LoM Pills

[icarium]

i know this has been mentioned before, but am curious as to if there are any plans to change loms so they just lose XP and ditch the SL thing.

The reason i ask is because i wanted to lom my APU monk to PPU bought the loms then realised it would take me about 2 and a half hours of being sat there essentially being bored to fucking tears, i have absolutely no objection to losing exp, but i do object to being forced to waste time i am supposed to be enjoying myself. the really annoying thing is that you do actually have to sit there watching so you know when to take the next pill.

[Helen Angilley]

That's the reason the SI was implemented in the first place.

KK don't want people switching their stats around in five minutes flat.

[Sinead O'Connor]

which would be fine....except kk changes the way skills work with every fucking patch.

[SypH]

I think the SI is just a price you have to pay if you want to change skills, but I do think the length of SI should be shortened, maybe halved. I would like to try being a PPU but I really dont want to spend all day lomming from apu tp ppu.

[SorkZmok]

Originally posted by Sinead O'Connor
which would be fine....except kk changes the way skills work with every fucking patch.

But they dont change things so much that you'd have to lom one full skill into another. Well except the Hybrid Nerf, but hey they knew it would come. :D

You can use LoMs for small tweaks, and thats right imo.

[Helen Angilley]

Originally posted by SypH
I think the SI is just a price you have to pay if you want to change skills, but I do think the length of SI should be shortened, maybe halved. I would like to try being a PPU but I really dont want to spend all day lomming from apu tp ppu.

"All day" is shorter than having to re-roll.

If you're going to completely change your playing style, ie sub-class, then you _should_ have to go through this.

No point in having different playing styles if you can just hope between them in a matter of minutes.

[SypH]

I'm not asking for a change in a matter of minutes either. Halving the SI length will still take me a long time to switch from apu to ppu. With current SI times, lomming off a few skill points is bearable, but switching a major skill (eg apu to ppu, p-c to r-c) takes a long time and is possibley the only time sink I cant stand.

[Helen Angilley]

Originally posted by SypH
I'm not asking for a change in a matter of minutes either. Halving the SI length will still take me a long time to switch from apu to ppu. With current SI times, lomming off a few skill points is bearable, but switching a major skill (eg apu to ppu, p-c to r-c) takes a long time and is possibley the only time sink I cant stand.

That's the whole point.

LOMs are to tweak stats, not change your entire flipping set-up.

[icarium]

i dont think people would be chopping and changing every 5 minutes, the xp loss is great enough that you need to do a lot of hunting to get it back to what it was. the only problem with old system was tradeskillers chopping and changing, the xp loss makes that much more offputting now.

how about a super lom pill that loses you 2 whole levels but frees up all points in a subskill?

[icarium]

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
That's the whole point.

LOMs are to tweak stats, not change your entire flipping set-up.

why not? you are penalised via xp loss for doing it, so you lose something important, its not as if i am gonna change him then change him back 5 minutes later.

[Roc-a-fella]

once doy comes out they should refund alll our skill points so we can reskill to anything

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Helen Angilley


No point in having different playing styles if you can just hope between them in a matter of minutes.


There's no point for the SI. It's silly to force the player to stay somewhere and not be able to play during the whole duration of lomming. The xp loss is enough to prevent hopping back and forth. If you hop back and forth between 2 main sub skills then you can easily lose 9-10 levels. So if someone wants to be dumb enough to do that.........lol



The point is SI is just for frustration and shouldn't even be there.

[Beefheart]

"i dont think people would be chopping and changing every 5 minutes"

I just want to point out, because you may not have been around in the past is that the reason for the synaptic impairment from LoM'ing was exactly because of the reason you cited above. People DID change their setups very often. Spies could LoM everything into research and identify a whole batch of rare parts, them LoM everything into construction to build superior weapons, etc....etc.....etc. I'm sure you get the picture without me having to give other examples

A small bit of time to LoM your primary monk skill from one to another really isn't such a big deal. Everyone else has had to do it as well so just adapt to the situation and after 2-3 hours you'll be back to normal play.


[IE: above

"The xp loss is enough to prevent hopping back and forth. If you hop back and forth between 2 main sub skills then you can easily lose 9-10 levels"

Now thats just not true. LoM'ing from apu to ppu AND tweaking around all my stats under Intel as well did not make me lose 9-10 levels, thats just an exageration on your part. I dropped just 2 levels in intel and 2 in psi and across the board I would say that that is the norm.]

