View Full Version : KK removes hybrids every other rpg puts them in
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seems most other rpg`s are now having hybrids put in and players actually want hybrids
now theres something we didnt already know
o_O
give me my fking hybrid back ktnxta
Why should you be allowed to have near max damage on both aggressive and defensive spells. It practically makes you an invunerable killing machine. Is that fair to the rest of us? Hell no it aint.
Quit winging about the hybrids, KK made a good choice with what they did. Deal with it.
Originally posted by NeoLojik
Why should you be allowed to have near max damage on both aggressive and defensive spells. It practically makes you an invunerable killing machine. Is that fair to the rest of us? Hell no it aint.
Quit winging about the hybrids, KK made a good choice with what they did. Deal with it.
heh how clueless you are
no where near max damage pures can only just max their spells now.
we had mid lvl % on our spells and needed toning down A BIT not removed
KK mad a bad choice they know it and every single monk i know and even ones ive just randomly spoke to on each server wants hybrids back.
the only difference is theres like 10 monks in total post on these forums o_O so we had no defence compared to the vast numbers of other classes that screamed nerf.
perhaps voting polls in game would be a nice idea like going to the elections or poll`s also gives more of a city type of feeling
i wouldnt mind if they came back being able to use blessed to spells but not holy unless they spec toward ppu with a little apu.
i doubt in other games they are as powerful as in NC hinch, hybrids needed some serious done to them tbh ;/
well other games have different game engines, different playstyles and a whole different concepts...
Lets focus on this game ok? :p
I miss my hybrid!
In my eyes it was the only really fun soloing class :/
I agree they needed turning down not destroying.
I had no where near capped defence and offence (and no i didnt have a bad setup for the day)
Heavyporker
05-09-03, 18:20
Polls ingame would only apply to politics not worldchanges.
I agree that the slams on hybrids were harsh, but not uncalled for.
Perhaps making it so going hybrid only hits about 20% penalty, not the 30% as it had been set.
Originally posted by REMUS
i wouldnt mind if they came back being able to use blessed to spells but not holy unless they spec toward ppu with a little apu.
i doubt in other games they are as powerful as in NC hinch, hybrids needed some serious done to them tbh ;/
ive said it before and i`ll say it again
blessed defence = high lvl rare offence say cap at max holy anti shelter
holy paralysis lvl defence = holy halo lvl offence
simple as that really.
blessed would need an ever so slight boost perhaps 1 or 2 max
but that would balance it nicely
as in 1v1 a tank or a spy can easly take out a blessed hybrid who isnt like the dogs bollocks since we wouldnt be able to run cast either.
and although a holy hybrid would be a good ppu their offence would be shocking.
very simple solution and should be done that way
as for hybrids in other games a hybrid wizard is 3x more powerfull than a hybrid monk in nc (usually not always same as our special case the unkilliable hybrid in nc not every monk was unkilliable just a few)
Originally posted by Heavyporker
Perhaps making it so going hybrid only hits about 20% penalty, not the 30% as it had been set.
work out the maths its never been 30%
i think eric posted the actual amount are more like 47%
yeah lets bring back the class taht could own any other class (x5) sounds like a great idea!!!
Originally posted by Itth
yeah lets bring back the class taht could own any other class (x5) sounds like a great idea!!!
your clearly incapable of reading please get out of my thread as i dont appreciate you being here
Originally posted by NeoLojik
Why should you be allowed to have near max damage on both aggressive and defensive spells. It practically makes you an invunerable killing machine. Is that fair to the rest of us? Hell no it aint.
Quit winging about the hybrids, KK made a good choice with what they did. Deal with it.
dont make me flame you.
do you know what it is like?
in PvM hybrids are fine. I can walk cast my HL in PvM, which means i can attack.
However, in PvP I cant move 1 step without the spell failing. and when i say STEP i mean a NANOMILIMETRE. 1 nudge from a enemy attack will make the spell fail. That includes defensive spells as well.
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 18:34
All you people who are pleased hybrids are gone are kinda selfish. Woudl you like it if your class was totally wiped out?
IMO hybrids should be brought back, just made viable. Just don't let them get holy buffs, holy buffs(even weak ones) are too strong for any kind of offense.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Just don't let them get holy buffs, holy buffs(even weak ones) are too strong for any kind of offense.
the day this happens i return to NC
give away all my items, and quit perminantly.
and if ONE, just ONE person posts that glove idea, i'll wring their neck til their eyes pop out their skull.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Just don't let them get holy buffs, holy buffs(even weak ones) are too strong for any kind of offense.
naah they aint ask tactics about his holy buffs and how quickly they became irrelevent to my tank :)
yes he died and his ppu monk ran like a little bitch
If hybrids come back, they shouldn't get holy buffs at all. Even if they only have holy halo offense with their holy halos, they would still be overpowered.
Just because other MMORPGs have hybrids doesn't mean NC should. Most of us play this game because it's not like other MMORPGs. That's just a weak argument.
It is a bit selfish to say it was fair that hybrids got totally destroyed. I don't think they should have been killed off completely. However, I think it is more selfish to demand that your overpowered character be reinstated on the grounds that you enjoyed it.
Heavyporker
05-09-03, 18:46
Hinch, Omnituens, tone down the heated rhetoric please. Everyone gets a voice, okay?
Look, I don't do maths, if people ingame says its more like 47%, then, fine. I agree that number would obliterate hybrids. Then let us just ask KK to rework the numbers to get it down to a 20% penalty ingame.
Let's keep it intellectual, not emotional, okay?
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 18:48
Originally posted by hinch
naah they aint ask tactics about his holy buffs and how quickly they became irrelevent to my tank :)
yes he died and his ppu monk ran like a little bitch
Isn't tactics a tank?
The problem with hybrids was quite simple: PPU defense on top of the usual defense.
I am all for hybrids, but as long PSI is the quivaletn of magic, it should not be used on top of an existing defense design, especially with the most powerful armor in the game.
Hybrids (and I personally think all monks should be hybrids as base design) should rely on PSI and PSI only for their offense and defense. And it is player’s choice then, how much he want to get in these fields. You basically could even go some sort of “pure” if you wanted to, but who would ;-)
Monks need a serious rework. Mixing pures and hybrids wont work, one of them always would be too strong or too weak or would unbalance all other classes. Monks in Neocron are currently a mad design, the only monk concept fitting the balance with other classes is the pure APU.
I say adjust (read: correct) the APU<--->PPU nerf calculation.
then work from there.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Isn't tactics a tank?
yeah with z3r0 stuck to his ass (or however you spell it) as you know im a crap tank
want me to post the screenie of him on his back?
sickar im not asking for us to be put in back as we were im asking that we be put back in balanced you should know by now i have admitted enough time i was grossly overpowered.
now lets look at the reason most people play neocron.
