View Full Version : HOW TO FIX SOUL LIGHT: A suggestion!
Please read this carefully. It may seem extreme but there are other changes that make them less extreme.
Okay. I have been doing some serious thinking about the soulight and pk'ing. Here are the things I have taken into consideration.
*-All the propblems and complaints
*-Pk'ers having fun
*-Non PK's having fun
*-Roleplay
*-Other PK systems in mmorpg's (mainly the non pussy UO shards. Some of those got it right)
*-The theme of Neocron
*-Clan battles
The idea that came to mind was this.
1: Make all villages have an underground Hideout camp, with appartments. These camps are very poor for resources, and are limited on facilitys. They dont have Outgoing GR's. But they have a Vehicle garage nearby, to give people a deterant.
2: Soul light loss should be equall no matter who you kill.
3: You don't loose Soulight if you kill a clan member whoms clan you are at war with.
4: Here is how Copbots reakt to criminals.
* 20 + SL: Copbots Talk to you with a little respect.
* 0 - 20SL: Copbots shoot you if you loiter in Viarossa. Copbots talk to you like scum. **
*-20 - 0SL: Copbots shoot you on sight if you are seen in Viarossa or Plaza. You are still allowed in Pepper Park
* -20SL: You get shot on sight by ALL Copbots, and are forced into Hiding.
5: SoulLight now goes down incremently. One kill takes away as follows:
*20+SL: All your Soullight Minus 40% of your Soullight. +10 SoulLight
*0 to 20SL: All your soullight (SL goes to 0)
*-20 to 0SL: The amount of soullight you are down by minus 1/2 your SL + 4 Soulight
*20-SL: you loose 20 Soullight.
*3: Soullight does NOT go up on it's own, unless it's in minus numbers, in which case its kinda slow, but not stupidly slow.
** By loiter I mean hang around there too long. You know the 5 second warning you get in Pepper Park? Well it would be like that but it would be a 2 minuite warning, with the appropriate Copbot speak.
What will this do?
*Majot PKers will be trully in hiding
*Lightweight criminals will be easily forgiven by the city
*It will make Viarossa fullfill its true RP purpose
*It will make it a LOT easier for Pk'ers to roleplay
*It will make the wastelands more dangerous
*Viarossa will be full of law abiders, Pepper PArk full of petty criminals, and the wastelands will be full of psycopaths!
*It will make Pepper Park fullfull its true roleplay purpose
*It will make copbots seem to have better AI
*It will stop you getting PK'ed, just because an oposite faction has a good clan
*Change the way clan hostility works. It will now be like this.
ALLIED: Talk to them freely. Trust them (like it is now)
NEUTRAL: Average person. (like it is now)
HOSTILE: Talk to them badly. Insult them. occasionally kill there members. Leading to..............
WAR!: This is when the PK'ing happens.
*It will make a halfway point between LE and no LE. If your clanless you will get PK'ed a LOT less.
*PK'ers will NEED vehicles, making the game more like mad max!
*Lots ofother stuff I cant be asked to type
Here is how I came up with the idea. (WARNING! RANTS!!)
Firstly, I thought about the way everybody just runs about killing enemy factions. Perhaps if the penalty for murder was universal, but betraying your factions was another issue altogether?
The idea that instantly came to mind was that everybody experienced Soullight loss equally, no matter who you killed. allied, neutral, enemy, runner or npc.
Secondly I thought about the Player Killers. If they want to kill, they shouldn't be completely punished for that, and any punishment given should be a roleplaying punishment.
Then, I thought about the fact that being forced into your appartment is incredibly boring, and getting killed over and over by copbots running into the celler is boring too.
This is when I came up with the villages idea.
Then I thought about the non-pk'ers. If you make pk'ing easy and fun, then it's not hard to predict that PKing problem will follow shortly.
I decided that perhaps making the life of a PK'er "alternate" to the life of a lawfull runner.
Then I decided that a number of hideouts in the wastelands would be a good idea, but there was a problem. Whats to stop lawfull runners from visiting known spots and just "lettting loose"? So i got thinking, and came up with the underground camps idea.
I then thought that the underground camps idea was a bit too much, so I concluded with appartments in the villages.
I then thought about soullight loss, and came up with the idea that perhaps you could be punished differently depending on how low your soullight was, and that your soullight goes down incremently.
Then it all just came together.
So what do you think?
EDIT: Sorry for the rants. It's late and I'm tired.
btw Pol options are 1: I agree 2: I dont like it 3: Fix soullight but not this way
it sucks period.....
If I want to kill I shouldnt loose so much sl!!!!
