antipkers/antiroleplayers... [Archive]

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 06:32

5 seconds ago Im in game playing as a twighlight guardian. I go into OZ storage 8 (labled anarchy zone) and run into a Cityadmin character about my level. Being a pistol spy I decide to shoot first ask questions later. Then I loose sl. So I switch to the Out of Character Player to Player help channel and ask if anyone knows why you lose soullight for pking enemies in a anarchy zone.

The response I get from 3 people is STFU STUPID PKAR!!
DONT PK IF YOU CANT HANDLE TEH CONZEUNSES!!11

Im confused about something, can someone explain this to me. See I only think using logic. It seems other people make arguments using some sort or of hive mind mentality... or basically if somehting is done that makes other people mad it must be wrong and it doesn't matter how or why. Their arguments don't have to be right, or make sense. It's just if something says or done triggers some kind of base, fickle emotional reaction than they suddenly convince themselves they are right no matter how backward their argument is.

I don't think i even have to state why I did the right thing, even these people knew they had no leg to stand on. I just want to point something else out and ask a question or two.

People like these who claim to be righteous..

You have logged into a roleplaying game where people pay to escape reality and take the role of someone in this case in a dark gritty cyber punk world where many factions are at war with each other. You have attempted to ruin their roleplaying experience by demanding that people conform to some contrived ruleset (which changes at every action that inconviences you in any way) then you step out of the roleplaying arena and into real life and insult and attack the people for simply trying to enjoy the game they paid for.

Lets get something straight here... It isnt about pking lower levels, or pking at genreps or pking while hunting, or anything else. Its about you being pked at all. You not winning. The fact that for that one second you are not the best.

How can people like you live with yourselves? How can you take yourself seriously? In this day and age this type of behavior is seen through so quickly that you might as well just cry. People are reduced to trying to insult the pker in hopes that maybe he in his anger will show some weakness or hypocrisy with which to fuel their own anger and righteousness against the pker. When the pker gives no such thing, they just improvise... in hopes that they that at some point the pker will slip and say something that will bring him down to their pathetic level. They reach and grasp.. a spelling error.. a unlikely claim.. anything they can use to keep their anger going and not have to face reality. Until finally their arguments become so sad that even they cannot deny the truth any longer.

Why dont you just save yourself the trouble of going through this every time you get pked and GROW UP. DEAL WITH IT. GO GET BETTER AND COME BACK. and most importantly DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY.

ronaz

14-08-03, 07:42

Anarchy zones shouldn't inflict SL loss. Unless its a "hunting ground" type zone. You always loose SL for killing runners there.

Which is lame imo. Im not a big PvP'er but I used to like the extra danger while hunting. I remember the Aggie cellars in like december-january where you automatically shit your pants when a high lvl with a twirly weapon zoned in. Of course i was a total nublet back then.

The only "love" you can get nowadays is in the wastelands and someone who takes the effort of following you into your appartment.

bd*

14-08-03, 08:00

Its hardly lame, its to protect the lower level players from morons :rolleyes:

I have no problem with PKers, i do have a problem with n00b pkers. Our server population is low enough, jumping on a n00bs back for being red at every instance isnt going to help.

Basically, you must have entered somewhere like the Aggy Pits in P1 (for example) and pkd someone down there. The only people down there are <25, are they really worth it? What the hell could they have done to you?

And dont bitch about people bitching about PKing cause your bitching as well (about SL which is another aspect of the game) :wtf: That tells you that you were in the wrong (cause you lost SL) you naught naughty boy!

And just because your faction hates someone doesnt mean you have to. Thats like saying cause the UK hates Iraq i have to too o_O I make my own decisions thank you very much.

Promethius

14-08-03, 08:11

Tho honestly i think there should be a no faction upon which u have red SL to everyone. (also able to make clans). Even in these times u could have a gang of people or 'pirates' that jsut harass the city dwellers. Tho every city they visit they are attack by the guards. (but they can have appts....smuggled ones of course). Cuz i jsut wish u could choose a no faction. (also SL wouldn't apply to u because ur not going against ur set of rules ..cuz u maade em)

CarniFlex

14-08-03, 09:38

Prom werent you banned ? :)

Remove the anarchy zones inside neocron and have em warzones. also remove hunting grounds and make em warzones inside city. then everyone would be a bit more happy.

Promethius

14-08-03, 09:46

Originally posted by CarniFlex
Prom werent you banned ? :)

Remove the anarchy zones inside neocron and have em warzones. also remove hunting grounds and make em warzones inside city. then everyone would be a bit more happy.

yes :(

Note to self -
Don't make chars with names like BlackLvory.

Sorontar

14-08-03, 09:47

I can't see a problem with what you did mate and nobody has any comebacks at you. Enemy faction , same level and all that !!

But hats off to you, Pistol Spy Pking .......... my word what's next. My spy seems to die if the wind changes direction too quickly.:D

Velvet

14-08-03, 09:49

Originally posted by CarniFlex
Remove the anarchy zones inside neocron and have em warzones. also remove hunting grounds and make em warzones inside city. then everyone would be a bit more happy.
Not me:(
In my opinion the problem is another one:
If i kill every "red" player i`m taking the fun from some of them... Simply because they are not in the PK business... And what is a noob? If i take someone my level from behind is that ok? :confused: The PK increase has one reason (in my opinion): There is nothing more to do /explore / find. It`s often an consequence of boredom.

Promethius

14-08-03, 09:50

Also i don't understand why the other zones in the wastelands aren't warzones. I mean honestly if i was going to kill a person of the same faction i would drag em out to a desert where no one can see us...

Hell hwy not jsut get seclude anarchy zones to inside city walls..

Arcadius

14-08-03, 09:51

Originally posted by Promethius
Also i don't understand why the other zones in the wastelands aren't warzones. I mean honestly if i was going to kill a person of the same faction i would drag em out to a desert where no one can see us...

Hell hwy not jsut get seclude anarchy zones to inside city walls..

I agree.

Archeus

14-08-03, 10:10

Storage halls are Hunting zones as far as I remember.

deac

14-08-03, 10:29

didnt he say outzone?

anyways... yes this game has gone to soft :(

I think KK should make a carebear faction, a faction not red to anyone.

It could even be the starting faction for all.... and the first faction change would be free?.

That way ppl would have nothing to whine about.

Oh and true newb unclanned kills should always have a penalty....

lets not make this game into the piece of carebear shit swg is... where you have to ask ppl if the want to "duel".....arggh

Promethius

14-08-03, 10:34

IMO there should be only 4 factions.
1 Proctiy
2 anticity
3 carebear (no one hostile)
4 hardcore (hostile to everyone...including there own faction)

of course this will NEVER happen because the storyline has allready derived fromt eh split factions and there jobs. (they coudl also jsut make other factions have similar hostiel factions like CA/TT/ etc all have same enemys while FA/TG are anti city....i dunno jsut a thought

Crest

14-08-03, 10:34

SL light is also lost based on Attack rating.

Was doing an epic, which required me to kill a 35 - 55 level guy. I did so, got a friend and kille him I was 38/46 he was 1/48.

I lost 108 SL (I had 100 at the time.....)

So maybe he was inocent and walking around when wham...someone whacked him....
hehe

I used to get piised off with pker's but now i accept and return the favour. Its become a big part of the game

AxeMan

14-08-03, 13:42

@ Kriminal

I think your base understanding of this game is wrong. its an RPG, a role-play game not something that you have to "WIN".

i dont PvP ever, i dont bitch or complain about pker's because they are (perhaps) role-playing their way. thats fine by me. I'm role-playing my way

the only complaint i have is when pkers complain about "carebare's" or when someone exploits a game bug to kill LE runners.

so if you want to play a game where you have to "win" dont play an RPG. but if your happy role-playing a pker then fine.

Just dont assume that this game is all about winning and therefore those with an LE are playing the game wrong.

QuantumDelta

14-08-03, 13:50

Originally posted by Promethius
IMO there should be only 4 factions.
1 Proctiy
2 anticity
3 carebear (no one hostile)
4 hardcore (hostile to everyone...including there own faction)

of course this will NEVER happen because the storyline has allready derived fromt eh split factions and there jobs. (they coudl also jsut make other factions have similar hostiel factions like CA/TT/ etc all have same enemys while FA/TG are anti city....i dunno jsut a thought

Noob.
You wanna shoot shit you deal with the consequences.
:P

I realise that's a line outta krims post ;)

Hopefully KK will never be dumb enough to cater for the likes of you... "Mr. PKer" heh, right.

And, how exactly can you have carebear factions that are hostile to no one in a game at the same time as some "hardcore" who are hostile to everyone? ... friggin retard.

"Hardcore" Players, would be able to deal with the lost soul light.
One of my clan mates (not noob) went down to -100SL, didn't die managed to work his way up to -32 (And then couldn't be arsed doing anymore missions).

Someone I fought in an op fight just yesterday was running around on red SL, he wasn't being that cocky, I think he had a lotta guts to stay though.

More than starkes teh nub or any PKer I've ever known had.
Get some balls pls.

Helen Angilley

14-08-03, 13:53

Slightly ironic that you use the "Carebears FOPRCE THINGS on PK'ers111" to defend your actions yet you're the sort of person who forces PK'ing on "Carebears"....hmm

Commence waggling of the eyebrows methinks.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 16:35

Oh brother... Even this thread is flooded with the same obviously immature 3 yr old logic that you see in game.

I didn't even think I had to explain this on the forum but in anarchy zones (like pepper park etc) you lose soullight ONLY for pking people allied to you with positive soullight, noone else. Anarchy zones are like all over the wasteland, pepper park etc. Outzone 8 is labled an ANARCHY ZONE.

