View Full Version : Weapon weights are rediculous.
A little bit of trivia for you.
How much do you think a Plasma Pistol weighs?
2 kilos? 3 kilos? Actually it weighs 4.6.
How about a Plasma Rifle then?
5 kilos maybe? Actually it's 5.6. That's not too bad.
Well what about a Plasma Cannon?
I see a pattern here, 6.6. Nope. OK, 7? Wrong again. The answer is 2.4. Yep that's right. A Judge weighs in at 4.6, a FL takes 5.6 off your freeload but with their weight of 2.4 you can carry 2 Cursed Souls and still not take off as much as the spy loses.
What else is there then?
Well, Gatlin pistols weigh 2.4. Strangely, so do Gatlin cannons. Yet Gatlin rifles weigh 2.5. Freezers: pistol 4.2, rifle 5.2, cannon 2.4. Just what the hell is going on here? It's no wonder tanks can go pure H-C when the best weapon weighs less than half the weight of the best pistol or the best rifle. That's right, the RoLH weighs 5 kilos, and as I said the FL weighs 5.6, but a tank can carry a CS and a speedgun and the two combined weigh just 4.8 kilos.
Fix this, now. It's not like there's anything to do except change a few numbers.
ZoneVortex
18-08-03, 20:14
And also drones are a problem. The lowest drone in the whole game weighs like 3.2 or something. As a noob this is a total pain because you can only carry around one drone with you. So it's like, go down into the sewer, cast the drone, it gets stuck in the wall and blows up for no reason, and then you have to go all the way back outa the sewer to the goguardian and get a new drone, rinse, and repeat. Wooo hoo, NOT FUN.
ericdraven
18-08-03, 20:19
But the poor tanks must put all points into H-C, there is nothing left for TRA!!! :(
thewarrior008
18-08-03, 20:21
omfg hahaha this is just FUNEZ
Originally posted by ericdraven
But the poor tanks must put all points into H-C, there is nothing left for TRA!!! :(
No they don't HAVE to, it's just possible because they have nothing heavy to worry about and they get lots of force resist from their imps, as well as plenty of pierce armor. Maybe if tanks were forced to spare, my god, 10 points of transport, which means 2 less H-C points, they might be mroe sympathetic with spies who have to spend far too many points in T-C AND agility.
ZoneVortex
18-08-03, 20:23
Hey man my tank has 38 transport >.<
well this should be posted in bug forum.
very strange theis cannon thing ... well tanks need all the loving they can get.
btw, i cant see a problem with drones - i can carry 2-4 as a noob + pistol.
You might say tanks need all the loving but why do the spies have to have the heaviest guns?
because chains havnt been invented in Neocron yet.
put atlethics in STR.
good bye pure HC tanks.
EDIT: hello to tanks with uber resists :)
EDIT2: im wearing a titan armor, dont try to flame me.
EDIT3: i think this is pretty fair since pes and spies need to sacrifice their offensive skill into agility.
EDIT4: and maybe even spies can have some better resists and hlt and stuff.
EDIT5: its a documentary on tv i gotta see :) cant edit anymore
EDIT6: commercial.
bibliotequa
18-08-03, 22:22
Trust me tanks dont need tra, my friend BoS-Snake has no tra, he gets like +20 from imps or so, but has 110 str after imps (96 base, too lazy to cap, and he switched around some brain imps) but my tank with only like 90 str atm (i made him from a monk's point of view, so its str points are forked up atm, and im too lazy to lom) has about 70 tra, 20 from imps, and 50 natural (yeah yeah, what a n00bie) he has a total weight capacity of 130 and i have something like 136 total... woo big diffrence huh?
I find I always have plenty of free load anyway, to the point where I was taking 50 packs of ammo around with me. So there's no reason not to at least bring the weight of plasma cannons in line with other weapons.
Iffy Boatrace
19-08-03, 00:59
Aye, and don't those gents with the little flying things suffer most? Skinny little winky's that they are, and those little flying bits weigh upward of 5 stone each. Seems a bit arse backwards if you ask me.
Absenthe anyone ?
Originally posted by Scikar
I find I always have plenty of free load anyway, to the point where I was taking 50 packs of ammo around with me. So there's no reason not to at least bring the weight of plasma cannons in line with other weapons.
So basically your saying increase the weight of HC weaponry
because your spy's pistol is too heavy?
Why don't you focus on more important things for your class and
stop worry about others with such trivial details like weapon
weight.. jesus al'mighty.
Remember my thread to increase weapon stats, same thing as
this really. KK don't give a damn, they will continue to make this
game as they see fit. If they think these weapons weight should
be 2.4 lbs then it should. There's no logic behind it.
edit: btw, if a tank carries PA2 + gatlin + plasma cannon, you
can only carry about 10x of each ammo tops before your overweight.