Maybe a equal -2 to -5 per kill or so not -78 if I have +80 SL thats like DUH! Dont even like the SL idea at all. You cant have bad SL then you cant play this shit... You are dooomed if so ^^
So cut this crap about SL and bring in a better solution :D
great! this would really make pepperpark and the wasteland what it was supposed to be for :)
Originally posted by t0tt3
it sucks period.....
If I want to kill I shouldnt loose so much sl!!!!
Maybe a equal -2 to -5 per kill or so not -78 if I have +80 SL thats like DUH! Dont even like the SL idea at all. You cant have bad SL then you cant play this shit... You are dooomed if so ^^
So cut this crap about SL and bring in a better solution :D
Are you talking about this idea being crap or the current soulight system being crap? Because with this idea if you are +20 SL you would get to make about 2 or 3 kills and still have +20 Soulight. If you are 0-20 SL then you still get 1 kill and copbots will NOT shoot you!
The whole SL idea doesnt make any sense to me.
How does a city cobbot know if I killed someone if the middle of the wastelands or not? It just doesn't make sense.
Well, you're on the right lines, but I think Sleawer's idea is much better, and simpler too.
Meh . . . I mostly agree with the ideas presented they accuratley portray the kind of world NC should be. However . . . unless a person is a MAJOR pker they're gonna bitch like you won't beleive if they get shot in Plaza.
Ex. "blahblahblah only pked one time blahblahblah now I can't get any of my stuff repaired blahblahblah" etc.
This is not a flaw in the SL system this is a flaw in NC. There are not enough people to support more than one stable economy. You go to plaza to get poked, repped, const, ress, etc. While the trade channels allevite this somewhat most tradeskillers are not gonna leave plaza (well any safe zone but that's where the criminals get shot) unless they have to because they take the chance of getting ganked . . .
Secondly as to Warp Garages all over the place. I love the idea but I would think that a warp garage takes more power/money to maintain than a genrep so your argument about poorer areas doesn't make much sense. But I really want to see more Warp Garages in the wastes preferably at non occupiable genrep locations.
@nova
How do you know a person's name/reank/health/faction/clan just by mousing over them? Obviouly we all have a "personal data chip" implanted that we can't remove or modify. That's how the CopBots know if we've been bad or good.
I was very tired when I came up with those ideas. How about this refined version? Most of it is just copy and paste, but there is a lot of difference if you obseve correctly.
This system rewards people for having high soulight by allowing them to make a few kills and get away with it.
1: Soul light loss should be equall no matter who you kill.
2: You don't loose Soulight if you kill a clan member whoms clan you are at war with.
3: Here is how Copbots reakt to criminals.
* 20 + SL: Lawfull Citezen.
* 0 - 20SL: You get a 3 minuite warning to leave every time you go into viarossa.
*-20 - 0SL: Copbots shoot you on sight if you are seen in Viarossa or Plaza. You are still allowed in Pepper Park
* -15SL: You get shot on sight by ALL Copbots, and are forced into Hiding.
5: SoulLight now goes down incremently. One kill takes away as follows:
*20+SL: All your Soullight Minus 40% of your Soullight. +10 SoulLight
*0 to 20SL: Loose all of your Soulight -2
*-20 to 0SL: The amount of soullight you are down by minus 1/2 your SL + 4 Soulight
*20-SL: you loose 20 Soullight.
*3: Soullight does NOT go up on it's own, unless it's in minus numbers, in which case its kinda slow, but not stupidly slow.
*Lawfull (+20) citizens are allowed to make a few pvp kills and not go below 20 soullight. You can easily do missions if you want to get it up. (boner)
*Warnined (0-20) citizens get a slight punishment for killing somebody. (perhaps they could get a warninig email)
*Criminal (-0) citizens are punished slightly for there crimes with little remorse
*Psychotics (-20) get more long term banishment.
If you are below 0 then it goes up on its own, but you can still do missions if you like.
Make villages work properly. In other words, there are npc's there that sell items (like now) but there are 1 or 2 appartment lifts in each village. Each village key is sold at the village.
I still don't really agree with the specifics of it, but I like the sound of making very evil runners outcasts.
I do like the idea that only good runners get to go into Via Rossa..... now if only there was something to go there for.
Promethius
17-08-03, 09:10
Well i have an idea for SL. When u kill an allied faction as in green. You lose as much Sl as the person u jsut killed. If you kill a person who is nuetral to you. You lose as much Sl as they have divided by 2. (i.e. you kill someone with 20 SL and you lose 10 SL).
