View Full Version : this a good idea for apus?
ok, APUs are very unbalenced. They do crazy insane damage... and they never miss. this can be sorted by doing it like this,
take away the copbot style halo spells, because i was in neofrag with 3 other apus. i would get hit once by a halo, turn around see the monk, get hit again. run for cover behind a wall, and get hit a further 2 or 3 times. just because they clicked on me alot
they can also run cast which is the worst of all this
spells need to be casted in a straight line. i mean, if psis can have these copbot style halo spells why did the pe loose their copbot rifle? thats not fair at all
and then the psis aint even got a reactle to prevent this from happning??
i say make mental steadiness like weapon lore, so concentrating to 'summon' a spell will come into good use. so psis can either speichilize in doing deadly damage, or speichilize in being very good at focus
does anyone agree? make your points :)
IronMonkey
01-09-03, 23:59
'they never miss' lol
can tell you never played an apu
yes i have on the test server
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 00:06
ok than have you pvp'ed with it and realzie that you fumble an awful lot and that test server random dmg isnt the actual dmg your doing? It's just a theorectical number to make you feel like you did 1400 dmg but in reality you did 800 dmg. Or the fact that in order to out dmg a cs you need to overspec your APU so much you have a giumped psi pool and can only end up doing 8 HL's max before your rofl turns to 30/min oh and btw eatign boosters doesnt help this because it takes longer to recharge than to cast. Or the fact that in order to use those spells that do such insane dmg you speak off you have to nerf your force resists so that PE's with a libby certain mod style will totally own you? Or even tanks with speed guns?
Or rather whats even more funny is in order to get a absic resist back you have to nerf transport so much that u can hardly carry anythign besides boosters and medi's which makes hunting for rares and gear pretty much a huge timesync because u spend more time going to the gogo than u do hunting.
Or rather its good to know u played an instantly capped monk on test server so u wouldnt know any of the real things it is to be a apu. Infact once u cap and get ds most of these problems go away.
O.T. Welcome back to the forums Style. Your RL pictures thread is still in very good shape. :)
N
P.S. Forgive me for this OT post. I'll edit myself later on :p
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 00:10
Use the PM Function! *slaps nid on the wrist* o_O
:p
edit; feel free to delete when you edit your post obviously :PPPPP
the carrying stuff thing is not my problem, there should be vehicles with your gogo in them as a trunk.
your straying of topic. what im saying needs to be stopped is being hit 5 times by a poisen stack even know you are covered after the 2nd hit. thats not normal. monks need a reactle so it takes skill to hit someone with a spell. instead of point and click.
[hello nid :)]
when i PvP i can carry around 15 sets of boosters, the rest is armour and spells, no room for medkits.
If i get shot i'm dead.
infact i spy nearly killed me a few weeks back, they somehow got behind me and shotme in the back with a FL, lucky i reacted fast and moved, i turned and managed to hit him twice the rest of my HL's fizzled, i hit a booster and just as he started firing again i got another 2-3 hits and he dropped, i limped away with 6hp.
if i had seen him before maybe at a distance hed've been dead in about 2-3 secconds but he cought me out that time and nearly got me
Edit: oh and NF is bugged to high hell even tho you can't see the monk doesn't mean he can't see you, the ammount of lag in that place is unreal, i've fought many times in NF on my tank and it's walways the apu that gets me the most by suprise simply because i couldn't aim at him till it's too late
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:12
Apus can and do miss. People say we do insane damage and have no recticle. So? That's the point. That's like me saying "omg tanks have entirely too much con, they can have good resists everywhere LIEK OMG". That's one of our advantages.
Nobody ever seems to mention our disadvantages liek dying super quick. Or being screwed over by yoyo health big time, :rolleyes: . Or low mana.
You want to give us gun recticle? Then give us gun style ammo. Because we have low mana pool which turns our rof to crap and stupid psi boosters which have the longest reload time.
You want us to have recticle? Ok so that reduces our damage output(our MAIN class advantage) because we now have to wait like everyone else to get a lock and do full damage. What's next? You want us to have burst lightning? Then what's the point of our class? WE'll be like tanks without the uber defense.
Giving us recticle cuts into our damage dealing, so give more offense or defense to compensate. OR recognise that every class is different and has it's advantages and disadvantages. Every class can kill an apu.
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 00:12
thats called lag
it has nothing to do with havign a reticle
and everything to do with 105 per minute casting rate and lag on the server
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 00:12
Heh, on topic, I would have to say APUs are pretty balanced, when Arc sees this thread he's gonna flip :P
Generally, APUs have FA Defence, even the best of them can't really stand a chance against the best of another class.
There is a lot to decide it, but, APUs are far from "over powered"
They win in tight, enclosed spaces, they don't win in open/semi-open close combat, they don't win at extreme range, and they own the mid-field.
What's wrong with that? o_O
Apu monks are not over powered...
I find it easier to aim with my pistol PE because you see a big crosshair thing when you can fire. Apu monks miss a lot actually.... I think they should make psi use like weapon lore (reticle closes instantly if you have enough) and give apu monks more mana. Freq would be controled by the ammount of apu the monk has. May even make them better lol.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:14
Originally posted by Drake6k
Apu monks are not over powered...
I find it easier to aim with my pistol PE because you see a big crosshair thing when you can fire. Apu monks miss a lot actually.... I think they should make psi use like weapon lore (reticle closes instantly if you have enough) and give apu monks more mana. Freq would be controled by the ammount of apu the monk has. May even make them better lol.
Actually apu does influence freq.
yes i know psis die super quick.... but that needs turned around by kk.... i aint saying put all this stuff i talk about on top of the defence of a psi. im saying kk need to do something to change what is happning. its turned into what it was like wiht the freezers, who shoots first wins. no skill or fun behind it.
if you get shot in the back you should be able to turn around and beat that person by out aiming them. not dying because the other person shot first you know what im saying?
@Quntamdelta - you says psis rule the mid field? they can rule the close field and the long field aswell, even beating a sniping spy which is wrong. if psis are to rule the mid field it should be the only plaice they can rule. by bringing in the reactle.
@ironman - if its lag that causes it then if the spell was changed into shooting in a straight line this can not fix it? anyway... the halo makes people lag like hell.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Actually apu does influence freq.
I know lol but under my idea it would be only apu and not psi use too.
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 00:16
but style that happens in every other fight too
if an apu gets shot in the back he dies if a pe does he does if a spy does he does, only a tank has the chance of turning around and owning you
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 00:17
people tend to laugh at me when im in a pvp area im always like spining around n shit strafing in circles so i dont get shot in the back because that = the end of my existence.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:18
Originally posted by Style
if you get shot in the back you should be able to turn around and beat that person by out aiming them. not dying because the other person shot first you know what im saying?
Then play counterstrike. This isn't meant as an "OMG YOU R 1337 CONTOR STRIKE KIDDIE" flame, i'm being serious.
Originally posted by Style
yes i know psis die super quick.... but that needs turned around by kk
Why? Each class is supposed to be different, and useful in different situations. You want to lower our damage output and give us more defense, that's like turning us into one of the other classes lol.
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 00:18
Originally posted by Drake6k
I know lol but under my idea it would be only apu and not psi use too. Which means PSI Use would only influence range and a tiny bit of mana pool...? :/
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 00:19
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Which means PSI Use would only influence range and a tiny bit of mana pool...? :/
nah he is saying if they gave us a reticle psi use would be able to insatnt lock it as wlel as range and little bit of mana if u can even call like 1 point every 3 or 4 points of psi use a little bit of mana lol
if an apu is shot in the back you can near garuntee he WILL die
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:19
Originally posted by IronMonkey
but style that happens in every other fight too
if an apu gets shot in the back he dies if a pe does he does if a spy does he does, only a tank has the chance of turning around and owning you
Actually pe can turn around and win IMO, especially if they have stealth. Spies can stealth, heal, and come back too. Unless it's an apu attacking, then it's quite possible to die before you stealth. :D
Originally posted by Drake6k
I know lol but under my idea it would be only apu and not psi use too.
Yea, then maybe KK can make PSU have the effect of more mana again. That would be 1337.
All anyone ever does is bitch about the monks...
APU are this that and the other guess what....
2 months ago it was hybrids...
BTW tanks and shitdon't really need to aim either theyu can pop an AOE sht into a room and hit many ppl at once.. this is unfair as well casue the didn't have to aim to hit them.
APUs miss dude... And we can only RUN CAST a capped spell (or one over 600% Damage) most of our reall really good spells we can't blast away like mad fools with is cause they are slow burn way to much power and we have to turret so we use a Holy Energy Halo, any high level apu worth his skill has a 2-5 Slot Holy Halo...