The weight "problem" has been around for a long time. It's nothing new. I see two possibilities:
KK got rifle and cannon weights backwards
Weights go up as accuracy increases
I'm guessing the latter is an excuse for the former. :-)
btw, if a tank carries PA2 + gatlin + plasma cannon,
That's only true if you don't put anything into Transport. Some of us have over 80 in Transport because we don't have any other choice if we want to be able to carry two rifles, 10 packs of ammo for each, a few medkits, 10 Psi Modules, armor, substances, and various other materials...
Originally posted by Scikar
No they don't HAVE to, it's just possible because they have nothing heavy to worry about and they get lots of force resist from their imps, as well as plenty of pierce armor. Maybe if tanks were forced to spare, my god, 10 points of transport, which means 2 less H-C points, they might be mroe sympathetic with spies who have to spend far too many points in T-C AND agility.
You want ur CS to be worth a Dam U need every point into heavy 1 point is to much spared.
3trans resst into heavy and thats is not enough :(
Increase cannon weight - force tanks to spread out their main skill and feel the pain of every other class. They'll still have the relatively low TL of the CS on their side to help them get good stats on it.
Originally posted by IceStorm
....That's only true if you don't put anything into Transport. Some of us have over 80 in Transport because we don't have any other choice if we want to be able to carry two rifles, 10 packs of ammo for each, a few medkits, 10 Psi Modules, armor, substances, and various other materials...
Well seeing how you have so much in transport since you don't
need any HC or MC, then what's the problem?
HeavyWeapon Tanks need every point, there's only 175 and that's
not enough to even cap any rares over tl 105 (cursed soul) at
artifact quality. Tanks are the only class who can't cap their
weapons natrually and even unnatrually it's hard.
Where as pistols are capped easily in aim, speed, rifles are capped
with alot of lore.
Tanks can't cap Speed, Aim or even range natrually on tl 105+.
HC, Pa3, and a fortress would yield capped stats surely, but
that's alot to go through.
edit: my point is if they made HC weaponry cappable with less
HC, i'd put the extra in transport in a heart beat...
Originally posted by jernau
Increase cannon weight - force tanks to spread out their main skill and feel the pain of every other class. They'll still have the relatively low TL of the CS on their side to help them get good stats on it.
Come Again with Red PA, HC-3 and drugs I still cant cap my aim? The CS is a bitch to cap even if yea got an all artifact.
Go play a tank if there so uber then u tell me how grand the tank is it took me 4 CS builds wich was a bitch to get the parts beofre I got my 3 slot artifact CS even then its still 119 freq. You think there great at taking dmg there the same as a PE with dmg taken overall.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Come Again with Red PA, HC-3 and drugs I still cant cap my aim? The CS is a bitch to cap even if yea got an all artifact.
Amen. Not to mention, with red PA4 you'd be lucky to carry
any weapon on you without being overweight o_O
Q`alooaith
19-08-03, 02:08
Originally posted by Iffy Boatrace
Aye, and don't those gents with the little flying things suffer most? Skinny little winky's that they are, and those little flying bits weigh upward of 5 stone each. Seems a bit arse backwards if you ask me.
Absenthe anyone ?
That's terrible, weights only 50% less than me....
anyway, cannon's should be realy realy heavy, if pistols weigh 5 or 6 they should weigh at least double that..
Tanks'll whine about an unfair nerf, but it has to be done, it's bug or error in game design, currently a tank can carry each of the heavy weapons and a load of ammo, while a spy doing the same might end up with a crinck in the back, slipped disk or any other problems due to lifting wayy to much...
Originally posted by FBI
Amen. Not to mention, with red PA4 you'd be lucky to carry
any weapon on you without being overweight o_O
fortress would be the only way to cap a CS I tryed it today with HC3 red PA and an wep lore drug I got aim to 260%
Originally posted by FBI
Tanks are the only class who can't cap their
weapons natrually
I have to assume you've been drinking to say that....
Originally posted by jernau
I have to assume you've been drinking to say that....
Do you play a tank tell me how you can cap it naturaly if yea do?
Originally posted by KimmyG
Come Again with Red PA, HC-3 and drugs I still cant cap my aim? The CS is a bitch to cap even if yea got an all artifact.
Go play a tank if there so uber then u tell me how grand the tank is it took me 4 CS builds wich was a bitch to get the parts beofre I got my 3 slot artifact CS even then its still 119 freq. You think there great at taking dmg there the same as a PE with dmg taken overall.
What part of that is any different on any other class?
Show me a capped PN anywhere....
Capping a FL means using 100% of your 2 main skills on a spy.
PEs can't cap anything except a Liberator without major gimpage.
