View Full Version : Should players be banned for ruining GM events?
Just curious. Some people say the reason GM's don't do events more often is because the players mess it up. Do you think these players should be penalized?
Originally posted by Arcadius
Just curious. Some people say the reason GM's don't do events more often is because the players mess it up. Do you think these players should be penalized?
Generally if the event is being watched over and there is trouble makers they get sent to their apartment like a bad little boy :)
I say teleport them to Regant's Legacy and forget about them. :D
No, they liven them up! (Never auctually seen a GM event but heard they exist and usually the pking at the end is the best)
Runners who spoil GM events should be banned, it's so childish.
The GMs spend ages trying to make an event fun for everyone, and then some idiot has to come along and start chucking 'nades into the crowd (as was the case today during the Y-Rep event in Via Rosso).
All it does is stop people going to them, I know I won't be going to another GM event for a while, they all deteriorate into a pointless lame PK-fest when people get bored and start shooting each other.
I'm torn on this issue.
On the one hand, it's a shame to see less events because people spoil the ones that do occur or a GMs work go to waste.
On the other hand, I feel that if KK are, as their marketting says, creating a virtual world, then it should be a matter of 'anything goes'. If players do something unexpected or unwanted, it should be dealt with through the in-game world. If it's dealt with at all, of course - it may be that there's simply a massacre and that's what's reported in the next neochronicle (or whatever).
Basically all the pen & paper sessions I played, the GM was very accomodating to the players and doesn't force (subtley or otherwise) us through their prewritten plot. If we did something that completely spoiled the whole thing, they adapted and had their world react accordingly. So that colours what 'feels' right to me. But at the same time I'm aware that such a system is not really feasible with a larger player base or within the restrictive confines of a video game.
So I really dunno which 'hand' wins out for my standpoint. I suppose I'd grudgingly go with the first one - that GM events should be 'made' to run smoothly, so long as it's made *completely* crystal clear beforehand what the players are allowed and not allowed to do during the event.
warned first, temp banned, then perma-banned.
{MD}GeistDamnit
25-08-03, 23:33
Originally posted by Arcadius
Just curious. Some people say the reason GM's don't do events more often is because the players mess it up. Do you think these players should be penalized?
if a player comes to a gm event and kills faction enemies, maybe it is ok MAYBE.
but if a player goes to one and just aoe's the area and kills many players then temp ban em or some other thing.
it really depends on what they do. tbh an event dosent allways mean "ok im safe now from bein pked cause a gm is around"
pvp is a part of the game, and depending on the event there might be a right to kill. but also I have went to a few events where everyone got along. What kind of example do you mean arcadius ?
Basically all the pen & paper sessions I played, the GM was very accomodating to the players and doesn't force (subtley or otherwise) us through their prewritten plot. If we did something that completely spoiled the whole thing, they adapted and had their world react accordingly. So that colours what 'feels' right to me. But at the same time I'm aware that such a system is not really feasible with a larger player base or within the restrictive confines of a video game.
There is a very obvious difference between taking an unexpected path in an adventure and deliberately disrupting and ruining a GM Event, to suggest otherwise is dishonest.
A temporary ban is appropriate for the first offense (after some warnings during the event), permanent for any subsequent disruptions.
Originally posted by Alex Mars
There is a very obvious difference between taking an unexpected path in an adventure and deliberately disrupting and ruining a GM Event, to suggest otherwise is dishonest.
Shrug. I just don't like 'artificial'. I don't like the idea of events that are isolated bubbles, seperate to the regular day-to-day goings on of neocron (which does include frequent pointless killing).
But as I said in my post, I realise that that's not really feasible - the game mechanics don't really allow for the GM to adapt their event and the world to the spoilsport element.
Oh, and 'unexpected path in an adventure' is a serious understatement :)
SilentGravity
26-08-03, 00:10
How does one "ruin" events? I belive GM's "ruin" the events then anyone else, you know...server crashes...
If you are talking about some guy PKing, you know in real life for example the super bowl after 9/11, they had all ALOT of security? Maybe GM's should spawn faction guards around the area, and when I mean spawn factions guards around the area I do not mean spawn 50 of them, I mean spawn no more then 10.
I belive it even makes more fun to see some guy coming in and blowing stuff up and everyone starts chasing him, it makes the whole thing interesting.
Someone PKing should not be a bad thing, it should be almost expected, maybe a GM should hire one of the MANY merc clans to give security.
