View Full Version : tl 3 healing / noob deffing ppus...
Ok ...in the last time i noticed that more and more ppl like to use a new "tactic" against ppu monks....the "tactic" is that you have 2 ppl next to you in an op fight that constantly try to tl 3 heal / noob def you...while the rest is shooting / debuffing you...
Well i think its pretty lame and cheap... its like changing a tank's cs to a tpc and not meant to be like this..
An easy fix would be to let the ppu replace weaker buffs with better buffs ...
And to all the ppl that say its impossible to kill a good ppu without that "trick"... i can tell you you're all wrong... my clan killed all good ppus in an op war.. and i got killed without it too.. so its not like you have to use it o_O
Anyway i would like to hear what you think.. should they fix it or is it a legit / good tactic in your eyes ?
Sorry for my bad english .. i hope you could understand it :p
.cy
/e whoops typo in the poll... could a mod pls edit it ? thanks..
I vote it's legit till they fix ppus. *gets flamed into crispy critters*
It's my Honest opinion.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
If you get n00b buffed, you should be able to sort of override the n00b one with a good one.
Originally posted by Arcadius
I vote it's legit till they fix ppus. *gets flamed into crispy critters*
It's my Honest opinion.
what kind of fix ?
if you really want some kind of fix or tweak for the ppus... maybe ... we can talk about it..
but then change the ppus really .. this "trick" is just cheap and you die no matter how skilled or good you are.. you just cant do anything
.cy
Originally posted by Pwnage
If you get n00b buffed, you should be able to sort of override the n00b one with a good one.
Exactly
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
what kind of fix ?
if you really want some kind of fix or tweak for the ppus... maybe ... we can talk about it..
I know, but in the meantime......
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
but then change the ppus really .. this "trick" is just cheap and you die no matter how skilled or good you are.. you just cant do anything
.cy
;)
Sort of like a ppu spamming someone with holy paralyze?
Originally posted by Arcadius
I know, but in the meantime......
;)
Sort of like a ppu spamming someone with holy paralyze?
whats the prob with para spamm ? i get it in 90 % of my op fights... and i deal with it..
my prob is that the tl 3 heal isnt meant to be a ppu killer
its meant to heal tanks / pe / spies .. not to kill ppl... thats just abusing game mechanics.. in my eyes...
.cy
Originally posted by Arcadius
Sort of like a ppu spamming someone with holy paralyze?
owned.
tl3 healage is fine because a person has to make himself defenseless
while going through the effort to wait for your buffs to run out
and counter it.
I see it as a tactic and a very good one at that. It's called beating
you at your own game.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
whats the prob with para spamm ? i get it in 90 % of my op fights... and i deal with it..
You have the defense to live through it, you have anti paralyze spells that don't cause super drugflash after 2 uses, AND you can do it back.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
my prob is that the tl 3 heal isnt meant to be a ppu killer
Like the hybrid wasn't meant to take on 4-5 people at the same time? ;)
Originally posted by FBI
owned.
you can still shoot and you still have your pa on dont you ?
......
.cy
Originally posted by Arcadius
You have the defense to live through it, you have anti paralyze spells that don't cause super drugflash after 2 uses, AND you can do it back.
Like the hybrid wasn't meant to take on 4-5 people at the same time? ;)
and we got nerfed / fixed.... then do the same to the tl 3 heal.. thanks
/e
i only use cath sanctum.. and thats when only me is still alive and i try to run or reeze my mates... i dont have place in my qb for a normal anti freeze spell..
.cy
If a person can actually go all out to noob buff you and not get
killed from one of your allies/clanmates then what the hell are
you doing fighting 5-10 people by your PPU lonesome?
If you see a guy healing you, have him killed. Simple as that.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
and we got nerfed / fixed.... then do the same to the tl 3 heal.. thanks
Touche
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i only use cath sanctum.. and thats when only me is still alive and i try to run or reeze my mates.
Yea cath sanctum removes paralyze ever 2-3 seconds, free meal. :p
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
i dont have place in my qb for a normal anti freeze spell..
.cy
Well that's a choice you make. :p
Originally posted by FBI
If a person can actually go all out to noob buff you and not get
killed from one of your allies/clanmates then what the hell are
you doing fighting 5-10 people by your PPU lonesome?
If you see a guy healing you, have him killed. Simple as that.
dude.. in an op war... lets say 15 vs 10...
2 spies running up to me healing me all the time.. stealthing when they get attacked... that happend with a certain clan on pluto .. more than once..
and yes it even happens when its 2 vs 10....
