Spies are unbalanced

[Shadow Walker]

The requirement of the interesting items are way too high you almost need to cap your character to use them. There is almost no middle/high items, they are all low or very high level (there is only medium belt who is medium level maybe).

You should change stealth use, let the stealthed shot at least one critical hit, or/and let them stealth in front of the mob...

I also hope the assassination suit will be lot better than that crap of anti radiation suit...

[SilentGravity]

NERF THE SPIEZZZZ!111oneoneone

No really, the reason why they are that high is so PE's can't use em...without drugs....

[VVerevvolf]

Spys are balanced.
They die very fast when the enemy knows your weakness, but in return you are powerful over a long distance.
Ever seen a Low Level Tank whining he wants a PA with Str 30? No. So quit your whining and get stronger.

[Rade]

yeah spies are unbalanced, they are too good.

[Berzerker]

I agree VVerevvolf. Spys are about right.

[greendonkeyuk]

Originally posted by Rade
yeah spies are unbalanced, they are too good.


yeah you just gotta use that 100 intel you got there to some good use, the anti rad suit is an absolute godsend to spies. Show me one spy in this entire game who DOESNT want 117 xray resist.....

Spies arent quite balanced, we do need a slight tweak still to be perfect, mainly in the psi area. id rather change some of that intel for extra psi use or con personally. Not a HUGE change just a little one. like maybe 5-10 levels out of int and into con/psi.

The spy is similar in style to an apu monk, high damage output/shite defence. The thing is our damage output is not as high as an apu monk and but our defence is (with the exception of piercing resist) is weaker. 5 less con levels, same intel and same prime requisite (dex/psi) therefore we do get slightly worse defence. Plus monk armour gives some nice energy resists.

As a spy with our measly strength we can only wear battlevest 3 at best. We do have access to psi armour but with a psi level of 20 its not the uber-armour, nor would i expect this, but imo i think spies need a higher psi level than pes do, perhaps pes could have a more con levels to compensate. My pe isnt capped at the moment (rank 55), my other chars are almost capped (all within 10 levels of cap on their last stat lines) except my monk. hes rank 50. ive played extensively all of my chars and this i think is the only real change id like to see brought in.

[Forget My Name]

Range?

You're kidding me, in this game? there is no range due to lag, warping and graphical clipping.


I want to see any spy take down anyone of equal rank using any weapon that they can weild at max distance.


I bet you that the person at max distance will close in on you before you can get a few shots off that HIT.

I have a disruptor, and I have 165 WL. I aim for shit on this gun. Aiming is turd low. Damage is nice, BUT you need to HIT to deal damage. I get reemed by pistol PE's cuz they fire soo damn fast with anything, by the time i have the circle on them, they move one centimeter in any direction and my circle is lost. Forget about close battles.

[Shadow Walker]

Don't speak about things you don't know Werewolf I'm 55/58 spy.
What is your level buddy? I'm a hacker rifle man, not a constructor. I'm always exposed and that's why I'm complaining because I tried all the other classes and the spy is the more less balanced for the moment... I keep on with this character because when he'll be caped he'll be lot more intersting to play.

People don't bother to write to just reply "spy are balanced", it's not interesting.

[Shadow Walker]

I really agree with you Forget my name, you need the rare sniper to fight from distance, and if the one you shoot see you it's finished you can't aim him a second and third time to kill him...

[VVerevvolf]

Mr Shadow Walker, I have a 68/58 Rifle-Hacker Spy and a 3/62 Constructor-Repper-Driver-Heavy Combat Spy, both on Pluto.
Guess what? I can kill Tanks on an open terrain. I hit them once or twice, stealth, find a new position, and then I attack again.
They have 2 chances: Flee or die. Only very litte tanks get me that way.