Originally posted by SilentGravity
How does one "ruin" events? I belive GM's "ruin" the events then anyone else, you know...server crashes...
If you are talking about some guy PKing, you know in real life for example the super bowl after 9/11, they had all ALOT of security? Maybe GM's should spawn faction guards around the area, and when I mean spawn factions guards around the area I do not mean spawn 50 of them, I mean spawn no more then 10.
I belive it even makes more fun to see some guy coming in and blowing stuff up and everyone starts chasing him, it makes the whole thing interesting.
Someone PKing should not be a bad thing, it should be almost expected, maybe a GM should hire one of the MANY merc clans to give security.
Actually, all the GM events I've come across have been nice up until the point asshats started to screw everyone over. GM's try to keep peace, but there's only so much they can do to keep people in check.
Faction guards and COPbots only go so far, that was proven by the beach parties, unless you're willing to put them in a grid manner similar to a mine-feild to ensure that all areas are covered and secure... Which would no doubt wreck the atmosphere of the event. When Merc clans have been hired out to do security, all that happens is people battle the Merc clans instead of enjoying the event at hand.
As for the "it makes things interesting" bit, only if thats your thing. I sure as hell won't chase them, and I know alot of people that would follow suit by not doing anything. In the end people get killed, mainly n00bs or n00bish rerolls who get caught in the crossfire while they went to enjoy an event.
I'd say make the prison like another thread suggested (in one form or another, not exactly that way). Someone breaks the law, A GM spots them, they get locked up until they're reformed.
I think that makes sense.
Issue a warning before the event or on entering it. After that - any offence=ban.
If people want to act like infants then treat them like infants.
FFS....I seriously doubt 1 person could screw up an event...they could try but everyone at the event just pulls out theyr HL or whatever and drops the fucker on his ass get a hacker someone hacks his belt......player is punished
the real problem is groups of players raiding GM events...and again just have GM put on invincible mode and spawn abunch of cop bots and res all the peace loving ppls at the event and let them hack the belts of the invading army.....or total massacre....I just cant see one or two ppl soloing the 20+ ppl at an event
[edit] oh yeah have a clearly defined set of rules anyone breaking the rules will be destroyed
Vampire222
26-08-03, 01:21
believe me, if a gm wants to he can kill 20 ppl in 1 second, so why not make em capable of doing that during events to pro0tect em from being spoiled, The rare superbat would help (if you see this your dead thing on testerver while back)
do you lot want neocron to die?
No, we want events, which GMs are reluctant to do because some retards decide to ruin it. If you can't go an hour without having to prove how big your wang is, we don't need you.
The GMs could always just integrate the trouble makers into the event, like teleport them up in the air and then autokill them (If it was something to with monks anyway) or just holy para them then spawn a fence around them.
The GMs could always just integrate the trouble makers into the event, like teleport them up in the air and then autokill them (If it was something to with monks anyway) or just holy para them then spawn a fence around them.
:lol:
that'd be freakin' awesome.
No, we want events, which GMs are reluctant to do because some retards decide to ruin it. If you can't go an hour without having to prove how big your wang is, we don't need you.
Eloquently put
:D
Psychoninja
26-08-03, 02:17
Originally posted by SilentGravity
Someone PKing should not be a bad thing, it should be almost expected, maybe a GM should hire one of the MANY merc clans to give security.
Very True
That's the worst excuse for no gm events I've heard.
SilentGravity
26-08-03, 03:27
Originally posted by cracky
That's the worst excuse for no gm events I've heard.
Originally said by a GM who was spawning about 100 scorpions in NC gate
IF I SEE CRACKHEADS PK ONE MORE PERSON AT THIS EVENT YOUR CLAN IS BANNED!
I'm sorry, but I laughed so hard when I read that back in beta :p
Anyways, yes it is a very lame excuse
Banned for attacking an large group? Whats wrong with that let them have fun if people see a PK then there should be enough to put them down.
what do you really expect from this community? Banning won't help, you get rid of one person willing to ruin an event, 2 more will take his place and do it some more. I'd like to see events go further than PK fests, but I don't hold out much hope.
Originally posted by Scikar
The GMs could always just integrate the trouble makers into the event, like teleport them up in the air and then autokill them (If it was something to with monks anyway) or just holy para them then spawn a fence around them. Agreed. Just transport the fucktards into a glass walled cage, and let them rave and froth and PK their fellow 'tards to their hearts' content.
It still amazes me - some people wonder why, when they "play a character that's a dickhead" they get upset when called/treated like a dickhead.