Also another idea is that the higher SL you have the less SL you'll lose for kiling someone. Persay u have 80 Sl adn kill someoen with 10 SL. Instead of jsut losing 10 SL you would lose 2 because thats 80% reduced beacuse ur SL is so high. (this can get a bit dodgy) Proly make this rule stop when u hit 50 SL so the Sl lose can ONLY be reduced by 50%.
(lol imagin killin someoen with 100SL....yipes)
Also if this was incorperated it would be nice if in the local box and ont eh cahrs u could see there SL....so u kno not to fuck wita person with 100 SL.
MortuusLupus
17-08-03, 09:24
The problem I see is not with the soul light itself, though the current system is pretty bad. I think the problem is the copbots themselves. They have no AI. They stand there and get angry. That's it. There ought to be a distress call button or something, so that the police know if there's an attack in progress and can come running. As it is, you have to be killed right in front of a cop in order for him to react, and most of the time he won't. What happened to the "occasional patrols" that were supposed to be in PP? I don't see any police patroling anywhere.
Probably, though, this is an issue they won't be able to fix quickly. None of the enemies in the game have any kind of AI at all, save doy bots. They just stand in one place (or fly in a small circle) until someone shoots them, then they have a perpetual homing beacon on their attacker allowing them to follow him no matter where he goes. Probably in order to impliment some kind of copbot AI they'd have to develop AI for all the mobs and NPCs in the game.
EDIT: Meaning the problem's not so much with the crime, as it is with the utter lack of punishment.
Promethius
17-08-03, 09:33
Originally posted by MortuusLupus
The problem I see is not with the soul light itself, though the current system is pretty bad. I think the problem is the copbots themselves. They have no AI. They stand there and get angry. That's it. There ought to be a distress call button or something, so that the police know if there's an attack in progress and can come running. As it is, you have to be killed right in front of a cop in order for him to react, and most of the time he won't. What happened to the "occasional patrols" that were supposed to be in PP? I don't see any police patroling anywhere.
Probably, though, this is an issue they won't be able to fix quickly. None of the enemies in the game have any kind of AI at all, save doy bots. They just stand in one place (or fly in a small circle) until someone shoots them, then they have a perpetual homing beacon on their attacker allowing them to follow him no matter where he goes. Probably in order to impliment some kind of copbot AI they'd have to develop AI for all the mobs and NPCs in the game.
EDIT: Meaning the problem's not so much with the crime, as it is with the utter lack of punishment.
I'm not sure which game i red this in (i think dragon empire or something) but the mobs they are makin have complete AI. They adapt to the players and teh colors of how the runners are dressed. Like a color wills et them off. They also might travel in packs to keep safe if they are constantly attack. Also some mobs are are nocturnal. They said they are makin mobs ahev good AI so its mroe liek an adventure not a chore. Then i thought about NC mobs... Our mobs jsut stand still until u walk next to them or shoot them. Hell its very borin lvling until ur capped...adn when ur capped all u ahve to look forward to is a few good battles and thats it.
(i found this because i am looking for new MMORPGs because i refuse to believe neocron is the best)
Originally posted by Scikar
I still don't really agree with the specifics of it
What is it you don't like about the specifics? Outline your reasons so they can be developed. Perhaps suggest your own version. ReaKKtor need to know exactly what it is that people want and don't like about the current system.
Helen Angilley
18-08-03, 00:02
Originally posted by Promethius
I'm not sure which game i red this in (i think dragon empire or something) but the mobs they are makin have complete AI. They adapt to the players and teh colors of how the runners are dressed. Like a color wills et them off. They also might travel in packs to keep safe if they are constantly attack. Also some mobs are are nocturnal. They said they are makin mobs ahev good AI so its mroe liek an adventure not a chore. Then i thought about NC mobs... Our mobs jsut stand still until u walk next to them or shoot them. Hell its very borin lvling until ur capped...adn when ur capped all u ahve to look forward to is a few good battles and thats it.
(i found this because i am looking for new MMORPGs because i refuse to believe neocron is the best)
It's very easy to say a game will "have" something...o_O
Anyway, the Mobs in Neocron do have AI, it's just not all that noticeable to most people...hell, a lot of the times I've been fighting Mutants, the smaller ones will attempt to flank me while the larger ones will shuffle into a pike formation.
There was quite an impressive post detailing the AI of various mobs although I can't be arsed to dig it out right now.
I'm sleepy and the only comment I feel like making is this: what about the factions that start in Via Rosso? I have this vision of countless newbies getting slaughtered as they leave their starting apartment, all because they had low sl. :eek:
Originally posted by Benjie
What is it you don't like about the specifics? Outline your reasons so they can be developed. Perhaps suggest your own version. ReaKKtor need to know exactly what it is that people want and don't like about the current system.
