so i ghost them for a while then notice the PPU hacks so i wait for him to hack a WB then other 2 have taken down he runs the 400m to go hack i come up behind and bang bang bang the other 2 guys :D im stood over 2 dead bodies, i think cool go me i re heal ( they didn't take much off as they was un buffed :D ) so i stand there with 4/5 hp and the ppu comes up i think -_- heh he wait till i go away then rez which i think is cool, but no he hits me with dmg boost + holy para i pop drugs (which did fuck all) and start shooting him, he casts soul cluster, then starts useing a spell that when cast leaves a blue ring around me and well i was takeing 13's off him and with his HH :( he nailed me faster then a 50p dead drom :(

which to me is jsut takeing the piss really.

so i think PPU's are fine but jsut shouldn't be able to atack at all.

i don't mind the fact that i can't kill him as long as he can't fucking kill me !

MayhemMike

10-09-03, 04:09

Shadow , Gary thinks. ..\
http://lz5.com/dpb/whocares.jpg

Ryuben

10-09-03, 05:01

Originally posted by MayhemMike
Shadow , Gary thinks. ..\

wow mike so help full as usual :rolleyes:

Mankind

10-09-03, 06:32

Originally posted by MayhemMike
Shadow , Gary thinks. ..\
http://lz5.com/dpb/whocares.jpg

rofl, gary coleman :)

I voted keep holy paralysis the way it is. Btw, it's ALREADY BEEN NERFED somewhat. These HP posts are getting annoying, especially when they have been posted like 5 times a day by the same people.

Breschau

10-09-03, 08:46

Agree with replacing HP with something more defensive. And I vote for Holy Run Away (ethereal aura) as it would amuse me the most to watch :)

KidWithStick

10-09-03, 09:02

i got a PPU who can use one.

id prefer the cloaker spell over the para...because for one i think that the HP is gay, ruins PvP...its just like pocket blizzards....remember when all the tanks had em, runnin around zapping everyone so they ran as slow as if you were HL'ed, then the fun was all gone.

whenever im at an OP fight or anytype of fight, first thing that happens....even before i get attacked by someone who is suppose to be able to attack, i get para'd. by i basically might as well stand still...no point in moving. then i get damage boosted and the fight is over.

get rid of the fucking spell for all i care.

deac

10-09-03, 09:19

hell no!! i like my holy para ....

and judging by the poll most ppl do

SigmaDraconis

10-09-03, 09:24

Nerf HP
Nerf HL
hell Nerf the hell outta monks period..

suprisingly enough this isnt sarcasm, I'm completely serious...

Scikar

10-09-03, 10:23

I don't like any of them.

The reason is, currently stealthing spies at OP wars are extremely difficult to kill. But that's fair enough, because they can't deal a great amount of damage, maybe snipe someone, but if the spy's trying to snipe you then your spy should be trying to outsnipe him. Any of these 3 ideas will give ppus the same defence. You reach a point where the ppu is almost dead, but instead of dying, he uses of these spells and comes back in 30 seconds. Sure, he's been gone for 30secs, but in effect it's like a 30 second free ressurection. Without one of these he would be dead, with them he's just gone for 30 seconds and then back fully buffed and healed.

Honestly I don't think they need anything to replace it. Guys like Pitspawn don't ask for something defensive because they know they don't need it. The ones who ask for something defensive are the low to mid level ppus who you can actually kill, and who say they use parashock when someone tries to gank them. But that's irrelevant because even with parashock those can be killed anyway since you can't spam para while running as a mid level ppu.

Therefore I think parashock does not need a replacement.

ericdraven

10-09-03, 10:32

Yep, i have to agree with Scikar, leave it as it is.

Scikar

10-09-03, 10:37

No don't leave it as is. Take it out and just don't put anything else in.