"its a vasty open ended game. "
tell you what let me rephrase that
"it WAS a vastly open ended game"
now what do 99.999% of all game developers wish for especially in a roleplaying environment?
as a games developer for a living ! i`ll tell you its non-linear game play.
so the ability for monks to be in 3 different class of monks sorts that out.
tanks used to be able to use libbys and they were god like :)
now all classes are being forced towards specilisation.
why did I and so many other players fall in love with nc and play for so long?
because it was dynamic we had the options and the individuality to be something different to be what WE wanted.
you want to be a cs toating smurf? ok im not going to stop you.
you want to be a sniping cloaking spy? ok im not going to stop you.
we want to be hybrids? OMFG NO KOS KOS KOS KOS ONOZ BOLLOCKS blah blah blah whine....
so bit of background time? i think so FAnG my clan on jupiter doesnt exist anymore. Why ? simple there was 200 or so of us we had it all power money control coordination everything
so what happened?
some moron removed hybrids. Now in combat chars only 5 of us were actually hybrids, me, crash, deepthough, morgatha, erm erm erm. cant actually remember who the 5th was....
anyway everyone else was a pure ppu or a pure apu.
question remains why did we stay hybrid? because out of the whole clan us 5 lvled on our own. traveled on our own. scouted ops on our own. basically did everything appart from op wars on our own.
KK designed the game so we could play it how WE wanted to play it. now to me that means playing solo 99% of the time but being able to fall back on friends/clan in op wars and as/when needed.
now i can no longer play solo.
as ANY ex-hybrid will tell you and i mean ANY ex-hybrid will tell you NC has lost 100% of the fun for them its no longer a game most of us want to play it no longer shows the promise of the open ended and dynamic nature it did when we first started playing we `re now being forced down particular routes that we may never wanted to have gone down.
why am i still here?
a) ive made alot of friends most of the people i came to the game with have now left including all of my clan but ive made alot of new friends.
b) the game still has its occational moments of fun even when im not hybrid. wining my first pvp fight as a tank last night was most satisfying.
c) i have offered my assistance to KK on multiple occations be it involved with forum mods, gm`s, event coordination hell even keeping you lot happy with communications from above would do me.
dont get me wrong i absolubtly love this game as i know many others do its one of the few games ive not stopped playing after like a week.
ingame ive done everything there is.
ingame ive lost the only char that really was what i wanted from the game. But i dont want to leave so i`d like to get involved on a higher lvl with KK helping the game perhaps to make it better for you guys in the long run. However they never respond to meh :( or just dont care what a long term player and a professional game developer thinks or could offer to the team.
the development company although they say are listening to us at times (all times) dont show it. some of the best and most popular games around are so popular because there is a constant and i mean constant stream of information coming from developers/KK to the players what the players want what the developers think etc. lupus and callah do this and people love them for it.
its simple i dont want to leave even though i can no longer play the game i bought. so i`d like to get involved more and alot of us older players think along the same lines too.
but still RESSURECT TEH HYBRIDS FFS
Originally posted by hinch
we had mid lvl % on our spells and needed toning down A BIT not removed
KK mad a bad choice they know it and every single monk i know and even ones ive just randomly spoke to on each server wants hybrids back.
the only difference is theres like 10 monks in total post on these forums so we had no defence compared to the vast numbers of other classes that screamed nerf.
perhaps voting polls in game would be a nice idea like going to the elections or poll`s also gives more of a city type of feeling
I played a hybrid to PSI 96. Even after that, I came on the forums and agreed with a hybrid nerf.
A hybrid was pretty tough. A hybrid who knew what he/she was doing or was half-decent a monk-based PvP could take out entire groups of fighters, which was just stupid and when I realised I could do pretty well versus 2-3 people without too much effort, I got bored fast.
I think the nerf percent should be decreased to say 10-20%.. I think it's just a matter of KK having hybrids that are around the same 'level' as the pures. (meaning they have medium offense and medium defense, not both in the extremes).
No offense Hinch, but of course you did. When I played QuakeWorld and killed everyone on the server consistantly, I loved the game. When I played Quake II and got stuck in the middle of the pack with all the other schmoes it became a take-it-or-leave-it game. Not because Quake II was a mediocre game, but because I no longer pwned and I was used to doing so.
So you ask me to ask ANY other hybrid if the game is still fun for them but why should I bother? I bet most of them will say no. The game was unbalanced in their favor. How about you ask ANY nonhybrid who's consistantly been killed by a hybrid if the game is MORE fun for them, and they'll all say yes.
I'd also throw out the fact that we're both highly biased in these opinions. You were a hybrid that's done it all, seen it all, and used to float 2 inches above the ground. I was a big dumb tank that couldn't walk to the fucking shops without getting struck down by a monk that didn't take damage when I shot it. You're sick of no longer being able to kill insert uber mob here without help, and I'm happy I can even go see uber mob without have to worry about some dork in robes throwing a lightning bolt through my head while he sexes my bullets bouncing off him.
I agree that a new, viable form of hybrid would be cool to see, but please don't resurrect teh hybrid, we're better off with him gone.
Originally posted by hinch
now i can no longer play solo.
that EXACTLY why I was hybrid. I could enjoy the game even if I wasn't with friends. I could also adapt to gaps in a team (offensive or defensive)
Originally posted by hinch
why am i still here?
a) ive made alot of friends most of the people i came to the game with have now left including all of my clan but ive made alot of new friends.
b) the game still has its occational moments of fun even when im not hybrid. wining my first pvp fight as a tank last night was most satisfying.
c) i have offered my assistance to KK on multiple occations be it involved with forum mods, gm`s, event coordination hell even keeping you lot happy with communications from above would do me.
a) same here
b) I'm still hybrid, but I was having more fun before the nerf (no i wasnt a PvPer before you start going down that road)
c) I would love to help out with ideas/assisting other runners. And when i say idea, i mean i would be in a possition when someone would actualy LISTEN to them. to me, it appears on Lupus and Callash are taking our ideas on board and giving them a try on the test server, I would love to do that. Take ideas that i think are good and give them a whirl.
but im too young :(
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 19:26
Hinch "weak" self-cast holy buffs are still stronger than PPU holy buffs cast on another person.
What hybrids need is to be restricted to holy halo IMO(so they don't outdamage apus with damage boost), and bless shelter then given the ability to run/cast.
Originally posted by Xin
No offense Hinch, but of course you did. When I played QuakeWorld and killed everyone on the server consistantly, I loved the game. When I played Quake II and got stuck in the middle of the pack with all the other schmoes it became a take-it-or-leave-it game. Not because Quake II was a mediocre game, but because I no longer pwned and I was used to doing so.
So you ask me to ask ANY other hybrid if the game is still fun for them but why should I bother? I bet most of them will say no. The game was unbalanced in their favor. How about you ask ANY nonhybrid who's consistantly been killed by a hybrid if the game is MORE fun for them, and they'll all say yes.
I'd also throw out the fact that we're both highly biased in these opinions. You were a hybrid that's done it all, seen it all, and used to float 2 inches above the ground. I was a big dumb tank that couldn't walk to the fucking shops without getting struck down by a monk that didn't take damage when I shot it. You're sick of no longer being able to kill insert uber mob here without help, and I'm happy I can even go see uber mob without have to worry about some dork in robes throwing a lightning bolt through my head while he sexes my bullets bouncing off him.