.cy
Originally posted by Arcadius
Well that's a choice you make. :p
true.. all i wanted to say is that i can still heal my mates and i can still play my tank freezed... its not a big deal
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
happend with a certain ts clan on pluto .. more than once..
Careful, you don't want your thread being locked. ;)
Its like rezz killing.... a bit low life but a perfectly legit tactic.
I hate parashock. Completely.
Originally posted by Judge
Its like rezz killing.... a bit low life but a perfectly legit tactic.
I hate parashock. Completely.
no its not the same... imagine i change your cs to a tpc .. or your pa to a dura 3 vest... would you like it ??
my point is the tl 3 heal isnt meant to be used like this !
and when its not meant to be used like this its abusing it... so it needs to get fixed .
and yea arc.. i didnt name them :p
and btw... i hate parashock too...i even tried to make agreements with clans to have fights without para.. but everyone said no ingame.... and here they all complain about parashock...
yes i asked dark too about this.. wierd right ?
.cy
parashock is meant to slow enemies, not kill them. i've seen ppu's use it to kill other runners - that sort of spam is like the example you gave about tl3 heals for those without high PSI levels. ie, you're using paralyze/parashock in a way it wasn't meant to be used by killing people. tl3 heals are for those other than psi monks - they can be used to take up heal time for the ppu while he/she gets debuffed and killed.
this is one of those topics like abortion rights...(sry for the analogy) there are so many arguments for it but any 'solution' would inevitably upset the opposite view.
n00b buffing is just downright lame. Holy antibuff is your tool to bring down a ppu. It's a team game... bring along a l33t APU.
My APU got n00b buffed and that was the end of his day even though I had a PPU sitting right beside me, he was just late with the buffs.
But if you could put better buffs on, it would have been a different story. I'm all for that idea.
Originally posted by tkNukem
parashock is meant to slow enemies, not kill them. i've seen ppu's use it to kill other runners - that sort of spam is like the example you gave about tl3 heals for those without high PSI levels. ie, you're using paralyze/parashock in a way it wasn't meant to be used by killing people. tl3 heals are for those other than psi monks - they can be used to take up heal time for the ppu while he/she gets debuffed and killed.
this is one of those topics like abortion rights...(sry for the analogy) there are so many arguments for it but any 'solution' would inevitably upset the opposite view.
i agree para shouldnt be used to kill runners ( spies you mean :p )
.. i wouldnt have a prob with making para no dmg.. or even remove it ... really not..
but as it is imo para does dmg.. so its meant to do dmg to other runners and kill em after a certain time...
tl 3 heal isnt meant to prevent ppus using their own spells...
its meant to heal or keep other runners alive ...
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
but as it is imo para does dmg.. so its meant to do dmg to other runners and kill em after a certain time...
tl 3 heal isnt meant to prevent ppus using their own spells...
its meant to heal or keep other runners alive ...
.cy
um nope. parashocks are meant to slow down runners. not that i mind the spam, but spamming it and doing damage is a blatant violation of passive psi power.
ppu's not being able to override heals is like not being able to override a melee3 boost with an hc3 boost. you're already buffed - until the buff goes down, nothing else can be used. there is a reason for this.
now maybe a way to fix this is to have a ppu's spell override anything he/she has buffed on his/herself...but for now, tl3 healing the only way to quickly down a running ppu with cath sanct/holy heal sanct...
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
no its not the same... imagine i change your cs to a tpc .. or your pa to a dura 3 vest... would you like it ??
For one thing I'm a PE not a tank. :p
The way in which I meant that it was like Rezzkilling is that you are allowed to cast TL3 heal. You are allowed to cast it on other people. Thus it is a legit tactic. The same argument was put forward to resskilling in an announcement forum thread.
Originally posted by tkNukem
um nope. parashocks are meant to slow down runners. not that i mind the spam, but spamming it and doing damage is a blatant violation of passive psi power.
ppu's not being able to override heals is like not being able to override a melee3 boost with an hc3 boost. you're already buffed - until the buff goes down, nothing else can be used. there is a reason for this.
now maybe a way to fix this is to have a ppu's spell override anything he/she has buffed on his/herself...but for now, tl3 healing the only way to quickly down a running ppu with cath sanct/holy heal sanct...
umm i dont mean that you have to be able to replace a hc 3 buff with mc 3 buff.. i mean for example basic resist 1 with heat 3...or tl 3 heal with holy heal.. spells on the same lvl shouldnt be overwritten..
and yes... ive seen many running ppus on pluto with cath sanctum and holy heal sanctum die... its just a matter of teamwork.. and no .. we never used tl 3 heal :rolleyes:
.cy
Originally posted by Judge
For one thing I'm a PE not a tank. :p
The way in which I meant that it was like Rezzkilling is that you are allowed to cast TL3 heal. You are allowed to cast it on other people. Thus it is a legit tactic. The same argument was put forward to resskilling in an announcement forum thread.
sure you are allowed... but its just not meant to be used like this..
and its compeltely different to resskilling ppl..
