View Full Version : Please add penaties back to LE... or something.
the damn LE has to have some kinda penalty. Nobody should have the right to run around do whatever the hell they want and not be pked. In both TH and MB, le chars have been used against me to spy on my location and report it back to the defenders... lame. all I can do is outrun them so I can loop back and they dont know where I am... someone outnumbered anywhere from 2vs1 or 50 vs one needs the element of surprise. I say remove the LE... man id laugh and laugh pking former LE users... oh the sheer joy....
but this wont happen. So how about adding penalties like, not being able to use and channels except local, ooc, and help? If your not going to interact with the pvp aspect, you dont nee weapons found by people who isk their necks unting without les. Or, put he - 1/3 xp and weapon handycap back on, or simply make it so you cnnot use it bast level 40 or so.
How about system on it so it will block player inflicted damage for up to 1 min, but then turns off ( 1 min is enough time to escape)
Or simply, LE uses have a tag next to their name this says "Im a worthless, yellowbelly pussy on legs" something like that.
It was one thing to have an LE to stop lowe levels from being ganked, but when people abuse it for scouting on pkers or in op fights, is just fraking lame.
You'll find most people need to use the LE against you because you're so damn good..
Refer to: http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74762
For proof.
Someone sure is bored tonight
Anyway:
"It was one thing to have an LE to stop lowe levels from being ganked, but when people abuse it for scouting on pkers or in op fights, is just fraking lame."
Yes, it may be lame, but we have all learned to deal with it and LE spy in our midst or not we manage to get by at our op wars and overcome. With practice you'll learn how to deal with it as well :D
I do it for you beefheart, just for you ;) Anyway, Seriosuly, something has to be done against people abusing the LE.
Shadow Dancer
09-09-03, 04:44
Originally posted by MrBane
You'll find most people need to use the LE against you because you're so damn good..
Refer to: http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74762
For proof.
:lol:
I don't think the LE should have any penalties, especially since like .5% of the people in the game use it.
gotta agree here; LE for when your lvlin is fine imo; but if your using LE to spy thats just ... well... LOW
I play the game LE'd. my friends play the game LE'd. I only signed up for retail after the removed the penalties. I do not spy with it, I would like to not be punished for others doing it. thats my view, thank you.
I dont think the LE should work outside the neocron city.
Let's put it this way...
If you are raiding Tech Haven, Military Base, or the Twilight Canyons and some LE user reports your position to his faction through faction chat, then it becomes your responsibility to get the hell out of there or face death. We all live with LE users reporting our positions (well most of us). In OP wars, enemies send out LE users to spy on us to see where we are in the OP. A simple solution? Turrets to attack all not in the clan. LE users dont scare me one bit because they cant do shit. And if they report where you are, it's gonna take the non-LE users some time to get where you are. And who honestly hides somewhere for 5 minutes?
Originally posted by Drake6k
I dont think the LE should work outside the neocron city.
Agreed.
I also think that CM, TG, FA, and generally all factions that will start outside of Neocron shouldn't get LE's.
All my characters still have their LEs in and I would consider it unfair to go around scouting on faction enemies in PvP. That is the sort of cheeseball tactic that hurts PvP games.
The one change that makes sense to me is to not allow LE users access to the Faction channel, that way if they are going to report on enemy movements they'll have to do it on an open channel.
edit: I think that people who don't want to participate in PvP should be able to use the LE to be safe in most parts of the wilderness. Perhaps NC should follow the example of AO and have some remote areas where the LE doesn't work, and put some cool loot there that can't be found in the safe zones. That way there is a motivation and advantage to go out there without the protection of the LE.
The only times I've ever removed my LE was to test XP gain in beta 4, generate XP very late in B4, and to level Psi as a Tank in an earlier beta. That's it. It's never been removed in retail.
I don't "spy". I play my character as one bound to the LE. That's it. You're right, there are some that may spy, but far as I'm aware it IS possible to kill LE users, just not very easy. Maybe you should come up with a defense instead of trying to take away my fun, eh?
Neptune will arrive eventually...
I think hes complaining about the level 40/** players with there LE in that he cant gank in the back while there fighting 2 warbots with his capped PE that didnt start PvP until it was capped, as mentioned here...
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73008
You will notice that there a virtually no capped LE players, these are what your hunting right ? Coz killing a player half your rank isnt that hard/fun. Right ?
So you must be wrong, because there are not any players close you your level (capped) Vetto with their LE's in, and your not ganking nOObs, are you ?
VictorKruger
09-09-03, 05:58
Originally posted by Marx
I also think that CM, TG, FA, and generally all factions that will start outside of Neocron shouldn't get LE's.
If you think about it, the factions whose runner's brains reject the mindwashing in the newbie MC5 should also start without LE chips. From a RP'ing aspect, the mind rejected the brainwashing so the brain should also reject the LE chip.
There are plenty of pro-city factions that will keep the newer players at bay as well as those pro-city factions are better developed with Epics and all. and i believe that all anti-city (FA and CM included) factions should be for the more experienced player.
Im not saying that the pro-city factions are for newbies only, im just saying that they are better geared towards them and they are, more or less, better designed with them in mind.
Sunab_Naverith
09-09-03, 06:02
If you don't like a LE player who is legitly spying on you or your clan, use any of the numerous "exploits" to kill them. KK don't seem to give a crap regarding those exploits, so have at it!
Now as for me, I am a LE wearer. I have had to endure insults/comments that range from "Ohhh, a nancy boy who don't like to play!", to comments that would get me a permanent ban here on the forums 8| .
I play solo, mainly cuz I'm never on enough to be in a clan for any form of support, so the LE is my surefire ticket of NOT losing all my shit which I worked hard to get. I do agree, however, there has to be SOMETHING done regarding this LE spying exploit, because for the 1.3% of the population that uses them, we need to have some sort of restriction for spying.
Perhaps if an outpost zone has war declared within it, no LE players may enter? Hmm, the possibilities.....
I dont know how spying for clans i have no comment on that.. but if your attacking someones HQ and they use an LE user to spy that is perfectly fair.. the LE user cant participate in the actual fighting so the only way they can help there faction and its members it to spy on thye opposeing forces.. LE users get critisized everyday.. for the few peopel who use them for spying/leveling.. whatever let them be.. is it that big of a decideing factor on who wins and who doesnt? I use an LE and i have been killed by exploiters more than i have seen someone spy... so what do you propose for all the exploiters that kill LE runners?
Sunab_Naverith
09-09-03, 06:29
Nothing, because us, as LE users, have exploits WE can use to harrass/kill non-LE users who exploit to try and kill us :p.
I don't think the LE should have any penalties, especially since like .5% of the people in the game use it.
It's more like 10% on Saturn Shad, really. There's a shitpile of them.
If you don't like a LE player who is legitly spying on you or your clan, use any of the numerous "exploits" to kill them. KK don't seem to give a crap regarding those exploits, so have at it!
Love to, but sadly they all involve Area Damage or DoT (as far as I know). Unfortunately for us PEs, that pretty much limits us to Mini Rocketlaunchers, or wasting Str on HC to use a Rocket Launcher. Both bad options.
Vet is annoyed by LE people for the same reason he is annoyed by stealth - they won't hold still and take their damn medicine. It's frustrating to know that if you could only SEE the bastard (or be able to shoot them) you'd be happily walking away ten seconds later with their dogtags jingling in your pocket.
the LE user cant participate in the actual fighting so the only way they can help there faction and its members it to spy on thye opposeing forces
Nope. They've chosen to not participate in the PvP aspect of the game, so they should stay the fuck away. SPIES are for SPYING. Get it? That's what that nifty stealth tool is for - being invisible and spying. LE users should stay the fuck in carebear land and frolic in the fuckin sunflowers - AND OUT OF THE REAL PLAYER'S WAY!
well i'll say that LE spies used for clan OPs is out of order. as for LE users who give faction info when there home turf is being raided. well if it's own home, you can do what ever the f*** you like.
i currently have all 3 of my chars with their LE in. yes i'm CM but i have no plans to go hunting in enemy territory with the LE in. that would just be taking the p!ss.
i've also had 1 of my LE char's take damage from another player. though i know it wasn't ment. so the LE damage exploits still exist in game.
Vet is annoyed by LE people for the same reason he is annoyed by stealth - they won't hold still and take their damn medicine.Stealth makes one untargettable and barely visible. It does not make one invulnerable. AoE still hurts.
It's frustrating to know that if you could only SEE the bastard (or be able to shoot them) you'd be happily walking away ten seconds later with their dogtags jingling in your pocket.
What, you expect everyone to stand like a statue and not defend themselves? PvP's not PvM...
Psycho_Soldier
09-09-03, 08:30
Originally posted by IceStorm
AoE still hurts.
