View Full Version : What could be done in Neocron to "Influence" roleplay?
Neocron is eccentially a player versus player rpg, but one that has some roleplay issues for people that want it. Not that everybody should be forced to roleplay, I am personally against a roleplay server as it would ruin things on the larger scale. People sometimes like to roleplay occasionally, and I have some ideas.
Tell me yours aswell mind...
1: Walks. For example, inbetween the shops in viarossa there could be an open entrance to a walk for people to discuss buisiness issues. Some nice trees, and a fountain. Some long swaying grass, It could lead across parts of the map. A safe zone and a pleaseant walk where people from plaza 1 could meet up with people from viarossa 3 to trade and do buissness.
2: Make Pepper Park alive at night! I have read the patch updates, the DOY information, and I know! Gambaling is being implamented, hopefully quite soon! *hopes.* On top of that we already have a Racetrack in the wastelands and Cars, perhaps an open-roof indoor pepper park racetrack center? Reakktor has built us a pub which would be ideal for events at night help by quizmaster gamemasters, and they built us a shooting gallery and a maze that should close during the day and give good experience during the night.....
Dont get me wrong, the Factions, progressive storyline, NEMA maggazine, and interviews in the con center all add tremedious content to the people who stay for the gritty dirt streets, neon lights in the rain.... Just a bit more could help a lot. Do you think annoracks and umberallas would be a good idea? I do......
Personally I don't think anything KK could add to the game codewise will improve the status of roleplaying in NC. It's about the players minds ... most are either too lazy to roleplay a living character with needs, strengths and fears ... or are simply not interested in doing so.
What would it change if they "LOLOORFLFL KOS!!!111 sex" me at Plaza 1 Medicare or under a beautiful tree with a fountain ? ;)
Was there ever any progress made on the feedback from the 'RP items' thread?
To be fair though, as it stands RP is currently only really possible in safe zones - anywhere else and some bored capped player will just take you head off for the fun of it (which kinda takes the momentum out of your RP session)
I'm just looking at what it says under your avatar.... Then again mine is no better. ^^ :p
Originally posted by Benjie
I'm just looking at what it says under your avatar.... Then again mine is no better. ^^ :p
mpmmmpf ... yah, I know. :D
But if you're surrounded by so many people who actually speak (type) like this, you'll get influenced by it eventually :rolleyes:
Then again, whenever I invite a complete noobie back to my appartment, *wink* I always get the urge to roleplay a bit. To introduce them to a daunting megamatropolis, filled with endless appartment blocks, given to us to keep people contaminating the streets.
@ 5150, I belive that reakktor are considering the more popular ideas of the roleplay thread. I would just be happy if one of the Gamemasters or Developers posted a reply here, or a new thread stating that roleplaying in Neocron is a concern and not a hopeless pipedream that they choose to ignore.
@ sparrowtm, everybody knows the L337 hang around in plaza 1. Thats why cleverly placed roleplay areas would be nice. I have never heard a L337 sentence spoke in Chez Sypher. That is a perfect example of what a roleplay area could do. I belive a footpath bewtween plaza 1 and viarossa 3 would be usefull and not at all "L337".
Swoemoe/xerxes
08-09-03, 16:34
buildings with more then 1 or 2 stories, there should be high sky-scraper types of buildings
To role play you need roles
The current faction concept simply doesn't provide roles as such, therefore people don't really role play.
Sure clan's can provide roles for people, but often this is simply a rank treadmill of its own.
I personally favour have faction rank (not the noob/master that currently exists). Essential having a number of runs that someone could perform for a clan - the current Epic Runs are really just a warrior run. People completing that should be given a role equivalent to how that faction view soldiers. So in the City Mercs they're Red Ribbons, in Black Dragon they're hitmen, in Biotech they're security guards...
KK could then introduce runs for non-warrior roles - i.e. hacker runs, or constructor runs, or medic or whatever fits the faction ethos. Giving people named roles and adapting how the faction treats them to this role could be one way to kick start RP.
I'm also a big believer in Clan level role play - the CMA is a good example of this as is the FA non-aggression treaty. That meeting alone saw 15+ people all roleplaying their faction/clan identities.
Both of these extremes allow role play at different levels
Originally posted by Benjie
@ sparrowtm, everybody knows the L337 hang around in plaza 1. Thats why cleverly placed roleplay areas would be nice. I have never heard a L337 sentence spoke in Chez Sypher. That is a perfect example of what a roleplay area could do. I belive a footpath bewtween plaza 1 and viarossa 3 would be usefull and not at all "L337".
Okay, you definetly got a point there. Hmmm ... yes. Now that I think about it again, and think about what is going on in some threads in the German forum - some people might actually get influenced and motivated by this. :)
My personal opinion on how KK could increase roleplay would be to have faction specific gains and items depending on what faction does what.
