View Full Version : Are the NC GMs killing this game?
After the "event" yesterday and the attempt a few weeks ago to deny ingame support to the whole Saturn server over the actions of a few griefers, a reasonable person has to ask if the GMs are qualified to do their jobs? Are they actually hurting the game by driving away paying customers? It sure looks like it.
I enjoy this game and would prefer not to see it go down the tubes because of the unprofessional behaviour of the ingame GMs.
What do the gm's have to do with this? They do as they are told by KK. If KK tells them not to handle any tickets on a server, then they won't. If KK tells them to do these kind of events, then they will do these kind of events.
Get the idea? Don't blame it on the volunteers everytime something goes not the way you like it.
Fine, if the GMs are blameless in all things, then the question should be:
Is Reakktor killing this game? Do they want it to fail?
Helen Angilley
30-08-03, 21:03
Originally posted by Alex Mars
Fine, if the GMs are blameless in all things, then the question should be:
Is Reakktor killing this game? Do they want it to fail?
No matter what Reakktor do they get bitched at.
"We want events!"
*Given an event*
"That vent sucked! You sux KK! We want content!"
*Given content*
"That content sux KK! You sux! Give us events!"
And so on....
Originally posted by Alex Mars
After the "event" yesterday and the attempt a few weeks ago to deny ingame support to the whole Saturn server over the actions of a few griefers, a reasonable person has to ask if the GMs are qualified to do their jobs?.
Here are the dots.
point a) Griefers cause the problems ingame
point b) the GMs are denying service because of the griefers.
point c) griefers are reponsible for the lack of GM support.
point d) your anger should be pointed towards the griefers.
Roc-a-fella
30-08-03, 21:05
i think what we want is a 3 year old game that is balanced, and has lag controlled, and is fun to play for long periods of time
Originally posted by Alex Mars
Is Reakktor killing this game? Do they want it to fail?
Are you being Ignorant? Do you really need everything handed to you on a plate ?
why not take a look here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73354) o_O
There is a wide difference between an event that players participate in and slaughtering unprepared characters while watching as others res them so they can die again and lose lots of equipment.
This is, I know, a subtle distinction lost on many here who have powers of discernment that rival a treestump.
Helen Angilley
30-08-03, 21:07
Originally posted by Roc-a-fella
i think what we want is a 3 year old game that is balanced, and has lag controlled, and is fun to play for long periods of time
So we want the impossible, in other words.
EverQuest has been out for eons. Still has bugs, lag and balancing issues.
Planetside has been out for a while...seen it all after half an hour.
Shadowbane...erm...if you can sign-up then...yeah. Maybe.
Folks, i have a serious question:
How come that Saturn is the
<REVERB>ONLY</REVERB>
Server that keeps bitching about big bad GMs PKing, killing the game, griefing and whatnot?
Serious, WTF is going on on this server? Who the hell thought off this bullshit and turned it into a "well accepted" fact?
Its ALWAYS Saturn! WHY?!
Originally posted by Tazo
Folks, i have a serious question:
How come that Saturn is the
<REVERB>ONLY</REVERB>
Server that keeps bitching about big bad GMs PKing, killing the game, griefing and whatnot?
Serious, WTF is going on on this server? Who the hell thought off this bullshit and turned it into a "well accepted" fact?
Its ALWAYS Saturn! WHY?!
I BLAME STE ! :D
/me runs 8|
Roc-a-fella
30-08-03, 21:12
saturn is the bad egg
Originally posted by Alex Mars
After the "event" yesterday and the attempt a few weeks ago to deny ingame support to the whole Saturn server over the actions of a few griefers, a reasonable person has to ask if the GMs are qualified to do their jobs? Are they actually hurting the game by driving away paying customers? It sure looks like it.
I enjoy this game and would prefer not to see it go down the tubes because of the unprofessional behaviour of the ingame GMs.
GMs have nothing to do with it. They just run the events. That event rocked anyway, you obviously didn't go down to the OZ part which was the main part of the event.
Also GMs are quite probably not qualified... you know why? Because they are fucking volounteers. Yeah no pay. They put up with this bullshit for no pay, and I personally am completely behind them.
Unprofessional behaviour? How easy is it to be professional when you probably have a large amount of people saying that you suck when you are trying your best to do the best that you can do for the game.
Basically you obviously have no idea what you are talking about o_0
Lethal Virus
30-08-03, 21:37
You guys need to get a little bit more respect for the GMs of Neocron, otherwise this game would be shit. No events, no support, no anything. Maybe the GMs should take a few weeks vacation, 2 weeks without any support/events outside the Helpdesk would be hell, I'm sure.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
There is a wide difference between an event that players participate in and slaughtering unprepared characters while watching as others res them so they can die again and lose lots of equipment.
This is, I know, a subtle distinction lost on many here who have powers of discernment that rival a treestump.
