View Full Version : CRT or LCD?
Ok, now that I have my new system and everything is working, I have decided that I want to get a new monitor. This hp mx70 just isn't cutting it for me.
I want to buy a new 17" monitor, I just don't know if I should buy a flat panel LCD or flat display CRT.
I prefer to run my desktop at 1280 x 1024 but the highest refresh rate I can get with my monitor, even at 1024 x 768, is 60Hz.
Don't ask me why, I just want to run at a better refresh rate.
So, once again, I take my hardware woes to my trusted friends at the Neocron forums for their neverending humor and honest answers.
So, LCD or CRT and why, what brand, blah, blah?
Thanks, in advance, for all assistance.
ElfinLord
I would say CRT, because it's more flexible, but then my experience of LCD displays is limited to my laptop, and the display on that isn't very good. :)
My company sells them both so i have a lot of comparison experience.. If you wanna do a lot of gaming.. stick with CRT.
Cliffraiser
17-08-03, 14:36
CRT defenatly. if u have a high framerate on a LCD screen it still seems ur fps is low cuz on lcd screen if u look around fast it all gets wuzzy .
MortuusLupus
17-08-03, 14:37
I've got a 17" LCD, it's quite nice. You really need to check your screen at the store for dead pixels, tho. I got mine online, and there's only one, but it's a bright green one about two inches from the right, 4 fromt he top.
It took me a while to get used to it, but that's because I was using a big 19" CRT at the time, at 1600x1200. The LCD saves me a hell of a lot of space, though, and it's a lot easier to pack up and move when I'm going to and from college.
If money's an issue, though, get a CRT, you can probably get a good quality 19" or 21" CRT for the same price as a 17" LCD
Heh I'm on an LCD flatscreen... made my games look alot crispier than on previous monitors... and yeah it takes awhile to get used to the 'wuzzy' thing as Cliff described it, but LCD's are still pretty good.
Biggest probs with LCDs atm :
1) Optimal res or lower quality interpolated image. If you buy a 1280x1024 screen you will have to live with that res forever. This can suck if you upgrade you graphics card.
2) Higher screen reaction times = "wuzzyness"
3) HDTV support and digital inputs are still very poorly implemented if there at all even on top-end units. It may seem trivial now but in a year or two it will really bite.
If you are a gamer I'd go CRT still unless you really need the desk space.
TFTs have a sharper and better quality picture than a CRT, also the screen is bigger than the equivalent size of a CRT.
(e.g a 15" TFT is has the same screen size as a 17"CRT, and the picture goes right to the edge of the screen area) :)
Only problem is you cant have as high resolutions, I have to use 1024x768 on my TFT/LCD, any lower and it it looks awfull, any higher and it just wont work. I dont mind though because I still get a better picture than I do on a CRT at double that, plus you get a totaly smooth output from a TFT, so non of that flickering between frames you get from CRT.
If money isnt an issue go for a TFT, CRTs are slowly being phased out and made obsolete.
Vampire222
17-08-03, 15:28
buy a fat 19" or 21" Crt monitor, much better for gaming than lcd...
If you are using your computer for gaming (like you probably are ;)), watching movies or for anything else which includes fast graphics you should go for CRT.
The most important problems of LCD monitors have already been said which are the resolution thing (you have to stick to the resolution the monitor is meant to be used or the image quality might drop), so called ghost image effect (makes the screen all blur if the image changes quickly like in FPS games), dead pixels (can be very annoying). But then there's also the fact that the colors in LCDs are cold unlike in CRTs where the colors are nice warm and thus your eyes might like more of the CRTs image. The good thing in LCDs is the image quality which is very good, but the best CRTs comes very close to LCDs image quality so that probably isn't the reason to buy a LCD.
Samsung makes very good monitors and they are also very cheap (good and cheap is something you very rarely get). I have had Samsung SyncMaster 950p (19" non-flat monitor, viewable image size: 18") for over year, maybe two years now and it is really good monitor: good image quality, good and well working settings (i.e. you can remove moire effect totally) and so on. Though it's discontinued by now and there's better models available.
Check www.samsungmonitor.com for more information about Samsung's monitors.