[hnlecter]

Spys are fine if you ask me (But please GIVE US OUR FUCKING POWER ARMOR!!!). How many next weeks does tangent do? And why did the monks get theirs in 3 days while it is taking spys 3+ months. /end rant

What I would like to see is the clipping distance removed. It would make those really long distance weapons worth ALOT because no one would see you. I would kk would stop the dumb clipping distance just for people with low spec computers.

Figures when I buy a cool new computer I play a game that restricts it.

And the poster above me is correct with a capped PE I can pop off 55 damage a burst to unbuffed tanks and about 33 to a buffed tank. The only thing that usually gets me is those monks who double cast *cough exploit* and can hit me with poisn and HL at the same time then you are fucked beyond belief. Unless casting two spells at the same time is a feature...

[Archeus]

Originally posted by Forget My Name
I want to see any spy take down anyone of equal rank using any weapon that they can weild at max distance.


I bet you that the person at max distance will close in on you before you can get a few shots off that HIT.

A good sniper spy can drop anyone long before they know where they are or can get to them.

It is actually funny taking people out with a sniper rifle. They are kind of like "That's odd my health dropped? but there is no one around? Ooh it dropped again! ....".

Sniper spy with stealth and nearby hovertec = GOD Mode.

[greendonkeyuk]

Originally posted by Shadow Walker
I really agree with you Forget my name, you need the rare sniper to fight from distance, and if the one you shoot see you it's finished you can't aim him a second and third time to kill him...

pain easer > silent hunter


yeah you got the swirly, but the RoF EATS the silent hunter and the range is just as good. Also you dont have all the irritating scope bugs like you do with the silent hunter.

p.s forget my name.... do you use stealth?

[Shadow Walker]

I'm pretty interested by knowing how a Psy can be 68/58... Without using drugs...

Mhhh is the pain easer have more than 2 km range? I don't think so... Have had them in hand the pain easer was around 600 m range and the silent hunter 2,1 km...

By the way, using stealth is good, but you can't stealth in front of mob, you can't shoot stealthed, you can't heal than stealth!!

And if you are not a pker, if you just want to depfend yourself so you don't ambush people it's harder... The only way to protect yourself is a reputation of Stalker!!

Anyway to come back to the requirment 115 for a suit is caping your cha (or almost, you need 97 base level), so why do tank need only 90 for a good suit? Why do the spy only need 90 for a good suit?

[nonamebrandeggs]

I like my spy...

[greendonkeyuk]

Originally posted by Shadow Walker
I'm pretty interested by knowing how a Psy can be 68/58... Without using drugs...

Mhhh is the pain easer have more than 2 km range? I don't think so... Have had them in hand the pain easer was around 600 m range and the silent hunter 2,1 km...

By the way, using stealth is good, but you can't stealth in front of mob, you can't shoot stealthed, you can't heal than stealth!!

And if you are not a pker, if you just want to depfend yourself so you don't ambush people it's harder... The only way to protect yourself is a reputation of Stalker!!

Anyway to come back to the requirment 115 for a suit is caping your cha (or almost, you need 97 base level), so why do tank need only 90 for a good suit? Why do the spy only need 90 for a good suit?


To the thread starter......
what level is your spy? i mean dex intel psi etc....?

whats the point in havin 2km range when clipping distance is abut half that............. o_O

as i said....... pain easer > silent hunter

and yes ive used both.

the idea of stealth is defensive....... ie run like hell, hide heal buff and go back.
Ray of god first love and disruptor are all sweet stealth weapons.

See the tank in the distance.........
stealth in BLAM! hit him for all you got, soon as he catches on STEALTH out again.

Its called hit and run dude..... guerilla style. you aint gonna beat anyone in a one on one, but played correctly, the spy will own all of you.....

tanks strength needs to be 95 to use power armour.

this isnt power armour (the anti rad suit)

when pa comes out for the spy it will be the same as monk pa, ie 85 dex, 95 dex, 105 dex etc......