SigmaDraconis

10-09-03, 10:39

Well its not really the poinjt of _needing_ somethign more defensive...more like its not used in a defensive manner at all...when yur attacked..the first thing a smart aggressor will do is para you....correct me if im wrong..but defensive spells arent to be used as a precurser to an offensive action o.0

Lord Mansion

10-09-03, 12:19

Thank you MayhemMike for your useless post.

Right now, Holy Paralysis is being abused and it either needs to be "fixed" or completely replaced with another spell. Holy cloak sounds like a viable replacement.

Vampire222

10-09-03, 12:33

why dont we start nerfing apus instead..... i dunno if ppl know it yet but antibuff is annoying as hell for a ppu

Richard Slade

10-09-03, 12:37

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
"Ego of VetteroX"

Blows back all attackers by three-hundred metres. Also causes the target to start jabbering away in illiterate gibberish.

How about unholy flames of Helen?
Makes the quickbelt randomize and 2minutes later blurrs sight worse than doing five whiteflash in a row..
When sight returns ur in n00b mc5 with all stuff gone.
Can onnly be countered with "Slades silence" which makes Helen STFU at times :D :D :D

Helen Angilley

10-09-03, 12:38

Originally posted by Richard Slade
How about unholy flames of Helen?
Makes the quickbelt randomize and 2minutes later blurrs sight worse than doing five whiteflash in a row..
When sight returns ur in n00b mc5 with all stuff gone.
Can onnly be countered with "Slades silence" which makes Helen STFU at times :D :D :D

You are SO dead.

hinch

10-09-03, 12:40

Originally posted by Richard Slade
which makes Helen STFU at times :D :D :D

nothing can do that her ass is tied into the main power she aint neva shutting up so most people just have her on ignore

CLICK HERE TO IGNORE HELEN (http://neocron.jafc.de/member2.php?s=&action=addlist&userlist=ignore&userid=15382)

Richard Slade

10-09-03, 12:46

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
You are SO dead.

"She is using a very primative dialect, but I do believe that she think I am some sort of god."

"I've been waiting for you, Helen Angilley. We meet again at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner. Now I am the master."

Richard Slade

10-09-03, 12:47

Originally posted by hinch
nothing can do that her ass is tied into the main power she aint neva shutting up so most people just have her on ignore

"The force is strong in this one"

Besides that would ruin the fun of pwning her soon enough.:lol:

Btw isn't that considered harrassment to put out such a link

hinch

10-09-03, 12:50

Originally posted by Richard Slade
Btw isn't that considered harrassment to put out such a link

naah its called common sence

SorkZmok

10-09-03, 13:02

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
#3.ETHEREAL Aura. This spell is ironic, as it is the exact opposite of Holy Paralysis. This spell will quadruple runspeed(not increase ath/ag). It will cost significant mana to run while this spell is on, but you can run away at light speed. Well not LIGHT, but you get the point. And this spell would also look cool. :p OBVIOUSLY MANA COST AND ROF WILL BALANCE THIS SPELL.

I want burning footprints then!!!!11

well, to talk about the topic, make parashock cost A LOT ofmana. done. at least nearly done.
now lets work on the speed of resurrection.... o_O

Mr Friendly

10-09-03, 13:16

Originally posted by Heavyporker
Why not a "Holy Prism" spell... casting it makes 4 or 5 copies of your image, all copying your movements as you go around for like 40 seconds. Perfect for confusing your attackers.

also very useful for lagging a server to hell :p

phunqe

10-09-03, 13:17

I'm very reluctant using my HP in any fight. Sure, if I'm alone or with only one other runner and there are like 10 ppl on me, then yes to run away.
But for for "controlled" fights like op wars and PP fights I think it should not be used. I usually wait until the opposite side uses it :p

I have killed a few players with my SC in combination with the HP (since the SC has a rate of fire equal to a turtle's steps/mind you have to freeze).
Sure it was fun, but it need some special premises e.g you cannot do it in closed quarters or inside a building.
I don't know really. I wouldn't mind it being removed. Problem is it's really good when hunting for example DoY bots and other mobs. It's also very good as self defence only.
However, it would free 2 QB slots for me - the HP and the antiparalyze :p

I am kind of divided in the matter.