That has
648% Damage
648% Range
a RoF of 120+ a minute
I have 123 I think... but do I have the psi pool to cast those 123 no... if I did I would call myself a bit over powered...
But at that point I would freely go mad with Holy Lightning or a similar spell cause I would have the pool to cast for ever..
APUs are very beaten & battered now... if we use a TL 3 heal we sacrifice our power. Every other class in the game gets this basic spell we can't use it really...
Speed gun turns us into a grease stain
Energy Weapons can kill us
Fusion weapons can kill us
I had a PE hit me with a Commando Sniper riffle he took over 200 Points of health from me in 1!!! Hit Nearly killed me in the first shot. That is WAY to over powered. I can't nearly kill you in the first hit with even my most powerful spells.
APUs are fine...
We use lower tl spells so we can cap the stats so we can at least be a viable Class with no heals buffs or anything else.
Tanks can run with there CS out and still not really have to AIM.
PE's Can use a Libby Judge Pain Easer, Frankly any riffle or Gun and run circles around you and drop you before you say boo...
Spys, if he is good and useing his full potential mabye he can take a Caped Tank.
PPU's are beaten on a little less than APUs but ppl think the parashock is a bad idea guess what... It is there offensive weapon cause soul clusters are dumb as posts.
APUs need to be able to hit hard and fast... or we would be the target of every class ni the game even the spys could kick our ass's then.
KK allready played a joke on us with the random damage bounce.
My Best spells can go from as weak as 60 Damage.. to as Awsome as 500+ on mobs... when ya think Grim Chasers have a bit over 10,000 HP's we need to smack them really really fast cause they can hit us for 100's of damage in as little as one Peircing Flame. Sure fire might not hurt but the Knife Icon Fire kicks our ass's...
And since players are smarter than mobs and move faster you should be able to out move a APU...
I know many who can out move us and make us hit our allies etc...
When CM is Appartment poping on us in the canyons they run circles in the tight crowds causeing the APU's to hit everyone...
Oh and if ya want over powered...
Me and 4 APU's where hitting a CM PPU who was doing said above thing... All with Holy Lightning We did this for almost an Hour we never killed him once...
He managed to Out Heal out buff out manuver us every time, and he even managed to kill one of us with a APU spell a lowly lightning bolt spell....
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 00:24
lol no offense but um let me guess that um test with 4 apus vs the ppu was a staged test right?
It never works that way ina rela fight for me. lol i have lots n lots of ppu dogtags if u want to see lol
EDIT: but maybe thats cause ive capped my rares who knows
i agree with Anthonys
also the only defence i see an apu having IS his ability to runcast, and even then that can be taken away easily with a nice parashock or a shot to the legs. It only takes one
Yes all true but you didn't mention the fact that they drop in seconds no defence high offence. PLus that run cast is not easyest thing in the world to get its hard as hell to cap an HL.
firstly... im here to play neocron. and disscuss, please dont tell me to go play another game again ok thanks? pvp should still take skill, by saying what you are saying you are basically admitting to what im tyring to point out by saying this game does not take skill = not very balenced. this game is near balanced, but it is not balenced 100%.
secondly whats this with making the monk like every other class? what making the monk take skill to play aswell?
i made this thread for people to disscuss, not turn into a flame war whether it should be changed or left how it is. like other threads. it dont help kk at all.
instead of twisting my words and making me have to come back and make a solution for you just to give KK good reason. make an explanation to what parts of pvp your monk sucks at, make a way of how it can be improved.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Yes all true but you didn't mention the fact that they drop in seconds no defence high offence. PLus that run cast is not easyest thing in the world to get its hard as hell to cap an HL.
i have 610% on my HL i'm base 98 psi and have 180 apu, 595% on my 4 slot FA
also, spys can stealh away from a monk? are you joking?? spis die in 3 hits! they will be lucky to bring out their stealth thing and go into stealth only to be hit a further 2 times!
this is how it is with spys and psis, a friend of mine was sniping a monk in pepper park, the monk span around saw him, and killed him. that will almost ALWAYS happen. because the monk is even better at the spys game.
OK as of now a Good capped APU vs. a good capped tank is a close fight by the end who ever is left standing will have almost no HP any change to teh APU's speed and aim will make them nothing more than a peice of junk. I think its pretty fair.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:36
Originally posted by Style
firstly... im here to play neocron. and disscuss, please dont tell me to go play another game again ok thanks?
I was just pointing out that you can't come into a game wanting something that's not really a part of the game. It's like me saying neocron should have dragons and fairies.
Originally posted by Style
pvp should still take skill,
I agree.
Originally posted by Style
pvp should still take skill, by saying what you are saying you are basically admitting to what im tyring to point out by saying this game does not take skill = not very balenced.
I'm not admitting to anything. And this game does take skill, regardless of the class.
Originally posted by Style
secondly whats this with making the monk like every other class? what making the monk take skill to play aswell?
Monk takes skill. It takes enormous skill and patience to be a good ppu. PPU is probably the hardest class to play. But guess what, the PPU doesn't "duel" or kill. Yet it still takes skill. My point is that their are many forms of skill, not just 1v1 cowboy style gun slinging.
APU takes skill. Staying alive, taking out ppus, etc...
Originally posted by Style
i made this thread for people to disscuss, not turn into a flame war whether it should be changed or left how it is.
No one flamed anyone.
Originally posted by Style
instead of twisting my words and making me have to come back and make a solution for you just to give KK good reason.
What? I don't even understand that sentence.
Originally posted by Style
make an explanation to what parts of pvp your monk sucks at, make a way of how it can be improved.
APU monks, IMO, are not suited for close combat. The shine at mid-high range combat and also team combat. I don't want every class to have the same chance in every situation of PvP, because their would be 0 variety in that sense.
i already answered that kimmy, by giving an apu more defence. while it takes them skill to aim.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:40
Originally posted by Style
also, spys can stealh away from a monk? are you joking?? spis die in 3 hits! they will be lucky to bring out their stealth thing and go into stealth only to be hit a further 2 times!
I said the spy can stealth away, except for maybe against apu. *sigh*
Originally posted by Style
this is how it is with spys and psis, a friend of mine was sniping a monk in pepper park, the monk span around saw him, and killed him. that will almost ALWAYS happen. because the monk is even better at the spys game.
Then that spy sucked or was a pistol spy. A sniper can quite easily take out an apu monk. Let's not forget apus are the slowest healers in the game.
Originally posted by KimmyG
OK as of now a Good capped APU vs. a good capped tank is a close fight by the end who ever is left standing will have almost no HP any change to teh APU's speed and aim will make them nothing more than a peice of junk. I think its pretty fair.
I totally agree.
Originally posted by OpTi
i agree with Anthonys
also the only defence i see an apu having IS his ability to runcast, and even then that can be taken away easily with a nice parashock or a shot to the legs. It only takes one
Been aggreed with... meh what ever...
IronMonkey lol no offense but um let me guess that um test with 4 apus vs the ppu was a staged test right?
It never works that way ina rela fight for me. lol i have lots n lots of ppu dogtags if u want to see lol
EDIT: but maybe thats cause ive capped my rares who knows
STAGED!!!
No this was a real fucking fight to drive a bloody capped (PSI Core DS PPU 3) Monk the hell out of our Canyon..
I Can give you a name of the PPU and some of the APU's there..
None of us have our Holy lightning near cap...
But yeah we are gimped for transporting medkits, loot, boosters...
We run to and from Gogo ALL DAY.... The only (This is the ONLY Benifit to being a APU)
If you can recycle (Clone) You will slowly become Rich as long as you are a monk in a high Loot area (not items or rare parts I am talking cold $$$$$)... Is the only up side :)
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:44
4 apus should have been able to take out that ppu.
Originally posted by Style
i already answered that kimmy, by giving an apu more defence. while it takes them skill to aim.
Yes but l;ike shadow said who wants the same thing let have some difference. If I want to be a fast mover that needs some small ammount of time to aim ill play a PE.
some differenence? 80% of the server im on is a monk? does htta not anser anything, just like when pes where overpowered, everyone was a pe. monks are suposed to be rare it said in the neocron story. neocron is just turning into a world of monks.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
4 apus should have been able to take out that ppu.
K 4 of us in pratcie should...
A we could not jump back and forth from combat to anti buffs fast enough...
He out Healed our damage we where doing 14-60 a hit thanx to his buffs and shit.. and look holy heal got him back to top in 2 seconds...
He never went far from the lift.
If his health was going down fast he vanished to his (SAFE ZONE APARTMENT)
He came down at Full power damage boosted us Holy Parashocked us... Our manuvered us...
If we would have had a good PPU we could have damage boosted him and such as pay back.
