View Full Version : Remove parashock?
OK it's recurring point in the 'nerf ppus' threads, people on both sides of the argument are advocating a removal of parashocks.
So here's the deal:
PPU defence is justified by the lack of offense. However parashock is a very offensive spell, and is hardly ever used in defence. Therefore, in order to justify the extreme defence a ppu monk has, parashock should be removed. It is entirely detrimental to PvP, and it is the one thing that makes ppu monks so much more important than other classes at an OP war, just above ressurection.
Ressurection we can live with. Parashock we cannot. Vote now and justify your defence.
w00t second vote =)
get rid of paras and the world will be at peace (for a few patches).
:D
Basically I agree with your view on parashock and I vote Yes to remove it. I think it's a good first step.
I wanted to talk with you, but seems I'm late :(
I agree with the idea of removing parashocks, specially holy paralysis, but the poll is not prepared to contain the most said opinions in the ppu threads.
Just my thoughts.
Originally posted by Sleawer
I wanted to talk with you, but seems I'm late :(
I agree with the idea of removing parashocks, specially holy paralysis, but the poll is not prepared to contain the most said opinions in the ppu threads.
Just my thoughts.
What would you have done different?
I want to keep it independent of the ppu threads, ideally. Whether or not ppus need to be toned down should be discussed there, this thread is just about discussing whether people agree with me or not that parashocks are detrimental to PvP.
Tired of it, rated worst, and ignored.
kthxbye
Originally posted by Pfehh
Tired of it, rated worst, and ignored.
kthxbye
Thank you. I value your input, and I'm grateful for your insight.
If para shock is removed then PPU is goign to be more boring than watching paint dry. It is the only way that PPUs can get 3 retards with Gats off you. YOu can jsut stand ther ebut it will go on for ever. The only way i woudl agree with this is the option 2 IF ppl shot the ppu they get a parashock or something liek that.
Remove the spell but change holy PSI shield (which atm is the msot pointless thing ever) and make it cast hoyl para on some1 that shoots the ppu.
Sounds fair :)
In answer to Arcadius question:
What would you have done different?
As you can see in the other ppu threads, the opinions about ppu's were diverted between:
1- having too much defences in themselves
2- their hability to share defences, still to important in a fight
3- their agressive skills like parashocks and damage boosts having a devastating effect in other runners, specially parashocks.
I think the thread should have contained these options. Is true that most of us, if not even all, agreed that parashocks are the biggest problem, and want it removed.
However look at your own thoughts; you believe that ppu's hold an excessive importance in the battle, and also believe that no class should have such awesome defence. Your option is removing them, I have one different.
The ppu role is too important, but that's maybe result of them being at same time key pieces in a fight and also the hardest class to kill. I face two options, as I posted in previous threads:
1- Remove or decrease the essential importance of ppu's in the battle field, hence tweaking their role, or "nerfing" the ppu role into less supportive.
This evolves from nerfing even more shields in others, removing parashocks, etc...
But what's the point of this option, what are we going to give ppu's if we reduce their usefulness in combat... their lack of offence (still they have that capability) is the consecuence of having the defence support role. If we take it out, or nerf it, then we have to give them something in exchange.
2- Improve or keep as important as it is the ppu role, included paralysis. But make the ppu exactly what the "King" is in a chess game. The figure that you MUST protect, not the last man standing which at same time that holds the capability to ressurect his team, rebuff fighters and heal the harmed, has incredible defences in himself and do not risk his life even being in front line.
This is what I think.
Originally posted by Scikar
I want to keep it independent of the ppu threads, ideally. Whether or not ppus need to be toned down should be discussed there, this thread is just about discussing whether people agree with me or not that parashocks are detrimental to PvP.
Then sorry Scikar, I just have hijacked your thread with my previous post.
I want you to know, that maybe I can dislike the way you made the poll, but I will fully support you against parashocks. With my ideas I just try to give more alternative ways than "how I'd like to see the game".
Originally posted by Birkoff
If para shock is removed then PPU is goign to be more boring than watching paint dry. It is the only way that PPUs can get 3 retards with Gats off you. YOu can jsut stand ther ebut it will go on for ever. The only way i woudl agree with this is the option 2 IF ppl shot the ppu they get a parashock or something liek that.
Remove the spell but change holy PSI shield (which atm is the msot pointless thing ever) and make it cast hoyl para on some1 that shoots the ppu.
Sounds fair :)
I don't like this idea, ppus would literally be invincible since holy para destroys your mouse sensitivity. It's almost like casting holy para on everyone for free.