I agree that a new, viable form of hybrid would be cool to see, but please don't resurrect teh hybrid, we're better off with him gone.
i also have the following chars
a) capped rifle spy
b) capped pistol pe
c) droner spy
d) pure apu
e) pure ppu
f) near capped tank
ive played them since hybrids really WERE unkilliable. ie: november
as a so called uber hybrid you can still die btw. you just gotta get a good opponent.
Originally posted by Omnituens
c) I would love to help out with ideas/assisting other runners. And when i say idea, i mean i would be in a possition when someone would actualy LISTEN to them. to me, it appears on Lupus and Callash are taking our ideas on board and giving them a try on the test server, I would love to do that. Take ideas that i think are good and give them a whirl.
but im too young :(
im not too young and i know games/gaming very very well i think there should perhaps be a player council made.
these can be a group of say upto 10 players that goes out and discusses with other players ideas listens to them etc.
then once a week could have meetings with lupus etc and discuss the ideas theyve been given and perhaps then build up a short list which lupus etc could then feed back to kk that way all player ideas would be at least heard once for discussion rather than ignored like we feel 99% of our ideas these days are.
Progenitor
05-09-03, 19:28
Originally posted by hinch
ive said it before and i`ll say it again
blessed defence = high lvl rare offence say cap at max holy anti shelter
holy paralysis lvl defence = holy halo lvl offence
simple as that really.
blessed would need an ever so slight boost perhaps 1 or 2 max
but that would balance it nicely
as in 1v1 a tank or a spy can easly take out a blessed hybrid who isnt like the dogs bollocks since we wouldnt be able to run cast either.
and although a holy hybrid would be a good ppu their offence would be shocking.
very simple solution and should be done that way
as for hybrids in other games a hybrid wizard is 3x more powerfull than a hybrid monk in nc (usually not always same as our special case the unkilliable hybrid in nc not every monk was unkilliable just a few)
I don't know if we even needed the blessed level ppu spells.
As I hybrid, I oppted for more offense and with implants had ppu at 75, just enough for regular heal, heal sanctum, shelter, damage boost, (god I miss that), Heat 1, Hazard 1 and Basic 3 (okay I guess I did have blessed deflector) I could pull out my attack 3 chip and resurect when needed.
I did well enough.
I'd love just to be able to go back to that.
Even if we were limited to just the basic shelter/deflector, the ability to be able to use heal/heal sanctum would make my life so much easier. (I still think it is a travisty that the only role/class that can't use TL3 heal is the apu monk!)
If I need more, I can always have a true ppu buff me up.
Originally posted by Lucjan
[B]The problem with hybrids was quite simple: PPU defense on top of the usual defense.
I am all for hybrids, but as long PSI is the quivaletn of magic, it should not be used on top of an existing defense design, especially with the most powerful armor in the game.
That is a very good point. I a lot of other RPG environments, limit the physical defense of "magic" users, making them rely on their conjured defenses.
That might be a better solution - readjust the armor that monks use or give it some negatives to our psi abilities.
----
I still think that if they removed MST now, it would allow us to spec both apu and ppu and not suffer terribly.
-p
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Hinch "weak" self-cast holy buffs are still stronger than PPU holy buffs cast on another person.
What hybrids need is to be restricted to holy halo IMO(so they don't outdamage apus with damage boost), and bless shelter then given the ability to run/cast.
point 1 no theyre not i`ll find a ppu later on and fenix`s pe and we`ll test
point 2 wouldnt work. you can runcast a holy halo even now if you spec for blessed buffs
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 19:29
That's a good idea hinch, but the "council" will have to be picked extremely carefully. Their are some people that are super open-minded, rational, and smart when it comes to balance.........except their own class. Then they twist arguements, ignore logic, etc..... Players like that cannot be on the council.
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 19:31
Originally posted by hinch
point 1 no theyre not
i disagree. :p
Originally posted by hinch
point 2 wouldnt work.
why not?
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
That's a good idea hinch, but the "council" will have to be picked extremely carefully. Their are some people that are super open-minded, rational, and smart when it comes to balance.........except their own class. Then they twist arguements, ignore logic, etc..... Players like that cannot be on the council.
i would think say a head council
i`d vote reefsmoker :)
then one advocate of each class
then if you can find them some more neutrals.
personally im quite open mided but very pissed off about loosing the only truly usefull class in the game though not as pissed off as i first was. my pistol pe made me actaully stay in the game and the tank although pisses me off by generally being shit is starting to get more fun as i can now actually kill shit instead of getting beaten to death by sewer rats and you
Anyone who wants hybreds back, even toned down back, is the clueless fool. They ae simply too powerful. Let me clue you people who are too slow in. Lets say, they only get to use the best store bought energy beam, and blessed shelter/def, blessed heal. Its STILL too much. My freind, who hs ZERO expierence with monks made a ppu to help me on saturn. His 400% blessed shelter absorbed HUGE damage. His 480% blessed heal healed me VERY fast. Energy beem + damage boost + being parashocked + trying to kill someone with the best armor in the game (psi armor and maybe heavy energy/fire/poisonbelt) + blessed shelter/heal/def+melee booster 2 and haz/heat 2 = YOU ARE DEAD! Trust me, any decent old hyberd could make a hybred with just blessed defence and best store bought offence that would own ANYONE 1vs1. Dont fight me on this, you cant win, ALL I do in this game is think about how to make the strongest fighter, that it. nothing else. I know more then you, im better, so please, STFU. Good riddence to the hybred, burn in hell. I hate when people argue on something they dont know about as much as I do. I dont know shit about 90% of life so i wont argue with people who do, dont argue me on neocron because you will lose. Im so fucking happy i can move condidently around the NC map knowing that I wont run into one of you overpowered freaks anymore, and can have a fiar 1vs1 vs anyone in the game. GJ KK, taking out hybreds was the best thig you ever did.
{MD}GeistDamnit
05-09-03, 19:39
you know. I thought I was gonna hate being pure.But to be honest, now I fight unbuffed a lot. there isn't allways a ppu around you know, and I hate worryng "when is my buff gonna run out" and as a hibrid I hated not being able to runcast.
I like runcast now and I dont mind fighting totally unbuffed, I actually prefer it and I still kick ass. Also as I said before they nerfed hibrids, I would kill the nerf cryers, and well hopefully I did by now. I have killed so many people I know one of them must have been a "nerf teh hibrids" fruit.
so morale of story is : be carefull what u wish for you just might get it. and nerf cryers get owned :D haha
the way they could make them use only blessed spells would be to put restrictions on other spells example on a holy shelter would be req : 0 base apu (so if you have anything you put into apu you couldnt use the spell) but + skill wouldnt effect this number just points you put in yourself. i dont see why this would be hard to do they can do it for armor crap.
they could also restrict other ppu spells to pures only ( reserect dmg boost etc)
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 19:45
Originally posted by hinch
i`d vote reefsmoker :)
um no.
Anyways i'd rather have KK or Lupus pick out the players(if indeed such a thing ever happened).