PS. If you don't have problem with space, buy a 19" monitor. I did and after a while I thought why I bought only 19" not 21" ;). And also get a monitor which has recommended resolution of atleast 1280x1024 at 85Hz or 100Hz so the screen won't flicker with that resolution (or it does but you won't notice it).
I'd go for a TFT saves lots of space and energy. Next to that, it doesn't produce as much heat.
As for the fuzzyness, I think you just have to get a decent screen and you don't have a problem. I've had some guests playing on my screen and they were all very pleasantly surprised. No fuzzyness at all. People saying that might want to have a look at the new generation of screens.
Most TFT screens ship with analog and digital connectors. Some even put a composite or s-video on it.
Regarding colors: they are much better then I've seen on a lot of CRTs. Of course there are some CRTs that beat TFTs, but they are expensive too.
Last point is the resolution. Some screen already do 1600x1200 but they are quite expensive. I do everything on 1280x1024, which is good enough for me. If I have to scale down, the image is still crisp. Even booting Linux text mode is crisp :-)
Bottom line: I've swapped from 21" CRT to 18.1" TFT for 2 years already. Wouldn't go back to a CRT ever again.
When you go and look for screen, be sure to check some decent brands. Most of the good brands deliver a screen without errors. Next to that, some also get you a 2 or 3 year on site swap out service, which I like. When I'm paying a lot for a screen, I want to be sure that I've got some service as well. However, be prepared to shell out upto 500 Euros or so for a screen (which can actually do 1600x1200 in analog mode, but only 1280x1280 in digital mode).
CRT>LCD
trust me, ive tried them both.
MjukisDjur
17-08-03, 16:24
Itth is right... The textures look a lot more alive with a CRT than a LCD. I used to run neocron on a 18" eizo but it looks really bad compared to my 21" CRT... Also, in the wastelands there is a kind of "noise" in the picture on the lcd. Maybe its the hardware but in the city, normal desktop etc the picture looks allright. Go for the crt if you want quality. LCD for saving up that precious desk space :)
Edit:
And Itth, the Hybrid is fine as it is. :)
Its so damn wonderful to watch the forum and not see any "monks are overpowered" posts...
CRTs tend also is used alot (IE if you leave your system on and don't have the monitor shut down, or have it on 10 hours a day) to get dim over the course of a few years. if you get a good quality LCD, the worst you'll get is a dead pixel or two. Also, LCD monitors have come a long way in the last year or so in terms of the "ghosting" and "fuzzyness" outside of their native resolution, the one I currently own (p500b from CTX) is crisp for gaming with no ill effects even at 1600x1200. I'd reccomend the LCD personally, but only if you plan on springing for a good name one, you really do get what you pay for with LCDs.
Originally posted by Nasher
TFTs have a sharper and better quality picture than a CRT,
Wrong. A top of the range CRT has a much clearer picture whan an LCD, although colours are much better on an LCD
Originally posted by Nasher
also the screen is bigger than the equivalent size of a CRT.
(e.g a 15" TFT is has the same screen size as a 17"CRT, and the picture goes right to the edge of the screen area) :)
True but you pay for it.
Originally posted by Nasher
Only problem is you cant have as high resolutions, I have to use 1024x768 on my TFT/LCD, any lower and it it looks awfull, any higher and it just wont work.
Wrong. The optimal resolution depends on the screen, I have a 20" LCD on my development machine running at 2048x1536, and that because I chose the screen by the resolution I wanted.
Originally posted by Nasher
I dont mind though because I still get a better picture than I do on a CRT at double that, plus you get a totaly smooth output from a TFT, so non of that flickering between frames you get from CRT.
The colours are sharper on the LCD, but if you've ever used a top end CRT you would never say the picture is better.
Originally posted by Nasher
If money isnt an issue go for a TFT, CRTs are slowly being phased out and made obsolete.
CRT are not being phased out and won't be for a long time. The technology in LCD's is not at a good enough level.
I work for Cambridge Universiy, who are partners of CDT (Cambridge Display Technology), who invented the technology.
We recently did a study with them on the pro's and con's of using LCD's on all machines on our network.
