View Full Version : No need to Nerf PPU's
There have been a lot of threads recently saying that PPU's need to be nerfed.
To those peeps, you just need one thing.... Holy Anti Buff and a lvl 110 PSI APU (OK, that's 2 things...)
Last night, I got my Holy Anti Buff - I have never seen PPU's drop so fast - you could almost smell the panic as they try to get their sheilds back up while healing :D
So please, no more crying nerf :)
rofl....
To take out a PPU you need a APU :rolleyes:
hm.... :rolleyes:
/over and out :D
Syntax-Error
29-08-03, 16:13
Hey try throwing a zonepoint into all that and suddenly the PPU is still just as immortal.
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 16:31
They seriously need to increase apu mana or lower the damn mana cost on those anti-spells.
268? My apu has 274. And his base psi is 98. Lame.
i've watched a ppu stand there, let me antubuff them while being shot only to recast shelter, deflector and heal in a matter of secconds
Edit: lol shadow we probs have the exact same setup, i have 275 mana i think tho, but i also have 98 base psi, 180 apu and 87 mst, no DS tho :(
If you killed a ppu as a solo apu then my hats off to you. I usually do it with a tank.
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 16:37
Originally posted by OpTi
i've watched a ppu stand there, let me antubuff them while being shot only to recast shelter, deflector and heal in a matter of secconds
Edit: lol shadow we probs have the exact same setup, i have 275 mana i think tho, but i also have 98 base psi, 180 apu and 87 mst, no DS tho :(
yea that's pretty lame. KK needs to increase mana points from PPW or PSU.
I mean jeez, I seriously lost count of the number of times a ppu would have died had I 60-70 more mana.
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
yea that's pretty lame. KK needs to increase mana points from PPW or PSU.
I mean jeez, I seriously lost count of the number of times a ppu would have died had I 60-70 more mana.
yeah or make psiboosters raise faster it gets frustrating when pounding on someone only to have your mana run out even if you poped a psibooster early on wasting mana that the booster could have replaced but you needed to be able to get off more shots because you KNOW that person is gonna run off and get a nice holy heal from the nearest ppu
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 16:44
Originally posted by OpTi
yeah or make psiboosters raise faster it gets frustrating when pounding on someone only to have your mana run out even if you poped a psibooster early on wasting mana that the booster could have replaced but you needed to be able to get off more shots because you KNOW that person is gonna run off and get a nice holy heal from the nearest ppu
omfg, exactly. I couldn't have worded it better. :lol:
Originally posted by Syntax-Error
Hey try throwing a zonepoint into all that and suddenly the PPU is still just as immortal.
Depends on the zone point. If it is PP1 then just whack them with loads of poison and watch the panic as they realise they should of bought drugs as the antidote spell doesn't work in a safe zone (got caught out by that myself as well as a few others).
Anyway, what are they going to do? zone back in? then you anti-buff again.
Originally posted by Parappa
If you killed a ppu as a solo apu then my hats off to you. I usually do it with a tank.
Did it on my 2nd try last night. Buffed PPU stands still thinking he/she is safe. I hit Holy AntiBuff and immediately hit a PSI booster. A few Fire Apoc's later, and the PPU is down.
Don't forget, Holy Anti Buff removes Shelter, Deflector & Heal - and there is no way they can get buffs back up in time before they die - and it doesn't cost too much in mana - I think it is 158 because it is the rare :)
Edit ---------------
I lie, costs 260 mana :D
Originally posted by OpTi
i've watched a ppu stand there, let me antubuff them while being shot only to recast shelter, deflector and heal in a matter of secconds
Edit: lol shadow we probs have the exact same setup, i have 275 mana i think tho, but i also have 98 base psi, 180 apu and 87 mst, no DS tho :(
i'll quote myself, yes i hit booster the seccond i hit antibuff, and i have tried both FA and HL, Both capped in RoF they got those shields before they hit half health
Edit: HL at 610% unbuffed, capped rof :: FA 595% unbuffed, capped rof :: holyantibuff 19/min unbuffed, all spells are fully capped dmg/rof with psi3. Antibuff generaly works if A) they don't have very good rof on thier spells B) bad resist setup or C) you catch them off guard which lets face it the good PPU's are rarely EVER not keeping close tabs on thier buffs
My ppu can get shelter up tho in a few seconds which slows fire apoc enough to cast heal and finally re deflect... i know becuase my ppu supports optis apu :p
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 17:07
A "good" ppu won't die 1v1 to anyone.
