View Full Version : NC is no longer the same game as the one i bought
And i know this applies to many of you.
Since the end of beta 4 and the initial purchase of the retail version NC has changed that dramatically that it is no longer the same game.
Now im not on about bug fixes or added content i mean complete structure changes and fundemental changes about the way the game is.
After reading the manual that came with the game again.
After reading the back of the box and the online history again.
NC is now more like NC 1.5 or something. There has been some fundemental changes to the way the game is played and how it operates and most of them are for the worse.
When I first started and our clan got our first capped tank there was no "must have a cs to be good" it was simply a 2 slotted tpc and they owned in pa 2 now its all changed.
Genereps have changed
Mob damage is STILL unrealistic after all the time there was supposed to be a little increase in mob damage they more than doubled it.
monk nerfs
trade skillers nerfs
Soul light nerfs
drop rate nerfs.
Now the majority of the game consisits of you running 20 zones to get to a lvling point :rolleyes: and then recovering your backpack from the genrep in plaza 1
NC now is a 99% different game to what it was when it first hit retail some things are for the better and alot of things are for the worse. Its no longer the game i bought to play its no longer tha game many people bought to play we are being forced to specialise in areas we dont want to.
Most of you know my thoughts on monks hybrids were the only reason i played and kept playing. I nearly quit but QD convinced me about pistols :) now the one last interesting character i have left is stuck in their appt on stupid -ve sl due to the soul light nerfs in the last patch.
Now i know im not alone in thinking this either as alot of long standing players are having the same thoughts it just ISNT the same game at all and it IS alot less fun now than it was. The fun may get increased if server pops hit 1000+ 24/7 but tbh i dont see that happening anytime soon. i think perhaps its about time they merged some servers just to give us a bigger playing base for us to have conflicts etc. (perhaps saturn and uranus)
Would you like some cheese with your whine ? :rolleyes:
Maybe the game for you is not as much fun. I, for example, am having more fun then ever :)
I guess there are gonna be some that are having fun, others will disagree and say it blows now - KK are NEVER gonna be able to satisfy everyone.
"Deal with it" is a phrase that springs to mind. :)
HYBRID MONK NERFS + W1N
I had a good fight with ra on pluto yesterday, he wasnt expecting me to use a X-ray wyatt and a poison belt so i could do the most damage to him while protecting myself from the uber poison, I counted on him being suprised by the damage I was doing to him and not changing to Holy Lightening and tearing me a new arse hole.
FLASH BACK 1 MONTH
I see ra or any other hybrid lvl 50+. Die monket.... ZAP... gene-rep. I didnt stand a chance, no amount of thinking or planing on my part could counter the damage he dealt me compared to mine againist him.
I've not agreed with every change KK have made but the last 4/5 patches have fixed and balanced alot more than they broke.
[edit]The figth ended in a draw when ra zoned into a cellar and with poison taking its toll there was no way I was following him :)
not saying im not enjoying it when i can get back outta my appt the current char is ace fun.
problem is the game is completely different to what it was when it was released its only the same in looks the workings of it and how it plays is completely different
But is that a bad thing? Yes soul light doe limit the violence in certain places and is maybe more carebear-ish than Neocron should be but PP battles still rage.
Also rather than crying doom, why not get pen to paper, write how you'd like to see SL improved (taking into account some of the changes DOY will make). The post a poll, if its gets enough reaction the devs might take note.
Having a whinge on the forums wont do anythign to change how the games played.
1 more thing, when the populations do hit 1000+ at peak times and the forums are 10 times busier (crosses fingers and hopes DOY brings this to pass) then all our thoughts and concerns are going to be drowned out.
If people have been thinking about ideas to improve Neocron now is the time to get them on the forums.
MortuusLupus
20-08-03, 12:50
most online games do have a little disclaimer saying "Experience may change during online play."
nc never been better.....
Neocron changed, it really changed. But I have to admit I like most of the changes and those I dont like that much I can still live with.
The only change I have problems with was the point that hooked me up on NC: a MMORPG that was about single characters not teams. Now NC turns more and more into the direction of other MMORPGs, where you need to team to achieve something. I really liked it more the old way.
There were too much changes KK didnt release in beta, because the ideas were simply stupid.... closing up genreps was 4 months before planned even.
hinch is completly right... i played this game, because it was fun, now only op fights which are like 20 vs 30 still fun.
And there was more changes.... raygun was nerfed
shotgun, flamer, EPR, Pain Easer, the caps from Spy was changed quickbelts (Hey, when i kill my enemy i want his gun and not his hackable quickbelt o_O ), VHC drive without FPS(hey i liked my wheeler with 250 fps)
Some things are good some things are worse....