I can see all that Sleawer but that's not what this thread is about. Maybe further changes would be needed after that if people feel that ppus are too difficult to take down/have too much of an effect but to be honest that doesn't bother me nearly as much as parashock does. I don't mind that ppus can ressurect etc because eventually they do die. What bothers me is that I at least have a chance if I'm alone vs for example 5 tanks. Swap all of them for 1 offensive class and a ppu and I automatically lose because of parashock. I can't even make a run for it, I'll just get parashocked and then there's nothing I can do. Hence I would be 10 times happier if parashocks were removed, and maybe then I could be more rational about tweaking ppus if I felt anything was still necessary.
Originally posted by Arcadius
I don't like this idea, ppus would literally be invincible since holy para destroys your mouse sensitivity. It's almost like casting holy para on everyone for free.
That's exactly why I didn't post an example about that. I know some ppus want a defensive option as a replacement but I also know that this community cannot decide on one from previous threads. So I would prefer to leave that part to KK, but through this poll ppus can say "Yes parashock should be removed but I only agree if I get a defensive replacement."
oh my god
not ANOTHER poll about removing para.
for the love of god, when will you people learn? KK knows about paras and will balance/remove them if they think it is needed.
now
http://www.ileet.net/images/stopwhining.jpg
btw, i do think they need balancing, but NOT removing.
Originally posted by Omnituens
oh my god
not ANOTHER poll about removing para.
for the love of god, when will you people learn? KK knows about paras and will balance/remove them if they think it is needed.
If no one complains, how will KK no there's a problem?
I think they should just give it a high mana cost and slower casting time. Would still be very powerful. I hate when you have to chase around some asshole forever. With lag and low FPS in pvp parashock is needed (I'm a pisol PE ffs). Kinda like a debuff, something used to remove a single target easier.
Originally posted by Arcadius
If no one complains, how will KK no there's a problem?
you where obvioulsy too busy SPAMMING to spot the other 3 million Parashck threads.
Originally posted by Omnituens
you where obvioulsy too busy SPAMMING
You mean posting super huge smileys and just repeating the same 'OMG NOT ANOTHER THREAD' type statements? Oh wait that's you.
Sorry if you feel I spam, but I don't.
Originally posted by Omnituens
to spot the other 3 million Parashck threads.
I know. But you made it sound like NO threads should be made. Sometimes it takes alot of vocal people to get something changed. Look how long it took people to get pistols boosted. Look how RARELY melee tanks or droners get a boost.
Like I said, if people stay quiet nothing will change.
Well go right ahead an remove it I voted yes it just makes apus better and everyone can enjoy targeting people in a nice OP fight. Sooner its taken out the sooner we can start the bring back para threads.
ZoneVortex
27-08-03, 03:21
Yes, but replace with something defensive.
As in, maybe, make psi shield viable for PPUs or something like that.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Sooner its taken out the sooner we can start the bring back para threads.
You cuz peopel that post of these boards always like to bitch about something dont they ffs, why can't they enjoy what they got or make a way to fix it rather than "DESTROY PARA IT MAKE ME DIE KILL IT DESTROY IT"
</rant>
Originally posted by ZoneVortex
Yes, but replace with something defensive.
As in, maybe, make psi shield viable for PPUs or something like that.
Anything that means the ppu has the same level of defence before and after, except he can't just freeze any random person who might not even be a threat to him. When was the last time you got PKd and the first thing you saw WASNT a blue holy paralysis beam? Getting attacked used to be exciting, you'd shit yourself and start running for you life. Now you just type /set kill_self 1 cos there's nothing else you can do.
Para is more than a PPU's defense.
Make it the idea i said earlier... + change res some how so u cant res some1 while a whole clan is ganking you.... can do it.. im ppu... but its seem so pathetic....
make cast rate slower and mana cost higher.
not sure if anti para drugs make u buzzed but if they do then remove that and make them sorta like boosters or something with no true drug effects.
No i think parashocks are needed to advance... they dont have to go as high as they do... but insted of saying that is tto strong get rid of it. perhapse alter it a bit.
maybe if you hit someone with a parashock they get a bit more resistance to attack. basically turning the hare into the tortise your being hit by a containd innertial barrier it is posible bullets wouldnt hit with the same kick and the spell field might cause interferance.
suggestions for alternative.
a reflect spell
a % of the attack bounces back at the attacker
the field around the target takes the kinetic energy from the attack focsing the energy back on said attacker
a very defencive spell of you ask me. the 5 reflected will be calculated by the difference of the tl of the spell with the tl of reflected weapon thus if something way under your level attacks you it will absorb 60-70% but if someone shoots you with a first love or something it cracks right through.
maybe keep parashock on as a no damage slow down ray like it kinda was in beta. but if you take away all the damage doing spells make the other spells give more exp.
JustIn_Case
27-08-03, 09:41
I voted Yes, but replace with something defensive.