.cy
Look I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just saying that KK will probably say the same thing as they said for RezzKilling. Also I'm sure that Rezz and PKing weren't meant to be used in that way.
Thats not meant to be like that and you all know that, so what are we talking about?
Is it also ok to parashock all members with parabolt just to not get freezed by Holy Paralysis? Come on! :o
One last word: FAIRPLAY
Originally posted by mehirc
Thats not meant to be like that and you all know that, so what are we talking about?
Is it also ok to parashock all members with parabolt just to not get freezed by Holy Paralysis? Come on! :o
One last word: FAIRPLAY
exactly thats what i mean...and miss ingame..
.cy
Originally posted by mehirc
One last word: FAIRPLAY
This is Neocron. Not a nice place. People don't fight fairly. :D
Originally posted by mehirc
One last word: FAIRPLAY
Define FAIRPLAY.
Cy, read the ppu nerf threads. Ppus are telling people to use tl3 heal to kill them and claiming it justifies their uber defence. If you want people to stop tl3 healing, then there's going to have to be sacrifices on your end too.
sorry judge and arc but thats just sad...
im gonna read em scikar.. and btw i always wanted all monks to be hybrids ... but hey who cares..
.cy
Alex The Great
25-08-03, 02:35
PPUs should be able to buff over lower tl buffs.
Indeed scikar.... Like parashock. All shock weapons/spells and anti-shock drugs should be removed IMO, they are t3h eeeeeevil
EDIT:
sorry judge and arc but thats just sad...
Erm why? This is a gritty cyberpunk world. You really expect people to fight fairly.o_O
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
sorry judge and arc but thats just sad...
im gonna read em scikar.. and btw i always wanted all monks to be hybrids ... but hey who cares..
.cy
Yeah I never used to like that idea but I think it's the way forward now. Much easier to balance that way, and easier for people to play too.
I rarely do it (more likely to do it to one of the arrogant ppu's who think they're uber because they cap a holy heal and run round screaming 'I'M HARD' than at an OP), and while it is a little low I think it's fair enough. It's not actually that easy to do it and takes some pretty fine timing, as the ppu is more conscious to the heal running out than the aggressor is.
I think im the one that prompted cyclon to make this post, after all he did scream "fucking tl3 exploiter" right b4 he died :rolleyes:
Yeah i think they should fix tl3 heals... but I think capped ppus are 2 strong... still. The only reason i used it on cyclon becuase he showed up with a spy against 7 or 8 pimps at an op and was casually walking around with little fear of dying;
comn a monk should be invinclible against 2 players... not 8!
ok back to the tl3 side... its been around for a long long time, and kk hasnt fixed it. if you dont use it your enemys can. it cant just be a eticit of war question, tl3 can and should b used until kk decides its no longer wanted...
Sorry I should have mentioned: I don't use this at an OP war unless it's a very small fight and we don't have the manpower to take the ppu down. In a large fight I don't tl3 heal because the ppu can be taken down anyway. In a place like Pepper or TG canyon where ppus are literally 100% invincible then I will use every trick I can to kill them.
Originally posted by G.0.D.
I think im the one that prompted cyclon to make this post, after all he did scream "fucking tl3 exploiter" right b4 he died :rolleyes:
Yeah i think they should fix tl3 heals... but I think capped ppus are 2 strong... still. The only reason i used it on cyclon becuase he showed up with a spy against 7 or 8 pimps at an op and was casually walking around with little fear of dying;
comn a monk should be invinclible against 2 players... not 8!
ok back to the tl3 side... its been around for a long long time, and kk hasnt fixed it. if you dont use it your enemys can. it cant just be a eticit of war question, tl3 can and should b used until kk decides its no longer wanted...
god... you saw i was on like 50 hp as you used it on me... i think i had 2 apu monks debuffing me.. i would have died without too...
and you know that..
and how can you know that im invincible to 7 - 8 pimp players ?
i came out and got debuffed in like 10 secs and was down to 50 hp - tl 3 heal - me dead after 30 secs..
and i want KK to realise that it needs to get fixed..
