I have never cancelled an account so fast in my life! [Archive]

drekker

03-09-03, 04:13

Just some of the issues I faced when trying to learn/start this game:

1) I was given a handgun I couldn't use
2) I was given an attack drone without ammunition, and no detail on what ammo it uses and how to get some
3) EVERYTHING in the beginning area killed me (including the small scorpions)
4) As soon as tried to use the lift to my apartment it asked me for a password.....WHAT PASSWORD!!!!! I was never asked to set one!
5) The first mission I was given by the Maintentance chief, in the starter area, led me to a room full of backpacks. I wondered what they were until the robot I was supposed to kill stepped out and killed me in three shots. Apparently it does this to every other newby as well. Great game design! Really makes me want to keep playing.

You get the idea. The layout and concept of the game look cool, but the game designers did an appauling job. It's seems like they expect you to be an expert in the game the day you begin. The tútorial was a good idea, but bears no resemblance to the real game. It's easy to kill scorpions with all the guns they give you in the tutorial!

Drekker the extremely dissapointed.

SigmaDraconis

03-09-03, 04:20

:D

1) You specced skill wrong.
2) Drones dont use ammo.
3) How??!?!??!
4) It's your name hehe.
5) They give missions now ? o.0

All valid points really...we've been telling KK to fix most of this for quite sometime....I don't like MC5 generally because it will take awhile to learn about everything in an MMORPG, and MC5 doesnt accomplish anything.

VictorKruger

03-09-03, 04:21

Well for one thing reading the manual does wonders.
2. going to the newbie forum and asking questions does wonders.
3. doing searches in the newbie forums for answers to questions works wonders.
4 clicking and right-clicking on things usually gives you more options and can lead to answers to questions
5. carefully reading status boxes of items helps out alot

Sorry that you feel that this game is horrible. I do admit that KK has fouled up in some areas of the game and they are (hopefully) trying to fix those areas of the game

in no way my numbered points are suppose to match your numbered points

VK

nonamebrandeggs

03-09-03, 04:22

It's got a steep learning curve what can I say?

Scikar

03-09-03, 04:23

1) It gave you a handgun because you chose a template with high pistol combat. If you want a rifle you have to choose a template with high rifle combat.

2) Drones don't use ammo, you just equip them like a weapon and click to launch.

3) I'm guessing you picked a spy for your first class. Spies are generally quite weak defensively but they are cool once you get them levelled up high enough for stealth tools etc. I would recommend a tank or PE as a starter class.

4) The password is your character's name, and the tooltip in the starter area tells you so, as does the tooltip at the end of the offline tutorial.

5) The devs are aware that MC5 needs a lot of work and some renovation is planned.

I hope that you reconsider and perhaps try NC for a little while longer.

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 04:24

Welcome to Neocron, the MMOG with the worst newbie path on the market. It's really designed poorly, if it was designed at all and not just thrown together at the last minute. It's also partly responsible for the game having the lowest subscription rates in the market, but this doesn't seem to supply any motivation to the dev team to fix it.

All that aside, did you try to use the Help channel? I did and found out that I had to type my name in as a password to get to my apartment.

Once you get past the confusing part (which the devs seem to have no interest in fixing) the game is fun. You have a few more days, what server are you on? I'm sure that someone here would be willing to show you around.

MortuusLupus

03-09-03, 04:25

Not to be an ass or anything, but asking other players for help will clear up every single one of those problems.

1) Inventory is based on the class you picked at the start of the game, and yes there ought to be a description telling you what you'll be given (if there isn't one).

2) Drones don't use ammo

3) That's really just a tough luck scenario. Dying is a part of the game. Get used to it. You CAN move around, so if you're hurt, move away so that it can't hit you.

4) Your name is your password.

5) The solution is to kill weaker creatures to level up, then go in and use skill to kill the sentry bots. Again, don't just stand there and take it. That's how EverQuest works. Neocron plays like an FPS.

But yes, just about everyone will agree with you, that the starting area MC5 does, indeed, suck goat scrotum. But don't think it beneath you to ask other players for help. Going solo in this game cuts out half the fun.

EDIT: Gee whiz, I take my time to write stuff out and look what happens...80 people ahead of me :)

Girian

03-09-03, 04:26

Well, maybe after some time you would have figured out how to ask for help to other players. They would have told you you don't need ammo for drones. And for sure they'd give other pieces of advice. By the looks of it you're someone who gives up after 2 tries... too bad, you might have enjoyed the game if you hadn't given up so soon

Damn, you see what I mean... everyone is helpfull even on the forum :D

Scikar

03-09-03, 04:29

Originally posted by Alex Mars
Welcome to Neocron, the MMOG with the worst newbie path on the market. It's really designed poorly, if it was designed at all and not just thrown together at the last minute. It's also partly responsible for the game having the lowest subscription rates in the market, but this doesn't seem to supply any motivation to the dev team to fix it.

All that aside, did you try to use the Help channel? I did and found out that I had to type my name in as a password to get to my apartment.

Once you get past the confusing part (which the devs seem to have no interest in fixing) the game is fun. You have a few more days, what server are you on? I'm sure that someone here would be willing to show you around.

Don't mind Alex, he's just the current resident Troll, and hopefully will be moving on to one of the other games he loves to compare Neocron with.

Neocron might have a steep learning curve but it's worth at least giving it a try. Though one piece of advice I would give is to keep your Law Enforcer chip in for a while at least until you are used to combat.

CR@SH

03-09-03, 04:30

Also doing the offline tutorial first before jumping into the game usually clears up most of the questions.

Iffy Boatrace

03-09-03, 04:30

Sad but true.

So many of the things you cite have been around for eons and still never fixed.

When you create a new character, and you choose a title profession that you think may be appealing, you are often presented with an end product that can't use the weapons supplied, and is uninformed as to how to use the ones you can.

I wonder how many tanks LOM at mid level when they find that tanks are HC specific and they've set themselves up for rifles or pistols from the start.