I know this has been nandied round before but certain thngs should be taken into account.
I would propose stuff like drugs work better and longer for Black Dragons, NEXT have better vehicles, tangent build better weapons etc. simple things that make your faction decision a careful choice before starting to play a char giving careful consideration to what you want him to be when he grows up :)
Another way of doing that is to give faction bonuses on certain skills. NEXT VHC, Tangent CST, etc. MB Weapons skills.
That would force a certain part of roleplay IMO
You know to go to tangent to get better weapons built.
You need a ride, contact a NEXT runner.
Game doesn't work that way at all tho does it :)
roleplay is very much in the mind of the player.
The game cannot enforce roleplay without turning it into a facist state within the game. Not everyone that plays the game wants to roleplay, or roleplays at a certain level.
Most good roleplayers just need a pen and paper, if that. Take a look at SLA threads (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=17) on that board. Pretty impressive the set up they have.
Nullifidian
08-09-03, 16:57
Go here if you want to see some faction and zone changes:
Vendor, Zone, and Faction changes to enhance faction differences and roleplaying (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74437)
There's a poll in there too. Feel free to vote.
I'm trying to RP a lot more. When i become TG chairman I'll probably need to RP a lot, and I'll try and get my clan involved :)
Until now the closest I've come to RPing was in my GEF days, when me and Duder would go into Plaza and shout "Reza ate my hamster!" or "Reza raped my tree!" and so forth :D
There has been more events lately, though still not enough really, and the live runs are a step in the right direction, it shows that KK are listening.
PS Pred when are you coming back to Pluto? :)
Heavyporker
08-09-03, 17:06
swoemoe, you ever been inside Plaza Two Jobcenter, CAHQ, and TT HQ? They're all like 4+ stories tall... plus you seen Plaza One and Plaza Two Plaza Four? Multilevel zones, man... 2+ levels on them.
Admittedly, not "truly" skyscraperlike, but you totally left their height out.
It'll never happen but I'd like to be able to walk around the sections you see from some appartment windows - they do give you the impression that the city is huge, but the fact that you cant actually walk down the (what would be very unpopulated, in terms of player) streets stifles that impression somewhat.
But I'll stick to my original comment - until this game loses the over riding PvP focus/mentality and offers a choice beyond the LE (and I realise how unpopular what I'm saying is going to be) RP will never happen
The reason for this is that the 'Counterstrike crowd' can impose themself on any situation (thus potentially ruining any RP not in a safe zone) thus driving roleplayers off and forcing those that stay to go 'underground', and that these player will never RP. If tougher PvP restriction force some of them to quit (due to not being able to mindlessly and constantly gank lower ranked runners) then I for one wont miss them (and I'd say its a fair trade against RP players that ganking will have made quit)
While I will be the first to admit that restricted PvP isnt 'realistic', especially in this setting, human nature proves time and time again that people cannot police themselves given free reign. In real society we have police, laws and consequences that keep the majority of the population in check (and attempt to catch and punish the rest). In film and roleplay Cyberpunk we also have those same elements (since they are just a projection of our current society).
In Neocron we only have safe zones and the LE chip. These are absolutes, they do not allow the individual to make a choice about their behaviour at any given point in time, and they do not facilitate any subsequent application of justice for a comitted crime (beyond revenge and SL - and in a gank the loser is hardly likely to be in a position to do this and SL loss can be controlled).
While the LE chip has had many of its negative effects remove (a good thing) its clan restriction is still a major stopping point (I'm not suggesting that LE equipped clans should be able to hold outposts - that would be stupid) and until the PvP focus is reduced LE chipped players will always feel 'left out' since events tend to revolve around PvP
Force people to listen to the Neocron Soundtrack 24hrs, meh o.O
Hell-demon
08-09-03, 17:37
Well.....if any of you role players are interested IM thinkin of starting a player run, or what ever. Just need to get some rares.
The thought of rares will make any pker into a role player. Ill need characters.....Direct me on Pluto Dominion if interested.
I think we can make this good rp.
These runs get all sorts of people involved so thats how we lure role players.:angel:
here's something rattling round in my head (yes theres plenty of space in there:D )
Faction directed stuff. like if one faction and another are in peace talks (storyline idea) then clans in each faction as asked / instructed to refrain from clan wars with clans from the other faction. with maybe minor penalties etc. for non- compliance
also you could have directives from the faction leader indicating that a particular clan had been attacked and that all members should refrain from dealing with the enemy clans faction.
not sure how this would play out, and it would be down to the individual player, but it might create an atmosphere of involvement within a faction and help roleplay
Progenitor
08-09-03, 17:51
Personally, I think that the faction system itself needs to be adjusted to promote more RP.
As it is, there is no bonuses or negatives to being in one faction or another other than who controls what op in the wastes.