First of all to people like QD... The point of this post was to show how despite all the anitpkers claims about pkers being immature and not objective in their claims, it is actually the ANTIPKERS who flood the forums, the game help chat, everything with immature biased illogical bs. This outta be obvious since being pked puts someone in an emotional state where they are likely to say anything to protect themselves from the sentiment that they are not the best. (and continue to troll logical forum posts on the subject with the same immature bs if they are of the type that always looses and are in a constant state of this type of denial... cough HA)

Anyone who takes out their LE does it to participate in pvp. If you dont want to participate in pvp and the whole game war thing then dont take out the LE. Its not an insult its just that simple. People take it as an insult because suggesting it further implies that the person is not "ready" for PVP which is the real insecurity that the crybaby antipker is dealing with. The person TOOK out their LE specifically because they wanted to participate in PVP. If they REALLY believed there was something wrong with pking then they would just accept the LE as a way to play the game without worrying about it.

@ Axeman Im not saying that the game is a competition where you have to win. IM not the one that thinks that way, Im just playing the game and run into an enemy faction member on the streets and pk them. If they kill me then Im not a "loser" in my mind. My point is the antipkers are "Losers" in their mind when they die and thats what drives them to spam everything with their immature arguments.

@bd OZ 8 is hardly a low lvl hunting zone, and I was the same level as the other character. Its about on the level of MB bunker and most importantly is NOT labled as a Hunting zone. But then you dont actually care about REALITY... you just hope to twist the situation around in someway where you can get satisfaction by dragging one of "those pkers" down to your level.

Instead of trying to change the world to fit you constantly, always complaining in your emotional fits hoping that the company will right then decide to cater to your childish demands and further wreck the game... Why don't you use those same arguments about why it was "unfair" to just convince yourself that you don't suck and there is nothing to be afraid of, and just learn from the experience and move on. The first person to decide to attack in a situation is probably going to be the winner... thats just the way the game is designed. It doesn't matter if the person is much higher or lower or SI impaired or what. So you can pretty much figure that if someone attacks you when you dont expect it your gonna die no matter your skill. That doesn't mean you suck, it just means you took out your LE and then don't ready your self for PVP. Not very intelligent, but nothing to fling yourself into a 3 yr old state hurling insults at the person trying to save yourself from the thought that you aren't any good...

QuantumDelta

14-08-03, 16:44

I like my clan thanks.
If you wanna PK, you can deal with it.

Anti-Roleplay?
I've probably interacted with the faction counsellors ingame, IC, more than most.. I can do quite well in my RP Thank you.

And, I most usually have an answer for everything too..which is useful in RP heh...

You claim to RP a psychopathic nutcase, well guess what, even in the post-apoc world of neocron most clans/factions would see these people as a threat to their members and have them terminated.
Regardless of what you think "PKers" = Teh |_053. Kay?

Me? How do I deal with PKers? I'm just throwing view points on the forums, but generally I think you can't deal with shit.
Bad SL = Criminal, Bad SL = Psycho, Bad SL = What you should have and be if you want to be who you claim to be.

You don't, your not IC.
Me? I hunt your kind.
I always have, and I always will, you're far more hypocritical than any "carebear." and as most people will tell you, while I do give people more than their fair chance about things, I am far from a carebear.
Alright?

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 16:58

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I like my clan thanks.
If you wanna PK, you can deal with it.

Anti-Roleplay?
I've probably interacted with the faction counsellors ingame, IC, more than most.. I can do quite well in my RP Thank you.

And, I most usually have an answer for everything too..which is useful in RP heh...

You claim to RP a psychopathic nutcase, well guess what, even in the post-apoc world of neocron most clans/factions would see these people as a threat to their members and have them terminated.
Regardless of what you think "PKers" = Teh |_053. Kay?

Me? How do I deal with PKers? I'm just throwing view points on the forums, but generally I think you can't deal with shit.
Bad SL = Criminal, Bad SL = Psycho, Bad SL = What you should have and be if you want to be who you claim to be.

You don't, your not IC.
Me? I hunt your kind.
I always have, and I always will, you're far more hypocritical than any "carebear." and as most people will tell you, while I do give people more than their fair chance about things, I am far from a carebear.
Alright?

lol I must a hit a cord with that "constant state of denial line". No qd i think its obvious that Im not hypocrytical in any way shape or form. It still says on the game site from when the game was designed "SL is a way of life not a penalty system". Losing all the items a player earned is not justifiable in any way even for a criminal... Its just a move KK did to cater to people who were whining because they were having trouble facing the possibility that they weren't utterly uber. And now their game is a wasteland compared to how it was before thanks to these immature selfish demands and KK's lack of foresight which caused them to go along with it simply due to the larger number of people complaining- (while the "emotionally balanced" players where busy enjoying the game)

Not that any of this is relevant considering I'm talking about pking faction enemies... a concept which you people fail to understand. I guess you suppose enemy faction members should meet in the streets and sit down and have a cup of tea? The truth is you want to ruin the game to satisfy your fickle desires. If you people had it your way the game would have some ruleset where people can only attack you when you had no chance of losing. Only problem is that doesn't work to well when there is more than one person in the game does it?

QuantumDelta

14-08-03, 17:03

Then I shall simply call you weak minded, if you are not going to have some solidarity in your character.

If you were to actually do the Red SL thing, probably restrict yourself to not using CS, you would probably earn more respect.

As for fighting people with no chance of losing.
Hahah, you really are ignorant.

Me'n'a PPU vs 8 people (2 ppu, 3 tank, 1 pe, 2 apu), I told the PPU to run for it (Didn't have any buffs on me at the time) he ran, I held them, killed a PPU, almost killed the PE and still got away alive (thanks to stealth, ..... I hate running from fights, but staying while parashocked? I ain't stupid).

I'm pretty well known for charging head first, alone, into large groups of people.
I ran ALONE in MB into FIFTEEN People all hostile a while back.

So screw your points.

Archeus

14-08-03, 17:06

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Outzone 8 is labled an ANARCHY ZONE.

I'm pretty sure some of the OZ halls aren't.

Otherwise the player was registering as a CA when in fact they were part of another faction.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 17:09

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Then I shall simply call you weak minded, if you are not going to have some solidarity in your character.

If you were to actually do the Red SL thing, probably restrict yourself to not using CS, you would probably earn more respect.

If your talking about my old emd character, I did try for a brief period to attack people with red soul light. The problem is I always died fairly often as you can't just go around attacking everyone in sight and expect to win consistantly.

Every time you die you have to go back and construct (or construct money to make) a full set of armour, all the weapons etc. I had a tradeskill setup where I could make things probably the most efficient way possible in the game. But I still didn't have the patience to crank out the amount of armour and weapons it wouldve taken to keep that character going. Its just too much. Combine that with the fact that PVP rewards are now locked and noone has anything to gain from PVP and the obvious reason for not doing it is ITS JUST BORING AND POINTLESS. It was fun before, now its not. For that matter nothing in the game is fun anymore, that is actually an aspect of a VIDEO GAME.

@ Archaeus Well my point is it says anarchy zone for it so if it is a hunting zone then noone bothered to change the label... Not that it would make sense that a high level dungeon in the middle of the anarchy outzone would be hunting either. But then they did change TH core to hunting zone even though TH itself is anarchy so who knows... The thing I was asking on help channel was if the label was screwed up or what was going on... The reply I got was to get insulted by a bunch of immature hypocrites... As they were insulting me Out of Character for In character events which were perfectly legitimate.

QuantumDelta

14-08-03, 17:12

You say, to the guy who can hack ops, poke himself, and still fight five times better than you ;)

I get plenty reward from my pvp.
However, I am a duelist by heart, and pretty much stick to a chivalristic code of conduct.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 17:15

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
You say, to the guy who can hack ops, poke himself, and still fight five times better than you ;)

I get plenty reward from my pvp.
However, I am a duelist by heart, and pretty much stick to a chivalristic code of conduct.

Yeah keep telling yourself that qd... Tanks can't hack btw nor can they poke. I'd play another char or something but I liked that original character and I dont see any reason why certain classes should be restricted from recieving their PVP rewards. Thats besides the fact that a pker hacking a belt is likely to be killed before he finishes.

QuantumDelta

14-08-03, 17:24

Tanks = teh |_053 like I said.
They deserve being dependant on others if people are going to insist on having them as the best combat char.
Dependant for pokes.
Dependant for weapons.
Dependant for hack.

Hacking time - Err.....you gotta be kidding me right? o_O
maybe you just PKed in dumb places?

You can't have your cake and eat it krim.

shockr

14-08-03, 17:25

ok.. my 2nc for the sake of it ;)

I think I've been mentioned on several occasions as one of the few, if not only 100% roleplayer on Pluto.

I run a business, I attend meetings, I'm always in character. I'm Zane Shadowfall.. businessman, pistol collector, and killer of anyone who happens to cross me.

I've got no problem with those who wish to level with an LE chip in. It's their choice. What does piss me off is when a runner has an LE chip in so they can piss you off with no come-backs.

This one guy the other day decided he'd go into Tech Haven (which, may I add, has very poor natural defence for our low levellers as it is) and decides to attack our turrets and bots. Now, I wouldn't have a problem if they stood a chance of getting killed by them. But they don't. That's got to be fixed.

As for Pker's.. well, I disagree with those who run around with the sole intention of killing anything that moves just because they can. As a roleplayer I believe there should be a reason to kill someone. Or at least have a motive that could stick. Maybe you are a psychopath.. But those who just waste everything, sex the corpse and then give it 'H4W H4W.. PWNED J00 A55! n00b!' That just annoys me.

Sure, gank a TT if he's not looking, even do it in the aggy cellars if you've got reason. My character went on a vengful rampage around Neocron when he was sacked from TT. I killed TT runners regardless of level. But I always stated before hand, or after in a roleplay sense my reason for doing so.