Ya... gotta love those AoE weapons Spy's and PE's can use. :lol:
Tanks AoE... you would have to be very damn lucky to kill a stealther on full health. The only AoE that really effects stealthers are barrels, especially para barrel, but thats it. Monks = the anti stealther, because not only barrels but what do monks get? Thats right, Holy True Sight Sanctum. I think stealth should only work if you stand still for 5 seconds and then in order for it to keep working you still have to stand still, but making it so you are completely invisible.but you can still get hurt by AoE though.
A idea I had for LE. Make it so that NON-LE users can toggle it so that LE users may or may not be able to see them. This I believe would fix this problem.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Nobody should have the right to run around do whatever the hell they want and not be pked.
I say remove the LE... man id laugh and laugh pking former LE users... oh the sheer joy....
Or simply, LE uses have a tag next to their name this says "Im a worthless, yellowbelly pussy on legs" something like that.
You sir are _exactly_ the reason why the LE was put in the game in the first place
I'll do you a favour though and save you some money - there are several free pure PvP FPS games and they're all that way ->
Ya... gotta love those AoE weapons Spy's and PE's can use.
The discussion is in context of spying and op wars. If you're having an op war and you DON'T bring AoE-wielding monks and tanks, that's your own fault.
Q`alooaith
09-09-03, 09:05
the LE is the only thing keeping people like you from attacking my Psi..
I just want to level a bit in peace, do the Chao's caves a little, and get myself a HL.. maybe when I'm capped I'll take my LE out and rip all them LE bashers I've seen calling me some terible names.
The insults range from, N00b, to sceaming, to people shooting towards me to cause knockback..
Psycho_Soldier
09-09-03, 09:36
Originally posted by IceStorm
The discussion is in context of spying and op wars. If you're having an op war and you DON'T bring AoE-wielding monks and tanks, that's your own fault.
Excuse me sir? Did you forget what you posted? Let me remind you.
Originally posted by IceStorm Stealth makes one untargettable and barely visible. It does not make one invulnerable. AoE still hurts
Meaning, by replying to hivemind's comment you acknowledged that there is more to this discussion than just spying and op wars. You also don't seem to have noticed that the thread starter is mentioning pking and not just op wars, while not even mentioning stealth. So don't quote me then say, "The discussion is in context of spying and op wars." as if thats all there is to the discussion.
Lookit.
The 3 non-Neocron factions (soon to be 4) should not start with LE's. LE's by definition are a cityadmin tool to aid new runners, and there are side effects. (I agree the penalties should be reinstated). The wasteland factions have their own leveling grounds that are pretty well protected against PK intrusions (or will be once their NPC's actually start firing at enemy players). They will need to level up to a respectable level either at their starting location (TG, TH, CM, DoY) or go in the back entrance of Neocron (Outzone) to PP and level there. Likewise, city factions will have their own pretty well protected areas as well.
THAT is why when you create a new character and select your faction, it says "for experienced players" for those factions, and NOT just because you'll need someone to give you a ride to Neocron sooner or later.
See the factions are half assed right now. They still don't mean anything. Once the Copbots + faction NPC's actually start shooting (all of them) then that's where the RP and storyline can really take off. People will have to stay in their respective areas, or risk getting shot at. I can't wait cuz it's gonna make this game so much more interesting than it already is. Until then....
Which brings up a different point. Change stealth devices to be considered TOOLS and not WEAPONS so you can stealth in Copbot zones! :eek: :D
*Sigh* here we go again. The rabid PKer's bitching about the LE. Well you know what?
Life's tough, buy a fucking helmet.(Thank you Dennis Leary)
I know it just infuriates you that there are people who won't just die on command for you, Vettero, and it makes me smile thinking about it. It's your kind of spineless, one sided PvP that makes people want to use LEs in the first place.
Flame away, I've got my LE in:p
Richard Slade
09-09-03, 10:25
Here's my two bucks for the masses:
Keep the damn LE cuz I'm friggin' tired of lvling in the cores of TH or just GRin to MB to go for some WB hunting with my droner and getting assraped by some damn camper by the GR...
Or some PKer running around TH shooting everything that moves
I mean c'mon, a droner aint much of worth in those spaces and so one would get killed over and over and over and over...[add free amount of "and over"s here] again...
AND that's the only way u know when to NOT go outta ur apt. in TH... Since you're not the smallest amount of n00b killers in TH either.. I mean shit remove killing in the bases of those less than */40 since we're just lvling..
And just cuz u think it's fun to kill randomly at times it doesn't mean we all wanna put up with it, therefor we have the LEs.
Why should we have a disadvantage just cuz of that?!:mad:
Disturbed021
09-09-03, 10:27
Originally posted by VetteroX
Nobody should have the right to run around do whatever the hell they want and not be pked.
Ya damnit! They should all lineup and wait to get slaughtered like good little Droms!:rolleyes:
Mighty Max
09-09-03, 10:35
And dont forget to mention, that all LE wearing players exploit ....
He wants disadvantages because if you use an LE, you must be a skill-less-pussy-retard:rolleyes:
Or how about this Vettero: We get your 'label' for using LEs, but if you kill someone more than 4 or 5 ranks below you, YOU get a nice, "I'm a capped asshole who's afraid of a real fight, and have to shoot people half my rank in the back while they're at half life fighting a Warbot Titan." label? Fuck off.
Originally posted by Distaria
He wants disadvantages because if you use an LE, you must be a skill-less-pussy-retard:rolleyes:
Or how about this Vettero: We get your 'label' for using LEs, but if you kill someone more than 4 or 5 ranks below you, YOU get a nice, "I'm a capped asshole who's afraid of a real fight, and have to shoot people half my rank in the back while they're at half life fighting a Warbot Titan." label? Fuck off.
ROFL
Helen Angilley
09-09-03, 20:15
Poor widdle Vet can't handle not being able to kill a newbie.
Here's a tip love, go and hunt some Roaches, similar rank to the people you target anyway.
yes, you got me. It must have been a 3/3 carrying that holy lightning i hacked... or yes, i belive there was a 5/5 killing roaches with a fire apoc... killed him too, hacked that out of the belt. Please dont forget that all the 101st CM are under the rank of 10/10, and swarm me when I go pking there... man they finnaly brought me down with their pinfire nailguns.
Fact is, ill kill afew low levels. 1 min later, they are on their capped alt and comming for me. and, ill take down a lot of capped people before the damn apu/ppu combo finnaly shows up and drive me out or kills me.
well look wuts so bad about getting ganked so much? I too made a n00b PE and me and a friend got ganked by capped chars too... wut did i do? when i saw the tank attack i fucking FOUGHT BACK! damn it i dunt care if i'm /20 i'll fucking fight ya! Thats wut this game is about: survival! and u need to fight to survive, not just depend on the LE... (u'd be amazed wut a /20 with a streetmodel SMG can do to a tank... that or he was just suprised that i didnt run for the door)
yes the LE is a good thing for people who honestly DONT want to pvp; but so many people abuse it now that frankly it'll be better once its gone, or just put back the penalties so that not so many people will use it.
Dade Murphey
09-09-03, 22:56
see...no one really looks at this like a role playing game really...though that infact is what it is...so you have these "law abiding citizens" (the people with LE's)...and you have your people who blatantly defy the law (those without)...the LE simply blocks you from killing other people...it doesn't stop you from stealing, drug running...spying...anything like that...so this murderer has a little friend on the inside who finds him nice little victims...fuckin deal with it...get your own little spy
dont have a problem with le's, i just think rank 50+ le users are lame, although i can accpet that ppl on saturn use le's cuz so much low lv ganking goes on in the shit heap server (im not bitter honest LOL) i level my charecters very slowly cuz i enjoy the experiance rather than just getting in there to pvp, some of the most fun ive had was hunting with my old clan R&D i really enjoyed that clan, none of this uberness bullshit just good clean fun cuz we knew that we prolly couldnt kill anyone anyway so we where content chatting hunting and making money. People like vettro plat this game for the technical pvp aspect of the game, but people like him should be given as much consideration as le users, the thing is its alot more infuriateing being killed than not being able to kill some one ever! so people hate pker's becuase they are dedicated to what they enjoy and people that are pked by them are understandable upset, but le users and pkers are at either end of NC's user base spectrum, and you should treat both with the same attitude, its emotion that gets all the shit hitting the fan, and trolls like helen feed on it so they can infuriate and stirr shit, trolls make me so sick.
FireWarrior
09-09-03, 23:20
I have a much better idea than removing the LE... Make all zones, including the city-zones like War-zones!
And then shut down the registration system since getting more players to the game will be more difficult than getting Israel to grant a full pardon to Hamas.
And while we're at it, let's give all classes the ability to use all weapons and equipment in the game...
Oh Oh, we could also remove the skill system! Give all players 10 in health and all weapons do 5 damage as capped!
Wouldn't that make for a fun game?
/sarcasm OFF
LE's are for players not interested in PvP. If you make this game 100% PvP with NO restrictions you kill it. Simple as that.
Stop the pathetic newbie-ganking and get a friggin life. And grow some balls (and maybe a brain while you're at it) too.