This still stinks of being just a highly advanced form of "Rock/Paper/Scissors". If I don't have my Rock APU to hand when I come up against your Scissors, PPU, I might as well just give up and go home. Frankly the whole "I need X to deal with Y" formula is seriously begining to piss me off. Improvisation counts for jack all, Specialization is everything.
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 17:13
Originally posted by Smugly
This still stinks of being just a highly advanced form of "Rock/Paper/Scissors". If I don't have my Rock APU to hand when I come up against your Scissors, PPU, I might as well just give up and go home. Frankly the whole "I need X to deal with Y" formula is seriously begining to piss me off. Improvisation counts for jack all, Specialization is everything.
You're correct, read my sig link. :p
IMO melee tanks should pierce shields and spies should get a technological form of "antibuff".
antibuff is not a surefire way of killing a ppu, it helps but to a good ppu it will only distract them, but sometimes thats enough to get his team down and the you can finish up by concentrating on the ppu themself, no ppu can keepup being under constant attack forever. I have a ppu myself, i might only be somethign like 84 base psi but i can take a good beating, seccond i see that big ball of light pointing in my direction in outta there like a flash. You gotta force a ppu to make a mistake it only takes one and even the best will always make a mistake somewhere.
Originally posted by OpTi
seccond i see that big ball of light pointing in my direction in outta there like a flash.
One thing I alway do is make sure I come up on the PPU from behind. I then cast about 4-5 Poison Beams and then antibuff - I would hope that the Poison showing up on the right may make them miss the fact that sheilds have dropped just long enough for us to get that edge.
Worked so far :D
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 17:27
Originally posted by GT_Rince
I then cast about 4-5 Poison Beams and then antibuff
How much psi energy do you have?
Spy<VS>Spy
29-08-03, 17:29
well rince, i'm going to stand before you and say, your right! there is absolutely no need to nerf the PPU monk.
there is however, a need to boost the APU monk, and a few other things. you want to know the REASON why the passive is thought to be nerfed. its pretty obvoius when you think about it, all you have to do is compare them with their counter part the APU...
Now check this, a PPU's holy shelter shield, takes like what...errr, around 67 mana and...oh lets be genrous, 3 seconds to cast. a tl 95 spell.
compare this to the counters, like the prefered holy anti buff. which takes about 5-6 to cast, about 360 mana!!!
just run down the list here, the PPU's spells are faster, stronger AND more efficaint then everyway an APU can hope to be. a good PPU can easily keep an APU busy. because the only way to shock a monk is to have anouther PPU monk handy cause every other freeze in the game blows. a fully mobile monk is a bitch to kill. even if you are managing to throw an anti buff on him....providing an APU can run cast that...which, to my knowledge...you cant.
how is it fair to even require an APU to kill a PPU in the first place. (we at legion prefere to just freeze the shit out of them and throw a baby heal on em, underhanded yes but the fuckers wont leave the fight like good monks, they will stand there for 30 minutes harassing a team of 8 or 10 people without fear.
no other class in the game requires ANYTHING specail to die, tanks die, PE's die, spy's die...you can kill them very easily if you have half a brain with any other class. but the PPU monk, its not that the monk is just better...you just cant do ANY damage by yourself. or two people...3, mmm, maybe...4 possible. 5 is more likely if you got your shit together.
maybe the PPU monk is fine, but their counterpart is not fine. PPU's have to understand, they have to be limited to such, THEY support their team...when their team mates are DEAD...the white mage gets the fuck off the field. he has FAILED his duty, to keep his mates alive, this running around like a mountain goat in heat for an hour in a middle of a fight has got to stop. we are getting good practice at elliminating teams with the PPU monks because they are only concerned with keeping themselves alive, and once we get them alone, they get pig pilled on. and we'll use every trick in the book my friend to lay them flat.
if anything, perhaps the PPU should be boosted in some way, make PSI shield better, commiting your mana use to keeping yourself alive, but if you spare energy to cast to help or hinder your enemy's you risk getting killed. checks and balances. atm, the PPU is on top because their check, is not in anyway balanced.
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 17:37
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
Now check this, a PPU's holy shelter shield, takes like what...errr, around 67 mana and...oh lets be genrous, 3 seconds to cast. a tl 95 spell.
compare this to the counters, like the prefered holy anti buff. which takes about 5-6 to cast, about 360 mana!!!
heh some corrections. I think shelter caps at 52 rof. I could be wrong. HOLY antibuff takes 268 mana, however your average apu has about 280 mana. :rolleyes: And it caps at 3 seconds fastest.