Originally posted by VetteroX
Dont fight me on this, you cant win, ALL I do in this game is think about how to make the strongest fighter, that it. nothing else. I know more then you, im better, so please, STFU. Good riddence to the hybred, burn in hell. I hate when people argue on something they dont know about as much as I do. I dont know shit about 90% of life so i wont argue with people who do, dont argue me on neocron because you will lose. Im so fucking happy i can move condidently around the NC map knowing that I wont run into one of you overpowered freaks anymore, and can have a fiar 1vs1 vs anyone in the game. GJ KK, taking out hybreds was the best thig you ever did.
roflmao
Originally posted by VetteroX
- blah blah blah blah and more clueless blah -
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
a hybrid would never get the spells you mentioned on the %`s your ppu friend n00b would get htem on.
not unless A they were 5 slotted constructed and B he was capped with a psi core and a ds.
infact i barely get my holy shit on that lvl and mines all top of the range stuff.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
ps: considering you spend all day thinking about it you cant be too smart cos it took me abuot 4 hours to work out each char.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by VetteroX
Anyone who wants hybreds back, even toned down back, is the clueless fool.[----] GJ KK, taking out hybreds was the best thig you ever did.
Originally posted by VetteroX
His 400% blessed shelter absorbed HUGE damage
then you dont attack a monk with energy weapon, you 'clueless fool'
you have no room to talk, not only are you insulting all hybrids, you have the cheek to mispell the name.
Please, get out of this thread.
In fact, im getting out of this thread. There is no point trying to explain the problem with people like you on these forums.
hinch, I fully support the council idea. shame you're not on the council that listens to player ideas :D
I spend all my neocron time on it, not all my time. If getting drunk and stoned is all u think about, you arent gonna get too far. Yes, im thinking about perfect spells and DS, cause guess what? I have em, so other people can too. You just another idiot who thinks he knows something. If you want a duel or rather, an execution, because I doubt you would do well enough to call it a duel, msg me anytime. Anyway, its a non issue, you have lost. Hybreds are finnished, gone.
I hate hybreds, so do many others, and I know why. When I was making my PE better and better, and would lose to a really good tank, it wasnt such a big issue, because I knew i could overcome it. I knew if I made my resits even better, worked on my aiming and movement, I could win. And i always found a way. But vs Hybreds, there was no hope. Id didnt matter what weapon i used, how good my aim was, how great my resits were. Get him down to 1/3 hp, poof, hes back to full in 3 seconds. Hell, i can bring a capped freind. Oh we still lose. It was a feeling of utter hopelesness knowing that if I run into a hybred out in the open, all i could do was think about where i wanted my free GR ride to. Now that bullshit is over. You hybreds will have to learn to be on the same level as other players now. If you cant take it, go find another game.
And defelctor + heavy defelctor belts? lib and pain easer dont do shit to a capped hybred. Even when its hurting him with DB on, he just runs around with his fucking 100 + agil with heal on and is back to full hp.
BTW, I had the player counsil idea a long time ago. They should do it. But, only the most knowlegeable players should be on it.... and niether of hinch or omintuens know enough to be on it. People that should be on it are thoes that think a lot about every char, not just focus on one. Heres people Id nominate: Me, Kramer, QD, Nish, Smokey, Evileye, Pitspawn, Psycho Killa, From what I hear, Rizzy, although he hasnt fought me yet. Anyway, thoes are people that havea more fiar view i think, for example not: "whaa I wanna solo grim chasers again, give me back my godhood" also, they know the fundimentals of the game and have multiple chars. Theres plenty of great tanks, pes, monks i didnt mention, but to my knowlege (they can correct me if im wrong) They only use 1 char.
Lastly, lotta people know me. Some will say nice guy, others will say arrogant asshole. I treat people as I see fit... if they are reasoanble, im cool to them. If their argument is "give me my god char back, screw people who cant beat a char with 90% damage reduction and an insane heal with good offence" I treat em like the fools they are. U dont need a hybred to solo, my PE solos mobs all day. Swamp cave, doom all the way up to grims... granted takes some tactical retreats every now and then, but heal sanc + tl 3 heal actually heals pretty fast, and a pe with good resits + shelter can take a lotta hits... try getting good at other chars and stop asking for your god chars back, they ruined the game.
Clownst0pper
05-09-03, 20:10
Its a pointless thread. Im glad hybrids are gone, not because im a n00b, or just for moaning sake, but because, now, I feel I have an ability to fight the monk class, In the past I used to see a monk and run a mile both with my Capped Pistol Pe, and my Capped Rifle Spy, Now I have confidence because I know they dont exist.
I read a comment regarding they dont cap there dmg % etc. Well, Im not sure that is 100% true..On saturn, zX, and Harvey Birdman, im aware capped there holy lightning, could run cast somewhat and cap there PPU holy shelters/holy heals.
I see this as a slight disadvantage to us runners who dont have that ability. (here come the flames)
For all you old hybrids, deal with it, KK wont change there minds, Hybrids wont return, and for that im glad, most people can now moan about a PPU nerf and if that gets pulled off, then no one will fear anyone I suppose..
I know, lets bring just get rid of everything bar hybrids and Tanks, seems alot would be happier.
:confused: ohh my head :confused:
God - this retarded argument is *still* going on ?
The pre-nerf hybrid was overpowered.
Anyone that even attempts to argue otherwise is plainly a fool no longer worth listening to.
You got your uber gameplay destroying character (for *others*) removed. Get over it already.
Live with it, like the rest of the population had to live with the ludicrous imbalance of hybrids for so long.
Post-nerf ?
Don't even try and compare them scaled against pre-nerf examples.
Scale them against the rest of the population that didn't choose to take advantage of a loophole in the skill/weapon mechanics, and base any continuing balancing issues from that start point.
Then, and only then, will you start to sound like a reasonable human rather than a selfish child.
hmmmm in the article you linked too(not sure didnt read the whole thread) It looks like they are referring to single player games where character imbalance is not an issue.
I dunno i liked hybrids cause they were uber freinds to have...but ive always been pure APu
Hehe, thank you. kurai gave the short, more mature argument of what I said. Thats EXACTLY what people who want their hybreds back are...selfish children. you want your power, screw everyone else. At very least, be like the hybreds i could respect because they understood they were overpowered: "yeah i admit im way overpowered, but why not ride it untill its nerfed?" Then when the nerf came, they knew it was goona come and went apu or ppu, and are having fun.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Thats EXACTLY what people who want their hybreds back are...selfish children. you want your power, screw everyone else.
im afraid i have to return to this thread.
both me and hinch have agreed the OLD hybrid WAS overpowered.
Originally posted by Omnituens
I say adjust (read: correct) the APU<--->PPU nerf calculation.
then work from there.
were in there do i say i want the nerf REMOVED?
we want them made viable, not overpowered. will you read our posts ffs.
Originally posted by kurai
Live with it, like the rest of the population had to live with the ludicrous imbalance of hybrids for so long.
That's a good point. But my issue about hybrids is that they can
parashock, damage boost, and attack which is two seperate
support roles being used from one person. This game is supposed
to be teamwork orientated, KK doesn't want people to not have
a reason to depend on others for help..they encourage it and
makes changes necessary to retify it.