If we cuaght him far away from a GR or Lift he would 100% be a Dead PPU...
I can take a PPU 1 on 1 far from safety And I live to tell about it.
But you give him a safe harbor and he can play piss the monks at the bottom off for HOURS...
Shit we had 3 spy's 4 tanks, a few APU's a batch of pistol riffle PE's and this SAME Monk managed to live through it all... thanx to his safe zone...
He had a total upper hand as a PPU.. a safe harbor for a CM in a TG storm... He could heal buff check armor get boosters he was set...
So yeah that would be how a single PPU can out last a group of APU's give him a place to hide.
Yeah and a stealthin spy is still a dead spy thanx to barrel spells :)
Who ever those 4 APU's are they suck ass. 2 should be more than enough.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 00:58
Originally posted by Style
some differenence? 80% of the server im on is a monk? does htta not anser anything, just like when pes where overpowered, everyone was a pe. monks are suposed to be rare it said in the neocron story. neocron is just turning into a world of monks.
That has nothing to do with skill level, it has to do with the over-inflated importance KK has placed on PPU monks, and giving only OTHER monks(apus) the power to take them down.
monks are fine
if u cant beat monks then...get some skills
i see more PEs around lately then monks. most of them suck tho
Richard Blade
02-09-03, 01:05
My PPU can parashock spam things that are running around corners. Two to three shots will still hit around the corner.
The first time I tried a Monk in beta, I was surprised that they didn't have a reticle. Every class has a retice except the monks.
Making them aim a little would help things a bit, I'd think.
Even if it's not a full cycle like a rifle, half cycle like a pistol. Just enough to make them aim. The reticle could close the fastest of any in the game, it would be an improvement.
I was running a tank out to the bunker a month ago and somebody nailed him with three poison stacks, a parashock or something that stuck him to the ground, and 3 HL's. All that in about three seconds. Nothing my tank could do but die. The monk was three times his level, but still, it's not right. Another tank the same level as the monk couldn't kill him that fast.
OT: Welcome back Style, it's been a while. :)
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 01:14
Originally posted by Richard Blade
I was running a tank out to the bunker a month ago and somebody nailed him with three poison stacks, a parashock or something that stuck him to the ground, and 3 HL's. All that in about three seconds. Nothing my tank could do but die. The monk was three times his level, but still, it's not right. Another tank the same level as the monk couldn't kill him that fast.
Parashock and HL?
interesting.
Anyways unless that tank was a turret, I don't see how the apu could land 6 spells in 3 seconds. Secondly, an apu would get killed just as easy if the tank ganked him.
No one can kill the tank that fast, but i'm sure the tank can kill the apu equally fast.
Nope that would ruin monks. Plan and simple only shot they stand is insta aim and a hard hit add 1/2 sec to there shots and there toast.
And what lvl was ur tank that got owned in 3 secs? as of now ur argumant is invaild if he was a capped out APU and u were a 20 tank with battle armour and 0 enr resist then sure 3secs is possible same thing would happen if I stuck my CS up your ass a pulled the trigger.
Richard Blade
02-09-03, 01:31
It may have been just before the nerf on hybrids, and KimmyG, I seem to recall the monks name looked a lot like yours.
Anyway, my tanks rank was something like 40/38. He was using a Paw of Tiger. He is my first tank and I've been experimenting with his resist and armor. So, anyone who wants to say I don't know what I'm doing and my tank is shit, you're right.
(warning - I'm not complaining about the ganking, and I don't want any other carebears to bitch about this either - It just happens that KimmyG is in this thread and my example supports my position on reticles.)
@Shadow The tank wouldn't have ganked the monk, they were faction allies. Also, he couldn't have done it anyway. Too low of a level and his weapons wouldn't have done the job. basically, the tanks setup is messed up. But, he had that many spells landed in about three seconds. Maybe four if you want the benefit of doubt.
But going back to the topic, having him raped that fast is proof to me that if a reticle system were in use, he may have stood a chance to draw his paw of tiger and scratch himself while the monk laughed his ass off from 40meters away.
this thread is gonna be another in a long line of people (mainly tanks) complaing about how they died to a apu monk.
neocron is just turning into a world of monks.
yes in part, monks = OP war victory
everyman and his dog has a PE now, the game is littered with PE's since the pistol boost, i think they are most balenced class of all, they are also very deadly to everyone, used in the right way will everyone, but a ppu.
on the point of 4 apu monks not being able to tackle a ppu, god man you must have been asleep, 2 apu's should be able to kick the shit out of most ppu's
i can think of only 3 ppu's on saturn who are good enough to live from a double apu attack
Andy
bedtime for me now, cya
KidWithStick
02-09-03, 01:39
i honostly just read your first sentance, and nothing else...so im sorry, i just gotta say this.
insane damage? with a 120 all stats holy lightning and 170 APU i did 30 damage in TWO hits right in a row to a PE.
i do not think that this is "insane damage"
we never miss? sorry to tell you but unless you have pretty high damage on a spell you cant runcast it for beans. not to mention i personally miss fast targets alot, like PE's, because there small and harder to hit. just because if i press fire and im on the target when i press it and it hits doesnt mean i never miss...i got 250 manapool, if the targets moving i may only be able to hit him 2-3 times before i need to pop a booster and wait. and normally thats my downfall.
APU's are not overpowered, they habe barely better defence than a spy, and not always stronger attack than a tank.
not to mention, that APU's are suppose to be the most damage dealing character in the game.
Originally posted by KidWithStick
i
insane damage? with a 120 all stats holy lightning and 170 APU i did 30 damage in TWO hits right in a row to a PE.
heh not much but imo hl shines because runcasting at it's insane rof the dmg soon whacks up, failing that flick between a couple of spells.
Also sometimes the red number that comes of it lags behind a bit when the hl gets kicked into gear.... i've seen hl devastate through targets (Sheltered/Unsheltered/Tanks etc) like a cheese wire through cheese purely because the guy had racked of mad amounts of hits in such a short space of time.
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 02:01
richard me and kimmy g doint get along very well
in fact we are opposite players of the spectrum and yet i am still here tellign you a reticle is a bad bad idea lol
im not going to disregard his posts or say the point is invalid just because what he thinks is fun isnt what i think is fun. Nor should u, the facts remain the facts.
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 02:04
Originally posted by LTA
heh not much but imo hl shines because runcasting at it's insane rof the dmg soon whacks up, failing that flick between a couple of spells.
Also sometimes the red number that comes of it lags behind a bit when the hl gets kicked into gear.... i've seen hl devastate through targets (Sheltered/Unsheltered/Tanks etc) like a cheese wire through cheese purely because the guy had racked of mad amounts of hits in such a short space of time.
btw in case u didnt know you cant switch up as an apu the only spell that does better dmg than hl is fa and thats now random too and uses alot more mana and since well u can only cast hl 8 times before your freq goes tyo 30-/min i dotn quite understand what u mean about stckas up since 30x8 = 240
and in case u didnt know that HL only does insane damage on people who forgot to skill energy resists. lol
Richard Blade
02-09-03, 02:13
and in case u didnt know that HL only does insane damage on people who forgot to skill energy resists. lol
That would be me. hehe.
I'm suggesting all classes should have a reticle. APU and PPU.
I hear what you both are saying about it. I think it goes deeper than what's on the table. Being able to cast around corners and stack ungodly amounts of damage on someone because you spammed the mouse button is an 'abuse' of the mechanics of the game.
I can't shoot you around the corner with my Tangent epic rifle.(no, not the tanks.) I can't hit you four times with that rifle from mashing the mouse button four times while it is shooting the first volley. I have to aim and shoot every shot.
Something is wrong with that aiming system and needs to be fixed before a reticle would be fair for monks. but, I still say they need one. Especially with the way it can be abused right now.
Well plain and simple these threads of recent are nothing more than HATE crying about the day of the godly tank and LIB PE being over. Its a new world and monks have been discovered and are used well now live with it the day of the freeze sounds of the pistol followed by a lib or CS owning are done.
Lethal Virus
02-09-03, 02:37
Hey Style! Welcome back!
If you gonna start a PK clan again, start it on Pluto, I'll join in a second :)
I am an apu monk, and I think the system of no reticle is perfect now; but in the supposition that we are forced to chose...
If apu monks get a reticle:
#1 The fizzle effect should be removed
- When my target slips outside my aim a milisecond after the cast, I fizzle.
- When I have bad fps or lag, my spell fizzle.
- When I cast in the air, my spell fizzle.
- When I dont have 550% or more damage in my spell stats, I fizzle while running.
The fizzle effect means losing the chance to fight back during 3 seconds ore more (depending of the module used), and this time can mean, and usually mean, the dead of the apu monk.