I'm SO sick of all the PK'ers complaining about LE's... Has it ever occured to any of you that some people WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME, BUT IS NOT INTERESTED IN GETTING GANKED EVERY 5th SECOND!!!
so, some people use the LE and spy on other clans for OP wars... who gives a sh*t? Place a couple of turrets and they can't stay in the OP long enough to get any detailed information anyhow.
*Gets ready for all the flamers/whiners that will come yelling at me now*
Heavyporker
09-09-03, 23:22
agreed, fire. It's lame, Pkers whining about RPers and LE users.
Helen Angilley
09-09-03, 23:23
The LE has also been a part of the game since, near enough, the start.
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
The LE has also been a part of the game since, near enough, the start.
But would PK'ers be PK'ers if the same restriction as in Beta 3 or so was in place, when you didnt just drop 1 item, you dropped your entire Quick Belt? Or would the PK'ers think "no, i might die, I might lose something, i'll stick my LE in"
Makes u think really.
Helen Angilley
09-09-03, 23:31
Originally posted by Lexxuk
But would PK'ers be PK'ers if the same restriction as in Beta 3 or so was in place, when you didnt just drop 1 item, you dropped your entire Quick Belt? Or would the PK'ers think "no, i might die, I might lose something, i'll stick my LE in"
Makes u think really.
Eh, with PK'ers it's always been "I should get something for killing another Runner", or "I should be able to gank n00bs".
It's never been "I should lose something when, after pissing off over thirty people, they kill me", or "I should be able to gank n00bs in order to compensate for the tininess of my penis".
Originally posted by FireWarrior
I have a much better idea than removing the LE... Make all zones, including the city-zones like War-zones!
And then shut down the registration system since getting more players to the game will be more difficult than getting Israel to grant a full pardon to Hamas.
And while we're at it, let's give all classes the ability to use all weapons and equipment in the game...
Oh Oh, we could also remove the skill system! Give all players 10 in health and all weapons do 5 damage as capped!
Wouldn't that make for a fun game?
/sarcasm OFF
LE's are for players not interested in PvP. If you make this game 100% PvP with NO restrictions you kill it. Simple as that.
Stop the pathetic newbie-ganking and get a friggin life. And grow some balls (and maybe a brain while you're at it) too.
I'm SO sick of all the PK'ers complaining about LE's... Has it ever occured to any of you that some people WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME, BUT IS NOT INTERESTED IN GETTING GANKED EVERY 5th SECOND!!!
so, some people use the LE and spy on other clans for OP wars... who gives a sh*t? Place a couple of turrets and they can't stay in the OP long enough to get any detailed information anyhow.
*Gets ready for all the flamers/whiners that will come yelling at me now*
typical post for this type of topic, u assume thats the way all pvp'ers act, there are 4 sets of pvp'ers
1) duelers
2) pvpers (op war team warfare)
3) Random pk
3) PKing slf confessed wank shafts
me and vettro fit under 1+2+3
megaman + skuld 4+3
your sterotypical attitude toward "uber pvper's" is typical of the majourite of players, i spent litterally 100's of mills on nc getting my char to where is is today ammo, cs parts armour impalnts and all the other shit you need to level and be more viable in pvp. PPL like me and vettero deserve at least consideration, i know vets attitude is kind of egotistical but maybe he has the right to be becuase hes a good player?
+ alot of ppl that are taking the pvp'ers are bitchs stance in this thread i KNOW are really bad at pvp so i cant take it very seriously, this topic should of been closed inside the first page.
I dont like LE users. Not being able to kill someone is one thing. Not being able to kill someone who is either...
1) Shit talking your clan or you personally for no reason.
2) Spying on your clans/your whereabouts.
3) Attacking a mob you had been working on first and them killing it and looting it.
Is out of order IMO. Issue #1 particuarly bothers me as ive had total cocks shit talk me in the past who keep their LE in. Nothing you can do but ignore them, which is pretty sad really.
Also why can LE users team with non LE users? We used to do a lot of raids on TH. The enemy would team a LE user and have him go around scooping up their dropped belts with zero risk. Exploiting? I think so.
exactly pitspawn, just some of the reasons for either gimping people with le's or removeing them entirely, i understand some people use them legitimately, but others only use them when they have red sl for instance.
3) Attacking a mob you had been working on first and them killing it and looting it.
The vast majority of the losers that do this do not have an LE chip in.
LE users cannot open other people's quickbelts, whether they are teamed or not.
Look, the biggest exploit used by LE users is the spying in OP wars. Since not every clan can afford to lay down a dozen turrets each time, I suggest one simple thing:
The LE should NOT work in warzones!
This way LE people can still level in peace at MB, caves or where-ever. They just have to watch out when entering an OP zone.
But don't put back the penalties on the LE. There are too many LE users who just enjoy the PvM side of the game and don't use any exploits.
Originally posted by Pitspawn
I dont like LE users.
U dont like me now :(
I have my LE in on Pluto still, on my monk there. He's APU, he will die a lot leveling, his belt would end up surrounded by high level mobs, and trying to get it back would be a pain in the arse. I've died countless times leveling, cause I always level till I'm dead, then, when I die, I can just GR into P1, poke myself, get what I need, rince, repeat.
I've no desire to PVP, I've no desire to power level (I turn down offer's to remove my LE so people can PPU for me), I just want to be left to my own devices, to level, without fret of loosing my slotted spell's because I cant heal myself (I'm APU) coz I've only got 7 PPU (gotta have a Tl 3 heal @ least, and with PSI core, what the hey :p)
Funny thing is, with my LE in, I'm leveling a LOT slower, I dont have a slot free to stick in the nice Exp Psi Controler 2, for the +3 to PSI, which with drugs, would let me wear the 95 APU PA, which would level me up quicker. I've chosen to gimp myself this way, if that makes me a bad person, then so be it :p
Helen Angilley
10-09-03, 00:03
Originally posted by Pitspawn
1) Shit talking your clan or you personally for no reason.
2) Spying on your clans/your whereabouts.
3) Attacking a mob you had been working on first and them killing it and looting it.
With the exception of number two, non-LE users can do this to LE users.
Not much of an argument there, hun.
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
Not much of an argument there, hun.
Yes there is. The person who commits any of the 3 points i made without an LE in can be killed by the person they do it to.
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 00:08
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Yes there is. The person who commits any of the 3 points i made without an LE in can be killed by the person they do it to.
Well helen meant that non LE users can do points 1 and 3 to LE users. And also LE users can do it to other LE users.
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Yes there is. The person who commits any of the 3 points i made without an LE in can be killed by the person they do it to.
Unless the person they do it to has an LE in I think was Helen's point. Kinda vice versa of the "I cant do this to LE's!!" becomes "LE's cant do this to me".
Helen Angilley
10-09-03, 00:09
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Yes there is. The person who commits any of the 3 points i made without an LE in can be killed by the person they do it to.
Er, go and read the bit about NON-LE users again.
That great helen! go write a book about it!
Its late, im tired, ive had to much to drink i read it wrong, sue me. Point is still there though TBH.
PvP is an integrated part of neocron, LE's just dont fit in the picture. Theyre put in to keep the people who dont like dieing happy. The majority of LE users use it properly but like everything there is a way to exploit the system. And some LE users are definately doing that.
IMO.....LE a great idea but it will never fit in neocron.
yeah HUN and make sure you spend all your time writeing it becuase its gonna be a best seller........... honest........... :rolleyes:
heres a good idea
maybe le's should only work in certain zones? like hunting and anarchy zones?
Helen Angilley
10-09-03, 00:18
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Its late, im tired, ive had to much to drink i read it wrong, sue me. Point is still there though TBH.
PvP is an integrated part of neocron, LE's just dont fit in the picture. Theyre put in to keep the people who dont like dieing happy. The majority of LE users use it properly but like everything there is a way to exploit the system. And some LE users are definately doing that.
IMO.....LE a great idea but it will never fit in neocron.
The LE has been there from the start of Neocron.
Also quite funny you should say it's "for those who don't like dieing"...it, from past experience, has been the PK'ers (Note: PK'ers, not PVP'ers) who whine, bitch and complain the most when they die.
Plus it's not just LE users that "exploit the system"....:rolleyes:
Jesus fucking christ, the trolls on these forums. You cant say a word without someone manipulating everything you say and turning it against you.
Q`alooaith
10-09-03, 00:21
LE is a PvP switch..
It could have taken the form of a checkbox at char creation, or any other way and there would not be this complaining.
LE as is, should once it's out, be out for good...
that way people who don't want to PvP don't have to, but if they want to PvP they have to stay PvP..
This makes some epics harder, but not impossible with neofrag's help, which should IMHO dissable LE's when you go in...
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 00:22
Whoa Pit relax. :)
IMO Helen is just an aggressive poster, but she does make a good point. And I don't think she has twisted your words. :angel:
I agree with Ql loooaotkoasdoasdohaohdahiosao or whatever his name is, :p.