Their are lots of pro's for LCD screen, such as less eye strain because of different draw methods, but for a gamer the technology is not at a level where is the better choice over CRT.
EDIT: If you do go for an LCD anyway make sure you get a high end one. You will have less of a problem with dead pixels.
For every draw line you have redundant lines. When a pixel goes bad redundant lines take over, that way you don't see dead pixels. The more you pay, the more redundant lines you get, the low end one's will have 1, or maybe 2 if your lucky. Some really cheap one's have no redundant lines, and you find dead pixels as soon as you turn it on. My 20" cost well over £1000UK and after 6 months still not a dead pixel in sight, but I would never use it for gaming.
@griffion (and others) -
LCD "fuzziness" is caused by the decay time of the matrix which has improved a lot but is still an order of magnitude greater than that for phosphor. All LCDs will always suffer from it to some extent. The problem is compounded by the fact the refresh rates are lower (same cause, different effect). Newer models are better but it's there still. OLED is better again but still v. new and v.expensive.
True many models do have digital connectors but they are v. low quality - mainly incomplete standard support. Some people are already complaining and it will only get worse as people push them harder. When HDTV gains momentum they will improve I'm sure.
Res - a 1280 unit will do a reasonable job of VGA because its exactly 2xH so you only get vertical interpolation, hence linux boot is crisp.
Colours - LCDs present higher temp colours and have higher contrast than LCD => better.
@mattimeo - LCDs burn much faster than CRT these days.
Originally posted by jernau
Colours - LCDs present higher temp colours and have higher contrast than LCD => better.
Typo there. Which one did you mean?
Take the 500 dollars you would use to buy a big 17" LCD, and spend 300 on a nice big trinitron. Then spend the money you saved on buying a bigger desk. Problem solved.
I think some people are confusing LCD with TFT :P
TFT (plasma screens) do NOT blur with movement like LCDs, moving graphics on a TFT are actually clearer or at least the same as on a CRT. LCD and TFT are two different technologys.
(LCDs are what are on most low-mid range laptops and cheaper "flat screens")
Also, TFTs dont "burn" :)
Originally posted by Futureman
Take the 500 dollars you would use to buy a big 17" LCD, and spend 300 on a nice big trinitron. Then spend the money you saved on buying a bigger desk. Problem solved.
Good solution, I like that. :)
Voodoochicken
17-08-03, 23:41
maybe useful.
(since this post turned out to be massive.. I put the end/conclusion at the begining.) :)
3rd part: my advice.
1) If you aren't going to move it around and aesthetics and space aren't a problem for you/ you're mainly using it to play Neocron.
Buy a decent 17" flat screen CRT, with refresh rates above 80hz.
-cheap, not too big (when compared to 19" CRTs :)), you shouldn't see the screen flickering above 80hz. Compared to your old monitor, the picture quality will be astounding.
2) If you have enough spare cash/space is an issue/you don't mind a little blur/you want a sexy-looking monitor, etc.
Buy a decent 17" TFT monitor (probably a Tn+Film screen).
****
1st bit (my experience):
Ok.. I recently swapped my old 14/15" iiyama CRT (max res 1280 x 1024 @ 75 Hz.. i think, though it made an annoying hum)...
... for a 19" iiyama MVA TFT LCD @ 1280 x 1024 res.
I play bf1942 at 1280 x 1024 and have no problems killing lots of peeps. However, if I spin around quickly the textures "blur" (which I think is more realistic.. though it could put you at a disadvantage compared to a CRT user/give some people a headache).
It has plenty of constrast/brightness/good colours.
However... because of the way MVA works, if there is a fast moving patch of dark colour surrounded by mid-light colours then you get smudges of "black".
Note: for different screen types.. it might be light colours on mid/dark surroundings that are a problem.. as they work differently. I'm not sure though.
So.. I can't play neocron in 1280 x 1024 res, because everyone wears dark clothes, whilst all the surrounding textures are mid-light colours. ie.. People "smudge"/blur very badly when they are moving.
Instead, I play in 1024 x "blah" and don't zoom the image in. ie.. . I don't use all of the screen.