A well put together noob area should be rife with information on character development and professional guidance. Giving noobs more money to GR out was not the answer to the problem, but rather an admission that they have no solution at all.

It's too bad the problems don't get more attention though, because getting and keeping new players is all that'll keep this game going.

Lady Boatrace weeps :(

SigmaDraconis

03-09-03, 04:30

Originally posted by Girian
Well, maybe after some time you would have figured out how to ask for help to other players. They would have told you you don't need ammo for drones. And for sure they'd give other pieces of advice. By the looks of it you're someone who gives up after 2 tries... too bad, you might have enjoyed the game if you hadn't given up so soon

Damn, you see what I mean... everyone is helpfull even on the forum :D

Exccellent point.. :D it is an MMO..try interacting lol

nonamebrandeggs

03-09-03, 04:30

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 04:35

Originally posted by Scikar
Don't mind Alex, he's just the current resident Troll, and hopefully will be moving on to one of the other games he loves to compare Neocron with.

Neocron might have a steep learning curve but it's worth at least giving it a try. Though one piece of advice I would give is to keep your Law Enforcer chip in for a while at least until you are used to combat.

Precisely what that I said was untrue? The newbie path is poorly designed, it it was thought out at all. The barriers to getting into the game are part of why this game has the lowest subscription rates on the market, and in this fact hasn't prompted the devs to fix it. I know that you are basically a liar and dishonest, but even you will have trouble refuting all this.

Don't mind Scikar, he'll pop out of his hole to attack anyone who doesn't rave about this game like a mindless cheerleader.

Scikar

03-09-03, 04:39

Originally posted by Alex Mars
Precisely what that I said was untrue? The newbie path is poorly designed, it it was thought out at all. The barriers to getting into the game are part of why this game has the lowest subscription rates on the market, and in this fact hasn't prompted the devs to fix it. I know that you are basically a liar and dishonest, but even you will have trouble refuting all this.

Don't mind Scikar, he'll pop out of his hole to attack anyone who doesn't rave about this game like a mindless cheerleader.

Please quote me where I said you lied? I was merely referring to the fact that you are extremely quick to point out faults with this game and compare it to others. It's alright saying Neocron has problems such as MC5, but I would have thought that someone who so clearly cares about the subscription rates might at least be a little more neutral when describing the game to a new player.

Marx

03-09-03, 04:42

Don't mind Scikar, he'll pop out of his hole to attack anyone who doesn't rave about this game like a mindless cheerleader.

[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]

If you did what you claimed to, you wouldn't spend half as much time trolling here as you currently do. You know; you'd have other important things to spend your time doing. Other non-neocron related interests to spread your view on.

PWNED.

drekker

03-09-03, 04:46

I did play the tutorial
I did ask for help in-game
I did look for Noob Guides and seach forums
I did read the manual

It could be that I had bad luck on all three areas, but really, when it comes down to it, the game shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Drekker

P.s. I payed very close attention to all messages, advice, notes and anything else that popped up on screen. Nothing told me to put my name as the password.

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 04:46

Originally posted by Scikar
Please quote me where I said you lied? I was merely referring to the fact that you are extremely quick to point out faults with this game and compare it to others. It's alright saying Neocron has problems such as MC5, but I would have thought that someone who so clearly cares about the subscription rates might at least be a little more neutral when describing the game to a new player.

In other words you think I should lie by omission to new players?

Nope, the informed customer is the happy customer, whether they decide to stay or go. By telling him that the new player path is deeply screwed up but also telling him to get together with someone to learn the ropes I give him all the facts and a solution if he wants it.

I have noticed a streak of dishonesty and rabid defensiveness on these boards that probably does more harm than good to the community. When someone wandered into the Newbie forum a few weeks ago and asked if the game was shutting down due to low subscription rates the community reacted like moronic and screaming children and attacked him rather than assuming that he heard a rumour in a game store or forum and was checking it out. This defensiveness and inherent dishonesty makes the community look like a bunch of fools.

Marx

03-09-03, 04:48

It could be that I had bad luck on all three areas, but really, when it comes down to it, the game shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

The community agrees with you, and the entire MC5 area will be changed... *hopefully*

Scikar

03-09-03, 04:53

Originally posted by Alex Mars
In other words you think I should lie by omission to new players?

Nope, the informed customer is the happy customer, whether they decide to stay or go. By telling him that the new player path is deeply screwed up but also telling him to get together with someone to learn the ropes I give him all the facts and a solution if he wants it.

I have noticed a streak of dishonesty and rabid defensiveness on these boards that probably does more harm than good to the community. When someone wandered into the Newbie forum a few weeks ago and asked if the game was shutting down due to low subscription rates the community reacted like moronic and screaming children and attacked him rather than assuming that he heard a rumour in a game store or forum and was checking it out. This defensiveness and inherent dishonesty makes the community look like a bunch of fools.

I said be more neutral, not biased. All I was asking is to maybe skip the "(which the devs seem to have no interest in fixing)" comments which are clearly opinion and not fact. The informed customer is truly the happy customer, but that's no excuse to drop your opinions on someone, especially when you yourself have so little knowledge about the subject at hand.

Drekker, as far as I can remember there is a tooltip that pops up when you go near the GenRep in the MC5 area, which tells you your password to your apartment is your name, and I'm quite sure the last tooltip in the offline tutorial does as well. However it's quite easy to get them while you're in the middle of something else like fighting a mob so it's understandable if you missed them somehow.

Also there's an FAQ in the Newbie forum which includes the apartment password info. You can find the FAQ here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58130). There is also some useful levelling and character info in that forum too.

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 04:54

Originally posted by Marx
[ edited ]

If you did what you claimed to, you wouldn't spend half as much time trolling here as you currently do. You know; you'd have other important things to spend your time doing. Other non-neocron related interests to spread your view on.

PWNED.

I didn't claim anything other than having watched a funding process for an MMOG go from start to failure. I'm sorry that you have accomplished so little in your life that this seems to be so unbelievable to you.