Perhaps LE should be a one time decision?
You start with le OUT, and you can put it in once but if you take it out that's it no more LE.
buts thats the same as having it in, then taking it out and it vanishes.
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 00:25
Originally posted by ben77890
buts thats the same as having it in, then taking it out and it vanishes.
I meant you can no longer implant an LE period.
LES are neccesary so reasonable people can play the game how they see fit, without some complete wanker "PK'ing" them at random.
back when UT2k3 first came out i got to number 2 in the double domination rankings (for the week number 10 alltime) yeah the stats were fucked but still its a respectable result :p , i bring this up to show that i am by no means an FPS n00b when i say...
PvP in this game relies very little on FPS skill it relies on skill in finding the secret formula for resists and getting a decent rare weapon and also what level you are. the actual aiming part of it is a piece of piss, simply because you have too much time on your hands does not make you "skilled" the test server is to test new stuff not so people can find the perfect setup, allegedly anyway o_O
leave LE users alone, simply because you cannot gank them to make yourself feel big and clever is no need to persecute them ;)
As for spying at op wars, get some gats :rolleyes:
Helen, pitspawn knows more then you ever will about this game, so please STFU. The LE has been in since the start, but it had RESTRICTIONS! Lets forget about being pked. heres another Q. Why should le users get the same benafit as non le users hunting mobs, yet not lose a belt when they die to a grim chaser?
Plz go take thoes drugs u have love so much and knock yourself out so we dont have to hear from you, k HUN?
I see it as the exact opposite... who the hell cares if u have twitch skills? I was great a CS... its all about where you decide to attack, postion yourself how good your speakers are for hearing foot septs, and how fast and acturitly move the mouse and click.
Having a good setup is interligence... you have to have a perfect balance of ims, con setup, weapon, and armor. I sepnt no time on the test server... I test in game. You can just test random ideas, you have to form a good idea for a setup, then test it out. You have to constantly be inovating, you cant ever settle... always must look to improve. And im sorry to disappoint you, but while a gree you dont have to have the twitch skills you need in CS, you need some aiming and dodging skills.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Helen, pitspawn knows more then you ever will about this game, so please STFU. The LE has been in since the start, but it had RESTRICTIONS! Lets forget about being pked. heres another Q. Why should le users get the same benafit as non le users hunting mobs, yet not lose a belt when they die to a grim chaser?
Plz go take thoes drugs u have love so much and knock yourself out so we dont have to hear from you, k HUN?
because the world doesnt revolve around YOU and what YOU want?
these people PAY the same as you to have fun in their own way, if you find that not having enough people to shoot in the back is a problem, go play something else ;)
Heavyporker
10-09-03, 00:36
Vetterox, my respect (little as it was already) diminishes each time you post.
Not everyone wants to spend three weeks in test server pissing around their their resists so they can go wank around on the retail servers and brag about their wangs... Test Server's for testing features and patch changes, not resists.
And why in the nine hells would you want to be "able" to pk everyone that lives on the servers? If the LEs got taken out, they'd most likely stay in Neocron City in the safezones, THEN you'd whine and piss and moan and wail about the copbots and copbotwatched zones and rail about taking them out.
Geesh, leave off and go fight with those that WANTS to fight.
Q`alooaith
10-09-03, 00:46
Leave the LE's alone!
Make the LE an item that can not be implanted, so once removed, you would be without it forever..
this Mean's people with LE's can do whatever still, but limits them, since they can not take it out anymore..
this helps LE players, since no more capped Red SL people jamming their LE's back in so they can get SL.. So no more bad name from that..
This also makes the LE a one time choice, you can be PvP, or not PvP..
Dissable LE's in neofrag, then people with LE's can see what PvP is like without going PvP
But LE's can have any other changes, since there are some right assholes that will kill even a 0/2 straight from MC5...
So leave LE's alone, but make it a one time choice, no more LE in, LE out, LE in, LE out.. ect..
Then the removal time could be cut in half..
Though putting LE's back in was allowed so people could try out PvP, and aslo so they'd be able to go back to Non-PvP...
But nothing else is needed to fix the LE, nothing..
Yea they can still stand around and you can't kill them, but that don't matter, since they can't kill you either.
Originally posted by VetteroX
yes, you got me. It must have been a 3/3 carrying that holy lightning i hacked... or yes, i belive there was a 5/5 killing roaches with a fire apoc... killed him too, hacked that out of the belt. Please dont forget that all the 101st CM are under the rank of 10/10, and swarm me when I go pking there... man they finnaly brought me down with their pinfire nailguns.
Fact is, ill kill afew low levels. 1 min later, they are on their capped alt and comming for me. and, ill take down a lot of capped people before the damn apu/ppu combo finnaly shows up and drive me out or kills me.
Oh, shut up. First you take a pump to the balloon that is your ego and inflate it to bursting point, then you whine because you can't kill someone with an LE? Well remember this, they can't kill you either, so run away; it's not that hard to do with all the warping and lag that exists in this game, and anyone who is high-level (meaning they could probably give chase) would be gimping themselves with an LE.
An APU is mincemeat by themselves if you have any skill at PvP whatsoever (which judging by the way you talk about yourself, you could take 5 GMs down whilst on the toilet, so an APU can't be hard), so don't boast about it. Fire Apoc? Woo! One of the most crap APU rares in existence.
Yes, all of 101st have ranks of 10/10. Obviously, with my rank of 51/62 or so, I must not be in 101st, eh? You get swarmed, because we are trying to get rid of PKers as quickly as possible, not give them a fair fight after they kill all the half-health new players up at the bunker. How can you kill someone a quarter of your rank, then expect us to give you a completely fair fight? We're not going to line up and duel you one by one... and I thought you could take down a Tank and 2 PEs? :rolleyes:
Take your whining and your ego elsewhere, it's hardly productive.
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 00:48
Apu may be weak alone, but apu/ppu who know what their doing are lethal as hell.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
:lol:
I don't think the LE should have any penalties, especially since like .5% of the people in the game use it.
The LE DOES have a penalty. It takes up a slot in your head. Thats quite a big problem
CRAIG DIGGERS
10-09-03, 00:49
Originally posted by Drake6k
I dont think the LE should work outside the neocron city.
Ever played droner ? no...
you see 2 red screens and can chose the genrep
BEFORE you start anything about taking LE out and never put in again:
Fix the sanctum bugs with LE ( they don't work)
Fix the soulcluster bug with LE;)
But maybe better REMOVE the ppu as shadow dancers stupid link.
I didn't spend a lot of time to level a ppu and get no exp alone for read this such a bullshit.
KK WANTED the PPU's to support ALL the players.
Shadow Dancer
10-09-03, 00:52
Originally posted by flyjedi
The LE DOES have a penalty. It takes up a slot in your head. Thats quite a big problem
Helen Angilley
10-09-03, 00:52
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Jesus fucking christ, the trolls on these forums. You cant say a word without someone manipulating everything you say and turning it against you.
Nor can I say a word without someone like you acting all defensive, getting hissy and starting to rant about how everyone is flaming them. :p
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
Nor can I say a word without someone like you acting all defensive, getting hissy and starting to rant about how everyone is flaming them. :p
touché lol
As was said, LE's shouldn't work outside the city, and non-city factions shouldn't be allowed to use LE's (because the Law Enforcers were Reza's gift to his loyal subjects, remember? =DD).
By going outside the city, you acknowledge that life is dangerous, and you're taking chances in more ways than one. If you don't want to get killed by others; you can stay within the relitive safety of the cities gates, or you can make social contacts... I don't have the problem of getting PK'd all the time, and I'm a spy with probably the shittiest con setup ever. I'm polite and try to be peaceful with people, because of that my deathrate is... low.
Anyway, a person can get up to rank 50 while staying in the confines of the City, that's not a problem. They can't get rares, (which of course, is now ever so important.) but thats a different story (which would be sorted if Lupus's weapon changes get pushed through)
LE's are for new characters, older stronger characters shouldn't be able to hide behind them, especially when social interraction can perhaps prevent recurrant death.
And if you're going to cause problems, at least be big enough to stand behind what you say, instead of pulling "the Geraldo (http://www.foxnews.com/images/41139/7_42_100_bio_geraldorivera.jpg) routine"
There seem to be several people in this thread that have so much balls they could do with some of these
www.bumpernuts.com
SigmaDraconis
10-09-03, 09:33
Remove them..make an LE server :P
Originally posted by VetteroX
Nobody should have the right to run around do whatever the hell they want and not be pked.
Or maybe no one should have the right to just go around an PK?
Planetside is your friend - it has loads of people just like you, they just PK all day long, often you dont even have to be a member of another faction, and best of all (in your case) theres no RP - way to go! Sure theres a story in the background which gives you a reason/excuse to just keep blowing all the other guys away. No safe zones, no LE, sounds just perfect
So why are you still here?
Just an FYI, putting the leveling penalties back on the LE chip, won;t do anything to curb spying. A spy doesn't need to be that high of a level to "spy".
