View Full Version : Pvp Aspects that need to be changed.
My name is Clownboat. I am a l33t pker. I don't like carebears. Here are some issues that need to be addressed to turn this game back into half of what it was before the pk nerf patch.
1) Psi Monks have no aiming, can run cast, can run just as fast as any other class, have high HPs, are impossible to kill (apus), can out damage any other class through their savage left clicking, only class that parashock, have insane range on their spells, and look like jawas.
2) The run speed cap is too high. The netcode is simply too shitty to allow for such high run speeds. Group fights aren't fun at all anymore. PvP isn't near as fun anymore when people can run for a zone line at 80 mph. Everyone moves at such a fast rate it just doesn't feel right. Back when there was freezers the high run speed wasn't a problem. Now it is. Please either reduce it considerably, allow for longer more hindering leg shots, or add the freezers back in. This is a mmorpg with an awful net code NOT unreal tournament. Running that fast just isn't neccessary.
3) Since when does stealth = invulnerability? This mechanic is just a joke. It is next to impossible to kill someone 1v1 if they have stealth. Either remove it because its horrid, add more grenades to this game and let them uncover stealthers, or put a limit to how many times it can be used a day or something.
4) The cursed soul still isn't balanced. It was bad enough back in the glory days of Neocron when a gen tank could freezer tank you and then crouch and click. Now its 10x worse when the cursed soul is more accurate and aims faster than my liberator. Gen tank guns should be slow, unaccurate, with MASSIVE damage. It is impossible for a PE or SPY to kill a gen tank w/ cursed soul that is even halfway good 1v1. Yes, I know the gen tank should be better but the way it is now it's just a little ridiculious. The key to beating the gen tank in the glory days was always taking advantage of its inaccurate cannons. Now, they are just as accurate as anythign else.
5) BRING BACK ITEM LOOTING. I used to be one of the best pkers, if not the best (not to brag) and still wouldn't profit from the old random drop loot system. I would almost always lose as much as I gained. It did however, pay for your teleports basically. Now pking is just a huge moneyhole. You gain absolutely NOTHING from it. And no pker in his right mind wants to gimp himself to get hacking. Even if you do have a hacker with you when you pk, hacking a QB for 30 secs is usually a free kill for some carebear. Please please please, bring back random item drop with #1 slot secure AND a quickbelt drop. Without a decent loot system pvp is just mindless and accomplishes absolutely nothing. Even you carebears have to admit that when you would kill a famous pker, get his gun, and then listen to me err him whine, it made you feel real fucking good. I bet that doesnt happen anymore.
Thank you for reading my post. I would prefer if only people who actually know pvp respond to this post. I would also like it if psi monks didnt bother responding but I doubt that will happen. KTHX
SigmaDraconis
29-08-03, 01:46
:rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 01:56
Originally posted by ClownBoat
My name is Clownboat. I am a l33t pker. I don't like carebears.
I would also like it if psi monks didnt bother responding but I doubt that will happen. KTHX
Way to earn points with the forum.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
1) Psi Monks have no aiming, can run cast, can run just as fast as any other class, have high HPs, are impossible to kill (apus), can out damage any other class through their savage left clicking, only class that parashock, have insane range on their spells, and look like jawas.
Apus are impossible to kill and have high HP? Wrong on both accounts.
And only ppu can parashock. We can't run as fast as any other class. Even if I overspec agility, I still have to sacrifice athl for more resists and HEALTH. Furthermore our PA has no force/pierce, and apus are extra vulnerable to pe and lib. ALSO, we may not have recticle but we still have to aim.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
2) The run speed cap is too high. The netcode is simply too shitty to allow for such high run speeds. Group fights aren't fun at all anymore. PvP isn't near as fun anymore when people can run for a zone line at 80 mph. Everyone moves at such a fast rate it just doesn't feel right. Back when there was freezers the high run speed wasn't a problem. Now it is. Please either reduce it considerably, allow for longer more hindering leg shots, or add the freezers back in. This is a mmorpg with an awful net code NOT unreal tournament. Running that fast just isn't neccessary.
I thought you said you were 1337? Only people I have trouble hitting is pistol pes. And even then, that's THEIR advantage. Their fast ass speed. You want freezers back in or slower speed? It sounds like you want your lack of aim to be accomadated.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
3) Since when does stealth = invulnerability? This mechanic is just a joke. It is next to impossible to kill someone 1v1 if they have stealth. Either remove it because its horrid, add more grenades to this game and let them uncover stealthers, or put a limit to how many times it can be used a day or something.
Spies need and deserve stealth. I don't think pes should have stealth, but it's not terribly unbalancing so it's not that big of an issue.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
4) The cursed soul still isn't balanced. It was bad enough back in the glory days of Neocron when a gen tank could freezer tank you and then crouch and click. Now its 10x worse when the cursed soul is more accurate and aims faster than my liberator. Gen tank guns should be slow, unaccurate, with MASSIVE damage. It is impossible for a PE or SPY to kill a gen tank w/ cursed soul that is even halfway good 1v1. Yes, I know the gen tank should be better but the way it is now it's just a little ridiculious. The key to beating the gen tank in the glory days was always taking advantage of its inaccurate cannons. Now, they are just as accurate as anythign else.
