View Full Version : Things That Need To Change!!
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 18:49
Ok, we have been having so many "nerf the PPU" recently, I think it's time for a balance. Currently an APU can cast anti-buff 3 times faster than a PPU can cast resurrect.....and he can strip you of three different types of life saving spells faster than you are able to recast them.....meaning that if you have a tank, and an APU shooting the "master of defense" he is easily killable. Again, this is WAY out of balance. All of this is without the PPU being able to defend himself. Here is what I think will make the PPU/APU balanced, and make many more people happy with the monk situation.
Remove the anti-buff spell, and replace it with an anti-resurrect spell. Remove the store bought resurrect, and make it a rare. both of these spell would be the direct opposite of eachother (as it should be). The anti-resurrect would only make the dead person untargetable...he would still be able to choose his GR destination. Again, this means that if a PPU has 170 PPU points and is able to cast resurrect at 8 frequency, and the APU has 190 points he would be able to cast at 10 or 12 ROF...it would make an increase in APU and PPU much more important.
The PPU should be close to unkillable, but his teammates shouldn't. A resurrect spell basically makes them unkillable....they need to be unressurectable.....debuffing the PPU should not be an option.
MortuusLupus
25-08-03, 18:51
People should not be immortals. It should not take more than a few seconds to kill them when you're firing at them with a massive shoulder mounted death-spewing cannon. The anti-buffs make the game more believable.
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 18:54
Originally posted by MortuusLupus
People should not be immortals. It should not take more than a few seconds to kill them when you're firing at them with a massive shoulder mounted death-spewing cannon. The anti-buffs make the game more believable.
AHHHH, ok.....i get it. A person who has ZERO offences should be easily killable by any tank with a gatcannon.....make senseo_O
Antibuffs aren't believable, and are cast far to fast......again, an APU can cast this faster than a PPU can recast all he has taken away=bullshit out of ballance. Oh, btw...you posted about 1.5 seconds after I did....mind reading the post next time?
I hate monks. I friggin Hate em. They have big ego's and think they are superiour.
On the otherhand I have to agree. PPU's should be able to defend themselves against a tank and an APU.
This poll is going to be very biast. Pitty.
I voted yes.
MortuusLupus
25-08-03, 18:58
Ok, so it's unreasonable that a person who weighs maybe 100 pounds soaking wet gets absolutely perforated when someone spits 40 balls of lead at him in 3 seconds? Riiiight.
I'm not saying make PPUs as strong as tissue paper, I'm saying keep PPUs out of the thick of combat. They have no offense for a reason, it's to keep them back as combat support units. Did you ever see any pictures or hear stories of combat surgeons setting up medic tents in the middle of no man's land in 1918? No? Gee whiz, I wonder why.
Originally posted by MortuusLupus
Ok, so it's unreasonable that a person who weighs maybe 100 pounds soaking wet gets absolutely perforated when someone spits 40 balls of lead at him in 3 seconds? Riiiight.
I'm not saying make PPUs as strong as tissue paper, I'm saying keep PPUs out of the thick of combat. They have no offense for a reason, it's to keep them back as combat support units. Did you ever see any pictures or hear stories of combat surgeons setting up medic tents in the middle of no man's land in 1918? No? Gee whiz, I wonder why.
[EDIT too harsh] It's unrealistic that monks exist at all. It's not about realsim. This is a game, and it is unfair. LOL
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 18:59
Originally posted by MortuusLupus
Ok, so it's unreasonable that a person who weighs maybe 100 pounds soaking wet gets absolutely perforated when someone spits 40 balls of lead at him in 3 seconds? Riiiight.
I'm not saying make PPUs as strong as tissue paper, I'm saying keep PPUs out of the thick of combat. They have no offense for a reason, it's to keep them back as combat support units. Did you ever see any pictures or hear stories of combat surgeons setting up medic tents in the middle of no man's land in 1918? No? Gee whiz, I wonder why.
Heh....fitting that tanks have the lowest intel:rolleyes:
MortuusLupus
25-08-03, 19:00
I play a PE and a Spy smart guy
Originally posted by ghandisfury
The anti-resurrect would only make the dead person untargetable...he would still be able to choose his GR destination.