[Itth]

Originally posted by Shadow Walker
I'm pretty interested by knowing how a Psy can be 68/58... Without using drugs...

try using a capped FL.. u be lke 78***

my spy got like 150%dmg on FL and already 72/60.. screws my exp :o

[greendonkeyuk]

spies get nutty combat ranks nr cap

[Fez]

i can get to 85/68 on my spy w/ a fl ...

[Futureman]

Originally posted by Itth
try using a capped FL.. u be lke 78***

my spy got like 150%dmg on FL and already 72/60.. screws my exp :o


what do you mean? I didn't think XP was dependent on rank? I just thought if you killed a mutant gunman 250 xp (or whatever it is) when you are 0/2 it is no bigger than if you are 60/60

as far as spies getting nutty ranks i can agree with that.

My spy has 59/60 with two stars. My dex is 108 and int is like 87 or so, but i only have a RoG, and an unslotted PE. I don't feel very powerful at all.

[nonamebrandeggs]

Ranks don't mean shit, it's the skill that counts... pay no attention to combat ranks.

[Futureman]

Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
Ranks don't mean shit, it's the skill that counts... pay no attention to combat ranks.

Well yeah i agree with that in some cases, but you gotta admit a guy weilding a CS ain't gonna loose to my noob spy with his Tangent Assault Rifle no matter how skilled i am. in my opinion, spies don't really have a chance till they get stealth in anyway. Before that.... its tough. Just gotta beg for mercy

[Richard Blade]

What I see Shadow Walker saying mainly is about the mid level equipment gaps. Spies don't get anything really good until they are near capped. I think Tank and Monk armor has too high of requirements also. Tanks have a huge gap (between their ears)*cough* errm.. Yeah, huge gap in equipment at the 35 to 50 TL range, as I recall.(not to mention melee) Thus, I see that several Spy only weapons and tools are too high also. Or, need to be streamlined a little better. I'm not counting the 117xray armor either. That's a capped spy only thing.


And not to pick a fight with R.. err, the person who keeps saying spies are more powerful than PE's. Well duh! Now that the cat is out of the bag, I guess I can say this: Tanks are more powerful than PE's. Monks are more powerful the PE's. What's left? Oh, that's right, Spies are more powerful than PE's. Guess that's actually kind of subjective. You must be talking about only capped spies. Midlevel spies can't even compete with low level PE's. But, the statement that spies are more powerful than PE's is getting stagnent. PE's are the jack of all trades, master of none. I think KK got the balance right when it comes to every other class having one over on the PE's. I know you are a very good PE, change your tactics when fighting spies, and all those things they do better than you are for nothing. You will beat them handsdown. Or in Lexxuks case, pants down. ;)

[Futureman]

yeah some rifle spy stuff is utterly useless. Like any gatlin rifle is pratically pointless. Ever seen a spy use one? Bascially the Assault rifles are good up to Dex 50. From Dex 50 to Dex 75 its a really long and boring journey with the good old Tangent Assault rifle. Then comes the Tangent Epic Rifle, which helps lead into the other better tech weapons and rares. But shooting a WB with a TAR sucks, IMO and well it takes about 10 clips to kill one too

[Beanie McChimp]

my only character is a spy rifle/hacker/poker no matter what anyone says they are unbalanced either give us extreme protection or give us extreme damage but in op wars im kinda ok if i stay back a bit and sniper with my scoped DoY ray-gun rifle but i will certainly die like 3 times

[Cryotchekk]

nah spy's are fine at the mo, perfect, all that need to be done is get pa. con right, str right, dex right, int right, psi right. (it does seem a lil weird that the tangent blacksun and pulse laser doobry have higher reqs than the lib heh)

[Arcadius]

Originally posted by Archeus
A good sniper spy can drop anyone long before they know where they are or can get to them.

It is actually funny taking people out with a sniper rifle. They are kind of like "That's odd my health dropped? but there is no one around? Ooh it dropped again! ....".