Originally posted by hivemind
LE users should stay the fuck in carebear land and frolic in the fuckin sunflowers - AND OUT OF THE REAL PLAYER'S WAY!
Agreed.
Originally posted by hivemind
LE users should stay the fuck in carebear land and frolic in the fuckin sunflowers - AND OUT OF THE REAL PLAYER'S WAY!
Of course it could be equally said that
PKers should stay the fuck in Counterstrike/BF1942/Planetside and mindlessly kick the shit out of each other over and over - AND OUT OF THE MMORPG PLAYER'S WAY!
Originally posted by Pitspawn
PvP is an integrated part of neocron, LE's just dont fit in the picture. Theyre put in to keep the people who dont like dieing happy. The majority of LE users use it properly but like everything there is a way to exploit the system. And some LE users are definately doing that.
IMO.....LE a great idea but it will never fit in neocron.
Agreed, LE and Neocron dont fit. But as long assholes are among the player base (and they always will be) so the player base of this game isnt all reasonable people, the LE is necessary. There is basically no way around it. Most people dont see a point in killing a low level runner, but some do it. As long as these few do, we (actually KK, not we) either accept a loss of players or the LE...
Disturbed021
10-09-03, 18:22
Originally posted by Heavyporker
Geesh, leave off and go fight with those that WANTS to fight.
Amen! That's were the challenge would be anyways.
Some ppl just don't understand that some ppl just want to play a RPG to RP and not to get their low level character raped by some wanker on an Ego trip. "I r 1337! I keeld him in 3 shots. I r uber!"
This is NOT a FPS. ppl do NOT have to engage in PvP. This is a MMORPG with a FPS interface.
As far as the whole LE spying thing, deal with it, there are ways to exploit everything and putting back exp loss does nothing to prevent spying.
I liked Q's idea of picking to be a non-PvP character in the Character creation screen and once you pick that you cannot switch back an forth.
Xian... too dumb for sarcasm huh? I was responding to helen saying i only PK newbs. I killed caspped people too, and everytime i kill at MB bare minimum 20 capped CM come out, because they are too afraid to fight with even numbers. I was simply stating i kill plenty of capped people, and kil the occasinal low level if i cant find a high level, because that will bait a high level into comming... garenteed.
Q`alooaith
10-09-03, 18:31
Originally posted by Disturbed021
I liked Q's idea of picking to be a non-PvP character in the Character creation screen and once you pick that you cannot switch back an forth.
I also suggested that everyone still start with an LE, but once they take it out.. well it's out for good.
this stops people from PKing then running away and LEing untill they fix their SL..
The reason everyone starts with an LE, if any of you people had played from MC5, and talked to some of the NPC's there, is that you've been captured, and the chip implanted, and then brainwhiped, then brainwashed, now depending on faction, your either brainwashed by CA and they tell you it's a medical Centre and they've helped you.
Or you get brainwashed by TG/DoY who tell you that it's a CA brainwashing centre and they've prevented you getting a dose of rezza lovin', but they have put in the TG/DoY lovin' in instead, which they don't tell you..
Ooop's spoiled another story, both sides are brainwashing you, but the LE is put in before they brainwash you..
Disturbed021
10-09-03, 18:48
As long as it can't be knocked out when you die (dunno if it can or not) then ya I'd be all for that. Easy to implement.
OK, TBA,
People are strange
No two people have truely the same opinion, yes they may co-exist side by side for a while but only a while (without a little conditioning thrown in)
Would all you uber pvp be complaining about the evil le'rs (after all they must make up 5% of the population now) if the server population was 5 times it is now?
Now I just put my Le back into one of my char's (lowish lvl) the other 3 dont.
PvP'r does not equal mad killer
but
LE does not equal exploiter either.
Now there are three reasons why my le is in:
1. So I can get all the gr's. Not good RP I admit, but I do so love running wasteland and since the gr changes, getting shot cos I'm a townie is real anoying. ( I play on a server where 90% of the gr's are owned by non-city clans ). It also makes a change from the mind numbing treadmill.
2. Red is Dead wunderkins at MB bunker. (since I dont believe in loging my capped char to reap my rewenge)
3. Team killers, this one real suxx. Get some neutral team you then gun you down for your belt, possibly the best RP I have ever seen that one (must be an InSaNe KiLlA type). Sinced its happened 3 times this weekend the le went in late monday night.
I've been Roleplaying for nearly 25 years now (ouch) in many different places / games / ideas (table-top, Live Action, Free-Form etc. etc. etc. played em, run em even made my living out of a "hard contact" live action for a while)
I during that time I have played precisely one MMORPG - Neocron.
I originally came to this game because I loved the Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, fallout genre.
I came with I hope an open mind, wanting to be wowed and wooed.
And for a while I was, until I lifted the carpet and took a good look at what was underneath.
Now having played this game for 8 months this is my conclusion.
1. - NC = Skill based FPS with a veneer of RP (umm make that a small stain in the corner). It is NOT NOT NOT an RPG.
2. - I suxx at PvP (lol) I have I think won precisely half a fight in the last 8 months (we both died lol).
3. True consistant RP is probably impossible within NC unless the community support it. The only server where this seems to happen is on the Jupiter (wish I could speak German <sigh>).
4. - Specialisation is killing the fun. The mechanics of any RPG (CRPG and a lot of table-top as well) are always open to the min / max brigade, but when it becomes a requirement to run the cookie cutter route in order to compete... (yeah I know some people are pvp gods and could pillage a village solo).
5. - KK should have spent the last 8 months concentrating on fixing bugs / balancing etc. But also to spent a large effort on the storyline / RP side. Things in the last month or so are improving. (I even saw an RP event the other week!!). Not DOY.
6. - 99% of the "roleplay" I have incountered is the RED is DEAD. or the I'm a "InSaNe KiLla" (except I'm not when I want something), or I'm bored or the cos I want too. Very very few true freedom fighter.
Some people make a real effort most dont, mainly because there fun lies in other places and KK have not pushed the RP side of there game.
Now I know I've only capped 1 character, never been in an op-war or involved in a high population clan, but I have to say this:
NC must have an LE or (equivolent and imho unrestricted) for the game to survive. It cannot just cater to the FPS attack bunnies.
After all there is more to life than mindless violence, even in Neocron (didnt you get enough killing while leveling? I got enough to make my eyes bleed)
regards,
Kain
"thats Mister Green to you"
-oooohhh was any of that on topic at all ?? LOL
i agree with marx , LE's shouldnt work outside of NC city, and TG and crahn shouldnt start with a LE bcuz they are agaisnt CA...
also CA should start hunting u after your LE starts to glow red. and if you think differently you are called a Runner, and everyone now called runner will be called Greens, Yellows or Reds.
and there should be a place called Carnival where you go if you do not want to Run, where everyone goes to see you killed.
I really find it amusing to read the teeth-gnashing, soul twisting frustration expressed in the posts complaining about LE users. The fact that these "pvp gods" can't just kill every newbie and lower rank person that they encounter is apparently driving them insane.
OTOH, you don't hear about these people playing any real PvP games where there are no newbs to kill, do you? One could surmise that they wouldn't last 3 minutes in PlanetSide or a regular FPS game where there are no weaker players to prey upon.
Actually for the week long trial I liked planetside. Of course I couldn't kill anyone because my computer doesn't even technically meet the minumum requirments, and as soon as there were more than 1 other person on screen, or any time somebody fired, it became PlanetSlideShow :D .
Q`alooaith
10-09-03, 23:45
Originally posted by Shujin
i agree with marx , LE's shouldnt work outside of NC city, and TG and crahn shouldnt start with a LE bcuz they are agaisnt CA...
also CA should start hunting u after your LE starts to glow red. and if you think differently you are called a Runner, and everyone now called runner will be called Greens, Yellows or Reds.
and there should be a place called Carnival where you go if you do not want to Run, where everyone goes to see you killed.
I don't know whats worse, hearing a suggestion like that, or knowing where the refrence comes from..
BTW, Green, child, young years, Blue Reproductive years, Red, old age(40 or was it 50?) and you goto die....
Can't rember much, but then you had people who got out and that dissabled their chips..
anyway.. LE's should be in everyone, because, everyone starts at MC5, and in MC5 they put the LE in as a bridge for the brainwashing..
LE is in everyone, there is no choice to LE at first, you are violated, you can remove it or no..
5150 or whatever... the same can be applied to you. Why dont you go play tghe sims online? No pking there, you can just sit and chat and have tea time like a little wuss. Neocron is a damn dangeous post apocaliptic world! if you can kill someone else and hack the belt for an item, thats called killing for survival. Nobody should be immune to danger. If you wanna be safe, stay huddled under a copbots legs, and have fun. The real players can go out, fight each other, and always be ready to fight, because its a danerous world, not carebear paradise.