.cy
Originally posted by Judge
Indeed scikar.... Like parashock. All shock weapons/spells and anti-shock drugs should be removed IMO, they are t3h eeeeeevil
EDIT:
Erm why? This is a gritty cyberpunk world. You really expect people to fight fairly.o_O
yes judge... i do...maybe im the last person on pluto.. but i still fight with some kind of honour and fairplay....:rolleyes:
and judge why the hell do you complain about para spells ?
just ask tupac...i asked him a while back if we could have wars without para and TA - dark etc .. everyone said no... so dont complain...
.cy
well if my heal didnt kill u... then theres no problem :rolleyes:
oooh ok ok... but seriusly, when u came there u thought u were invinclible... standing around talking, not moving while you buffed yourself. if you hand run around you most likly would have got away..
Originally posted by G.0.D.
well if my heal didnt kill u... then theres no problem :rolleyes:
oooh ok ok... but seriusly, when u came there u thought u were invinclible... standing around talking, not moving while you buffed yourself. if you hand run around you most likly would have got away..
where did i say i meant especially this situation ?
oh wait i never said it.. you said it
:rolleyes:
.cy
ZoneVortex
25-08-03, 03:17
What's also fun to do post-last patch is cast Psi Combat boost on PPU monks because it decreases their spell's efficiency.
Originally posted by ZoneVortex
What's also fun to do post-last patch is cast Psi Combat boost on PPU monks because it decreases their spell's efficiency.
fun... yea real fun.... :rolleyes:
besides defensiv psi controller 2 & 3 do enough - apu to bring it back to 0 apu....
:rolleyes:
am i really the only one who fights with some kind of honour and fairplay ?
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
am i really the only one who fights with some kind of honour and fairplay ?
.cy
:lol:
Alot of people have different definitions of honour and fairplay.
Originally posted by Arcadius
:lol:
Alot of people have different definitions of honour and fairplay.
omg... im really beginning to dislike this community... :(
.cy
surely you can time your heals so when one goes off the other goes on???
Originally posted by JiNxY
surely you can time your heals so when one goes off the other goes on???
if you have 2 ppl next to you...and they tl 3 heal you all the time... doing nothing else in the whole fight...and maybe 2 other ppl shooting you meanwhile...no you're damn lucky if you can cast one holy heal...:rolleyes:
.cy
ZoneVortex
25-08-03, 03:40
ok, ok, i'll stop being a butt monkey. yeh i think they should fix it.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
omg... im really beginning to dislike this community... :(
.cy
hrmm?
I'm serious. I thought it was dishonorable to play the overpowered hybrid in PvP, you had no problem with that.
etc........
We all have diffferent defintions of fairplay.
oh so only certan sitchewations apply? ... that dosnt make a while lot of sense cyclon...
Yes - TL-3 heal is lame in my opinion, so I don't use it.
But I can see why others might, after they've been Holy Para welded to the floor, then triple damage boosted and had a Soul Cluster set on them.
*shrug*
Besides ... any war these days is all about how many PPUs you can bring to the table. While that is still the case those with a lesser number of PPUs will have to keep using "alternative" tactics.
ok god .. dude... i would have lived longer if you didnt heal me.. but FOR SURE me alone vs more than 2 apus and some tanks and pe's .. i would have died... i didnt give a shit if i die or not i just wanted to say that we only had 2 ppl on cause you didnt check the term b4 you hacked ... like everytime.. maybe once someone will say oh lets check the term b4 we hack.. (part of fairplay :rolleyes: )
and god stop telling ppl you are uber and owned me.. i got 2 dms asking me if its true that someone like you owned me...
define fairplay ?
wtf do you think who i am that i have to explain fairplay to you again and again..i talked to like 50 ppl in nc trying to get some honour in op wars and everytime ppl said that they give a shit on honour or tactic.. some of em really said its just about pure killing ... im so sick of it ffs
and arc wtf is dishonable with playing a hybrid ?? if you think that its dishonorable to play a hybrid why did YOU come to me asking for help with your hybrid setup ?? monks always been hybrids and i always said that they should make all monks hybrids and balance em then.... hell i even told pol and the other NDA ppl that the shelter was bugged... yes it was me and that was the major
hybrid nerf...
.cy
i never said i "owned u" my clan mates said that all by them selves... :D
but im sure they wouldent have if u didnt scream fucking exploiters b4 u died...
dude i got 2 dms from ppl outside your clan asking me if its true...
and if you ask me .. its pretty noobish that you need to tl 3 heal me even when its 7 vs 1... but oh well.. its you...i should have known..
.cy
well i didnt fucking say n e thing other then i tl3ed u and it was funny how u screamed exploiter... i heard about the dms and car told the clan 2 stop rubbing it in
....
:o
Originally posted by G.0.D.
well i didnt fucking say n e thing other then i tl3ed u and it was funny how u screamed exploiter... i heard about the dms and car told the clan 2 stop rubbing it in
....