That idea is great!
But i dont like the rest. o_O
Devils Grace
25-08-03, 19:08
read the others threads about ppu nerf or not nerf
what u saying is complet unbalance the game
i agree that ppus should be close to unbetable(close)u have many tactics to kill a ppu u just have to be smart (like heal him with ur shity heal) and then pam is dead
one other is that antibuff and it is a rare so not many ppl have it
as i once read..........enuff said
kthxbye
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 19:11
Originally posted by SorkZmok
That idea is great!
But i dont like the rest. o_O
Wait a minute!! Why is it that a class without ZERO offence.......ZERO offence (meaning absolutely ZERO threat) should be so easily killable by two people? Why is it that I have 8 more points in PPU use, and I cast slower than an APU casting antibuff with 170 APU? Why is it that my spells have half the range, and 1/4 the ROF than this "master of defence" killer?
So, the big issue (because I can't kill you) is my partner who can....remove him from the picture....and you remove me.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Wait a minute!! Why is it that a class without ZERO offence.......ZERO offence (meaning absolutely ZERO threat) should be so easily killable by two people? Why is it that I have 8 more points in PPU use, and I cast slower than an APU casting antibuff with 170 APU? Why is it that my spells have half the range, and 1/4 the ROF than this "master of defence" killer?
So, the big issue (because I can't kill you) is my partner who can....remove him from the picture....and you remove me.
Why is that with your ZERO offense you are fully capable of winning a duel with merely parashock, or using an assault rifle or an Uzi?
You say the ppu can't defend himself - well while he's ressurecting he shouldn't be able to. Ressurecting a team mate should be very risky to do when under attack, it should not be possible to ressurect someone while being attacked by an apu and a tank and expect to come out of it alive and with a living team mate.
And Holy Shelter/deflector maxed RoF is 52/min, which is only just over 1 second. That means in about 2 seconds you have Holy Shelter and Holy Deflector back up, and another second later you have a Holy Heal on which completely outheals the damage. If you get killed while ressurecting then the simple fact is you aren't as good as .Cyl0n, Polarity or Pete the PSI.
Disturbed021
25-08-03, 19:55
PPU = Support class/medic
APU = Killing machine that dies quickly
imho, if you are a PPU you better have a team, if everyone in your team dies to a Tank/APU or whatever combo and you are the only one left you should leave or resurrect one of your teammates at your own risk. No single class should be "unkillable" in this game and atm it is very difficult to kill a PPU.
There are dirty tactics to try and kill PPUs that some use that I'm sure will be changed soon enough.
Point being is you apparently got killed by a smart APU/Tank combo and are pissed off that you died.
2vs1 you always want to be left alive? Just because you're a support class doesn't mean you should be almost invincible. Deal with it. Spam Holy Para and walk away. WTF is the problem?
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 19:59
Originally posted by Scikar
Why is that with your ZERO offense you are fully capable of winning a duel with merely parashock, or using an assault rifle or an Uzi?
Because parashock needs to be removed.
Originally posted by Scikar
You say the ppu can't defend himself - well while he's ressurecting he shouldn't be able to. Ressurecting a team mate should be very risky to do when under attack, it should not be possible to ressurect someone while being attacked by an apu and a tank and expect to come out of it alive and with a living team mate.
Yes he should....it should take much more than a few people to kill a PPU.
Originally posted by Scikar
And Holy Shelter/deflector maxed RoF is 52/min, which is only just over 1 second. That means in about 2 seconds you have Holy Shelter and Holy Deflector back up, and another second later you have a Holy Heal on which completely outheals the damage. If you get killed while ressurecting then the simple fact is you aren't as good as .Cyl0n, Polarity or Pete the PSI.
You are not counting time switching from spell to spell. So in reality it's around 4 seconds for all buffs back up. You said in your upper post that I shouldn't expect to come out alive, then you flame me by saying I'm not good :confused: Anyway, point is they should not have a spell to defeat someones defences. Once you remove a PPUs team, you remove the PPU.