Something needs to be done to "encourage" roleplaying along faction lines.
Instead of city admin paying a reward for you killing things, maybe it should come from your own faction instead. Make it based off of your faction loyalty, after all, it doesn't make much sense that CA would pay anti-Ca runners momney for anything. Heck, maybe even make XP gain based off your faction loyalty. Or maybe even, let the governing faction in the area, hand out cash and XP for killing mobs in the area. Works great for the Neocron City areas. Wouldn't make much sense for the wastes though, unless MB, TH and TG gave some money for kills within a certain zone radius of their headquarters.
Make OPs affect the payout as well - the more op that a faction controls, the more resources that they have to payout the runners that are loyal to them.
If you are teamed with individules that are faction enemies, you should slowly loose faction loyalty while slowly gaining some loyalty with your enemies faction.
Make switching factions cost more or less depending on your existing factions' standing with your new faction. If they are hostile to each other, it costs more, if they are allied, it costs less and if they are nutral, it stays the same.
Put special shops inside of the faction HQs that give a discount to runners with high loyalty to that faction. (Although that might be a money issue - you might be able to buy it cheaply there and sell it for profit some other place)
But you get the idea, something that can benefit or hurt the players based off of their faction standing.
-p
Helen Angilley
08-09-03, 17:56
I question the ethics of those "Roleplayers" who all but demand items, bonuses....etc for Roleplaying, personally.
I'm not sure if that was directed at me Hele but in case it was
A staic group is a pretty basic need for any kind of organised RP (I wont launch into another diatribe because I'm leaving work shortly but suffice to say that spontenous RP between strangers is pretty rare even under the best circumstances) before needing one to represent some kind of unified body for RP purposes.
Since hardcore PvP and RP crowds are _usually_ 100% diametrically opposed its pretty fair to say that any 'RP clan' will really need an LE chip type of option. Hence my previous comments.
I dont think its asking for bonuses for the carebear (if you will) is more like asking to _not_ have any restrictions on playing the game. To those who wish to keep a reward for PvP (like does Counterstrike give you a reward!!!) I'd say that the ability to look the other persons belt and outposts still give the PvP people something to fight for
I suspect however that they will now tell me that this isnt enough and to that I would offer that this is simply because they are bored. I fail to see how any PvP-centric system is not doomed to long term player boredom (look at Planetside) simply due to the nature of PvP
Originally posted by 5150
Since hardcore PvP and RP crowds are _usually_ 100% diametrically opposed its pretty fair to say that any 'RP clan' will really need an LE chip type of option.
PvP + RP isn't mutually exclusive, but I'm assuming what you describe as "hardcore" PvP is where people kill anything and everything they can... because they can and for no other reason...
those are the people who I wish would go back to UT2003 or CS - those are games which cater for that sort of play style without the need to fuck up other peoples enjoyment.
But since a fairly large portion of the playerbase operates in that mode, those nice fellas leaving would probably kill NC.
Catch 22
Progenitor
08-09-03, 19:08
Originally posted by Rith
PvP + RP isn't mutually exclusive, but I'm assuming what you describe as "hardcore" PvP is where people kill anything and everything they can... because they can and for no other reason...
...
I would agree with Rith. Part of the RP aspects of the game, should be to defend/promote ones faction by killing it's enemies.
The penalty for killing outside of RP isn't large enough to prevent people from killing everyone reguardless of faction.
The only way I see to enforce it is to make the rewards for killing along faction relations worth something and penelties for killing outside of those painful enough to matter.
-p
Nullifidian
08-09-03, 19:27
Originally posted by 5150
The reason for this is that the 'Counterstrike crowd' can impose themself on any situation (thus potentially ruining any RP not in a safe zone) thus driving roleplayers off and forcing those that stay to go 'underground', and that these player will never RP. If tougher PvP restriction force some of them to quit (due to not being able to mindlessly and constantly gank lower ranked runners) then I for one wont miss them (and I'd say its a fair trade against RP players that ganking will have made quit)
While I will be the first to admit that restricted PvP isnt 'realistic', especially in this setting, human nature proves time and time again that people cannot police themselves given free reign. In real society we have police, laws and consequences that keep the majority of the population in check (and attempt to catch and punish the rest). In film and roleplay Cyberpunk we also have those same elements (since they are just a projection of our current society).
In Neocron we only have safe zones and the LE chip. These are absolutes, they do not allow the individual to make a choice about their behaviour at any given point in time, and they do not facilitate any subsequent application of justice for a comitted crime (beyond revenge and SL - and in a gank the loser is hardly likely to be in a position to do this and SL loss can be controlled).