.Cyl0n

10-09-03, 13:18

take away apu's antibuff and its ok... otherwise ... crap

.cy

Maarten

10-09-03, 13:28

Replace HP with Crahn Holy Fatal Error. Will stop an attacker dead in it's tracks for about 10-20 seconds... :)

Lucjan

10-09-03, 15:01

I don't care...

The whole PPU thing is screwed beyond believe so who cares about HP.
Time for me to make a PPU again and spam my HP left and right at my enemies...for the pure defensive purpose only of coz...

ghandisfury

10-09-03, 16:25

Originally posted by .Cyl0n
take away apu's antibuff and its ok... otherwise ... crap

.cy

Na, don't take it away, just make it give a warning, and change the skins so you can see a difference from shelter and deflector. I would also like to see a SLIGHT reduction in cast rate.

Great post Shadow, it seems that many people don't realize that when HP is taken away, something needs to replace it (and it NEEDS to be removed). A good player with a good PPU by his side becomes almost as good as a great player. The only thing that really hurts my PE (still suck as a PPU) is parashock. I can beet many players with a PPU if the PPU doesn't shock me. So HP is the bain of all PvP......I don't even fight anymore when my opponents have a PPU.

I voted for number three just because I would like to see cloak remain a spy function. And 2 would have some balance issues.....it would have to be high enough ROF to cast quickly, but only last 30 seconds to a minute (so it can only be used to run away).

enigma_b17

10-09-03, 17:03

another one lol.....Holy Paralysis is possibly one of the very few things that makes being a ppu any fun. I agree that the fact that a Holy Paralysis does damage is contrary to what a ppu is sposed to do, and should be removed, but remove the spell altogether no. I am not just saying this from the perspective of a ppu, but I have been holy parad before lots of times, and yes its annoying and ends up in getting killed most of the time, but Holy Lightning is annoying aswell, so is a Liberator they both do alot of damage, get used to it, ever character class has a weapon/spell which is annoying to some1 else, stop complaining about it and come up with something constructive

Sanch0s

10-09-03, 17:11

take away paralysis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one cares what you do just get rid of it.

ghandisfury

10-09-03, 17:15

Originally posted by enigma_b17
another one lol.....Holy Paralysis is possibly one of the very few things that makes being a ppu any fun. I agree that the fact that a Holy Paralysis does damage is contrary to what a ppu is sposed to do, and should be removed, but remove the spell altogether no. I am not just saying this from the perspective of a ppu, but I have been holy parad before lots of times, and yes its annoying and ends up in getting killed most of the time, but Holy Lightning is annoying aswell, so is a Liberator they both do alot of damage, get used to it, ever character class has a weapon/spell which is annoying to some1 else, stop complaining about it and come up with something constructive

It's not the damage, it's the effect. Please don't compair HP to HL or the lib....the difference is that a lib user against an HL user stand a chance at fighting eachother.......if one of them is parashocked he is the sure loser (even if the parashocked person is the better player). So if you don't remove the spell then they need to change the name to "you're going to fucking die bitch"......I think it's more fitting.

Holy Paralysis is possibly one of the very few things that makes being a ppu any fun.

Then you suck at it (don't worrie, I do to). With the removal of parashock.....PPUs will remain the same, they just won't be able to inflict certain death on a given player. They will still be one of the most fun and challenging (unrewarding) characters I've ever played.

enigma_b17

10-09-03, 17:21

u say that a lib user against a hl user at least lib user has a chance, rite then a hl user against a holy para user is a stand off. Without holy antibuff, or some kind of antibuff spell, its unlikely they can kill the ppu. The ppu in turn cant kill the assuming apu, unless they use soul cluster (which shouldnt be able to kill i would like to add) or wastes about half an hour holy paraing the apu to death, which means get rid of hp, which as i said i agree with doing. And if u r fighting a 2 on 1 battle and u get parad, then its a 2 on 1 fight and u would more then likely die anyway, depening on skill/lvl of attackers