I spent one day in deep debate with people here because I was home and couldn't concentrate on much at all with a wild and loud Mariachi party going on next door for 14 hours. I'm also in between contracts at the moment so I have time to kill. It is amusing to see a community that has so many dishonest people who have apparently given religious devotion to a video game.

SigmaDraconis

03-09-03, 04:59

[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]

Anyway...I have never had a problem getting help at anytime playing neocron. But yur right..no where does it mention your name being yur password.

Girian

03-09-03, 04:59

Hmm, when I first read his post I thought: damn he is right and hopefully KK will read again and think again (?) on how to improve MC5.

----> 1) I was given a handgun I couldn't use

So the guy prolly redistributed points on setup. He was not aware of the consequences, so in MC5 you should be able to reset your skills... what harm can come from that.

----> 2) I was given an attack drone without ammunition, and no detail on what ammo it uses and how to get some

Have an NPC explain how to use weapons.

----> 3) EVERYTHING in the beginning area killed me (including the small scorpions)
----> 4) As soon as tried to use the lift to my apartment it asked me for a password.....WHAT PASSWORD!!!!! I was never asked to set one!
----> 5) The first mission I was given by the Maintentance chief, in the starter area, led me to a room full of backpacks. I wondered what they were until the robot I was supposed to kill stepped out and killed me in three shots. Apparently it does this to every other newby as well. Great game design! Really makes me want to keep playing.

Well he maybe shouldn't have given up so soon... Let's see though... NC was my first MMORPG, so if I had no idea on how the game worked or I had to interact (scary thought to some :P) there could be an NPC to tell me those things.

So KK has only a few things to do to improve MC5 (which they prolly never will do tho considering the numerous ideas previously offered by people) and maybe get more players interested in playing longer than 30 minutes.

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 05:00

I said be more neutral, not biased. All I was asking is to maybe skip the "(which the devs seem to have no interest in fixing)" comments which are clearly opinion and not fact.

Another thing that a customer needs to know is that most bugs are here to stay for a long time given the small size of the dev team (and this is not a slam like some idiot took it to be in another post, it is a statement of realistic expectation). As I said in my review of this game, if bugs bother you better to not bother getting into the game at all. It will save the flames from being posted later.

It is true that I was editorializing in that remark, but I don't think it is out of place. For such a poorly implemented new player path to still be in the game at this point is an embarrassment to the devs. Bringing new players into the game should be a priority and as it has not been fixed it is not an unreasonable assumption that the devs don't care enough to fix it. I could fix it myself within a week using nothing but scripting, conversations, and available art assets.

If I didn't think the game was wasting it's potential to be a better game I wouldn't bother criticizing it.

Marx

03-09-03, 05:09

I didn't claim anything other than having watched a funding process for an MMOG go from start to failure. I'm sorry that you have accomplished so little in your life that this seems to be so unbelievable to you.

:rolleyes:

I spent one day in deep debate with people here because I was home and couldn't concentrate on much at all with a wild and loud Mariachi party going on next door for 14 hours. I'm also in between contracts at the moment so I have time to kill. It is amusing to see a community that has so many dishonest people who have apparently given religious devotion to a video game.

...

...

...

:rolleyes:

Scikar

03-09-03, 05:11

Originally posted by Alex Mars
Another thing that a customer needs to know is that most bugs are here to stay for a long time given the small size of the dev team (and this is not a slam like some idiot took it to be in another post, it is a statement of realistic expectation). As I said in my review of this game, if bugs bother you better to not bother getting into the game at all. It will save the flames from being posted later.

It is true that I was editorializing in that remark, but I don't think it is out of place. For such a poorly implemented new player path to still be in the game at this point is an embarrassment to the devs. Bringing new players into the game should be a priority and as it has not been fixed it is not an unreasonable assumption that the devs don't care enough to fix it. I could fix it myself within a week using nothing but scripting, conversations, and available art assets.

If I didn't think the game was wasting it's potential to be a better game I wouldn't bother criticizing it.

This isn't the thread to ressurect that discussion. All I'm asking for is for you to at least let people make up their own minds. You admit it was editorialising, but this is a thread about helping a new player, not discussing what you think you could have done better/should be the priority of the dev team.

Lethal Virus

03-09-03, 05:12

If you bought the game: RTFM

If you downloaded the game: Helpfiles? lol

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 05:18

This isn't the thread to ressurect that discussion. All I'm asking for is for you to at least let people make up their own minds. You admit it was editorialising, but this is a thread about helping a new player, not discussing what you think you could have done better/should be the priority of the dev team.

Well, you might have a point if this was a post by a new player asking about the game, but it wasn't. It is a post by someone who was already unhappy with the game, so I added my opinions in with some information that might help him. If a new person comes here and asks for info or impressions I'll just link him to my review and let it go at that. It was considered to be a fair review even by some of the inbred fanbois of this forum.

Marx

03-09-03, 05:19

Originally posted by Alex Mars
Well, you might have a point if this was a post by a new player asking about the game, but it wasn't. It is a post by someone who was already unhappy with the game, so I added my opinions in with some information that might help him. If a new person comes here and asks for info or impressions I'll just link him to my review and let it go at that. It was considered to be a fair review even by some of the inbred fanbois of this forum.

that way you can't poweredit that comment out

:D

And yes, though it was fair, I'll grant it that.

doesn't work anymore though.

link (http://player2player.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=982&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 05:21

Why on earth would I want to? I stand by any remark I post, unless it is a typo. I don't think I could claim that statement was a typo if I tried.

P2P seems to have chronic problems on weekends and holidays, I was about to put a link to the review in my sig here but the site is down at the moment. I'll get to it when the site comes back up. BTW, if the people I have met ingame are being truthful with me and are not pulling my leg, that review has brought several people to this game.

Marx

03-09-03, 05:22

:rolleyes:

Sure thing Captain Ahab.