8-10 moths ago u were able to do effective PvP with every gun....
yup xantor i remember going into battle using a psi attack 2 and shop bought blessed shelters and actually being able to kill stuff yeah i still died but it was fun
i remember tanks going into battles using unlabled gat cannons for their fire rate etc.
the combination of alot of the changes since january have lead to an nc which is now only really fun in big battles. I used to be shit scared to wander around the wastes solo now im not even on a non capped pe im quite happy
ok some mobs do insane damage which they shouldnt actaully be doing (lo doy bots and y commanders) but you can always avoid them some how.
Promethius
20-08-03, 13:11
Originally posted by hinch
And i know this applies to many of you.
Since the end of beta 4 and the initial purchase of the retail version NC has changed that dramatically that it is no longer the same game.
Now im not on about bug fixes or added content i mean complete structure changes and fundemental changes about the way the game is.
After reading the manual that came with the game again.
After reading the back of the box and the online history again.
NC is now more like NC 1.5 or something. There has been some fundemental changes to the way the game is played and how it operates and most of them are for the worse.
When I first started and our clan got our first capped tank there was no "must have a cs to be good" it was simply a 2 slotted tpc and they owned in pa 2 now its all changed.
Genereps have changed
Mob damage is STILL unrealistic after all the time there was supposed to be a little increase in mob damage they more than doubled it.
monk nerfs
trade skillers nerfs
Soul light nerfs
drop rate nerfs.
Now the majority of the game consisits of you running 20 zones to get to a lvling point :rolleyes: and then recovering your backpack from the genrep in plaza 1
NC now is a 99% different game to what it was when it first hit retail some things are for the better and alot of things are for the worse. Its no longer the game i bought to play its no longer tha game many people bought to play we are being forced to specialise in areas we dont want to.
Most of you know my thoughts on monks hybrids were the only reason i played and kept playing. I nearly quit but QD convinced me about pistols :) now the one last interesting character i have left is stuck in their appt on stupid -ve sl due to the soul light nerfs in the last patch.
Now i know im not alone in thinking this either as alot of long standing players are having the same thoughts it just ISNT the same game at all and it IS alot less fun now than it was. The fun may get increased if server pops hit 1000+ 24/7 but tbh i dont see that happening anytime soon. i think perhaps its about time they merged some servers just to give us a bigger playing base for us to have conflicts etc. (perhaps saturn and uranus)
I agree. The game has changed drasticaly from the beginning. But whats your point?
The need for a higher population is def needed....but if we merged servers it will proly cause alot of problems (i.e. cahrs/appartments...etc....also who would own the OPs...or would they just be reset to no one). Also can the servers take a big population as in 600+ ? I kno they SAY they can but with all the problems in the past...
Sure we could whine and whine and whine to make kk change back to "old days" but I for sure would hate it. The game is shaping up to finally be ready for more players. Which hopefully will come with a new publisher. And the demand to have a publisher release the game again with massive commercial coverage everywhere is bigger than ever. (dont wait until december to get those christmas shopping parents to hand out cc to their kids)
Original monk
20-08-03, 13:33
i completely agree with hinch, lots have changed since beta4 wich is normal cause games are intended to grow and change, but not all changes are good... some may like this other may like other changes but the fact stays its not 100% ready yet.
few examples:
hybrids: a hybrid was my fist char in beta4, i love playing em, why did they had to go ? cause of some spy's and PE's whinin? thats sad, i know they where overpowered a bit but common -30% on each side apu/ppu ! thats rapage to dead.
pistols: let them have (good) pistols, atleast they got sumthing then, the liberatortime was cool ya know, ok ya got PKed once in a while, but the STARKES-time was pretty fun actually :P
genreps: suckie suckie, walkin 10 zones filled with DoYbots to go to a place to level to get killed by 19 DoYbots when ya finally reached the graves, im sorry this sucks, it would of been a good system when the OP's are divided equally but with 80% ND genreps everything is closed as hell to me :/ continuesly, get vehiculeskills? --> no way lommin again :/ no way vehiculecrashes again :/ no way waitin half an hour on a vehicule wich is wrecked by some wannabe PK when it comes back :/
THIS GENREP SHIT is YUST DRAINING MY TIME, i yust wonna level i dont wonna walk over those 10 zones again and again and again ...