If a runner can use blessed shelter/holy heal/parashock/damage
boost etc. Why would they need help from anyone? I feel the
hybrid nerf was awesome, cause now there are monks dedicated
at doing their real jobs, buffbitch and attackbitch, not selfishbitch :)
Originally posted by Omnituens
hinch, I fully support the council idea. shame you're not on the council that listens to player ideas :D
why im a clueless fool !!
Originally posted by VetteroX
And defelctor + heavy defelctor belts? lib and pain easer dont do shit to a capped hybred. Even when its hurting him with DB on, he just runs around with his fucking 100 + agil with heal on and is back to full hp.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
everyone knows theres a bug with deflector belts they increase the damage you take if combined with a holy deflector
o_O
Progenitor
05-09-03, 20:53
I just want apu's to be able to use the low level heals and buffs that the average Tank can use at a MINIMUM and no more than than what a PE can use at a maximum.
-p
If I want to play as a member of a team all the time, i would play TFC or CS (which, btw, i do)
I don't want to have to get a PPU strapped to my arse every time i want to go tech hunting, and i dont want to call in an offensive class when i want to level.
That is why im a hybrid.
Not because of uberness, but because i enjoy independence.
don't get me wrong, i enjoy a good team hunting session or an OP war or two, but i like to get out in the wasteland now and then and hunt alone.
Now, if your scared of the 'return of the hybrids' a correction in the forumla wont make everyone rush back to hybrids. they still will be nerfed, but will be more viable.
as stated, the nerf is about 47% reduction, when it was orginally supposed to be 30%, I say drop it to 35%, then go from there.
You get your nerf, I get viability.
Ain't nuttin wrong wit dat, biatch.
I did read your post, even a WEAKER hybred is still too powerful. You can still solo, I watch apus solo wbs all day, they use terrain to block attacks. They are great pkers, the tagets dead before they know whats hitting them.
Hinch, the heavy defelctor belt wasnt meant with hold def, it was ment for the blessed def you "weaker" hybred would be using. In my tests it reduced damage. And "known fact" dont mean shit, it was a "known fact" theres a resit flip... lol, bullshit.
Originally posted by VetteroX
You can still solo, I watch apus solo wbs all day
some of us dont want to solo wb's, SPIES can do that ffs :D
i prefer more exotic prey.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules ] just beacuse someone says something that is correct and aginst your cause doesnt mean your right. your acting like a 12 yearold kid that cant take criticism.
Originally posted by Omnituens
I don't want to have to get a PPU strapped to my arse every time i want to go tech hunting, and i dont want to call in an offensive class when i want to level.
That is why im a hybrid.
Now you must know how it feels for other classes, your showing
your selfish colors right in the quote alone. Your playing err.. I
mean you used to play a game that's main goal is that you won't
die alone, but you seem to have already have.
The only hybrids that should be exist and do today are game-
masters, who can also use the best offense and defensive for
some strange reason :wtf:
Nobody will admit when their wrong :(
:angel:
I read a comment regarding they dont cap there dmg % etc. Well, Im not sure that is 100% true..On saturn, zX, and Harvey Birdman, im aware capped there holy lightning, could run cast somewhat and cap there PPU holy shelters/holy heals.
erm no
i'm not sure about zX but i know FOR A FACT that harv didnt cap HL or holy buffs (without Psi 3); in fact the numbers were around 410%, not cap.
Hybs cant (couldnt) cap holy level buffs (576%) or beams (648%) without psi 3.
and run cast only works on beams if u cap int and put everything into psu (214 psu); tho again run cast is depending on your run speed, so i'm talkin about full 60-65 ath and 110 agil.
you know. I thought I was gonna hate being pure.But to be honest, now I fight unbuffed a lot. there isn't allways a ppu around you know, and I hate worryng "when is my buff gonna run out" and as a hibrid I hated not being able to runcast.
yes i had the same problem; so now as pure apu i pwnz even more because A.) i can run cast anything (or close in terms of antibuff), B.) i dont need to worry about buffs, C.) i r fast as hell :D
Also as I said before they nerfed hibrids, I would kill the nerf cryers, and well hopefully I did by now. I have killed so many people I know one of them must have been a "nerf teh hibrids" fruit.
damn straight! :D :D :D
I don't want to have to get a PPU strapped to my arse every time i want to go tech hunting, and i dont want to call in an offensive class when i want to level.
Originally posted by FBI
Now you must know how it feels for other classes, your showing
your selfish colors right in the quote alone. Your playing err.. I
mean you used to play a game that's main goal is that you won't
die alone, but you seem to have already have.
The only hybrids that should be exist and do today are game-
masters, who can also use the best offense and defensive for
some strange reason :wtf:
Nobody will admit when their wrong :(
:angel:
erm lets see: my /40 PE can solo everything from 50/50 to 120/120 fire mobs; my spy was lvling off 120/120 chasers from /50, my tank plvld at /30 with firemobs...
apus... lets see... erm...
its DOABLE, not impossible, to solo high lvl mobs without a ppu; but the fact that apus cant heal is wut makes them weaker than most other classes because at least they have an easier chance to solo things without getting torn up... but even with a low lvl ppu, apus can reach the soloing ability of other classes... but then they;re not soloing...
I still dont see how that article which talks about hybrids in Single PLayer Games has anything to do with hybrids in MMO's.......
Originally posted by FBI
Now you must know how it feels for other classes, your showing
your selfish colors right in the quote alone. Your playing err.. I
mean you used to play a game that's main goal is that you won't
die alone, but you seem to have already have.
The only hybrids that should be exist and do today are game-
masters, who can also use the best offense and defensive for
some strange reason :wtf:
Nobody will admit when their wrong :(
:angel:
my tank and my pe could nearly solo EVERYTHING.... xcept some caves....so wtf are you talking about ?
with my ppu i just sit in plaza THE WHOLE DAY waiting for a fight or for someone who wants to lvl ( i gave that up anyway... int lvl = the sux )....fun fun fun... if i didnt have my 2nd acc i would have quit out of boredom after the patch...
i say make all monks hybrids like they always were... since beta 4 i play a hybrid ffs
then balance the spells or take some out ....
.cy
/e oh i forgot i nearly capped my spy too without a ppu :rolleyes:
2nd e / oh and btw... if i look at the hull of my nc cds.. i can read its ideal for solo / team or clanplay.... solo ? huh ? where ? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
my tank and my pe could nearly solo EVERYTHING.... xcept some caves....so wtf are you talking about ?
with my ppu i just sit in plaza THE WHOLE DAY waiting for a fight or for someone who wants to lvl ( i gave that up anyway... int lvl = the sux )....fun fun fun... if i didnt have my 2nd acc i would have quit out of boredom after the patch...
i say make all monks hybrids like they always were... since beta 4 i play a hybrid ffs
then balance the spells or take some out ....
