View Full Version : MERGING servers
___T-X____
04-09-03, 23:59
right, I hate these threads, but people repeatedly spawn bullshit about 'KK merging servers'. You make it sound like you get a fucking Pritt-stick out and glue them together....
Im no techy, but it seems pretty obvious to me that you cant merge a server like you can with a Mail merge on MS Word.
not to flame KK, but they cant even tell you your Inventory half an hour before a bug hence the 100k payment for lost items, so how the fuck would they 'Merge' servers ?. I would imagine it would take a team of unbelieveable sized team to 'merge', with an unaccountable potential risk and expenditure to consider doing this.
Also, Uranus is unexplainably bugged, theres no way they want to infect the pluto or saturn one with the server crash bug thats inside uranus.
Is there anyway a Dev or Mod could just pls tell me whether it would be something KK would consider within the next 2 years.
Im fucking sick of reading merge posts and threads
cheers
Well on the technical side...
Hardware-wise you would end up ditching one of the servers unless you wanted to get into a more complicated setup. For instance merging Saturn and Uranus... I would think there are tables for users, clans, apartments, etc. They could append the Uranus tables onto the Saturn tables and in effect 'merge' the servers... but then Uranus would be a couple-thousand dollar paperweight. Also depending on their db setup this might not even be possible. I wish they would let me see their source code... :)
They could remove one server and make a complete item/char
whipe on some other server, then tell us that they're merged :P
Merging servers with all char items and shit.. nah
I agree the people who say these thinks are dickless no brains
The zones of a single world are load-balanced over multiple physical servers so it's not even that straight-forward I'm afraid.
N
___T-X____
05-09-03, 00:07
in english mate ? i got 2 gcses, and im not a rocket scientist
Originally posted by d3ik
Well on the technical side...
Hardware-wise you would end up ditching one of the servers unless you wanted to get into a more complicated setup. For instance merging Saturn and Uranus... I would think there are tables for users, clans, apartments, etc. They could append the Uranus tables onto the Saturn tables and in effect 'merge' the servers... but then Uranus would be a couple-thousand dollar paperweight. Also depending on their db setup this might not even be possible. I wish they would let me see their source code...
Originally posted by Nidhogg
The zones of a single world are load-balanced over multiple physical servers so it's not even that straight-forward I'm afraid.
N
pwn3d :) Actually I'm impressed, I would like to see KK's farm. I wish that a Reakktor official could give us the specifics (not any security comprises), but just some idea of how everything is setup. I've always been curious.
they CANT merge servers full stop. You know why?!? because of char name collisions, Apt password/location collisions, the ammount of database fuckups that is guaranteed to happen if they even try this plus probably more things i cant be arsed to think of
Originally posted by d3ik
pwn3d :) Actually I'm impressed, I would like to see KK's farm. I wish that a Reakktor official could give us the specifics (not any security comprises), but just some idea of how everything is setup. I've always been curious.
I Think its something silly like 40 P4 2 ghz boxes with like 2 gig of RAM in each machine
[Edit] shat, meant to edit not double post =/
Very true, Fenyx. Although there are work-arounds for those types of problems, in the end the work is greater than the gain. If people want to play on different servers I say just do it the old fashioned way and create a new account.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
they CANT merge servers full stop. You know why?!? because of char name collisions, Apt password/location collisions, the ammount of database fuckups that is guaranteed to happen if they even try this plus probably more things i cant be arsed to think of
and the fact people dont want their chars deleting, any of them and why should they have to, they paid for their chars :p
Originally posted by Nidhogg
The zones of a single world are load-balanced over multiple physical servers so it's not even that straight-forward I'm afraid.
N
Bladed servers. Simple explanation (dunno how exactly NC is set up) you have one or more main servers handling communication between a bunch of other servers. The other servers (one per zone) can handle all the "AI" plus X amount of people per server before performance drops. This is the reason Plaza 1 can and does lag, and places like, oh I dunno... your apartment rarely does. They've probably got other side-servers to handle things like chat and Citycoms.
I don't see KK merging servers any time soon, unless they have to. If they come out with another game, and need the servers for that, maybe. If a volcano pops up next to the building and covers 1/2 the servers with lava, then maybe.