This is a RPG. I'm not going to argue the PvP/RPG thing. We know it's 50/50.. but to PK.. you should do so with equal amount of RP.

/edit: er.. actually. that was a little more than 2nc.. maybe 100nc ;)

Bob Monkhouse

14-08-03, 17:28

I am sick of hearing this phrase "hardcore PvPers" . These are exactly the same types of people who look at your music collection and say "its OK but I prefer more hardcore/obscure music like Van der Wank's whalesongs and tribal drums at 147BPM" or after seeing a hollywood remake of a film say "I prefer the original Sanskrit language version of that film with no subtitles, its closer to the directors dream" etc.

In other words its elitist crap spouted by people who adopt a supposedly niche position because they think it makes them interesting and superior, without realising that most people simply regard them as boring, conceited wankers.

AxeMan

14-08-03, 17:31

going back to your original post.

1. it sounds like a bug caused you to lose SL
2. yes they were probably imature to rant at you on OOC for your inquiry.
3. you started your post (as stated) logically. but finished it a with a rant.
4. your right they should grow-up or accept the situation
5. you should realise ppl get angry (thats life) so you should also (perhaps) accept it.

Crest

14-08-03, 17:37

I prefer the original Sanskrit language version of that film with no subtitles, its closer to the directors dream

I hope they havent re-made it......

ghandisfury

14-08-03, 17:54

As I've said.....Pkers made your bed, now it's time to sleep in it. You have killed everybody and everything from noobs to and GR killing and hack killing and any other killing that makes you "slip into your role"....which is almost always killing people who have no chance of defending themselves. So the made these "carebear" rules to accomodate the spys or low level players who got sick and tired of losing their stuff.

Now we have seen a flood of the PKers come here and complain because they don't get anything from thier "kills". YOU caused this transformation from your constant ganking......

It's not fun to die with no chance of defence....it's not fun to die 10 times a night....again, with no chance of defending yourself......it's not fun to die with no chance retaliation......you've made it no fun for yourself.

QuantumDelta

14-08-03, 17:56

Meanwhile, the people who fight honourably wont let'em get away with it :P

Mattimeo

14-08-03, 17:59

Hmm.. was this on saturn last night? and were you on as *poof*?

if so, you weren't ranting in ooc, it was in help, and you left a few things out, like how you were negative and abusive to anyone and everyone who did not agree that you should be able to kill anyone any where without consequences. Maybe I'm wrong, but you and *poof* sound pretty freaking similar. KRININAL99, I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked *poof* last night, why do you whine about the games rules? if you don't like them, and would like to be able to kill anything that moves, there's many other games that would much better suit your tastes.

Personally, I think you're just here because, as is evidenced by your actions, that you just like to gank people who are easy targets, and couldn't really deal with a fair fight all around.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 17:59

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Tanks = teh |_053 like I said.
They deserve being dependant on others if people are going to insist on having them as the best combat char.
Dependant for pokes.
Dependant for weapons.
Dependant for hack.

Hacking time - Err.....you gotta be kidding me right? o_O
maybe you just PKed in dumb places?

You can't have your cake and eat it krim.

Tanks aren't the best combat character... First of all up until recently it was Hybrids. PE's are better than tanks in my opinion in a situation where both sides expect an attack. Spies can snipe tanks and beat them up close to with a good setup and the drop on them. Melee tanks can pretty much own anyone one on one if the player is really skilled, but a second person against them reduces their chances to nill. Apus can kill anyone alone if they get the drop on them but a second person would kill the apu. A ppu is like melee in that it can kill most in 1v1 with a lot of time but they have a much better chance of surviving facing 2 people however a second person fighting them reduces the chance they will kill anyone like 90%... A melee PE would probably kick butt but still vs 2 or more people I don't think he would stand much of a chance.

That leaves Heavy tank. Heavy tank can take advantage of having the drop on someone with the high damage that Heavy weapons do (But not as much as APU). Then when facing multiple players afterwords they can survive a bit of damage, escape for a second, heal up, and comeback and kill another. Maybe even kill 2 people at a time. They are gimped in one on one "duels" because they move slow as sh!! with their weapons. I chose a heavy tank for the role of psycho pker specifically for these reasons. These reasons made me good at what I did because I KNEW my strengths and weaknesses and played accordingly. Tanks are not the best overall combat class. Therefore there is no reason they should be denied the PVP loot they earned.

Clothing_Option

14-08-03, 18:04

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
5 seconds ago Im in game playing as a twighlight guardian. I go into OZ storage 8 (labled anarchy zone) and run into a Cityadmin character about my level. Being a pistol spy I decide to shoot first ask questions later. Then I loose sl. So I switch to the Out of Character Player to Player help channel and ask if anyone knows why you lose soullight for pking enemies in a anarchy zone.

The response I get from 3 people is STFU STUPID PKAR!!
DONT PK IF YOU CANT HANDLE TEH CONZEUNSES!!11

Im confused about something, can someone explain this to me. See I only think using logic. It seems other people make arguments using some sort or of hive mind mentality... or basically if somehting is done that makes other people mad it must be wrong and it doesn't matter how or why. Their arguments don't have to be right, or make sense. It's just if something says or done triggers some kind of base, fickle emotional reaction than they suddenly convince themselves they are right no matter how backward their argument is.

I don't think i even have to state why I did the right thing, even these people knew they had no leg to stand on. I just want to point something else out and ask a question or two.

People like these who claim to be righteous..

You have logged into a roleplaying game where people pay to escape reality and take the role of someone in this case in a dark gritty cyber punk world where many factions are at war with each other. You have attempted to ruin their roleplaying experience by demanding that people conform to some contrived ruleset (which changes at every action that inconviences you in any way) then you step out of the roleplaying arena and into real life and insult and attack the people for simply trying to enjoy the game they paid for.

Lets get something straight here... It isnt about pking lower levels, or pking at genreps or pking while hunting, or anything else. Its about you being pked at all. You not winning. The fact that for that one second you are not the best.

How can people like you live with yourselves? How can you take yourself seriously? In this day and age this type of behavior is seen through so quickly that you might as well just cry. People are reduced to trying to insult the pker in hopes that maybe he in his anger will show some weakness or hypocrisy with which to fuel their own anger and righteousness against the pker. When the pker gives no such thing, they just improvise... in hopes that they that at some point the pker will slip and say something that will bring him down to their pathetic level. They reach and grasp.. a spelling error.. a unlikely claim.. anything they can use to keep their anger going and not have to face reality. Until finally their arguments become so sad that even they cannot deny the truth any longer.

Why dont you just save yourself the trouble of going through this every time you get pked and GROW UP. DEAL WITH IT. GO GET BETTER AND COME BACK. and most importantly DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY.

In terms of why u lost SL in that zone off hand I dont know.
Thats something u have to take up with Tech support.
In terms of PKing I think its fine if both chars are near equal but its the ppl that PK pple 20 ranks lower than them thats fucked.
Its a stat based game if ur 20 lvls lower ur never going to win unless ur a smart PPU

QuantumDelta

14-08-03, 18:04

i hear the whine, but I don't see no cheese, so I guess you ain't done.

So, heavy tanks can survive and come back and kill a couple of people while others have problems with more than one, except the PPU.

..............................Kay, I don't see what a class with so much advantage should be gifted everything.

In terms of duels?
I'm a Pistol PE, I beat tanks, that's skill, not class balance.

One or two tanks are good to the point that they can use the classes "Advantages" to win, no matter what, basically.
I know a few tanks who can take on anyone solo and win providing they're not a PPU.

Ain't no way you should be a "highly specialised combat unit" with the ability to do what other people gimped themselves to do.

Peeping Tom

14-08-03, 18:05

tbh i cant understand why we got the damn hunting zones.. its not like its low lv runner inn em,
i can understand dat you lose sl inn low lv lv spots.. like sewer and aggie cellars, but com on it fucking dum you lose sl inn swamp cave , chaos cave and all of all places MC5 ( its not like low lv runners runn inn there and try to lv )
K4F

icarium

14-08-03, 18:08

Originally posted by Bob Monkhouse
I am sick of hearing this phrase "hardcore PvPers" . These are exactly the same types of people who look at your music collection and say "its OK but I prefer more hardcore/obscure music like Van der Wank's whalesongs and tribal drums at 147BPM" or after seeing a hollywood remake of a film say "I prefer the original Sanskrit language version of that film with no subtitles, its closer to the directors dream" etc.

In other words its elitist crap spouted by people who adopt a supposedly niche position because they think it makes them interesting and superior, without realising that most people simply regard them as boring, conceited wankers.

hehe pld :lol:

AxeMan

14-08-03, 18:08

also worth mentioning its not just
Non LE = pvper
LE = non pvp

some noob need the help of a clan to introduce them to the game so they have to remove the LE and pissing them off hurts the community

i started a small clan about 6 months ago purely to share an app. not to pvp, not for op wars but simply because it was a lot easier to share items etc. (KK please give us shared appartments !!!)

so its not just that if someone has removed their LE they have acknowledged that they are joining the pvp community.

Scikar

14-08-03, 18:09

Originally posted by Mattimeo
Hmm.. was this on saturn last night? and were you on as *poof*?

if so, you weren't ranting in ooc, it was in help, and you left a few things out, like how you were negative and abusive to anyone and everyone who did not agree that you should be able to kill anyone any where without consequences. Maybe I'm wrong, but you and *poof* sound pretty freaking similar. KRININAL99, I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked *poof* last night, why do you whine about the games rules? if you don't like them, and would like to be able to kill anything that moves, there's many other games that would much better suit your tastes.

Personally, I think you're just here because, as is evidenced by your actions, that you just like to gank people who are easy targets, and couldn't really deal with a fair fight all around.