NeoWolfie

03-09-03, 05:22

7.3.1 Keys
Each Character starts his new life in Neocron in his/her own apartment. The player can access the apartment by using a password which corresponds to the name of his character. In order to enter your apartment you must step inside the elevator which leads to it. Rightclick on the Apartment Elevator Access Unit in the middle of the elevator cabin, enter the password and click Ok.

This thread would have been helpful to you. 8th post lists all the Start Equipment forexample. (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67327)

Scikar

03-09-03, 05:26

Originally posted by Alex Mars
Why on earth would I want to? I stand by any remark I post, unless it is a typo. I don't think I could claim that statement was a typo if I tried.

P2P seems to have chronic problems on weekends and holidays, I was about to put a link to the review in my sig here but the site is down at the moment. I'll get to it when the site comes back up.

One thing I'd like to know. How do you expect your review to cover Neocron fairly when you've not been to an OP war and not participated in high level PvP?

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 05:28

One thing I'd like to know. How do you expect your review to cover Neocron fairly when you've not been to an OP war and not participated in high level PvP?

That review was written about the 10 day trial (it was written around day 8 IIRC), and stated that there were parts of the game I didn't see in that time.

Scikar

03-09-03, 05:31

Originally posted by Alex Mars
That review was written about the 10 day trial (it was written around day 8 IIRC), and stated that there were parts of the game I didn't see in that time.

So it's a review of the first 8 days of Neocron rather than a review of the full game?

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 05:32

It states that explicitly in the review. I was not reviewing high level content. I looked into the game, saw that some of the bad press it had was undeserved, and wrote up a basic review of the game that someone would see if they downloaded the trial.

Scikar

03-09-03, 05:33

Originally posted by Alex Mars
It states that explicitly in the review. I was not reviewing high level content.

Fair enough then.

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 05:35

You need to give me a few minutes so I can finish editing and refining my posts, I never get it all in on the first pass.

hivemind

03-09-03, 05:35

Is he Derisor?

Beetlejuice!

Scikar

03-09-03, 05:36

Try the preview reply button. :angel:

Marx

03-09-03, 05:37

Originally posted by hivemind
Is he Derisor?

Beetlejuice!

I'm not doubting it!

:lol:

prolly not though

:(

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 05:38

Originally posted by Scikar
Try the preview reply button. :angel:

I'd like to, but it is seeing the post actually go through that sparks the thought that I could have said something more effectively (or more harshly if deserved) or should have added another sentence to clarify something.

Cyphor

03-09-03, 05:51

Originally posted by drekker
Great game design! Really makes me want to keep playing.

With all questions answered are you going to give it another go?
The newbie area is a good theory but not enough time was put into it, however by coming on the boards it helps the devs solve the problems as they can see what they are.

And think a mod needs to tidy up this thread :rolleyes: its been hi-jaked, cant all the bitching be done in pm?

:angel:

Iffy Boatrace

03-09-03, 06:13

You 2 should get a room already and have hot, angry, sweaty , make-up sex.

Let is rest already you 2 chappys. You are starting to sound like those dirty beggar children that are by the estate gates. When Lady Boatrace is asleep, I toss them into the river with ankle weights.

problem solved

kurai

03-09-03, 06:14

Ignoring all the "robust" arguing back and forth the initial points are pretty fair.

There is an awful lot to the world of Neocron. In my personal opinion no other MMORPG comes close ... but most new players will never see it because of the very poor induction process and related matters.

Scikar

03-09-03, 06:14

Originally posted by Iffy Boatrace
You 2 should get a room already and have hot, angry, sweaty , make-up sex.

Let is rest already you 2 chappys. You are starting to sound like those dirty beggar children that are by the estate gates. When Lady Boatrace is asleep. I toss them into the river with ankle weights.

problem solved

If I promised to be a serving wench for a month would you spare me?

Iffy Boatrace

03-09-03, 06:21

Perhaps, but only if you are schooled in all the ways to use shrink tubing and a hairdrier.

We are afterall BAWDY aristocrats

Mr Friendly

03-09-03, 06:28

*sigh* well, i for one arent gonna feel sorry for u or be asking u to come back, when u had the help channel & OOC channel the whole time to ask ppl these questions before u cancelled

u could have at least come on here with these questions b4 u cancelled, but o/w, u give up to easily

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 06:32

There was a poll on usenet in the RPG or Strategy forums about how long people give a game before they toss it out and a large segment of the responses indicated a low level of patience on this topic. It seems that a lot of people in the forums want the game to be immediately accessible, a not unreasonable expectation given how much it costs to buy new games these days.

Oddly enough the regular MMOG players seemed to have more patience than most.

kurai

03-09-03, 06:40

Originally posted by Mr Friendly
*sigh* well, i for one arent gonna feel sorry for u or be asking u to come back, when u had the help channel & OOC channel the whole time to ask ppl these questions before u cancelled

u could have at least come on here with these questions b4 u cancelled, but o/w, u give up to easily Show me the tooltip or document or launcher button that says:-
"Here is a description of the Help & OOC channels and how to use them"
or "Use the out of game Forum because everything else documented is wrong or hopelessly outdated".

Not everyone is accustomed to the MMORPG culture (and KK is an extreme example of this) of everything of any importance being communicated via an external forum.

Mantus

03-09-03, 06:45

Robocision

03-09-03, 06:45

I read Alex Mars' fair review at player2player.net and decided to give the game a go. I approached you, Alex, right outside the aggressor pit in Plaza 2 to tell you.

It's a fair review. It doesn't claim that Neocron is the holy grail of MMOG gaming. It says it's an enjoyable MMORPG in with a very good cyberpunk atmosphere. No more, no less. The only negatives really mentioned were low server populations and the lame brained n00by area.

Mattimeo

03-09-03, 06:50

my small opinion on the subject is, why should a new player have to go to other people for help to get past the most basic things in the game? Starting a character, using the weapons, how different weapons work, getting into your apartment, this should all be covered for you in clear, concise instructions.