While the LE chip has had many of its negative effects remove (a good thing) its clan restriction is still a major stopping point (I'm not suggesting that LE equipped clans should be able to hold outposts - that would be stupid) and until the PvP focus is reduced LE chipped players will always feel 'left out' since events tend to revolve around PvP
Counterstrikers aren't what ruin RP, dude. Munchkins do that. You got your groups of people mixed up.
Munchkins are the folks that fight mobs only for the loot and XP, and their character is only a collection of statistics to them. These people will only roleplay when forced, or when truly truly immersed. Oh, and these people make up over 90% of the playerbase, and that is never going to change.
Originally posted by Nullifidian
Munchkins are the folks that fight mobs only for the loot and XP, and their character is only a collection of statistics to them. These people will only roleplay when forced, or when truly truly immersed. Oh, and these people make up over 90% of the playerbase, and that is never going to change.
So true. And 99% percent of the Anarchy Online playerbase. :(
Clothing_Option
08-09-03, 19:38
Originally posted by Nullifidian
Counterstrikers aren't what ruin RP, dude. Munchkins do that. You got your groups of people mixed up.
Munchkins are the folks that fight mobs only for the loot and XP, and their character is only a collection of statistics to them. These people will only roleplay when forced, or when truly truly immersed. Oh, and these people make up over 90% of the playerbase, and that is never going to change.
But that is the way the game has been setup though, is that the fault of the players?
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
But that is the way the game has been setup though, is that the fault of the players?
Yes. You will find statistics to be essential to keep the player informed of what his character is able to do and what not. Creating a personality out of this numbers is the player's thing to do.
Helen Angilley
08-09-03, 19:48
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
But that is the way the game has been setup though, is that the fault of the players?
Yes, it is the players fault.
KK try (Live Runs, Faction Counsellors, Events...etc) but you always get some utter twat that ruins it "just because".
We can't blame KK for our lack of creativity and the in-ability to think.
Actually AO is a great example of the best possible situation....ruined
AO had the social venues, the clothes, the emotes and the PvP controls but _still_ turned into a powerleveller game
Its hard to pinpoint the problem, the lack of any story was a factor and the crappy launch probably resulted in the lack of story (because of all the lay-offs) but the fact that the game is designed around uber loot, camping and powerlevelling are probably the biggest culprits
Neocron benefits from not having a massive levelling curve (by comparison) but see my previous comments on boredom for the flipside to this. Neocron also doesnt suffer heavily from camping and uber loot (because very few items drop from a pre-determined MOB) but Neocron does suffer from lack of Avartar customisation (in terms of clothes and accessories) and emotes (beyond the really annoying 'sex') - actually while the implimentation of emotes (linked to chat text) was cool, it would have ben nice to have some command line triggers without having to say anything. I believe the root issue is story - while a good backstory is a cool thing, simply posting story developments on a web site (as AO does) or in a PDF (as Neocron does) actually gives the player a sence of frustration rather than immersion - I'll agree the Neocron PDF rocks but all the time I'm reading it I'm thinking "It would have been cool to have been there/seen that". The ability to directly participate or even imfluence the outcome of an incident is secondary to actually being able to witness it at all.
However Neocron lack of granular PvP control to my mind is the biggest problem - simply because anything that takes place outside a safe zone is at the mercy of the bored capped gankers (and while I hate to pigeon-hole TG their members are usually the ones to blame).
Now while DOY _may_ help matters (in terms of story and TG expulsion from Neocron) we are still waiting for DOY (how long has it been?) and perhaps the damage has already been done? Newer MMORPGs will continue to outpace Neocrons engine and the game has an established reputation for being a PvP/FPS game. As AO has found to its cost, reputations are a hard thing to break......
Nullifidian
08-09-03, 20:47
Originally posted by Clothing_Option
But that is the way the game has been setup though, is that the fault of the players?
Actually NO it isn't the fault of the players. Players naturally work only with the system they are given. Players in any MMORPG universe naturally, quite simply put, don't act like human beings. Rule number 1 in game making is that you can't expect the players to act a certain way on their own. Outright forcing isn't the right way either though; it just pisses people off and winds up feeling more cumbersome and unnecessary more than anything else. Instead you have to guide them. Lead them in the direction of the desired actions. To say this is a tricky thing would be the understatement of the decade.
One thing which guides people to roleplaying are roleplayers. However, roleplayers don't have to be human. NPCs are a fantastic tool for making the game more immersive. Make some NPCs able to talk in local chat for example. Vendors advertising their wares, bums mumbling incoherently, shady folk saying lude things to any female players that walk by, etc. NPCs are the biggest key to creating a believable world.