Helen Angilley
11-09-03, 00:07
Originally posted by VetteroX
5150 or whatever... the same can be applied to you. Why dont you go play tghe sims online?
Why don't you go play Planetside? Nothing _but_ PK'ing there.
Heavyporker
11-09-03, 00:08
*Heavyporker stares at Vettero's scrawny frame wetted by the spittle flying from the slit that passes for lips as he railed incoherently about whatever passed for thoughts in his malformed skull, and shakes his head, pitying the confused beast. Heavyporker knew of what this sad fallen creature was, it had attained somewhat of an infamous reputation for attemping to kill everything and anything that could be killed in his path. Vettero's offputting odor hung around him like a specter, a reminder to all about his long hours spent sleeping in the sewers, feeding off the rats because no one had enough pity to throw any creds for the creature called Vettero to buy food with. Heavyporker serenely walked by the gnashing creature, secure in the knowledge that the copbots stationed nearby the sewers would euthanize the creature if it acted up against the lawful citizens of Neocron City.*
Gotterdammerung
11-09-03, 00:21
Keep this thread clean and civil from this point on. There are alternative forums where people can flame away at each other, this is not one of them.
Originally posted by Gotterdammerung
There alternative forums where people can flame away at each other, this is not one of them.
There are? :D
Welcome, btw.
Do you have a banhammer? Thought not. ;)
Originally posted by HellHound
Do you have a banhammer? Thought not. ;)
*waits for people to ask what his name means* :lol:
Helen Angilley
11-09-03, 00:25
Originally posted by HellHound
There are? :D
Welcome, btw.
Do you have a banhammer? Thought not. ;)
Good Lord....Gotteradammerung? Geh? o_O
Ah well, he reminds me of myself when I first started Modding. :p
Good luck with the job, hun, you have some pretty high standards to keep to nowadays.
So, Nid has the banhammer for regular everyday use.....
What possible forum offences could warrant the twilight of the gods? :eek:
Originally posted by Ulle
*waits for people to ask what his name means* :lol:
Hi Ulle,
what does his name mean? lol :angel:
Heavyporker
11-09-03, 00:30
Isn't gotterdammerung something like doomsday for the norsies?
It means "end of the world" according to my encyclopedia of the Gods.
Although twilight of the gods has been said before....i think for it to be twilight of the gods it needs some umlauts. ie. Götterdämmerung
Shadow Dancer
11-09-03, 00:33
Isn't Gotterdamerung a unique helmet in Diablo 1?
:D
Gotterdammerung
11-09-03, 00:35
Not doomsday for the norse, maybe just doomsday for spam.
Stay on topic please.
N
P.S. Heh, I still got it. :p
Originally posted by Nidhogg
Stay on topic please.
If we must, but then how about a new thread where we all take the piss out of.... er, I mean say hello to our new moderator?
Alright, alright... just another 10 mins till I finish downloading, then I can stop spamming the forums. For tonight.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Isn't Gotterdamerung a unique helmet in Diablo 1?
:D
unique in diablo... psshaaaahahahahha ;P everytinh in every diablo, 1 and 2 is a dupe or trainer gained
*Heavyporker waits for people to laugh and appluad his post... nobody does. A mod tells him to plz add something to the topic or stfu. Vet remebers the time he threatens to kill heavyporker for attempting to outbid him on a speed gun. Heavyporker begs the auctioner to please calm things down, he doesnt want trouble. The autioner tells vet he has 2 speed guns and will sell the speedgun to vet for 1 million cr as agreed before heavyporker butted in. Vet thx the auctioner and suggests he still pretends to bid for the other gatlin, to milk heavyporker. Auctioner agrees, heavyporker is milked of a lot of cash. Vet and auctioner laugh. Heavyporker again asks, hoping he will get no trouble from me, shivering as he asks.
Not a bashing or insult, just a 100% true story, unlike the failed sad attempt at humor a few posts ago.
Now, for why I dont play planetside: As described before, to many people like helen, I like neocrons combat system. I dont like being the same as every tom, dick, and harry in the game. NC lets me customise a character into an ultra efficent killing machine, instead of just another solder. Neocrons design was intended for you to level on mobs, then get engaged in pvp, weather for ops or whatever. this is why we have different, waring factions. If you dont want to participae in NC story, which is, war, war, war, war and war, then you can go play the sims and see if a you can make a 12 year old give you a vertual date. Maybe you can even bake a cake too.
Its really pathetic that some people can be selfish enough to think that if something in the game doesnt suit them, then everyone else should be denied it.
I dont like that I cant use pistols/rifles/cannon's. I demand they all should incur penalties to those who use them, so it stops annoying me. Not exactly a reasonable request is it. Funny how it more or less equates to what you want.
Why the hell should LE users be punished because you dont like the idea of LE's? LE users cant harm you. LE users cant hack your belt when you die. LE users only get team XP off other LE users, who are mostly noobs anyways.LE users dont have the luxury of getting rezzed when we die. LE users dont have the protection and resources of a clan. LE users dont reap the rewards of ops. All LE users can do is explore, tradeskill, take on missions and kill mobs. So they dont want to participate in PvP. Big fucking deal! Who are you to deny them the ability to play the game they wish to play it? So there are a few arses who use the LE for more dubious reasons. So what. It isnt fair to punish all LE users over a few twats.
Stop being so bloddy selfish and go back to massaging your ego, safe in the knowledge the LE users can have no ill effect on you whatsoever in the game.
you get the same xp, same cash, and yet you dont get the punishment non le MOB hunters get for dieing... dropping a belt on death. Plus there ARE some people who exploit the LE. In the old days, LE had penaties, bring them back. If you want to be invonerable and die without penaty, there has to be a negtive that non le MOB hunters dont get... they are brave enough to stick their necks out, so why should cowards like you get the same things they do?
- agree.
refer back to my other post thats lost somewhere in the "OMG LOL VET SUX" argument for m' opinion.
;)
I know. There are a few real players among the screaming carebears hehe. I know theres plenty of good players i'm on good terms with... these are people I want to play with. I have tradskiller freinds to poke, res, repair, cost. So I really care less if I anger a few mindless newbies. :)
Psh. Oh so everyone that uses an LE has to be a noobie:rolleyes:
Stop talking out your ass, and go away untill Neptune comes, and then you can have your happy PvP paradise that all of 20 people will play in.
I love your attitude that anyone who disagrees with you is a wuss and stupid, that's gonna get you so many friends. And I know that someone always harps on this, but could you possibly stop mauling the English language?:rolleyes:
Oh, and keep telling people to go play the Sims, and we'll keep telling you to go play PlanetSide. See the correlation here(ooo a big word!)? So you're just going to have to accept that there are people who totally disagree with you and aren't retards because of the fact, or SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Originally posted by VetteroX
[BNow, for why I dont play planetside: As described before, to many people like helen, I like neocrons combat system. I dont like being the same as every tom, dick, and harry in the game. NC lets me customise a character into an ultra efficent killing machine, instead of just another solder. Neocrons design was intended for you to level on mobs, then get engaged in pvp, weather for ops or whatever. this is why we have different, waring factions. If you dont want to participae in NC story, which is, war, war, war, war and war, then you can go play the sims and see if a you can make a 12 year old give you a vertual date. Maybe you can even bake a cake too. [/B]
Vetto or whatever...
My previous post was simply an attempt to illustrate that there is a diametrically opposed argument to yours that is equally valid.
You tell the carebears to go away and they can just as easily tell you to go away - the difference? Well you value your opinion and not theirs and they are of course the opposite.
Short version: You are not going to get anywhere with approach.
Having said that, I was hoping you'd rise to the Planetside question and you did.
You dont like being the same as everyone else - in short you dont like it _fair_. All FPS' have one thing in common, the character types are predetermined and balanced for a _fair_ game (assuming equal number of players per side).
You my friend have confirmed what I always suspect of your type - you only want to play games where a powerlevelling approach and more time to throw at the game (still at school are we?) give you a massive and automatic advantage over everyone else.
At that point skill and equipment become irrlevant, the sheer number of hit points and the ability to use better weapons (through both skill and cash) make it a one sided fight between you and anyone lower than you.
Please dont try to deny this, you've dug yourself a big enough hole in this thread already by admiting you gank low levels "to try and bring a high level alt out" and the fact that you want open season on any inhabitant of the game regardless of it they want to PvP or are even of an equivalent rank to you shows your true colours
If Neocrons story is just 'war war war' then why bother with a story at all? Why bother with anything in the magazine that doesnt relate to one faction beating the hell out of another - just do as planetside did and give an underlying reason why the factions are at each other throats and let the players loose - why have a multitude of city factions all with slightly different goals, agendas and allies, why have safe zones or the LE at all? Any fool can see that these things indicate that the game is much more than PvP.
Neocron is _not_ a PvP game (god this argument is old) it is a MMORPG with a FPS interface, christ AO by your argument is more a PvP game than Neocron (2 factions, hate each other, GO!) and has had less story development since release, you can get to be different than anyone and while there are safezones theres no LE chip when your not in one - so why are you still here, going to complain about point and click combat?