I don't think tanks should be able to overcap runspeed to run faster with their CS out, I agree with that. I also agree with them doing high damage. I'm not sure if their cannons should be "terribly" inaccurate. I don't think that would be fair.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
5) BRING BACK ITEM LOOTING. I used to be one of the best pkers, if not the best (not to brag) and still wouldn't profit from the old random drop loot system. I would almost always lose as much as I gained. It did however, pay for your teleports basically. Now pking is just a huge moneyhole. You gain absolutely NOTHING from it. And no pker in his right mind wants to gimp himself to get hacking. Even if you do have a hacker with you when you pk, hacking a QB for 30 secs is usually a free kill for some carebear. Please please please, bring back random item drop with #1 slot secure AND a quickbelt drop. Without a decent loot system pvp is just mindless and accomplishes absolutely nothing. Even you carebears have to admit that when you would kill a famous pker, get his gun, and then listen to me err him whine, it made you feel real fucking good. I bet that doesnt happen anymore.
huh? "please bring back random item drop with #1 slot secure AND quickbelt drop".
huh? Isn't that the way it is now? Could you rephrase perhaps?
I voted number 3 btw. :angel:
if points 2 and 3 are giving you problems you cant be that l33t a pker
Welcome to TrollWorld [tm]
sorry i cant vote theres no option for
this dude is a joke and beause he has no skill and cant bitch slap people even tho he thinks hes a l33t pk'er but blatantly isnt so hes gonna just winge winge winge bout issues that if he thought through he might possible reallise hes talkin arse
all those options u said were what got takken out the game to reduce ramdom pking and turn it into whats its ment ot be and thats clan figths etc. u can still random pk but they took the rewards away from it because with the old system (freezers etc) lots of people got fed up of lamers wiith freezer pistols / lib combo owning everyone which takes the piss. only people that liked all things u said are lamer random pk'ers (and im not sayin random pk'ing is lame just those who use the lame tactics)
i think as it is now is better than it ever has been as fights are fairer than b4 and encorage team play (a grp with a good hacker can easiyl get peoples gear after the fight whilke the others protect him.
Hi Starkes. I take it this means you haven't had too much success PKing lately? :p
lol ya i dunno if it is but it sounds a lot liek starkes to me too
From your post I can tell your a PE and not only that but that your are a shitty PE.
well if it is starkes he isa pistol PE that used to pk when
1) piercing armour was bugged
2) freezer weapons slowers u down to a crawl even turn speed
3) pistols were over powered
basically he was a lamer and could won 3 tanks at a time because anyone witha pistol pe could back then it wasnt exactly hard.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
[B]1) Psi Monks have no aiming, can run cast, can run just as fast as any other class, have high HPs, are impossible to kill (apus), can out damage any other class through their savage left clicking, only class that parashock, have insane range on their spells, and look like jawas.
2) The run speed cap is too high. The netcode is simply too shitty to allow for such high run speeds. Group fights aren't fun at all anymore. PvP isn't near as fun anymore when people can run for a zone line at 80 mph. Everyone moves at such a fast rate it just doesn't feel right. Back when there was freezers the high run speed wasn't a problem. Now it is. Please either reduce it considerably, allow for longer more hindering leg shots, or add the freezers back in. This is a mmorpg with an awful net code NOT unreal tournament. Running that fast just isn't neccessary.
3) Since when does stealth = invulnerability? This mechanic is just a joke. It is next to impossible to kill someone 1v1 if they have stealth. Either remove it because its horrid, add more grenades to this game and let them uncover stealthers, or put a limit to how many times it can be used a day or something.
4) The cursed soul still isn't balanced. It was bad enough back in the glory days of Neocron when a gen tank could freezer tank you and then crouch and click. Now its 10x worse when the cursed soul is more accurate and aims faster than my liberator. Gen tank guns should be slow, unaccurate, with ASSIVE damage. It is impossible for a PE or SPY to kill a gen tank w/ cursed soul that is even halfway good 1v1. Yes, I know the gen tank should be better but the way it is now it's just a little ridiculious. The key to beating the gen tank in the glory days was always taking advantage of its inaccurate cannons. Now, they are just as accurate as anythign else.
5) BRING BACK ITEM LOOTING. I used to be one of the best pkers, if not the best (not to brag) and still wouldn't profit from the old random drop loot system. I would almost always lose as much as I gained. It did however, pay for your teleports basically. Now pking is just a huge moneyhole. You gain absolutely NOTHING from it. And no pker in his right mind wants to gimp himself to get hacking. Even if you do have a hacker with you when you pk, hacking a QB for 30 secs is usually a free kill for some carebear. Please please please, bring back random item drop with #1 slot secure AND a quickbelt drop. Without a decent loot system pvp is just mindless and accomplishes absolutely nothing. Even you carebears have to admit that when you would kill a famous pker, get his gun, and then listen to me err him whine, it made you feel real fucking good. I bet that doesnt happen anymore.
1. Some changes need to be made but none you would like and i dont want to repeat myself all the time...
2. Lowering the runspeed means removing skill from the game. Totally! Where does that help an evil l33t skilled ubah pker? o_O
3. I havent got any problems with stealthers.
4. I agree its aiming speed should be changed and damage should be increased.
5. Hmm. Dumb Pkers would get loads and loads of free stuff, the others a just fucked.
Thank you for reading my post. I would prefer if only people who actually know pvp respond to this post. I would also like it if psi monks didnt bother responding but I doubt that will happen. KTHX
HAHA, actually just because of this statement i shouldnt even bother answering but too late, i did. :D :D
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 02:56
Starkes? Hrmmm, I feel like pointing helen to this thread. :D
The monk part is a dead giveaway. There's also an almost identical thread on the Saturn in game forum somewhere.
starkes should just go ot a game that needs no skill to kill people he would be happy there.
i know he calls us all carebares because we like a fair fight but who ever cared what starkes thinks?
Hahaha your a funny pk'er because ive infact killed you twice and both times u DMed me back crying.
If your such a "1337 PK'er" woudlent you just come back and kill me instead of crying about ranks?
so this is starkes the socalled infamous PK'er. lol i can't wait to see his 1337 skills.
This post isn't about Starkes (whoever that is). It is about a shit pvp system that needs to be reworked. Please stay on topic kids.