rares: this raresstuff is shite, the onces that have the most rareparts are the onces that went harvesting like crazy when there where doubledrops (shaman dropped like 7 parts each time this makes about a 100 techs, even more in an hour, played smoothly) also try to get the part ya want with the pool that contains like 4541 diffrent parts :/ i regularly think about the fact that when ya come here as a newbie how the heck do ya ever gonna get a rare :/ (i mean a decent rare)
mc5-chips: fucked up alot (so did the rareparts also, remember the no-rares time ?), things changed alot when them commander came: only the ones that went to go early have mc5 chips now (lots of shit happend with the commin of mc5, people called exploiters for usin barrels in there or indeed the climb up somewhere where ya dont get hit etc, all that mess), please make a decent mc5 and please put a neutral genrep somewhere in the area (and by decent i dont mean take the stupid glass out)
mc5 newbie area: LOL no response , enough said allready (it sucks)
Bugs: still there, lost appartmentscabinets several times on saturn, happend in beta also but we where warned, now they yust roll back a day, result, a day levelin, huntin, trading: gone
and all the small bugs that makes youre life miserable like synchronising, but these are improved aloooot since beta i must say honestly.
nerfs: never seen so much nerfs in my life, where are the boosts ?? and i dont mean that libby-boost :/
events: wich events ? (lately its going better i must admit, but wath about the previous 9 months lol)
mobs: not alot new mobs, caves etc, lots of promises, nothing happening
spy PA and DoY: are ya guys kiddin me, first hypin them all over the place and lots of promises, but i still dont see one PA or one DoY city (i mean a full one, not an entrance)
tanks: first KK's favorite but as soon as my tank reached 3 stars they got nerfed all over (bye bye nice 3 stars) still the same old sucky weapons, give us some new stuff please
and lots lots lots more where that came from, dont see this as a bitch thread see this as a global evaluation since beta4, these are the things that i see changed in a bad way, altough indeed lots of stuff improved and we got nice new weapons and goodies, also the support/helpdesk and service improved alot but it will take another thread to sum up all the good changes :P im hungry and have my brake in a second so cu laterz and have fun, comments appreciated as long their no bitching cause then i will kick ya in the nuts :angel: also most have been said allready but i still wanted to point out some stuff in particular, 100% sure more to follow about the "neocron has been changed" subject
Original monk
20-08-03, 13:37
Originally posted by CarniFlex
Sure we could whine and whine and whine to make kk change back to "old days" but I for sure would hate it. The game is shaping up to finally be ready for more players. Which hopefully will come with a new publisher. And the demand to have a publisher release the game again with massive commercial coverage everywhere is bigger than ever. (dont wait until december to get those christmas shopping parents to hand out cc to their kids)
them new publicher isnt our concern, ya can use that as a excuse anytime for anything, its a fact that cdv sucks ok, but they should of known better or they better FIND one quickly, i know its not easy to find a publicher when ya only made 3 games or so, one of em being the most ubber of all games ok, but besides that they cant use the cdv thing forever ya know...
Right now there is only one thing bugging me with neocron.
I have no reason to log in other than to pvp.
Its totally fucked up, I know people hate leveling. But damn we need SOME sort of endgame. Im not asking KK to raise caps, i just want them to introduce some way of progressing your character in a different way. Something like the Sixth Stat Line (Special Abilities) i talked about in Brainport which i have a sneaky suspicion is hitting when DoY comes. It needs to be added asap because right now people who are capped are finding that there is nothing to do other than to pvp. And pvp is getting dull.
Recently ive been finding more pleasure in things like Tech Haven raids than outpost battles. I find more fun in small skirmishes than huge battles. Does anyone feel the same? Do you hate huge battles where you cant make a difference and you run at 10 fps? I know i do.
Promethius
20-08-03, 13:49
Originally posted by Pitspawn
It needs to be added asap because right now people who are capped are finding that there is nothing to do other than to pvp. And pvp is getting dull too...
Yes there needs to be something to do for capped chars. PvP, well at first its scary...then u try it and you liek it. It gets u excited and you grow to love doing...sure you die every now and then but its fun. THen after a long time it starts to become more of a chor to do. (op wars..). Because its so repetitive. Get a warning go out fight. If you die poke watever ever and go back adn fight. Then after it seems as a chor it grows dull adn u start to lose interest. (of course there is those every now and then battles which are O so nice =). But those are few and far between.)
P.S. Give us DoY.