Disturbed021

10-09-03, 17:58

Leave the HP in, reduce the damage it does, and take away the Ressurection spell in warzones.
Imo that would balance things out in OP wars. If you are a PPU and you let one of your teammates die then you failed and shouldn't have the ability to bring him back to life. I think its utter BS that you can die then get rezzed with full buffs and jump right back in the fight:rolleyes:

Shadow Dancer

10-09-03, 18:43

Originally posted by Scikar

Honestly I don't think they need anything to replace it.

I totally agree, but out of "courtesy"(and so they won't complain :D) I posted these options.

If HP stays it really needs to have about quadruple the mana cost. Imagine if anti-buff was 33 mana and 105 RoF, i'm sure the ppus wouldn't like a spell that makes them helpless like that able to be spammed over and over. So they should see holy paralysis as the same thing

Originally posted by ericdraven
Yep, i have to agree with Scikar, leave it as it is.

:lol:

Originally posted by .Cyl0n
take away apu's antibuff and its ok... otherwise ... crap

.cy

nah antibuff is balanced. We can't spam antibuff.

Originally posted by ghandisfury
It's not the damage, it's the effect. Please don't compair HP to HL or the lib....the difference is that a lib user against an HL user stand a chance at fighting eachother

Exactly.

Originally posted by ghandisfury
PPUs will remain the same, they just won't be able to inflict certain death on a given player.

PPus will be more passive, less HATED(read, people will cry nerf less), AND they will be harder to kill because they can still run at fullspeed all the time. But then again being harder to kill won't matter much if they can't kill you indirectly by turning your ath/ag to 0 so other people can destroy you in 1 second.

ghandisfury

10-09-03, 19:06

I totally agree, but out of "courtesy"(and so they won't complain ) I posted these options.

IMO you're incorrect. For the simple fact that a PPU has no means to fight back. He can have multiple people attacking him, and they have no reprocusion.......then add in an APU do debuff, and they are dead, again with no means of defence. With antibuff spells, they have rendered a solo PPU defencless (remeber, this is with a total lack of offences). So, basically what this means is that ANY runner can attack a PPU and have no fear of death, especially with HP taken away. Something NEEDS to be given in return! HP NEEDS to be taken away! I would be happy with a SC that actually works......one that can't be cast on another player.....but attacks if the PPU is attacked. I would also be happy with one of the other spells that you have suggested.

In other words, if HP is taken away, and nothing given in return, then you will see one more PPU dwindle from the already rapidly decreasing player base.

ericdraven

10-09-03, 19:20

Originally posted by ghandisfury
In other words, if HP is taken away, and nothing given in return, then you will see one more PPU dwindle from the already rapidly decreasing player base.
Well that's what he wants anyway. ;)

icarium

10-09-03, 19:21

Originally posted by Ryuben
wow mike so help full as usual :rolleyes:

not helpful i agree...

but funny as fuck :lol:

guywithnoears

11-09-03, 00:59

these are all retarded..

...who thought of all this?

Helen Angilley

11-09-03, 01:01

Originally posted by guywithnoears
these are all retarded..

...who thought of all this?

I thought you left in a huff?

G.0.D.

11-09-03, 01:03

shadow arnt you a APU? sounds like ur trying 2 nerf my ppu.. . . . TAKE IT BACK!!

guywithnoears

11-09-03, 01:37

The reason why people're complaining about how much of an offensive threat HP is because it frickin FREEZES you. Face the damn facts :rolleyes: . Why do you think there're stun traps. They dont just stun, they "push" too. Obviously, kk knew what they were doing when they added the word STUN in there.

APUs dont want it cause it messes them up in so many ways(harder to debuff-and-kill and aim because it totally fucks up how your cursor moves) and other people hate it cause it sometimes get spammed and people die from it. Solution to the latter is freakin fixing it. More mana or something. Tons of solutions have been posted and none of them have really been applied yet.