Then there's the concept of reward type. Currently, all rewards are in the form of stat modifiers. Whether that be an item, a level, etc. all rewards in the game currently are stat modifiers. That kind of reward system just perpetuates the problem. Instead, rewards need to be content based rewards. Content is NOT more items, content is storyline and plot. When a player gains more faction rating, they should be rewarded with special missions and tasks from their faction. They should be given the option to play out more of a role in various subplots that occur; preferably dynamically. As a player spends more time and progresses in the Neocron universe, reward them with more things to participate in, rather than more things to change a bunch of stupid numbers. Taking over outposts should mean more than a stat bonus or extra money. Each outpost should have a certain actual plot element associated with it if you will. Factories should be essential for each faction's production capabilities, mines should be essential for their aquisition of raw materials, labs for new research, uplinks for more reliable information, and fortresses for better military strength.
Another thing that needs to be done is the speration of the servers in terms of plot. Currently, each server shares the same plot. While this makes things really simple, it also prevents anything from being done ingame to influence plot. So, only keep essentially vital plot items in the Neochronicle, and for everything else, think of each server as a seperate reality. Profit margins, minor events, subplots, etc. would be different on each server based on what the players do. A balance needs to be made of course with the details of each event in order to relieve the workload that this would cause for GMs and anyone else responsible for driving this dynamic content; whatever is possible to automate, should be automated.
Fortunately, live runs are a step in this direction. A really really big step. I hope KK continues down this line of thought for the future of Neocron's development.
Heavyporker
09-09-03, 00:47
Oh yes, nullifidan, I agree with you in one part - NPCs have great power to influence the immersiveness of the world...
yes, NPCs should have the capacity to just talk in local - bums should mutter and mumble in broken sentences, dirty guys should say lewd and offensive things, the Copbots should get some new dialogue in conjunction to their "Put that weapon away", vendors should mention their main wares (as in, HEW merchants should mention they got plasma and raycannon weaponry, Yakarma monks should mention they got spells, Cryton salespersons mention they got chems and tools, and so on)... hells, look at the exerpts from my "second massive idea nova" thread -
quote:
"And what about making the faction HQ guards restlessly prowl the grounds, like they don't trust anyone... this would have the side effect that people wouldn't be able to just walk around them out fo their detection radii - they would be moving all around, so you would have to keep an eye on them instead of forgetting about them. Right now, the guards are just trapping themselves in the elevators... how vigilant, hmm?
And what about roving Yo's and Nomad vendors? I mean, shit, why should they just stand on their asses and twiddle their thumbs, waiting for customers? Maybe in the more populous areas, but what about out in the wastelands? Personally, it would be awesome to see a Nomad leading a Drom in the desert zones walking around, and when he gets close to you, he says "Yo man... you need anything? I got lots to sell, cheap prices, all legit." And maybe he even helps unload some rounds into the lowbie mobs that litter the zone, like the scorpions and snakes, but when he sees a big mob, his AI will take an avoidance path - this would be AWESOME to see - I mean, if you can set AIs to pursue, group tactics, aggro, and patrolling paths, you can set avoidance... This would greatly increase immersion.
And maybe... patrolling Copbots?"
that sounds wonderful, doesn't it?
hey, the random NPCs that Callash put up in Neocron City (well, back when I COULD play NC) work quite nicely to encourage an atmosphere, and yeah, the Epic NPCs also help in this regard, to create a more populated atmosphere... Odd, isn't it - an odd body here and there introduces a feeling of population better than the spam from plaza one running across your message box?
I question the ethics of those "Roleplayers" who all but demand items, bonuses....etc for Roleplaying, personally.
Helen's right.. Although many of you might find her to be a pain in the arse, and whilst she does tend to make posts of a confrontational manner, she is also a very good Roleplayer, even if she is denying the male species the pleasure of her company. :D
To RP, you don't need to get any rewards.
More items to use, that don't affect anything other than the RP situation at hand, are useful, but not neccessary.
What is neccessary, is reactions to our actions.
Balance of Power.. Remember that phrase once dreamt up by Martin? We need something like that, whereby we have powers to make actual decisions...
So as someone else mentioned, ranks within the Faction, that are decided by GM's, not by other Players.. Player votes are far too risque.
We have:
Faction Counsellor
Faction Chairman
Faction Council
All of that, and not a squat bit of difference does any of it make, we need more power to actually change things. We need a greater level of interface with the storyline and plot, we need actual clickable options and paths to chose from.
Unfortunately, this will never happen, because Reakktor have a Storyline and plot, that they will adhere to, and as such, Faction loyalties and whatnot, are planned out several years ahead of what they currently stand at.
Meaning we can't change a damn thing.
*Sighs*
@ Faction Roleplay: I think a lot of the factions simply "dont work"....