I agree with everything Original Monk had to say:
Carniflex,
when you say this game is ready for new players, you obviously haven't started it recently. I came here a month ago, and i finally made it to near cap, but i've killed hundreds of WBs with much less to show for it than the older chars. When you are a noob and find out that you have to have a rare and a near capped char to compete it just makes it a race to the top. Specialization is also destroying what could be a much better game. I say take out all rares and instantly make diversity viable again. If i don't want to die as a spy, why don't i have the options to use any rifles? If rares were gone and the epic strugle to be the most powerful char (min-maxers and munchkins), we would have a lot more fun focusing on PvP and (if it existed) in game content. Imagine, a Spy might gain new powers being able to use lowtech pistols and rifles :wtf: Currently these options aren't there because we have specialization. Wanna be a H-C and M-C tank? Well the day that M-C ever got unnerffed, then it would be a start, but it won't be possible to be competent in both. Despecialization would add a lot to the game, but i don't see it happening, and it gives me absolutely no desire to reroll a char if i know its going to end up lik 99 percent of the other chars. That's why i rolled a spy to begin with so i coudl be a little different, but i am realizing that Spies are also forced into certain holes.
Just to put it this way: Being a semi noob (i was in Beta 4 for a month and just joined again in July) it is very depressing knowing what i have to do and who i have to compete against. I am short about 64 million Dex XP and many techparts, which i don't feel like working for.
My solution is simple. Take out rares, completely and allow people to specialize. Take out Loms so people won't use them to max their stats, make n00bs more powerful so they won't have to race to the top to take part in PVP. Then you have a fun game.
About what Promethius said:
Yeah there should be something to do for Capped chars, but if it were the way i said you won't have people rushing to cap chars, which would make it more fun. up till <<<< There is nothing to do but level. Why make it like that?
we HAD despecialisation in monks we could master both ppu and apu they were called hybrids
guess what we were removed
Originally posted by hinch
we HAD despecialisation in monks we could master both ppu and apu they were called hybrids
guess what we were removed
Hybrids were too powerfull. But this wasnt a problem with despecialisation, it was a problem with balancing. Lets say we would assume there is only one monk: a hybrid. We go ahead and redesign the monk class a little bit, like no PSI based armor. PPU is your armor/defence. We tweak PPU and APU as well as spell requirements according to this new design. Now you decide how much defence and how much ofense you want to have, all based on PSI.
Lucjan we know hybrids were overpowered but they overnerfed them. Hybrids are now totally unviable for pvp, hence why everyone has gone pure. People seem to forget that not everyone wants to be a pure apu or pure ppu. That was what the hybrid was designed for.
I know this. Hell I even experienced it myself. I liked hybrids for the varity of choices I had. Im not a PPU type player and APU isnt something for me either, I still have one, but I like a tank or spy more.
The problems with monks are home made. PSI is a addition on top of a working system of weapons and armors+resists. While APU spells take the role of weapons as monks cant use normal weapons, PPU is a addition to armors+resists and pretty much the reason why pures and hybrids could not really exists together with PE, tank and spy.
if hybrids would be viable[not overpowered...] id lom my ass to it so damm fast =D
All these people saying that neocron has 'lost it's magic' etc can't be wrong..
KK really needs to do something to save their game..
specialization blows and in my opinion is really screwing the game over. There are so many opportunites that have been missed. First you have the possibilities of leveling Dex with recycling. If you made it worth a damn, you could have players selling chemicals to players for rock bottom prices and it would add another depth to the player interaction. Why the hell does it have to be 1 chitin blah blah blah to get Deutirium? You should be able to clone chemicals, then you would have another dimension to the game.
There are so many skills in the game that are completely unviable as a form of leveling or creating an income. And the ones that are (researching, constructing, repair) are only because there has been some unnatural nerf to the process. Why do the storebought items have to be such crappy quality? because if they weren't then constructors and researchers wouldn't have a job. Oh, but btw, don't consider making construciton your career because you'll never level up as a constructor, you'll have to kill 500 Warbots to be able to construct something of any value. Is it just me or is there something wrong here? Its another reason why i think LoMs are stupid. You should be able to level in construction, but you shouldn't be able to lom to Rifles.
I <3 NC .
this game is pwnage...but your right some changes were no good(I could care less about hybrids as i am APU anyway...but i feel your pain)
anyway on a side note i reactivated my acct last night(although still only paying month to month)
Whiety Bulger
20-08-03, 21:15
All of Neocrons problems are CDV's fault. :)
The game isn't rdy for new players....