:o
well maybe you would start thinking about it then... but hey its you... as said.. i should have known.. instead of thinking about it.. you rather say I WIN....:rolleyes:
.cy
... im just going to keep this game, id rather not flame up the forums
Originally posted by G.0.D.
... im just going to keep this game, id rather not flame up the forums
good...
.cy
Ok forgetting about the situations prompting the post and whether it does stop fair play...
A ppu is a master of defensive psi spells, thus he is a master of healing and shielding, so being a master with a weak heal on him dont you think he would be able to increase its power? Seems to make sense to me.
Also on rezzkill, it is allowed atm and i agree with it in certain situations, eg to make enemies who lie about after death gr in situations like mb raids etc, however it was said that although it is allowed they will be implimenting a function of giving the runner a choice to be rezzed, or something along them lines. Personally i dont see how they dont have a choice atm, rezz is so discrete :eek: and it takes so long to select your apt as a gr :rolleyes:
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
and arc wtf is dishonable with playing a hybrid ?? if you think that its dishonorable to play a hybrid why did YOU come to me asking for help with your hybrid setup ??
Wtf is dishonorable about playing a hybrid? Errr, the fact that it's like playing a stormbot. :rolleyes:
When I asked you for help, I was testing out whether or not hybrids were powerful. After finalizing my setup and fighting tons of battles, that's when I came to the conclusion even a skillless person could OWN as a hybrid. THAT"S what's dishonorable about it. Hiding behind an overpowered char and defeating people that way. My aim is horrible, and I still owned with a hybrid. No matter how many times my opponents hit me, sometimes almost every hit, they couldn't kill me. I never died 1v1. Hence hybrid=overpowering and playing hybrid=cheese
But that wasnt' a flame towards you Cyl0n. I'm just pointing out how fairplay can be interpreted differently. Hell i flamed SXR for stealth dropping ENDLESS turrets because I considered that NOT fairplay, but they didn't. You guys said we should check the terminal before taking an op? How far does fairplay go? Knowing the overpowering importance of PPUs in op wars, would I have to make sure both sides have equal ppus? What is the line between fairplay and "cheatorz"?
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
yes judge... i do...maybe im the last person on pluto.. but i still fight with some kind of honour and fairplay....:rolleyes:
If you were a hybrid like arc says then I disagree.
and judge why the hell do you complain about para spells ?
just ask tupac...i asked him a while back if we could have wars without para and TA - dark etc .. everyone said no... so dont complain...
.cy
TA? Dark? I play on saturn. I don't know anything about pluto clans, and pluto isn't the only server.
Why do I hate para..... Hmmm..... Well theres just the fact that it removes almost all the skill from PvP. WHOA you asked two clans and a tank on one isolated server wether or not parashock was right. So they obviosly represent the entire community. :rolleyes:
No offence meant to whoever Tupac, Dark and TA are. Anyway I'm off on holiday for a week so don't expect me to reply to this :p
Originally posted by Arcadius
I never died 1v1.
whaa whaaaat! dont u remember those times in NF when....
umm, lets not talk about that now.
ok, first of all, the tl3 heal thing wont get fixed by KK, end of story.
killing PPUs without APUs is damn hard, so many ppl may resort to that strategy, but if u guys had 2 APUs, both antibuffing, and u still had to use tl3 heal...... thats kinda lame.
and DMing ppl after u killed them is also incredibly lame "OMFG PWND J00!!1!1!"
also cy, i try to fight with honour also, but its damn hard with some of the pricks out there.
Originally posted by Viruz
whaa whaaaat! dont u remember those times in NF when....
umm, lets not talk about that now.
As a hybrid noobeh.
:p
u were testing ur setup and i had just lommed to rifles.. i pwned j00!
Originally posted by Viruz
u were testing ur setup and i had just lommed to rifles.. i pwned j00!
O_o
u wish.
:p
KramerTheWeird
25-08-03, 11:14
TL 3 Heal = Poor Man's Antibuff.
All monks are fucked, I don't consider them balanced, they're too important in this game, so whatever goes. I've said countless times, if a person has a problem with it, well.. abuse@neocron.com and get a GM to put it in perspective.
Wow, lots of rage going on here...
Ok, so before I post, yes I am in Pimp (the clan that made .cylon soo mad), but I wasn't at the fight or whatever happened... so I have no idea.