You have the wrong impression of Neocron, you have no tolarance for different opinions, you place far too much value on your own opinion and you have some social issues if beating up on people with _zero_ chance of fighting back give you a thrill (and I really dont buy this 'high level response crap'). In shot _you_ is whats wrong with the game and what is slowly killing it.
Why do the PvP crowd seem to think that every MMORPG that comes out should cater to their wishes at the expense of other play styles? Its not like your play style isnt catered for in countless online FPS' (and Planetside even gives you a persistant one). But no, every new games forums are filled with the cries of PvP players moaning about this that or the other - why dont you guys shut the hell up for once, go play a proper online FPS PvP game and let the other players enjoy the RPG in MMORPG!
Your inability to restrain yourselve will _always_ result in limitations on what you can do and who you can attack - if you dont like this go play a game that doesnt have them - theres a reason we have them here and a reason you wont find them there!
SpAcEDoUbT
11-09-03, 16:30
The postee above has hit the nail on the head.
You have no knowlege of neocron... its not about being higher level. Its about building a better character. Lets say, we gave you a capped char, whith all the skill points free. Im assuming that you couldnt make a strong fighter if your life depended on it. I play this game for 1) fighting and 2) the character building. I can build great cahracters, and I can easily beat the vast majority of capped characters. Nobody helped me build my chars, I read no guide, I did it all on my own. I have earned a great character through effort.... and I am going to use this char, whos only purpose in neocron is to fight, to kill as many people as humanly possible.
Most people do agree that LE users are wimps, if you go around, most people have the LE out. Even when I was leveling my new char, at least 1/2 of the people who were 0/2 - 6/6 or so had the LE out.
And lastly, none of you have answered yet, why do you deserved to not lose a belt to mobs while players without les do? They face the danger, so why not recieve benafits you dont, other then having an extra head slot for an implant?
I work 8 hours a day btw.... out of school. if you play and stop chatting in plaza all day, you can do a whole hell of a lot in NC even if you work 40 hours a week.
And the "you mispelled some words" bullshit is really old... i am a poor typist and i dont go back and check, this isnt a an english paper... everyone can read what im writing, i couldnt care less if my i's are capitalized and i miss spell some works. Weather you like it or not, neocron IS suppost to be pvp... theres lots of other aspects as well, trade skilling, roleplaying, hunting, getting wealthy, but, I do belive the game was envisioned for people to join a clan and do something to aid fighting. I have been here a while, I remeber when the LE had big penalties. Too many babies cried, and unfortunetly, not enough real players came on the boards to protest it... we were busy playing, not whining.
Originally posted by VetteroX
You have no knowlege of neocron... its not about being higher level. Its about building a better character. Lets say, we gave you a capped char, whith all the skill points free. Im assuming that you couldnt make a strong fighter if your life depended on it. I play this game for 1) fighting and 2) the character building. I can build great cahracters, and I can easily beat the vast majority of capped characters. Nobody helped me build my chars, I read no guide, I did it all on my own. I have earned a great character through effort.... and I am going to use this char, whos only purpose in neocron is to fight, to kill as many people as humanly possible.
Most people do agree that LE users are wimps, if you go around, most people have the LE out. Even when I was leveling my new char, at least 1/2 of the people who were 0/2 - 6/6 or so had the LE out.
And lastly, none of you have answered yet, why do you deserved to not lose a belt to mobs while players without les do? They face the danger, so why not recieve benafits you dont, other then having an extra head slot for an implant?
If you gave me a capped character I would configure it to my playstyle (I'd be able to use all vehicles for a start as I'm NEXT). Thats isnt PvP to the exclusion of all else so I guess I fail by your judgement (good job I dont care about your judgement)
Its intertsting you dont try to discredit my oberservations about you and your playstyle in fact "I am going to use this char, whos only purpose in neocron is to fight, to kill as many people as humanly possible." only proves me more right.
Let me answer your question. Lets say your character could die permanently if killed (no GR) so all your hard work could be over in the click of a mouse.
I bet you'd be pretty pissed if you lost all that hard work would you?
Just because _you_ dont value getting a new gun, or new armour particularly highly (maybe its because the amount of time you throw at the game makes such a thing a trivial occurance) doesnt mean that new gun is trivial for someone else - someone with much less time to play may take weeks to get to a point where they can afford to buy a new gun and get the skills to use it - to take that away from them when they die (possibly within minutes) will only ever be a negative experience - no good will come of it for that player, and they are likely to start wondering why they bother
THAT is why you are seeing more and more people with the LE in, THAT is why you are seeing less and less new players in the game. YOU may be having fun mindlessly killing everyone you see and looting the belts but THEY are not having fun simply being target practice for your pittiful existance.
You my friend really really REALLY should be playing another game.
SpAcEDoUbT
11-09-03, 17:29
Because by using the LE they are saying they DONT want to be involved in PVP, they DONT want to be shot in the back by a capped tank/spy/pe while levelling in one of the hunting grounds.
However they DO want to have fun, but NOT at the expense of others.
This aint CS, this aint NS, this aint HL, this aint PS..
MMORPG with FPS style..
It just has an fps interface.
You dont like being the same as everyone else - in short you dont like it _fair_. All FPS' have one thing in common, the character types are predetermined and balanced for a _fair_ game (assuming equal number of players per side).
As a long time PvP player, I really prefer to be in fair, challenging fights. NC PvP players are obviously a different breed, given that most of them seem to be obsessed with shooting lower level characters and those who don't want to participate in PvP. The other odd thing is how many of the PvPers here seem to think that they are special, or "have what it takes" because the like NC PvP (here is a hint: playing PvP video games does not mean you are a tough guy in real life, despite your obvious desperate belief to the contrary).
The real funny aspect is that the general PvP/FPS players view is that NC PvPers are skill-less wankers that need a level based game so they can find weaker opponents. Go drop in on a normal FPS server and tell everyone you are a NC PvPer and they will laugh at you (and probably call you very rude but funny names).
When I tell NC PvP players to go play PlanetSide I am not jerking their chain. The game offers stand up fights and you can build up a character as well. I think that if people here try a fair and challenging PvP game they might like it.
Ill say it again.... I fight, and duel people my own fucking rank very often. Let me show you my average pk day: GR to TH, look for people to kill. Pass by a low level, leave him alone... for now. Check each section, can't fight a high level. Go back, kill low level. low level screams for help on faction. I wait. A capped pe comes. I kill him. A capped apu come. I kill him. Another capped apu. I kill him. A capped pe and tank. I kill them both. Time passes. An apu, tank, two pes, and ppu come. I leave or am killed. Whats wrong with that?
I can beat 99.9% of CAPPED please not, CAPPED people in this game, because i have built my charater very well... i also have decent dodge/aim/tactics skills. ex, if theres 2 guys on me, position myself so one enemy is constantly blocking the others shot at me. I can have an advantage over others because i EARNED an advantage... I have built a superior char to others... he is not higherlevel, he is better built... ex, avg pvp pe can take 8 CS hits. I take 12 - 13 cs hits... are you getting this YET?
I played CS a lot, I was good. But at the end of the day, it doesnt matter. In neocron, I may have a new rare at the end of the day, its a persistant world. Do you get it yet?
Some people LIKE it when i rade th, mb, tg. it gives them something to do besides hunting warbots, comming to defend home turf. Yes, maybe it sucks for the first person who has the back of their skull blown in, but its fun for the 5, 10, 15 people who come to avenge that person.
and again ANSWER MY DAMN QUESTION TO YOU: Why do you get no penalty dieing to mobs when people without LEs die to mobs DO get a penalty? how is that fair? If you want to be invonerable, there should be more of a tradeoff, ex, 10% higher req for weapons and armor and 20% less xp after say level 40.
some people just don't like to PVP, you shouldn't force them into PVPing by making LE's have penalties. It's already bad enough that they can't be healed by others if they have an LE in. I don't think it should be done.
and again ANSWER MY DAMN QUESTION TO YOU: Why do you get no penalty dieing to mobs when people without LEs die to mobs DO get a penalty? how is that fair?
It's fair because you can run around harvesting items off of weaker player characters and someone with an LE cannot. That should have been obvious.
It's called Risk vs Reward.
Reasons:
We don't have PPUs to heal during fights and to resurrect us when we die. If we die, that's it, it's back to the GR to go find a poker and get your crap fixed. We do pay a penalty, while there's no PvP, there's also very little support from others as well, I've seen maybe one pure PPU with his LE in, and that didn't last long. The nature of being PPU isn't very conducive to wearing an LE, you have to be able to affect others, for good or ill. And from a coding/game mechanics perspective, it doesn't work. When you have an LE in, you can't open belts period. Not even your own. So if you die, pop you LE in and go back for your belt, guess what? You can't open it.