Sniper spy with stealth and nearby hovertec = GOD Mode.


Yea you're absolutely correct.



I would like to see 2 changes implemented for spizzles, I mean spies.


1.Lower the TL on disruptor or FL, or boost the weapons.

2.Give spies more gadgets. Like a device where they can see all the names in the zone, in local, no matter where they are. Night vision. Disguise kit that temporarily changes faction, name, and rank. etc.... stuff like that. Like PSIS are the masters of the Supernatural, Spies should be the masters of the technological.

3.Give them better armor, to piss rade off. :p

[Rade]

Im all for giving the spies more james bond stuff. Then they wouldnt need to bother making weird drug setups which gives em leet armor, they can be fragile but potent at the same time.


About sniping and taking damage in neocron, which isnt really related to this... There needs to be a proper indication that you are taking. I mean seriously, I think I would notice getting a sniper bullet in my ass, as it is atm you can actually miss it if you are bussy doing something else, that is not the edge sniping should have. A big nice red flash of some sort when you are being hit would be nice, also gives players a nice panicky feeling when they are being hit.

[Arcadius]

Originally posted by Rade
they can be fragile but potent at the same time.




EXACTLY.




I know I know i'm a genius. :o

[PaulVinten]

Originally posted by Shadow Walker

Anyway to come back to the requirment 115 for a suit is caping your cha (or almost, you need 97 base level), so why do tank need only 90 for a good suit? Why do the spy only need 90 for a good suit?

erm, dunno what planet you on? With imps you can get +25 dex (even without rare imps), so you only need 90 dex...

[Rade]

...and the real spy PA is comming soon (tm), the anti rad suit is not a spy PA, its just flavor, good flavor but nevertheless...

[kurai]

Originally posted by PaulVinten
erm, dunno what planet you on? With imps you can get +25 dex (even without rare imps), so you only need 90 dex... I assume by "rare" you mean MC-5, otherwise your statement is incorrect.

Even if that is the the case ... you'll be a crap droning/driving/constructing spy, who can't shoot for shit.

Dead handy to have around :rolleyes:

[Psyco Groupie]

my spy was throwing some PEs around neofrag yesterday until he drugged for rolh and it was close .. when im capped im confident PEs wont be able to touch me! :D

[Itth]

i get +25 dex from imps.

would be +26 if i had a SA, well i dont.

edit: grammar ... cant belive i actually care

[Whiety Bulger]

The role of a spy is in the apartment constructing.

[nonamebrandeggs]

Whitey is stupid kthx.

[kurai]

Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
Whitey is stupid kthx. Possibly, but it's "Whiety" posting here.

Mind you - your general sentiment isn't wrong. :D

[Retro V]

+25 without rares : balance advancer (+5) motoric 3 (+5) mindcontrol 3 (+5) vehicle interface (+5) experimentalreflexbooster 4 (+5)

withthe exception of the first 2 u can buy these imps from shops for 30-40k - the mob-drop level 3 imps u can buy from runners for something like 50-100k

as for the ultimate spy class PKer , 2 words : PARTICLE NEMESIS
a decent droner setup gives plus 21 dex from imps and include 12 dex from 3 drugs from Taylors Biochem (so what if you're blind and cant walk straight - no need to go anywhere if u find a nice hiding spot) means u can create Xray destruction from a base dex of only 83 , which is not even 50 mill xp .

[Rade]

SA, SF, Bez 2, MOVEON, str heart 2, ref booster 4, beast, destrosol forte, AR armor, heavy energy belt, 3 pieces of inq armor, RoG or Fa or disruptor, deflector, shelter. Same HP as a private eye, better armor than a private eye, same spells as a private eye, better damage output than a private eye, and some low level tradeskills. PE are the jack of all trades? think again. Spies are leet.

This is an endgame template. I know.

[Arcadius]

Requires 2 drugs all the time and an mc5 chip part.



hrmm, not a "realistic" template IMO. WHich is why you see few spies doing it.