HP IS an offensive spell, and is a defensive spell. It's offensive when you can slow someone down and defensive when you can slow them down and run away. You dont see people complaining about damage boost. Yeah...reason...people can still run around at their speed and aim without it messing up your mouse movements. But it has an offensive and defensive effect, just like holy paralysis.

KidWithStick

11-09-03, 01:52

para+damageboost~dead=no fun.

Scikar

11-09-03, 01:56

Originally posted by KidWithStick
para+damageboost~dead=no fun.

Actually,

Damage boost = Fuck! But exciting!

Paralysis = This sucks.

Damage Boost + Paralysis = Why do I bother?

Hence: Damage boost = fine because at least you still have a chance to win. But paralysis = bad because it means suddenly your ability goes totally out of the window and you're more or less automatically dead.

ezza

11-09-03, 02:28

rather they removed the para than implement some shite idea

only one that was even remotly a decent idea was the 3rd one the ethreal aura, but them how fast would they be able to run, even if it adds to agility and athletics, there is still the cap, so the ppu wouldnt get away if there was no para, and the longer he runs the more likely his buffs are to fail, which would them make him easier to kill.

as the para greatly reduces the speed of the enemy enableing the ppu to run or spam the enemy:rolleyes:

so its not quite the complete oposite

Shadow Dancer

11-09-03, 02:41

Originally posted by ezza
rather they removed the para than implement some shite idea

lol, ignorance.

Originally posted by ezza

only one that was even remotly a decent idea was the 3rd one the ethreal aura, but them how fast would they be able to run, even if it adds to agility and athletics, there is still the cap, so the ppu wouldnt get away if there was no para, and the longer he runs the more likely his buffs are to fail, which would them make him easier to kill.

Well if you read,(doubt it though) you would see I said that if holy para can reduce your runspeed without altering your ath/ag then i'm sure KK can do the opposite for the ppu.

Originally posted by ezza

as the para greatly reduces the speed of the enemy enableing the ppu to run or spam the enemy:rolleyes:

so its not quite the complete oposite

Reduce enemy speed

Increase your own speed

I dunno, seems like the opposite to me.

ezza

11-09-03, 08:55

just example

but one reduces speed by 80% while if like alot of monks you run fast and proberbly not far off the cap, then your not going to get a 80% increase in speed are you, because theres a cap

and how is it ignornance?

give them one less spell to have to fuck around with as they already have a shit load to manage.

and para is just lame

phunqe

11-09-03, 08:59

Revome the HP already.

So we can end THE WHINING(tm)(r)

Seriously, remove it. I would be happier with 2 QB slots free where my HP and Antiparalyze is.

Spy<VS>Spy

11-09-03, 20:29

Originally posted by hnlecter
The cloak is the WORST IDEA EVER. God damn people want monks to be the fucking all class class, IT ISN'T MENT SO. The only thing that monks can't do ubar and still cast in a second is construction. What is next holy build 3 slots?? Just remove all the other characters and have everyone be monks. I mean the cloak is the ONLY thing that keeps spys alive since they don't have elite shields and heal +anti anything.

But I would like to see holy "don't move" gone they don't need anything else. But sometimes there are some people who just move at mind boggling speeds and the only way to hit them is paralysing them. I don't see why people complain about them so much. Yes, I do think monks are a little overpowered. And yes I have played a ppu monk with a crapload of people attacking me because it is fun.

hannibal's got it down to a science...ahh, tell me, why again we need any other class but monks?

as said, monks can do anything. they hit harder then tanks, further then tanks and fuck they hit EVERY god damn time. they are damn hard to kill, have the best armor...the only thing atm they cant do real great is construction...

monks need to be hit with the frikken nerf bat hard, their knee's need to buckle like a gnome getting hit by a weed whacker, fall on their face in the mud, and just die...bleeding...in intence pain.

however, when i say nerf, i really mean reclass the the charactor...for one, the PPU has spells, he should not have. true sight santum, huge on the list.

i could go off on a tangent here, and list what i think should be in place, but honostly, thats the problem, KK has got to spread the wealth...ppu monks do everything for us, and APU's open up a can of whoop ass thats equaled by no one.