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
just run down the list here, the PPU's spells are faster, stronger AND more efficaint then everyway an APU can hope to be. a good PPU can easily keep an APU busy. because the only way to shock a monk is to have anouther PPU monk handy cause every other freeze in the game blows. a fully mobile monk is a bitch to kill. even if you are managing to throw an anti buff on him....providing an APU can run cast that...which, to my knowledge...you cant.
Totally agree.
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
how is it fair to even require an APU to kill a PPU in the first place. (we at legion prefere to just freeze the shit out of them and throw a baby heal on em, underhanded yes but the fuckers wont leave the fight like good monks, they will stand there for 30 minutes harassing a team of 8 or 10 people without fear.
Not really underhanded. You're right, alot of ppus will stay having 5 million people shoot them and continue to try and res their comrade.
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
maybe the PPU monk is fine, but their counterpart is not fine. PPU's have to understand, they have to be limited to such, THEY support their team...when their team mates are DEAD...the white mage gets the fuck off the field. he has FAILED his duty, to keep his mates alive, this running around like a mountain goat in heat for an hour in a middle of a fight has got to stop. we are getting good practice at elliminating teams with the PPU monks because they are only concerned with keeping themselves alive, and once we get them alone, they get pig pilled on. and we'll use every trick in the book my friend to lay them flat.
omg I agree. Jesus spy I don't think i've ever disagreed with you. I can't believe you're the leader of Legion. :D
Originally posted by Spy<VS>Spy
atm, the PPU is on top because their check, is not in anyway balanced.
I agree again!
ppu's spell for just about stopping anyone killing them 'holy paralysis - bout 30mana and rapid fire'
apu's spell to kill a ppu 'holy antibuff - bout 260mana and slow as fucking shit'
Does anyone else see the 'UNBALANCE' there....:rolleyes:
FFS PPU'S DO NEED TO BE NERFED IN SOME WAY.....HELL IF IT WAS MY CHOICE NO PPU SPELL BAR RESIST SPELLS WOULD BE CASTABLE ON ANY OTHER PERSON, FUCK HIGH LVL MOBS, THE PPL COMPLAINING ARE CAPPED AND DONT HUNT THE DAMN FUCKING THINGS AND ANYWAY, HIGH LVL MOBS AINT HARD TO KILL ON UR OWN!!!!111111
you really have no clue at all do you?
ppu`s are fine its the apu`s that need the boost
and if you even dare say a tank cant hurt a ppu your clearly talking bollcks
i got my first speed gun last night on my pluto tank
i opened fire on a ppu even with him healing fully deflectored etc and a heal sanctum running by the time i`d finished teh first clip they were on half hp.
alig i suggest you leave before you get seriously abused
They need to add anti ppu measures to all sides of the pond, instead of making it always a 1 class req, anti shelter cannons/rifles/pistols?? that have like real slow fire rates.
atm most anti monk measures are given to monks.... o_O
Originally posted by Shadow Dancer
How much psi energy do you have?
About 330-340. Enough to cast a few poison barrels, wait a couple of seconds and mana back to full - cast holy anti buff and the 3-4 seconds that takes to cast, I have already hit a booster and then I am ready to hit them with fire.
I have also noticed that keep poison stacked on a PPU for when his sheilds go down, hurts like hell for him - every little bit helps :)
@Spy...
Very good posints m8y - I get really wound up that the last person standing at a battle is normally the PPU - and the ones we sometimes encounter do the same - just run around...
I came across a city clanned PPU in TG a few days ago - I was on my Libby PE - I may as well have been pissing on him for the damage I was doing ... He was taking the piss a little by asking me about my ping and shit like that - unrelated story that I found amusing at the time :D
Originally posted by hinch
you really have no clue at all do you?
ppu`s are fine its the apu`s that need the boost
and if you even dare say a tank cant hurt a ppu your clearly talking bollcks
i got my first speed gun last night on my pluto tank
i opened fire on a ppu even with him healing fully deflectored etc and a heal sanctum running by the time i`d finished teh first clip they were on half hp.
alig i suggest you leave before you get seriously abused
u really dont like me so stfu.....im entitled to say wot i want to say without some dip shit fucking prick trying to throw it back in my face
Abused of who? u? :lol: try
i never mentioned a fucking tank u thick fuck.....and NO apu's dont need the boost, ppu's need the nerf >.<
okok 'tanks cant hurt ppu's' there, happy, ur the one talking utter bullshit :rolleyes: ive seen ur pluto tank, he aint even high rank ffs! how low rank was the ppu? me and my bro both with 4 slot speed guns both capped tanks couldnt out damage -Neithzhe- (or however u spell his name) so NO hinch, ur talking fucking bullshit, not me.