[Futureman]

what could Private Eyes acchieve if they had a setup that required two drugs all the time?

[Xypher]

I think that Rade's setup is quite plausable. The template is for dueling or non-duel PKing. When you're not trying to take someone out you don't need to take the 2 drugs. But for op fights dueling etc you bust out your drugs and suddenly make a PE pointless.

[Psyco Groupie]

wtf do u need inq armor ?

... that setup is gimp'd

[Arcadius]

Originally posted by Xypher
I think that Rade's setup is quite plausable. The template is for dueling or non-duel PKing. When you're not trying to take someone out you don't need to take the 2 drugs. But for op fights dueling etc you bust out your drugs and suddenly make a PE pointless.

But pes can cast psi SHIEELZ.



Quiet plausable? BLEH! How many people don't mind taking 2 drugs every single time they wanna fight?


Doesn't stealth give you uber flash if you take drugs while stealthing?

[Peeping Tom]

haha you should seen mine pluto spy setup :P 4-5 drugs for each pvp duel... 1-2 drugs if i got monk with..( but i never play on pluto anyway)
its similar setup to the one some one else posted a few days ago just twweked and gimped some more :P
p.s. i wouldt say spies are better than Pe's... imagine pe's with uber druged setup kicks ass, pe's can drug for better spells got better shelter more con points more str bla bla bla
K4F

[Retro V]

Originally posted by Futureman
what could Private Eyes acchieve if they had a setup that required two drugs all the time?

....what they've been doing all along :rolleyes: -- capped frequency weapons due to reduced agility recompensed by whiteflash (redflash hits the health) and more rarely tl 39 or tl 40 resist boosters like basic 3 or hazz 1 with destrosol forte

[Duder]

Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
I like my spy...


nerf teh spies!!!!!


They should make anti-stealth detector devices for spies, so they can stealth, and detect other stealthers.




Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
wtf do u need inq armor ?

... that setup is gimp'd

:rolleyes:

We have a winner here.

And yes, PEs need to take at least 1 drug, just to be on the same level of uberness as everyone else....weeee.

[Arcadius]

Poor PEs. They should get some new toys of their own.

[Promethius]

Just to be clear. All the people saying that spys suck over long distance and other complaints. Are you pure combat? Because honestly if you dislike the combat aspects of teh spys u must of realized ur not going to be as strong if you don't go pure combat.

I'm sure spys aren't bad if you build ur spy as a fighter and stop building items for fighters =P

[Xypher]

Have any of you combat oriented spies been having a high success rate when taking on other players? Or do you feel more times than not that you are just a human wall for about 30 seconds?

[Promethius]

Originally posted by Xypher
Have any of you combat oriented spies been having a high success rate when taking on other players? Or do you feel more times than not that you are just a human wall for about 30 seconds?

Well if i ever come back to the game i was thinking of making a combat spy. Unlock the true power of the devious spy's. None of that pussy stealth action either. I want to build a 'fighting' spy not one that can run away.

Also there are spys who can take an amazing ammount of hits. *glances at divide*. But i don't want to name names. We'll jsut leave it at that :p :angel: :lol:

[Rade]

Originally posted by Arcadius
Requires 2 drugs all the time and an mc5 chip part.



hrmm, not a "realistic" template IMO. WHich is why you see few spies doing it.

Im munching drugs and using more spells than I can fit in my qbelt to buff etc, and this is not in duels, this is in real fights. Its a damn hassle but it works, the guys from eXorcist got some first-hand experience of that yesterday. But the spies drugging and buffing is alot easier, he can fit all his stuff in the qbelt.

The PE drugging up for psi shield is semi-ok, problem is that you need to start swapping stuff in inventory each time you need to rebuff and have a damn hard time fitting the psi boosters in the qbelt. PEs can also reach the RoLH with another drug but that gimps the implant setup pretty bad, no PP resistor etc...