Untill they can get out of mc5 how will they ever get anywhere and other players SHOULD NOT have to sit in the n00b area directing ppl helping them etc (cred to those who do)
But it's prolly on the "minority" list with bugs etc, great way to get ppl gowing, stick em in a area with no help at all apart from a few half arsed coded npcs (no offense to their coder)
Lol whenever Doy comes out i am gonna camp MC5 just to see if the n00bs ever get a clue about what the hell is going on. Yeah sure i'll help them after a while, but i am curious what percentage actually manage to make it to their apartment.
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Its totally fucked up, I know people hate leveling. But damn we need SOME sort of endgame. Im not asking KK to raise caps, i just want them to introduce some way of progressing your character in a different way. Something like the Sixth Stat Line (Special Abilities) i talked about in Brainport which i have a sneaky suspicion is hitting when DoY comes. It needs to be added asap because right now people who are capped are finding that there is nothing to do other than to pvp. And pvp is getting dull.
Right now i'm a volunteer game tester for a game called Rubies of Eventide. Now the level cap there is 50. And since some people are approaching 50, the devs decided to have 'soul points' or some such thing so that people can collect that and gain new powers. Like "fire mastery" for sorcerers, or mastery of dual wielding, etc....
I think Neocron would benefit greatly from something like that. Maybe once you hit 95 in your main skill, you start getting special XP points for a 6th skill like you said or something.
Maybe their could be like 12 special abilities per class, that we can hope to level up and gain 3. And if we dont' like it, we cna lom and levle again and try 3 others.
Something like that would be awesome.
Originally posted by Pitspawn
I find more fun in small skirmishes than huge battles. Does anyone feel the same?
Of course. I've always felt that way. Op battles are so stupid sometimes. Sometimes it's too much damn preparetion and time. It's aggravating.
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Do you hate huge battles where you cant make a difference and you run at 10 fps? I know i do.
A ppu can't make a difference? Lies. :p
Anyways, yes I feel that way. However since my "new" fps boost, I haven't been to an op battle. I just haven't logged on much.
It's getting to the point where i'm considering lomming to hybrid, or selling my DS and being a spy for something new and exciting.
Op battles is just rare vs rare and whoever shelter drops first dies
PPU rebuffs heals, resses, rinse and repeat fight over and over grow bored etc
You'll have to wait till you get stealth for a spy to be considered exciting. Unless you consider exciting almost getting powned by a small sewer rat.
But no its not that bad really. If you ever want any advice on leveling a spy (im sure there are people who know more, but....)ask me because i just did it. But try to play a city clan.. Please?
well, im off too.
KK will get this game sorted.
i hope.
In my opinion, Neocron changed to a better game, maybe no everybody likes all the changes, but one thing is very important:
KK LISTENS to his customers. When a serious problem hit the forum, they notice, maybe dont make changes as fast as we desire, but thats for good not to bring new problems.
KK keep up the good work!
P.D: I hope they continue this way. They are doing a good work. Bravo KK!
P.D2: Is there no reward for being so nice with you KK? :D
Heavyporker
20-08-03, 23:03
Look, there's always role-playing, either for yourself or your faction.
WORK to arrange player events - more of them, and more randomly than the regular weekend events like Fight Night.
Sure, fight night can be fun, but they're not for everyone, and not everyone that likes that sort of thing can make it to fight night regularly.
And what's wrong with trying to break out of the specialization mold? Sure, you MIGHT be gimped, but it would be fun and even suprise your opponents so much they lose an edge in fighting you or working against you.
Oh, and yes... about the mega-clans holding most of the maps... whats wrong with you pussies? if you think they hold too much, go make alliances and destroy them...
Hire the Mercs, because thats what they're for, and for many players, money isn't really a issue, so don't use that as an refutation.
And you can always make RP skirmishes anywhere... only pussies go for the CRP caves, the cellars, the MB/MB Bunker... go OUT there, and scout around OPs for enemy combatants... you don't have to actually engage in OP warfare.
And if you don't want to use rares, then don't.
Be unconventional, use advanced group tactics to offset the edge that rares give, and even use Vecs.
Sure, maybe they might be problematic, but use ranged stunner weapons and they might move JUST that much more slowly that the Vec weapons can lock on and fire on them... Keep your men around the vecs so they can't close in and exploit the vehicular blind spots... use vec caravans so you won't get upset if an APC is vulnerable to syncing problems (plus you would have more gun turrets to use anyway).
Not enough drivers? then hire them! just like hiring hackers, man.
That's what NExT runners are for - they own the vecs, they do the driving!