For example Diamond real Estate, you are supposed to be a faction of people who are keen on selling houses, but A: thats not progressive, and B: Due to certain changes, it is now pretty much impossible. Further Example. Bioteck and Tangent, two factions who are supposed to be buisness rivals, but it is entirely impossible for either one to proove they "turn over a bigger profit!" Instead the nearest roleplay you get is the members gunning each over down!. *sigh...* Yet another example, Tsunami Sindicate, can not in any way influence or change, any aspect if Pepper Park. They have absolutely no controll over the sector. There statement is to keep Pepper Park exciting and interesting and yet it is something which is impossible. *Becomes angry at kk...* One more example, there are no illegal items for Black Dragon to deal in. The only working factions in Neocron are Twilight Guardian, City Admin, and possibly the City Mercs.
It is entirely kk's fault that there is no roleplaying in Neocron for this reason.
Thankyou.
*is pleased with himself*
Progenitor
09-09-03, 01:29
Originally posted by MrBane
To RP, you don't need to get any rewards.
True you don't, the reward could be nothing more than status quo, but there needs to be a greater penalty for non role play.
Teaming, tradeing, poking, researching, constructing with/for faction enemies, killing faction allies and nutrals, letting your HQ be attacked, etc., etc.
If people see no negatives for not behaving a certain way, then they will behave as they want.
Giving perks for actually playing RP style tends to enforce RP.
Positive/negative re-enforcement usually works. :)
-p
Further Example. Bioteck and Tangent. Those two factions are supposed to be buisness rivals, but instead they gun each other down! It is completely impossible for either one of the two factions to prove that they make a better profit. (read faction goals for bioteck and tangent)
Business rivals? They're the two most aggressively dispositioned Factions. They despise each other.. The two brothers cannot stand each other, and whilst one of them has to prove the higher profit margin in order to inherit both companies, they're more than willing to resort to all out violence to affect each others progression.
Yet another example. Tsunami Sindicate can not in any way influence or change any aspect if Pepper Park. They have absolutely no controll over the sector.
That will be changing when the lockdown kicks in and the Copbots are removed. It will be a case of Tsunami holding the sector against the Dragons, although there is no official enforcment of this.
I believe it should be intergrated somehow, that Tsunami or the Dragons can hold each Pepper Park sector, via some form of Hacknet system? Just like typical Op hack, but with differences.
Then that Faction gets:
Vendor benefits
Skill benefits
NPC Guards
Cash benefits
That would give Pepper Park a purpose, and make it worth fighting for.
Heavyporker
09-09-03, 01:33
Well, we can't change the overarching fates...
but we can have a tremendous impact on the daily things, perhaps even in the weeks and months in between the major events that KK has scripted... perhaps to the point where KK has to step in and deal with things personally to try and steer things over to Fate...
like the players making Crahn Sect so powerful in Neocron City that they effectively control the economic pulse and influx of good into it, to the point that CA itself has crumbled... then KK has to step in and try to cause Crahn Sect to crumble, like with hiring CMs with vast riches and pulling in the last remaining CAs together to occupy and destroy one of the Crahn Churches...
like the TGs owning every last one of the OPs, to the point where KK has to step in and try to cajole the city clans to storm out and take a few OPs with NPC aid.
Like with the CMs suddenly deciding they want extort money from everyone, unifying and making everyone that comes to either MB or CRP pay fees.
so on and on.
Remember when the TGs got bad enough with pking at MB that KK stepped in and spawned loads of CM guards? We CAN effect things enough to make KK step in (though in RP guise) and try to straighten things out.
edit - well, there's the RP dissonance of BD selling apt keys in PepperPark/Outzone when TS supposed to own the real estate in pepperpark...
and aren't BD supposed to sell drugs, but the TS got a drug dealer in the TS HQ?
KK needs to fine-comb things like that ingame.
Read my last post, roleplaying is not about "rewards" at all.
Sorry Mr Bane, but Bioteck and Tangent's mission statement is to proove that they turn over a bigger profit. Not to gun each over down. There mission statement is impossible.
perhaps to the point where KK has to step in and deal with things personally to try and steer things over to Fate
They don't steer though, they push.
The DoY attack on MB, whilst I wasn't there, a lot of people said they just kept spawning Bots.. Same for the TG raid... People said they just kept spawning TG, as that was how the storyline had to go.
It would be interesting though, if we all abandoned some of the main Factions, to see how Reakktor would react.
I strongly believe they need to make the sectors controllable, and forget about leading the Faction related plots anywhere, and let us have the mechanisms by which we can decide for ourselves.
It would never work unfortunately, because as we've noted, people would FactionGangbang, and everyone would be in the winning Faction, or the one that gave the most kicks for being part of it.
Sorry Heavy Porker, but Bioteck and Tangent's mission statement is to proove that they turn over a bigger profit. Not to gun each over down. There mission statement is impossible.
You mean me. :D
Yes, that might be their mission statment, but how do they achieve that aim? At the end of the day, that end motive will never be reached.. So we don't need to worry about that.
Tangent & Biotech believe that the best way to win this challenge, is to systematically wipe out eachother, which they do to all intents and purposes, with great success.