Or maybe just make parashocks use a mana cost of 150-200 so it cant be spammed.
And dont nerf PPUs defenses.
PPUs are not that hard to kill, you just need a 2 vs 1 situation like:
1 PE + 1 Tank (PE or APU or SPY even) vs PPU (PE DMG Boost)
1 PPU + 1 Tank (PE or APU or SPY even) vs PPU (PPU DMG Boost)
1 APU + 1 Tank (PE or APU or SPY even) vs PPU (APU antibuff)
We killed a PSI capped PPU (with a DS even) yesterday with a 1 PPU + 1 Tank combo. I dmg boosted, and the tank wasted him.
But then ofcourse i used a parashock beam on him....If you remove parashock, you make PPUs less important in a fight and you make him harder to kill as well.
PPUs should be hard to kill, but they are not.
Original monk
27-08-03, 13:30
zzzZZZZzzZZZZzzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzZZZzzZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZZZZZzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZ ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz
BOOOOOOORIIIIIIING
edit: cause any reasonable discussion has NO use for the
NERFBOYS
Same shit, different day.
Please, PLEASE, PLEASE stop whining about Nerf monks etc... It is getting dull now
I voted for removing them, but actually KK should first decrease the RoF, increase the mana cost. Then the shock effect should be tweaked. If this don't work out, then KK should take it out and/or replace it with something new for PPUs.
Tweaking is just a change of few parameters, why not give it a try? Yes, I hate that HP spaming, but why going from one extreme to other extreme when there are easy to accomplish steps in between?
I was all for just tweaking parashock so that it can't be spammed. But then I realised that only changes OP wars. The 'ganking' scenario isn't changed - the first thing you'll know about being ganked will still be the parashock.
Rince this isn't about nerfing monks, it's not even about nerfing ppus. Removing parashock will actually make them harder to kill, but OP wars wil become more fun. Which I'm sure was supposed to be the whole point of this _game_ but it seems to have gotten lost somewhere around the point where KK decided to give ppus something to do.
how about this for a general idea about psi spells. how about the moment the monk dies or leaves zone the spell deactivates straight away. therefore kill the monk no more spells.
Personally, I think the best solution to it would be what something similar to what Sleawer said in another thread.
Make it so that the antiparalyze drug (or a new form of one) has a preventative effect, basically making you immune to parashock for a short period of time. That way it can still be used against monsters as effectively as it is now, and can be used in PvP without the insta-death sentence once you're hit with it. However, there would have to be some balance to it, otherwise it would still be as if they were removed anyways. They could make it so you can only use...say....3 preventative anti para drugs within a half hour or so.
The drug flash would be plenty enough. Using it 3 times is usally enough for a fairly bad flash.
They could probably minimize the flash a bit, or make it so the drug lasts long enough to be effective without getting hit with flash a few seconds after you use it.
oh well more ppl want to keep para than to do something about....
now stop crying =)
JustIn you killed a ppu with a combo of ppu + tank so what? maybe that ppu was a complete noob, that means all ppu's are?
The only way I have to kill a GOOD ppu is with apu+ppu combo, and if the enemy ppu is clever, it wont work. If anyone is protected against parashocks, those are the ppu's; with the Holy Catharsis Sanctum any parashock or damage boost simply doesnt work, and forget poison.
PPU's ARE too hard to kill, dont come with bullshit telling they arent just because you killed a noob.
We make a trick to kill ppu's, and it is while I debuff my ppu casts a TL-25 shelter, so he cannot outheal my APU damage anymore.
The PPU situation is depressing. Take a rifle PE...
He meets an enemy tank in crp, both fight, and both have a fair chance to win or lose.
He meets now 2 enemies, a tank and an apu monk; he has a chance aswell, he can kill the apu monk fast with luck and then with fast heals take down the tank. His chances are lesser, but again he can do it.
He meets a couple of tanks, and a spy; his chances now are minimal, the tanks can fight him in close while the spy can stealth and attack outside the fight to not be killed in first place. But again he has chances to win the fight, and definetly he will fight and make it hard for his three enemies.
At last he meets ONE ppu and any other class:
- The rifle PE attacks the [tank, apu, spy or pe] who is with the ppu, he is breaking his shields due the 50% reduction, but a holy heal is casted and the damage is outhealed. Now the ppu casts holy paralysis + damage boost and the battle is over.
or
- The rifle PE see the ppu and attack him, the ppu laughs and cast holy paralysis and damage boost, then the other class terminate him.
This is pathetic, sorry but it is. Anyone telling a PPU is easy to kill have not faced a good ppu.
Now tell me that anything of this is a lie, if any have guts. You only can try to justify this, and I dont know how anyone can justify such unbalance. The menace is the ppu, but you cannot neutralize it unless you have an army.