Hell, move OP battles away from the OPs themselves... use the zone terrain... set up ambushes to stop the attackers from moving in on your OP or for the attackers to stop rear attacks on them from the defenders... attackers, use long range weapons and grenade launchers to lob hits over them, so the defenders will get pretty worn down and annoyed and come out to fight you on your ground - what do you think hills, arroyos, trees, and the abandoned villages are for? Use them!
Hey - brilliant idea - hold events by putting special objects in a village, and tell a clan and their enemy about it... they will run to it, and when they see each other, fight like crazy to try to find the object and get it out.
Neocron isn't just a city... its a world! Get your head out of the rut, and LIVE in the world! Viva Neocron!
Originally posted by Heavyporker
And what's wrong with trying to break out of the specialization mold? Sure, you MIGHT be gimped, but it would be fun and even suprise your opponents so much they lose an edge in fighting you or working against you.
Could you maybe explain in more detail how that would work? The 'surprise your opponents so much they lose an edge in fighting you' bit I mean.
Heavyporker
20-08-03, 23:47
Hmm....
Rifle tank, with melee backup, to hit them long, and when they come in close, get closer?
APU with rifles, again, tickle them afar, then when they get mad and get close enough for your spells to cast, hit them hard?
basically, what I am trying to say is that with all the cookie cuttering around, there seems to be a conventional strategy against other cookiecutters. By not doing as such, you will probably nullify the CC strategy, and they will have to scramble around to try to find the most effective tactics to use against you.
I definetly agree with the points about the game changing. Also to about the servers holding 600 people, it easily did in beta and seemed like it would be fine with even more.
I've said it before but, most people stay because they enjoyed what the game used to be not what the game is now.
Heavyporker
21-08-03, 00:05
Why don't we players advertise for Neocron?
Speak it up, go nuts on other forums and mention Neocron.
Push for Neocron on Macs and Linux (greater range of operability means larger audience)
Make flash ads and such and spread them out like those viral movie ads.
Get the fan community more active in creating things (yeah, those thridparty proggies probably soured a lot of us, but I speak of pictures and such...)
The list goes on and on.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
Rifle tank, with melee backup, to hit them long, and when they come in close, get closer?
I had actually considered that combination.. but not sure if melee has an impact atm. And the weapon lore requirement to actually use rifles to 'hit them long' is significantly higher than the tank's int allows (even ignoring the game engine limitations on long range combat).
APU with rifles, again, tickle them afar, then when they get mad and get close enough for your spells to cast, hit them hard?
Only see that working against pistol users. Heavy and rifle specialised classes would just take them down in half a clip of their own long range.
basically, what I am trying to say is that with all the cookie cuttering around, there seems to be a conventional strategy against other cookiecutters. By not doing as such, you will probably nullify the CC strategy, and they will have to scramble around to try to find the most effective tactics to use against you. [/B]
See, my thinking is that most of the conventional strategies are conventional because they're the most effective. There may be a few undiscovered gems left out there, but personally I don't have the inclination to do the LoMing involved in finding them. I've tried a few oddities but there's only so many combinations you can try (at least that make an inkling of sense - droner tank for example may be unconventional, but it's also incredibly pointless).. and most just don't work because of the massive gap between certain weapons, and specialisation vs non-specialisation.
Eg, you mentioned using grenade launchers in op fights.. problem with that is grenade launchers will barely scratch a solo capped char, much less one with ppu support (highest GL is what, tl 44?). That guy (or guys) with the grenade launchers would simply have more impact if equipped as cookie cutter tanks, say. The grenade launchers would have novelty value, but that wears off fast.
Or you mentioned using long range shockers to slow people enough to target them with vehicle guns.. except, you'd have more impact using ppu holy para then that guy that would be gunning the vehicle run up with a cursed soul and open up at point blank range on the poor guy that is rotating 15 degrees for every full mouse sweep.
I'm not saying there's not some unconsidered strategies that'd be effective (and fun).. it's just that everything I can think of (and a few that I've tried) would ultimately be trumped by the conventional methods. There'd be a certain amount of fun and amusement the first few times you used them, but that's not worth then being stuck with an ineffective character when the amusement wears off. Maybe in the days of the old subclass-hopping LoMs, but not now.
Players shouldn't need to specialise so much. Spies should be capable of being the fastest chars, tanks should be able to carry the most, but that doesn't happen. The only specialisation part that I am in favour of is the hybrid nerf. If hybrids were stuck with blessed shields and holy halos then fine. But there's no way in hell you're getting the power you want of the old hybrid. Whenever I talked about hybrids I was told my tank was a match for a hybrid it's just I didn't know how to play my class. Then I see all these people crying for their hybrids back, why shouldn't I tell them their class is viable it's just they don't know how to play it? You were given the freedom to make a choice, to have some ppu at the expense of apu. Instead you abused it and people insisted on having a ppu's defenses while still having good offense. Well this is what happens when you abuse freedom.