I don't like your idea because it's a bit complex. At least in the current system I can look at a runner and say, "If I kill him, my SL is gonna dip down to somewhere below 0, and if I kill his mate it'll go down a bit more, but if I kill him, I won't lose any." Whereas with your system it's not quite so simple.
The best idea I've seen is Sleawer's. I can't remember the specifics but it was about changing the system so SL is a measure of how much the city likes you. The item drops would be made the same regardless of SL so that enemies of the city can and would actually be evil (in the eyes of Reza and the city at least). Good, city runners would be able to take bounty hunter missions to kill evil anti-city runners.
I'll leave it to Sleawer to post his idea again if he wants to.
Promethius
18-08-03, 02:20
Originally posted by Helen Angilley
It's very easy to say a game will "have" something...o_O
Anyway, the Mobs in Neocron do have AI, it's just not all that noticeable to most people...hell, a lot of the times I've been fighting Mutants, the smaller ones will attempt to flank me while the larger ones will shuffle into a pike formation.
There was quite an impressive post detailing the AI of various mobs although I can't be arsed to dig it out right now.
lmao mutant FLANKS THE HORROR. =P. Well i kno they have some AI but its not all that impressive / noticeable. But it would be cool to notice some mobs have instincts and habits they go by inwhich we could over time see and play along with it making the game a lil bit more exciting.
(hell if they made mobs with alot mroe AI I'd proly just make a new char for the hell of it)
I think my system is complex, but less fustrating. IMO, PvP should not just be about being killed by enemy factions, or just slaughtering enemy factions appart because there hostile with you. It's bad Gameplay and it's bad Roleplay! My system scraps Soulight loss discrimination and allows combat to happen equally with anybody you choose without anybody having to pay a huge fine for it, and it rewards people who have great deals of soulight by letting them get away with a few kills before they get in trouble with the law. And as for people who want to PK rather than PvP, they get the expected consicuences. Simple is not always the easiest sollution...
I just think they got to make it logical. If I kill allied or nutral fation. I should take a SL hit of varius degrees, calculated on the person I killed own SL and fation sypathy.
For enemy fations there should be nothing stoping anyone from saying."If it's red it's dead" Where ever they are.
Now I know that some peaple have abused this in the past *cough Joystick cough* Camping dungions an such all day every day. An probly some one else will think thats a good idea. Well Clans like NDA were formed to stop that kind of exessive noob hunting. (Any way I think he got banned in the end). So prooving that any thing execive like that going on, the community will and has in the past reacted to put a stop to it.
It's evident, the soullight system needs a rework, it has so many flaws and unfair penalizations that it's starting to ruin the fun in PvP or even the normal player interactions.
In my opinion PvP is not necessary a prepared or organized situation, but oppossite to this it is mostly expontaneus and hard to predict. The problem with this is that we are in a stationary system, where players have to prepare the place to PvP, and watch for an imaginary and magical system of laws, to not be totally wasted by unfair game features.
The idea of Benjie is proposing to give us more freedom in PvP and the SL system, making it less unfair; which is good, but he is failing in nailing the current problem in my opinion.
The Soullight should not be a doom for evil people, unless they dont want to be considered as evil members of the society. At the moment, and the flaw in the system, is the SL used as a game tool to prevent the PK, a harsh measure and unnecessary with the proper player interaction elements.
The SL should be a status in the community, an indicator of our degree of suitability into the Social Order; and the penalizations for having a bad Soullight should be the difficulty or in certain situations even the impossibility to interact normally with the lawful society.
In my idea
Faction Loyalties, Soullight and Status in Neocron (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72011)
I suggest a change in the point of view of the game community, with of course repercusions for having good or bad Soullight. Allowing a wide variety of roles to play, based in possibly one of the most important features in game; call it Soullight, Karma or Status.. in other words, how the society classify our person, our behaviours, and what expect of us.
What we have to realize is that exist criminal factions in game like Tsunami or Black Dragon, aswell as outcasts as Crahn monks are, or even terrorists in Twilight Guardian. These people, by simple logic, should have, and want to have, red soulight in the laws of the city of Neocron, and therefore persecuted by Reeza and the copbots, and why not, by runners playing roles as Bounty Hunters.
We have the possibility to add a dinamic system of missions and roles to play, which would enrich the game and the community. Read my sig and give your opinion if you want to, or post it here (hijacking :) ); but there are so many players complaining about a clearly unfair and restrictive system to be ignored. I would expect a change.
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