I had to spend an hour and a half on the phone helping my friend past the most basic things in this game, it should be explained, and should not require a help request in the first 10 minutes of the game.

kurai

03-09-03, 06:52

Originally posted by Mattimeo
my small opinion on the subject is, why should a new player have to go to other people for help to get past the most basic things in the game? Starting a character, using the weapons, how different weapons work, getting into your apartment, this should all be covered for you in clear, concise instructions.

I had to spend an hour and a half on the phone helping my friend past the most basic things in this game, it should be explained, and should not require a help request in the first 10 minutes of the game. Indeed.
I quoted the entire text because it bears repeating.

Psychoninja

03-09-03, 06:57

I still think putting players right smack in the middle of Neocron is better than having them wander helplessly around an open field when they already walk/run slow enough and have low mana. Atleast when you started in your apt, you were in the city with people ready to wander around get lost and get a chance to interact with people or see what the economy/trade was like when you stumble into plaza. Or see what fights are like when they walk into PP. This is how I got drawn into the game, I think alot of people would also....

Now only if the economy and the fights were better :rolleyes:

*thinks back to the good beta 4 days*

anyways

MC5 = newb/customer/playercount killer

Fix it or Ditch it.

Shadow Dancer

03-09-03, 07:18

Alex has a point, but at the same time nearly all mmorpgs leave you "bewildered" at first.

Someone should really write "what a mmorpg is like" FAQ for first timers.

Pill

03-09-03, 07:27

From my understanding, you can't really RTFM, as it makes it look like a Wyatt Earp could take out a S.T.O.R.M. in one shot (as if). But thats only my understanding from people with the manual, my account evolved from trail to full. :)

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 07:34

Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Alex has a point, but at the same time nearly all mmorpgs leave you "bewildered" at first.

Yes and no.

Earth and Beyond, for instance, has an excellent ingame newbie quest series that teaches you everything you need to know to play your class and ship type.

DAoC starts you right in the middle of a field of monsters that you are capable of killing (OTOH understanding the skill system and what you get out of it is a bit difficult).

AC, AC2, and an odd game named Underlight have excellent newbie training routines you can run through (similar to System Shock 2 basic training).

UO now has a newbie island where you are instructed on how to play the game (it took the game 4 or 5 years to get this up and running though).

PS has offline training, but it is broken and you can't get through all the missions. If it worked it would be great.

I've got notes for a new player guide for NC but I haven't had the spark that prompts me to organize them and put them in a final readable form. I'm going to base them on my PlanetSide new player guide format, although I am not putting up a website for it. I'll post it here.

Mr Friendly

03-09-03, 08:11

Originally posted by kurai
Show me the tooltip or document or launcher button that says:-
"Here is a description of the Help & OOC channels and how to use them"
or "Use the out of game Forum because everything else documented is wrong or hopelessly outdated".

Not everyone is accustomed to the MMORPG culture (and KK is an extreme example of this) of everything of any importance being communicated via an external forum.

its called common sense, located in the brain, chat menu F1 he should have read on the top of his HUD, & im sure he would have realized he should use the "Help" channel. not that hard

KidWithStick

03-09-03, 08:25

what server are you on? i can most likely help you since i have a char on all the english servers.

but yea...you didnt spec your points right, drones dont use ammo...you prolly didnt spec right for that either, you didnt pick the right "career" to start out with to get the right weapon, MC5 does blow...and the lift code to your APT is your name.

drekker

03-09-03, 08:43

Firstly, to clarify a point, when you do a 'show info' on a drone, it says 'out of ammo'. This is a misleading statement for an item which apparently requires no ammo.

I suppose what I am asking in this post is; how did others find the startup of their first character? Was it just me that found it like swimming through mud?

What tips can you give others in this situation, since it was quite hard to find a basic beginners guide in the manual or web despite trying.

Drekker

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 09:42

The usual tip is get out of the newbie area immediately. Find the genrep that is to your left as you exit the starting building, it is in a small concrete tower. This takes you to your apartment.

It seems to me that the easiest place to level is Neocron city, so you want to pick a faction that starts there as opposed to the Military Base or Tech Haven. I've done well as City Admin (and we get power armour for the epic reward).

You need to find the level one sewers in one of the Plaza zones, and you need to do fetch and carry missions to learn the city. Learn how to use the F9 Navray: you can select a location and it will lead you to it, it also displays the local map and world map.

This is just my opinion, but I find it easiest to start by using melee combat for the first few levels, you aren't wasting ammo and it builds Strength.

There is a great .pdf starting character guide with illustrations but I can't find the link, does anyone have it? This guide will show you what equipment you get with each option on a character class and a lot of other useful info.

Check out these links:

http://www.neocom.org/NeoCom/News.asp

http://www.neocroncentral.net/

http://www.croncom.com/

http://www.rpgplanet.com/neocron/

http://mike.9m3.com/cgi-bin/ncserverpops.cgi?outside_nc=true&theme=oldfbi

http://www.neocron.nl/

http://neocron.ems.ru/

http://www.neocronnetwork.de/gameinfo/skillmanager/

http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477

Q`alooaith

03-09-03, 10:49

Originally posted by drekker
Firstly, to clarify a point, when you do a 'show info' on a drone, it says 'out of ammo'. This is a misleading statement for an item which apparently requires no ammo.

I suppose what I am asking in this post is; how did others find the startup of their first character? Was it just me that found it like swimming through mud?

What tips can you give others in this situation, since it was quite hard to find a basic beginners guide in the manual or web despite trying.

Drekker

First tip...

Don't come to the forums and yell about cancelling an account.

Second tip

Guidlines, better to understand this forum.. (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65981)

Third tip,

Player to player help, in game, F1, custom, then click to the left of player to player help so the X appears, then click on the player to player help and start asking.. Most times people will know what your talking about and will be able to help you...

