View Full Version : Pistol Spies officially unviable it seems
In this (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73240) thread Callash gives the likely stats on Spy PA, they may not be final but I see no PC bonus anywhere, it seems the official word is that Pistol spies are not viable as a combat class, I guess the high level rare pistols are just for tradeskill spies to cap with.
I wonder why its -INT instead of STR or CON...?
I mean, the tank powerarmor has -DEX, the tank's "3rd place" skillset.
Looks good though.
Wonder how much they'll cost, or what you'll have to go through to get one.
As for pistols... I dont know.
I've seen an endgame build that makes pistol spies not only viable but just as strong as PE's (and some would claim tanks).
I'm surprised no P-C armor was included.
Vampire222
26-08-03, 21:53
yea what bs, melee tank pa and no pistol pa laaaaame
must admit, looking at those stats......seems pretty mmm stupid to have a requirement of INT and DEX to use the suits, and yet the suits themselves are taking away INT :/ Callash....explain please :/ just make sure I'm reading this right :/
nEo-1664/Ole
Tank PA is going to have a -CON with the new stats. At a guess I would say the -INT on spy PA is probably a method for keeping it away from PEs planned before the class specific reqs were coded, but that's just a theory. If it had -CON then that would be a 3rd along with tank and monk PA (though it would be fine with me), while a -STR would make wearing some Inq or Duranit armor even harder, or take some of your battle armor off. A -PSI would have very little effect, so it seems -INT would be the best option since all PAs have at least some disadvantage to go with their advantages.
May I take this opportunity to say a wholehartedly :p to Drake6k. Being impolite wont get anyone anywhere, also, I wanna say thanks to Callash for posting that, appriciated :)
CryptoChronic
26-08-03, 22:13
well spies werent really made for pistol use... you dont see tank PA adding P-C... because they were meant for cannons... as spys are too weak for close combat they are meant to use rifles
If that was true Crypto then ROLH wouldn't be so out of reach of PEs.
I think the rifle suit should give PC too, because no spy would have both RC and PC.
Originally posted by Arcadius
I think the rifle suit should give PC too, because no spy would have both RC and PC.
Good point.
I'm not complaining about the -INT mind you.
It doesnt prevent really... anything.
About all it'll do is hurt WPL effectiveness a little. Maybe hack as well.
It'll hurt the rifle users more than the pistol users because of this, but again, I don't think it'll be extremely noticable.
I'm not sure many tradeskillers would be wearing it anyway.. (don't quote me on that though)
I was just curious about why INT?.
But if the Tank PA is being changed to -CON then that's why, I guess.
It won't hurt weapon lore, remember there's no loss of subskill points from it, and main stats only affect certain skills (so yes hack is affected, but DEX is the main skill affecting rifles).
Ok thanks, I didnt know which skills INT affected directly.
About the only one I know is CON -> HLT since I tend to swap out hearts when fighting poison and non-poison and can see the difference in hitpoints.
Does make getting into heavy belts a bit more difficult.
With a PA 3 and a reflex 4 thats -9 int.
Would have to put in a SA or Exp Balistic 3 to get into a heavy energy belt. (along with a SF)
edit./ Assuming you have 100 int ;)
Original monk
26-08-03, 22:45
remove the -int please, its so we cant use any heavy belts :/
edit: its rather ok i was wearing my antiradiationsuit, i still have enough for all em belts :P
Disturbed021
26-08-03, 22:47
Hmmm, maybe they just forgot to throw the PC PA in the thread?:(
I certainly hope so...tho My pistol spy would still use the RC PA for the xray resist:D
They did say pa3's were designed for completly capped chars with imps. :p
Originally posted by Jolt
They did say pa3's were designed for completly capped chars with imps. :p
I hope that doesn't mean completely capped chars with mc5 chips. :rolleyes:
PA4 will be fine though. That's for drug whores anyway, a little destrosol thrown into the mix won't hurt.
Psyco Groupie
26-08-03, 22:54
sweet .. and the minus intel hurts a spy like hell becos he needs a heavy belt too .. duh
I agree that they should just add PC to the armors in the same ammount. All combat DEX implants have equal RC and PC, except the Eyes.
Might as well. Unless there is a reason.
Interesting that he didn't though.
Maybe callash is just lazy and didn't want to type the PC in there.
Darth Slayer
26-08-03, 23:16
Yum Yum I can wear the Spy PA 3 RCL no probs and the int negative's only 1 worse than the anti rad suit so thats cool.
Anyways I always take my antirad suit off when constructing anyways.
I can't wait......:D
Those armor stats are perfect. I'm at 108 INT and 105 DEX now anyway, a -4 to INT for level 2 armor is not an issue.