I never understand why people go AFK in the first place. You do realize the players can push you to a new zone and do the same thing don't you?
Just wanted to say the GMs denying service was ONLY to the groups of people that constantly harassed and abused them, and that was only for a week.
Originally posted by Odin
I never understand why people go AFK in the first place. You do realize the players can push you to a new zone and do the same thing don't you?
Not if you sit on a bench first, no?
Just wanted to say the GMs denying service was ONLY to the groups of people that constantly harassed and abused them, and that was only for a week.
Nope, untrue, they originally were going to deny service to the whole server, then the public outcry made them change their mind, this is all documented on posts in these forums.
Lethal Virus
30-08-03, 21:50
Originally posted by Hippieman
Just wanted to say the GMs denying service was ONLY to the groups of people that constantly harassed and abused them, and that was only for a week.
Snowcrash also decided not to go though with that plan of no support/events on Saturn. I myself say he should have gone though with the idea, since A LOT of people on Saturn need to be taught a lesson.
Originally posted by Roc-a-fella
i think what we want is a 3 year old game that is balanced, and has lag controlled, and is fun to play for long periods of time
Ill say what i say to all such coments.
Go out there and play the top 5 MMORPGs in the world. Then come back here and tell us how blananced, free of lag and fun to play for long periods of time they are...
Q`alooaith
30-08-03, 23:42
Originally posted by Tazo
Its ALWAYS Saturn! WHY?!
Because, higher population at most times..
more people = more bitching about nothing..
Rummors, somone off handly says something, it gets taken as fact and then complained about by people who know nothing about it..
But then everyone has a saturn alt at one time, so.. *shrugs*
I don't know about how other see this but I have never seen anyone be pushed into another zone unless they are really close. I find it really hard to get someone around the corner.
i have never ever been pushed like that. and never seen it done and i have pushed many a conster in my days.
and i can tell u its damn difficult.
and impossible if you are on a bench.
AND if someone pushes IE a next guy into another zone where they can kill him allies/freinds might have a chance of doing something about it.
Go out there and play the top 5 MMORPGs in the world. Then come back here and tell us how blananced, free of lag and fun to play for long periods of time they are...
This is an ignorant comment. Many of us do not play another MMORPG, nor to we feel the desire to. They all look like they suck, I don't need to play them to know what I like and what I don't. I don't NEED an MMORPG in my life, and if this one doesn't shape up, I'll just happily go play Quake, Neverwinter Nights, or Planetside, or just play tabletop stuff with my friends at the game club.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
Nope, untrue, they originally were going to deny service to the whole server, then the public outcry made them change their mind, this is all documented on posts in these forums.
Sometimes punishing a group of people is more effective.
Say you are in school, and someone of your class pulls a prank with the teacher. The teacher punishes the whole class since he or she didn't know who did it.
Do you stand up and yell "hey, you are sooo not qualified for this job!!"
I don't think so.
Gm's and KK do what's needed, with the limited resources they have.
Unless you worked as a gm yourself for this game, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Originally posted by Forseti
Say you are in school, and someone of your class pulls a prank with the teacher. The teacher punishes the whole class since he or she didn't know who did it.
Do you stand up and yell "hey, you are sooo not qualified for this job!!"
I don't think so.
I know a few people who have shouted that among other things. :p
You could probably draw some link between teaching and GMing... but I have done neither so I won't. :rolleyes:
Actually, Forseti, yes, I do. Especially now that I'm at college again, and I'm paying for the classes. It makes zero difference to me whether or not the instructor is paid or not, but they better be competent.
IronMonkey
31-08-03, 01:03
I have worked as a GM but not for neocron, for another game with a more evil starting community than NC ever had. so i know exactly what the GM's in this game are going through. In fact i give the GM's and kk credit for not shutting down the community entirly, and locking the forum to full moderation for every post. which was what we did in the game i worked on.
Thats a little ignorant hive, but hey your opinion counts too (in reference to the "i dont care wethere theyre paid or not ":D )
Gms are trained, perhaps not highly or as highly as they should be, but time is a major factor there.
Anyway im staying out of these threads now, my post count hs rocketed today.
Greets,
Oath.
:angel:
i have been in school i have been on the receiving end of that treatment.
the class collectively stood up and left went to the headmaster and told him about it and that we wouldnt stand for it.
where i live stuff like that isnt used in schools and i know that several people bide by this tactic i get pissed off by it.
the whole make em fight each other by punishing em all isnt really my idea of brilliance or fairness.
Dont get me wrong tho i just dont get why they couldnt just do something like making a list of the unwanted persons and put them on ignore. no gm's for them then.
and then just help the rest ?
What's that gonna accomplish? Make it so that they'll only even hear exactly what they wanna hear?
