Do you believe ppus are too important, or other classes aren't important enough?

[Arcadius]

Some people(like me) feel the ppu is too important. Other people think the ppu is important, but that's not the problem. THey feel that other classes should be important too.



So do you feel the other classes need roles as large as the ppu? Or that the ppu's role should be toned down?


Just to remind you, i'm in favor of other classes having roles as important as TEH ppu, but alot people might not like that.

They might think it restricts freedom changing it from NEEDING one class to NEEDING every class.


hax pax

[Psycho_Soldier]

I was wondering just now... What would OP battles be like if the PPU's had the same defense they do now but only be able to do basic buffs like Haz3, HC3, Spy3, etc... and only heals and holy rez with maybe all the rare sanctums and get rid of deflector and shelter sanctum.

[{MD}GeistDamnit]

I believe both. shoulda made it an option

[Arcadius]

Originally posted by {MD}GeistDamnit
I believe both. shoulda made it an option


shoot.


:(



Can a mod add a "I believe ppus should be toned down AND other classes roles brought up" option? Please? :D

[guywithnoears]

I voted for "I believe everything is just fine.".


why?

because they do what they're supposed to do--provide support and keep you alive--hence why they're that important. as for other races needing boosts in their roles...life works just like it, some people just have better roles.

[Arcadius]

EDIT:nevermind..........

[ZigZag]

Arc u have been long enough on these boards to know what these threads will lead to.

But just remember - when ppu's have been nerfed - itll be the APU's turn.

then ull be leveling ur noob spy with no ppu's in the caves either

[IronMonkey]

yep zigzag i totally agree. People dont understand what they are doing when they do it. And yes once the ppu has been nerfed and it will becasue of all the crap epople ahve been posting on their forum. The apu will be next. Because those buffs are the only thign stoppign an apu from owning all.

[JustIn_Case]

All classes are already important at an OP takeover....
Except the PPUs, the following classes has these functions in OP warfare.....

SPIES are needed for:
- Scouting (Drone/Stealth)
- Hacking
- Medic support (Implanting)
- Sniping
(- Combat)

TANKS are needed for:
- Combat

PE are needed for:
- Combat
- Scouting (Stealth)
- Hacking
- Medic support (Implanting)
- Sniping

APU are needed for:
- Combat:
- PPU Killer (Debuff/Poison)

[cracky]

A clan of all apus and ppus would be just fine just get some monks that can hack and some that can poke, now nobody else is needed.

[Archeus]

OMG a second PPU thread! I must be late for work.

[Cyphor]

if anything has to be done boost the other classes, nerfing is wrong and one nerf will just lead to more nerfs later on.

[bounty]

Originally posted by cracky
A clan of all apus and ppus would be just fine just get some monks that can hack and some that can poke, now nobody else is needed.

excellent point and arguement.

[JustIn_Case]

Originally posted by cracky
A clan of all apus and ppus would be just fine just get some monks that can hack and some that can poke, now nobody else is needed.

A Clan with just Tanks and PPUs would be fine to....
(Though stealthers and/or Droners are good to planning the attack)

But you have a good point..so here is one suggestion...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont nerf the Defensive/Supportive powers of the PPU, it would completly ruin the only fun for PPU.
Instead make hacking and remote poking an SPY/PE trade only, then you have raised their importance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

This would piss of many Monks (me included) but i would hate
an nerf in the PSI trade even more....

[cracky]

Well I don't think that fix would do it. I mean all it would mean is that clan would need to have 3 alt spys that are leveled up just enough to hack and they switch back to their monk after the level is hacked.

It helps spy importance a little but still monks are the only ones really needed.

[zanzan]

so lets make a NEED for other classes without nerfing the monks...

[Drake6k]

Apu and ppu monks play a major role in pvp. (you cant play without them) I want my pistol PE to have a major role!! Right now I'm good alone with self buffs. (still cant kill best tanks) But in teams a tank with buffs is just much better and I'm unimportant.

[Original monk]

the role of PPU is good as it is, dont start changing it again, the shelter allready got nerfed, what ya want next ? yeah i know, ya want shelter out of the game, deflector out of the game and a paralysis outta tha game, next the ppu dissapears, yust like the hybrid, i hate all this MONK-bitchin, and dont say its all constructive lol, them PE's and spy's always whining to nerf the monks, if ya wonna be as good as a monk dont choose a PE cause a PE sucks at every skill (they never can use anything good cause ya need to be specialized to use sumthing ya do good damage with)

now dont start dissin he, onlything i mean by this is that instead of nerfing monks ya better boost the others ;)

[Original monk]

Originally posted by zanzan
so lets make a NEED for other classes without nerfing the monks...