This game takes a little time to get used to, but so does Deus Ex, first time I played that game I died in three seconds, you should expect to die a few times when you first start a new game. Make a junk char and mess about on a server your not going to play on and work out all the kinks, then goto wherever and you can act all non newbi..

Breschau

03-09-03, 11:23

Originally posted by Mr Friendly
its called common sense, located in the brain, chat menu F1 he should have read on the top of his HUD, & im sure he would have realized he should use the "Help" channel. not that hard

And it's entirely possible he'd still get no luck there.

I've asked multiple basic questions on help channel and had zero response. I then move to OOC, same result. Then Faction (usually a few people watching that for the faction/server I was on) and still no joy.

This was for things like "what's the difference between the different levels of antidote drug". I asked about 3 different questions that day, all of similar level of knowledge required to answer. I eventually got one of them answered after asking about 10 times over different channels (spacing them out so's not to spam).

It's not inconceivable that someone completely new to the game and genre would have trouble finding the help channel, nor that they may become discouraged if they get the same results as I did. First impressions count, especially when money is involved.

Dim

03-09-03, 11:29

Forseti

03-09-03, 11:36

Alex Mars and company, keep your off topic chatter out of this thread.

Oath

03-09-03, 11:36

Well, your either very biased to another game and intent on bitching about neocron or your a little slow. The help is there if you want it, ask.

Oath.

shend

03-09-03, 11:39

hey dekker, if u play on pluto
just direct me and i'll help u out in any way possible
(directing = pressing F1, clicking on DIRECT and entering my name
where the cursor is)

as hard as mc5 is, when u make it to the city u'll notice people all over helping u out, giving u money, better weapons etc

oh, and by the way
sex

RuButt

03-09-03, 11:47

sorry, gotta take the newbies side on this one

FIX MC5!!

and there is some bad lagg and sync problems ....since the last few patches

Futureman

03-09-03, 15:24

Boy,

KK sure does love its timesinks! They start from the first damn second of the game! You think its bad now dekker you should have seen it when you had to earn 800 NC to gr to neocron. Yep you had to either scavenge junk to sell to NPCs or kill stuff. That's the way futureman did it. Good that they took that out though. But really, what's the point of MC5? I wish they would delete everything to do with mc5 from the game. The noob area, the Base comander and the chips. Its all just one big timsink.

But please don't judge NC from NC5. If you are on saturn ill help you get started just DM futureman or Asclepius and i'll help you out. Bah why mc5?!!!!??!?! WHY!?!?!

LTA

03-09-03, 15:42

Originally posted by Oath
Well, your either very biased to another game and intent on bitching about neocron or your a little slow. The help is there if you want it, ask.

Oath.

In all honesty a newbie shouldnt be REQUIRED to ask, everything he needs to know to get him of his feet and into neocron should be provided in mc5.
All info about guns etc should be in there, details about apt access, mobs, leveling, equipment, how to use the channels etc etc.

As for the tutorial.... it threw me of when i started and got a bp stating Tangent Triggering mechanism and then went to crytons to find wep parts 1-7.
In the demo i could research/construct my gun, imp myself with basic chips... in the real game i'd be lucky to do two of them at any decent level and remain pvm efficient as it dosent state all the details of Specialisation. I think every newbie plays the game gimped till someone finally advises them about setups and tells them why they die in 1 hit and cant hit a barn door.

The Manual....
psi:
"Well developed intellegence.... Addition - Up till about 80 :p"
Tanks Unabl;e to develope psi .... i would've thought that meant 0 points but i was suprised when i found tanks using basic psi spells.
Spies Easily developed psi skills..... through missions only?

It states venture warps lead you to the gates and outskirts of the wastelands... not random locations like 2 ft from a angry chaser :p
It has nothign at all about specialising etc...

o and the final gem from the manual

Shotgun "The ultimate Short Range Rifle" <--- yeah for killing roaches O_o

What i am saying everything a new player needs to know should be in mc5 weather through npc tutorials... slow pop ups or slowly developing missions... it all should be in there, players shouldnt have to instruct every new player how to play(credit to those who give their time to do so).

Nixon

03-09-03, 15:43

Neocron is designed VERY poorly for noobs.. Fucking MC5.

You shouldn't expect everyone to search for information from neocron forums and such..

Most impatient newbies will rather just uninstall the stupid game
and cancel their account than start searching for help all over the
neocron website and forums.

My friend tried Neocron and he was lost right from the beginning.

enablerbr

03-09-03, 15:49

yeah thats the trouble with lazy newbies who can't be arsed to do some basic research about the game before they dive in.
yes MC5 sux. as for NC having a hard learning curve. i can only imagine that being the need to learn to specialise.

LTA

03-09-03, 15:53

Originally posted by enablerbr
yeah thats the trouble with lazy newbies who can't be arsed to do some basic research about the game before they dive in.
yes MC5 sux. as for NC having a hard learning curve. i can only imagine that being the need to learn to specialise.

But remember these lazy newbies all add to the player count eventually it's important to cater for all if possible :p

AxeMan

03-09-03, 15:56

i started playing at the beginning of retail. that was b4 MC5 it was easier and it was more in-line with what the manual said. Unfortunately the manual hasnt (and couldnt) be kept up-to-date with all the changes in the game. perhaps when its re-released that will change.

As for MC5, it was a nice idea but poorly implemented / thought out. and ffs add a citycom term in the base so you can read the emails and get some info on the game. that still annoys me when you create a new char and have the email symbol flashing at you with no way to read them.

@ Drekkor, give it another try their are lots of people out their who try to help new players (myself included) because we like the game and want to see the community grow.

wolfwood

03-09-03, 16:04

neocron isnt rocket science.