.cy
/e oh i forgot i nearly capped my spy too without a ppu :rolleyes:
2nd e / oh and btw... if i look at the hull of my nc cds.. i can read its ideal for solo / team or clanplay.... solo ? huh ? where ? :rolleyes:
Guess what, apu can solo whatever tanks, pes, and spies can. Gostly and I even think Shadow Dancer solo grims at cycrow. Hell Gostly even went to gaya and was still able to solo the grims with all the fire mobs there.
Btw if you don't have fun on your ppu then you should reroll it to something you like. KK most likely won't bring hybrids back so you might as well.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
2nd e / oh and btw... if i look at the hull of my nc cds.. i can read its ideal for solo / team or clanplay.... solo ? huh ? where ? :rolleyes:
It isnt solo but solo* now.
*Solo in Neocron means you and your PPU.
Basically what it comes down to is the PPU requirement:
solo = you + your PPU
team = your + your PPU
clan = whoever + PPUs ("shit, no PPUs online, we cant get/protect that OP").
Convert monks to redesinged hybrids and let buffs be only selfcast...
Originally posted by Lucjan
It isnt solo but solo* now.
*Solo in Neocron means you and your PPU.
Basically what it comes down to is the PPU requirement:
solo = you + your PPU
team = your + your PPU
clan = whoever + PPUs ("shit, no PPUs online, we cant get/protect that OP").
Convert monks to redesinged hybrids and let buffs be only selfcast...
Want to know why everyone brings ppus with them? It's because people don't like dieing so they bring a ppu with them. It doesn't mean you can't go solo, you can but you will have a pretty good chance die. I remember before there were ppus and everywhere I went I went by myself and I died alot. But now with ppus I don't die nearly as much.
Progenitor
05-09-03, 22:09
I do a decent job of soloing on my own right now - as long as I remember to change my heavy belt for the job at hand.
You'd be surprised how fast you can die to a terror when you are wearing a poison belt instead of a fire one.
I have a much harder time soloing the caves now. It is still doable, but a lot more scary.
I can't solo the poison caves at all - I can't heal fast enough, which is why I want theo low level heals and buffs that all other classes can use.
-p
http://www.nichtlustig.de/comics/full/020906.jpg
that one goes to starters Toppic. dont know if it was u intention to point on that news or say I want my Hyb back because everyone have. but it all remind me off that image.
for all our non germanz.
Title:
Lemming Mothers
So u think u need that scooter because everyone have one? and if all kids jump of that cliff then .......
okok i buy it.
QuantumDelta
05-09-03, 22:41
Whilst I realise, just as Vet does, how some variations of Hybrids, even without holy shelter/deflector are overpowered, I do want hybrids back, and viable, just, no where near what they used to be.
No one, should be forced out of what they were.
Most people are hybrids, not because the hybrid is overpowered, but, because they are self-sufficient, just the same as my Pistol PE.
PEs, especially Pistolers, IMO, are the new Hybrids, in terms of classes that are self-sufficient in combat.
What do these two have in common? Proficient PSI Powers.
Hybrids should not be penalised because of the past Hybrid power, it should be viable, however, it should not go back to what it was.
PE's are jack of all trades so they should be hybrids, but thir
balanced.
Monks are either apu or ppu supporters.
QuantumDelta
05-09-03, 22:45
I see the PE as a Hybrid of the tank and the spy...
Meanwhile, Monks are really, three classes...
or should have been...
If they wasnt so unbelievably rock fucking solid Hinch, then tell me, why on earth do they need to come back? i just cant figure u out, a bitcher or a whiner? hmm....
Let me rephrase urself..... "i want hybrids back because no one could kill me, now my pure can die *boo fucking hoo*" sounds more 'down to earth' to me :rolleyes:
KK made the best choice they could ever make, removed the fucking gimps of nc, HYBRIDS!.
Let me start ur sentance for u hinch.....plz.
"Alig, u really have no fucking idea do u......" (lead on hinch)
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 23:13
Originally posted by VetteroX
Heres people Id nominate: Me, Kramer, QD, Nish, Smokey, Evileye, Pitspawn, Psycho Killa, From what I hear, Rizzy, although he hasnt fought me yet.
It's not just about knowledge in the game, it's about being unbiased(if even possible, at least TRY to be unbiased) and also not letting your emotions cloud your thinking.
For example, because Evileye lost to a few apus, he wanted to nerf apus and make them unable to do locational damage or take a hit to offense. That's lame Vet and you know it. Their are a few other examples that I won't get into. Perhaps the only people I'd nominate from taht list you mentioned is QD and MAYBE kramer. I wouldn't exactly call you unbiased, but you did say blacksun was overpowered so that's a few points there. :p
Originally posted by VetteroX
If their argument is "give me my god char back, screw people who cant beat a char with 90% damage reduction and an insane heal with good offence" I treat em like the fools they are.
But what if KK could balance it so that hybrids were a viable option and didn't dominate everything in their path?
What about the people who played hybrids because it's the most fun class for them(like pe for you) and not because it was TEH 1337 dominator?
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Well, Im not sure that is 100% true..On saturn, zX, and Harvey Birdman, im aware capped there holy lightning, could run cast somewhat and cap there PPU holy shelters/holy heals.
That's impossible.
Even pre-hybrid nerf that was impossible.
Originally posted by VetteroX
Hehe, thank you. kurai gave the short, more mature argument of what I said. Thats EXACTLY what people who want their hybreds back are...selfish children. you want your power, screw everyone else. At very least, be like the hybreds i could respect because they understood they were overpowered: "yeah i admit im way overpowered, but why not ride it untill its nerfed?" Then when the nerf came, they knew it was goona come and went apu or ppu, and are having fun.
But not all "bring back hybrid" people want their OVERPOWERED hybrid back, they just want *A* hybrid back.
Originally posted by Progenitor
I just want apu's to be able to use the low level heals and buffs that the average Tank can use at a MINIMUM and no more than than what a PE can use at a maximum.
-p
I agree. It's freaking stupid a PSI master(apu) can't cast the low level buffs and heals that a gen-tank(which technically wasn't supopsed to have psi) can cast.
Originally posted by Omnituens
some of us dont want to solo wb's, SPIES can do that ffs :D
i prefer more exotic prey.
Like what? With heavy poison belt, and some natural poison resist(hell you can cap con so easily, why not temporarily put tons of points into poison) you can do the swamp caves.
Grims are already easy to handle.
You wanna do mc5 alone? :p
Originally posted by petek480
Guess what, apu can solo whatever tanks, pes, and spies can. Gostly and I even think Shadow Dancer solo grims at cycrow. Hell Gostly even went to gaya and was still able to solo the grims with all the fire mobs there.
Yea I do. I get tons of tech parts all for myself. The high damage really kills them so fast, in a sense killing them extremely fast is a form of defense.
I just wish medkits weighed less and worked better, or maybe a high level mana costly leech spell.
Originally posted by petek480
Btw if you don't have fun on your ppu then you should reroll it to something you like. KK most likely won't bring hybrids back so you might as well.
The sad part is, I don't think KK plans to bring them back. Or at least not for a good while. Callash said pistol spy wasn't really meant to be a viable path, soemthing like that. That's why their are 2 pas per class per "viable path". And since there's no hybrid pa.......