Let me point out that the game didn't start like this. Drops were different at the start of retail, then people whined about the rules and they got changed.

And for crying out loud FUCK OFF with the "you can't deal with a fair fight." If you don't have the ability to beat someone at your level, then you will most likely die within 2 minutes of starting a raid anywhere. Yes noobs get killed but that's like someone in America buying a gun, then heading over to Iraq and wandering about with it, he's gonna get shot by the Iraqis who don't like Americans, and he isn't going to stand a chance. But who's fault is it? maybe if noobs didn't all group together at stupid places like MB bunker they wouldn't get slaughtered. There's a million and one places to hunt the same mobs without getting killed but instead they all flock to MB, and the best way to get a response from the CMs is to waste all their noobs levelling at the bunker, then the high level people can come out and have a proper fight.

icarium

14-08-03, 18:14

Originally posted by Scikar
Let me point out that the game didn't start like this. Drops were different at the start of retail, then people whined about the rules and they got changed.

And for crying out loud FUCK OFF with the "you can't deal with a fair fight." If you don't have the ability to beat someone at your level, then you will most likely die within 2 minutes of starting a raid anywhere. Yes noobs get killed but that's like someone in America buying a gun, then heading over to Iraq and wandering about with it, he's gonna get shot by the Iraqis who don't like Americans, and he isn't going to stand a chance. But who's fault is it? maybe if noobs didn't all group together at stupid places like MB bunker they wouldn't get slaughtered. There's a million and one places to hunt the same mobs without getting killed but instead they all flock to MB, and the best way to get a response from the CMs is to waste all their noobs levelling at the bunker, then the high level people can come out and have a proper fight.

thats right new peeps shouldnt be able to go to good places to level without getting killed, what were they thinking? :rolleyes:

Lareolan

14-08-03, 18:14

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 18:16

Originally posted by Mattimeo
Hmm.. was this on saturn last night? and were you on as *poof*?

Yes I am poof... and all the stuff you just said were lies... I said no such thing. Never seen antipkers sink that low b4...

@ ghandisfury - Once again with the anyone who pks must have done it unfairly argument... Being the first person to attack is what wins a fight 90% of the time. That is hardly something to be called "unfair". Im rank 45... I killed a rank 42 PE, a rank 65 ppu, and a rank 2/3 apu by accident because I couldnt see his rank and subsequently apologized and paid him some credits. I don't attack people at genreps or any of that other contrived bs. I have been called a n00b ganker b4 for killing people twice my rank.. The truth is its just an argument used by people when they loose and it doesn't matter if it has any basis in reality.

@ Axeman- That is probably the most Intelligent antipker argument I have heard yet. But where do you draw the line between just doing what wont make anyone angry and giving up your right to enjoy the game? The game has already been all but destroyed to accomadate these immature anti-pkers. I don't go nuts when I get pked. People can get mad because the world doesn't revolve solely around them... does that mean you cater to their every whim simply to make things easier?

It's just my opinion that people should be forced to tailor their emotions to what is right as opposed to the world forced to tailor itself to peoples emotions. It becomes more difficult when you are talking about 90% of the people.. (example people arguing against slavery in the U.S. back when it was accepted were thought of as "immature" and "troublemakers" and all else)
This is the same occurence that caused all the anti PVP changes in this game. When the game was realeased on retail it was flooded with new players who were falsely encouraged (by the community) to take out their LE b4 they were ready. Next thing you know the forums are being spammed with immature antipk arguments and KK nerfs PVP at their whim. Now most of them left because the game got boring without the PVP status it had before and those people are once again in the minority.

So now not only are the antipker arguments wrong, they no longer have the strength that many people are making them. Time to fix the game.

Edit @ qd No thats self dillusion qd. A PE has a huge advantage against a tank in a "duel" type situation, especially if both sides are allowed to buff first. There are some ways to level the field a bit, but its not by using a CS and trying to out dance a PE. Maybe using a plasma wave and only attacking at range, or Using a moonstriker and spamming the floor. Some tanks are even so much better than the PE that they CAN outdance one despite their decreased speed and accuracy when fighting a alert enemy. Heavy Tanks are not combat specialized.. the advantages I listed were specific to a very small group of situations... Which I stuck to as EMD. Pistols beat cannons up close when the players are equally skilled. Everyone knows that.

@larleon Yeah but OZ isn't really considered in city walls I don't think. After DOY all copbots will be removed from Pepper park from what I heard and the two gang factions and Crahn sect have to stay in Pepper park and Outzone.

djskum

14-08-03, 18:30

I think that's fucking stupid! The outzone's supposed to be dangerous isn't it???

Grrrrrrr....

DjSKum

djskum

14-08-03, 18:34

Originally posted by Scikar
and the best way to get a response from the CMs is to waste all their noobs levelling at the bunker, then the high level people can come out and have a proper fight.

LOL and get pwned by us ;-)

However you won't find many CM n00bs at the bunker. More tangent and biotechs. We come out coz we like the fight ;-) As a n00b you should keep your fucking head down, NOT go to the big time PK spots. Maybe an FAQ telling n00bs where the "hot spots" are would be an idea?

DjSKum

Lareolan

14-08-03, 18:35

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Anyone who takes out their LE does it to participate in pvp. If you dont want to participate in pvp and the whole game war thing then dont take out the LE. Its not an insult its just that simple. People take it as an insult because suggesting it further implies that the person is not "ready" for PVP which is the real insecurity that the crybaby antipker is dealing with. The person TOOK out their LE specifically because they wanted to participate in PVP. If they REALLY believed there was something wrong with pking then they would just accept the LE as a way to play the game without worrying about it.

I only have one word for you here: "Clans"
If you can't figure out that you are playing an RPG (RolePlaying Game) where the social aspect is a very important part of the game and at the core of that social aspect are clans, they you simply aren't worth my time. Or anyone's time for that matter.

I think LE was a bad idea from the start simply because there has to be a different way to designate yourself as a non-combatant and yet be able to fully participate in all other activities (not to mention the loss of a brain slot hurts).

HellHound

14-08-03, 18:38

Once, just once, I'd like to be able to browse through a thread that contains the phrase 'PvP' or 'PK' - without the extremists from one side or the other (or both) turning it into a rabid flag-waving contest. :rolleyes:

Just depressing to see how many of them there are at any given time. :(

ghandisfury

14-08-03, 18:40

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
@ ghandisfury - Once again with the anyone who pks must have done it unfairly argument... Being the first person to attack is what wins a fight 90% of the time. That is hardly something to be called "unfair". Im rank 45... I killed a rank 42 PE, a rank 65 ppu, and a rank 2/3 apu by accident because I couldnt see his rank and subsequently apologized and paid him some credits. I don't attack people at genreps or any of that other contrived bs. I have been called a n00b ganker b4 for killing people twice my rank.. The truth is its just an argument used by people when they loose and it doesn't matter if it has any basis in reality.

Whether you are the PKer of the past or not is irrelivent. I did not say it was unfair, but let's point out a few facts. If you are saying you killed a 42 PE (I'm assuming you're using threat rank) then the best gun he could have had is a descent raygun or assult rifle (anything non-rare). A rank 45 tank is more than likely carrying a CS....ranks are fucked, you know this as well as I do.

My questions is why were you there? To hunt or to PK? If you were there to hunt, why are you PKing? If you where there to PK then why were you THERE? Why not go somewhere where it's sure to be a challenge? That spot is known for low level players trying to level to a point that they are at least a challenge in PvP. If this is the way you play the game then fine....my problem comes from the capped (insert character here) who don't want a challenge when they are out to PK. They just want to kill and ask questions later.

Lareolan

14-08-03, 18:47

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Not that any of this is relevant considering I'm talking about pking faction enemies... a concept which you people fail to understand. I guess you suppose enemy faction members should meet in the streets and sit down and have a cup of tea? The truth is you want to ruin the game to satisfy your fickle desires. If you people had it your way the game would have some ruleset where people can only attack you when you had no chance of losing. Only problem is that doesn't work to well when there is more than one person in the game does it?

Sorry to burst your bubble but I frequently sit down for a cup of tea (or jack wisky) with enemy faction members while discussing business or just having a friendly chat. Does that mean I break RP by not shooting them? Why does belonging to a faction mean I have to hate all of the faction's enemies? Unless all the factions have adopted the American way of propaganda, brainwashing and media censoring to create a race of mindless automatons I don't see why I can't chose my own friends and allies even among those of a faction opposed to my own? True, if I meet them on a battlefield with my clan, we will be fighting and I will be shooting those same "friends", but just because those runners are red to me, does not mean their credit card's magnetic stripe is not black.

If you always shoot red without asking questions, then you're the one who breaks RP unless you really do RP a criminal (and not a faction member) in which case you should not have a GR clone (Since someone would have been hired long ago to wipe all records of you anywhere), so next time you die, it's reroll time.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 18:47

Originally posted by ghandisfury
Whether you are the PKer of the past or not is irrelivent. I did not say it was unfair, but let's point out a few facts. If you are saying you killed a 42 PE (I'm assuming you're using threat rank) then the best gun he could have had is a descent raygun or assult rifle (anything non-rare). A rank 45 tank is more than likely carrying a CS....ranks are fucked, you know this as well as I do.

My questions is why were you there? To hunt or to PK? If you were there to hunt, why are you PKing? If you where there to PK then why were you THERE? Why not go somewhere where it's sure to be a challenge? That spot is known for low level players trying to level to a point that they are at least a challenge in PvP. If this is the way you play the game then fine....my problem comes from the capped (insert character here) who don't want a challenge when they are out to PK. They just want to kill and ask questions later.