This is what i mean, i completely agree with ya zanzan

[deac]

monks right now are fine.... if there is going to be changes to them then it better be the removal of all monks..

Give tanks better armour

Give pes more some hackboost/pa/slight dmg boost

Spys are mostly fine... /maybe let their pa make em run a LOT faster. oh yea maybe give em inq1 or inq½

[Judge]

Leave monks alone now.... us PEs need more of a boost :D

[greendonkeyuk]

Tanks are fine.
Monks are fine.

Pes and spies have no role at the moment on the battlefield. Except perhaps to drive the others to the fight, but then monks can do that too. Once they got capped runspeed they still have a bunch of points left for something else.... recycling/driving etc.....

Spies and pes are there to add variation only it seems.... or for the players wielding them to have a challenge. For spies and pes to have any advantage they need to have the clipping plane removed. The rifle users need to have some PROPER range to use rifles from.

A couple of silent hunters and pain easers to snipe at long range whilst the rest of the force move in to close combat provides good covering fire. at least it could do if they could be used at proper range, the spies can stealth and move position harassing the flanks. pistol pes....... ought to be close range killers, light fast attack causing mayhem in the flanks with the tanks soakin up the beatings at the front......

Removing those HUGE walls or allowing people to shoot through them would help tremendously and it cant be a massive job to do this, hell they could just do an mc5 job on it! :D

[Lucjan]

Originally posted by cracky
A clan of all apus and ppus would be just fine just get some monks that can hack and some that can poke, now nobody else is needed.

As long as this quote is valid, all the "<insert class here> are fine" arguments just arent true.

greendonkeyuk, monks and tanks aren't "fine". They never will be fine as long as there are no countermeasures available for all classes. An APU can work against PPU, a tank or PE can't. What is fine about it?

Boosting other classes is for sure a better solution then nerfing one class. But then, boosting other classes has a much higher chance to debalance the game more and it is more complicated. Guess what route KK would choose...

[hinch]

solution is simple nerf ppu`s and apus and ressurect the hybrid then you have multirole combat fighter.

being hybrid removes all chance of any tradeskills like imping or hacking etc and immediatly makes spys and pe`s viable and very important as they can be ppu`d by the hybrids and are required for the hack

+ a hybrid vs a hybrid both with antishelter becomes exactly the same as a apu killing a ppu

you play both rolls but AT THE SAME TIME

[Duder]

PE are needed for:

- Combat
- Scouting (Stealth)
- Hacking
- Medic support (Implanting)
- Sniping


- Combat = Apus
- Scouting = Spies
- Hacking = Spies
- Medic Support = PPUs, Spies to poke if you dont have PPU ressing your sorry ass
- Sniping = Spies, not like you can snipe anyway, Sniping is just annoying, youre not gonna do anything to a group with a ppu monk anyways, so just stealth away and wait for your APU and PPU monks take care of everything, Monks only need you for hacking....

Tanks have no use in a battlefield, so do PEs, in other words they are CANNONFODDER. ITS FUCKING FUN PLAYING MEATSHIELD.

Only thing why a PE is a little better then Tanks is because they can Hack Ops ....if they get Spy 3....FROM A PPU. WOOO.

[hinch]

can do it without spy 3 :) a pe if using pistols only needs 40 wpl :rolleyes:

[Voodoochicken]

I still think that all boost spells should be removed/ replaced, because they unbalance the basic skill system.


ie..there should be no haz resist 3s... no drone/pistol combat 3, etc.


These spells that add ridiculous amounts to subskills should be replaced by spells that add to SKILL lvl (and perhaps add < 6 to a subskill)

ie.. have spells that add +1/+3/+5 to DEX/INT/CON/PSI/STR and a max of +5 to a subskill.


eg.. Instead of adding +20 HLT, +30 XRR, +30 POR you might have:

Resist Booster 3: +5 CON, +5 X-ray resist, +5 poison resist.

(The same spell could also add +5 to the other resist subskills.)

ie. Resist Booster 3: +5 CON, +5 XRR, +5 POR, +5 FIR, +5 ENR, +5 Force resist.