Monks..... don't even start.
Why should tanks have it so (relatively) easy? - one main skill only needed and no other essentials under that skill.
All rares are hard to get - CS is no harder than PE, FL, HL, HCS etc. etc.
/edit - to answer the second post - yes I do but that's not the point I was making.
Originally posted by jernau
What part of that is any different on any other class?
Show me a capped PN anywhere....
Capping a FL means using 100% of your 2 main skills on a spy.
PEs can't cap anything except a Liberator without major gimpage.
Monks..... don't even start.
Why should tanks have it so (relatively) easy? - one main skill only needed and no other essentials under that skill.
All rares are hard to get - CS is no harder than PE, FL, HL, HCS etc. etc.
try balanceing out ur resists to wear red PA, try having an a PPU 24/7 to HC-3 you. PE's have the best defence in the dont use a rare u dont need them.
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Tanks'll whine about an unfair nerf, but it has to be done, it's bug or error in game design, currently a tank can carry each of the heavy weapons and a load of ammo, while a spy doing the same might end up with a crinck in the back, slipped disk or any other problems due to lifting wayy to much...
Dude, get a clue. Tanks can't carry shit and that's probably why
the weapons don't weigh much. WHy is everyone worrying about
other shit in the game, worry about your own class.
I can't believe people would go through extrodinary lengths to
get another class gimped with weapon weights.. you guys crack
me up literally.
WHEN KK ALLOWS HC TO INFLUENCE THE STATS MORE, and only
then would a tank be able to spec into transport. If anything,
the only tanks that spec transport is melee cause they get alot
of it from implants. Does any of this make sense?
How about KK makes rifles and pistols just as hard to cap as
HC weaponry, meaning you have to use every fucking dex and
int point into lore and pc/rc, then we can talk about weapon weights.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by KimmyG
try balanceing out ur resists to wear red PA, try having an a PPU 24/7 to HC-3 you. PE's have the best defence in the dont use a rare u dont need them.
So don't wear PA (I assume you mean the new red PA btw) - most tanks don't anymore for many reasons I'm sure you know. Be grateful you are one of the classes that even have the option.
My point is - tanks only need to use one uncontested major skill and one minor one for their weapons. Spies and monks have to use both of their highly contested major skills. PEs are just tricky in all ways. Tanks can afford a little pain IMO they've had it relatively easy for a year now.
Is true, tanks do not cap aiming naturally (I need to make a last test); damage and rof can be capped.
However tanks are also the class which do not make any sacrifice in implants or subskill points to cap the damage of their weapons. Every strenght point goes to heavy combat, where every other class has to distribute the points between rifle/pistol combat, tech combat (totally useless skill) and the agility necessary to not be sitting ducks. Monks also sacrifice their mana pool for damage/rof/range, and of course in apu monks the hability to buff or heal themselves.
The only sacrifice of tanks is to cap RoF, they need to wear PA, gimping their athletics; but at the moment monks also have to wear PA to cap their weapons, and even with the PA monks have to sacriffice the mana pool, which is the equivalent of health to tanks....
On topic, pistol weights should be toned down, and cannons/rifles should have a proporcionated scale of weightings:
cannons>rifles>pistols
This makes more sense... to me at least it does.
Originally posted by jernau
So don't wear PA (I assume you mean the new red PA btw) - most tanks don't anymore for many reasons I'm sure you know. Be grateful you are one of the classes that even have the option.
My point is - tanks only need to use one uncontested major skill and one minor one for their weapons. Spies and monks have to use both of their highly contested major skills. PEs are just tricky in all ways. Tanks can afford a little pain IMO they've had it relatively easy for a year now.
I dont however when +20 HC all of a sudden Im considering working it into the setup I can balance out and - ath a nearly no loss I think. Like FBI said stop trying to bring other classes down and try to geta boost to your own class.
Originally posted by jernau
Spies and monks have to use both of their highly contested major skills. PEs are just tricky in all ways. Tanks can afford a little pain IMO they've had it relatively easy for a year now.
Like it's any fun not being able to hack or mod my own weapons?
I lomed all my lore to hack once, it was great.. all i could use was
my speedgun at shitty ranges, but it was great hacking hoverbots
and warbots. If you think a tanks INT is minor, your clearly mistaken.
edit:
Originally posted by KimmyG
I dont however when +20 HC all of a sudden Im considering working it into the setup I can balance out and - ath a nearly no loss I think. Like FBI said stop trying to bring other classes down and try to geta boost to your own class.
They need to tweak the -ATL in hc PA4 because MC pa takes away
HC, where as HC pa should take away MC, not ATL.
The pa is outdated from beta3 or even before that, they need to
tweak it for the current mechanics, like tank runspeed nerfs,
parashocks and all that crap.