By all means, if KK is tired of feedback from the community then do that. But if you ask for feedback, you gotta accept the good with the bad. And you have to accept that people get angry, and there's stupid people out there, and just winnow the wheat from the chaff.
i was talking about the people who verbally abuse a gm and such.
and i think it would be preferrable to no gm's at all.
but yea KK and mods do have a tendency to be quite selective already in what they want to hear.
Originally posted by hivemind
you gotta accept the good with the bad. And you have to accept that people get angry, and there's stupid people out there, and just winnow the wheat from the chaff.
Lol, nice analogy :D . I agree to some extent.
Oath.
Originally posted by Darkborg
i have never ever been pushed like that. and never seen it done and i have pushed many a conster in my days.
and i can tell u its damn difficult.
and impossible if you are on a bench.
AND if someone pushes IE a next guy into another zone where they can kill him allies/freinds might have a chance of doing something about it.
It is entirely possible. Rizzy has screenshots of him and some friends pushing someone from the back of medicare to the Diamond HQ in plaza 3, where they killed him. They could have rez killed but decided they had been nasty enough.
I think the fact that the event was unannounced is fine. However, the GMs present should have warped anyone getting rez killed to their apartment.
How is it ignorant Oath? What don't I know? I'm pretty sure I've got a pretty good handle on what the GMs do, and I think they should be paid, but them being unpaid doesn't excuse incompetence.
I don't feel it reflects on the GMs tho. It reflects on KK. It was their cheap-ass decision to have unpaid GMs.
We have a saying in the US: You get what you pay for.
And there's another one that's applicable as well: There's no such thing as a free lunch.
Originally posted by Darkborg
but yea KK and mods do have a tendency to be quite selective already in what they want to hear.
Arent we all?
If someone tells you that you suck, your an asshole, fuck off etc on a regular basis.
wouldnt you begin to do the same?
Oath.
Anyway this time no more posts. damit all to hell. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by hivemind
How is it ignorant Oath? What don't I know? I'm pretty sure I've got a pretty good handle on what the GMs do, and I think they should be paid, but them being unpaid doesn't excuse incompetence.
I don't feel it reflects on the GMs tho. It reflects on KK. It was their cheap-ass decision to have unpaid GMs.
We have a saying in the US: You get what you pay for.
And there's another one that's applicable as well: There's no such thing as a free lunch.
Rofl, i meant ignorant in not caring wether theyre paid or not, i already said i agree that they should be better trained and we have a saying here in scotland. "Write clearly and no one wil misunderstand you" something i clearly cant do lol.
And yeah it reflects on kk, outa curiosity, do the gm's get their Gaming account free for that? or are they really just unpaid 'charity workers'.
But no more posts from me, welcome to dm me in game hive, ill try to explain more clearly lol.
Oath.
IronMonkey
31-08-03, 01:18
hivemind because than you can allocate the whole forum to building and understand what a majority of the community wants. There are many benefits from full moderation.
First is you can get a grasp on EVERYTHING the players are saying much easier because a few gm's have to read every post. This allows u to easily determine who are the educated and willing to be creative posters who want to help build the game from the people who just flame in sake of flaming. It also allows for more rational debates. I am not saying you must edit out the this sucks for so and so reason posts but it allows u to get a better grasp on your community and it also calms the community down a bit. At first you get alot more flames for it but after a while people start to realize why it was done, and why it is beneficial. Than after a while you slowly loosen the moderation and players start to naturally, by reading the posts that were allowed to go through, post in a more constructive manner.
The route we are currently on KK has no clue what the community really thinks because 95% of it is mainly flames. Most people i know who enjoy the game. Won't even come to the forum because they geta ehadache reading all the trash spewed here.
this approach helped the game i worked on go from an almost failed project to a quite sucessful one in 6 months. Becvause 2 months of moderation helped the GM's and the dev team learn a real lot about the bestw ays to deal with the community and factor in fun vs reward and many many many other things.
No no, I get it Oath. And I agree, they should be paid. Right now they get a free game account.
The biggest problem I have with the current GMs is KKs tendency to recruit "nobodies" to be GMs. Most of the GMs, if you know who their characters are in-game, are either runners you've never heard of, or runners most of us would consider n00bs. (And that's not a dig, just an observation) It makes sense in one sense, because they won't have any real allegiances to other people in-game. On the other hand, it also means that the people who really know the nitty-gritty of the game aren't being utilized.
errr i was referring more to the mods here than thegm's
Oath.
Oath quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Darkborg
but yea KK and mods do have a tendency to be quite selective already in what they want to hear.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arent we all?
If someone tells you that you suck, your an asshole, fuck off etc on a regular basis.
wouldnt you begin to do the same?
Oath.
yes i would and hence my suggestion but they still need to be open to hear people talk negatively about stuff in game and on the forums, if they dont the customer base isnt going to stick around. they dont need to take bs but they still need to bear criticism
You might have a point Iron Monkey. I'm always in favor of a drastic change when something's extremely bad.