For those who can just barely wear the heavy belts and want Spy PA, I'd suggest you get a Smart Cybereye 4. The RC/RCL loss is compensated by the RC/RCL gain from the armor and the TC the SCE4 gives means you can LoM a bit of your natural TC to RC/RCL until such time as you can afford the INT hit from the armor w/out the SCE4 installed.
INT does not affect Weapon Lore or Hacking, according to the Skills Guide (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69477&perpage=30&pagenumber=1).
All combat DEX implants have equal RC and PC, except the Eyes.
The Targeting Computers are not equal. TC1 gives +5 PC/+5 Weapon Lore, TC2 gives +5 RC/+10 Weapon Lore, and TC3 gives +5 TC and +15 Weapon Lore.
If these are the stats of the spy's PA, there's probably another one for pistols and/or drones, like there are different ones for APU and PPU for monks.
Don't assume too much until it's ingame.
Originally posted by Arcadius
I hope that doesn't mean completely capped chars with mc5 chips. :rolleyes:
And i said you could use exp ballistic 3 or a SA. So if you dont have a SA you gota decide if the extra r-c/resists if worth the minus to str from the exp ballistic.
Or you can go the way IceStorm suggested which doesnt use a SA either.
Originally posted by Brew
I wonder why its -INT instead of STR or CON...?
I mean, the tank powerarmor has -DEX, the tank's "3rd place" skillset.
As for pistols... I dont know.
I've seen an endgame build that makes pistol spies not only viable but just as strong as PE's (and some would claim tanks).
I'm surprised no P-C armor was included. Because losing STR or CON doesn't really hurt us. They are already at such a low level that there's nothing worthwhile to use anyway.
Minus 10% of fuck all is still ... fuck all.
The INT hurts because it makes it harder to use heavy energy/fire/poison belts.
Those are a much bigger loss than 4 Pierce difference from a pair of battle pants.
As far as the PC goes - I would guess (hope) that it's just an oversight. I would expect that the suits give RC *and* PC, like SF chips etc.
Hrm.. thinking I'll be trying to squeeze my PE into one of these while I wait for the proper PE PAs :D
Whether she *stays* squeezed into it depends on what the number crunching says about the end resist result (I'm willing to limit myself to non-rare guns - I'm weird that way :))
Originally posted by Breschau
Hrm.. thinking I'll be trying to squeeze my PE into one of these while I wait for the proper PE PAs :D
Whether she *stays* squeezed into it depends on what the number crunching says about the end resist result (I'm willing to limit myself to non-rare guns - I'm weird that way :))
And it might be kinda hard to get past that "Class: Spy" requirement.
Oh. Didn't notice that bit :/
I shall refrain from ranting about artificial mechanics :p
i dont see wuts so hard about wearing PA3 and all belts; i get 108 int with 2 lvls from cap; assuming i cap i'll be at 110 int; now removing my SA would be 105 int; the PA removes 6 int; so i'm still at 99 int which allows for heavy belts.
in short the PAs do allow for people to use them w/o MC5. And if PA3 is your goal, then it is still completely within grasp of everyone who wants to use heavy belts...
Originally posted by Vampire222
yea what bs, melee tank pa and no pistol pa laaaaame
Hey melee tanks have been whining for melee PA for awhile. You want pistol spy PA? Complain like we did.
Its only fair.
:p
i like the idea ( mostly because i can use the 2nd lvl without problems)
but whats with the intel lose?
Peeping Tom
27-08-03, 06:00
Callash they look nice tbh.. but u hope there is a pistol version lurking around :)
K4F
Cryotchekk
27-08-03, 11:11
what? thats fucking ridiculous! there better be a pistol spy pa!!!!
the -int dont matter, coz SS,SF, and hawkins = +16 int :/
May i ask one thing: what do droners need armor for? And how could a motoric armorsuit improve you skill to control drones? oO
And there better be a pistol PA :)
Originally posted by Heidi
May i ask one thing: what do droners need armor for? And how could a motoric armorsuit improve you skill to control drones? oO
And there better be a pistol PA :)
You could qustion why drones are dex in the first place. :)
And ya there should be a pistol power armour.
Except the lack of +P-C these Spy PA stats make a very good impression. Adding P-C should be a problem, or can we imagine a P-C & R-C hybrid spy gaining "unplanned" advantages of this? ;-)
if i got this right, there will be different PAs for diffrent weapontypes.
there will be one PA that adds RC bonuses (and nothing else), and one PA that pushes dronerskills (and nothing else). And there will hopefully also be a PA that adds pistol skills (and nothing else). Its just that the pistol PAs were not listet by callash ;p
ps. why is this info only available for english readers? :/ if you do supply diffrent language forums you should also keep them up to date equally.