Originally posted by KimmyG
I dont however when +20 HC all of a sudden Im considering working it into the setup I can balance out and - ath a nearly no loss I think. Like FBI said stop trying to bring other classes down and try to geta boost to your own class.
Tried that - you turned up and whined that spies were too hard for you to kill :lol: :rolleyes:
/edit - @FBI - I mean "minor" as in =20 as opposed to =100. How you use it is another matter.
I agree with the last Kimmy said, no one that I know complained about tanks being able to carry too many weapons or ammo; I would reduce the weights of pistol and rifles... or increase cannon weights and modify the ammunition so tanks are not affected, and PE's and Spies can carry more ammo, or need less transport.
Originally posted by jernau
Tried that - you turned up and whined that spies were too hard for you to kill :lol: :rolleyes:
/edit - @FBI - I mean "minor" as in =20 as opposed to =100. How you use it is another matter.
AHAHAH good call maybe if yea had 500 posts instead of 1300 you would be better at ur class and not need a boost.
Originally posted by KimmyG
AHAHAH good call maybe if yea had 500 posts instead of 1300 you would be better at ur class and not need a boost.
I think my extra year in the game gives me enough experience thanks. FYI I post at work mostly where it's generally frowned on to play Cron.
@sleawer - Increase cannons or decrease all the others, both are good. I think they'd all look pretty odd though if no weapon weighed over 3kilos.
Q`alooaith
19-08-03, 02:30
I laugh at you FBI...
Tank's that don't spec any Trans and still want to carry everything are the worst player type.
Think about it for a second, if pistols, rifles and drones weighed less than cannons or even the same, you'd see people running around using more than two types, or they'd be able to spec more resist force.
Realy tanks need their weapon weighs increased, cause right now you can just spend everything in HC and get awawy with imp bonuses = not good or ballenced play..
Why should tanks get that unfair advantage over other classes, they get good defences and resists, good damage output. Why should tanks get feather weapons, why should they over the other classes that have to spec trans to carry everything they want, or even just half of it...
And your complaining that you can't carry jack when you don't spec any nat trans and try and carry all your weapons and PA3+ whatever other armor you got on.. Bloody hell, try that with any other class and you'll see how unfair it is to make them lift more than you.
Originally posted by jernau
/edit - @FBI - I mean "minor" as in =20 as opposed to =100. How you use it is another matter.
Ok so if you other classes have to use all your int for Lore and
all your Dex for pc/rc then so be it because how you use it is
another matter ;)
Leave tanks alone, work on PE pa, fix monks. tanks are a dying
class because of all the nerfs, it's incredible how many people
rerolled to PE's and monks because they got fed up with
being a turret, MC is useless so tanks have become borked.
What I meant to say is increase cannons weight to more than pistols and rifles, but also reduce the ammo weights so tanks can carry the same, and spies/pe's can carry more.
I hope this clear things.
edit:
Actually FBI, a rifle spy cannot have good agl and cap his weapons (all weapons) in dmg, rof, range if he spends points in anything else than weapon lore. Capping rof of FL is something that I havent seen yet, no need to say disruptor damage.
I worked in a setup time ago which allowed me to cap all spy rifles and still have enoguht hack for OP's, but that was gimping totally my agility, and of course only having combat implants (no moveon and no resistor) which means even more crappy resists.
A spy can cap PE weapons easily, but not spy designed weapons without total gimpage or spending all the intelligence points into weapon lore (and this means crap rof, and even do not cap dmg on high TL weapons).
Hopefully the spy PA will help in this a bit.
eh do whatever you want really though my tank is near capped as is my monk my PE could be capped easy and my spy setup is so dam good Ill spend the time now to cap a spy.
Well seeing how you have so much in transport since you don't
need any HC or MC, then what's the problem?
Oh, so I don't need Resist Force now? When did this happen? I've only got 50 Resist Force because I have 90 in Transport. Not only that, I wouldn't mind being able to use a Combat Hovertec, but I can't if I still want to carry things.
Tanks, supposedly, have 100 STR levels to dump into their primary weapon damage stat. Spies/PEs/Psi Monks don't get that "luxury". We have to dump points into a useless subskill (TC/MST) just to be able to use our high-end weapons, thus syphoning off valuable points in DEX/PSI, the main skills for our weapons.
I have zero sympathy for tanks who state they can't afford any STR points for things other than HC. "Capping" weapons is a Q3A/UT thing. If you wanted an FPS, go play PlanetSide. If you want to dump all your points into a subskill, don't complain when you "can't carry enough."
Ideally, cannon and rifle weights should be reversed, in my opinion. Cannon's a big metal tube. Rifles are sophisticated, relatively delicate equipment. Make the class with the most STR carry the heaviest weapons.