Heavyporker
21-08-03, 01:39
Yeah... I mean, I read the patch note, and it said " UP TO" a 30% penalty to the efficiacy of your spells in one path if you had points in the other.
Doesn't sound like a punishment - sounds EXTREMELY reasonable to me... yep. Can still have both, but you won't be as adept with either as a pure.
I agree specialization is what changed the game the most to me. The cap should be lowered alot so skilled people can still get a bonus but not so it matters so drasticly.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
Yeah... I mean, I read the patch note, and it said " UP TO" a 30% penalty to the efficiacy of your spells in one path if you had points in the other.
Doesn't sound like a punishment - sounds EXTREMELY reasonable to me... yep. Can still have both, but you won't be as adept with either as a pure.
Trust me man, it totally kills off hybrids.
Heavyporker
21-08-03, 01:53
Shacer... it doesn't kill hybrids... it makes them manageable...
They can still choose to be one, and use both paths, but nowhere as well as pures...
They would do admirably as solo hunters or duelists.
Originally posted by Heavyporker
Shacer... it doesn't kill hybrids... it makes them manageable...
They can still choose to be one, and use both paths, but nowhere as well as pures...
They would do admirably as solo hunters or duelists.
No, I disagree. Try and play one and see what it's like.
I've been trying to come up with a hybrid setup, but I simply don't have the patience because
1.Loms take too damn long.
2.Test center has "rules" against using it just to test out setups. :rolleyes:
this thread didnt start as a hybrid thread :rolleyes: just as a nc has changed ALOT since it was released and most of it for the bad.
as far as hybrids go you cn just about 1v1 duel with it mob hunting is kinda possiable anything else forget it. and it ISNT 30% its more like 47-50% go work it out
Heavyporker
21-08-03, 02:03
what do you mean "anything else"?!
I would think that hybrids would still be viable in a team, since, after all, they can act as a field medic that keeps you together long enough for the surgeon to work on you, so to speak, and they can give extra firepower when you need it.
I would say that with the hybrids balanced out, we have taken a step forward in making Neocron great!
Originally posted by Heavyporker
what do you mean "anything else"?!
I would think that hybrids would still be viable in a team, since, after all, they can act as a field medic that keeps you together long enough for the surgeon to work on you, so to speak, and they can give extra firepower when you need it.
I would say that with the hybrids balanced out, we have taken a step forward in making Neocron great!
Their HORRIBLE in a team. HORRIBLE. Their severely outshined by apus and ppus to such a huge degree.
Really man, their jokes. That's why there's basically like 1 hybrid on plout.
hybrids are useless in a team and their ppu is crap on anyone appart from them selfs.
infact a tank using a tl 3 heal heals more than a hybrid using a 5 slotted holy heal with a 5 slotted holy heal sanctum running
Well I agree with parts of your post hinch. To be honest I think a lot of the changes have been made with other things in mind, and that you've missed the good parts about the changes, but things like belt drops, they just suck.
call me synical but there are no good parts.
off the top of my head the only real things that have been good have been bug fixes on duping etc and pa reqs changes + addition of new psi rares to balance
but theyre easily overshadows by things like polluted drop pools and shitty drop rates
i like all the changes for the most part, the only thing that has changed that i don't like, is how they are forcing classes to be cookie cutter, not saying i want monks with CS's or anything like that. But there are a lot of weapons that just simply have no use and shoudln't be in the game cause they don't offer any strategical advantage. There should be another option for a tank besides a CS. Apu's with fire and poison and HL are about the only class that has "options".
Well the good side of things is that I've always hated the way people think they have some exclusive right to level right on my doorstep and I'm not justified in killing them. Locking the crp GR does that. That's why I like it. Also each faction now has their territory, the way it should be. Look at the Saturn map, TG have the canyons, they also have Jeriko but only because the city clans aren't quite up to taking Jeriko. Fa have some OPs in the middle and towards DoY, while CM control the OPs near MB.
on jupiter there was a huge protest about fang and CM owning the entire map and nobody being able to take the ops.
so in protest fang has relenquished control of all ops and no longer holds any and does not take any.
now the server is completely stagnant and theres nothing happening at all :rolleyes: i do think there was better ways of sorting generep probelms and city clans lvling at cycrow etc that this.