On a side note, you have a deep imbedded hatred for the monk. You have shown your hatred in every single post you make. I wonder how vigorously you would defend something close to home.........nerf the CS anyone?
Option - No, you are stupid.
First you are comparing antibuff with ressurection, when you should compare it with SHELTER and DEFLECTOR, and these can be casted nearly trice times faster than antibuff.
The cost of anti buff is 265 mana and 21/min rof capped, whereas the holy shelter/deflector rounds 80 mana each and 52/min.
RESSURECTION has no counter spell, and now that you mention it, it should be added to the game. Also the mana cost of bringing a person back from the death is ridiculously low, which needs 183 mana, compared with anti-buff, a spell specially designed for ppu's and with no other use.
And how you dare to say ppu's have no offence, a couple of ppu's with damage boost, holy paralysis and holy parashock bolt can take down even a tank in a matter of minutes. I hate the fact that a ppu can make you a target for everyone, even if it's not allied with him, just paralyzing and dmg boosting you.
Dont want to enter in ppu's using smg's or tar's.
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 20:04
Originally posted by Disturbed021
PPU = Support class/medic
APU = Killing machine that dies quickly
imho, if you are a PPU you better have a team, if everyone in your team dies to a Tank/APU or whatever combo and you are the only one left you should leave or resurrect one of your teammates at your own risk. No single class should be "unkillable" in this game and atm it is very difficult to kill a PPU.
There are dirty tactics to try and kill PPUs that some use that I'm sure will be changed soon enough.
Point being is you apparently got killed by a smart APU/Tank combo and are pissed off that you died.
2vs1 you always want to be left alive? Just because you're a support class doesn't mean you should be almost invincible. Deal with it. Spam Holy Para and walk away. WTF is the problem?
Nope, I am not making this thread because I was killed, I'm making this thread because the balance is screwed atm. YES 2vs1 I should be left alive, 5vs1 I should be left alive. I don't know what odds it should take, but it should be alot. The one thing that should be out of my control is resserecting my team mates.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
You are not counting time switching from spell to spell. So in reality it's around 4 seconds for all buffs back up. You said in your upper post that I shouldn't expect to come out alive, then you flame me by saying I'm not good Anyway, point is they should not have a spell to defeat someones defences. Once you remove a PPUs team, you remove the PPU.
And you are not counting that the apu who debuff the ppu depleted all his mana pool to cast that spell, so he's useless until the retarded psi booster fills the mana... and probably if the ppu is with a team the apu who casted the antibuff is already dead.
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 20:16
Originally posted by Sleawer
Option - No, you are stupid.
First you are comparing antibuff with ressurection, when you should compare it with SHELTER and DEFLECTOR, and these can be casted nearly trice times faster than antibuff.
The cost of anti buff is 265 mana and 21/min rof capped, whereas the holy shelter/deflector rounds 80 mana each and 52/min.
RESSURECTION has no counter spell, and now that you mention it, it should be added to the game. Also the mana cost of bringing a person back from the death is ridiculously low, which needs 183 mana, compared with anti-buff, a spell specially designed for ppu's and with no other use.
And how you dare to say ppu's have no offence, a couple of ppu's with damage boost, holy paralysis and holy parashock bolt can take down even a tank in a matter of minutes. I hate the fact that a ppu can make you a target for everyone, even if it's not allied with him, just paralyzing and dmg boosting you.
Dont want to enter in ppu's using smg's or tar's.
Parashock needs to be removed. Please get your facts before you post (and you call me stupid:rolleyes:) Holy ress 210 mana I'm at 7 ROF with 178 PPU. Capped shelter/deflector around 52 ROF, Holy heal about the same. So in 3 seconds, I am debuffed, and in more than 5 seconds (taking into account switching spells) I am rebuffed and healed.
"And how you dare to say ppu's have no offence, a couple of ppu's with damage boost, holy paralysis and holy parashock bolt can take down even a tank in a matter of minutes."