But hey, if it hasn't happened by now, it probably won't happen for another year. They're only just getting around to fixing the first level bone enforcement chests and vehicleinterface 2's.
Originally posted by Sleawer
What I meant to say is increase cannons weight to more than pistols and rifles, but also reduce the ammo weights so tanks can carry the same, and spies/pe's can carry more.
I hope this clear things.
dont mind this at all. while your all screaming for nerfs think of
something that benefits everyone you greedy redneck sobs.
why not ask for a drop on pistol and rifle weights?
Dropping weights of rifles and pistols below cannons would mean having weapons with ridiculous weights, which is pretty unrealistic... basically your ammo would weight more than your weapon.
That's why I suggested that solution.
edit: who's screaming for nerfs FBI? me?
Originally posted by Sleawer
Dropping weights of rifles and pistols below cannons would mean having weapons with ridiculous weights, which is pretty unrealistic... basically your ammo would weight more than your weapon.
That's why I suggested that solution.
So just cover the weight when you show the info of the weapon and not look at it ;)
Originally posted by IceStorm
Oh, so I don't need Resist Force now? When did this happen? I've only got 50 Resist Force because I have 90 in Transport. Not only that, I wouldn't mind being able to use a Combat Hovertec, but I can't if I still want to carry things.
Tanks, supposedly, have 100 STR levels to dump into their primary weapon damage stat. Spies/PEs/Psi Monks don't get that "luxury". We have to dump points into a useless subskill (TC/MST) just to be able to use our high-end weapons, thus syphoning off valuable points in DEX/PSI, the main skills for our weapons.
I have zero sympathy for tanks who state they can't afford any STR points for things other than HC. "Capping" weapons is a Q3A/UT thing. If you wanted an FPS, go play PlanetSide. If you want to dump all your points into a subskill, don't complain when you "can't carry enough."
If there were a heavy combat eye implant that added +15 HC,
i wouldn't be here complaining right now. you have the luxury of
that implant dont you? OMG OMG !1!11 remove eye implants
because tanks don't get HC from anyof them...pfft.
Stop trying to explain the weights for the weapons, it's a game
not real life, jesus.
If i wanteda FPS i wouldn't be playing a Tank you twit, tanks
are the slowest combat classes in the game... you didn't know that?
Originally posted by KimmyG
why not ask for a drop on pistol and rifle weights?
Quite simple, they have nothing better to do than to cry for nerfs.
edit:
Originally posted by Sleawer
Dropping weights of rifles and pistols below cannons would mean having weapons with ridiculous weights, which is pretty unrealistic... basically your ammo would weight more than your weapon.
That's why I suggested that solution.
edit: who's screaming for nerfs FBI? me?
This isn't real life, maybe cannons weigh less because they are
thinner, who the hell knows, it's just a game. PSI magic is very
realistic too i guess? :rolleyes:
I'm after the thread starter and his followers :)
Q`alooaith
19-08-03, 02:48
Originally posted by FBI
dont mind this at all. while your all screaming for nerfs think of
something that benefits everyone you greedy redneck sobs.
FBI, read some of your posts here, you get very very defencive about your fav weapons and weights, no one's screamed for a nerf, but for the weapons to relfect the fact that cannons are not light, they are heavy and big..
If cannons where meant to be light, do you think they'd have made them reduce runspeed when out?
The point is, it looks very very wrong when you compair with other types of weapons, the "heavy" weapons are lighter than the pistols it's probably somthing that was overlooked time ago or the other weapons got weight added but the cannons got forgoten, or an older weapon table, or WIP one was used by misstake, such a small error can go un noticed for a long time.
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
If cannons where meant to be light, do you think they'd have made them reduce runspeed when out?
Yea and if I have more transport does my tank go anyfaster? No make that change more trans=more run speed I could live with that.
FBI, no one has a pistol combat or rifle combat backbone, whereas Tanks have. Monks do not have any of them, spine or eye.
And where I mentioned real life here? I'm basing myself in simple logic, the ammo of a weapon weights more than the weapon itself?
Let's try to give KK logic solutions mkay?
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
If cannons where meant to be light, do you think they'd have made them reduce runspeed when out?
They nerfed runspeed because tanks were too fast and the
server wasn't reporting the correct positions (skip/lag) of the
players. But this was before they introduced the 80/80 runspeed
cap. (hint hint) so they should remove the HC + runspeed nerf
since this has been solved already. This was never a issue of
making it more realistic, tanks were just overpowered with
130 ATL and 100 endurance (when end effecting speed, not AGL),
i remember MeGaMaN running so fast you couldn't even target him,
he had his cursed soul out. It's not fair when you can't hit your
enemy, so Nerf Nerf.