[icarium]

Originally posted by Beefheart
"i dont think people would be chopping and changing every 5 minutes"

I just want to point out, because you may not have been around in the past is that the reason for the synaptic impairment from LoM'ing was exactly because of the reason you cited above. People DID change their setups very often. Spies could LoM everything into research and identify a whole batch of rare parts, them LoM everything into construction to build superior weapons, etc....etc.....etc. I'm sure you get the picture without me having to give other examples

A small bit of time to LoM your primary monk skill from one to another really isn't such a big deal. Everyone else has had to do it as well so just adapt to the situation and after 2-3 hours you'll be back to normal play.

you completely ignored the XP loss in that statement, which is punishment enough without having to waste time waiting for Si. and dont take either my post count or the date i registered to post as anything to do with the time i played the game, i have played since beta 4

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Beefheart

Now thats just not true. LoM'ing from apu to ppu AND tweaking around all my stats under Intel as well did not make me lose 9-10 levels, thats just an exageration on your part. I dropped just 2 levels in intel and 2 in psi and across the board I would say that that is the norm.]

I said back AND forth. ;)


Also I was talking about "high skill" in your main sub-skill. I don't know how you only lost 2 psi, was your apu around 100 base only or something?


If you have like 130-140 base(which i'm sure alot of tradeskillers have as well) it's quite possible to lose 3-4 levels. Then if you go back and forth, you'l lose even more.



Btw, there's no such thing as losing "just" 2 int levels, when it comes to monks. :D

[Beefheart]

See my above edit. XP loss is being greatly exaggerated in this thread.

In this game, it's entirely possible to cap a character like a PE in a long, 3 day weekend and on the remaining 3 characters you can have 3 out of 5 primaris stats capped in that 3 day period and your remaining 2 skills in the mid 80's level within a week. I don't know of another game where advancement to those levels comes so rapidly.

So again, 2-3 hours is a small matter in the scheme of things.

[edit again for shadow dancer:

I know what you mean, but the poster isn't talking about changing skills back and forth over and over again. If someoen was going to go from apu to ppu and back to apu in the span of a few days, they would lose more levels then normal, but your example of 9-10 is still exaggerated]

[Alex Mars]

I don't mind the time it takes to LOM a skill, I just wish I could take all the pills at once and then leave the character alone for an hour while it took effect rather than having to wait for one pill to wear off before I can take another.

[Beefheart]

"I don't mind the time it takes to LOM a skill, I just wish I could take all the pills at once and then leave the character alone for an hour while it took effect rather than having to wait for one pill to wear off before I can take another."


I agree 100% .

[Shadow Dancer]

Originally posted by Beefheart
small matter in the scheme of things.





It's still too frustrating. 2-3 hours of just sitting there at your keyboard doing nothing but popping a pill every 5 minutes?


The least they could do is let you take it all at once, OR put a "drug timer" for 5 minutes where you aren't in SI so you can still go out and hunt, or PvP, or Op war, etc... But you can't do anything in SI.



Originally posted by Beefheart

[edit again for shadow dancer:

I know what you mean, but the poster isn't talking about changing skills back and forth over and over again.

What poster? I was replying to helen about hopping "between" skills multiple times. Just to let her know that SI isn't what's stopping the hopping back and forth, it's the XP loss.



Originally posted by Beefheart

but your example of 9-10 is still exaggerated]

I disagree. :p

[KRIMINAL99]

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
"All day" is shorter than having to re-roll.

If you're going to completely change your playing style, ie sub-class, then you _should_ have to go through this.

No point in having different playing styles if you can just hope between them in a matter of minutes.

First of all time spent LOMing is not enjoyable by any means and noone would argue with that. Basically if you have to lom for 8 hrs. since its work and not fun you are losing an amount of money equal to the work you could have done during that time. If you make 5 bucks an hour than thats 40 bucks in time opportunity cost you just paid to rollback your char. If you get paid 20 bucks an hour you just wasted 160 dollars worth of your time... Thats absolutely rediculous.

If you have to reroll a char its fun at least (unless you have done it several times) but KK knew it was unfair that people should have to reroll when they change something in a patch, AND they also know they never implemented a way to level up using skills that they had to nerf xp from cause they were to easily exploitable. (barter xp etc.) Hence they made LOMS. Then tradeskillers who were stupid enough to level tradeskills naturally complained about the LOMS and KK nerfed them to leaving no legit way to level up using many skills, and rediculously slow leveling in others. (with a xp And 5 min per level lom penalty as a block).

And now those same tradeskillers who bitched about loms are now begging for ways to level up their tradeskills faster and asking for the old LOMS back or with different penalties. Another lesson not to listen to peoples childish demands made on the forums when they are venting because of their refusal to simply adapt to game mechanics which have been carefully planned to work well. (Especially since giving any indication that you might accomadate them fuels their immature refusal to adapt to the way things are)

[icarium]

Originally posted by Alex Mars
I don't mind the time it takes to LOM a skill, I just wish I could take all the pills at once and then leave the character alone for an hour while it took effect rather than having to wait for one pill to wear off before I can take another.

yup even THAT would be better than having to sit there taking a pill every 5 mins