BTW if you vote "no he makes interesting points but i disagree" it would help if you post what you agree/disagree with.
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 05:47
Originally posted by ClownBoat
BTW if you vote "no he makes interesting points but i disagree" it would help if you post what you agree/disagree with.
i already did. :p
Originally posted by ClownBoat
It is about a shit pvp system that needs to be reworked. Please stay on topic kids.
Neocron has one of the best pvp systems in any mmoRPG, in my oppinion there is nothing wrong the features certain characters get atm, there just needs to be more implimented to counter certain features para etc.
And for calling people posting here kids, are they the ones who has created a new account on the forum soley for the purpose of bitching because they cant cut it in pvp? Asking certain groups of people not to reply shows how you dont seem to understand the meaning of community. This game isnt about you or your class its about everyone so get used to the features in the game, be more constructive in your critisisims or go back to playing counter strike or whatever other fps you'll be more at home with.
I said stay on topic. That means you cyphor.
Originally posted by Cyphor
Neocron has one of the best pvp systems in any mmoRPG, in my oppinion there is nothing wrong the features certain characters get atm, there just needs to be more implimented to counter certain features para etc.
:rolleyes:
Shadow Dancer
29-08-03, 06:46
It looks like he's trolling.
i did stay on topic
your are a lamer stop ya bitching no one agrees wit u u are not a l33t pk'er u needed to be lame to win
basically u suck at pvp as u cant get an obvious advantage.
i dont agree with your ideas does not mean im off topic
KRIMINAL99
30-08-03, 03:57
dude... You have a post count of 10, a join date of aug 2003 and you are talking about the old PVP rules... Something is obviously amiss here. Is this some antipker trying to dillute valide arguments with silly bs?
Anyways .. You complain about the run speed being too fast, and then tank aiming needing to be slower. What class are you? If you use pistols take advantage of the runspeed so tanks cant hit you as well. If you use heavy weapons then don't complain about the run speed... its there to counteract the high damage of heavy weapons (and does so well). Hybrid monks have already been nerfed... now they have to choose between extreme vulnerability and inability to attack very well... IMO that is fair. Stealthers? You can't attack while stealthed... there is nothing wrong with it. If your class is stealth able you get to run away easier (they can still aoe spam you) thats not any big deal.
The only thing you said that I agree with is the drop rules as far as PVP being a money sink now. Thats 100% true and needs to be fixed back.
And @ whoever said only pkers would get items the idea is everyone is supposed to PVP other people from enemy factions, and it keeps the items flowing through everyone's hands.. In fact the number of each weapon in the economy would be increased thus making it easier to get them. (Some would be stored temporarily by people not using them while new ones were made to replace them).
Whiety Bulger
30-08-03, 04:00
WTf fare fight this isnt a knight sdule.In a post apocolyptic world curropted by crime u dont walk up to some on and say "ello would you mind if I scarp with you" Thats just stupid. In war you locate the enemy and defeat it by what ever means possivle there is no chivalry in Neocron get used to it.
whiety i didnt mean fair fight liek that i ment as in calss balence. all this in an apocalyptic world etc etc...... has nuttin to do wiht what was on about. i mean this guy is complaing becasue pvp isnt liek the old days when a pistol PE with a freezer pitol could own anyone because of the games inbalence and bugs. im not sayin someone cant kill someone while there hacking etc etc thats all part of the game, i simply was talkin bout how silly it was in the old days. i used to be rifles and had to use my parashock spell and i should own tanks doint that but it wasnt fun as it was no challenge.
Originally posted by Thundra
well if it is starkes he isa pistol PE that used to pk when
1) piercing armour was bugged
2) freezer weapons slowers u down to a crawl even turn speed
3) pistols were over powered
basically he was a lamer and could won 3 tanks at a time because anyone witha pistol pe could back then it wasnt exactly hard.
1) piercing armor was bugged for him aswell
2) everyone had freezer weapons, not only starkes, and definetly he was not the only pistol PE
3) "liberator" was overpowered, and that was more due the pocket blizzard than any piercing resist, huge damage, or bounce health bug.
Some people seems to miss these points. Starkes was good in his time, and these features were avaible for everyone. I remember Starkes being a Rifle PE aswell, I almost could swear seeing him in drugs to use a First Love.. and he still went with another guy or alone to TG canyon, Military Base or Tech Haven to PK.
And about ClownBoat.. well I dont know if this guy is Starkes.. I doubt it. I havent heard the words "idiots" and "morons" in his posts, so probably he's just a friend of Starkes.
BTW if you vote "no he makes interesting points but i disagree" it would help if you post what you agree/disagree with.
NC has a shitty pvp system?!? Fuck ur right...we could be stuck with SWG or DAoC(Dark Age of Camelot ) where u hit me then i hit u then u hit me and i hit u pretty much boiling down to who has the most hp... PvP in this game right now = teh pwn
So no more crying...kid:lol: :lol:
LOL! PE's cant beat a good tank 1vs1? My liberator PE owns 99% of tanks in this game. A PE can take way more hits then a tank. I take 13-15 CS hits, no Tank (or pe other then me) can say that.
The run speed isnt too high, I just pked an apu and ppu last night with my PE.... yeah a jumped em, but they jumped my alt, thats why i had to kill em.
Freezers suck ass... please never say you want them back again
The corrent drop system is good, the old one sucked. Here was the old drop system: a fight between 2 or more players breaks out. fight fight fight. Suddenly really injured player stops moving. (he is putting his weapon away so it wont drop) then dies.