MjukisDjur

03-09-03, 16:08

[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]

rtfm + forum if you cannot find out stuff by yourself

icarium

03-09-03, 16:46

lol i cant believe some of the dudes having a go at him for posting on here, NC is difficult to start, the first time i had a go in beta 4 i uninstalled it after about an hour i was that pissed off, it was only bcoz a friend who recommended it to me started to help me out that i got into it (after he convinced me to give it another go). and tbh MC5 has made it worse, what sort of shit idea was it to stick it in and assume it would work? what would have been better would have been a CITY based newby area, jam packed with NPC's to explain everything, not a lifeless desert in the middle of nowhere. especially as server population s are so low that you are likely to be the only person there. i said it before and i will say it again, 14000 trial downloads from fileplanet and a total server population of about 1000 (and i bet most of them have been in since beta or start of retail) = something not right

also i think there should be a STAFFED chat channel in NC not a player one as everyone has it muted to cut down on spam.

which server u play on drekk i will help you out if i have a character on that server. i suggest you try pluto, saturn is ok but quite a few wankers

redjacket

03-09-03, 17:12

Originally posted by drekker
Just some of the issues I faced when trying to learn/start this game:

1) I was given a handgun I couldn't use
2) I was given an attack drone without ammunition, and no detail on what ammo it uses and how to get some
3) EVERYTHING in the beginning area killed me (including the small scorpions)
4) As soon as tried to use the lift to my apartment it asked me for a password.....WHAT PASSWORD!!!!! I was never asked to set one!
5) The first mission I was given by the Maintentance chief, in the starter area, led me to a room full of backpacks. I wondered what they were until the robot I was supposed to kill stepped out and killed me in three shots. Apparently it does this to every other newby as well. Great game design! Really makes me want to keep playing.

You get the idea. The layout and concept of the game look cool, but the game designers did an appauling job. It's seems like they expect you to be an expert in the game the day you begin. The tútorial was a good idea, but bears no resemblance to the real game. It's easy to kill scorpions with all the guns they give you in the tutorial!

Drekker the extremely dissapointed.

arg...

to all ye who complain about him complaining and basically saying "RTFM!" or "RTFF!" might I say something...
RTFM! - well, if he doesn't have a boxed copy, then I'd like to know where an online manual is... and if he DOES have a boxed copy, the manual doesn't really tell you anything... welp... it tells you that your name is the lift password for your apartment... but its outdated... hell... it was outdated for most of beta 4... sad...

RTFF! - that he could very well have done... came on here and asked... i know i woulda helped him if i saw it (maybe... if i was in the mood...) but... most of this shit shouldn't have big question marks surrounding it...

the sub-classes (occupations) don't really tell you that you do indeed get a pistol with said occupation... you have to click on dex and see that p-c is specced... now... one might say thats a dead give away... but... I don't really think so... it was like that before and everyone pretty much got the same stuff save a few special ones (mainly spies and monks...)

I dunno how well the Newb MC5 helper NPC's are with actually giving you useful information (like how to actually use drones) but dontcha think that some of this crap shoulda been... well... covered in the tutorial? Drones dont operate the same as other weapons... nor do psi spells... yet they lack any coverage in the tutorial... if they were in the tutorial, we could all just say "stfu... play the damn tutorial for 5 minutes, ass monkey..." and everyone would be happy...

as far as everything killing him in the newb mc5 area... i can see the laser robots... but... the other things killing him would be a lack of understanding of the combat system... which can only be fixed by trial and error... since the combat system is kinda funky, not much can really be done about that for various reasons... welp... that and melee weapons suck...

again... given how someone doesn't know what their apartment password is... that means it either isn't documented or isn't documented well enough for morons to see it... the latter which can be a good and bad thing... its good cause it keeps them away... its bad because idiots and morons are what would be required for KK to make some cash...

and getting killed by the laser guards... that pretty much means you shoulda leveled maybe once or twice before thinking about killing them... or not even bothering... i dont think the reward is worth it anymore really... they nerfed it i thought... but... i dont think the combat/skill ranks are explained anywhere 'cept the broke ass boxed manual that i dont even think has the skill rank part in it...

-------------------------------

in short... yeah... this guy probably IS a moron... but that doesn't excuse the poor ass documentation in NC... nor the problems...

i think if they actually made a non-sucky tutorial that covered... oh i dunno... just about EVERYTHING IMPORTANT... like combat/skill ranks, psi spells, drones, apartment passwords (hey, at the end, have them go up to an apartment and explain how the default passwords work!) then that could compensate for some of the crap... or maybe put up an online manual with links inside NC or (since NC doesn't handle alt-tab quite well still) put it INSIDE NC... and actually... update the fucker... ah well...

frankly... i dont think anyone really cares...

Lord Mansion

03-09-03, 17:22

The threadstarter has several valid points. Instead of ignoring the problems and/or constantly defending KK, maybe its time to accept the truth and put more pressure on KK to fix it. (though from a business viewpoint, I don't understand why it has not been fixed yet.)

RuButt

03-09-03, 17:23

Originally posted by Lord Mansion
The threadstarter has several valid points. Instead of ignoring the problems and/or constantly defending KK, maybe its time to accept the truth and put more pressure on KK to fix it. (though from a business viewpoint, I don't understand why it has not been fixed yet.)

THANK YOU!!

yeah, MC5 sux, lagg sux, syncs sux

but ur still defending them?

u dont want KK to fix them?

redjacket

03-09-03, 17:28

Originally posted by RuButt
THANK YOU!!

yeah, MC5 sux, lagg sux, syncs sux

but ur still defending them?

u dont want KK to fix them?

i peronally can deal with lag and sync errors... this game isn't so real time it needs zero lag (like say... real 3d action fps games... planetside, tribes, quake...) and the lag i used to get wasn't bad (though it happened with 800 ppl on the server... which is kinda bad...) and the sync errors are semi-understandable, though I think they may have snowballed in to one hell of a problem to fix...

but MC5 sucking is pretty much retarded... they have DIRECT no-bullshit control over MC5 suckage... as well as documentation suckage... they seem to have other things to do apparently... but if they want new people... they need some documentation so ya dont HAVE to come crying here... come crying here for detailed reqs and suggestions and crap... but basic gameplay mechanics like how drones work should be something the game slaps you with...

granted... documentation and mc5 suckage doesn't matter as much since NC doesn't seem to be taking on a massive amount of newbs... but they will need to get it in order if they plan to relaunch, eh?