But the fact is that people are hopping mad about a lot of problems, and they need a place where they think they'll be heard. The first time someone comes here with a rant because their character was deleted during maintenance, or because Stephan Bast offered them 100k as compensation for losing their rare gun to a bug, and their post doesn't make it past a moderator because it's not "constructive criticism", well...
I betcha that's $10 gone for ReaKKtor. :(
IronMonkey
31-08-03, 01:28
the thing is hivemind. In the fully moderated forum. It is guarenteed that KK will read his post.
Or all 1000 of posts just like his/hers. Than they get a better grasp on where the attention REALLY needs to be focused.
Why is that? The moderators are just as unpaid and just as volunteer as the GMs. They're even more of KKs bitches than the GMs, man they get worked like dogs. I wouldn't moderate these forums for NOTHIN', and I'm glad nothing ever came of the GM application I sent Moon Unit way back in March, 'cause that job's a thankless time-sucker too...
What I'm saying is that I don't think either the GMs OR the mods have any kind of direct line to KK.
dammit, i cant go to sleep while your all still posting lol. this should be my last lest i am smote down by martin himself.
Of course they need to be open to critiscism (my brain is already asleep), but theres only so much crit.......(fuk it) that you can have before you get stressed out and start fucking up.
@ hive, its true that they do recruit noobs as gms, dunno why though, id like to be a gm, but im to short temperd, someon told me to fuck off and eat my babies i'd god mode in plaza one and own the server lol. but hey, if you guys wanna make me a gm then hey, i wont complain, for a free game account ill be your bitch for a while........that and broadand lol. but perhaps recruiting more experienced players as Gms is A solution, but remember that these gms are not normally allowed to stay on there gaming server, i think foucault was from pluto? and he gmd on uranus. but i say BRING BACK SHAPESHIFTER!111111111oenoenoenon he was a gm to be respected.
Oath.
Goodnight all, im a little fookedm laters.
I never understand why people go AFK in the first place.
Soul Light, Faction Sympathy, and Synaptic Impairment are three reasons to go AFK. I admit, it's not the wisest thing to do this outside of one's apartment, but Plaza 1 is a safezone.
You do realize the players can push you to a new zone and do the same thing don't you?
Not, as many have pointed out, when you are seated.
I presume now that we've pointed this out, KK will remove/render unusable all the benches and chairs in the game with the next patch.
IronMonkey
31-08-03, 01:38
Originally posted by hivemind
Why is that? The moderators are just as unpaid and just as volunteer as the GMs. They're even more of KKs bitches than the GMs, man they get worked like dogs. I wouldn't moderate these forums for NOTHIN', and I'm glad nothing ever came of the GM application I sent Moon Unit way back in March, 'cause that job's a thankless time-sucker too...
What I'm saying is that I don't think either the GMs OR the mods have any kind of direct line to KK.
Because thats how a fully moderated forum would work lol. Thats the point of doing it. So that the devs get shown everythign directly. It's part of the reason you fully moderate. so that you can go through and isolate all the issues and they get shown to the dev's. It also allows for you to setup the forum in amanner which is more suitable to each individual different playstyle.
For instance the class based forum etc etc.
Also the flame for the fook of flaming posters stop posting because they know it wont get through anyways. Or they start to be more constructive. Regardless the full moderation technique works wonders if it is implemnted properlly. It sucks for the community at first because they feel they arent being heard. But trust me it just makes u be heard more clearly. It also allows the support guys more freedom in setting up a better working forum mechanic system. They can post threads conmtainign ideas and concepts and not have the threadf have to be closed because of a million flames.
It also stops such childish behavior such as spamming in someones thread 100 pictures of ninjas and whining about teh ninja whatever. Things like this are very detrimental to the community. How people can do stuff like this and not be insta banned is beyond my understanding.
Originally posted by IceStorm
I presume now that we've pointed this out, KK will remove/render unusable all the benches and chairs in the game with the next patch.
This is exactly my point. By allowing players to do this type of lame tactic as pushign afk people into a kill zone so u can rob all his stuff. It makes the community think this is acceptable behavior and that it is supported by KK.
The full no holds barred griefers welcome here atmosphere is driven by allowing stupid things such as this. By the way which is killign this community faster than any bad gm ever could.
Originally posted by hivemind
What I'm saying is that I don't think either the GMs OR the mods have any kind of direct line to KK.
We use icq and irc to communicate with KK.
I for one talk to Odin daily, and once in a while with Snowcrash, Thanny or DaFire.
Same goes for GM's, they are in contact with Snow whenever he is online.
I would hope that, as GMs, you are all strong enough to point out past mistakes to KK and stop them from implementing them a second or third time.