Why would they want to? They're gonna spend the same money on bandwidth, and increase loads on servers that are already having lag/sync problems. Why would they possibly want to make that worse? It woulnd't cut thier costs nearly at all, unless all these servers are leased or something. Doubt that.
These are the Neocron servers:
http://reakktor.com/Company/ServerHQ_06_full.jpg
Edit: Looking at that picture, then looking at my own desk covered in beer bottles and frozen burrito wrappers, I have a very strong desire to go there and knock over those red and white pole thingies. That place is way too neat and tidy.
Vampire222
05-09-03, 00:38
holy fookies
Originally posted by Cass
These are the Neocron servers:
http://reakktor.com/Company/ServerHQ_06_full.jpg
I was imagining a room with server boxes (towers) hastily stacked on top of one another with a safe in the corner marked "DOY" and MJS dangling a key from his hand and laughing at us.
Originally posted by d3ik
I was imagining a room with server boxes (towers) hastily stacked on top of one another with a safe in the corner marked "DOY" and MJS dangling a key from his hand and laughing at us.
but the key's arent to the door, theyr to the 10 blokes in gimp suits that are chained up just out of the picture, also known as the DoY DEV Team o.O
u see the red and white poles thats the entrance to the basement baragin section where kk keeps there servers and the reason that the servers some times fuk up is cause martin keeps his dog down there and its spilled its water bowl on the 486s
Originally posted by d3ik
I was imagining a room with server boxes (towers) hastily stacked on top of one another with a safe in the corner marked "DOY" and MJS dangling a key from his hand and laughing at us.
You were imagining actual servers and a real safe? I was just imagining a bunch of card board boxes and one of those little toy safes you can buy at a toy store for $20
Clothing_Option
05-09-03, 01:14
Originally posted by Nidhogg
The zones of a single world are load-balanced over multiple physical servers so it's not even that straight-forward I'm afraid.
N
It is even possible to do given the technology thats been used without data loss.e.g. I lose all my shit?
If Not fuck that
combining servers has been done before in MMORPG's
Asheron's call 2
http://www.microsoftgameinsider.com/AC2/Support/worldconsol.htm
I assume they got it to work.
Combine Saturn and Uranus, just give me an eight character server.
yes I am using every character slot on every server.
Helen Angilley
05-09-03, 01:21
Originally posted by mr murb
combining servers has been done before in MMORPG's
Asheron's call 2
http://www.microsoftgameinsider.com/AC2/Support/worldconsol.htm
I assume they got it to work.
Combine Saturn and Uranus, just give me an eight character server.
yes I am using every character slot on every server.
"Microsoft"
Think that explains a lot.
neophotographer
05-09-03, 01:55
unless they want to increase the amount of character slots on any one server, the merging of servers can not work because of people losing stuff, the potential for complete bugs, characters being lost....just think if pluto was merged with saturn and only 4 slots still.....the people from saturn that use all 4 slots and play on pluto would hate it because if they got a good character on pluto it gets deleted or one o ftheir saturn characters does. that leads to a lot of angry people, and frnakly if you completly wiped my tank right now I'd seriously be considering leaving. It took me about 3+ months to get it where it is now, and I don't want to have to do that again without having an already made tank I can go play if I don't want to level.
Stacey
Merging servers to increase players on the server is just a quick fix at best. And unless they doubled the player slots so no one lost characters, they'd probably end up losing a lot of people anyways.
Originally posted by \\Fényx//
they CANT merge servers full stop. You know why?!? because of char name collisions, Apt password/location collisions, the ammount of database fuckups that is guaranteed to happen if they even try this plus probably more things i cant be arsed to think of
AC2 figured out how to handle this(if they can, so can KK). AC2 just added the server name to the char name. So "Killer", who played on Saturn, would be named "Killer of Saturn" on the merged server. Then each char was given 1 rename credit, so they could rename their char if they wanted.
Originally posted by mr murb
Combine Saturn and Uranus, just give me an eight character server.
yes I am using every character slot on every server.