How dare you analize this thread for more than one PPU in 1vs1 fight. This is about APU vs PPU, and how APU is over powered (vs the PPU). It needs to change, but most of you have grown such a bias hatred towards the PPU, or monks in general that you can't see the forest beyond the trees.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Nope, I am not making this thread because I was killed, I'm making this thread because the balance is screwed atm. YES 2vs1 I should be left alive, 5vs1 I should be left alive. I don't know what odds it should take, but it should be alot. The one thing that should be out of my control is resserecting my team mates.
2v1 you should be able to survive 5v 1 no you should not unless very very lucky or skillful end of story 5v1 and easily win is way to powerful, PPU's should not be immortal
they pretty much are atm if the attackers have no antibuff spell
so quite bitching about PPU when there already so damn hard to kill
Devils Grace
25-08-03, 20:23
disturbed let him (they) have his way
this is what i think(acuring to ghandisfury) should hapen:
end with all para's spells
end with anttibuff
make ppu a invecible class (when buffed)
the outcome will be .........
ppu's will not be a passive (suport) class to be an ignore class (why shloud i try to kil u if i cant do it) with the only things to do is heal/ def /she, and if he can in an op battle ressurect.
what will happen in fites is ppl will kill the non ppu class, as now hapens, 1st and then ignore the ppu:lol: , we will only prevent him to ressurect by camping is mates corpses untill they are bored and GR out LOL
so go ahead with ur idead ghandi and this game will be much more fun to u.
hahahahah
what u should do is take a good look at scikar's reply (int..int)
and learn to play a ppu
and yes i got a nearly caped tank and once i was killed by 2 ppus
one damage and para spam on me the other killed me with a pistol with heat ammo ~LOL..........was no shame was fooking fun
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Parashock needs to be removed. Please get your facts before you post (and you call me stupid :rolleyes:)
YOU called stupid yourself, read your poll again. "Option 2 - No, you're stupid". What are you trying to do, twist your own poll against the people who voted no, because they are calling you stupid?
You are who should get your facts before making wrong comparisons between wrong spells and opposite role classes.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Holy ress 210 mana I'm at 7 ROF with 178 PPU. Capped shelter/deflector around 52 ROF, Holy heal about the same. So in 3 seconds, I am debuffed, and in more than 5 seconds (taking into account switching spells) I am rebuffed and healed.
Normal ressurection 6 per minute (just one less than you) and 183 mana. Holy ressurection capped at 10 per minute, costs 210 mana. There is no counter measure to this.
Holy Shelter 62 mana 52/min - Holy anti shield 260 mana 21/min
Holy Deflector 52 mana 52/min (probably more) - Holy anti deflector 223 mana 21/min
Holy Heal 50 mana 52 min (or more) - Holy anti-heal 238 mana 21/min
These are the non rare versions, so next time get your facts before posting.
Holy Heal/Shelter/Deflector sanctums and the buffs cannot be removed, aswell as Holy Godmode (catharsis sactum).
We have a RARE version which needs 265 mana and 21/rof removes shelter/deflector/heal, a FRICKIN RARE, same as your rare who removes parashocks, damage boost, poison, and turns the only decent damage that apus had against ppu's into useless shit.
This has been APU versus PPU.
Now if the PPU is teamed, he can cast holy group shelter and buff everyone near him... where is my antibuff sanctum? or my holy group antibuff?
Originally posted by ghandisfury
How dare you analize this thread for more than one PPU in 1vs1 fight. This is about APU vs PPU, and how APU is over powered (vs the PPU). It needs to change, but most of you have grown such a bias hatred towards the PPU, or monks in general that you can't see the forest beyond the trees.
And again how you have the guts to say APU's are overpowered compared with PPU's. We are probably the char who has more chances to be KILLED by a ppu alone, no need to say if the PPU is teamed we are fucked.
And FYI, my main char is an APU monk in Saturn. I am precisely who is seeing the forest, and looking beyond my class.
Antibuff is 260 mana.
That already drains us of nearly our entire pool. Ghandi you want ppus to have total invincibility is that it?
:rolleyes:
I vote no. Antibuff is one of the few things we can do. We don't have 34897034827 things like ppus. Ppus have holy fucking cath sanctum for crying out loud. PASSIVELY removing parashock, damage boost, AND Poison every few seconds. You got anti poison sanctum, you don't even have to continue casting anti poison, just let your lazy spell completely NULLIFY our damage every few seconds.