Well first of all I was a rank 45 spy with a gatlin pistol. Second I was hunting CA people because I needed more TG sympathy to take harder missions. In case you forgot the game rewards you for killing enemy faction mebers by giving you more sympathy towards your own faction. And that was the place where people my level were most likely to be.

@ Lorelean This is a game, its wrong to shoot people IN REAL LIFE. This isn't REAL LIFE. Yes you are breaking roleplaying by chilling with enemy faction members, especially if its two factions like BD and TSUNAMI. Noone cares if you do that, but don't complain when one shoots you for his own safety or becuase he wants to be rewarded by his faction.

And that anti-american comment is in no way based in reality.. People say that about other cultures when they get frusterated that those people don't see things their way. Political discussions are very prone to becoming flame flests and IF they are allowed in a place like this then people certainly should not be using anger causing statements such as those which are obviously untrue. (which is why its against the forum rules btw)

About your earlier statement, thats the way the game is. Its LE and no PVP or no LE and PVP at any time. This idea that pvp should only involve clans or only exist at OP battles has no place in this game. This is evidenced by the fact that you are given missions to pk enemy faction members and recieve sympathy for doing it all other times.

Kugero

14-08-03, 18:51

Unless all the factions have adopted the American way of propaganda, brainwashing and media censoring to create a race of mindless automatons I don't see why I can't chose my own friends and allies even among those of a faction opposed to my own?

o_O

Bob Monkhouse

14-08-03, 19:17

The old "why do dumbass newbs go to the bunker to level....blah blah " arguement is utterly self defeating.

Bunker=Pker paradise because newbs level there in a team. Its a well known, easily accessible hunting area where you can get a good team easily.

ANY location that takes its place which meets the same criteria will soon become "bunker 2, return of the Pker".

Its like running someone over at a pedestrian crossing then saying they should have expected it because they were crossing the road.

Or to use your own analogy in a more sensible and appropriate way, its like Iraqis flying to the US and killing all the farmboys in Boot Camp, rather than an poor lil' American being killed in Iraq.

OH, and talking to a faction enemy or being friendly with them does not "break" RP. RP is not a set of concrete rules. If you want a fixed Black/white storyline go watch a Chuck Norris film. RED=ENEMY, I KILL is lazy, unimaginative Roleplay. Its still RP, but not as we know it Jim.

Promethius

14-08-03, 19:35

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Noob.
You wanna shoot shit you deal with the consequences.
:P

I realise that's a line outta krims post ;)

Hopefully KK will never be dumb enough to cater for the likes of you... "Mr. PKer" heh, right.

And, how exactly can you have carebear factions that are hostile to no one in a game at the same time as some "hardcore" who are hostile to everyone? ... friggin retard.

"Hardcore" Players, would be able to deal with the lost soul light.
One of my clan mates (not noob) went down to -100SL, didn't die managed to work his way up to -32 (And then couldn't be arsed doing anymore missions).

Someone I fought in an op fight just yesterday was running around on red SL, he wasn't being that cocky, I think he had a lotta guts to stay though.

More than starkes teh nub or any PKer I've ever known had.
Get some balls pls.

well didn't care to think about the red with eevryone and allied with everyone doh! But i already kno this will enver happen it is just like a hope =P.

The comment about the no SL....i jsut hate it and feel as tho you could kill people without having to pause now adn then for missions.

P.S. (i made that previous post 6 in teh mornin)

Mattimeo

14-08-03, 20:22

Yes I am poof... and all the stuff you just said were lies... I said no such thing. Never seen antipkers sink that low b4...

I have no need to lie, and you betray yourself in your posts. "immature carebears" was it? General and personal attacks gotta love them :D I still havent seen you answer the question, but then again, maybe I expect too much in the form of a logical answer...

Helen Angilley

14-08-03, 20:25

Krim:
You lose all credibility by screeching about Roleplay...yet flat out refuse to believe that people in "enemy" factions can get along.

Just like you rant about Roleplay "not being about standing around talking all the time" it's not "omg j00 red = KOS! LOL!" either.

You've just blown apart your own argument with that statement.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 20:29

Originally posted by Mattimeo
I have no need to lie, and you betray yourself in your posts. "immature carebears" was it? General and personal attacks gotta love them :D I still havent seen you answer the question, but then again, maybe I expect too much in the form of a logical answer...

You seem to have confused yourself into thinking you have some leg to stand on... I am doing the same now that I am then. Noone is perfect. Anyone when childishly insulted by someone is going to react in a negative way. The point is - Who started it and who fuels it? While you and others like you are enflamed by the simplest TRUE comments or apparently a request for help, it takes me about 4 people on help channel insulting me immaturely for me to result to any kind of insulting on the same level. And even THEN, I stop and attempt to continue rational discussion at the first sign of anything resembling mature conversation. Im sorry but if you think cursing someone out, calling them 12, saying their stupid, and whatever else till someone finally gets mildly irritated and calls you immature proves that they are anywhere near as rediculous as you are then you are mistaken.

@ Helen A - Your not making much sense anymore... why don't you just give up. And this time I mean I can't (and probably noone else can either) figure out what it is exactly you are even trying to say... Anyways I never said that people in enemy factions cant get along... Its breaking roleplay but its up to them and doesn't effect anyone else. The screwed up part is when people complain about others killing enemy faction members...
Frankly your psuedo logic statements are getting old.. I seriously doubt any one falls for them but you.

Shakari

14-08-03, 20:32

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Oh brother... Even this thread is flooded with the same obviously immature 3 yr old logic that you see in game.

I didn't even think I had to explain this on the forum but in anarchy zones (like pepper park etc) you lose soullight ONLY for pking people allied to you with positive soullight, noone else. Anarchy zones are like all over the wasteland, pepper park etc. Outzone 8 is labled an ANARCHY ZONE.

First of all to people like QD... The point of this post was to show how despite all the anitpkers claims about pkers being immature and not objective in their claims, it is actually the ANTIPKERS who flood the forums, the game help chat, everything with immature biased illogical bs. This outta be obvious since being pked puts someone in an emotional state where they are likely to say anything to protect themselves from the sentiment that they are not the best. (and continue to troll logical forum posts on the subject with the same immature bs if they are of the type that always looses and are in a constant state of this type of denial... cough HA)

Anyone who takes out their LE does it to participate in pvp. If you dont want to participate in pvp and the whole game war thing then dont take out the LE. Its not an insult its just that simple. People take it as an insult because suggesting it further implies that the person is not "ready" for PVP which is the real insecurity that the crybaby antipker is dealing with. The person TOOK out their LE specifically because they wanted to participate in PVP. If they REALLY believed there was something wrong with pking then they would just accept the LE as a way to play the game without worrying about it.

@ Axeman Im not saying that the game is a competition where you have to win. IM not the one that thinks that way, Im just playing the game and run into an enemy faction member on the streets and pk them. If they kill me then Im not a "loser" in my mind. My point is the antipkers are "Losers" in their mind when they die and thats what drives them to spam everything with their immature arguments.

@bd OZ 8 is hardly a low lvl hunting zone, and I was the same level as the other character. Its about on the level of MB bunker and most importantly is NOT labled as a Hunting zone. But then you dont actually care about REALITY... you just hope to twist the situation around in someway where you can get satisfaction by dragging one of "those pkers" down to your level.

Instead of trying to change the world to fit you constantly, always complaining in your emotional fits hoping that the company will right then decide to cater to your childish demands and further wreck the game... Why don't you use those same arguments about why it was "unfair" to just convince yourself that you don't suck and there is nothing to be afraid of, and just learn from the experience and move on. The first person to decide to attack in a situation is probably going to be the winner... thats just the way the game is designed. It doesn't matter if the person is much higher or lower or SI impaired or what. So you can pretty much figure that if someone attacks you when you dont expect it your gonna die no matter your skill. That doesn't mean you suck, it just means you took out your LE and then don't ready your self for PVP. Not very intelligent, but nothing to fling yourself into a 3 yr old state hurling insults at the person trying to save yourself from the thought that you aren't any good...

Oh lol nice you go on as if your opinion is the right one and the only one, maybe the changes in the game you don't like and as you have said, more in your opinion would "wreck the game" but don't forget there are far more ppl than you in the game and just because some like the "carebear" changes does not mean there wrong, I am not a carebear as such but i don't pvp as a rule and don't like it forced on me when I am chatting to friends at CRP for instance.

I like the game for the social aspects :) thus i remove my le and join a clan, but not for PVP, you don't remove you LE for PVP only
I didn't

And why not try to change the game to how it suits you lol Your doing it now as am I lol, so its kinda hypicritical to say that :)

Helen Angilley

14-08-03, 20:42

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
@ Helen A - Your not making much sense anymore... why don't you just give up. And this time I mean I can't (and probably noone else can either) figure out what it is exactly you are even trying to say... Anyways I never said that people in enemy factions cant get along... Its breaking roleplay but its up to them and doesn't effect anyone else. The screwed up part is when people complain about others killing enemy faction members...

No love, it's very simple.

You moan and whinge about people "breaking Roleplay" by actually....y'know....Roleplaying in a way with "enemy" factions that doesn't constitute violence. That's not breaking Roleplay, that's deepening it.

The thing is that you whine about weak Roleplay (Using what I just mentioned as an incredibly poor and crumbly example) yet you have yet to provide a believable excuse for random ganking.

The "homocidal maniac" thing doesn't cut it, because a "homocidal maniac" wouldn't be in any state of mind to keep his killing to one type of person...in game terms, that means if you're going to hide behind "My character's HOMPSYCHIAL!!" then you should be attacking _everyone_ including NPCs and members of your own Faction.

Anyway, I don't expect a reply to this (After all, you're incapable of undestanding me apparently.....and you also seem unable to see the other person's viewpoint while crying that they don't see your's. ;) ) and it's my last post on the matter anyway.