#2 Monks should be allowed to max the psi pool (mana)
- Our ammo is our mana, which is gimped in apu monks (average of 300, usually less) in order to get good damage in our spells.
#3 The ammo delivery MUST be changed
- With the current system the psi monk needs to carry the ammo in his quickbelt, thus losing slots for spells and drugs. This also means that our depleted magazines (psi boosters) need to be re-dragged to quick-belt from inventory, usually during the combat, hence losing one of our primary advantages, the dodge and speed, due the need of standing still during this transaction.
- We also lack of auto-reload.
#4 the psi boosters should be instant again, or the delay time significantly reduced
Having no reticle is a feature implemented in the game to allow the apu to play his role, the Damage Dealer in the game. With this he can cast fast and deal equaly fast damage over the target.
- When the apu monk depletes his clip (psi energy pool), the psi booster has a delay time of at least 5 seconds, a higher reload time than any other weapon in the game, even cannons. If he tries to cast during the booster replenish effect, the result is a gimped RoF of 20/min from its original 105/min.
#5 The Rate of Fire (or Cast Rate) should be highly re-increased
- If the apu monk loses his hability of target-cast, and by means of a reticle needs to target-focus-cast, his hability to deal fast damage (*read previous point) would be lost. To compensate this he needs to adquire a fair ammount of cast rate. Currently it is at 105/min (87/min in Fire Apocalypse) due lag problems in the past, very low.
#6 Healing Rate and basic buffing system
- At the moment nule in apu monks. It is a bit unfair regarding our class, and of course comparing it with any other in the game.
____________________
This is what comes to my mind with some reflexion; I played following your rules in this thread Style, and pointed the main problems of the apu class, and necessary fixes if a reticle is implemented.
However the classes in Neocron are connected one with each other, and changing one means tweaking the very fragile existent balance, and possibly agravating the also existent unbalance in the game.
Welcome back to the game and... many things have changed, and the combat style has been modified, for all classes. New developments regarding possibilities and skills is what you have missed in this time. Your return is welcome, but you need to learn again how to play the game, and your class.
A little in another topic: Hiding behind a corner to fight an apu monk... is not a good idea, and a bad tactic to fight a class specialized in deal fast and heavy damage.
Originally posted by KidWithStick
APU's are not overpowered, they habe barely better defence than a spy, and not always stronger attack than a tank.
lol ?
an apu taking 65 dmg from a capped cs ( all blobs hit ) isnt nearly the same as a spy man... o_O
and yes we tested unbuffed...
anyway i think apus should have an recycle _and_ slightly better defense
.cy
StoneRayne
02-09-03, 02:58
OMG, I totally agree!
APUs need a reticle. Come on, you can't beat it. APUs already shoot bolts of lightning out of their ass(Braveheart) - well, not really, but they move their hand up and down! Now we need to aim our hand as if it has a sniper-rifle scope mounted on one of the fingers. Let me think which finger. Hmm.. Hey Style, how about this: the middle finger? ::angel:
Now we come upon the time when someone mentions the ability of Psi monks to do that insanely unskillful thing - to target you when you just hid behind a rock.
It's another one of those unbalanced things. PSI monks having the ability to predict where you're going, and targeting you while you're getting out of their sight is absolutely not right.
Actually, hey sherlock, you do realize that before people bitched about insane ROF on spells, when capped at 150? Back then this 'bug' you speak of right now didn't exist because the spells hit you pretty fast after cast. Now, after you got our RoF nerfed by almost 33%, you want us to become a M-Fudging turret? Or maybe, you want to turn all APUs into the targets from the shooting galley? Hey, I won't mind. If you give us some defense, go for it.
But as long as I die in 4 bursts of CS, gimp my pool to shit, and have 30 max load, you can stick that idea up your butt =)
Btw, this whole RoF thing, I'm not even talking about the way Psi Boosters got fkd over. Technically, considering that after I shoot 9 HLs, my RoF becomes like 40/min, our RoF got nerfed by 70%.
On 2 issues...
if you're a sniping (long range spy) and you get killed by an APU, well uhm..I'd say you're basically sad. You know, it's not that hard... Snipe, stealth, relocate, snipe, stealth, relocate. Hey, don't take my word for it. It's common knowledge, that's what OP combat spies are based on.
And 4 APUs couldn't kill a PPU... What's so unbelievable? Maybe I'm missing something... From my experiences as a PPU, I think I can state that as long as the opposite team has no PPUs, and the area has SOME places of cover, the PPU should absolutely not die against any number of people. Actually, the more people the better, in my opinion :)
Edit: .cy, was this the LOWEST, or the average? I hadnt played in a week or two, and hadn't really tried with monk PA to sort my resists again, but back then my lowest was like 64. Average was like 80 (all 4). Can we compare setups?
Cyclon, 65 damage from a full burst of a CS.
I do not believe it, since many tests, of several people (included me), showed how a tank cannot reduce the damage from a CS down to 94 in head burst.
Are you telling us, that a monk with 45 cons, can reduce this..?
That test havent been done properly.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 03:06
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
lol ?
an apu taking 65 dmg from a capped cs ( all blobs hit ) isnt nearly the same as a spy man... o_O
and yes we tested unbuffed...
:rolleyes:
Anyways Slewer thank you for your post, it was the best yet and I totally agree if we get recticle of guns like other classes we should also have the benefits as well.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Cyclon, 65 damage froma full burst of a CS.
I do not believe it, since many tests, of several people (included me), showed how a tank cannot reduce the damage from a CS down to 94 in head burst.
Are you telling us, that a monk with 45 cons, can reduce this..?
That test havent been done properly.
LOL ?
a tank cant get below 94 dmg from a ful cs burst... ???
erm... my tank took wayyy less dmg.. o_O
believe it or not he took 65 dmg ca from a cs burst
/e .. i mean the monk^^
@arc... ah yea.. i agree... :rolleyes:
Remember, head shots, all blobs hit.
Take my word as the truth or not, but I am pointing at it from facts, my tests, and many people experiences and tests shared in this forum.
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 03:13
I thought people in system shock were supposed to know shit?
Cyl0n sounds like he doesn't.........................................
There are certain rules in Neocron.
Any variation of said rules, is either exploiting(intentional or otherwise), or an abnormality.
The frequency of the abnormality is normally what is used to dictate the likelihood of exploitation or faulty data.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Remember, head shots, all blobs hit.
Take my word as the truth or not, but I am pointing at it from facts, my tests, and many people experiences and tests shared in this forum.
sorry i had other experiences... :p
anyway i agree with all 6 points in your post.. this would be a good solution
@ qd omg... dude dont start with some exploit shit here.. just think about monks resists / armor...:rolleyes:
.cy
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 03:20
There is a theoretical minimum damage you can take from a fully connecting Non-AoE CS Burst to the head, even with maximum resists.
I admit, it's below 94, but it ain't the numbers you're throwing about dude :p
The numbers you're looking at, is as if the fourth bolt missed, or the fourth bolt was an AoE hit.
Resists work fine, most people should be able to appreciate this by now, what most people get annoyed about, is that resists do not work as efficiently as they had hoped.
They're fine by me.
However, theoretically (bleh), Tanks, Spies(That don't use drugs) and APUs cannot get less than a certain amount of damage out of certain weapon types...
That is 76% resistance of the damage done with zero resists and the exact same HP as tested on...
That's why I felt your answer was a little amaturish :P
.Cyclon, first glad to know that you agree with my "on topic" post.
Regarding the off topic:
I have made several setups of resists for monks and PE's, I have to admit that not so many for my tank or spies.
My last setup was a PE using shelter and heat 1; I managed with all of these buffs to take 10 heat and 8 x-ray CS bursts.
The health was 465, with buffs and shelter I was not able to reduce this in any way.
People like VetteroX managed to take 12 CS bursts, yet I have to see proofs of this.. maybe now that he is on Saturn I might have the chance.
I have spent time myself, and assisted at tests made by well-known tanks in saturn, and not any tank have even approached to these results without buffs.
My monk has 305 health, and can take 3 CS bursts, at the 4th he dies. This is starting for the head, and empty all the hitboxes carefully.
The last apu setup that I have seen is one wearing resistor and moveon, with a drug that allows you to use exp heart 2. He needs a psi combat booster 3 to compete, thus becoming a ppu dependant. Still waiting his results in retail, atm from a head shot CS burst, I only have seen PE's taking 60-64 damage, and very few of these.
I'm not trying to convince you, and definetly I wont force you to accept these facts. But when I see an statement like the one you made in the previous post, I have to reply with the results of my tests, at least for the sake of showing people a different truth.