In the belt syste, well, no you wont get anything good from a smart person other then monks maybe, cause every tank, pe, spy who is smart will carry only one rare. But ahhh... most people arent smart, they are stupid. So there are plenty of people you can pk and get great items from. There was one week on pluto i went berserk PKing, pking all night. just one week. Here was the memorable loot: 1 slot moon striker, 2 slot maldiction, 4 slot holy heal, 3 slot holy shelter, psi core cpu (what a moron carryring this around) 2 slot judge, viper king armors, 4 slot tangent gatlin cannon, 5 slot TPC.
I like to fight, and I like to PK. But i think its unacceptable to not have at least 1 safe slot. If I lose my liberator on saturn, thats it. Game over. Im poor, i got no backups, no lib parts, and i would have no gun to hunt with. I lose it, im out of the game, finnished. On pluto i got backups, but not saturn. And if you kill a bunch of people and take their main gun a few times, they are out too. Then you have nobody to pk anymore. think about it.
BTW your posts bias theres no sleeping with dead dromes vote. :(
Mr Friendly
30-08-03, 07:10
Originally posted by ClownBoat
My name is Clownboat. I am a l33t pker. I don't like carebears. Here are some issues that need to be addressed to turn this game back into half of what it was before the pk nerf patch.
[B]1) Psi Monks have no aiming, can run cast, can run just as fast as any other class, have high HPs, are impossible to kill (apus), can out damage any other class through their savage left clicking, only class that parashock, have insane range on their spells, and look like jawas.
err....u gots lot to learn bout monks & the game in general.
there's also called parashock rifles & parashock cannons, monks arent the only ones who can.
ppu monks cant die yes, and in return, they cant kill, some do, but it takes a while. APUs can be killed farely easily, unlesss they kill u first. APUs are made to do the most dmg of any char.
also keep in mind that if someoen has very high ATL & AGL, they have to sacrifice some stat to get it.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
It is impossible for a PE or SPY to kill a gen tank w/ cursed soul that is even halfway good 1v1. Yes, I know the gen tank should be better but the way it is now it's just a little ridiculious. The key to beating the gen tank in the glory days was always taking advantage of its inaccurate cannons. Now, they are just as accurate as anythign else.
hehe errmm.....obviously u havent seen many PEs fight against tanks. maybe ur taking this conclusino from all the PEs & spies uve PK in the back? even so that has nothing to do with their PvP affectiveness against tanks.
gotta agree with the stealth thing
any, and i mean ANY other mmorpg game, damage ALWAYS uncovers hidden characters....no matter how they are hidden (spell, technique, skill, item, etc)
it should be like this in neocron, if a stealthed person runs into a barrel or something...boom unstealthed.
Mr Friendly
30-08-03, 07:18
Originally posted by VetteroX
LOL! PE's cant beat a good tank 1vs1? My liberator PE owns 99% of tanks in this game. A PE can take way more hits then a tank. I take 13-15 CS hits, no Tank (or pe other then me) can say that.
i know alot that can :p
I'm sorry but a good gen tank will almost always be able to beat a PE, like 99% of the time. If you think differently you should probably fight some gen tanks that know what the hell they are doing.
Do I like freezers? No, I don't. But I hate how characters can run so fast. The netcode in neocron simply doesnt allow it. I mean it's impossible to actually dodge plasma cannon bullets. You try to jump and the burst just chases after you. I think the system needs to be slowed down and be more like Planetside. A game with a poor netcode is no place for super fast characters.
The run system also makes it much harder to actually kill someone. This is a bad thing when killing someone gives you absolutely nothing. Also, Pepper Park fights are nothing like they were. Now someone can just run to a safe zone from across the zone and still live usually.
Mr Friendly
30-08-03, 08:04
Originally posted by ClownBoat
I'm sorry but a good gen tank will almost always be able to beat a PE, like 99% of the time. If you think differently you should probably fight some gen tanks that know what the hell they are doing.
Do I like freezers? No, I don't. But I hate how characters can run so fast. The netcode in neocron simply doesnt allow it. I mean it's impossible to actually dodge plasma cannon bullets. You try to jump and the burst just chases after you. I think the system needs to be slowed down and be more like Planetside. A game with a poor netcode is no place for super fast characters.
The run system also makes it much harder to actually kill someone. This is a bad thing when killing someone gives you absolutely nothing. Also, Pepper Park fights are nothing like they were. Now someone can just run to a safe zone from across the zone and still live usually.
dude, come to pluto & fight some PEs here. ull see how PEs can kill tanks then(notice i said fight, not PK by means of shooting in the back)
Originally posted by ClownBoat
I'm sorry but a good gen tank will almost always be able to beat a PE, like 99% of the time. If you think differently you should probably fight some gen tanks that know what the hell they are doing.
Tanks wont always beat a PE that knows what he's doing as well.
Although me and vettero havn't been to neofrag in a couple months,
i'm sure he knows his stuff. As for you, never heard of you Clown.
FBI
Helen Angilley
30-08-03, 08:50
Let's see, Starkes is someone who:
Used Freezers
Used a bugged weapon (Were Liberator users _really_ "skilled" or were they just so "skilled" because the way the Lib abused resists?).
Rarely attacked people of his own rank...only did so in self-defense.
Would bitch and complain when eventually taken down.
Was taken down on pretty much all his "raids".
Hid behid a group when things got too much for him.
Was taken down by a newbie wielding a Street Rifle.
And this guy can justify posting this Thread?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Woo, that was fun. :)
If the original poster isn't Starkes, then...eh, I still let my post go here.
my point exactly helen
the guy who said starkes used rifles is wrong your thinkin of hes parter in crime styles (who didnt lame i have to say that guy didnt use bugged weapons or anything he was just a pk'er)
well he may have but he wasnt like styarkes was. i never backed down froma fight with him when he was around pking i just think its funny how he makes complaints about carebares and because he cant kill anyone due to lack of skill hes complaining, which sorta makes him a carebear in a way.
i also have no idea with hes problem with monks. if i use my tank or pe i can take out an apu monk they drop in seconds, just shoot them first thats all. if there witha ppu monk then its different but a ppu monk + any other cahr is a pkiong force to be reconed with.
i say to u clown (starkes or not) look at the people who know how to pk now and learn from them rather than complain. u may see from this post u have pretty much no one on your side of the argument as we all adapted and made use of the changes.