What is more amazing is how a griefing PK will lose their temper if you fight back (or, gods forbid, defeat them). Back in UO they often seemed to take it personally if I objected to them trying to kill me. And if you beat them you got to hear:
"if I had my main you'd be dead".
or
"my guild is going to get you".
i don't think banning of runners is the soloution. perhaps simply fineing the runners clan or individual. say skill lvl reductions, loss of all rares, loss of credits, give them -100 SL etc...
as for the GM events themselves they should be fitting of the neocron enviroment/ society. in that it should be say vip hostage situation, storming of a area/ faction, defending off a onslaught of mobs etc... not really a place to hold tea partys.
but saying that those who recently spoiled such an event should have had some form of punishment for not respecting others who were there to enjoy themselves.
edit: on the 1st part of my reply. i think i should of added that these reductions or loss would continue for a set time. so if skill lvl's were taking away. then said runner couldn't lvl to regain them. sort of a forced lvl cap for say a week or two.
i say if a person is guilty of ruining event he would have to have had some sort of good weapony armor. how bout u just clear out his GOGO and everything (includeing imps and MC5) that he had on him. leave his appt alone i guess. and charge him bunch of cash or fine his CLAN a bunch of cash...
KidWithStick
26-08-03, 06:29
depends on what type of event...and how you "ruined" it.
like that time on saturn when those 2 GM's had a "tanks only" neofrag match...i went in with my monk and killed a few people and OHHH NOOO the GM went nuts and threatened to temp ban me and kicked me out of the server MANY times. (i didnt know they could do that...lol)
to me thats pure bullshit...a "tanks only" match...wow that only proves one thing...KK has the hots for tanks.
Maybe the GM's need a "llama" command....
ie; /set llama_mode 1 "runnerX"
After the runner gets "slapped" around the zone at a high rate of speed for a few minutes, maybe they'll get the point...
llamaify them, I say....
Anyone that has played CS will know what I'm talking about...
If a GM plans an event that can be ruined, he's done a poor job planning. One of the things that makes a good Game Master is the ability to adapt your events to any situation, and to improvise a way to allow the players to ALL have fun.
And if some player's idea of fun is to try and kill everything that moves, well, the GMs owe it to those players to give them just as much consideration and just as good a time as everyone else.
Those are the words of a grief player who wants to ruin an event.
Any event that is to accomodate a large number of players takes time to set up and is usually complex to run. The more complex it is the easier it is for people like you to ruin it for everyone else.
GMs should not have to keep a posse of Stormbots on hand to make the event viable, the players should have the maturity and respect for others to avoid deliberately ruining the event.
Trying to compare this to running a tabel top game for some friends is a false analogy and essentially dishonest. Running an event in a MMOG is much more complex and trying.
If you are just a grief player who wants to ruin other peoples gameplay, why not be brave enough to come out and say it plainly?
I agree with hivemind. This is still a PvP oriented game so no GM or player should expect when there's an event everyone suddenly becomes friends, sit down holding hands and sing "Kum ba Ya" for the duration of the event.
The event has to be in line with the game therefore planning of said event has to include all possibilities, including rampant attacks from "evil" characters or "enemy" factionalists.
If in some way PvP is not appropriate for the event the GM has in mind he would be wise to plan it in a safe zone/get adequate security setup.
My 2c
...and wheter an event is ruined is a matter of perception. Nothing more nothing less.
The problem is, if you do an event, someone is guanteed to want to fuck it up. And it strikes me as funny that all the people who say it should "fit the world in an appropriate context" wouldn't know role play if it bit them in the ass. How about this for a llama command, the GM uses Llama on someone and they explode, sending all their equipment flying in random directions. The way I see it, you wanna be a fucktard, you should pay the penalty.
And it strikes me as funny that all the people who say it should "fit the world in an appropriate context" wouldn't know role play if it bit them in the ass.
Just curious, on what facts do you base this assumption? Do you even know me? Have you ever seen me not-roleplay?
And if you are not referring to me you should'nt use "all the people" in your post. I still consider myself being one of "all of the people".
Kthxbye
Heavyporker
26-08-03, 08:15
Let's be realistic about events. Let the PvPers and PKers come. Yes, let them come.
sorry guys.
The GMs should stay in RP (no mass spawn of Copbots unless, and I repeat, unless, the event is in Neocron City (well, yeah, that means pepperpark or the other unsafe zones) ... and only then from the zone entrances (yeah, cops bustin' the door down! :D ). If event is at TH, then security should be the securitybot turrets... Basically what I mean is, let's keep security in keeping with the setting.