Shadow Dancer

11-09-03, 20:37

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

and APU's open up a can of whoop ass thats equaled by no one.

And our defenses balance it, so what's your point?

Have you seen how fast an explosive lib kills an apu? I was almost about to make a thread complaining about it. It actually kills faster than CS. I used to be afraid of other apus, now i'm afraid of other apus AND liberators. I think it was the slight damage boost, might have been slight against other classes but against me.......:eek:

Not to mention a spy has stealth and range which tehy can use to kill the apu.

Sorry but anyone who complains about apus........well I question their PvP skill. The only person who has every right to complain about apus is a pistol spy. s

SovKhan

11-09-03, 20:43

eh i would settle for a shelter/defelctor type spell that if someone shoots you they get a para on them.
then it is a passive spell because it depends on the actions of another.

Spy<VS>Spy

11-09-03, 20:57

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
And our defenses balance it, so what's your point?

Have you seen how fast an explosive lib kills an apu? I was almost about to make a thread complaining about it. It actually kills faster than CS. I used to be afraid of other apus, now i'm afraid of other apus AND liberators. I think it was the slight damage boost, might have been slight against other classes but against me.......:eek:

Not to mention a spy has stealth and range which tehy can use to kill the apu.

Sorry but anyone who complains about apus........well I question their PvP skill. The only person who has every right to complain about apus is a pistol spy. s

whoa, back the hell up there cowboy...back the hell on up. an explosive lib might be decent to monks but ONE hit with a fire apoc is usually doom to a spy. we can ONLY defend against two damage types at best, x-ray and something else. its like playing russian rollete with monks...uh gee, is he going to beat me down with a lightning, poison or fire? well...heres to guessing...

if you guess wrong, your dead, you are so fucking dead you wont have a prayer in hell to cloak away.

Monk armor is universal, it protects against ALL damage types except for poison. by your logic, a spy's weapon should do as much damage as the monk...as powerful as my pain easer might by it cant rifle a near capped APU... he turns, looks at me, i see his hand light up and that tells me i have to leave. he hass better defence and offensive then the spy.

Why is that? dont give me that cloaking crap, aside from sniping, APU's are VERY tricky to take down...thats if they are alone, if you have a APU and a PPU, then your a pretty bad ass team...

a PPU and a spy....uh...right...i wonder which team will win that one.

come on here. lets be real.

Shadow Dancer

11-09-03, 21:07

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
whoa, back the hell up there cowboy...back the hell on up.

roflmao

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
whoa, back the hell up there cowboy...back the hell on up. an explosive lib might be decent to monks but ONE hit with a fire apoc is usually doom to a spy. we can ONLY defend against two damage types at best, x-ray and something else. its like playing russian rollete with monks...uh gee, is he going to beat me down with a lightning, poison or fire? well...heres to guessing...

Poison destroys me. And to get decent speed I can't have great resists everywhere. Basically it's not THAT different than you, but yea we have slightly better resist.

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

Monk armor is universal, it protects against ALL damage types except for poison. by your logic, a spy's weapon should do as much damage as the monk...as powerful as my pain easer might by it cant rifle a near capped APU... he turns, looks at me, i see his hand light up and that tells me i have to leave. he hass better defence and offensive then the spy.

By my logic? I never said bad defense means you have to have good offense. I said our defense justifies our offense. I don't think a spies defense justifies whatever "advantages" they have as a class. Guess what, that's a balance issue with spies. Just because spies are underpowered, doesn't mean apus are overpowered.

You also forget we cant' snipe or STEALTH. And stop trying to downplay the power of stealth. I wish I could "escape" as soon as I saw a group of enemies. I wish I could hit once or twice then dissapear into air. As I said before, I Think spies should be just as powerful as psis but in a technological way. And power doesn't always mean the vanilla method of more offense more defense.