This seems to (pretty much) stop the blurring and with a 19" TFT screen the image is still plenty big enough.
Things I like about this monitor:
1)
It looks incredibly sexy (matt black finish with blue power led + not to mention how great the screen looks when it's switched off. Yes, this monitor looks like it's eating my soul = good.
2)
The screen is large, but the monitor fits nicely on my desk (80 cm deep x 140 cm long), leaving over 50 cm depth left to fit my keyboard, etc. + I can push the desk up to the wall if I want, thereby saving space in the room.
(CRT monitors with equivalent screen size are massive.)
3)
Great colours/brightness/contrast, despite not being a CRT.
4)
I feel less paranoid about being mutated by CRT screen radiation. ;)
Things I don't like:
1)
Very expensive technology (MVA), plus I paid for some features that I probably won't use.. ie. Rotating screen/USB hub on the monitor.
(but.. this was my choice.. it's not the monitor's fault :))
2)
Blur in NEOCRON @ res of 1280 x 1024. (I have no problems in other games/bf1942 though). So, naturally, I blame NC's crappy gfx engine and net code. ;)
3)
Max resolution of 1280 x 1024, whilst not an issue now, may be in the future.
****
2nd part (technical)
1a) Every TFT LCD creen has a native res. Basically, this is how many pixels it has.
1b) Generally, the higher the native res of a screen, the higher the response time is.
Important: You definately need a response time of < 25 ms to play fps style games.
1c) Anyone that has a TFT screen with > 1280 x 1024 native res, also has a response time > 25 ms, and it will suck balls for games.
2a)
There are different types of TFT LCD displays.. TN+Film, IPS, MVA.
2b)
The latest generation of TN+Film screen have the lowest response times (around 16 ms) and good brightness, however, I can't comment on how well they display colours/contrasts of light and dark. (ie.. does using high brightness mean it looks washed out/not display the darker shades well? Answer: I dunno)
(When I was looking, it looked like any screens over 17" were IPS or MVA).
2c)
An "important" difference in the types is what colour a pixel looks when it is "dead". eg (as far as I know) on TN+Film a dead pixel is white, but on MVA a dead pixel is black.
2d)
TN+Film is the cheapest, but not necessarily the worst.. ie fastest response time.
***
guywithnoears
18-08-03, 00:30
the technology is complete different. the 60hz that you get from an lcd isn't the same as the low 60hz you get from a crt. 60hz is enough to play about every fps games.
I have a dell 18.1" LCD monitor and I'm loving it. Running it at 1280x1024 @ 60hz too and I'm playing games like CS and Soldier of Fortune 2 and they run smoothly. Got this monitor for a great deal too...tell me 250 bucks isnt' a good deal for a 18.1" lcd monitor :D
Originally posted by Nasher
I think some people are confusing LCD with TFT :P
TFT (plasma screens) do NOT blur with movement like LCDs, moving graphics on a TFT are actually clearer or at least the same as on a CRT. LCD and TFT are two different technologys.
(LCDs are what are on most low-mid range laptops and cheaper "flat screens")
Also, TFTs dont "burn" :)
Sorry but every single part of that is wrong.
I haven't seen a non-TFT LCD monitor for years (and even then they were rare).
TFT is simple a class of LCD. It's better than "passive" LCD types like CSTN, DSTN and HPA but it still suffers all the issues listed above. As voodoochicken says there are also several sub-types of TFT. Plasma is an entirely different tech again and has nothing in common with LCD panels other than being "flat".
All screens burn.
@guywithnoears - the reason flicker is less visible on LCDs is because of the long pixel decay. In effect they never get a chance to blank between frames. This is also why they blur though.
Personally I'd never pay for a Dell monitor as they always use the lowest-cost supplier. We've had hundreds and hundreds of them at work and they've all either been poor quality by design or gone to crap in <1 year.