Maybe you think I'm being unfair/stupid, etc.. but try to think how the boost spells affect each class/ the game.

Adding to the SKILL lvl would make the game more interesting, imo.

An extra advantage would be that PPUs wouldn't have to carry as many spells.

[ghandisfury]

Don't pick on the PPUs, pick on the apu/ppu......it's not the PPUs that are too important, it's the monks in general. It takes a monk to kill a monk. Fix the other classes........and for god sakes


GET RID OF PARASHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LTA]

i was going to vote... but to me these days it seems a wasted effort.

Yes ppus arre to important, i would never goto a op fight without one even tho i am now 1, i believe my abilities turn battles, my paralysis changes outcomes, my shelters change outcomes, my ability to heal and res changes the outcomes.... everyone else has one thing.... try and kill the other ppl who have all these things on them.....

I trurly believe its a battle of the ppus these days, the team with the highest skilled ppu will normally win..... takes a highly skilled apu these days to alter that o_O

[Duder]

Originally posted by hinch
can do it without spy 3 :) a pe if using pistols only needs 40 wpl :rolleyes:


Youre kidding right? Do you know how slow aim is on pistols...?

.....because of the stupid "more range, faster lock" feature, a pistol with low Range is the suck. Its not like a monk, where as soon as your target is at your aim, you can shoot and hit him...a lib you have to wait at least 5 sec to achieve full aim, 5 sec is oh soo fast...of course if youre tech, the blacksun has at least 150m range, the lock is faster...

Soo...

Weaponlore = More Range

More Range = Faster Aim lock

Faster Aim Lock = Able to shoot that apu, after you got 5 poison stacks and being eaten by his Holy Lightning.

[hinch]

yup im well aware of it i do have a pistol pe and a pistol spy.

after many many hours of testing between 10 of us on jupiter we concluded that wpl makes FUCK ALL difference to pistols as with cannons its not vital though with cannons it makes a more notiable difference than with pistols

after 40 wpl the benefits are neglegiable.

aiming is more reliant on p-c and weapon stats that anything else my libby aims almost instantly

[Arcadius]

Originally posted by deac
monks right now are fine.... if there is going to be changes to them then it better be the removal of all monks..

Give tanks better armour

Give pes more some hackboost/pa/slight dmg boost

Spys are mostly fine... /maybe let their pa make em run a LOT faster. oh yea maybe give em inq1 or inq½


huh? This won't make them more needed in combat. You're just making them stronger defensively or offensively. People need to open their minds a little and realize that sometimes a class needs a boost other than "more armor or damage plz THX".




Originally posted by Lucjan
As long as this quote is valid, all the "<insert class here> are fine" arguments just arent true.

greendonkeyuk, monks and tanks aren't "fine". They never will be fine as long as there are no countermeasures available for all classes. An APU can work against PPU, a tank or PE can't. What is fine about it?

Boosting other classes is for sure a better solution then nerfing one class. But then, boosting other classes has a much higher chance to debalance the game more and it is more complicated. Guess what route KK would choose...


First time I completely agree with you.





Originally posted by LTA

I trurly believe its a battle of the ppus these days, the team with the highest skilled ppu will normally win..... takes a highly skilled apu these days to alter that o_O


Yup you're right.

[SigmaDraconis]

Originally posted by JustIn_Case
All classes are already important at an OP takeover....
Except the PPUs, the following classes has these functions in OP warfare.....

SPIES are needed for:
- Scouting (Drone/Stealth)
- Hacking
- Medic support (Implanting)
- Sniping
(- Combat)

TANKS are needed for:
- Combat

PE are needed for:
- Combat
- Scouting (Stealth)
- Hacking
- Medic support (Implanting)
- Sniping

APU are needed for:
- Combat:
- PPU Killer (Debuff/Poison)

While well thought out and for the most part accurate...I have to disagree...

Tanks are completely obsolete in an OP war..why, well an APU does alot more damage..and with a PPU can receive just as much (thanks to holy heal and the straight damage blocking % of sheilds)

Tanks are good for solo players and duelists...

Spy is all but useless....they work behind the lines as tradeskillers really..as a PE can do everything they can..hack poke and snipe...Spy is slightly superior in the sniping role because of drones and higher TL rifles, but a PE has more survivability making him more effective at times..

APU obviously..primary damage dealer and anti-buffer.....

PPU keeps everyone alive, not to mention their passive aggressive spells such as DB and para....single handedly THE MOST important player...