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Whilst I realise, just as Vet does, how some variations of Hybrids, even without holy shelter/deflector are overpowered, I do want hybrids back, and viable, just, no where near what they used to be.
No one, should be forced out of what they were.
Most people are hybrids, not because the hybrid is overpowered, but, because they are self-sufficient, just the same as my Pistol PE.
PEs, especially Pistolers, IMO, are the new Hybrids, in terms of classes that are self-sufficient in combat.
What do these two have in common? Proficient PSI Powers.
Hybrids should not be penalised because of the past Hybrid power, it should be viable, however, it should not go back to what it was.
QD for council!
Originally posted by FBI
PE's are jack of all trades so they should be hybrids, but thir
balanced.
Monks are either apu or ppu supporters.
JOAT my ass. Someone who has tank defense or slightly better, with the ability to heal faster than other non ppu classes and stealth.
Sorry but the whole "JOAT" label is bullshit IMO.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Meanwhile, Monks are really, three classes...
or should have been...
Maybe you're right.
Maybe you chose PSI monk, and should have been able to choose apu, ppu, or hybrid.
Maybe their can be an epu req on all spells. It would be much higher than the apu or ppu req, but it means you can use spells from both categories if you have high enough epu. It could be like the hybrid req.
do a hybrid req instead of the MST; then pures can cap stuff; and hybs would be viable but will need the mst replacement req so they cant cap all their neato stuff; and increase the reqs (apu/ppu) of all spells by 10 or 20...
o nad the hyb req is only required if u have more than 0 base skill in the other "class" (i.e. only if u have both apu and ppu)
Shadow Dancer
05-09-03, 23:21
Originally posted by mdares
do a hybrid req instead of the MST; then pures can cap stuff; and hybs would be viable but will need the mst replacement req so they cant cap all their neato stuff; and increase the reqs (apu/ppu) of all spells by 10 or 20...
o nad the hyb req is only required if u have more than 0 base skill in the other "class" (i.e. only if u have both apu and ppu)
I just said that noob. :p
bah soz i'm in lab; cant read everything this carefully... need to make sure i diunt blow shit up...
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What about the people who played hybrids because it's the most fun class for them(like pe for you) and not because it was TEH 1337 dominator?
Now your seeing it from my, and a few others, PoV. Gaming = fun.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
But not all "bring back hybrid" people want their OVERPOWERED hybrid back, they just want *A* hybrid back.
Again, seeing it from mine and Hinch's veiw. though i kept my hybrid so no lomming 4 me :D
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Like what? With heavy poison belt, and some natural poison resist(hell you can cap con so easily, why not temporarily put tons of points into poison) you can do the swamp caves.
Grims are already easy to handle.
If you think i consider Grims 'prey'. then im insulted.
poison is no problem either. No challenge = no fun.
Chaos Caves and Wormtunnels solo: now your getting somewhere. THIS is my line of solo 'fun' prey. problem is there is usually already a team in the chaos caves. that leaves me with the Worm tunnels.
for techs, however, i used to log on my spy, because it was a challenge to kill grims on that character, add to that a lower rank.
its all about the challenge.
but since the nerf, i didnt want to go places with my monk because he was nerfed. it was no fun to play as.
thats why I started to take my n00b tank and spy to OP fights
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Re-opened. I know this is a touchy subject but please try not to flame each other. Thanks.
N
Shadow Dancer
06-09-03, 00:13
The only reason i don't solo chaos caves with my apu is because of the yoyo bug.
Yoyo bug=1 hit leg cripple regardless of resist
leg cripple=death
I've only been to worm tunnels once. I don't like going there because I like my fps to be more than single digit.
you also fatal at very inappropiate times. in both those caves. but thats a different matter.
but if you didnt have the yoyo health and fatals and crap FPS, you would have fun in these places, yes? like i did pre-nerf.
DeepThought
06-09-03, 00:28
Decide what is considered "balanced" first; before you make any suggestions on how to improve it.
Either duels or opfights, or a combination of both?
Current situation:
Hybrids are balanced in duels now.
Hybrids are 100% useless in opfights now.
Situation before last patch:
Hybrids won all duels.
Hybrids were noticeably weaker than pures in opfights.
Happy discussion.
/DT
(who quit nc cause of all this specialization bs)
Shadow Dancer
06-09-03, 00:32
Originally posted by Omnituens
but if you didnt have the yoyo health and fatals and crap FPS, you would have fun in these places, yes?
hell yea.
Originally posted by DeepThought
Hybrids are balanced in duels now.
They are?
DeepThought
06-09-03, 00:35
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
They are?
I still won most duels with mine, before i sold the account. About 3 weeks ago that is. So i consider that balanced - how about giving some arguments and/or opinons instead of just using that absolutely useless question?
/DT
Shadow Dancer
06-09-03, 00:51
Originally posted by DeepThought
how about giving some arguments and/or opinons instead of just using that absolutely useless question?
I already gave arguements and opinions in my previous posts. I was just asking you a question, there's no need for that nasty attitude. Grow up. :rolleyes:
and my argument is u cant bring A hybred back because any variation would be too powerful.... a few can already beat good tanks 1vs1, so tl 25 shelter and tl 3 - 35 def + HL = too good. Blessed shelter and a high damage on the best energy beam also are too good. MAYBE energy beam, tl 3 heal tl 9 sanc, tl 25 shelter and high damage energy beam would be acceptable.... but even thats pushing it in my opinion.
Also, the arguemtn that they dont want a "l33t" hybred back, just wanna solo mobs doesnt work, because some people will find a way to make it unbeatable 1vs1 pvp again. And, APU's CAN solo, use the terrain. You just may have a real tough time with 110/110 and 120/120... but guess what? you should, and we all do.
only thing left here commenting on is
alig :lol: :lol: :lol:
please reread what has been said as ive said before and i`ll say it again in big print so you can understand it
hybrids need resurecting but NOT as powerfull as before they need to be properly balanced NOT sledgehammered
you find a tank or a pure fun thats your job i find a hybrid fun
and it has nothing to do with being "ubaaarrrr unkilliable monkeh" it has to do with having fun in the game when my friends/clan were busy away or whatever or when i just didnt wanna go fight yet another op war.
omni i could solo chaos caves quite easily never tried crystal caves or wrm tunnels though.
gaya i did once but the number of crashes wasnt worth it to go back
QuantumDelta
06-09-03, 01:51
Alig, not flaming ya or anythin man, but the reason most people loved hybrids over Pures, is that Pures are Dependant on eachother, or others...
Hybrids could solo, or could stand on their own two feet in op wars.
You still, occasionally, see me, in op wars, using my own buffs (PE Buffs) not the PPUs buffs, because a) I like to be completely self-dependant, and b) I don't like to trouble the PPU, Especially if there are Tanks, and APUs around who need more attention than I do.
Hybrids were, for the most part, the same.