Plz by all means tell me how an apu needs a boost, as if they dont hit hard enuf as they are atm? duh! and dont try tell me 'yea yea well ive got a apu' cuz i have and i know THEY ARE OVERPOWERED same as a ppu is as my bro has a CAPPED ONE too so i can quite easy check both sides to a monk with just 2 accounts.....
the ppu was vampire222 if you really must know then crypto later on
both very well capped ta and i know my tank isnt high lvl the discussion wasnt about the tanks it was about you claiming ppu`s are unkilliable and need a nerf which is utter bollocks.
anti spells need lowering to about 100 mana cost and cast speeds doubled then everyones happy. appart from you who wont be happy till monks are deleted totally :rolleyes: go sit in a corner with kin and fiddle with your bits
I am no where near capped and FA doesn't do much cause i wear a fire belt. ANd i have haz 3 casted usually. antibuff is a good spell, but like its been pointed out numerous times, a ppu with high cast per minute times will have all those back up before you can even cast a second spell.
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 18:26
Originally posted by GT_Rince
About 330-340.
?
What's your apu? If you don't mind me asking.
Agreed. Holy antibuff is a ppu killer, even if the ppu gets his shelter up in time to save his life...if theres a tank with you his gat will surely finish the ppu off before the deflector gets up.
Originally posted by hinch
the ppu was vampire222 if you really must know then crypto later on
both very well capped ta and i know my tank isnt high lvl the discussion wasnt about the tanks it was about you claiming ppu`s are unkilliable and need a nerf which is utter bollocks.
anti spells need lowering to about 100 mana cost and cast speeds doubled then everyones happy. appart from you who wont be happy till monks are deleted totally :rolleyes: go sit in a corner with kin and fiddle with your bits
I never said anything about monks being removed:confused:
However....wot did kk give ppu's a freeze spell for? seriously go on? tell me.
Its so they can run off when they feel endangered by attack's, ive seen many many ppu's stand there with multiple apu's/tank's shooting them, it takes 30 mana to cast and casts in less than 1 second and is a rapid fire spell.....however, the apu's only way to kill a ppu takes ~250 mana and is no rapid fire spell.....there is UNBALANCE FFS!!!!!!!
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 18:32
Originally posted by Dream
Agreed. Holy antibuff is a ppu killer, even if the ppu gets his shelter up in time to save his life...if theres a tank with you his gat will surely finish the ppu off before the deflector gets up.
No it won't, lol. Holy antibuff is the "ppu killer" if the ppu is being attacked by a moderately sized group. Also if the ppu isn't being paralyzed then it's much more difficult.
I'm talking about good ppus btw.
Originally posted by Dream
Agreed. Holy antibuff is a ppu killer, even if the ppu gets his shelter up in time to save his life...if theres a tank with you his gat will surely finish the ppu off before the deflector gets up.
So now if the apu is with a tank he can kill the ppu with his gattling etc..?
Ok let's put it fair. If the apu has a tank with him, the ppu has another tank or an apu with him. He can shield his tank mate, can paralyze the apu and his tank mate (yes the one with the speedgun), can damage boost both, and can holy heal the lost health of his tank friend.
Now imagine the situation, but instead the ppu teamed with a tank, think with an apu.
If I look at it closely, I cant see anything but unbalance.
The only problem as i see it is that PPU and APU are like totally different characters, they just look similar. If you took away a monk's choice of being PPU or APU after the beginning of the game, and made them into 2 different looking classes, then im sure everybody wouldnt argue so much about monks in general. You can have a clan of all-monks that works, which you couldnt do with other classes, and thats because you ARENT ACTUALLY ALL THE SAME!!! With a tank the only choice is to go H-C if you want to play PvP, a spy is best with rifles (because you have to get close to use pistols, against the idea of a spy) and a PE is best with pistols, so this is what everybody chooses. The Monk as it stands is really just the only one who can be used for both of its options, APU and PPU, and this is where it appears people get annoyed, because of this obvious link between the two. If there were 2 separate characters, with different models and different names, say Obliterator and Angel (obvious which is which) then maybe we would see more teams of Tanks and PPUs, or PEs and APU from the beginning of the game, as we see with APU and PPU. <--- i wrote this before but i dont think anybody read it, it was on the end of my Monks post which i started against monks and ended with them :)
Original monk
29-08-03, 19:25
REMOVE HOLY ANTIBUFF, REMOVE ANTISHIELD
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