I know of some others in this forum who came to similar results... 94 CS burst in head is my generic result in a tank. I dont think anyone can reduce it much more. I have seen Promethius (I miss you mate :() taking 74 damage in a fast test in Peeper Park; never seen anyone taking less than him.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 03:36
Vettero indeed takes alot of bursts, like 12 I think. I remmeber seeing him do it.
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 03:42
There's a reason my list excluded shelter users :p
vet isn't the only one that can take 10-15 CS Bursts(All I have to do is change one chip), but that's in full defence mode, same as me... most people rarely, if ever, if they even know how, use that, it's too expensive, and too ineffective outside duels.
In full defence mode (without the chip change) I can take 38 on a CS Burst, full head connection (non-AoE)...
Considering I typically have 400hp when buffed, this means typically, I can take 10 bursts, I can get better than that, but not much better....
look, how would giving a ppu a reactle that closes quicker then a pistol destroy a monk? seriously... monks are not dodgable. NAME ONE PERSON the best person in this game you suck up to that can dodge a monk for then a minute.
and kimmy, i was not even a pistol pe k thanks. and hate still went on after freezers, we left because quickbelts sucked, not because of any nerf to weapons. we used to pk whenever we was online and not touch a mob. but then it was not possible because we gained nothing from pking. we aint like the new type of players who play this game for a big ego - because thats all you get with this system. back then do you know how fun it was to fight for each others weapon? and then that fun was gone when quickbelts came in. so please dont give me that bullshit HATE left because we where shit. you did'nt even see us play back then. no one pked like hate did in retail. and thats why we are known by most of saturn who played around those times.
you all saying that i got no skill if i cant kill an apu, i can kill an apu, but i have trouble with every apu in the game and half of them could'nt even hit me i bet because i would be able to dodge. if a PE or a spy can kill a gentank THEN SO could a apu.
38 QD, maybe you are mistaking your head with your big toe finger :p
What about if we stop hijacking the thread and go back to the topic :lol:
and all you 'uber' monks who say no to this system, if there was a reactle and you are THAT good then you wont have any problems with a reactle WILL YOU?
GOODNIGHT.
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 04:08
...hey sleawer, you just made me realise if I was going for absolute defence, I could actually bring it down even further o_O
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 04:15
styles. I cans ee where your going with this. All you want to do is make it look like us 'uber' monks who arent even really uber are trying to keep it the same so we cans till eb so 'uber' even though we arent uber. In fact we can be beat by skilled players in every other class. Just liek we have a slight chance to beat skilled players in every other class. Seriously if its the reticle thing that makes you think you got killed you really need to step back and take a look at how you approach pvp.
Sometimes i can kill an apu n ppu combo alone with tactics. Soemtimes a solo PE can kill me. Sometimes i can totally destroy a tank. sometimes a tank totally destroys me. Soemtimes me and the tank destroy eachother to the point that a ppu will heal us both just to see the fight last longer. It's liek a deck of cards it can fall either way anytime depending onw hat you do. If yoiu really think its this whole reticle thing. Maybe u need to step back and take a look at what you are doing. Or how your resists are skill vs your armor. Or your speed or your own skills. Or how u fight a monk. There are alot of PE's who know how to fiught monks really well, there are alot of tansk too. and there are many spies who will own a apu way before the apu can ever even see him lol
All im saying is before u ask for such things consider how you are approachiong the situation. Fawkes and S a W are 2 great PE's that have little trouble or none fighting monks or tanks or pe'
s or spies. In fact sometimes they will even fight them all at once lol. I could name many a tank who has wiped the floor with my dead body and they will tell you how i am so unskilled and such. But its really all situation dependant and how one reacts and deals with the situation = the outcome.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
There is a theoretical minimum damage you can take from a fully connecting Non-AoE CS Burst to the head, even with maximum resists.
I admit, it's below 94, but it ain't the numbers you're throwing about dude :p
The numbers you're looking at, is as if the fourth bolt missed, or the fourth bolt was an AoE hit.
Resists work fine, most people should be able to appreciate this by now, what most people get annoyed about, is that resists do not work as efficiently as they had hoped.
They're fine by me.
However, theoretically (bleh), Tanks, Spies(That don't use drugs) and APUs cannot get less than a certain amount of damage out of certain weapon types...
That is 76% resistance of the damage done with zero resists and the exact same HP as tested on...
That's why I felt your answer was a little amaturish :P
the answer is : KK LOGIC o_O :lol: o_O
nah you can really really get low dmg as a tank from a cs burstt then you're insane weak against all other types of weapons :)
and remember..... its just.. KK..logic...
:p
ps: and now i stop hijacking the thread too :p
/e with the cs thing i mean only one part.. xray _or_ fire.. :)
.cy
all im trying to do is seperate the good players from the players who just play a monk to point and click.
its near impossible to fight a group of people when they got a apu or ppu with them.
Style, you are obviously a fucking genius.
I don't think its a coincidence that almost every pker agrees that psi monks are overpowered and need to be nerfed x3.
Why do we know things you carebears do not? Because we pvp a little more than you do. All we do is fight other players and as a result know what the hell we are talking about. Why do you insist on argueing that psi monks are balanced when its blatantly obvious they arent.
Monks need to be nerfed and always have been. They need a reticle like the other classes, their damage needs to be avoidable like the other classes weapons, and they shouldnt have more constitution than a spy. Monks should not get their own special rules aside from the other 3 classes. The only reason monks are in this game is to give the bad players a way to actually do well in this game. I found it rather pathetic.
QuantumDelta
02-09-03, 04:23
hmm...
Don't think a APU could take advantage of that... :P
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 04:29
Originally posted by ClownBoat
Style, you are obviously a fucking genius.
I don't think its a coincidence that almost every pker agrees that psi monks are overpowered and need to be nerfed x3.
Why do we know things you carebears do not? Because we pvp a little more than you do. All we do is fight other players and as a result know what the hell we are talking about. Why do you insist on argueing that psi monks are balanced when its blatantly obvious they arent.
Monks need to be nerfed and always have been. They need a reticle like the other classes, their damage needs to be avoidable like the other classes weapons, and they shouldnt have more constitution than a spy. Monks should not get their own special rules aside from the other 3 classes. The only reason monks are in this game is to give the bad players a way to actually do well in this game. I found it rather pathetic.
Clown there is no way you pvp more than me. All i do is fight op wars sometimes my pvp battles last a week at a time. If my op gets attacked by 10 peeps i goto fight them ALONE if noone else is on. i love pvp. What you are trying to do has nothign to do with pvp and everythign to do with just making yourself a bit better.
Let me tell you somthign styles. Fight a good pvp monk 1v1 thn fight a poitn n click as an excuse to eb a monk in 1v1 and you will surely know the difference.
Its rather obvious. You WILL beat slaughter in fact a poor monk vs a skilled one. The problem is you think all monks are poor because you swear all they ahve to do is point and click. Yoiu forget about all the other things a monk has to do to his charcter to be so 'uber' enough to kill you. Since after all you are the number 1 pker.
Perhaps if you looked at my skills etyup you might realize how fucked i am in certain areas to be able to compete solo without a ppu up my ass against players like you. Yes those leet pkers.
And clown anytime your ready ill take up an offer to own you in any class you rpefer rather than my apu. Just to show you how much i suck and need to be point and click to be good. In fact name the class, and ill make one tommorow and power level it up and lets go. I'm sick of people with your pathetic mentality. Who swear monks are just shitty players who need monks to eb skilled. Yes i suppose thats why FAWKES made a monk right? Because he has no skill as a pe ROFL(1 million nc saays he owns you in 1v1 on his PE).
This thread is just getting more rediculous the longer it goes on
StoneRayne
02-09-03, 04:38
Rofl.
Pkers pvp more than everyone else? Well shit you l33t d00d. I guess there's one problem that you're having, that when you're known as a noob killer, APUs just basically own you, and don't have to chase you all the way around sewers to kill you like any other class.
Go back to the sewers noob. Or how about you go duel? If you go try to duel you'll get R-A-P-E-D like a noob you are.
Shush.
I do pvp more than you. That isn't up for debate. Op Wars are candy coated pvp for carebears. They shouldnt even count.
Your post is too idiotic to even comprehend. Brush up on your spelling and grammar skills and then you can try argueing. Until then maybe you should do your english homework instead of playing neocron.
AS i said monkey. a reactle will ill seperate the good monks from the rest. if you are good it should'nt bother you. i aint saying no monk has no skill. im saying they should be dodgable. this aint a thread about 'who owns who' like you are trying to turn it into.