And, yeah, the GMs should, I repeat, *SHOULD*, hire CM clans to provide security... let them arrange it, but I think something reasonable is 25k-30k per head of CM staff for the event. Sounds reasonable. That means a sizeable CM clan with most of their members on could make some serious bank for their clan and have a lot of fun as well. Hell, even the TG and DoY GMs should hire CMs... just at higher rates. After all, money speaks to CMs, right?
And, yes, if the GMs want their events to be doubly secure, well, make sure its in a safe zone or some really remote zone far away from grs - like the swamps or deep desert or the beaches...
Yep, let those pkers come if they want. That's why I got CMs at my back :)
Originally posted by jernau
If people want to act like infants then treat them like infants.
Yep:p
Q`alooaith
26-08-03, 09:19
I think there's not enough GM's with P'n'p experence, only Computer game experence..
I'd like to see how some of the GM's handle a Pen and paper RPG, I'm pretty sure they'd all find the experence strange, since if they suddenly plonk char X three miles away because he did somthing unexpected, they'd soon not be many ppl wanting to play with him as GM..
Same with events kinda, if GM's don't want ppl to shoot each other, do the event in a safezone, if you want them to try and shoot each other, but want them smiteing for it, spawn copbots, and so on. You've got a great control over parts of the game, useing the right parts is the trick.
I think people who upset GM events badly, should get a short (week or two) ban, or just a ban from the events...
Idea..
Why not make a zone just for trouble makers, like newb MC5, if you die in it you respawn in it, then when the events over let them out again.. So ppl who piss about at events end up sharing a very small, boring zone, maybe filled with 120/120 mobs that cast holy antibuff as well as attacking, that'd make people think twice, since going out would mean death again, even to a PPU.
Yeah, some kind of limbo or hell where evil doers go and are given the time to overthink their sins...
:D
SilentGravity
26-08-03, 09:46
Originally posted by ronaz
Yeah, some kind of limbo or hell where evil doers go and are given the time to overthink their sins...
:D
...Like Tech Haven?....
Q`alooaith
26-08-03, 11:04
Originally posted by SilentGravity
...Like Tech Haven?....
Yea, but all greenyfied, with say this sort of layout..
Respawn Area -- Impossible to kill mobs -- Exit to apt
sorta thing, so when the events over, a GM could go and let them out.. Then they'd not be banned not ablt to play the game, just placed in a spot where they'll get killed if they go out them big old door's and try and make a break for it..
It'd have to be PPU Proof though, maybe three or four copbots set to monster faction, then no one could pass, even with PPU buff's without being wasted..
If its a story line event people should be aloud to do what they want. it should be a story curvey thingie anyway not a line as player actions should effect the way the story goes.
To solve pking at events all they'd have to do is have events that account for it. Have the events have 2 different sides since that's the way neocron is set up now anyways.
Addition: that threaten to ban thing was cool
has anyone of the "GM should incorporate PKers" voters thought about the fact that Gm are jsut humans with god mode? They have only 2 Eyes, Ears and hands so the amount of thing they can do in a short time is limited. NO GM can type things that belong to the event when he is fighting PKers. So the original event has to be stopped beacuase of the idiots and that may ruin the athmosphere of the event.
And events are a lot of work EVEN when you don't need to handle some idiots. IMHO PKers at events should feel something that was called the GM slap by someone. The PKer dies instantly and ALL!! his belongings (including all imps) are spread over the zone. When he wakes up he will also have -10 levels in every skill. That should be sufficent!
If people think they have the right to blow up events, they should try to create their own event just once (and an attack on MB/canyon isn't an event ;)).
Most people that want the right to disturb events will never try to create on of their own. They are simple griefers 'cause they are deliberatly destroying the fun others have with the event. So they should feel the warth of the GMs. Loss of Items and skill levels will hurt much more than a 3 day ban.
If GMs could change zones to be safe zones for an event (assuming the event didn't call for weapons of course), then everything would be ok.
Either that or spawn cop bots galore.
-Krll
Devils Grace
26-08-03, 14:01
the only event i went was a long time ago.
FA was at war with TT (has it is now)
and they made an event in a warzone that was a really pvp war with both factions.
isnt that more interesting that shotting npc's
and then this problem of ppl ruined them will disapear
if factions are at war why not organize this player v player event
a BATTLE yes a BATTLE now that would be hella fun
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