Originally posted by Mr Friendly
ppu monks cant die yes, and in return, they cant kill, some do, but it takes a while.
PPU's CAN die and CAN kill.
Cryotchekk
30-08-03, 14:47
Originally posted by ClownBoat
My name is Clownboat. I am a l33t pker. I don't like carebears. Here are some issues that need to be addressed to turn this game back into half of what it was before the pk nerf patch.
1) Psi Monks have no aiming, can run cast, can run just as fast as any other class, have high HPs, are impossible to kill (apus), can out damage any other class through their savage left clicking, only class that parashock, have insane range on their spells, and look like jawas.
2) The run speed cap is too high. The netcode is simply too shitty to allow for such high run speeds. Group fights aren't fun at all anymore. PvP isn't near as fun anymore when people can run for a zone line at 80 mph. Everyone moves at such a fast rate it just doesn't feel right. Back when there was freezers the high run speed wasn't a problem. Now it is. Please either reduce it considerably, allow for longer more hindering leg shots, or add the freezers back in. This is a mmorpg with an awful net code NOT unreal tournament. Running that fast just isn't neccessary.
3) Since when does stealth = invulnerability? This mechanic is just a joke. It is next to impossible to kill someone 1v1 if they have stealth. Either remove it because its horrid, add more grenades to this game and let them uncover stealthers, or put a limit to how many times it can be used a day or something.
4) The cursed soul still isn't balanced. It was bad enough back in the glory days of Neocron when a gen tank could freezer tank you and then crouch and click. Now its 10x worse when the cursed soul is more accurate and aims faster than my liberator. Gen tank guns should be slow, unaccurate, with MASSIVE damage. It is impossible for a PE or SPY to kill a gen tank w/ cursed soul that is even halfway good 1v1. Yes, I know the gen tank should be better but the way it is now it's just a little ridiculious. The key to beating the gen tank in the glory days was always taking advantage of its inaccurate cannons. Now, they are just as accurate as anythign else.
5) BRING BACK ITEM LOOTING. I used to be one of the best pkers, if not the best (not to brag) and still wouldn't profit from the old random drop loot system. I would almost always lose as much as I gained. It did however, pay for your teleports basically. Now pking is just a huge moneyhole. You gain absolutely NOTHING from it. And no pker in his right mind wants to gimp himself to get hacking. Even if you do have a hacker with you when you pk, hacking a QB for 30 secs is usually a free kill for some carebear. Please please please, bring back random item drop with #1 slot secure AND a quickbelt drop. Without a decent loot system pvp is just mindless and accomplishes absolutely nothing. Even you carebears have to admit that when you would kill a famous pker, get his gun, and then listen to me err him whine, it made you feel real fucking good. I bet that doesnt happen anymore.
Thank you for reading my post. I would prefer if only people who actually know pvp respond to this post. I would also like it if psi monks didnt bother responding but I doubt that will happen. KTHX
1) psi's are a bit fucked, but i dont know what u mean by not being able to kill apu's. the have no good buffs. did u mean to say 'ppu'? and yeah, they really do look like jawas. i expect the spy pa to look like boba fett now.
2)yeah run spead does seem a little high, but its not too bad.
3)stealth is great as it is. i think the obliterator lasts too long though, and i use stealth so thats saying sumthing. ive been killed loads of times with stealth on. a certain monk seems to be able to target my still :/ but if u use aoe weps it not too bad
4) pe's own tanks. on pluto ive seens so many good tanks die to pe's like rade, woopin, moregore (when he was a pistol pe)
5) i pk and hack. its not hard.
Cryotchekk
30-08-03, 14:49
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
Let's see, Starkes is someone who:
Used Freezers
Used a bugged weapon (Were Liberator users _really_ "skilled" or were they just so "skilled" because the way the Lib abused resists?).
Rarely attacked people of his own rank...only did so in self-defense.
Would bitch and complain when eventually taken down.
Was taken down on pretty much all his "raids".
Hid behid a group when things got too much for him.
Was taken down by a newbie wielding a Street Rifle.
And this guy can justify posting this Thread?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Woo, that was fun. :)
If the original poster isn't Starkes, then...eh, I still let my post go here.
helen, no offence, but you always come here talking like a hard arse but you do fuck all in game. ive pk'd you with my tank and then you've fucking dm'd me bitching about it. STFU NOOB.
Helen Angilley
30-08-03, 15:02
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
helen, no offence, but you always come here talking like a hard arse but you do fuck all in game. ive pk'd you with my tank and then you've fucking dm'd me bitching about it. STFU NOOB.
Maybe you should elaborate a little hun, before mouthing off like that.
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
Let's see, Starkes is someone who:
Used Freezers
- used freezers when EVERYONE used freezers.
Used a bugged weapon (Were Liberator users _really_ "skilled" or were they just so "skilled" because the way the Lib abused resists?).
- used a liberator when most PE's used the fucking liberator, and when Neocron was called Tankotron. Hybrids were still in development. As I have said, he also used rifles, and he still went to PK everywhere.
Rarely attacked people of his own rank...only did so in self-defense.
Haha this is good, Starkes attacked EVERYONE of any rank, big or small groups, when stealth didnt exist, when only his speed and skill were a way to avoid freezers and parashocks of monks.
Would bitch and complain when eventually taken down.