I think its BS a neg INT! gah there goes our heavy belts! our only decent armor!
Cryotchekk
27-08-03, 18:00
Originally posted by DivineOne
I think its BS a neg INT! gah there goes our heavy belts! our only decent armor!
what?
get some fucking imps dumbass. like i said, SS, SF, hawkins = +16int
Disturbed021
27-08-03, 18:30
Originally posted by Cryotchekk
what?
get some fucking imps dumbass. like i said, SS, SF, hawkins = +16int
Cause everyone can get a Hawkins:rolleyes:
darkservent
27-08-03, 18:41
HMM rememebr ppl that thats wot callash WANTED in the PA stats. The final suits will have a TC bonus if u remeber from the neocronicle where it was mentioned abt the stealth boost. And i dont think u all should be worried abt no PC armour cuase there most likly will be, maybe callash forgot abt it. Not to bothered abt the -INT on the suits cause with right chips i can still use the heavy belts. And hell with PA 3 im goin in straight for the PA4. Only like 1 drug to use it and i can really complete my uber spy setup with stealth 3 and cap all RIFLEs.
darkservent
27-08-03, 18:44
Originally posted by Lucjan
Except the lack of +P-C these Spy PA stats make a very good impression. Adding P-C should be a problem, or can we imagine a P-C & R-C hybrid spy gaining "unplanned" advantages of this? ;-)
Not really, spies who have a hybrid setup are so gimped on dmg its worse than wot a PE can get. I seen spies who do this and they dont use rares or just abt but then dmg is like nothin on em.
Originally posted by Disturbed021
Cause everyone can get a Hawkins:rolleyes:
Erm.. you just need an SF. That's +5, PA3 is -6 INT so that's 99 INT = heavy belts.
Disturbed021
27-08-03, 19:11
Originally posted by Scikar
Erm.. you just need an SF. That's +5, PA3 is -6 INT so that's 99 INT = heavy belts.
Ya I'm not really complainin about the -int, I just think its funny when ppl throw in "just put in all rare chips and an MC5, dumbass". :lol:
Cause some ppl have never even seen the inside of MC5 much less are able to go there as a SPY and get chips.
You could also take drugs to get the belt on, imo the -int isn't all that bad.
Darth Slayer
27-08-03, 19:53
My Imp setup currently gives me 111 int and I have base 99 int at the mo so wearing spy PA 3 and Hvy belts is no problem.
I agree with them affecting Int as as Spys we have loads of it spare anyways take con or str away and you'll all be crying....:rolleyes:
Jeez there's no keeping some people happy.....:D
Richard Blade
27-08-03, 21:10
If those stats are real close to final, nobody has mentioned the nerf to endurance. PA4 = -30 endurance.
That's why the -INT is the way it is, and why most spies won't complain about it.
And, with implants that I have in my apartment, I can use PA4 without drugs. muhahahahaha
edit: Actually, I'll have to look at it again. It make take a bit of serumderbat to activate the PA4 suit. But, I think I can work around that too.
Edit2: Yep, imps get me to 125. Plus 8 from the armor. So, I'll need to pop a +5 dex drug to activate it. But after that, since the GR rules suck so bad, I won't have to worry about it coming off. I walk or ride everywhere I go. hehe.
Darth Slayer
27-08-03, 21:52
Damn forgot about the endurance nerf..:rolleyes:
Think thats a bit excessive tho all it means is that you'll have to take some stamina boosters with ya....:)
I munch those things like popcorn already O_o
General Crazy
28-08-03, 22:47
This is from the IRC meeting
[16:18] *General_Crazy* pistol spys need some better armor
[16:18] *Callash[EC]* there is no pistol spy powerarmor planned
[16:19] *Callash[EC]* spies get a rifle and a rigger pa, pes get a rifle and a pistol pa
[16:20] *General_Crazy* so pistol spies are getting the short end of the stick i take it
[16:21] *Callash[EC]* general_crazy: yeah, pretty much
So it seems the Pistol Spies are unviable in KK eyes
edit: the brackets where in hinding the names so i replaced them
Shadow Dancer
28-08-03, 22:50
Who was talking and who was saying what?
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73476
You don't have to sacrafice as much for pistols as you do with
rifles, so the PA is appropriate for rifles more than pistols. But you
can still use one of the PAs for the generous xray resistance.
Same thing with tank pa. Melee pa takes away HC but gives
great resists. HC pa takes away ATL which makes you slow as
balls with the already runspeed nerf.
So pistol spies will be wearing rifle pa, hc tanks will wear melee pa :lol:
<- drools, green melee pa with cursed soul
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