If you're gonna remove antibuff, then remove anti poison and cath sanctum.
THNX
Ghandi wants parashocked removed. Hrmmmm, do you know how utterly unkillable ppus will be if their was no parashock AND no antibuff? A fast running ppu who can reshelter in ONE second from anti-shelter. I think Ghandi has a hidden agenda TBH.
Apus are supposed to be the anti-ppus. You wanna take that away from us by only leaving us with ONE spell, anti shelter? Because anti deflector and anti heal are crap.
Btw ghandi, did you know when I was hybrid I fought a a tank and an apu who tried to holy antibuff me. And it just didn't work. If you PAY ATTENTION you can see the big white discoball and quickly reshelter when it's done, then redeflector and poof ur good to go.
Not to mention, and this is from personal experience, simply paralyzing the apu while he casts his spell, and running behind him to buff. Trust me, when I debuff a ppu and they paralyze me before I finish, it's pointless because I turn so slow to attack them.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
You are not counting time switching from spell to spell. So in reality it's around 4 seconds for all buffs back up. You said in your upper post that I shouldn't expect to come out alive, then you flame me by saying I'm not good :confused: Anyway, point is they should not have a spell to defeat someones defences. Once you remove a PPUs team, you remove the PPU.
On a side note, you have a deep imbedded hatred for the monk. You have shown your hatred in every single post you make. I wonder how vigorously you would defend something close to home.........nerf the CS anyone?
I said that you shouldn't be able to come out alive. Atm it's possible for monks to ressurect with a whole team shooting at them, that needs to change. Currently there are several people that can do it, but you aren't one of them. You're then complaining that you should be able to do it. I'm pointing out that you can't do it because you don't possess the same skill as Polarity, Pete and .Cyl0n et al. If you make it easier then they become invulnerable.
And you're argument is flawed. You're arguing that a ppu should be able to rez someone with a whole team shooting him, then you say kill his team? How can we kill his team if he's just rezzing them? All he has to do is keep trying until he can keep a team mate alive and the fight never ends.
As I said, ppus should not be very hard to kill. They should be forced to stay at the back of the fight, supporting, instead of being able to run into the enemy team, parashock and damage boost all of them, then run back to heal his own team as they do now. Yes they should have enough defence to have a good chance of staying alive if someone breaks through and attacks them, but they shouldn't be able to rez when under fire, and their team should have a responsibility to protect them.
And no I don't hate monks, I even play my apu more than my tank (though I've started playing my PE more now). In my opinion every class should be just as useful as the next. It's not fair that a team with several good ppus has more of an advantage than a different team with only one or two average ppus but several elite spies. Spies and PEs are great until there's ppus involved and they get parashocked. Not to mention the fact that they can't damage the ppu at all. Apus are needed to antibuff or the ppu simply doesn't die, even if you use tl3 heal. What are spies needed for? You don't even need them to hack - the ppus can do that.
EDIT: Btw you pretty much proved that you don't know what you're doing with your ressurection - the true ppus have more psi use and better spells so that they can cast rez faster.
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 23:25
Read the post again [ edited for violation of the forum rules - flaming ]. I am one of the people able to rezz with multiple people shooting at me. You don't know me....don't assume you do. I'm saying that the mechanics of antibuff are wrong. Change antibuff to antirezz. This is the way you can kill the team, and still have a hard time (as it should be) killing the PPU.
EDIT oh, btw...you've proved you know nothing at all about PPUs. I have a capped holy rezz, and am at 178 PPU without the DS. Before you come in flaming, at least make an effort to know what you're talking about.
You are who is flaming and insulting him, and just because he disagree with what you said, as many of us do btw.
I dont care if you rezz one person at time, personally that's the best chance I have to kill the ppu, while he's busy ressurecting instead spamming paralysis and damage boost on me.
Antibuff is a great measure in the game against ppu's, and I hope it get's improved. Is totally lame to see how ppu's turn our weapons into utter crap with shelters, deflectors... anti-poison!!, our resists into useless points with damage boost and our athletics and agility into wasted points with parashocks; all of this just by three spells. But when we have a half-decent tool to stripe them and make their job harder.. oh nooo, we are overpowered.