Where have you heard this? you are full of assumptions, the only words you heard of Stakers was "morons" and "idiots". he never dm'd us after killing him.
Was taken down on pretty much all his "raids".
Dreaming?
He had the awesome hability to scater big groups and take them one on one. Eventually, when you have an entire faction chasing you, and you still fight them, you have to die. He had more guts than the current TG and TH raids, full of people who stealth away when troubles come.
Hid behid a group when things got too much for him.
Another assumption. He fought 95% of the time alone or with Helmut. You rarely could see him with the entire HATE clan.
Was taken down by a newbie wielding a Street Rifle.
:rolleyes:
And this guy can justify posting this Thread?
More assumptions? So you are completely sure this guy is Starkes eh. Let me doubt it.
Yes, I meant to say PPU in my post.
I can usually kill a APU but the problem is if an APU is in a group you are usually toast.
I also don't see how a PE can beat a gen tank. I've never considered myself bad at PvP but I have fought several good gen tanks and lose horribly every time. It seems like their cursed soul hits me as much when im running all over the place in circles as it down when i stand still. I suppose it is possible that im doing something wrong but I severly doubt it.
I wish all this talk about this strange Starkes character would stop. This post is about trying to improve pvp not argueing about whether or not Starkes was good.
you could stop it all by telling us who you are:p
Shadow Dancer
30-08-03, 17:43
Originally posted by ClownBoat
Do I like freezers? No, I don't. But I hate how characters can run so fast. The netcode in neocron simply doesnt allow it. I mean it's impossible to actually dodge plasma cannon bullets. You try to jump and the burst just chases after you. I think the system needs to be slowed down and be more like Planetside. A game with a poor netcode is no place for super fast characters.
You hate how characters can run so fast? Why? Is it because you can't hit them?
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
i expect the spy pa to look like boba fett now.
rofl
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
5) i pk and hack. its not hard.
Tanks can't hack belts. Apus can't afford hacking, and um well pistol pes and spies can.
I actually agree to some of the points, sorta..
Without going too much indebt into them, this is the one I agree with most:
Originally posted by ClownBoat
[B]2) The run speed cap is too high. The netcode is simply too shitty to allow for such high run speeds. Group fights aren't fun at all anymore. PvP isn't near as fun anymore when people can run for a zone line at 80 mph. Everyone moves at such a fast rate it just doesn't feel right. Back when there was freezers the high run speed wasn't a problem. Now it is. Please either reduce it considerably, allow for longer more hindering leg shots, or add the freezers back in. This is a mmorpg with an awful net code NOT unreal tournament. Running that fast just isn't neccessary.
Currently people are running around like quake 1 reaper bots on crack. Not the least bit realistic and as he says, the netcode and the aiming system doesnt support it. Look at any other semi-realistic fps or mmofps (planetside), the fps gameplay in itself in those games are usually far superior to neocron and its mostly due to the slower runspeeds.
Shadow Dancer
30-08-03, 17:54
Slower runspeeds?
I dunno, i've been able to manage well and so have alot of other people. if runspeed was decreased I bet my apu would be owning everyone, lol. :p
I managed well in Doom too, thats not the point. 50mph runspeeds is a thing of the past, almost every fps-like game has realised this except neocron/KK.
Shadow Dancer
30-08-03, 18:00
Originally posted by Rade
I managed well in Doom too, thats not the point. 50mph runspeeds is a thing of the past, almost every fps-like game has realised this except neocron/KK.
But it's so much more exciting.
juvestar15
30-08-03, 18:00
Hey Starkes.
6 months on the losers still hold a grudge.
It's like you wiped out their entire family. :rolleyes:
Delete your PE. Start an APU. Get a PPU friend, glue him to your arse and bob's your uncle. You'll be back on your PKing feet in no time :)
You always said you hate freezers, but since everyone else used them you did too. Same thing with monks.
Helen Angilley
30-08-03, 18:05
Originally posted by Rade
I managed well in Doom too, thats not the point. 50mph runspeeds is a thing of the past, almost every fps-like game has realised this except neocron/KK.
Why was there such an outcry when KK "nerfed" runspeed a while back then?
Imo they didnt nerf it enough, if you take of another big chunk of runspeed then vehicles would be used for travel and pvp would be enhanced greatly. Look at the gameplay in planetside for example, its hellofalot more fun than neocron, too bad that theres no content.
And seriously, theres been outcries about everything regardless if its a good or a bad change, I dont think that the amount of outcries is good to measure anything with.
Rade, you have to be the smartest fucking person on this forum (excluding me).
If runspeed was reduced by like -40% then the game would be a lot funner. I mean should you really be able to run just as fast as most vehicles? I tried pking with vehicles the other day only to have run casting psi monks left click me to death as I tried to drive off. Group battles are also just a fucking huge headache. A bunch of people running in circles at lightspeed is not my idea of a good time.
Not to mention, the only reason freezers were in the game was to make up for the poor netcode (im pretty sure). The netcode hasn't been improved but freezers have been taken out. That should tell you something.
My point is, lowering the runspeed would actually add more skill to this game. People would have to play a lot more carefully and group based combat would be a lot better. It would also greatly improve vehicles. I mean come on, this is a MMORPG FPS not Unreal Tournament 2003: NEOCRON
Cryotchekk
30-08-03, 20:30
Originally posted by ClownBoat
Rade, you have to be the smartest fucking person on this forum (excluding me).
If runspeed was reduced by like -40% then the game would be a lot funner. I mean should you really be able to run just as fast as most vehicles? I tried pking with vehicles the other day only to have run casting psi monks left click me to death as I tried to drive off. Group battles are also just a fucking huge headache. A bunch of people running in circles at lightspeed is not my idea of a good time.