Enjoy yourself, love, your "debate" died a while ago, just a few shaky pillars remain now.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 20:50

Originally posted by Shakari
Oh lol nice you go on as if your opinion is the right one and the only one, maybe the changes in the game you don't like and as you have said, more in your opinion would "wreck the game" but don't forget there are far more ppl than you in the game and just because some like the "carebear" changes does not mean there wrong

I like the game for the social aspects :) thus i remove my le and join a clan, but not for PVP, you don't remove you LE for PVP only
I didn't

Actually a ton of people left after the PVP changes because the game got boring. It was a lot more crowded then then it is now.
The game does have social aspects, although much less than many other games such as AO. And it has worse graphics than AO. And a lot of other things... What Neocron DID have was an awesome PVP system. But now thats gone.

See there is actually a right and a wrong. There is nothing wrong with wanting things to be the RIGHT way. I don't enjoy being pked either but I have the intelligence and foresight to realize its a necessary part of the game. The important thing is to make sure your argument is logically sound and not just based on what you want. As opposed to just emotional bs which many antipkers seem to love to post and spam everywhere with.

Oh and you seem to have forgotten a major point. The game was designed by Developers to have certain kinds of player interaction (the PVP system for instance) that would make the game most fun. The rules that are in place now were not carefully designed and planned... they are the result of a bunch of whining by antipkers. So once again if the game is going to be purged of rules based on just what biased people want then the rules would ahve to be set back to their previous state. Thats besides the fact that what I want is what is the most fun and I just happened to think about it as much as the developers had. So far all the people who flame me haven't thought about anything at all. They are just flaming based on their fickle emotions and try and do/say anything that will make them seem more objective and logical than they really are.

There is a win-win situation here... KK releases Neptune with all the original PVP rules. But I guarantee you all the current "antipkers" will show up on neptune soon after its inception and STILL have the audacity to complain about pkers.

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
No love, it's very simple.

You moan and whinge about people "breaking Roleplay" by actually....y'know....Roleplaying in a way with "enemy" factions that doesn't constitute violence. That's not breaking Roleplay, that's deepening it.

The thing is that you whine about weak Roleplay (Using what I just mentioned as an incredibly poor and crumbly example) yet you have yet to provide a believable excuse for random ganking.

The "homocidal maniac" thing doesn't cut it, because a "homocidal maniac" wouldn't be in any state of mind to keep his killing to one type of person...in game terms, that means if you're going to hide behind "My character's HOMPSYCHIAL!!" then you should be attacking _everyone_ including NPCs and members of your own Faction.

Anyway, I don't expect a reply to this (After all, you're incapable of undestanding me apparently.....and you also seem unable to see the other person's viewpoint while crying that they don't see your's. ;) ) and it's my last post on the matter anyway.

I never said that enemy leaders convining about the state of affairs was weak roleplay. I said enemy factions chilling together and hunting or worse even pvping together is weak roleplay.
Also you and many others need to get through your head that killing enemy faction members IS A TYPE OF ROLEPLAY. Nothing in the definition of roleplay says that carebears have to accept how you choose to do it. And I don't play a homocidal maniac anymore, and when I did I did attack everyone in sight(allies and all). I stopped that character when the new PVP rules made it impossible to manage. (by way of fun/motivation)

I don't think anyone understands your statements half the time.. I adress everyone elses viewpoints but they never adress my replies, the best they can do is just repeat what they said and totally ignore any reply. Probably because their arguments make no logical sense and I point that out ever time I reply... So they just do it again hoping to sound right anyways... The problem is your fundamental concepts that you seem to have accepted as fact- such as that pking isnt roleplaying bs.
Basing your belief system on emotional arguments is what impairs everyones learning and ability to deal with problems..

At least have the maturity to recognize someone who has taken the time to make sure they do not base their arguments on their fickle emotional desires and shut your trap.

KRIMINAL99

14-08-03, 21:03

accidental powerpost... soz

Spy<VS>Spy

14-08-03, 21:14

You only should care about soul light if you die allot or plan on going to plaza sectors...if you dont meet either of those requirements, hose them, bend em over your knee spank em untill they shut up or cancel their account.

Make your ammo happy today, kill some whiners.

Shakari

14-08-03, 22:16

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Actually a ton of people left after the PVP changes because the game got boring. It was a lot more crowded then then it is now.
The game does have social aspects, although much less than many other games such as AO. And it has worse graphics than AO. And a lot of other things... What Neocron DID have was an awesome PVP system. But now thats gone.

See there is actually a right and a wrong. There is nothing wrong with wanting things to be the RIGHT way. I don't enjoy being pked either but I have the intelligence and foresight to realize its a necessary part of the game. The important thing is to make sure your argument is logically sound and not just based on what you want. As opposed to just emotional bs which many antipkers seem to love to post and spam everywhere with.

Oh and you seem to have forgotten a major point. The game was designed by Developers to have certain kinds of player interaction (the PVP system for instance) that would make the game most fun. The rules that are in place now were not carefully designed and planned... they are the result of a bunch of whining by antipkers. So once again if the game is going to be purged of rules based on just what biased people want then the rules would ahve to be set back to their previous state. Thats besides the fact that what I want is what is the most fun and I just happened to think about it as much as the developers had. So far all the people who flame me haven't thought about anything at all. They are just flaming based on their fickle emotions and try and do/say anything that will make them seem more objective and logical than they really are.

There is a win-win situation here... KK releases Neptune with all the original PVP rules. But I guarantee you all the current "antipkers" will show up on neptune soon after its inception and STILL have the audacity to complain about pkers.

I never said that enemy leaders convining about the state of affairs was weak roleplay. I said enemy factions chilling together and hunting or worse even pvping together is weak roleplay.
Also you and many others need to get through your head that killing enemy faction members IS A TYPE OF ROLEPLAY. Nothing in the definition of roleplay says that carebears have to accept how you choose to do it. And I don't play a homocidal maniac anymore, and when I did I did attack everyone in sight(allies and all). I stopped that character when the new PVP rules made it impossible to manage. (by way of fun/motivation)

I don't think anyone understands your statements half the time.. I adress everyone elses viewpoints but they never adress my replies, the best they can do is just repeat what they said and totally ignore any reply. Probably because their arguments make no logical sense and I point that out ever time I reply... So they just do it again hoping to sound right anyways... The problem is your fundamental concepts that you seem to have accepted as fact- such as that pking isnt roleplaying bs.
Basing your belief system on emotional arguments is what impairs everyones learning and ability to deal with problems..

At least have the maturity to recognize someone who has taken the time to make sure they do not base their arguments on their fickle emotional desires and shut your trap.

No there is not a right and wrong only ppls opinions and what they like, also a lot of ppl left because of the PK'ing before the changes, 3 ppl who where friends left because of it,
and no I didin't miss that major point, but u seem to forget that the game in not about ONLY pvp at least 1/2 the game is not about it. ie epics, trades skills mob hunting, GM events etc

and the changes where not made my whining anti-pk'er, they are there opinions, not whining, and consdiering that they got the changes there were a lot of them,

the changes don't effect constructive pk'ing stick to ememies and anarchy zones or war zones and your fine

if your bitching or whining about not being able to PK in low lvl noob areas (aggies pits, storage 8 etc) then I am glad that another PK'er has been stopped, noob killing is very pointless and ruins the game for new ppl

Scikar

14-08-03, 23:03

Shakari

15-08-03, 02:07

Originally posted by Scikar
WTF get the point please. Nobody is bothered about killing noobs in sewers, that's just pointless and everyone agrees about it. Losing SL for killing such noobs is a good change. The part we don't like is the stupid belt rules. Before they got changed, PvP was exciting, knowing there was a PKer nearby gave you a rush of adrenaline, you were always thinking, do I fight him, maybe get his rare and save a few people, or do I run so I don't lose my weapon? You could actually stop PKers because they weren't stupid enough to run into a bunch of enemies where they would lose their weapon. Now nobody gives a damn about dying because you don't lose anything.

ok to the point:

the only reason to change the system atm is if you want to kill in hunting zones. otherwise the system is ok

You can lose stuff, I have seen 3 tanks lose there CS's in fights, and i don't do PVP :) all u need is a little organisation and a hacker but as usual monk come out worst when losing stuff cos of there multiply spells in there quicklslots :(

I don't like the idea of going back to how is was personally because if you remember ina fight as soon as someone realises that they r going to lose, they put everything into there backpacks, and ppl bitched about that lol coz they got no loot from kiling ppl and th fight was no challenge as the lose stood still while putting stuff into his backpack.

You see everone likes the idea of getting loot from killing someone but no-one wants to lose anything, know i don't, and for ppl to get my stuff when the kill me wheni don't want to do pvp just sucks imo

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 02:18

People like starkes appeared to have only left after they couldn't get away with what they did with zero consequence.

You are the one that cannot Roleplay.

If this conversation (Debate, argument, bitch-fest, whatever the fuck you think you can justify it as), had taken place in the german community, you'd have been ridiculed for your F6-RP.

You should really go back to playing games like CS or PS.
You would be rewarded, and happy there.

edit;
hell you might even wake up one day with some skills.