Originally posted by Sleawer
FBI, no one has a pistol combat or rifle combat backbone, whereas Tanks have. Monks do not have any of them, spine or eye.
Awesome, you got my hint. There are more important things to
talk about, like implants that benefit everyone. Not weapon
weights. Mkay?
Monks dont need anymore. There good enough as is.
Originally posted by FBI
Awesome, you got my hint. There are more important things to
talk about, like implants that benefit everyone. Not weapon
weights. Mkay?
No I havent got your hint; if I want to any of those important things "for you", I would start another thread. In these I'm trying to stay in topic, which is weapons weights, and the thread starter have all the reasons to complain about it.
I provided a solution which fits the classes without nerfs, and still havent heard a solution from your part.
edit: KimmyG I dont agree, monks need to cap the mana pool as tanks cap health. I dont think is too much to ask.
If i wanteda FPS i wouldn't be playing a Tank you twit, tanks
are the slowest combat classes in the game... you didn't know that?
I have never, ever, seen a tank that could not outrun me and outgun me. The only advantage I have with my spy is the currently engine-limited long range on my Redeemer and Tangent Epic rifle, which is sad considering that neither is anywhere near its maximum range.
If there were a heavy combat eye implant that added +15 HC,
i wouldn't be here complaining right now
Why do you need one? 15 RC at +100 is 75 trainpoints, far less than the 142 DEX trainpoints I have to burn to use my top rifles. Hell, if you dumped 74 trainpoints into Transport (62 Transport), you'd still have 68 trainpoints for use in HC. You're still coming out ahead compared to me using an RC3.
Let's put this into perspective. With 0 Transport, a capped STR tank with, what was it, +10 from imps) has 130 max load. Me, with my capped STR spy -3 from an Adv Nerves 3 and 80 usable transport (-10 from Adv Nerves 3) has a grand total of 106 max load. You're complaining about cannons weights when I have to cart around multiple 5 to 6.6 unit weight weapons?
What's your problem again? That I want my rifles to weigh a few units less and your cannons to weigh a few units more? You already have 24 load units on me. You're upset about what? :-)
Don't expect any overall logic to the weights.
Like many other small details and inconsistencies I expect it was because of...
Typos that never got corrected, then used as templates for other stuff...
or
Feature A was bust at some point, so they did a quick and dirty hack on Feature B to compensate. Feature A gets either fixed or removed or obsoleted. Quick and dirty Feature B hack remains.
or
It was to be complemented/compensated for by something that was once planned, but never made it into the game.
or
It was a random number, made up in early beta just to fill a stat field, and has never been looked at again.
or
It was the brain child of a coder who *did* have an overall plan, but is no longer around, and no-one now has a bloody clue what the plan was, so it's left in for eternity.
or
There really is a plan behind the madness, no matter how weird or contorted the logic, but no-one can be bothered or feels like telling us.
or
Due to hundreds of horrible code kludges accrued over time on interlinking items/stats/skills it would either break all of Neocron *horribly* or require a total re-write from the ground up.
or
It's one of the zillion tiny little details that are absurdly easy to fix so, bizarrely, gets ignored eternally precisely *because* it's trivial to fix, and there are bigger, more intractable/interesting problems to look at.
or
It was one of KK's extreme min/max methods of balance testing something, but it never got finished tuning and has been stuck at extreme end of scale forever.
or
No-one has a bloody clue what's going on, and they are flying by the seat of the pants, making it up as they go along.
or
...
I'll stop now - with the possible exception of the last item I can name solid examples of every single one of the reasons above :D
How about just leave the weights alone or make them all weigh
the same?
I'm cancelling my subscription to this thread because it's a lost
cause and there are more important things to do, like helping
people in the Player to Player help forum and brainport.
Originally posted by Sleawer
edit: KimmyG I dont agree, monks need to cap the mana pool as tanks cap health. I dont think is too much to ask.
BY all means do My primary and favorite char is APU and as one im telling you there good enough.
KimmyG, I have been ppu, apu, and hybrid; the two lasts for a long time, and if I know something, that's about monks. Logic says cap the mana as tanks cap health, do you understand that? would it make monks overpowered?
You are fine with your monk, perfect; I am not fine with the mana pool, and I dont have a ppu in my ass all the time to psi 3 me for damage so I can spend apu points into ppw.
Originally posted by Kurai
or
It was the brain child of a coder who *did* have an overall plan, but is no longer around, and no-one now has a bloody clue what the plan was, so it's left in for eternity.
...
:lol: nice one
It seems people can't think much more than one patch ahead.
Patch 1) Adjust the weights so that they're fair by increasing the weight of cannons.
Tanks now spec some transport to be able to carry their weapons.
Patch 2) KK introduces H-C eye implants.