Not to mention, the only reason freezers were in the game was to make up for the poor netcode (im pretty sure). The netcode hasn't been improved but freezers have been taken out. That should tell you something.
My point is, lowering the runspeed would actually add more skill to this game. People would have to play a lot more carefully and group based combat would be a lot better. It would also greatly improve vehicles. I mean come on, this is a MMORPG FPS not Unreal Tournament 2003: NEOCRON
btw, nice to see you back ingame starkes (if it is you!)
i would rather they didnt nerf runspeed, just put freezers back in. if everyong had a parashock or a freezer pistol/rifle/cannon/drone then no one would complain. making the game a whole lot more fun.
i deffinatly see what you mean. ive seen alot of tanks run faster than me with their cs out when it is supposed ti hinder their movement. but good pe can totally own tanks. come to pluto :D
Just to warn you, if the run speed is nerfed, then PEs will lose their primary defence. Nerf run speed and I guarantee you a PE will never again kill a GenTank.
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 02:37
Originally posted by Scikar
Just to warn you, if the run speed is nerfed, then PEs will lose their primary defence. Nerf run speed and I guarantee you a PE will never again kill a GenTank.
Exactly, I can't believe Rade suggested speed nerf.
I can land almost every hit when a tank is slowed down. Now if EVERYONE was slowed down by 40% I guarantee you all the victories will be
Tanks
pes
apus
then spies
And freezers back in the game making it fun? freezers had to have been the most skill-less thing EVER!
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
i would rather they didnt nerf runspeed, just put freezers back in. if everyong had a parashock or a freezer pistol/rifle/cannon/drone then no one would complain. making the game a whole lot more fun.
sorry dude thats what it used to be like but the main probs with freezers were
1)only the pistol s freezers and psi para shock were usable due to instant aiming on them rifles took to long and cannon ones took for ever
2)they didnt just slow u down they basically made u usless, they made u move slower that holy paralysis does now and that includes turning ., if u wantesd to look behind u then it took 5 mins and u would be well dead by then.
freezers are best as they are now.
i agree that the net code odesnt support the run speed well enough but u cant slow everyone down as tanks would actually be turrets with there gun out and as these other people said the PE and spy classes would loose one of there few advantages.
im stopin my bitching as i have to admit i was rather drunk at time of posting my other posts on this lol so now im in discusion mode instead.
btw clownboat what is ya character name and what server u play on (just wondering)
If run speed is reduced by -40% it's not going to make the PE any weaker.
I don't see how it could possibly make any class weaker since everyone except fucking psi monks are hindered because of difficulty aiming.
If anything it will help the pistol PE more because the liberator aim time is very poor and you can keep the aim longer against a slower target.
Yeah, but you can't run circles around and through tanks as effeciently with a speed gimp.
Which of course means more time for the tanks aiming reticle to close, viola tank wins.
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 07:54
Originally posted by Marx
Yeah, but you can't run circles around and through tanks as effeciently with a speed gimp.
Which of course means more time for the tanks aiming reticle to close, viola tank wins.
I agree. IMO it will come down to who can take more hits, since "decently" skilled people will be hitting each other almost every hit.
I mean 40% is a huge reduction, that's like parashock halo lol.
Originally posted by ClownBoat
If run speed is reduced by -40% it's not going to make the PE any weaker.
I don't see how it could possibly make any class weaker since everyone except fucking psi monks are hindered because of difficulty aiming.
If anything it will help the pistol PE more because the liberator aim time is very poor and you can keep the aim longer against a slower target.
True that its not gonna make the PE weaker. It would fuck up Skill. Like i said before, it would ruin PvP. TOTALLY.
Also you need to calm down about Psi Monks. Youre just bitching.
It wouldn't fuck up skill. It would add a lot more strategy and actual thinking instead of just coming down to who can keep their mouse over someone while holding down the left mouse button.
I also think gen tanks can aim just as easily as a PE with a CS. Although i havent ever played a gen tank, I still get hit repeatedly with CS blasts while running in circles and jumping at run cap. Because of this i think its safe to assume a gen tank can still hit PEs easily even with this high speed bs.
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 08:52
Can you describe in detail how it would add "alot more strategy and actual thinking"?
At close range I find the runspeed fine. With it slower, I'd die faster (due to people hitting me more easily) but not actually kill much faster (I already hit people just fine).
However.
I do agree with it being a problem for medium and long range fire. The Neocron engine just doesn't support it at those ranges - people warp across the landscape. Or they notice you firing at long range and within 2 seconds they're at point blank range (and you won't see them running towards you.. just one minute they're far away and then suddenly they're circle-strafing round you with weapon out).
I don't like reducing runspeed as a fix for that, but I don't see many other solutions as it's an inherent limitation of the game engine (as far as I can tell, anyway).
Originally posted by ClownBoat
It wouldn't fuck up skill. It would add a lot more strategy and actual thinking instead of just coming down to who can keep their mouse over someone while holding down the left mouse button. Thats NOT just holding down the damn mouse button! Do you even play this game? There is stragegy in big battles (edit: at least in some ;)), but in 1 vs 1 its SKILL, and less runspeed would totally fuck this up.
I also think gen tanks can aim just as easily as a PE with a CS. Although i havent ever played a gen tank, I still get hit repeatedly with CS blasts while running in circles and jumping at run cap. Because of this i think its safe to assume a gen tank can still hit PEs easily even with this high speed bs.
Well with this i have to agree, tanks aim way too fast in clos combat. thats just not the way cannons should work. More damage, worse aiming, that would be it.
But hey, as you are the evil ubah pker who knows all the secret shit and stuff, what the run cap and what gun do u use? 8|
It would add more strategy and skill in several ways.
Sniping would be insanley better since you it would be more difficult for characters to reach your spot and it would be easier for you to hit them. This will help out PE/Spies a lot.