We face different risks, when you're LEd, you're essentially perpetually alone. So while you can go kill fire mobs with PPU support, and not have to care about getting hit, we pretty much have to solo that Grim Chaser, no outside support, aside from others damaging it. Try being an LEd pure APU, now that's a challenge. Thankfully my tank is to the point I can solo Warbots/Titans, and mange to survive if I have cover, because I can't get any of that tender loving PPU care. I'm not complaining about that fact, I'm just attempting to illustrate the situation for you.
Why do LE's bother you so much ?
Just ignore them & get on with playing how you want to play and not trying to make everone else play how you want.
How you play this game is of no concern to me so stop telling me how great you are & how I play ingame is NONE of your business so stop trying to change the way I play.
If I wanted to concentrate on PvP i sure as hell would'nt be playing Neocron. I suggest you just shut up until HalfLife 2 comes out & then leave. kthanxbye
I believe he said in his first post - its one thing to stop low levels being ganked - another when ppl use it for reasons like spying.
When penalties were taken off le's - they were supposed to not be re-implantable so that the "peaceful types" as MJS calls em CAN play but the PvP types who are just using it to have godmode on for a while cannot abuse it. For some reason they couldnt do this and so its nothing to do with non PvP players - its something that is being used for reasons that it was not intended for.
So no need to rise to it all and start telling ppl to go play other games - the people who are doing this - according to u lot - also belong in some other "mindless fps" they are just the more lame types and dont mind abusing the system - for that reason- Le's should not be re-implantable after a certain level - as was originally intented.
Sunab_Naverith
12-09-03, 07:55
Originally posted by Pitspawn
I dont like LE users. Not being able to kill someone is one thing. Not being able to kill someone who is either...
1) Shit talking your clan or you personally for no reason.
2) Spying on your clans/your whereabouts.
3) Attacking a mob you had been working on first and them killing it and looting it.
Is out of order IMO. Issue #1 particuarly bothers me as ive had total cocks shit talk me in the past who keep their LE in. Nothing you can do but ignore them, which is pretty sad really.
Also why can LE users team with non LE users? We used to do a lot of raids on TH. The enemy would team a LE user and have him go around scooping up their dropped belts with zero risk. Exploiting? I think so.
*Edit-ok, read all the pages now.*
A LE user CANNOT access other belts. Period. LE users can HACK the belts, but are COMPLETELY incapable of actually accessing the belts. Go ahead if you don't believe me, try it. I have, many times after some shit-fer-brains pker is fucking with me and I call a friend in to gank him in the back while he is shit talking me. Then I successfully hack his belt (cuz s/he is waaay negative SL) and it says how LE users are not allowed access to quickbelts!
So I find little logic in that last statement.
As for the first one, yes, sadly enough, it is very true. Too many shit talkers out there with there invinci-shields up spying/screaming at their friends enemies.
-----------------------------------------------
The main reason I have a LE chip in, is cuz I spend so DAMN little time in Neocron playing. You may say, play more/shut up/blah-blah, etc. Point is, I was part of the nastiest PK clan (ok, ok, most PUBLICIZED pk clan) , Malevolent Crackheads. I have had my fair share of PvP and PKing, on both ends of the chain. I was tired of spending upwards of 2 weeks acquiring a rare/new item, only to lose it by being ganked in the back just cuz I was TG/MC. I popped in my LE chip, and what do I get? Comments and actions that would make your blood boil in sheer rage. I finally got sooo damn pissed off by someone calling me a nancy boy, spineless monkey (I am a psi monk BTW), and other derogatory names, I pulled my LE and fried his ENTIRE clan (29 some people) {this was when hybrids WERE overpowered :p } , then warned him to never piss me off again.
Since then, I have had my LE in so I can solo lvl, because no-one I know is on during the times I am, so I can't just say,"Hey Joe, go grab my belt woulda? Oh, its over there being guarded by NDA at CRP, oh wait, its also over in J_11 being watched over by DoY bots". As for restrictions, jesu christus! Vet, you must be freakin' INSANE to not see the restrictions we have:
1) Reduced EXP gain (YES it is true)
2) ZERO team support capable (short of other LE users)
3) Reduced Cash gain.
4) One less brain slot.
5) Becoming jack-of-all-trades just so we CAN be solo.
6) GR list is MASSIVELY limited because we cannot clan.
7) And we cannot join any form of a clan.
So you see, adding the original concept of restrictions/skill increase for wearing LE chip is ASININE. I can guaran-fu@#ing-tee you the day they increase the restrictions even MORE, is they day I cancel. No clue about how many other people may.
I am getting extremely overrun by all these egotistical PKing snobs who get on these forums and complain about the way I play MY game. If I exploit, and you see it, report it. I will do the same. If you see me play the game a way you don't like, but it ISN'T against the rules, go cry in you corner with all your other powerleveling buddies. I'm tired of you snobs Lording over us LE users simply because we won't stoop to your level of being random PKers.
Now, I know there are quite a few people who do not random PK, but I am addressing the Random PKers, hell the PKers in general, NOT THE PvPERS!!
Sorry for ranting like this, so heres the short of the long:
If you don't like LE's, either SHUT THE HELL UP, and play the game, or LEAVE.
If you like LE's, ignore the ignoramous's comments regarding your chosen lifestyle, and make a reeeaaalll long list of targets for your local killers-for-hire clan :p .
P.S. - have fun flaming me, I don't care.
Verro I answered your question on my last post on page 8 - pretty obvious that either youre not reading the post or youre just not understanding it (you can take youre pick here)
I dont care how you try to justfy the PKing of low levels - the fact remains you do it.
You have no concept of the grief you are causing that particular player, no idea how much of a setback his death may be at that point in time, and no idea how many other higher runners have killed him this play session. ALL you are intersted in is trying to provoke a response from which you can derive your fun (isnt that the text book definition of a griefer) - Jesus you're not even killing an enemy runner neccessarily so dont even pretend that its all in the name of RP (and we all know thats a bullshit excuse at the best of times for players like you)
and by your own admission its not a simple case of 'PUT YOUR LE BACK IN NOOB' because, according to you 'No one has a right to walk around and do what they want without being PKed' (or somthing very similar)
Bottom line: The LE is _still_ too restrictive as it currently stands (in that its not a 100% viable way to play the game to the fullest barring PvP) and your conduct and the conduct of people like you will ALWAYS means that games end up with PvP restrictions. I _PRAY_ you never get your idea implimented, youd be the only one having fun......but not for too long once you'd driven all the 'normal' players away and its only you and a few other hardcases left on the server
I guess you'd be here screaming about the lack of players then - and looking at your recent MC5 thread (which I will say did hve some very good and valid points) maybe you've already started?
I'd agree to the idea of a one-time implant LE, but only if LE variants of the epics were implemented. Otherwise, I'd have to say no way in hell.
EDIT: Oh, and don't bitch that you should have to PK for epics, 99% of people just find someone and pay them for the kill anyway, so the killing for epics is stupid and pointless.
EDIT2: Epics are the only reason my dedicated LE characters ever take theirs out, I get(pay for, fuck wandering around for hours looking for a candidate) the kill for the epic, finish the mission and pop it right back in. So rather, fine, just make me pay 50k for that portion of the mission instead of the kill(which is what most people charge anyway) and let me go about my business, then I'd never have a reason to take it out.
I agree with the initial points, LE should have some punishment attached to it, or stay out once you take it out. Just having one less brain slot isnt enough.
Vet, I know you still have your char on pluto, log him on one day and take up my challenge (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74924), I doubt that you would miss a thread with that title, so whats the problem? You aint hiding are you? :D
Shadow Dancer
12-09-03, 09:50
Vet>Rade
Yeah, just like fenix>rade, and everyone and his mother that never actually fights me is>rade. Talk is cheap.
Shadow Dancer
12-09-03, 19:28
Originally posted by Rade
Yeah, just like fenix>rade, and everyone and his mother that never actually fights me is>rade. Talk is cheap.
Um I beat fenix 1v1. I have no idea why people say fenix would beat you. :confused: :confused: :confused:
No offense to fenix. :p
Vet on the other hand>u
lol
I can't believe there's so much arguing over something that seems to comprise 1% of a 1% of the player base. I hardly ever saw LE people and only was one when raising a character who didn't have another implant for the slot. It really isn't a very big issue. Choice is important in a game. LE is a choice. Keep it.
Originally posted by Smugly
I can't believe there's so much arguing over something that seems to comprise 1% of a 1% of the player base. I hardly ever saw LE people and only was one when raising a character who didn't have another implant for the slot. It really isn't a very big issue. Choice is important in a game. LE is a choice. Keep it.
You don't understand, the catass PKs are dizzy with frustration that they can't kill that 1%.
Yeah, pretty much. It's kinda funny when you think about it, and sad.
Sunab_Naverith
14-09-03, 07:33
Originally posted by Distaria
Yeah, pretty much. It's kinda funny when you think about it, and sad.
Indeed so.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: <---- me before
:( :( :( :( :( :( <---- me now.
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