8 slot server eh? :eek:
:D I like it, maybe not the merge part but I'd sure like a few more slots on Saturn.
Fortunately I have 2 PCs next to each other on my desk so starting up a second account might be a better idea, use both accounts simultaneously.
I agree with Fenix - I think it would be far, far too problematic to merge gameservers unless it was ABSOLUTELY necessary. As to the AC2 technique, I'm not sure the mechanics are in place to allow players to rename their characters. GMs probably can, but if they do it that way the GMs are going to be flat-out doing just that for weeks.
I'm not about to start thread-hijacking, but I'd just like to add that I still like the idea of turning Saturn into Neptune. It's half-way there with it's playerbase already. Not that it's going to happen, because it would involve a char wipe, and too many people would go ballistic.
Shock.
Cypher_Psy
05-09-03, 17:17
Name collisions ...
Wouldn't be a problem if everyone had an internal unique serial number (that only existed in the database to separate players)
I'm guessing that people are identified by unique names, and which is why KK are very reluctant to change characters names because that would mean editing all their stuff to belong to the new name....(major pain in the ass)
If everyone had unique id numbers, then it wouldn't matter what people were called (hey even people called the same name!!) as they and their objects would be internally tagged by the id number, thus making renaming a doddle....
Originally posted by Cypher_Psy
If everyone had unique id numbers, then it wouldn't matter what people were called (hey even people called the same name!!) as they and their objects would be internally tagged by the id number, thus making renaming a doddle.... Even if that were the case you'd still have problems DMing people or adding them to your team etc., which one would would be chosen?
N
People having the same names just wouldn't work. What would happen when you tried to DM someone? How would the game differentiate between the two (or more) characters named the same thing? It's not just the item database mapping that would have to be completely rewritten.
And this is one of the core problems with merging servers.
Shock.
Edit: Damn!! Beaten to it by Nid! :( :mad: :D
You couldn't do it over night - but you could do it with some prep work:
You would need to identify all the conflicting keys - player names, clan names, lift codes etc and pre warn people of the imminent changes. You would also need to give people the power to change their name (make it a 1 shot deal otherwise it would be abused later)
Most of the issues would be in resolving conflicting names - getting the 2 parties to talk to each other... if they can't decide on name changes KK could do a server prefix and change em both (as a last resort)...
Physically merging 2 databases with identical relational schemas (and I'm making an assumption here... might be wrong, but if Saturn and Uranus having differing schemas then someone fucked up...) can be done provided the above work has been completed to resolve primary key conflicts.
If Neocron is a truly distributed peer to peer application capable of horizontal scaling (which I hugely doubt it is given the performance when a lot of people get in the same zone) then you could use some (all even) of the now redundant servers to boost performance.
The bottom line is most things can be done in principle. Its whether there would be a compelling reason to do this from KK's point of view. The organisation and downtime would be fairly significant for what reward? If the server's are purchased then they're already depreciating assets, if they're rented from L3 then smart move KK - you can save some cash
Cypher_Psy
05-09-03, 19:16
Quoth Nidhogg...
Even if that were the case you'd still have problems DMing people or adding them to your team etc., which one would would be chosen?
N
Maybe if it limited people to having a name unique to a class..
(or even class and choice of head model)
So there couldn't be two psi monks called "Bob", but a spy, tank, monk and PE could all be called "Bob".
When adding that person to your list, if you click on them, then you know which "Bob" you are on about, but if you try and DM them, then it presents you with a list to pick from (name and class).
! Maybe everyone has a barcode on their head or something which has their serial number on it, which players can scan, so they can be called what they like, but players can also see what their number is. ! (It is cyberpunk right?)
Just ideas ;)
LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN
http://www.waaazup.com/p/uploads/1/ncvsAo.JPG
The truth:
Would it be at all easy or even relatively simple to do? No.
What could possibly be in it for KK to do this? Nothing.
Why would they do it? They wouldn't.
Dude:
The name solution is simple, Just add "#2" to all the conflicting names! So i am futureman. Well say that someone is on Uranus with the same name. Well i instantly beomce "futureman#2"
C001? eh?
BTW this is a joke.
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