You have to actually be careful. You wouldn't be able to attack people anymore knowing that theres a -pvp zone or GR close enough to run to if you get in trouble. People might actually die in PP since people cant run to plaza at warp speed.
Sneaking up on characters and attacking them first can give you a huge advantage since they can't run straight to plaza or a gr.
Since all characters move slower, group battles will take a lot more skill. The way it is now, it is very difficult for a group to actually use good teamwork. Every one is moving so ungodly fast it's hard to help other people out. With movement speed reduced it is easier to focus fire and strategic positions of the defending team will play a much larger role.
It will allow for a lot more skill than the curren system does. The way things are setup now it just comes down to who can aim better and whether or not there is a -pvp zone around that someone can run to.
Cryotchekk
31-08-03, 18:37
Originally posted by ClownBoat
It would add more strategy and skill in several ways.
Sniping would be insanley better since you it would be more difficult for characters to reach your spot and it would be easier for you to hit them. This will help out PE/Spies a lot.
You have to actually be careful. You wouldn't be able to attack people anymore knowing that theres a -pvp zone or GR close enough to run to if you get in trouble. People might actually die in PP since people cant run to plaza at warp speed.
Sneaking up on characters and attacking them first can give you a huge advantage since they can't run straight to plaza or a gr.
Since all characters move slower, group battles will take a lot more skill. The way it is now, it is very difficult for a group to actually use good teamwork. Every one is moving so ungodly fast it's hard to help other people out. With movement speed reduced it is easier to focus fire and strategic positions of the defending team will play a much larger role.
It will allow for a lot more skill than the curren system does. The way things are setup now it just comes down to who can aim better and whether or not there is a -pvp zone around that someone can run to.
youve persuaded me now to think that run speed should be nerfed, but i still think freezers should be put back, and the freezer rifles made better so they aim faster. tanks can use all 3 freezer pistol so u wouldnt have to fuck with the cannon etc. freezers do add strategy (in my opinion) too wich would make op wars even more fun
QuantumDelta
31-08-03, 18:41
Are you a droner, or just a rifle PE that doesn't have a clue what he's doing...? o_O
Shadow Dancer
31-08-03, 18:41
Yea everyone using holy para(oh wait, except apus), that would make PvP SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fun. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by ClownBoat
add more grenades to this game and let them uncover stealthers
Like that part!!
QuantumDelta
31-08-03, 18:52
hehe, APUs = 100% Dependant on runspeed, since they can't take the damage available.
Liberator PEs would be SO Overpowered by this, at close range, without the ability to dodge like people can at the speeds they do currently? you could just land burst, after burst, after burst, of 370/min ammo into your opponent and they'd fall over before they could even unload a clip at you.
It takes two lib clips to kill ANYONE except a PPU/someone with PPU Buffs at this time.
The weapon would be massively overpowered.
Tanks wouldn't even be able to move, so that's unfair in itself, combined with the weaponry runspeed nerf and this nerf, it wouldn't be possible for a CS Tank to dodge.
"Tag your shit."
"Turret combat is the least skilled combat in any game, anywhere, campers and people that do not move, or dodge, or engage actively are skill-less."
"The ability to move, control movement, and estimate your enemies movements while at high speeds, with low reaction times is one of the most prominent signs of skill ever."
"The ability to keep one step ahead of the game in an equal setting universe is an advantage that belongs only to the best."
I'm sorry, but you really don't get that some classes are dependant on runspeed.
Pistol Spies.
Rifle Spies. (Closer range).
Pistol PEs.
APUs.
Melee Tanks.
Heavy Tanks. (runspeed)(See note in Boost)
All of these characters WOULD be hit by a runspeed nerf, hugely.
Classes that would get boosted?
Droners.
Heavy Tanks. (being able to dump huge amounts of firepower into a person due to no one being able to dodge).
PPUs. (Para would probably draw you down to about 20% of the original ability to move before your nerf).
Rifle PEs. (Range)
Rifle Spies. (Range)
You sound like you think you know what you're talking about, but the problem is, reducing runspeed like that, 40%, would completely kill the viability of certain classes, and some of those classes are on the very edge of viability, as it is.
Most especially hit are Pistol Spies/PEs, and APUs.
As for fighting in PP.
If you're getting pissed off at people zoneline camping, MOVE FURTHER INTO THE ZONE.
If they follow, they will die.
If they don't follow then you wont have to worry about them having run away. :p
You can quite easily bait someone back to the back of PP1, away from both the subway and the p3 zoneline, I've done it a hundred times.
Runspeed is fine the way it is.
Helen Angilley
31-08-03, 20:15
Originally posted by Ste-X
click click
Owned.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
MjukisDjur
31-08-03, 20:24
This is pure crap. Here, have some stfu.
Im not a mega carebear but you are out of line
helen, whats up? all i see in your posts is you attacking other people trying to defend the games rules to be left how they are.
and you saying 'you killed starkes with a street model rifle' i can tell straight away the type of player you are. because i actually remember that day, it was when starkes was letting people kill him at a genrep and he was 99% impaired. and you bragged about it for about an hour in OOC.
and you are talking about he hides behind his team mates? whateva girlfriend.
contribute more to a post insead of flaming people with your passive agressive bullshit.
[u one those girls who hang abou MIRC all day?]
anyway, i agree with rade and clonboat....... in a way, but scikar has a point. but! this can be resolved easily. with some adjusting to making weapons more relistic.
In all my posts I have been assuming the other changes I suggested are also in effect with the reduced runspeed.
Liberator overpowered? Not at all. You obviously didn't play back when there was freezers. It's not anywhere near that bad.
juvestar15
01-09-03, 09:53
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
Owned.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow you're cool. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Helen what is your name in game?
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