Spies and PEs now have lost 2 arguments against tanks - 1 that tanks can afford to spend every point in H-C which isn't fair and 2 that tanks are the favourite class of KK.
You can even get both patches together.
Originally posted by Sleawer
KimmyG, I have been ppu, apu, and hybrid; the two lasts for a long time, and if I know something, that's about monks. Logic says cap the mana as tanks cap health, do you understand that? would it make monks overpowered?
You are fine with your monk, perfect; I am not fine with the mana pool, and I dont have a ppu in my ass all the time to psi 3 me for damage so I can spend apu points into ppw.
:lol: nice one
With a capped HL and full pool of mana I could floor some *** mobs in a few seconds. What boost is needed? You can have full mana and less powerful spell or a powerfull spell and less mana. HL is the best wepon in the game it makes the CS look like a paintball gun. I dont need monks boosted then nerfed to shit cause they are to good.
A good APU can solo a tank.
Cause even though there defence is shit there weapon sears through even a capped shelter on a tank.
Last thing we need is endless casting cause of capped mana. Pop boosters at the right time and you should never run out of mana.
Q`alooaith
19-08-03, 04:57
Originally posted by FBI
Awesome, you got my hint. There are more important things to
talk about, like implants that benefit everyone. Not weapon
weights. Mkay?
Look at it this way.
oh, little Bug A anit anything big, let's leave it...
Oh little bug B is didy, and i only affects a few people, lets work on somthing more fun...
oh dear, little bug C has made A and B very apparent.. we should fix them.. but wait, people now think A and B are features or intended and changing them makes them upset..
Do you understand why this needs to be sorted as soon as possible? you've already come to expect it.. Now if it had been a stealth fix, then you'd suddenly be overweight for now reason you could see, you stop carrying as much and everyones happy..
If we leave the little things for more fun features, everyone gets upset. This weight problem needs to be sorted out now that it has been identifyed. Before anymore things are added, like more weapons types with DoY, and cannons from DoY weighing more than double what standards do because tanks would think it a bug and scream...
So the little things must be fixed, before the fun things can be added.
bibliotequa
19-08-03, 05:45
No kimmy, psis do need eyes and backbones, maybe not to give ppw, but at least to give PSI POWER (the main skill) mst, and maybe a bit of apu or ppu. Maybe if i had a backbone that gave +5 PSI POWER like all other classes do, i wouldnt have to pop in drugs every time i die to use my power armor, on the other hand capped tanks dont need drugs to use their pa, nor do capped spies, (im talking about the <insert main skill here> 115 pa, well spies only have one atm right?)
Back on topic, yeah, Raise the weight of the cannons, and lower the weight of ammo, its just so it looks realistic, and since when does a pistol weigh 2 kilos? O_o isnt that a tad heavy... more like 1... but w/e cant make it too easy for the pes and spies i guess.
They won't fix the weights, this thread is a lost cause. Just like
they wont increase the stats on rare dropped weapons, my
thread was 5 stars and 90% of the 130 people voted for it.
i'd shit myself if they do adjust it, i won't count on it so don't
waste your breathe.
l8s
No Kimmy, you are dead wrong in this.
Tanks are masters of the resistance, constitution, which means having hight resists and a lot of health to compensate the lack of psi buffs. Their health is based 50% in body health and 50% in cons main skill.
Psi's are masters of the mind in psionic powers, which means our life, effectivity, chances to survive, our resistance and the only resource to compensate our low health is the PSI, our mana.
As tanks do not need to nerf weapons or resists to have capped (595) or almost capped health, we seem in need to chose damage/rof/range or mana, which is plain wrong.
The firsts nerfs in psi use (before affected mana 30%, now 15%), and psi boosters (before instant, now reload time) were directed to hybrids, because pure monks had more mana, and that's the way intended by KK. In many situations, and I play my monk as main char most of the time, I have felt the lack of enought mana to chain cast, to outdamage other players, or even to have a decent RoF.
After we empty the mana pool... well you already know what happens, and that's simply a flaw; a monk should make a difference in mana over any other class, without the dependancy of psi 3 to have decent damage in spells.
I feel something is wrong when I cast a holy antibuff and my mana pool is depleted, or if I fail I'm useless for the next 10 seconds.
bibliotequa
19-08-03, 06:11
They also need to fix item descriptions, for example every pa says "Duranium Armor" under info... O_o just a thought...
Originally posted by FBI
They won't fix the weights, this thread is a lost cause. Just like
they wont increase the stats on rare dropped weapons, my
thread was 5 stars and 90% of the 130 people voted for it.
i'd shit myself if they do adjust it, i won't count on it so don't
waste your breathe.
l8s
omg dude be patient.