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 04:44
they are dodgeable perhaps u just ahvent learned how to dodge them yet lol
Thats why u got so much speed, perhaps if u used that speed and didnt run in straight lines u might understand because look if i click on u but in that second u move guess what i fizzle. There is a mechanism built in for dodging. Thats the problem here is you guys dont adress everyones points you just want it burger king style. I want it my way and i want it now. I also find it noticeable how clownboat is right there with you. In fact i find it more hilarious that clownboat says he pvps more than me but yet he is nowhere in sight in pepper park EVER. In fact the only places i ever see clownboat are at HQ's.
Clown i made you an offer. Actually i made u two offers. If your sucka (such a) leet pker take them up clown.
EDIT: And as for my grammar i could care less to sit here on a forum makign sure every word is spelled properlly, and every sentance has the proper punctuation. Or if i made any typos. Or if i made run on sentances. I finished high school 11 years ago man. I have to do that at work. I don't care about making everything pretty for an in game forum.
Don't make me make you get a dictionary just to prove a point.
"this aint a thread about 'who owns who' like you are trying to turn it into. "
I believe i was responding to clownboat and his monks are just shitty players whom have no skilla nd need a point and click to be good. This is clearly not the case, and that is what i am trying to prove. I have resorted to who owns who because that is the only way you can speak to clownboat and his type of mentality. Forgive me if i made you think otherwise.
monkey, ignore clownboat. i aint saying this stuff for no reason ok? you are assuming im saying this stuff just to own shit up. im saying this stuff for the good art of skillfull pvp. as i said i will say this for a 2nd time like everything else i have to explain for you guys to understand my point of view? maybe i have bad englih i dont know. but monks are not dodgable, yes you can dodge maybe 1 cast? but that is what? half a second?
if there was a reticle and you are as good as you speak then it should'nt bother you. and monks are'n even supposed to be solo charecters, they are supposed to be team charecters? so whats with the one on one stuff anyway. all of you players are in a team most the time anyway if you are into OP wars PP wars whatever.
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 04:59
style it will bothger me because listen the reason why there are good monks is based on a few things. An apu monk cannot stop to aim he has to move, he has fuck all for defense none whatsoever tbh. Its laughable at a monks con setup. By giving a monk a reticle you will nullify his speed because he will have to sloooooowww down. Now sure giving us better defense would solve this issue but this is where it turns hellish. By giving an apu a reticle and better defenses to compinsate. You will than turn the apu's that exist after this into ppu constanly buffed apus. Now what happens here is you will nearly double to triple the apu's defense. Which will than result in a very unbalanced situation which will lead to people complaining more about monks. I dont know if you understand this but the rest of the game is being built aroudn the monks attack style. Lupus has posted his ideas previously but the threads have been removed. So perhaps if you have a little patience a fix should be comming along shortly. Perhaps not the end all be all of monks death but it would be much more balanced than what we have currently. And trust me its a big nerf to apu monks lol, somthing like 1.4 is their dmg ratio now and will be moved to 1.0
Sometimes you have to step back and look at the bigger picture of it all. If you turn me into a turret with no buffs im going to get some buffs. Which than means i will last 3x as long and deal the same amount of damage as i did before hand. It wouldnt be a pretty sight lol
@Style, monks are dodgable, I do, everyone does, you just need to strafe properly. Monks still need to aim your frame, the reticle only makes the aiming faster, but not easier.
@QD, I'm totally sure 38 is the damage to your toe finger, not the head. I could take an average of 60 head burst with the PE, how much do you think I could take with psi shield?
ok, i just come back to this game, but if more is still to be done i will be patient. bu would been nice if someone told me this before i posted all these posts :)
we will disscuss at a later date
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 05:07
yes and when it gets done you will be bitching about droners and not apus LOL because they are going to have apu dmg lol and the first few shots you will have no idea where they are comming from lol
EDIT:oh and just to clearify this is lupus's vision or project he is working on to balance everything out and in now way is yet endorsed by KK or has been said officialy by KK.
lol. that will be funny :)
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 05:24
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
/e with the cs thing i mean only one part.. xray _or_ fire.. :)
.cy
*sigh*
Then why did you even bother stating it? That's like giving a spy 0 in athletics and giving him all energy and x-ray armor then saying "OMG MY SPY TAKES 40 BURSTS SO UR ALL WRONG"
Originally posted by Style
look, how would giving a ppu a reactle that closes quicker then a pistol destroy a monk? seriously... monks are not dodgable. NAME ONE PERSON the best person in this game you suck up to that can dodge a monk for then a minute.
apu. If anyone gets a recticle it should be apu, why on earth would ppu get recticle? :confused:
Secondly, if someone has good aim their gonna hit you no matter what. I agree though that's it harder to dodge apus. I'm scared to fight apus myself, and i'm apu. Anyways, the ONLY class that has a right to bitch about not being able to kill apus is the pistol spy.
Originally posted by Style
and all you 'uber' monks who say no to this system, if there was a reactle and you are THAT good then you wont have any problems with a reactle WILL YOU?
GOODNIGHT.
No. We're saying if you're gonna give us a recticle, then you have to give us the benefit of gun style attacks as well. Slewer listed all of them. I would be ok with getting a recticle if all of Sewer's points were also given to us.
Clown no offense but stfu. Styles is nowhere like you from what I see. I totally think he's missing my point, but I don't see him flaming or FROTHING and DROOLING at the mouth about the destruction of all monks.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 05:26
Originally posted by IronMonkey
yes and when it gets done you will be bitching about droners and not apus LOL because they are going to have apu dmg lol and the first few shots you will have no idea where they are comming from lol
EDIT:oh and just to clearify this is lupus's vision or project he is working on to balance everything out and in now way is yet endorsed by KK or has been said officialy by KK.
Sorry but droners would be vastly overpowered with apu damage. I hope lupus had the flu when he said that.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
*sigh*
Then why did you even bother stating it? That's like giving a spy 0 in athletics and giving him all energy and x-ray armor then saying "OMG MY SPY TAKES 40 BURSTS SO UR ALL WRONG"
arc....you take around 100 dmg from a fire cs and WAY LESS from a xray cs....thats what i meant....:rolleyes:
.cy
Mr Friendly
02-09-03, 05:45
style, apu monks are supposed to do the most dmg & kill the quickest, also be the only class able to shoot through walls & such, & as a consequence for choosing this class, we have zero defences, drop like flies, have very low HP, and not so good resists with only 45 con.
every class has its advantages & disadvanatges.
also, the reason u were slaughtered in NF....well......think man, u were against 3 apu monks. not even a ppu can stand against 3 :p
but anyway, yeah, basically for a tank to kill an apu, u definently shouldnt run, just get up in his face & blast ur CS :D
Richard Blade
02-09-03, 05:59
I play with a monk also. I wouldn't want him nerfed like what some of you are thinking.
The reticle I suggest would aim very fast. Probably as fast as you do now.
My rifle spy can run and aim at the same time. He can maintain a lock as well.
The reticle would be used to prevent spamming the mouse to hit the target when he has left your range. KK could make it so you still shoot faster than any other class. Just not by spamming the person to death.
If you can't keep a lock on the target with the reticle I'm thinking about, then you probably can't hit anything now without it.
I bet everyone that defends psi monks on here plays a psi monk exclusively.
You need to think outside of your tiny box and understand that there are 3 other classes also. None of which are as powerful as yours.
This isn't fair and calls for nerfing.
Please, please please try to think before you start posting useless crap. Thanks.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 06:21
Originally posted by ClownBoat
I bet everyone that defends psi monks on here plays a psi monk exclusively.
You need to think outside of your tiny box and understand that there are 3 other classes also. None of which are as powerful as yours.
This isn't fair and calls for nerfing.
Please, please please try to think before you start posting useless crap. Thanks.
omg I wish you were banned, but I don't think you're breaking any rules atm.
IronMonkey
02-09-03, 06:23
clown how much hp do you have(more than 250?), how much resists do you have(more than 2 skills at 60 50?? how much speed do you have(more than 80 agl 50 ath?)? how much frequency does your weapon fire at? how fast does it take for your weapon to end up dropping down to 30 shots per minute after u fire your weapon 8 times? Do you have to wait 5 seconds to reload in order to get back your max frequncy? Do you have to do this every 8 shots?
Clown sorry answer these questions and than the question might actually end up in reverse of your statements here.
Mr Friendly
02-09-03, 06:24
read my post in page 6 clown
god, ur one of those NERF TEH MONKS guys......omg, ur almost as low as hackers to me :p
ericdraven
02-09-03, 11:19
Clowny, i rather think it is YOU who plays only ONE class and it is YOU who gets ganked all the time by APUs.