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 03:32

Originally posted by Shakari
No there is not a right and wrong only ppls opinions and what they like, also a lot of ppl left because of the PK'ing before the changes, 3 ppl who where friends left because of it,
and no I didin't miss that major point, but u seem to forget that the game in not about ONLY pvp at least 1/2 the game is not about it. ie epics, trades skills mob hunting, GM events etc

and the changes where not made my whining anti-pk'er, they are there opinions, not whining, and consdiering that they got the changes there were a lot of them,

the changes don't effect constructive pk'ing stick to ememies and anarchy zones or war zones and your fine

if your bitching or whining about not being able to PK in low lvl noob areas (aggies pits, storage 8 etc) then I am glad that another PK'er has been stopped, noob killing is very pointless and ruins the game for new ppl

I know 3 antipkers that claimed they were leaving if KK didnt meet their childish demands and never left.. and others that left and came back b4 the changes. The point being that its just an immature tactic used by them. On the other hand many people left because of the boringness of the game after quickbelts were locked. They don't spam the forum with goodbye rants they just leave cause the game is boring and they couldnt give a sh!! about it anymore. Yes there is a right and wrong... There is a way the game is fun and interesting and a way the game is screwed up. Since the game is supposed to be fun then its safe to call whatever makes it that right. Nobody argues that the game should be as fun as possible. Its just immature "ME WANT NOW" antipkers don't realize that the things they want/wanted make the game worse because they don't have the foresight. They don't realize that the old drop rules actually INCREASED the number of each weapon in the economy and drove prices down because some people who lost them made another one while the one they lost didn't leave the system. They don't think... period.

QD... first off I killed you AND your clanmate at the SAME time so if I dont have skills where does that leave you? Second of all.. who gives a flying donkey ##$ about anyone ridiculing anyone? I'm making an valid argument here and if any immature people want to come into the thread no matter where it is and insult me or make childish statements then guess what... they are only proving my point more by displaying their ignorance. Ill say it once more you do NOT have the right to judge other peoples definition of roleplay. If you dont like it go play AO or some other virtual chatroom game. And no you don't get rewarded for your kills with any kind of in character benefit in those games, thats why Neocron was always better.

Helen Angilley

15-08-03, 03:35

I know dozens of PK'ers that claimed they were leaving if KK didn't meet their childish demands and never left....and others that left and came back before the changes. The point being that its just an immature tactic used by them. On the other hand many people left because of the whining from PK'ers after quickbelts were locked. They don't spam the forum with goodbye rants they just leave cause the game is boring and they couldnt give a darn about it anymore. Yes there is a right and wrong...There is a way the game is fun and interesting and a way the game is screwed up. Since the game is supposed to be fun then its safe to call whatever makes it that right. Nobody argues that the game should be as fun as possible. Its just immature "ME WANT NOW" PK'ers don't realize that the things they want/wanted make the game worse because they don't have the foresight. They don't realize that the old drop rules actually DECREASED the number of each weapon in the economy and drove prices up because some people who lost them made another one, while the one they lost didn't leave the system, but were stupid enough to pay ridiculous prices for the replacement. They don't think... period.

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 03:42

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
I know dozens of PK'ers that claimed they were leaving if KK didn't meet their childish demands and never left....and others that left and came back before the changes. The point being that its just an immature tactic used by them. On the other hand many people left because of the whining from PK'ers after quickbelts were locked. They don't spam the forum with goodbye rants they just leave cause the game is boring and they couldnt give a darn about it anymore. Yes there is a right and wrong...There is a way the game is fun and interesting and a way the game is screwed up. Since the game is supposed to be fun then its safe to call whatever makes it that right. Nobody argues that the game should be as fun as possible. Its just immature "ME WANT NOW" PK'ers don't realize that the things they want/wanted make the game worse because they don't have the foresight. They don't realize that the old drop rules actually DECREASED the number of each weapon in the economy and drove prices up because some people who lost them made another one, while the one they lost didn't leave the system, but were stupid enough to pay ridiculous prices for the replacement. They don't think... period.

Why did you just copy my entire post and just insert "people left because pkers whined to much" ? Do you really think anyone is stupid enough to believe that someone would leave the game because someone debated on the forum about something? Leave the thread already you aparently have nothing to say.

Helen Angilley

15-08-03, 03:45

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Why did you just copy my entire post and just insert "people left because pkers whined to much" ? Do you really think anyone is stupid enough to believe that someone would leave the game because someone debated on the forum about something? Leave the thread already you aparently have nothing to say.

Thought you were willing to listen to others' views, Krim? Or have you conveniently forgotten your little rant about people refusing to acknowledge that there are other ways of seeing things? :)

Also, you contradict yourself with the "leaving because of something debated on a forum" thing.

The belt change was discussed, at enormous length, before it was implemented. Therefore those people you claim left because of these changes, left because of something discussed on the forum. ;)

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 03:48

Heh, Krim.
You killed me?

I don't remember that one...............
completely new on me, I remember you getting close one time, but I also remember after I got my four slot ryker napalm all you ever did was run like the little chicken you are.
..

And, she's right.

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 03:52

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
Thought you were willing to listen to others' views, Krim? Or have you conveniently forgotten your little rant about people refusing to acknowledge that there are other ways of seeing things? :)

Also, you contradict yourself with the "leaving because of something debated on a forum" thing.

The belt change was discussed, at enormous length, before it was implemented. Therefore those people you claim left because of these changes, left because of something discussed on the forum. ;)

You didnt have a view... You just copied my whole post and switched a few words (which I really hope is against the rules as spamming or something..) and it made absolutely no sense that way.

... No they left because the game was changed not because it was discussed on the forum... If it was just discussed and not implemented then they wouldnt have left. A perfect example of flawed logic. You can take classes for that you know... They teach you how important it is to not make generalizations and assumptions. It would do you really good and keep you from trolling intelligent thought out threads and posts for a while.

Btw the people who werent in emotional states about being pked where too busy enjoying the game to even bother replying to the antipkers whining back then. They never thought KK would actually consider nerfing PVP at all considering all advertising and documentation and in game design revolved around PVP.

@QD Oh im sorry you ran away with like 5 health left and I couldn't get to you before you got a way with the parashock and all.. same difference to me. I never ran from you QD.. I don't keep track of who shows up 20 minutes after I pk someone somewhere. Who HA? LOL Right about what? All that girl ever does is run around and spam peoples threads with passive aggressive bs just trying to make them mad or something...

You two seriously, if you don't have something constructive to say, or an relevant argument, then stay out of the thread.

Helen Angilley

15-08-03, 03:55

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
You didnt have a view... You just copied my whole post and switched a few words (which I really hope is against the rules as spamming or something..) and it made absolutely no sense that way.

... No they left because the game was changed not because it was discussed on the forum... If it was just discussed and not implemented then they wouldnt have left. A perfect example of flawed logic. You can take classes for that you know... They teach you how important it is to not make generalizations and assumptions. It would do you really good and keep you from trolling intelligent thought out threads and posts for a while.

Btw the people who werent in emotional states about being pked where too busy enjoying the game to even bother replying to the antipkers whining back then. They never thought KK would actually consider nerfing PVP at all considering all advertising and documentation and in game design revolved around PVP.

I had a view. It was exactly like your's but with with a few key words altered, thus becoming the opposite of your view. Something you're apparently tolerant of (Although going by your reaction, you aren't).

Yes, they left because of the changes. Changes discussed on the forum and had a majority ruling in the end. No other way about it there.

"All advertising and documentation" revolved around PVP? Oh? give a few examples love, maybe your "argument" will have credibility then.

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 04:02

rofl, krim.

Two words.
Military Base.

IIRC someone ran in from outside (on full HP) Lasted about five seconds before running like hell from me.

It wasn't a parashock it was MY freezer pistol.
I didn't run, I just stood there as you ran (after what I heard had happened outside I was laughing at how such a noob could get so lucky, since you had the drop on me - I wasn't buffed.) and healed up, following you up to MB Genrep where you'd stopped to try to heal up, of course since I get more damage on my heal I heal faster than you do, which is half the reason I let you run, even if you had come back I'd be ready before you were.

You couldn't do shit.

ME running from YOU?

Don't remember it even once.

You simply cannot stand by your statements when your actions don't support them.
"I ran into PP1 and shot at 3 star players"
LLLLLLOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL
Seriously.... you crack me up.

Helen Angilley

15-08-03, 04:08

*Yawn*

Anyway, bed time for me.

Krim, direct your arguments and comments to a brick wall, maybe then...just maybe....you'll be able to claim victory in a debate.

*Scratches self. Wanders off to bed as it's 3am*

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 04:09

Originally posted by Helen Angilley
I had a view. It was exactly like your's but with with a few key words altered, thus becoming the opposite of your view. Something you're apparently tolerant of (Although going by your reaction, you aren't).

Yes, they left because of the changes. Changes discussed on the forum and had a majority ruling in the end. No other way about it there.

"All advertising and documentation" revolved around PVP? Oh? give a few examples love, maybe your "argument" will have credibility then.

Tolerance of other people's opinions means not trying to stop them from making an argument. It doesn't mean not pointing out how rediculous it is that someone shows up and copies someone else's arguments changing words around to the point where not a word said in the paragraph makes any logical sense and the statements now contradict themselves.

The point was I said that people don't quit the game just because pkers are now stating on the forums about how the gameplay is ruined. Another words people would only leave if a change was made. You said HAWR U CONTRADIXTED UR SELF because I said after that people left because PVP was ACTUALLY NERFED.. Not just DISCUSSED but actually was CHANGED. Therefore I obviously did not contradict myself. Now plz stop spamming constructive threads.

There must be about 20 examples on the places I JUST said. "Soullight is not a penalty system its a way of life" "A PVP based MMORPG developed by reakktor" You get missions in the game which tell you to KILL other runners (and in response people like you PAY people to let you kill them and then claim that the game is not PVP based.. :rolleyes: ) You get symapthy for KILLING other runners normally. etc etc.

By H A
"*Yawn*

Anyway, bed time for me.

Krim, direct your arguments and comments to a brick wall, maybe then...just maybe....you'll be able to claim victory in a debate.

*Scratches self. Wanders off to bed as it's 3am*"

Judging by your logical thinking skills, I am.
and your going to bed? THANK GOD FOR THAT.