I believe that it would be significant to the playerbase if you'd stop KK from putting on another server-crashing event or another mass killing event in a safezone.
There are very few GMs relative to players. If KK won't listen to its trusted players, then what's the point? Then again, if the trusted players (GMs) won't listen to the outcry from the unwashed masses, what's the point?
"Soul Light, Faction Sympathy, and Synaptic Impairment are three reasons to go AFK. I admit, it's not the wisest thing to do this outside of one's apartment, but Plaza 1 is a safezone."
You mean you don't watch the bar every second that your SI is dropping? Shocking.
Another reason to be afk off and on is when you are shopping. With the low population on the servers you often don't get much chatter on the chat lines and after broadcasting what it is I am looking for I tend to wander off for a sandwich and check back in 5 minutes to see if anyone responded. No one usually has so I use the other computer to check email and read some websites while I wait a while to see if anyone will turn up with what I am looking for.
KK and the GMs in NC are VERY forgiving and leave people with the freedom to as they please (within reason) most of the time, just look at the forums. ALL other MMOs I've played have very tight controls on their community and what is said in their forums etc. I've played some that would ban you just for saying something like "fuck" or bitching about their game. And getting a GM to talk casually, ingame or out, would never happen.
The problem is a few people abuse this and everyone suffers.
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
No matter what Reakktor do they get bitched at.
"We want events!"
*Given an event*
"That vent sucked! You sux KK! We want content!"
*Given content*
"That content sux KK! You sux! Give us events!"
And so on....
lol
So true.
Originally posted by Mantus
Here are the dots.
point a) Griefers cause the problems ingame
point b) the GMs are denying service because of the griefers.
point c) griefers are reponsible for the lack of GM support.
point d) your anger should be pointed towards the griefers.
Hit the nail on the head.
Only problem is the greifers are generally the people all the n00bs aspire to be.
The behavior is passed along down the chain.
If the best event that they can come up with is slaughtering defenseless characters in a zone where they characters cannot even draw a weapon, perhaps the game is better off without events.
I'd have to judge that the creativity and thought that went into that event was about zero. There was no possible participation or interaction for the characters except to fall down dead or loot a body. This is hardly the pinnacle of brilliant thinking.
It really goes to show how low standards can fall in a game or a community when this sort of thing is viewed as a cool event.
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:25
Originally posted by Alex Mars
If the best event that they can come up with is slaughtering defenseless characters in a zone where they characters cannot even draw a weapon, perhaps the game is better off without events.
I'd have to judge that the creativity and thought that went into that event was about zero. There was no possible participation or interaction for the characters except to fall down dead or loot a body. This is hardly the pinnacle of brilliant thinking.
It really goes to show how low standards can fall in a game or a community when this sort of thing is viewed as a cool event.
Hmm, funny you should say that because a lot of people who bitched about the Event were:
1.) People who killed lower ranked people than themselves (Effectively the same as someone "defenseless" being attacked).
2.) Frequently used the "its a cyberpunk erwld! suppoed to be dangerous11" excuse to justify newbie/lowbie ganking.
3.) Were the people most eager for the North/South divide to come into effect.
Sooner or later the anti-CityAdmin would be pushed out of the city, it was common knowledge by then.
I guess I'll repeat myself again:
Slaughter some innocent newbs - perfectly acceptable. It's a harsh world, and it's not as if dying once is going to make them quit the game.
Allow AFKers to get rez killed - unnaceptable. It's perfectly within the power of the GMs at the event to warp those AFKers being rez killed to their apps to limit the damage. But that's the only issue with this event.
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 20:31
AS much as it pains me to say this, I partially agree with Helen. Alot of the people often use "omg it's a harsh world noob, ADAPT" , so um well why are they complaining? LOL
The only problems I saw with this even were 2 things
1.It was in a safe zone, so the players couldn't draw weapons. That's a bit lame.
2.IIRC, Elite Stormbots dropped in p1, yet TG guards were the "enemies" in the second event? Um Elite Stormbot=5 TG guards LOL
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:32
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
1.It was in a safe zone, so the players couldn't draw weapons. That's a bit lame.
How's it any different from lowbie ganking though?
Sure the lowbie could draw a weapon and fight back but what good would it do?
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 20:36
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
How's it any different from lowbie ganking though?
Sure the lowbie could draw a weapon and fight back but what good would it do?
Well since the GMs were making the event, their should have been a fighting chance, there was NONE. The gms(obviously) should have more sense than the lame newbie ganking PKers(not that all of them do that).
Whiety Bulger
31-08-03, 20:38
I think they need "Seers" like in UO GM's for story and support should be different. And I understanfd it now a patch is needed to change zone status or warzone safe. I about the engine mechenics that much but could u just implement a switch orr somen??? And also KK don't be afriad to ask us community memebrs ahead of time to help you with events most would be help even some l337 d00dz0rs.