Am i right or.. am i right? ;)
{MD}GeistDamnit
02-09-03, 11:52
people will never be happy till monks are deleted from the game :/
sad sad indeed. and im sick of it :mad:
well wasnt going to post here as i figured it would just end up a nerf the monk thread.
but styles not just saying nerf the monk like some people.
well as a monk, maybe we should have somthing done maybe the recticle idea is the way to go, as it pointed out every other class has it why not monks.
though the recticle would have to close fairly quick, as monks should be attacking from a distance, if the recticle too forever to close in, we would lose our main advantage, the distance we can fire.
presumebly it would be based on psi use intel subskill if it was introuduced, and as most monks have most if not all in that, then we should see it close fairly quick.
@clownboat, you have only been posting a short amount of time and your beginning to annoy me with you constant complaining about monks.
@style: just wondering, you say you got killed by apus, but whats your setup like, as i remember you left the game before the epics came in and the changes to poison etc, so is you setup still "old school" i was taking heavy damage as a tank from holy lightning(still do take a fair amount of damage) but with proto chip helps a lot, and the speed gun is pretty damn good at putting monks down, hell the apus dont even like the CS, just thinking maybe your setup needs work on possible, if a monk get the drop on you then yeah he proberbly will take you down, but same goes for any class really.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
I bet everyone that defends psi monks on here plays a psi monk exclusively.
You need to think outside of your tiny box and understand that there are 3 other classes also. None of which are as powerful as yours.
This isn't fair and calls for nerfing.
Please, please please try to think before you start posting useless crap. Thanks.
i've played everyclass in the game and most subclasses, and everyone one that i've played i can kill an apu with. The good apus are ALOT harder than the crap ones and when you meet a good one you know the difference cuz they're the ones who will give you a run for your money even if your a fully capped tank, the average ones and the people who arn't so good you'll take down with ease and i do this very well with my rifle PE. and pistol Pe's do this even better, especialy if they have stealth all it takes is a few lib bursts and any apu (unbuffed) will go down
MjukisDjur
02-09-03, 14:31
Style, please go back to where you were... Apus are paper thin and now you want to take away our damage... ffs
Originally posted by ezza
@style: just wondering, you say you got killed by apus, but whats your setup like, as i remember you left the game before the epics came in and the changes to poison etc, so is you setup still "old school" i was taking heavy damage as a tank from holy lightning(still do take a fair amount of damage) but with proto chip helps a lot, and the speed gun is pretty damn good at putting monks down, hell the apus dont even like the CS, just thinking maybe your setup needs work on possible, if a monk get the drop on you then yeah he proberbly will take you down, but same goes for any class really.
Last I heard he could freeze a person witha pistol and took a shit load from a CS.
Anyway as regard to the aim bad Idea right now the fight ushally ends with the the person standing with like 40-50 HP add anymore time to the monks aim and it makes there no point to being a monk. The monks only str is the ability never to have to stop running.
Richard Blade
02-09-03, 16:12
I keep re-editing this one.
KimmyG, running and aiming with the reticle I'm thinking about would be very easy. It's not supposed to hinder any other aspect of monk aiming other than stopping the spamming of the mouse button to stack spell effects on the target. That would also reduce the number of times the spell goes around a corner.
It will still probably shoot around corners a little.
The reticle should be 2 or 3 times faster than a pistol, hold lock like a cannon, and be able to run without expanding. Or, if it does expand a little, that would replace the fizzle effect.
Originally posted by Richard Blade
I keep re-editing this one.
KimmyG, running and aiming with the reticle I'm thinking about would be very easy. It's not supposed to hinder any other aspect of monk aiming other than stopping the spamming of the mouse button to stack spell effects on the target. That would also reduce the number of times the spell goes around a corner.
It will still probably shoot around corners a little.
The reticle should be 2 or 3 times faster than a pistol, hold lock like a cannon, and be able to run without expanding. Or, if it does expand a little, that would replace the fizzle effect.
So your reticle would basically do absolutely nothing? It wouldn't stop people casting around corners, that's lag and because the RoF on spells is too low. It wouldn't stop people spamming the mouse button because fizzling already does that. If a spell fizzles it still takes mana off your pool but it takes about twice as long as usualy before you can cast again. If you remove the fizzling and add a reticle then people will just spam even more.
ok i read some of todays posts. and i see different points of views. but ezza is right. apus can have a fine good chance of winning up close, mid range, and even beating the spy at long range? at least a reaticle could make monks stay in there plaice as a mid ranged fighter. the more the reacticle closed in the better the damage? like the harde you focus the beter?!
and kimmy, everyone used freezers back then, not just me.
Originally posted by Style
and kimmy, everyone used freezers back then, not just me.
Yes so did I just saying it time to update your setup and you may fair better.
Sorry I haven't read it all. At work don't have time.
Originally posted by Style
ok, APUs are very unbalenced. They do crazy insane damage... and they never miss. this can be sorted by doing it like this,
take away the copbot style halo spells, because i was in neofrag with 3 other apus. i would get hit once by a halo, turn around see the monk, get hit again. run for cover behind a wall, and get hit a further 2 or 3 times. just because they clicked on me alot
There's your mistake. You hid. Get in close and run round the APU.
We might not have to wait for a reticle to close, but if we lose focus of the target we fizzle. Then your looking at a second or two to recover before we can try again. This happens a few times and we're dead.
Thats short range covered. If you know how to fight an APU you can win quite easily.
What about long range? You mentioned an APU beating a sniper...
I have yet to see any spell with that type of range. 2 or 3 shots from a good sniper and I'm dead. Before I get into range.
Medium range is the only place we have a good chance, but as mentioned we don't have good defence against force/pierce, so if you have a gat (which seems to be pretty good at med range) you can take us.
they can also run cast which is the worst of all this
spells need to be casted in a straight line. i mean, if psis can have these copbot style halo spells why did the pe loose their copbot rifle? thats not fair at all
Do you mean beams? Halos aren't anything special. Thats our only high level non rare, non AoE weapon. Did they take all your high level rifles? No I don't think so.
If we cap a spell we can runcast. Its not always completely reliable, and if you get a fizzle you have to stand still and wait for it to finish. Why shouldn't we be able to move though?
With the worst defence in the game, you want us to stand still? Why don't you get rid of monks and let us be turrets? People can drop us at ops and we can wait for an attack.
and then the psis aint even got a reactle to prevent this from happning??
i say make mental steadiness like weapon lore, so concentrating to 'summon' a spell will come into good use. so psis can either speichilize in doing deadly damage, or speichilize in being very good at focus
does anyone agree? make your points :)
How much mental steadiness you expecting us to need? Maybe so much to cap aiming, that we can only use an energy bolt? How many other classes need 4 subclasses to use each weapon?
StoneRayne
02-09-03, 18:34
Style, just go and get up to date a little. Get your strafing better and you'll be fine.
And clown..lol. There are 2 types of pvp. Killing people who use Special Forces Knife and fighting people who don't use Special Forces knife.
You belong to first category.
Most people here belong to 2nd
how can i go running at a APU when they are shooting me from a distance sync? the only option was to hide. and i aint come here because my tank on saturn got killed. i made a tank on the test server. 4 tanks in fact.
and to the people who aint read my thread in full, i alfready stated that monks should have better defence.
If you people knew half as much about pvp as me and style I think you would be inclined to agree.
You have to understand that we don't farm stupid monsters, do retarded GM events, or flirt with fellow cutesy carebears. ALL WE DO IS PVP. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
APUs have far too many advantages compared to other classes. Even if a reticle is added or spells have a several second cool down period like SB, they will still be overpowered.
The problem originates from spells that aren't dodgeable and haev an insane range. Suggesting that psi monks spells are dodgeable is laughable. Good psi monks never miss. The only psi monks that can't aim a mean left click are ones that are half retarded and are of no concern anyway.
Monks are weak and thats the weakness? Apparently, you haven't heard of the spy. Why a spy gets less constitution than a fucking casting class is beyond me.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
Apparently, you haven't heard of the spy.
Apparently all you know is how to kill lows lvls at MB. Spy can be the best 1v1 class in the game if set up right. Spend some time on EMS looking at whats available to you and setup ur spy up right and u have a godly unit.
Yea you know alot your not practiceing or seting up your chars better to bring down monks your crying to KK to nerf them for yea.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 20:33
Clownboat you seriously sound like the worst PvPer ever, I wish you were on pluto.
can you people stop turning this thread into who owns who? it is pretty blatent that apus need sorted. and you aint even making good reasons. your just saying shit lik 'we suck' that is why apus are like that. talk sence.
i aint coming here saying we are the best. and either is clownboat. but we know enough about pvp to know what needs changed.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 20:40
Originally posted by Style
and you aint even making good reasons.
We have already stated plenty reasons.
Anyways, can you PLEASE answer my question already? If we got the 6 benefits that "slewer" stated, in exchange for a recticle, would you be ok with that?