Originally posted by Psyco Groupie
wtf do u need inq armor ?

... that setup is gimp'd


Hahahaha ok. Sounds like you have a clue. If the setup is gimped then I wonder why Ive dueling tanks and kicking their ass like no tomorrow with that setup.

[Shadow Walker]

I should answer to the +25 with imps. The only people who can get that are doners, for a rifle you need distance Cpu 3, targeting computer 3, so you can only reach 18 without rare. Anyway 90 is not very far from caping...

I agree with people who ask more specific equipment for spies even if it's not directly combat related. If we can't really fight effectivly (or maybe you musn't even have any trading skills...), let us be usefull another way.

For the snipers clipping is not a problem I think the zoom let you see without clipping I think, but I have to make some experiences to be sure.

To come back to the subject I keep thinking the gap between low and high level equipment is WAY too important.

[Eddie]

Originally posted by Shadow Walker
For the snipers clipping is not a problem I think the zoom let you see without clipping I think, but I have to make some experiences to be sure.

Nope.. sniper rifles are same as scopes in that they only magnify a certain bit of the terrain - including the clipping plane.

What they should do is write better code that doesn't bother rendering ANYTHING outside the scope's field of view - and as such - less overhead - therefore they CAN afford to extend the clipping plane.

Eddie

[greendonkeyuk]

Originally posted by Shadow Walker
I should answer to the +25 with imps. The only people who can get that are doners, for a rifle you need distance Cpu 3, targeting computer 3, so you can only reach 18 without rare. Anyway 90 is not very far from caping...

to do what??

if youre pure combat then you can get insane wep lore/rc class for a rifler as ALL of your points are poured into them, then yes you can use the dex imps to get yourself up to enough dex to get the anti rad suit in!!!

[st0ckman]

I enjoy being a Spy it is definitely one of the more interesting classes to play. I am basically a hacker/stealther/sniper, however you can drop sniper coz you need a Silent Hunter to do damage and even that isn't that impressive. I have a 5 slot Commando and even that needs 3 shots to kill a low level character maybe 2 for another Spy.

The rate of fire is way to slow, the range is problematic coz you can get runners in your sights but they are invisible so when they move to the left or the right you cannot see them and can spend vital time trying to find them again. So basically drop the clipping, if you have a slower set up then thats what reducing the quality is for, i for one might be in this group of people but i would prefer game play please. Basically the best range for the Sniper rifles is about the same as any rifle, i can hit ppl with my Healing Light or RoG and do more damage over time.

Also another thing that really gets on my tits is when you get stuck in zoom mode with the sniper. This happened to my yesterday at a Syncon Lab OP fight againts Tir'Quatil (spelling). I was in the perfect position to get him, up on a hill that he could not get to coz i got there on my hovertec, then i get stuck in snipe and run around looking at green hillside wondering what direction i am running, then dead!! Things like this and sync bugs which are another favourite are making people inaffective especially for a spy coz if he is stuck in the game he generally will be dead coz of the silly resists. Or he might lose a 3 slot Disruptor and Pain Easer as i did the other day, not to mention all my armour and popped out imps coz if some other silly sync bug.

Get it sorted KK coz i am finding less and less reasons to be paying you money. Oh, and stop taking the piss with the Spy PA how much longer can 2 weeks be?? There is some principle involved here.

[dSerk]

Originally posted by greendonkeyuk
Spies arent quite balanced, we do need a slight tweak still to be perfect, mainly in the psi area. id rather change some of that intel for extra psi use or con personally. Not a HUGE change just a little one. like maybe 5-10 levels out of int and into con/psi.I agree. Spies should have superior PSI use compared to tanks. Stupid tanks....

[BlackPrince]

Eh...I like being a sniper spy. Don't get all the glory of the frontline Meatpuppets, but I certainly have my fun (for me a 1 on 1 sniper duel is far more fun than the muppets down in the OP Zerging, Dying, Rezzing, repeating). Also, nothing says "Luvin" like sniping a bunch of PPU's who thought they were safe and let their buffs down while they healed and rezzed in 'Safety'.