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:38
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
Well since the GMs were making the event, their should have been a fighting chance, there was NONE. The gms(obviously) should have more sense than the lame newbie ganking PKers(not that all of them do that).
So how would a "fighting chance" been given without having to patch the game?
"Sooner or later the anti-CityAdmin would be pushed out of the city, it was common knowledge by then."
That is a very dishonest statement, it was not "sooner or later", it is stated explicitly that they will have to leave the city when DoY is released and online. I find it amazing how people lie and twist this fact.
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
So how would a "fighting chance" been given without having to patch the game?
Do it in a different sector? Clean out PP instead?
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:41
Originally posted by HellHound
Do it in a different sector? Clean out PP instead?
Oh please.
The people who were targeted there would have just run into the Plaza anyway once the found they would be "Owned".
Yes, it's a generalisation but I've seen enough to make such a thing.
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 20:43
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:43
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
....and another one fails to live up to their "promise".
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 20:47
what i have 'promised':
nothing to you.
let me elaborate.
[ edited - keep it up ]
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:48
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
what i have 'promised':
To put me on ignore.
^.~
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]...although that really isn't saying much when you think about it.
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 20:50
find me where i promised to never talk to you again and/or read your posts and i will leave this board
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 20:51
[ edited - keep it up ] [/B][/QUOTE]
oh i fucking will keep it up
now kiss and make out.
or just back to topic.
Originally posted by Forseti
Sometimes punishing a group of people is more effective.
Say you are in school, and someone of your class pulls a prank with the teacher. The teacher punishes the whole class since he or she didn't know who did it.
Do you stand up and yell "hey, you are sooo not qualified for this job!!"
I don't think so.
Gm's and KK do what's needed, with the limited resources they have.
Unless you worked as a gm yourself for this game, you have no idea what you are talking about.
you ever tried that at work? you'd get fucking lynched.
small reality check - most people who play this game aren't 13 and don't act like 13 year olds
the minority who do will respond to that sort of treatment
the rest who aren't will assume KK is running this game with a schoolyard mentality...
There is a tragic, inescapable and inexcusable fact: Neocron's storyline is pretty much dead, there are no compelling events, if KK tried to enforce a rigid storyline the chances are it wouldn't be anymore than a distraction. You can't (or would have huge difficulty) implement a dynamic storyline as some genius figured 4 separate servers would be a smart way to go...
I don't blame the GMs for this and to be honest I think the situation is too dire to worry about blaming people.
In the past 9 months there has been no coherent storyline, therefore in the vacuum each server has evolved its own politcal layouts. If KK attempted to enforce a rigid scripted story it would be too late: you can't simply portray TG as "freedom fighters" anymore... you can't portray City Mercs as "Neutral Mercenaries" anymore. Without any real structure or even the tiniest bit of direction from KK the players have made their own game world. Maybe thats not such a bad thing, but it does make a mockery of the "faction" concept.
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:52
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
find me where i promised to never talk to you again and/or read your posts and i will leave this board
In reply to something about an ignore link:
OMG thank you!!!!
While you had the "ignore" running:
Helen Angilley
31-08-03 19:33 This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]
OMG HOW AMAZING IS THIS?????????????
Both suggest you had me on ignore. ;)
Both said here: http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73723&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
You two put your handbags away.
N
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 20:53
'suggested'
next!
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 20:59
Originally posted by Nidhogg
You two put your handbags away.
N
verbal assult! VERBAL ASSULT! BAN BAN BAN!
Sometimes punishing a group of people is more effective.
Say you are in school, and someone of your class pulls a prank with the teacher. The teacher punishes the whole class since he or she didn't know who did it.
Do you stand up and yell "hey, you are sooo not qualified for this job!!"
I don't think so.
Gm's and KK do what's needed, with the limited resources they have.
Unless you worked as a gm yourself for this game, you have no idea what you are talking about
This so illustrates what is wrong with the game and the people behind it. You don't treat paying customers this way unless you want them to think you are unprofessional and incompetent.
Even trying to compare this to a schoolroom situation indicates a severely distorted and unrealistic perception of the situation. The fact that a lead mod equates paying customers to misbehaving children really indicates severe burnout and a need for a new job. The statements quoted above are really offensive and ignorant.
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 21:13
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
So how would a "fighting chance" been given without having to patch the game?
Don't do it in a safezone then lol. THey could have, um I dunno, maybe "start" the pushing out of anti-city scum in pp. You know sort of starting with the dirtiest part of the city first.
Originally posted by Rith
In the past 9 months there has been no coherent storyline, therefore in the vacuum each server has evolved its own politcal layouts. If KK attempted to enforce a rigid scripted story it would be too late: you can't simply portray TG as "freedom fighters" anymore... you can't portray City Mercs as "Neutral Mercenaries" anymore. Without any real structure or even the tiniest bit of direction from KK the players have made their own game world. Maybe thats not such a bad thing, but it does make a mockery of the "faction" concept.