Wake up to the real life; the other classes are not the ones so deeply unbalanced in this game, that even complain about their role being too hard to play and having too many press in their teams; we other classes are not the ones which turn the battles into what team have more and the best ppu's.
And FYI, if 178 ppu is many for you, then you should try having 188 apu as I do, even without a DS, a gimped mana pool, and ZERO buffs and heals of any kind; unlike you who have a good mana pool, probably cap the damage on your holy heal and go damn close if not cap the holy shelter, and still can agressively devastate your enemies with paralysis and damage boosts.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Ok, we have been having so many "nerf the PPU" recently, I think it's time for a balance. Currently an APU can cast anti-buff 3 times faster than a PPU can cast resurrect.....and he can strip you of three different types of life saving spells faster than you are able to recast them.....meaning that if you have a tank, and an APU shooting the "master of defense" he is easily killable. Again, this is WAY out of balance. All of this is without the PPU being able to defend himself.
There you are. If the ppu can't defend himself, that must be because he's ressurecting, and hence can't cast his parashock/damage boost/soulcluster.
And you completely missed my point. You don't know what you're talking about because if you did, you would know that psi use affects RoF, and therefore the reason your holy rez is only 7/min is because you don't have enough psi use to cap it.
Why should you be unkillable? You shouldn't be able to wander around my OP parashocking everyone until you get bored. Even if you can't ressurect, if I can't kill you, you'll just stick around parashocking everyone until your clan mates get poked and come back.
Syntax-Error
26-08-03, 00:07
Why dont we all just become PPUs then we can all be immortal.
I watched a ppu in action the other day at an op fight last one remaining and she kept running around as to taunt us because we couldnt kill her.
ENEMY: 1 PPU
US: 1 Spy, 1 APU, 1 Tank, 1 PPU
Enemy PPU has cath sanctum on. PPU para and dmg boost. APU casts antibuff. We shoot. take her down to 50% HP, then she is already rebuffed and healed. All this was done while we were running full speed around the op. We finally killed the PPU when the cath sanctum wore off...
dont fucking say ppus need god mode....
ghandisfury
26-08-03, 00:15
Originally posted by Syntax-Error
Why dont we all just become PPUs then we can all be immortal.
Because none of us could kill eachother???? *throws hands in the air*
Syntax-Error
26-08-03, 00:25
Ohhh so its one of those " i wana be harder than EVEYONE i wana be the god no one all, my ball"
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Because none of us could kill eachother???? *throws hands in the air*
Aha! There's your "true colours."
ghandisfury
26-08-03, 01:07
Originally posted by Scikar
Aha! There's your "true colours."
o_O I've posted many MANY times about how a PPU should lose parashock. This would remove his ability to kill anybody with ANYTHING. I think I"m the only PPU who want's this removed. All my colors have shown in all of my threads....you on the other hand keep saying you "don't want to nerf the PPU" then show all that the only reason you want so many game-altering nerfs is the fact that your characters get owned otherwise.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
o_O I've posted many MANY times about how a PPU should lose parashock. This would remove his ability to kill anybody with ANYTHING. I think I"m the only PPU who want's this removed. All my colors have shown in all of my threads....you on the other hand keep saying you "don't want to nerf the PPU" then show all that the only reason you want so many game-altering nerfs is the fact that your characters get owned otherwise.
I didn't say I don't want to nerf the ppu. I said I don't want to make ppus completely unviable or destroy them. And yes my characters get owned when the other side has a ppu, every time, because they get parashocked, and whoever I attack gets holy healed so that they don't die. So naturally I go for the guy who is healing someone - if you want an analogy, it's like they have godmode on, and the ppu is the switch I have to flip to turn it off. If I have someone else with me then it's not so bad, we can outdamage the holy heal, but the annoying part is that I can take a tank and a tank, I can have a good fight with an apu and an apu, I can have fun with a PE and a PE, but swap a ppu in anywhere and I'm toast unless I have my own ppu. Ppus are just needed too much.
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