And you forget, we have other disadvantages too. People never seem to look at another classes disadvantages. I WISH i had gunstyle ammo. I WISH i could hack and fight at the same time. etc....

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

Why is that? dont give me that cloaking crap, aside from sniping, APU's are VERY tricky to take down...

Why are they "tricky" to take down?

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
if you have a APU and a PPU, then your a pretty bad ass team...
.

riiiiiiiiiight. Now you're involving 2 classes which makes your point MOOT. Not to mention ANYTHING+ppu=badass
APU teamed up with PPU doesn't suddenly acquire magical powers. I don't have a spell that says "once a ppu is in your team, you can cast fire avalanche darkness energy spell". THX

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

a PPU and a spy....uh...right...i wonder which team will win that one.

You mean PPU/APU vs PPU/Spy? Well that depends. The only advantage the apu has is debuff. Secondly if both ppus are "good", then neither will win unless the other screws up.

The other day me and sunrise fought moofausa and cryptochronic. What a retarded battle that was lmao.

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

come on here. lets be real.

Oh I am papi chulo, I am. :p

petek480

11-09-03, 21:12

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
You mean PPU/APU vs PPU/Spy? Well that depends. The only advantage the apu has is debuff. Secondly if both ppus are "good", then neither will win unless the other screws up.

Ok thats not true. Alot of spies, when sheltered, can take upwards of 100 damage from a FA. Thats alot more then an apu would take from any weapon a spy can use.

Shadow Dancer

11-09-03, 21:18

Mind yer own business pete. :p

Spy<VS>Spy

11-09-03, 21:27

what ever blows your hair back, if you feel that way shadow then by all means that is a solid oppinion. though as far as the regards that the charactor class monks, rival all the other classes, is not a false statment.

NDA clearly demonstrating the amazing power of monks, groupped together they are ruthless, an army of tank or whatever assorted mix is at a disavantage.

why is that? because a monk can skill themselves to be the best at every area of offence and defence. what the hell can a spy, PE, or tank do?? it really doesnt matter what weapons they use, or if they use stealth. it pretty much boils down to the same combat variables...doing more damage then you take.

you even need a monk to 'efficently' take down anouther monk, you talk about me speaking as if the cloak is nothing, you talk about the holy antibuff likes its a parashock ball.

the spell is devastating, and dont think i dont know about that neat little double cast bug. spy uncloaks, 3 or 6 poisons in less then a second...uh, well at this point, running away is not on the menu...the only way you will beat a APU as a spy is if the APU is dumb, uses 1 type of damage, that you can defend yourself against, and is at a distance, snuck up on...whatever.

Monks can counter EVERYTHING, end of story. they can counter cloakers, tanks, PE's, freezes, shields...the monk class is as universal as their armor...and THATS what makes them in a class of their own. cause the other classes cant do dick with those that have them unless they have monks themselves backing em up.

trust me...legion has tried...very emberessing...

for the record, this goes out to all you snipers out there. how often does a target stay still for you, at range and let you kill it? probably not many.

Shadow Dancer

11-09-03, 22:00

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

you even need a monk to 'efficently' take down anouther monk, you talk about me speaking as if the cloak is nothing, you talk about the holy antibuff likes its a parashock ball.

hrmm? You need an apu to "efficiently" take down a ppu. But you don't need anyone to efficiently take down an apu.

And I never talked about HB as if it was crap. I know HB ownz. Personally I don't use it because it costs an outrageous amount of mana.

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

the spell is devastating, and dont think i dont know about that neat little double cast bug. spy uncloaks, 3 or 6 poisons in less then a second...uh, well at this point, running away is not on the menu...the only way you will beat a APU as a spy is if the APU is dumb, uses 1 type of damage, that you can defend yourself against, and is at a distance, snuck up on...whatever.

double cast bug? I know not of what you speak. 3-6 poisons in LESS than a second? Yea whatever dude. I face the same problem from other apus. I pray they don't use fire(i shouldn't have said that in a public message board :rolleyes: ) or poison, beacuse they both own me.