Play both Epics, read all the stories and NPC dialogue surrounding them, I know Tangent and Biotech like the back of my hand. They can win by wiping each other out.
Besides, Biotech has been forgot about, and Tangent would at this stage in time, be the clear handsdown winner of this.
New NeXT vehicles using Tangent Weapons technology
New Battlesuits, Anti-Radiation suits
What have Biotech got?
A few more bone imps. :D
Heavyporker
09-09-03, 01:49
Heh, heh. Perhaps if Biotech came out with VEC-adding eyes, they might get more support from NExT. ;)
For better roleplay of factions.
Bioteck: Need to be able to produce some profit figures exclusive to the Merchant Clans[/b]
Black Dragon Clan: There needs to be some illegal products implamented in Neocron, that can not go into plaza or viarossa.
Brotherhood of Crahn: Sorry i don't know much about there mission statement. (sorry!)
City Administration: It's ok atm :)
City Mercs: Roleplaying as a CM is possible.
Diamond Real Estate: There needs to be a profitable way of selling or leesing houses, aswell as a further aray of housing.
Fallen Angels: Arn't they supposed to reserch new tecknology? :lol: *kicks reakktor in the arse*
NEXT systems: So many ways this could be improved. Racetrack, player shops...
Photopharm: This faction is roleplayed "behind the scenes". They need to be able to reserch new drugs and cures like they are supposed to.
Tangent Tecknologies: See Bioteck.
Tsunami Syndicate: Need to have controll of pepper park.
Twilight Guardian: Fine :)
On top of all that ^^ more roleplay items need to be implamented. Old shotguns, cigarretes, eating emotions to fill up the resteraunts and a nice effect so people do it. (lower drug haze?) On top of all that, there need to be more roleplay areas such as a pleasent footpath from plaza 1 to viarossa 4. Somewhere pleasent where traders could meet up and chat "buissness". On top of that there needs to be the current amount of events, only they need to be less buggy. *remembers the DOY attack on military base when the missiles hit plaza 1* *sighs*
If this is done then Neocron would be much easier to roleplay. Roleplaying "is" in the mind of the player, but it is also in the depths and complexities of the game...
Originally posted by MrBane
You mean me. :D
Yes, that might be their mission statment, but how do they achieve that aim? At the end of the day, that end motive will never be reached.. So we don't need to worry about that.
kk need to make it possible. Thats what I am trying to say.
Old shotguns, cigarretes, eating emotions to fill up the resteraunts and a nice effect so people do it. (lower drug haze?) On top of all that, there need to be more roleplay areas such as a pleasent footpath from plaza 1 to viarossa 4. Somewhere pleasent where traders could meet up and chat "buissness"
You can have all the RP items, all the emotes, all the scenic locations in the world..
If there is no purpose or point to Roleplaying, no-one will do it regardless.
There is no point to Roleplay in Neocron, apart from a personal satisfaction.
kk need to make it possible. Thats what I am trying to say.
They can't, that is the end mission for those two Factions, equivalent to End Game for one of them.
Originally posted by MrBane
They can't, that is the end mission for those two Factions, equivalent to End Game for one of them.
Ummmm.... err, I have no idea what I should say about this. First of all I think I will start by asking your opinion. How would you feel if there was a page on the neocron "web" of all the trade faction's profit turnover, and every week each Bioteck and Tangent runner would recieve an e-mail from there faction leader's (the npc ones, it could be an automated e-mail) containing the information and updates concering the buisness war with the oposing buisness? "Dear Tengent Technology's Merchent. We are happy to enclose the latest profit turnover figures from our faction, along side the profit turnover figures for Bioteck......" or whatever. Anyway MrBane (if that is your real name) now I must ask you the question of whether you feel that it _has_ to be an end game feature, somthing unatainable in an mmorpg, or somthing that both factions could consistantly be trying to achive?
In a nutshell, I think you are wrong.
They can.
In a nutshell, I think you are wrong.
Should I ask why you're in a nutshell?
:D
Well, here's one argument:
Why show so much attention to those two Factions? If you're going to do it for those two, you'll need to do it for the other ten, and that's too much of a resource drain for Reakktor.
Also, the profits result would be totally ficticious anyway, and once more, a Reakktor created scenario, which they could tailor for their own end.
I believe that for the end goal to be reached, would simply be too big a change for many people.
There is no way it could be possible for the Players to be the force behind the Biotech and Tangent outcome.. Why? Well, as a group, players don't have the skills nor intelligence required to achieve this.
As individuals, yes, but as a group, no. Mob rule and whatnot.
So anything added, would simply be another workload on Reakktor, when once more, they'd decide how it ends, and how it is achieved, and once more, achieve diddly squat.