Wanna see an enemy force turn into a pissed off beehive? Snipe 1 or 2 of their PPUs, then as they're running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, use your RoG and Stealth to have even more fun.

Being a Spy is awesome.

[Roc-a-fella]

some peopel say this so and so class is unbalanced because they are fighting higher level other class if you took 1 of each cappec class (decent setups) they would be pretty balanced for what they are supposed to be.

[greendonkeyuk]

Originally posted by Roc-a-fella
some peopel say this so and so class is unbalanced because they are fighting higher level other class if you took 1 of each cappec class (decent setups) they would be pretty balanced for what they are supposed to be.


nearly

spies still need a tweak, at cap they can stand a fighting chance compared to other classes.... precap they dont have a hope in hell. theyre still not quite balanced with the other classes though. i mean who the hell needs 100 intel apart from tradeskillers?

Monks sure as hell dont (coz they couldnt reach it in years :rolleyes: ) and apart from tradeskill spies i dont think id need the extra weplore.... id rather have con for res points or psi for some buffs....

[dSerk]

Originally posted by greendonkeyuk
spies still need a tweak, at cap they can stand a fighting chance compared to other classes.... precap they dont have a hope in hell. theyre still not quite balanced with the other classes though. i mean who the hell needs 100 intel apart from tradeskillers?Every hacker/sniper spy needs all the INT points they can get. Hacking WB's is nice but you need to many points in both HCK and WEP to be a really potent, Op-capable sniper/hacker.

Spies need better PSI, CON or STR. I don't think more STR is really realistic, but I can't see why spies couldn't have better PSI or CON.

[Rade]

I wouldnt mind if spies got like 10 more point.. maybe 25 psi and 5 more str or con.. IF PEs got 5 more dex.. 5 more psi, Tanks got 10 more int, psis got 5 more con 5 more str. Sure thing go ahead :D

[Ormy]

I would be perfectly happy, neigh ecstatic, if my redeemer could TARGET someone at 1800m.

CHANGE the GFX engine to make sniping truly possible, and spies are instantly un-nerfed.

[dSerk]

Originally posted by Ormy
I would be perfectly happy, neigh ecstatic, if my redeemer could TARGET someone at 1800m.

CHANGE the GFX engine to make sniping truly possible, and spies are instantly un-nerfed. I'd like to see a longer draw distance, too, however, on certain terrain, my AMD XP 2000/Radeon 9000 takes a serious hit to the FPS. The longer the view distance the greater the advantage for people with better systems.

I haven't used it in a while but the range of my Commando Sniper rifle (no mods) was about as far as I could see.

Hmmm, instead of changing the whole graphics engine, just being able to hit other players and mobs when you are outside their view range would be nice... sure :)

[Futureman]

Another thing that would be better is slowing tanks down. You know, neocron is the only game where the big strong class that takes and deals a lot of damage is also the fastest. I think that top running speed should be more dependant on Agility instead of Athletics. Right now it is 50/50 i think it would be better if it were 70/30 agility/athletics. You know, why are spies so slow anyway? We don't need PA we need to everyone else to be slower, meaning you can snipe someone at clipping range knowing that they won't have a CS in your mouth by the time you can ready yourself for the second shot.

[MortuusLupus]

I don't think adding another 500 meters to the draw distance would be too much of a performance hit. I had 4xAA on while I ran through areas around MB with alt-n activated, all graphics settings (save vegitation detail) all the way up, and I still got around 30 fps. For people with lesser machines (prolly a lot of people), a slight texture detail tweak is all they'd need, since they're not running any AA.