Typically, a hybrids HL/FA SUCKED, against me, I can take a few APU HLs, but Hybrid HLs? Ask Hinch about that :lol:
DeepThought throws in good pointage, although, I would still somewhat say hybrids were a bit too much even on the op war field, they didn't not deserve to be utterly destroyed in terms of op war potential.
Edit;
BTW, Hinch.
QD Can/Could Solo;
BQ
Chaos(Less leuits the easier).
Gaya(Friggin hp bounce bugs fixed so easy).
BVK(I can take two BVK Poison Stacks before Dying, so this guy dies, it takes a while, nothing else in there is hard.).
Apparition(I've even heard of tanks soloing this place).
I feel like I missed somewhere O_o
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
BTW, Hinch.
QD Can/Could Solo;
Apparition(I've even heard of tanks soloing this place).
I feel like I missed somewhere O_o
hmmm.... you'll need a mightly-fine laser pistol (thought you were low-tech?) to do that. whats the range on them? its well over 150m from the shore to the appartion cave. and thats if you can target it.
i doubt even a PPU could go up to the surface in the cave and last long enough to parashock everything to death :confused:
you missed Mr. Harbinger.
Originally posted by DeepThought
Decide what is considered "balanced" first; before you make any suggestions on how to improve it.
Either duels or opfights, or a combination of both?
Current situation:
Hybrids are balanced in duels now.
Hybrids are 100% useless in opfights now.
Situation before last patch:
Hybrids won all duels.
Hybrids were noticeably weaker than pures in opfights.
Happy discussion.
/DT
(who quit nc cause of all this specialization bs)
Erm, not quite. You could win an OP fight by just sending your hybrids in. We had countless OP wars where we'd be tied up at one OP, and get a hack message at another, so we'd get geared up to go to the other OP, next thing we know Harvey Birdman had taken on an entire clan by himself and killed them all.
I think it's a good idea that they are gone, although it was SO fun being able to kill 10 tanks and 10 pes at the same time :P
DeepThought
06-09-03, 03:05
Originally posted by Scikar
Erm, not quite. You could win an OP fight by just sending your hybrids in. We had countless OP wars where we'd be tied up at one OP, and get a hack message at another, so we'd get geared up to go to the other OP, next thing we know Harvey Birdman had taken on an entire clan by himself and killed them all.
Bad clan. Good Mr. Birdman. Skill is a factor too, of course.
As soon as there are PPUs involved on the other side, Hybrids lose at equal playerskill. If they still win, they deserved it.
And now this is an "i have seen xy doing a whole clan alone" statement thing. Thats no way objective at all.
And again... i never said i want the old hybrids back. It's a trade-off. All depends on what is considered balanced. Either balanced in duels, or balanced in opfights. Both cannot be achieved. Thats impossible.
Maybe a middle-way, but there will never be found a solution which pleases most people.
/DT
Shadow Dancer
06-09-03, 03:05
I consider tanks balanced in duels and op fights.
SO I don't think that's asking too much for hybrids to be the same.
DeepThought
06-09-03, 03:08
Cant be done.
Tanks get a good boost from the op-fight's PPUs, as well as every other char except the hybrid. In duels, tanks just have themselves.
Hybrids doing duels are as strong as hybrids doing opfights. They dont profit from PPUs.
Thats why you cannot balance hybrids for both.
/DT
Shadow Dancer
06-09-03, 03:10
Originally posted by DeepThought
Cant be done.
Tanks get a good boost from the op-fight's PPUs, as well as every other char except the hybrid. In duels, tanks just have themselves.
Hybrids doing duels are as strong as hybrids doing opfights. They dont profit from PPUs.
Thats why you cannot balance hybrids for both.
/DT
What about changing chips for op fights? Like putting in attack chips and getting psi 3 from a ppu, it could be like a hybrid that can be ppu or apu at op fight. They can also heal other people and damage boost the enemy. That's a bigger role than pes or spies play IMO.
QuantumDelta
06-09-03, 03:16
Solo'd Harby too.
Btw, it looks like i know something you don't omni :p
And, Longest Laser Pistol Range AFAIK is the uhh tangent thing with 200ish m...
Non-PSI Weaponry doesn't work from outside the water on objects inside the water, afaik....
That's OT :P
My point was, if a Pistol PE, is allowed to Solo all these things (admittedly, several skills and tricks required) Hybrids should also be allowed to have at least this level of proficiency, in cavin, op wars, and dueling.
Maybe hybrids should be reduced to blessed stuff and then have something done with their attack...however, remember, hybrids, any hybrids, will have to deal with the PSI 3 Exploit from now on, not just the TL3 Exploit.....
DeepThought
06-09-03, 03:17
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
What about changing chips for op fights? Like putting in attack chips and getting psi 3 from a ppu, it could be like a hybrid that can be ppu or apu at op fight. They can also heal other people and damage boost the enemy. That's a bigger role than pes or spies play IMO.
What you describe is the role of a PPU... with the difference, that the hybrid is way way way weaker at it. You dont want a hybrid heal... believe me, you dont :P And the PPU buff just screws up a hybrid's PPU skills more.
--> useless
Spies and PEs do damage at least.
/DT
Shadow Dancer
06-09-03, 03:20
Originally posted by DeepThought
You dont want a hybrid heal... believe me, you dont
I do if it's the only heal I can get.
Sure he may be a weaker ppu, but he'll still be of GREAT assistance to the team. And when the op fight is over he can go back to hybrid mode and fight on his own, unlike the ppu. So he'll have special advantages, even if he isnt' as good as a pure in an op war.
And btw, he can buff himself in the op war which IMO is great. I hate when a ppu forgets to buff my apu. :rolleyes:
QuantumDelta
06-09-03, 03:26
If they honestly forget to buff you, they're a bad PPU.
Most often, PPUs are too busy.
heh...
DeepThought
06-09-03, 03:28
"Better than nothing" is not an argument. A 20/20 spy helping in an opfight is better than nothing too, still not what this discussion is about.
I dont feel like going on discussing it, makes me feel sad.
Last question to think about, i dont want an answer on the board here:
Would you want to play a character, which has to change 1-2 implants every time one of your ops gets hacked? Would you want a character, which is only useful for dmg boosts in opfights and cant do much more? Would you want a character who's only good at duels (whats a duel good for, anyways?) ?
/DT
*zzzZZzz*
Shadow Dancer
06-09-03, 03:30
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
If they honestly forget to buff you, they're a bad PPU.
oooooooooooooooooooooooo
:(
I've bitched about that. For 3 op wars in a row(like 2 weeks ago) I wasn't buffed prebattle when I repeatedly asked for it.
Stuff like that makes me hate ppus and "needing" them in op wars ticks me off.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Most often, PPUs are too busy.
heh...
During battle, ur right. But pre-battle......................
Ppus have to do so much stupid buffing.
I think there should be a 2nd quickbelt accessible by holding the alt button. Then they can carry group spells. Increase teh range on group spells, make shelter/deflector count down AFTER the first hit, combine all weapon buffs into "weapon buff 3"(who has more than 1 weapon skill? NO ONE!), etc.... Stuff like that can cut down on the stress of being a ppu, thereby making them more attractive to people and having more people play one.
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