First of all, this thread isn't about why it happened, but to discuss tl3 as an exploit or not. Or at least it should, but in any case, I think tl3 healing a ppu is legit because it makes one character ineffective by having another character do the same. Both the PPU and the tl3 healer person are vulnerable, so isn't it "fair" to let one character take out another? The advantage is still on the PPU, because he can run around and dodge the heal, as well as only giving the other person a window of maybe 2 seconds before the PPU recasts holy heal, so it's really hard.
TL3 was called the poor man's anti-debuff by Kramer because it is... it's worse and everyone can use it, but it's one of the only ways to kill a PPU without an APU. The only other way is to have something like 6 people shooting, but even then the PPU can live. I've seen something like 10 people trying to kill one PPU who only ran in circles buffing himself, and he lived. Soo.... I think it's right that if you get a group of people together and coordinate a few casting heal and buffs on a ppu while the others shoot, the PPU should die.
Those arguments are killing me :eek:
There is only one spell that is meant to stop someone from healing and thats the Antiheal, and it can be only used by high APUs. It removes the heal immediatly but the victim is able to recast a heal directly afterwards.
If a TL3 Spell that nearly everybody is able to use, obviously does have the same effect as the Antiheal and even better cause it blocks recasts for several seconds, you really dont think something is wrong??? o_O
There is nothing that justifies the abuse of a bug and that is one for sure, even if KK does not officially announce and forbid that. If you are well-educated, you should know what's right or wrong without someone telling you that. But if you like to act the fool...
Lord Mansion
25-08-03, 12:41
People without skills do the following:
- They spam Holy Paralysis
- They use the TL 3 heal trick
Now lets fix it for god sake.
no, the tl3 heal isnt as good as anti heal because anti heal works at any time, while the tl3 heal has to be cast in a small time frame in which the ppu isnt healing himself.
And it isn't a bug, it's a creative use of a spell, beyond its original intentions, like rezkilling or using melee 3 to boost hit points and run speed on PPU monks, although it was intended for melee classes.
edit: now that i think of it, antiheal + tl3 heal would be a good combo, but hard to pull off
i was in pp1 last week with my capped pe (shooting him with an explosive liberator /damage capped/RoF 340), fighting a ppu. but i was unable to kill him cause he outhealed me each time. when i saw his buff wore off i quickly casted my own deflector/heal on him so i had some time to shoot him.. and it worked.. so imo its only a tactic of killing a ppu, since there arent many other ways of doing this cause a ppu with capped holy heal + holy deflector is pretty hard to kill these days.
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
but then change the ppus really .. this "trick" is just cheap and you die no matter how skilled or good you are.. you just cant do anything
.cy
Sounds kinda siimilar to the effect of a holy paralysis dont it?
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
no its not the same... imagine i change your cs to a tpc .. or your pa to a dura 3 vest... would you like it ??
I beg to differ (again :p )
Pop up your Shelters and a damage boost the opponent and you have effectively did exactly that.
More accurate would be reducing CS to the effectiveness of an unlabeled plasma on a grim chaser O_o
Hmm, its not a true "change CS to TPC", its more a, Change a Pain Easer into a Mendicant Assault Rifle, that is the TL drop.
Put into perspective, a PE uses heal on a PE/Spy/Tank/APU, its "heal them nice" a PE uses a heal on a PPU, its to "kill them quickly".
The heal is part of the PPU's defence, it doesnt make the PPU invulnerable, I remember at CRP, Tanus telling me he hated me coz I shot him up with my pain easer.
The argument "if two people are next to you spamming you with heal's, get them killed" might be valid, except the PPU now has to concentrate harder on timing his/her heal's, its actually a counting trick too, heal, count to 13, or 14, click, heal should kick in just as the old wears out, but, the PPU cant exactly do anything whilst being spammed with heals. They can parashock the spy's/pe's and run away, but then people bitch about parashocks.
In an ideal world, using a better product would give better results, casting Holy Heal would override Tl3 Heal, but its not an ideal world, and people will use any advantage they can take, from TL 3 heals, to standing in/on box's, to god knows what, anything they can do to try to give them an edge.
In the old days, PE's would cast PSI Shield on Hybrids, was one of the only way's to kill them, KK changed it, now its TL 3 heals, if KK change that, people will figure new ways to beat monk's other than "hit them a few times in the head with a pain easer or a baseball bat" its all relative.
ghandisfury
25-08-03, 15:37
Originally posted by Arcadius
Wtf is dishonorable about playing a hybrid? Errr, the fact that it's like playing a stormbot. :rolleyes:
When I asked you for help, I was testing out whether or not hybrids were powerful. After finalizing my setup and fighting tons of battles, that's when I came to the conclusion even a skillless person could OWN as a hybrid. THAT"S what's dishonorable about it. Hiding behind an overpowered char and defeating people that way. My aim is horrible, and I still owned with a hybrid. No matter how many times my opponents hit me, sometimes almost every hit, they couldn't kill me. I never died 1v1. Hence hybrid=overpowering and playing hybrid=cheese
But that wasnt' a flame towards you Cyl0n. I'm just pointing out how fairplay can be interpreted differently. Hell i flamed SXR for stealth dropping ENDLESS turrets because I considered that NOT fairplay, but they didn't. You guys said we should check the terminal before taking an op? How far does fairplay go? Knowing the overpowering importance of PPUs in op wars, would I have to make sure both sides have equal ppus? What is the line between fairplay and "cheatorz"?