when we were tg we took control of tezla, soliko, ceres, grant, tezla.
we set regular patrols and killed anyone not tg or allied to tg on sight after a month the city clans got the idea and stayed away we never expanded beyond that and we had our own generep locking of random patrols its easy if the players are willing to have same effects as locking gr`s
i liked it better in beta days when a clan consisted of about 10-15 people tops and there were a bunch of these smaller clans always fighting over 1 or 2 ops, not a few really big clans fighting over 10+ OPS. It would be impossible to prevent such a thing though. Even if you limited clan size you would just have a bunch of small clans with tons of alliances. Unless you had some kind of a negative side effect to allying with someone while fighting in an op. Dn't know how the coding would detect such a thing though.
Originally posted by bounty
i liked it better in beta days when a clan consisted of about 10-15 people tops and there were a bunch of these smaller clans always fighting over 1 or 2 ops, not a few really big clans fighting over 10+ OPS. It would be impossible to prevent such a thing though. Even if you limited clan size you would just have a bunch of small clans with tons of alliances. Unless you had some kind of a negative side effect to allying with someone while fighting in an op. Dn't know how the coding would detect such a thing though.
I feel TEH same way.
Originally posted by hinch
we set regular patrols and killed anyone not tg or allied to tg on sight after a month the city clans got the idea and stayed away we never expanded beyond that and we had our own generep locking of random patrols its easy if the players are willing to have same effects as locking gr`s
The thing is, I used to do the same, and I always got directs and people with LEs giving me all sorts of shit about "we're just trying to level" and stuff.
Which is another reason why it makes the weaker chars weaker and the stronger chars stronger. Everyone knows that being in a team in the canyons or in a Chaos Cave is the fastest way to level.
What are said n00b's options? Help the situation themselves by taking back those vital OPs? I doubt it. And they will be much more likely to give up at the futility of the whole situtation, or switch to TGo_O
Maybe if the power differentials between capped and mid-level chars wasn't so great there would be:
A) less need to level in such a hurry, and
B) more of an interesting fight when they do get there because maybe there would be a chance that you could die.
Hinch, you still stuck in your Appt ?
Tip, GR to techhaven or similar & do some missions for another faction, somewhere thay dont have copbot, this will still raise your SL.
Or have you been a really bad boy, and are way beyond missions ?
kill enemy faction NPCD, i had to kill strippers in TS for a LOOOONG ass time before i could raise my BD symp into the positives.( i was like -100 BD symp)
Original monk
21-08-03, 13:13
Originally posted by hinch
we HAD despecialisation in monks we could master both ppu and apu they were called hybrids
guess what we were removed
snif snif, it stil hurts me straight to the heart, I WONNA be a real hybrid again, i wasnt a hybrid who poisoned people with a beam and paralysed em at the same time, i yust like huntin with a hybrid snif ( for example, antipoisonsanctum and a firehalo or so to solo shamans :P)
Original monk
21-08-03, 13:23
Originally posted by Scikar
Players shouldn't need to specialise so much. Spies should be capable of being the fastest chars, tanks should be able to carry the most, but that doesn't happen. The only specialisation part that I am in favour of is the hybrid nerf. If hybrids were stuck with blessed shields and holy halos then fine. But there's no way in hell you're getting the power you want of the old hybrid. Whenever I talked about hybrids I was told my tank was a match for a hybrid it's just I didn't know how to play my class. Then I see all these people crying for their hybrids back, why shouldn't I tell them their class is viable it's just they don't know how to play it? " You were given the freedom to make a choice " , to have some ppu at the expense of apu. Instead you abused it and people insisted on having a ppu's defenses while still having good offense. Well this is what happens when you abuse freedom.
its the you were given the freedom to make a choise line that bothers me a bit scikar, my choise was made in beta4 i wanted to be a hybrid, at the beginnin of retail, at the first day they went on i became a hybrid.
Now they killed all hybrids :/ so bye bye freedom of choise, and yeah i can still be a hybrid but you also wouldnt like it to loose -30% of youre hc cause you have some melleecombat and visaversa.
And yeah i know what ya mean by you have the freedom of choise: a bit ppu takes away (alot) apu, but they could of giving me that choise about 10 months ago and then i wouldnt be mad, first give us a taste off what fun is and by the time im fully used of it ===>> NERF NERF NERF, bye bye char where ya worked that hard for, you go give some boosts now (ppu) to keep yourself busy, or you go attack stuff (apu) (and have the same strenght as a spy, dead in a few shots)
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