I agree.
Originally posted by Odin
I never understand why people go AFK in the first place. You do realize the players can push you to a new zone and do the same thing don't you?
yeah, but if u sit down...u cant be pushed....but if u spawn stuff that can kill the sitting ppl....
get it? =)
Simple solution to the rezz-killing shit that went on.......dont allow ANY ppu spells, baring boosters and maybe heals to be used in safe zones.
Also ban hack-tools in safe zones ergo preventing rezzkiling in safe zones.:D
Oath.
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 21:24
Y'know, all it tok "Clitoris" was a simple stike of the ESC key or ALT+F4.
He had nothing to wait on, nothing to do...he just left the game running [ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming, trolling ]
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 21:28
Originally posted by Alex Mars
[ edited ]
[ edited for violation of the forum rules ]
I don't condone "rez-killing" but you should be prepared for any consequences if you go AFK.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 21:37
Originally posted by Alex Mars
[ edited ]
"Clitoris" could have been pushed into another area and had the same done to him.
:rolleyes:
Hardly a "dishonest" distortion. It was never said that the anti-CityAdmin Factions were finalised.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules ]
Originally posted by Alex Mars
[ edited ]
Dark Side
Next Turning >
:lol:
[ edited ]
Nope, just a moderate who enjoys the game but is not blind to its many faults. [ edited for violation of the forum rules - I can see this thread getting closed before very much longer ]
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 21:44
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex Mars
[B]Nope, just a moderate who enjoys the game but is not blind to its many faults. [ edited ]
Hmm?
Love, I've often criticised Neocron, I've tempoarily cancelled my account so I can devote more time to EVE and EverQuest (Although I'll be back, obviously) for crying out loud.
[ edited for violation of the forum rules ]
IronMonkey
31-08-03, 21:47
I'm not just a moaner helen. And i agree that allowing rezz killing of afk people is the most pathetic thing i ahve ever seena ny devloper do. I also agree that allowing afk people to be pushed into a zone and than be rezz killed a few times so they too loose all their inventory is another one of the worst decisions in mmorpg history.
Like I have stated on numerous occasions there are many reasons why the population is so low. Only one being CDV.
helen
something im afraid of logging out...i might not be able to log in....why?
because of all the errors and lag that is in the game, since the last few patches...
(watches mods close thread for me mentioning the game having lots of sync problems)
Originally posted by RuButt
something im afraid of logging out...i might not be able to log in....why?
You can still find yourself synching for going afk in plaza, not that I think people shouldn't do it but bad shit can happen no matter what. :rolleyes:
IronMonkey
31-08-03, 22:02
whats worse is while your stuck syncing and someone decides to push you into pp and rezz kill your ass repeatdly until you loose all your stuff
Its reasons like this why KK should not allow rezzkilling and or puishing people 'afk' or 'syncing' into hostile zones where they can be killed.
Originally posted by Oath
Also ban hack-tools in safe zones ergo preventing rezzkiling in safe zones.:D
Oath.
That is a great idea, I personally know 2 different tanks that have lost all their shitz beaming into the plaza after taking a soullight hit from a vendor or something stupid like that. Very simple mistakes (not logging in for a couple days and forgetting about SL) can cost you big time in the current state.
It would be also good to block access to unsafe genreps for people with bad soullight.
DJ
Funny how there's a load of suggestions to completely ban all ppu spells in safezones, then finally someone suggests a workable solution to simply ban hacktools.
Originally posted by Scikar
Funny how there's a load of suggestions to completely ban all ppu spells in safezones, then finally someone suggests a workable solution to simply ban hacktools.
Not that funny, sometimes you have to sort through a lot of ideas until the most effective one is found.
Sinead O'Connor
31-08-03, 22:32
Originally posted by Alex Mars
After the "event" yesterday and the attempt a few weeks ago to deny ingame support to the whole Saturn server over the actions of a few griefers, a reasonable person has to ask if the GMs are qualified to do their jobs?
no.
Are they actually hurting the game by driving away paying customers? It sure looks like it.
yes.
...the unprofessional behaviour of the ingame GMs.
amen.
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 22:32
rezz killing is fun
so is pushing people over zones and killing then
keep it ingame, dont remove that sorta stuff!
Originally posted by Alex Mars
Not that funny, sometimes you have to sort through a lot of ideas until the most effective one is found.
I was referring to the fact that it's considerably simpler than the some of the ideas suggested. Often you find the simple ideas are at the start of the thread, and they increase in complexity as you read on.
@Sinead O'Connor: Tell you what, let's remove all the GM positions completely, clearly nobody is going to be able to do any kind of a good job on this so what's the point?