And a silent hunter, ONE HIT to the legs is all that is required. That gun does an outrageous amount of damage to apus, especially if they wear PA. Spies have better range than apus, all you gotta do is hit the legs with piercing. That's what I do to faraway targets, I just cripple them to keep them out of THEIR optimum range.

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

Monks can counter EVERYTHING, end of story. they can counter cloakers, tanks, PE's, freezes, shields...the monk class is as universal as their armor...and THATS what makes them in a class of their own. cause the other classes cant do dick with those that have them unless they have monks themselves backing em up.

You really need to be dirrecting most of your gripes towards PPUs. APus can't counter SQUAT, except other ppus. PPus are the ones who have anti poison, anti damage boost, anti-everything in the fucking world spells. PPUs are the ones with the shields and heals that make your damage irrelevant. You need to be complaining about the overimportance of ppus. You don't need apus anymore than you need the other classes, Except for ONE thing, and that's to take down ppus. So IMO ppus are the source of the "imbalance".

Apus hit and debuff. THAT IS IT. NOTHING else.

Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy

for the record, this goes out to all you snipers out there. how often does a target stay still for you, at range and let you kill it? probably not many.

lol No comment to that.

zonk

11-09-03, 22:09

I barely use Holy paralyse.
Holding back and heal and cover ur mates is much more sattisfying, since its TEAMWORK that makes MMORPG good

petek480

11-09-03, 22:10

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
You really need to be dirrecting most of your gripes towards PPUs. APus can't counter SQUAT, except other ppus. PPus are the ones who have anti poison, anti damage boost, anti-everything in the fucking world spells. PPUs are the ones with the shields and heals that make your damage irrelevant. You need to be complaining about the overimportance of ppus. You don't need apus anymore than you need the other classes, Except for ONE thing, and that's to take down ppus. So IMO ppus are the source of the "imbalance".

I'm sorry shadow, didn't want to say anything but then you had to start talking about ppus:D You say that ppus have shields that make damage irrelevant? What about you HL and FA(that basically seem to go through shelters on spies)? HL does insane damage to people sheltered making them almost irrelevant too.

Don't you think it's a bit odd when an apu can take down a tank with 4 or 5 hits from there HL and it takes about 3 to 4 hits from there cs to kill an apu even though a tank is suppose to have the second best defenses while an apu is suppose to have the second worst? Not to mention that alot of those burst will miss unlike a apu who has there HL that all you have to do is point and click and hits the tank everytime.

Shadow Dancer

11-09-03, 22:13

Originally posted by petek480
I'm sorry shadow, didn't want to say anything but then you had to start talking about ppus:D You say that ppus have shields that make damage irrelevant? What about you HL and FA(that basically seem to go through shelters on spies)? HL does insane damage to people sheltered making them almost irrelevant too.

Like I told spy, that's a balance issue with spies. I'm not sure why KK feels they should have such horrible defense.

Originally posted by petek480

Don't you think it's a bit odd when an apu can take down a tank with 4 or 5 hits from there HL and it takes about 3 to 4 hits from there cs to kill an apu even though a tank is suppose to have the second best defenses while an apu is suppose to have the second worst? Not to mention that alot of those burst will miss unlike a apu who has there HL that all you have to do is point and click and hits the tank everytime.

With a capped HL the MINIMUM amount of hits i've ever needed to kill a tank was 6. Also, that's if i get "high" random damage almost every hit. That's basically like saying the tank can kill the apu in 3 bursts if every single bullet hits. You also neglect to mention a tank can take much much MUCH more punishment from other classes than the apu can take from those other classes. I dont' see tanks being crippled and losing 3/4 health from one shot of SH, I don't see them dying in 2 seconds to an explosive mod liberator.

THNX