I have killed ppu's yes, a lot of times. But always with the trick mentioned above, or because I managed to sneak in the enemies from behind and cast a holy antibuff from 200m away, then told everyone to attack the ppu. The chances to do this are minimal, usually we have to kill the ppu's AFTER everyone in the enemy lines is dead.
And you cannot be more wrong deac, read the poll properly.
Originally posted by Sleawer
And you cannot be more wrong deac, read the poll properly.
At the moment I look at it now.
Most people do not want Parashock removed.
Some want it tweaked.
Another total want it removed.
So the no removal of para is winning.
Archeus read the options and the question:
Remove parashock and justify their defence?
1- YES
2- YES, but replace it with something defensive
these two are YES to remove parashocks
3- No
Shall I add the values of the two first options for you?
Option 1 and option 2 are not the same thing.
So no, adding the two together is not a true value.
Let me tell you something; people see a problem with parashocks, therefore they want it removed, and some of them see fair to give ppu's something defensive in compensation.
Both kinds of opinions share one common problem, so I'd say the options are related between them, as I spoke with the thread starter about this extensively, and know his opinions and why he has chosen those options.
As I have said, I'd go deeper into the ppu problem, but he has one main worry to share in this thread: Parashocks and their devastating effect in PvP.
So vote if you havent done it, and stop trying to twist the obvious into your subjective interpretations.
As lanigav have said, I proposed to make drugs a prevent effect instead a remove effect, so we have a real protection, a good counter measure, against super glue 3 spell.
No they are not the same. Let me explain easier.
I voted for second option (remove but give something defensive).
Had there been just an option "yes" or "no", I would of voted "no - don't remove parashock".
You can argue all you want that somehow people voting for the second option are voting for it's removal, but that is not why I voted. So while others may vote to yes if there were two options, but I wouldn't. So I guess others wouldn't too.
So for me the majority do not want to see parashock removed, without at least some form compensation.
Archeus your reasons to vote one option or another are irrelevant (unless you post them here instead imaging new meanings for the options). You dont want parashock removed, hence you dont see a problem with it, vote NO. Is it so hard to understand?
You want parashock removed, but want something in compensation, thus being fair removing-adding, vote the second option.
You want parashock removed, and PPU's can fuck themselves, then vote YES, the first option.
Sorry to tell you, but if you voted the second option, you want parashock removed, because you see a problem with it. The fact that you want something in compensation, doesnt mean that if you dont get it, the problem with parashocks doesnt exist.
Originally posted by Archeus
Option 1 and option 2 are not the same thing.
So no, adding the two together is not a true value.
Parashock removal is a result of both of those options.
5 people vote that the color blue is lame.
5 people vote that all colors are lame.
10 people think the color blue is lame. winnar!
If parashock is replaced with something defense, guess what it's STILL gone.
Therefore parashock removal is winning.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Sorry to tell you, but if you voted the second option, you want parashock removed, because you see a problem with it. The fact that you want something in compensation, doesnt mean that if you dont get it, the problem with parashocks doesnt exist.
Erm.. no. I don't have any problem with parashock at all the way it is now. However if through all the childish whining it was to be removed I would want something in it's place.
Easy enough to understand? So no, second option does not mean I want parashock removed or that there is a problem with parashock.
But keep living the dream, the both of you.
btw, reply if you want (either of you) I won't be reading it.
Originally posted by Archeus
However if through all the childish whining it was to be removed I would want something in it's place.
Then you voted improperly. You're picking the "*sigh* if this MUST happen then I prefer this option".
Originally posted by Archeus
Easy enough to understand? So no, second option does not mean I want parashock removed or that there is a problem with parashock.
Ok, but that's not what the option is about. THe option advocates parashock removal, whether or not YOU truly feel that way doesn't matter. You're making it seem like all the people who pick that option picked it for the same reason you did.
IF the question says "want parashock removed?" and the 2nd option says "yes and replace", the yes already indicates that parashock removal is STILL what is wanted, just in addition to something else. I'm sorry if YOU picked it for the wrong reason then.
Nevermind.
What Arc said.
Originally posted by Archeus
btw, reply if you want (either of you) I won't be reading it.
:lol:
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
:lol:
Disturbed021
27-08-03, 20:12
Originally posted by Archeus
So no, second option does not mean I want parashock removed or that there is a problem with parashock.
I voted Yes to option number 2 to remove Parashock but add in something defensive.
And you are wrong.
the question is: Remove Parashock?
possible options;
1. Yes
2. Yes, but add something in defensive
3. No
Both 1 & 2 say Yes to remove Para.
You apparently misunderstood.
Heck no!! That would screw my 5 slots holy para! 3 words for u peeps that voted yes...concentrated antishock fluid:D
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