@futureman - top plan :)
If you are looking at spending serious cash on an LCD I'd seriously suggest reading this btw : http://www4.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/index.html
guywithnoears
18-08-03, 05:16
who cares, the screen's really clear and it doesn't flicker when you play games. that's all there is to it...lol.
had this for a year now..and yet no dead pixels. it depends on luck also for when you order an LCD, some lcds come with 1 or a few dead pixels on arrival and the manufacturers have different policies on how many dead pixels should an lcd have before they replace it or repair it.
i didn't listen to people before i bought my lcd, i just went on and researched it myself. as luck turned out though, i'm still enjoying this baby.
Wow, lotta people responding, are the servers down ? jk
Ive got a 21'' 100hz CRT & i love it, total emersion. same price as pissy 17'' LCD.
Oh but if your made of money get a 109cm plasma (The Fujitsu Rocks) {this is not an add, a friend has one & yes it rocks}.
edit: Sorry mispelt rocks, should read RoXxOrS
I would buy a CRT moniter. If you want a good brand try ViewSonic (http://www.viewsonic.com/) All the view sonic moniters i've had have worked for longer than all the other brands i've had, and the display is good quality. They make both CRT and LCD moniters if you decide with a LCD.
Thanks to everyone for your input.
I have another questoin.
Which monitor type performs better for frame rates and such, or does it not really matter?
Thanks for your help.
ElfinLord
two words,
Trini
Tron
you get what you pay for. Its got a really great color and extreeme refresh rates.
Originally posted by Futureman
two words,
Trini
Tron
you get what you pay for. Its got a really great color and extreeme refresh rates.
It's one word ;). It's also a Sony TM but you'll find the same tech in some other systems with similar names (eg Diamondtron).
The only downside is they are more delicate - if you move your monitor a lot (and go CRT) get a standard type tube.
Originally posted by jernau
It's one word ;). It's also a Sony TM but you'll find the same tech in some other systems with similar names (eg Diamondtron).
The only downside is they are more delicate - if you move your monitor a lot (and go CRT) get a standard type tube.
sorry jernau, i know its one word. Its just so i could fit it into the two words cliche. Yeah the downside is that they are extremely heavy. Much heavier than a normal monitor of the size. I think it takes extra glass to make a flat screen. Mine isn't completely flat, but if you look at another monitor afterwards it will look like a fishbowl. The truth is that there are only three types of CRTs One is trinitron, made by sony which is also diamondtron renamed. IBM also sold trinitrons. The other two i forget but the basic idea is the rest of the hardware is what sets them apart. But if its a trinitron or if it has an apperature grille instead of a shadow mask its good
Originally posted by Futureman
sorry jernau, i know its one word. Its just so i could fit it into the two words cliche. Yeah the downside is that they are extremely heavy. Much heavier than a normal monitor of the size. I think it takes extra glass to make a flat screen. Mine isn't completely flat, but if you look at another monitor afterwards it will look like a fishbowl. The truth is that there are only three types of CRTs One is trinitron, made by sony which is also diamondtron renamed. IBM also sold trinitrons. The other two i forget but the basic idea is the rest of the hardware is what sets them apart. But if its a trinitron or if it has an apperature grille instead of a shadow mask its good
heh - yeah I guessed, just thought I'd give google a better chance of helping him :).
The big risk in moving them is that aperature grilles are more delicate as they aren't solid like a shadow mask. Any deformation in the frame can destroy the tube. The Trinitron design is flatter vertically by design not necessarily horizontally. Newer models however get almost totally flat in both directions using other tricks.
Originally posted by Nasher
TFTs have a sharper and better quality picture than a CRT, also the screen is bigger than the equivalent size of a CRT.
(e.g a 15" TFT is has the same screen size as a 17"CRT, and the picture goes right to the edge of the screen area) :)
Only problem is you cant have as high resolutions, I have to use 1024x768 on my TFT/LCD, any lower and it it looks awfull, any higher and it just wont work. I dont mind though because I still get a better picture than I do on a CRT at double that, plus you get a totaly smooth output from a TFT, so non of that flickering between frames you get from CRT.
If money isnt an issue go for a TFT, CRTs are slowly being phased out and made obsolete.
Get a good flat trinitron sony 19" :) thats as sharp and crisp as any TFT i have seen :) incuding some 4 times the price of the sony CRT :D :D u can also run is at insane resolutions and refresh rates hehe
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