Originally posted by Style
can you people stop turning this thread into who owns who? it is pretty blatent that apus need sorted. and you aint even making good reasons. your just saying shit lik 'we suck' that is why apus are like that. talk sence.
Well thats what this is APU's kicked ur ass cause you suck so u clown sit here and say they need to be nerfed.
"we suck' that is why apus are like that"
So yes u suck and thats why u feal APU's need to be nerfed.
i already said i didnt get killed by any apu on saturn yet. so please stop talking shit.
thinking your the best so your opinion is valid and mine aint because you think i such when you have not even seen my pvp yet.
i know people in this game who are probally one the best pvpers in this game who would agree with me.
We don't suck at all. If you played on saturn or weren't a newbie you would understand this. I don't like bragging but when you people won't shut the fuck up and stop calling us newbs I have no choice.
Many of the people that feel APUs are overpowered fucking have APU characters and play on them. Hell, I have a capped APU but I refuse to play him until they take a little bit of fucking skill. If you people had a half a brain you would feel the same way.
Originally posted by Style
i already said i didnt get killed by any apu on saturn yet. so please stop talking shit.
Then whats it matter to you? Lots of good reason have been stated and all I can see is bo nerf them.Anyone who has a problem with the aggy captain constition on an APU is llama.
APU's are weak as shit, hit hard as a bastered then haven high dmg to make up for there frail body add a 5% change to there setyups and there garbage and a usless class.
If you haven't been killed by one yet how do you know they're overpowered? On the test server you get apu monks with capped int, and with everything in psi use they get maximum range. On retail servers there are maybe 5 characters total with capped int. The test server is an extremely biased place to base your assumptions of monks on.
i aint been killed on saturn yet because i've only seen apus in pp. and it's easy enough to just run and zone if im gona die?
but i've seen others being killed by A apu lol
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
an apu taking 65 dmg from a capped cs ( all blobs hit ) isnt nearly the same as a spy man... o_O
and yes we tested unbuffed...
Mind filling in the blanks? Ill tell yea this means zip Hell you could get an APU lower than that and what does that mean zippo.
How good are ur spells
How fast are you
How much HP do u have
How are you all around on dmg taken
Tanking up an APU and droping there CS dmg taken dont mean nothing its easy a shit.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 20:55
Originally posted by Style
i aint been killed on saturn yet because i've only seen apus in pp.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Anyways, can you PLEASE answer my question already? If we got the 6 benefits that "slewer" stated, in exchange for a recticle, would you be ok with that?
StoneRayne
02-09-03, 20:59
Style, it doesn't matter who you're running to, an APU, spy, tank or PE, you don't run towards them in a straight line. Use terrain, or who the hell said you have to go there and kill them? Use 3rd person to look behind obstacles to see what the APU is doing, and ambush him.
If you're trying to PK them, well that's your problem then. Noone ever said that by being a PKer everyone will stand in one place and take it up the ass.
Charging like cavalry at Little Big Horn is NOT a good strategy in most cases in ANY game or situation.
rofl you people are telling hate squad how to pk now.
how funny.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
rofl you people are telling hate squad how to pk now.
how funny.
No im just trying to figure out who cryed more
The lowbies at MB way back?
Or HATE now?
Keep posting maybe HATE will win this little poll.
who said im whinin?
im telling my point of views, your the ones who are whinin for cryin the system should stay how it is
see i can make pointless marks my self
and there is a test server what harm will it be to even test a reacticle on monks out?
instead of us arguing are points that no one will agree with anyway
a devloper should be testing this out o letting the community do so
i know they may be busy
but when they got the time
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 21:09
Styles why are you avoiding my question?
because i aint going through 8 pages to find this question
paste it here please
Originally posted by Style
because i aint going through 8 pages to find this question
paste it here please
How bout searching page 9
its on the top of this page......
which 6 benefits? sorry i don understand
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 21:12
Originally posted by Style
because i aint going through 8 pages to find this question
paste it here please
Would you be ok with apus having a recticle if they got the benefits as well?
Such as the ones listed by slewer in this post:
Originally posted by Sleawer
I am an apu monk, and I think the system of no reticle is perfect now; but in the supposition that we are forced to chose...
If apu monks get a reticle:
#1 The fizzle effect should be removed
- When my target slips outside my aim a milisecond after the cast, I fizzle.
- When I have bad fps or lag, my spell fizzle.
- When I cast in the air, my spell fizzle.
- When I dont have 550% or more damage in my spell stats, I fizzle while running.
The fizzle effect means losing the chance to fight back during 3 seconds ore more (depending of the module used), and this time can mean, and usually mean, the dead of the apu monk.
#2 Monks should be allowed to max the psi pool (mana)
- Our ammo is our mana, which is gimped in apu monks (average of 300, usually less) in order to get good damage in our spells.
#3 The ammo delivery MUST be changed
- With the current system the psi monk needs to carry the ammo in his quickbelt, thus losing slots for spells and drugs. This also means that our depleted magazines (psi boosters) need to be re-dragged to quick-belt from inventory, usually during the combat, hence losing one of our primary advantages, the dodge and speed, due the need of standing still during this transaction.
- We also lack of auto-reload.
#4 the psi boosters should be instant again, or the delay time significantly reduced
Having no reticle is a feature implemented in the game to allow the apu to play his role, the Damage Dealer in the game. With this he can cast fast and deal equaly fast damage over the target.
- When the apu monk depletes his clip (psi energy pool), the psi booster has a delay time of at least 5 seconds, a higher reload time than any other weapon in the game, even cannons. If he tries to cast during the booster replenish effect, the result is a gimped RoF of 20/min from its original 105/min.
#5 The Rate of Fire (or Cast Rate) should be highly re-increased
- If the apu monk loses his hability of target-cast, and by means of a reticle needs to target-focus-cast, his hability to deal fast damage (*read previous point) would be lost. To compensate this he needs to adquire a fair ammount of cast rate. Currently it is at 105/min (87/min in Fire Apocalypse) due lag problems in the past, very low.
#6 Healing Rate and basic buffing system
- At the moment nule in apu monks. It is a bit unfair regarding our class, and of course comparing it with any other in the game.
____________________
Originally posted by ClownBoat
rofl you people are telling hate squad how to pk now.
how funny.
I have seen 3 HATE members lately.
Clownboat - a rank 50 spy that couldn't pk his way out of a cardboard box
Mr. Noob - possibly the *WORST* setup PE I have ever seen, took 90 from a blacksun shot. the name definately applies to him well
Style - took 170 from a CS blast, definately the most gimped tank on the server...how he kills people I will never know, but I guess noob killers dont need good chars.
Anyway the facts are...HATE was good when liberators owned and everyone was gimped so it was gimp v gimp. These days HATE wont get far. Good day.
off cource! thats what i been trying to say all along. thats why i made this thread for people to make a balance if apus a did get a reactle.
Problem with those changes are when you fuck with monks like that you
Father the hybrid.
And befoul other things monks arn't the onyl ones u deal in the black arts. Change Spell use like that there is more than just the monk changed.
ms tibby, i tak lower then 80 of a cs now i have my con adjusted to its level. and i still got like 15 levels to gain in con. thats why i seem so gimped. mr noob is not a hate member, he pretended to be an old hate member thats why we let him in. but we found out the truth, and now he aint in hate. clownboat has been playing this game for 2 weeks. he only knows about the old system because he watched starkes play this game because they know each other.
i been back 2 days, give me time ebfore you start judgin sweety
kthxiclearedthisup.
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 21:24
Originally posted by Style
off cource! thats what i been trying to say all along. thats why i made this thread for people to make a balance if apus a did get a reactle.
Well if those changes are put in I would be fine with a recticle.
But only for apus, ppus shouldnt' get a recticle. That's odd. :D
They could make the speed of the recticle dependent on PSI use. Perhaps you can be like pistols if you have all your points in PSU.
Btw a stealth pe can rape an apu very easily. So can a Steatlh spy. Actually stealth rifle spy, I don't see how a pistol spy stands a chance TBH. ALso their are some tricks for a tank to kill easier, but I won't say. :D
He doesn't talk like a 2 week old player So I really dont belive he is.
ppus shouldnt have the reticle, that would be stupid
but i think the parashock should
thewarrior008
02-09-03, 21:28
SEX
Shadow Dancer
02-09-03, 21:28
Originally posted by Style
ppus shouldnt have the reticle, that would be stupid
but i think the parashock should
I would prefer skill-less shock, oops I mean parashock be removed.
lol :) well... righ now i think they should stay, it's there only way off getting away. but when stealth suit comes for ppus, i think parashcok should go then.
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