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 23:32
Um, what I dont' understand is this, if your'e gonna be afk for a good long while why not go to a safe spot? Like the back of medicare in a seat? or your apt?
I mean it takes a looooong time to push someone into pp to kill them.
IronMonkey
31-08-03, 23:33
what i dont get is why have this feature at all?
Everyone talks about afk, but noone talks about those players that are getting stuck in syncs can have the same thing done to them.
Originally posted by IronMonkey
what i dont get is why have this feature at all?
Everyone talks about afk, but noone talks about those players that are getting stuck in syncs can have the same thing done to them.
If you're stuck in sync, how is anyone going to push you into another zone, which you have to sync into? :confused:
When you zone anywhere you become invulnerable anyway.
IronMonkey
01-09-03, 04:58
Originally posted by Scikar
If you're stuck in sync, how is anyone going to push you into another zone, which you have to sync into? :confused:
When you zone anywhere you become invulnerable anyway.
this is incorrect
When you have the syncing emssage but cant move u can talk to people and u can be killed.
As i so galantly displayed at the next vehicle event when everyone got stuck in sync and either terminated themselevs or were killd by other runners, so i had my clanmate push me over o the event coordinator so i could ask him to telelport me so i wouldnt loose my inventory liek soem of the others who were stcuk in sync did when they died/terminated self.
U register to the server as 50 health and 0 skills stats.
Shadow Dancer
01-09-03, 08:30
That is so rare, how often do you synch like that in the middle of a zone? Besides you can relog or just log off.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
The fact that a lead mod equates paying customers to misbehaving children really indicates severe burnout and a need for a new job. The statements quoted above are really offensive and ignorant.
And this community doesn't act like a bunch of kids sometimes? With the ammount of "OMG HAX", "+1" , or the "l33t sp34ch" replies we see each day.
Even adults can act childish, and there is notting wrong with that. Hell, I'm 20 and I can still be a little kid sometimes.
forseti you could argue though that we are paying for a service and any community extras you provide.
if the forum community decide to be cunts then basically theyre paying for that privlidge not to be told how to behave.
yes there are rules that need to be applied however theres just moderation and "over" moderation thats all. trick is finding the balance.
Over moderation? My comment was meant as a lighthearted way of asking two people to stop arguing so the thread could continue. A few months ago I would have just closed it, so which of the two actions would you say is over moderation? Do I have to write smileys every time I smile in RL?
N
Originally posted by hinch
forseti you could argue though that we are paying for a service and any community extras you provide.
if the forum community decide to be cunts then basically theyre paying for that privlidge not to be told how to behave.
yes there are rules that need to be applied however theres just moderation and "over" moderation thats all. trick is finding the balance.
Because you are paying to play a game, you can act like a cunt on this forum which is moderated by volunteers? I don't think so. :)
The fact that you people are allowed to have a forum like this is an extra you get from KK, it's not a privilegde because you are a paying customer.
This means I won't make any difference between a paying customer, or some new guy who just wants to ask some questions on the newbie forum. To me, you are forum users, notting more, notting less.
Originally posted by Forseti
Because you are paying to play a game, you can act like a cunt on this forum which is moderated by volunteers? I don't think so. :)
The fact that you people are allowed to have a forum like this is an extra you get from KK, it's not a privilegde because you are a paying customer.
i never said the forums were a privlidge i know how this works remember ive worked in this industry for alot longer than you (you were about 10 when i started) but then again at this point you begin to reach well
a) forum is a bonus not part of the package you pay for
b) moderated by voulenteers
these 2 things now have serious of conflicts of interest and bias and basic dislike to users can occur. simple people behavour really not avoidable just happens over time. i wasnt having a poke at any of you i was just stating.
ofc this now raises the question of the forums are an "added extra" then why do they infact need to be policed by anyone related or indeed regulated by KK as they arent a paid service. They arent even hosted by KK. Now you see the waters getting more and more muddy.
then ofc if your being really fussy you hit the point where you have tax issues these being called "official" product hense agreeing association. we are paying KK and they arent paying you hense your classed as a tax benefit against them as your actaully working for them for free. now that last part would be hard to hold up on a legal grounds but in comparison its like you going and working at a shop in your nearest town center for nothing.
as little as people seem to accept it theres more far reaching consequences for hosting/running forums than is currently recognised by both companies and users as regulation within the internet becomes more widespread theres certain issues that will come into play.
Cryotchekk
01-09-03, 13:51
ownd.
I found it amusing that MORE anti-city faction players came to plaza 1 AFTER they heard the warnings on OOC, and then proceded to whine that they got killed and their belt hacked.
If you were killed while AFK, its your own fault for going AFK and staying online (your even dumber doing it in an enemy owned zone), no one says you cant just press esc or alt-f4 as you go AFK.
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