[Futureman]

Or you could have it like this:

When someone zooms in on the sniper rifle, make the draw point about 700m in front of the gun. Im not sure what the radius of the draw circle is, but the edge of the draw circle could start at one radius length from the player, so the player could actually see 3r instead of just r. that means you wouldn't see any objects untill they were r distance from you but i don't see that as a problem because you could snipe people when they couldn't see you. Of course terrain would have to be rendered because that would just look stupid, but it would be kinda balanced considering that looking though a scope does hinder your situational awareness in the surrounding area. Sounds kinda balanced to me too. Take a sniper and the snipee. The Snipee (yeah its silly but i like it) has two options, he can run away from the sniper and try to go out of his range, or he can close the distance. Once he is withing r range of the sniper, the tables are turned, the snipee can see the sniper but not vice versa. don't know if he should see him in local or not, but I think its interesting.

[Shadow Walker]

Why the hell the spy couldn't use any trade skill? Tanks can, monks can, PE can and keep their efficiency but Spies can't? Well Let us aim correctly with less weapon lore damnit! The spies are completely unworthy in a building for exemple, stealthing is cool but you have to wait 3/4 secondes between each stealth, so shoot once to a tank with a CS and you are as good as dead!!
At least should we have better snipers! With this fire rate they are unworthy! The first correct one (and it's just correct) is SH and it needs 110 in dex!!

[darkservent]

HMMM, I gotta say well wot KK need to do in reality is bring out DEX armour and im not talkin abt PA im talkin abt normal armour, PEs get there str armour, Psi theres, Tank theres (alot too). We spies end up gimpin ourself and resortin to usin drugs and chips which arnt really good for spies, theres too much hassle in em Once ur on the drug flash u have to wait and be a target. Its kinda stupid IMO.

As for the class itself, well ppl who say spies are crap dmg dealers well ur wrong, Spies DMG is crazy if ur combat like me. A real combat spy would have all int points on WL (which not alot of spies do) and enough TC so u use RC1 boost to use FL.

So as u can see from it if we have dex armour we can be more usful on close range PVP and not the gimped hacker/spy setup cause thats all clans really want out of spies someone who is useful. Persoanlly if i got dex armour id LOM all hack out forever. For con setup well id sacrifice a good 10 lvls of INT for it no questions asked. Not to bothered abt PSI thought would be nice to use shelter. Str isnt much on me list eithher to increase but would be nice to use them exp bones or wot KK can do is bring out a set of PSI and DEX bones u now - even though it dont make sense.

Oh and some1 posted abt XP bein lower when UR rank is higher. I actually think its a load of crap. The key to gettin xp anywhere when in a team is the rank of the team mates. I say this because as a 2 star 70/68 spy i go in the choas caves with 1 ppu and apu round 60 in rank and i rake in 2 mill xp a run. Then the next day i went in with a pPU rank 60 and a PE rank 58 and just me as a spy same rank same buffs and that time i got hardly any xp. So make sure ur in a right team. though if u did the choas caves on ur own then ur xp would be real mad as its all urs. Well lets see wot u all have to say. Im tired of this typin now.:o

[Arcadius]

Read my spy idea in my sig. :p

[J a y]

lmfao... you people have some shitty spies then. I use silent hunter and disruptor and i have to say i can rape about 5-8 enimies at a op war before they notice i hit them. and 1v1 long range vs Pe SH wins. pe has 3 shots that can miss or hit silent hunter hits with one big shot... humm wonder which is better. i carry a pe with me but only for close range "holy shit" encounters. useualy ill stealth before that tho.

go do some research before you bitch about a class.

[Shadow Walker]

Every faction hostile to New Dawn knows your methods : pking people at least 10 levels beyong yours, always move in groups, use the loading to save your ass etc... And your py must be a pure combat spy as anyway you are a pker clan and don't care about anything else than combat.

Anyway Conter Strike kid, you should read the posts better, your spy is caped if he can use such weapons, and as some people said : you must cap your spy to be efficient because there is really little mid level equipment.