That would mean you'd need to:
Allow TG to capture and control Neocron
Allow Black Dragons to wipe out Tsunami, vice-versa
Allow Crahn to wipe out City Admin
So on, so forth.
The problem with these, is, if left in Player control, the situation can get stupidly, stupidly out of control, to the stage where Reakktor would have to bring the Hand Of God into play to alter the balance back.
Because again, human nature, people would camp the winning sides, and there would be no competition. Like when almost everyone was TG because it gave them the most targets. It took a lot of people the balls to go against them, but still, most people just went neutrals to provide a safety net of forms.
So, in a three bedroom house in the nice end of Glasgow, I think you're wrong. :D
1: automated e-mails do not take up kk's resouces.
2: It's not on the level you claim it to be, rather it is about allowing players to roleplay as a member of there faction.
Just an influencial e-mail, hence the title of this thread. :) So what other things _could_ be done to "influence" roleplay in Neocron?
[EDIT]
I'm actually seriouly pissed off that kk don't take roleplay seriously!! *thinks back to nema and the doy thing...* Well okay they are control freaks then.
Roleplaying is something that the community brings about, the company providing the game can't do much other than hope for the best. Trying to force roleplaying will only alienate the playerbase.
Back in old UO we had a strong roleplaying community amidst the rest of the server population. Since UO I have not seen very much roleplaying in any of the MMOGs that followed. From what I have seen in the various MMOGs that I have played the majority of the players have no interest in roleplaying, they just want to blow shit up and hang out with friends. MMOG devs know this. Roleplayers are a small niche market within the overall MMOG demographic, unfortunately.
Roleplaying also requires something to talk about. In UO we built towns and went to war and made up our own backstory. I haven't seen anything like this since, though. In EQ and most games since the storyline is hard to work with. Whether it is the evil Freeport Militia or the hacker in Outzone 1, they are always there and the situation never changes. The quest or mission to kill him occurs but he is back at his spot 15 minutes later. Static worlds are hard to RP in. Also, when the world features repeating quests or missions things get silly; it is unsatisfying to talk about your epic battle with the special badguy and have someone mention that they just did that quest this morning. When a MMOG comes along that has real dynamic content, an evolving world, and a storyline that the players can impact you will see a game where roleplaying is going on.
Hey i played uo yesterday! There are a lot of roleplay items in it like the crystal ball, nice rp clothing, player vendors and player run blacksmith shops. :)
The UO devs provided the ability to build and decorate houses, build whole towns, run a shop with NPC vendors so the player didn't have to sit in the shop all day, etc and then sat back and watched are roleplaying communities formed (other things formed too, but those are not the topic of the thread). We only had two emotes, salute and bow, btw.
Just a couple of comments
Isnt 'personal gratification' the point of any (computer) game? I dont see how that can be levelled at RP and not at PvP
Why does PvP require rewards but RP does not - certainly different _kinds_ of rewards but I dont see why you can justify giving to one and not the other. Maybe what your actually seeing here is a manifestation of the attitudes of PvP-biased players ("I must get something for killing him/them") verses the attitudes of Roleplayers ("Oh I wish I'd stop being ganked")
Neocron cannot have a system that 'encourages' PvP (if they wish to retain the PvP bias) without first making PvP totally optional (i.e. removing the no clan limitation of the LE). Granted if that happened then one could justify giving PvP rewards as a way to 'encourage' people to get involved with PvP (kind of like how you can get faction pets if your Overt in SWG) but before that can happen RP (or rather non-PvP) must be a 100% viable way to play the game
Originally posted by 5150
Just a couple of comments
Isnt 'personal gratification' the point of any (computer) game? I dont see how that can be levelled at RP and not at PvP
Why does PvP require rewards but RP does not - certainly different _kinds_ of rewards but I dont see why you can justify giving to one and not the other. Maybe what your actually seeing here is a manifestation of the attitudes of PvP-biased players ("I must get something for killing him/them") verses the attitudes of Roleplayers ("Oh I wish I'd stop being ganked")
Neocron cannot have a system that 'encourages' PvP (if they wish to retain the PvP bias) without first making PvP totally optional (i.e. removing the no clan limitation of the LE). Granted if that happened then one could justify giving PvP rewards as a way to 'encourage' people to get involved with PvP (kind of like how you can get faction pets if your Overt in SWG) but before that can happen RP (or rather non-PvP) must be a 100% viable way to play the game
Wow such an incredibly thought provocing post! You are of course correct. The fact that roleplay is near impossible to fully achive is what I am trying to say in this thread. But once it is sorted out there still needs to be some kind of influence for people to do it. The one thing that comes to mind is how can you reward roleplay? It would be wrong to give the best roleplayers items. There simply needs to be a lot more "roleplay" events. Like in the first post, quizes at pepper parks. Interviews in the con center iwth NEMA representetives, with faction leaders. ETC ETC.
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