Archeus

03-09-03, 17:37

Maybe they can build the changing of MC5 into the storyline.

Have TG/FA take over MC5 and kill all CA. Then they are releasing runners back into the world but realise that thier minds have been wiped so they teach them basics.

redjacket

03-09-03, 17:40

Originally posted by Archeus
Maybe they can build the changing of MC5 into the storyline.

Have TG/FA take over MC5 and kill all CA. Then they are releasing runners back into the world but realise that thier minds have been wiped so they teach them basics. omg... that totally does NOT suck... sure its kinda "been there... done that..." but so is the current MC5... i like it... you get a gold star and a merit badge for "non-crappy idea"

SigmaDraconis

03-09-03, 18:57

Originally posted by SigmaDraconis
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]

Anyway...I have never had a problem getting help at anytime playing neocron. But yur right..no where does it mention your name being yur password.

my first edit and i dont even remember what i said :(

Xin

03-09-03, 18:57

I skipped most of the replies, so my apologies if I'm repeating but:

MjukisDjur wrote:

rtfm...

Well, as I posted several MONTHS ago, the fucking manual is WRONG. Go to www.neocron.com and download the manual . Flip to section 1.5, where it reads: "Immediately upon starting the game you will find yourself in your apartment..."

I have never played a game with a worse starting experience, and I've played a lot of games.

N00bs constantly get caught in synch errors and have button clicks not work, and in MC5 there's usually no experienced players there to help them. There no fucking clues as to where to go, how to get out of the area, or what to do. If you do manage to talk to someone, he tells you to go find a malfunctioning robot that is impossible to kill at your given level, even if there happened to be 3 other n00bs in the room with you - which there isn't.

Giving new players the ability to customize their skills, then giving them equipment that can only be used if you DON'T customize, is retarded. For the love of Chran, put players back in their apartment, fix the typo in the opening message of the game, and tell them their fucking apartment password. If your boss is still stuck on the idea of keeping MC5 as the starting area, at least put a GR in the starting room, with a message "Right click here to go to your apartment"

A half hour of programming by your most junior developer will give you the information necessary to equip the character with usable weapons for their skillset.

This game is SO good when you get out of MC5, and so BAD when you're in it. The area itself is not that bad, once you relog to get the synch message to go away and the doors to open.. but it's not an appropriate place for starting characters.

Omni X

03-09-03, 22:15

As a newbie who just started playing, here is my take:

1. The printed manual is useless. I have yet to find anything of real value, after reading thru it twice. The major beef I had with it was it had no info whatsoever on the Professions. All it had was class info. I would have liked to see a chart like at http://neocron.ems.ru/create.html telling me what I start with and what my primary subskills should be, so I have some idea where my points MIGHT go(I didn't have any clue what to do with my points). If any game needed a Prima strategy guide, Neocron does.

2. The starter area is better than being dumped to your apartment(like in beta), but I need the game to give more detail about what I am supposed to be doing here and when a good time to leave is. PLUS I don't like the fact that you are charged to transport out of MC5. As a new player, I need all the money I can get. If you want to keep people in MC5 till they are more ready for the real world, then add a rank restriction.

3. The Nav-Ray is a GREAT thing, however, the first time you leave your apartment, the game needs to, at some point pop Nav-Ray up on your screen and ask you if you would like directions to a certain point. When I got into the city, it was overwelming and I had totally forgotten about Nav-Ray, so I was afraid to wander too far for fear I could not remember where my apartment was.

3a. Your exit to your apartment should be MUCH more unique, so people can remember where they live and what to look for.

4. Those LOM pills... I was looting those left and right as a newbie, but had no idea how they worked. After reading I saw they were to reset your skills. "Great!" I thought, since I accidentally put a couple points into someing I later found out, I didn't need. So I take the pills for that skill, but nothing happens and I am out a couple hundred credits. Why? I again later found out that you must have at least 5 in the skill for it to reset. So why did the pill go bye bye then, if I had less. Why not put a failsafe on them so they don't work unless you do have 5 points to give back?

These things may not sound like much to many people, but little things like these annoy the heck outta me. This game is very complex, when compared to others games, so as a newbie, I have enough to worry about.

Alex Mars

03-09-03, 22:24

For newbs: check out the Unofficial Neocron Guide (I finally found where I downloaded this). This guide helped me a lot.

http://members.chello.nl/~b.venneman/

Xin

03-09-03, 22:26

Originally posted by Omni X
2. The starter area is better than being dumped to your apartment(like in beta),

As a new player, how do you know? Maybe it's just that I was thoroughly confused because i read the manual and was expecting an apartment in the city and got a room in a bunker in the desert... but getting into my apartment was the first fun part of the game for me. Getting lost in the dark in MC5 with a weapon you can't use and no other players around is a super turn off. At least in your apartment you know where the hell you are and things aren't killing you.

Dribble Joy

03-09-03, 22:45

Although the n00b hepl/mc5 needs improving, this is neocron, the 'non-carebear' MMORPG.
You have to find things out either yourself, or activly seek it from others, not expecting it to be handed to you on a platter with a glaas of milk.

The RPOS is not really that hard, if it doesn't immediatlly make sense, fiddle with it, press buttons and stuff. Experiment.
Part of the games concept is that you are a person, newly arrived/graduated/born/whatever and are now left to fend for yourself.
Learning, gaining experience, and HUMAN INTERACTION are the game's selling points as an online role-player.
Enough of that though, I only have one thing to sya about the treadstarters first post.
You say every creature killed you? I can only pressume you stood and beat it while it hit you back. DO NOT play this as a 'standard' MMORPG, as NC is an FPS, play it like one, use cover, range and hit-and-run.

I hope you decide not to leave so soon, and really give this game a go. :)