I think that the best argument for not changing the weights is the ripple effect it may have. If cannons suddenly weigh more then tanks will loose out a little on damage output. If this damage drop is too much the other classes will be able to PWN them. As it is a realatively well made PE or APU can either PWN or come quite close to PWNing a tank of a similar level. This will lead to a series of groans and moans from the tank class that they are getting PWNed too much. (And we all know that if you whine enough in NC you get what you want.)
That's just one example, any way you slice it you can't really predict the exact outcome of modifying weights. They'd need to make like 20+ minor adjustments to get the balance right again (that translates to like 20+ patches). Of course that's what a beta test would be for . . . but wait aren't we still in beta?
Originally posted by KimmyG
Last thing we need is endless casting cause of capped mana. Pop boosters at the right time and you should never run out of mana.
Doesn't sound like you have any "real" experience as an apu.
EDIT: In reference to the thread, what's wrong with decreasing weapon weight?
:confused:
Originally posted by Arcadius
Doesn't sound like you have any "real" experience as an apu.
EDIT: In reference to the thread, what's wrong with decreasing weapon weight?
:confused:
There not taking about decreaing the weapon weight of spys or PE there want for some reason to increase the weapon wieght of the CS to the point wear a tank will have to loss HC to be affective.
Anyway go the fuck ahead give monks a +5 apu +5 mst eye and a +5 psi backbone with +5 PSW make is so monks can cap there spells and have a full mana pot and bring back insta boosters.
Where will that get monks nowhere cause it will make them insane and that will bring the nerf the monks threads then they will be brought down lower than they were before.
Anyway cast antibuff slam a booster right after you will have alot of mana by the time its done and I can launch alot of HL with my mana pot if you wanna be a soloest and not run with PPu support thats fine just dont bring the class up then down.
ericdraven
19-08-03, 10:24
OMG this is funny.. from 100 nerf threads there are maybe two about tanks and look at them.. crying like babies.. poor tanks, ooooch... :lol:
Maybe if there will be more nerf tank-threads all tanks will get used to it (like monks already are)? ;)
Helen Angilley
19-08-03, 12:02
Originally posted by bibliotequa
They also need to fix item descriptions, for example every pa says "Duranium Armor" under info... O_o just a thought...
Lupus is working on that, which is nice of him. :)
Anyway...maybe if the Heavy Weapon Tanks weren't so bloody focused on "maxing" out every weapon then there wouldn't be a problem. o_O
I've played a Heavy Weapons Tank to about STR base 80 so the "play a Tank helen1112" argument will be.....eh, sod it. I'll do this in a way you'll understand:
"STFU11 IM BER11 TANKS ENED BERF1"
There we go.
greendonkeyuk
19-08-03, 12:38
hmm valid points made on all sides here, i agree with the tanks who say they dont want a hc nerf..... i mean thats what we'd sacrifice if they bumped weights of weapons up.... however i do also agree totally with what the spies are saying about hitech combat, as a spy i gotta have 80 odd points in hitech combat at base and then the bonus from imps on top to use the fl and disruptor etc..... there would have been no point in being a rifle spy if all i wanted was a pain easer and theres no other lowtech rifles out there.... are there? I play all four classes (the joy of a 4 char server) and i think im fairly confident in suggesting improvements for all classes.....
how about tech combat/mental steadiness contributes to damage output on weapons/spells?
i mean if 5 points put into that (regardless of rank/level) gave 1 point of apu/ppu or hc/rc/pc?
Tanks could then afford their extra points in tra as could spies and pes and monks would be able to release some apu/ppu into ppw.....
any thoughts?
i think you should wait with complaining about psi mana until teh crahn golve is out
ericdraven
19-08-03, 12:51
Originally posted by greendonkeyuk
how about tech combat/mental steadiness contributes to damage output on weapons/spells?
MST *DID* contribute to the damage some patches ago, i don't know when (and why) they removed this, tho..
greendonkeyuk
19-08-03, 12:55
i thought that was the case.... well in which case HOW ABOUT THEY BRING IT BACK! In a world of specialisation it seems downright hypocritical to have a skill that has no function whatsoever contributin to damage/rof/range etc....
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
"STFU11 IM BER11 TANKS ENED BERF1"
Looks like I am getting old... no idea what that means. :D
I agree pistols should be lightest, then rifles, and cannons heaviest. Maybe just give the cannons 120% the current weight of the rifles, and pistols 50% of the current weight of the rifles. That should not hit the tanks too much.
fair enough if you raise the weight on cannons is dont matter to me.
I personally have enough carry load to carry plenty of ammo and all armor and maybe a turret, there is no need to have pure HC you do no more damage on a weapon than anyone else.
I cap all HC weps
I have better resist force than most people
and I can carry stuff without being overloaded.
Andy
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