Arc, you keep saying that the importance of a PPU is far to great....when I think it's quite the opposite at the moment. I believe that you are the part of the minority who will speek honestly on the subject....so here is my argument.
Currently an APU can cast holy antibuff 3 times faster than resurect with 10 points less in aggresive use. Lets go further than that. An APU can cast holy antibuff which will strip 3 (life and death) spells from me faster than I can cast them back. Meaning they can cast in 2.5 seconds what it takes 3.8 seconds to recast (this is not taking into account movement from spell to spell). The mechanics in this (imo) are completely out of whack. It should take just as long as holy res, if not longer....and it should have right about the same range.
Let me put it like this. Which is better, a team of 5 PPUs and 5 APUs, or a team of 2 PPUs and 8 APUs? You know the answer....the more APUs you have, the more you can debuff and attack. Your role in an OP war, or basically anywhere is much more important than a PPUs. Your "supporter" role is more fun, and more balanced. You can attack, and debuff. A PPU....can buff? and has no recourse to your attacks.....and god forbid we try to ressurect because while we are not even half done with the time of ressurect we are debuffed and attacked.
Our supporter role has no recourse to attacks (aside from holy para, but you know my oppinion on that). They need to balance the APU/PPU supporter role to a point that both are equal, and the best man wins....not the guy who can attack wins every time. PPUs need to be boosted a bit, and spells need to be as fast as the counters for those spells (imo).
Anyway, TL3 heal isn't that big of a deal when they remove parashock....All the classes will find a way to kill the monk....this is just the easiest way right now. PPU monks are a dying breed, maybe this is the way it should be......then again, maybe alot of people are making a big mistake.
Q`alooaith
25-08-03, 16:31
Why do you think APU's have an anti heal, it does not stop the heal going right back up, so it's use must be to debuff so that a less effectvite heal can be used..
Don't you see, it makes perfect sence now, all these anti heal's, deflectors and sheilds, they are intended to be used to you can gimp buff the PPU.
Ok... reading this thread just makes me sad..
Anyway i see once again why im gonna quit this game soon...
This community is crap.
You can do what you want ppl always come with lame excuses for their lameness in tactics.. and different kinds of "honour" in op wars...:rolleyes:
I see some ppl in this thread really need this kind of playing to win... without any skills ( you know who you are ...)..i give up one more time..
Maybe when ppl see my clan in op wars playing with fairplay... some will start to think about what they do..
could a mod close it please ?
thanks...
.cy
I think its Dirty but fair...... like throwing sand in someone's eyes.....
I think its awesome.
Its bothered me from the first day I installed this game that low level spells can't be overwritten by high level spells.
Like, I cast a Spy Booster 1 on myself to poke someone. Suddenly I'm needed to hack an OP, where a SB3 would come in handy. Now I gotta wait for the first one to wear off. Same with the Resist Booster not wearing off so I can get a Hazard Booster.
It took weeks of carnage at the MB for KK to do anything about EON.
If it takes weeks of whining PPU's to get this fixed too, I'll deal with it.
BlackPrince
25-08-03, 16:43
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
Ok... reading this thread just makes me sad..
Anyway i see once again why im gonna quit this game soon...
This community is crap.
You can do what you want ppl always come with lame excuses for their lameness in tactics.. and different kinds of "honour" in op wars...:rolleyes:
I see some ppl in this thread really need this kind of playing to win... without any skills ( you know who you are ...)..i give up one more time..
Maybe when ppl see my clan in op wars playing with fairplay... some will start to think about what they do..
could a mod close it please ?
thanks...
.cy
Funny coming from you who sits there and goes on about how ppl are n00bs and he's unkillable blah blah blah.
Stop being a hyprocrite, its only 'lame' when you don't like it man.
Originally posted by BlackPrince
Funny coming from you who sits there and goes on about how ppl are n00bs and he's unkillable blah blah blah.
Stop being a hyprocrite, its only 'lame' when you don't like it man.
where did i say ppl are n00bs ?
how am i unkillable ?
get your facts right
kthanksbye
.cy
Originally posted by Judge
If you were a hybrid like arc says then I disagree.
TA? Dark? I play on saturn. I don't know anything about pluto clans, and pluto isn't the only server.
No offence meant to whoever Tupac, Dark and TA are. Anyway I'm off on holiday for a week so don't expect me to reply to this :p
oh sorry.. i know a pluto tank called judge and he's in dark ... and tupac is one of their leader.. heh sorry i thought its you :p
and dude i asked the leaders and members of the 4 biggest clans we were at war with... so no its not just some random ppl i asked...and all of em said no but they still bitch on the forum.. :rolleyes:
.cy
The APU antibuff spell suxxors why does it have lower cast time then ppu monk buffing thats just lame.... and what would it hurt if it was 50/min ? You cant debuff all the time hey 259 psi is ALOT for a pure APU and its rare just make it worth to use it.....
Rather have holy anti shield on me instead of holy antibuff full capped 120% thats hmm lame? Or more a lame KK move...
Aaaaaah I know =P
Make the Holy antibuff stay on for hmm 1 - 3 s or so now the PPU cant recast all buffs in notime.
Becasue now its just silly to cast it BOM shelter BOOM holy heal MOHAHHAHA I cant die.....
Its sad to se the power of a PPU they cant die "if they can handle them"
Originally posted by t0tt3
Aaaaaah I know =P
Make the Holy antibuff stay on for hmm 1 - 3 s or so now the PPU cant recast all buffs in notime.
Becasue now its just silly to cast it BOM shelter BOOM holy heal MOHAHHAHA I cant die.....
Its sad to se the power of a PPU they cant die "if they can handle them"
thats a good idea... make me able to override low tl buffs and you can debuff me for 3 secs... would be cool
.cy
Originally posted by .Cyl0n
Ok... reading this thread just makes me sad..
Anyway i see once again why im gonna quit this game soon...
This community is crap.
You can do what you want ppl always come with lame excuses for their lameness in tactics.. and different kinds of "honour" in op wars...:rolleyes:
I see some ppl in this thread really need this kind of playing to win... without any skills ( you know who you are ...)..i give up one more time..
Maybe when ppl see my clan in op wars playing with fairplay... some will start to think about what they do..
could a mod close it please ?
thanks...
.cy
no offence, but capped ppu's are almost impossible to kill, ok imo they _should_ be hard to kill cause they are pure defense but hey, i got killed by a ppu with a tar recently O_o i didnt even stood a chance, each time i finally started to do some damage he reshielded +healed and he was rdy for combat again. if you want to kill a ppu then you need to use tactics, in fact it has the same effect as anti-heal or anti-buff, so its not that "nasty"
ooh and btw, dont whine that the community sux cause that just aint true. i lost my sf chip due to a bug recently, and kk only wanted to refund 100k. with the help of my clanmates i got a new one in about a day...
not being god doesnt mean this game aint any fun, and if you cant take it dieing, then go play lego island :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Al3X
no offence, but capped ppu's are almost impossible to kill, ok imo they _should_ be hard to kill cause they are pure defense but hey, i got killed by a ppu with a tar recently O_o i didnt even stood a chance, each time i finally started to do some damage he reshielded +healed and he was rdy for combat again. if you want to kill a ppu then you need to use tactics, in fact it has the same effect as anti-heal or anti-buff, so its not that "nasty"
ooh and btw, dont whine that the community sux cause that just aint true. i lost my sf chip due to a bug recently, and kk only wanted to refund 100k. with the help of my clanmates i got a new one in about a day...
not being god doesnt mean this game aint any fun, and if you cant take it dieing, then go play lego island :rolleyes:
omg i dont have a prob dieing.. it just makes me sick how some ppl are talking about fairplay and how they fight....and that you cant kill a ppu alone...get an apu and he's dead...dont whine that you cant kill an ppu alone as a tank... if a tank could solo a ppu there would be no point in playing a ppu
and btw... i play a tank too.....ok ? :rolleyes:
.cy
SigmaDraconis
25-08-03, 17:28
die bitch die? o.0
is this any worse then Freaky Fryd casting his resist/RC1 on every DarK he sees in plaza?..............
TL3 is as someone sed the poor mans anti-buff...I think it should be usable, but i wouldnt complain about KK adding a TL1-2-3 spell that removes all self buffs or heals...or maybe just a specific type of buff (sheilds/heals/boosters)
I'm extremely sorry your class has a weakness, really I am. What, don't you think im being sincere? o.0 sed
Closed at thread starter's request.
N
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