@ QD now your just making stuff up.. enough with the In game stuff anyways, this is obviously just a last ditch attempt to end a relevant thread by trying to hijack it into being something against the rules. If you don't have something relevant and logical to say then leave.

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 04:17

Typically, I find a friend in that faction and duel them until I win.
Only once did I not win first time (........*mumbles about hivemind*) hiver was busy so he eventually just said "fuck it kill me" heh :P oh well that's what I get for picking on a rifle PE with a skill equal to or slightly greater than my own...

You judge.
You do it badly.

Me? Pay?
Only one time have I ever paid for my epic kill, which was the biotech kill required for the temp epic (because there are ZERO biotechs on uranus ffs, only a rarepart I didn't need anyway...)

I prefer not to kill people without them knowing I'm coming.
Therefore, my PvP is restricted, but not exclusive to:

KoS
Op wars
Duels
FFAs.

I get plenty of PvP in, thank you very fucking much.

Constructive?
This thread is about as constructive as am armed falling nuclear weapon anyway.

Helen's gone to bed.

PvP was far, far from nerfed, it's still very much alive thank you, it just means that you can't get away with your bullshit without actually having to think about it......for shame.

RP? Your RP was non-existant, your F6-RP was effectively removed as a viable option due to your completely untrustworthy conduct before hand.
We knew who, and what, we were dealing with, you would do whatever you could get away with, where ever you could get away with it.

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 04:27

Lol I could easily go back to that server and deal with the sl changes if I wanted to. I just didn't know about how you can kill nuetral sl people at the time back then and didn't care because the chages were such a blow to the enjoyment of the game.

The thread WAS constructive until you and Helen came into it and started flinging 3 yr old insults, totally illogical arguments, and repeating the same arguments over and over after I have already proven them worthless time and time again.

One more time... You nor anyone else have the right to judge anyone elses roleplay. Nothing in the definition of roleplay says that little QD and Helen Agility has to approve your definition of roleplay in order for it to be valid. I really wish someone would ban you from the forums for spamming and trolling.

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 04:43

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Lol I could easily go back to that server and deal with the sl changes if I wanted to. I just didn't know about how you can kill nuetral sl people at the time back then and didn't care because the chages were such a blow to the enjoyment of the game.
Poor fucking you, go play PS.

The thread WAS constructive until you and Helen came into it and started flinging 3 yr old insults, totally illogical arguments, and repeating the same arguments over and over after I have already proven them worthless time and time again.
No, it was not.
Three year old insults to people like yourself would be considered a compliment, I guess you're not worth the debate time.
The beautiful little PM you sent me will far from silence my voice in this thread, so you're going to have to grow up and deal with it, and find a real, way to counter arguments.
Simply put: You haven't.
Illogical arguments?
Yours, are the one, who is making an illogical argument, Mr. EMD!!!!!111oneoneoneinsertfulln00bnamehere.
To quote logic.... "The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few." this game, is not catered for the likes of you, who just wants an FFA Death match arena.
You claim it's RP, yet, due to the extremely limited interaction with your environment and the community in terms of your character, it cannot be called RP, it's closer to sociopathic.....wait, sociopathic fits your avatar....name......behaviour..... oh, maybe it's not RP, just the tendancies you try hard to supress in reality.
Am I getting far too close to the truth now?

RPK is dead, it will stay dead.
People on Uranus will not allow others to run around RPKing.
You conveniently deleted your char on Uranus so you cannot duel me.
I'm sorry, however your comments about my being "under you" are as invalid as much as they are lies.
Anyone who has faced me, win lose or draw will tell you I'm one of the top lot.
I ain't the best, I don't claim to be, but I'm better than you will ever be.
Far, far better.....

One more time... You nor anyone else have the right to judge anyone elses roleplay. Nothing in the definition of roleplay says that little QD and Helen Agility has to approve your definition of roleplay in order for it to be valid. I really wish someone would ban you from the forums for spamming and trolling.
We have plenty of right.
we have as much right to be here as anyone else, if not more.
Do you think that a person with 5k posts and only one warning(which was a friendly warning because it was over an issue that really did, have me worked up, thx to nid, because I did need it), and no edits, no forum "record", and no bans is really going to get banned for arguing with someone like you?
The bottom of the barrel in the community type player?
No one likes you because you have no (and I mean zero) sense of morality, you care about no one except yourself, all you do is attempt to belittle people to destroy their argument, hense your argument is the one with more holes than your PA.

I was on DEX 90 last time we dueled, on a +20 from IMPs.
My ATL was something like 50 on a -8.
I never wore armor until my CON was capped (Period except a medium fire belt for grims, of course this was before mob uberisation, so that's not particularly spectacular, but that same rule applied to PvP, my only armor was my shelter).

You fired off two bursts of TPC and then when you couldn't hit me much you ran.

Your RPK Days are numbered, this community doesn't want uncharismatic senseless idiots, you might be welcome in a place like saturn but as far as I remember GMs don't even like GMing there because a lot of the server is incapable of acting with a little maturity.

I wonder, if I could refer you to rizzy, or someone else on Saturn, to duel them and see how you match up... oh wait I forgot, according to your PM you think dueling is unfair, you have to get the drop on people and shoot'em in the back for it to be fair.

Krim.
Seek help.

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 05:25

QD I offered to duel you on test server and you never show...
I kill you along with multiple others when you are my level and you claim to be better than me...
You claim to not make illogical arguments and immature insults right before you once again spam the thread with those very things...
quote :(Three year old insults to people like yourself would be considered a compliment, I guess you're not worth the debate time.)
qoute:(, oh, maybe it's not RP, just the tendancies you try hard to supress in reality.)
quote: (seek help)

See this type of immature denial of the truth and mutilation of logic is EXACTLY what is at the HEART of the ANTIPKER community. These people can be dealt with very simply... All that has to be done is to show them that their manipulations and childish demands will get them nowhere and they will quickly grow up and become meaningful members of the community. What was done against PVP in this game was an atrocity, and a devestating blow to all that is good game design... At the whim of people like this...

To the one relevant statement in your post, its not the needs of few vs. many. Unlocking quickbelts is something that needs to be done for the enjoyment of all. The many people who are gone because of lack of gameplay, and the people who are still here and miss it, and the people who never had the chance to know of it. I never even used a TPC before, and I told you Im not getting into in game stuff with you since its against the rules and you seem to have a total lack of ability to face reality... Yes dueling favors the PE over the tank (and other classes) because of the PE's versatility and speed advantage. My point was your love of dueling is most likely because that situation would make you appear to have more skill than you actually do. (much like other players using double powered hybrids before and then claiming to be uber PVPers)

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 05:39

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
QD I offered to duel you on test server and you never show...
Where.

I kill you along with multiple others when you are my level and you claim to be better than me...
Outright lies.

You claim to not make illogical arguments and immature insults right before you once again spam the thread with those very things...
However you're the one throwing a temper tantrum.

quote :(Three year old insults to people like yourself would be considered a compliment, I guess you're not worth the debate time.)
qoute:(, oh, maybe it's not RP, just the tendancies you try hard to supress in reality.)
quote: (seek help)

See this type of immature denial of the truth and mutilation of logic is EXACTLY what is at the HEART of the ANTIPKER community.
And I'm the one in denial? o_O

These people can be dealt with very simply... All that has to be done is to show them that their manipulations and childish demands will get them nowhere and they will quickly grow up and become meaningful members of the community.
Like you are, I suppose?
What, meaningful thing have you done? I see zero evidence of meaningful and representative input given by yourself on these forums ever.
You most certainly never gave any on Uranus.
All you have done here, is made selfish demands, and had temper tantrums when people have disagreed with you.

What was done against PVP in this game was an atrocity, and a devestating blow to all that is good game design...
PvP, is alive and well.
Unfortunatly for you, there is an enormous difference between PvP, and RPK.
Get a clue, talk to Hivemind, he actually RPed a RPKer before he joined uTs.

At the whim of people like this...
One of the most PvP active members of the community, and one of the people who attempts to mediate some form of character, class and weapon balance?
I've even mentioned nerfing one of the weapons I use, while at the same time suggesting balance adjustments that benefit and depreciate other classes and/or weapons to a slight degree.

A person who has tried, and succeeded on occasion(err twice majorly....) in representing the views and wishes of the community to KK, although admittedly one of the ideas which everyone thought of as a good idea at the time was not, that great.
I have again asked KK to adjust their changes slightly to try to find something in the middle, other people have called for the other option as well in regards to that change.

To the one relevant statement in your post, its not the needs of few vs. many. Unlocking quickbelts is something that needs to be done for the enjoyment of all.
Again, untrue.
Just the enjoyment of Tanks and RPKs.

The many people who are gone because of lack of gameplay, and the people who are still here and miss it, and the people who never had the chance to know of it.
Heheh, enjoyment eh?
There's so much difference in getting a hacker, or hacking yourself to grabbing a item on the floor.
I'm sorry you can't die trying to kill the world and make their items drop in the way you want to happen.
It's just, not going to happen.

I never even used a TPC before, and I told you Im not getting into in game stuff with you since its against the rules and you seem to have a total lack of ability to face reality...
Then you should ask the rest of the people you were fighting that day, because they distinctly remember the weapon you were using as well, kiddo.

Yes dueling favors the PE over the tank (and other classes) because of the PE's versatility and speed advantage.
Again, Lies, well.....or lack of skill....

My point was your love of dueling is most likely because that situation would make you appear to have more skill than you actually do. (much like other players using double powered hybrids before and then claiming to be uber PVPers)

.................You honestly believe that.....?
Anyone wanna give him a second oppinion?

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 06:00

Originally posted by QuantumDelta

Like you are, I suppose?
What, meaningful thing have you done? I see zero evidence of meaningful and representative input given by yourself on these forums ever.
You most certainly never gave any on Uranus.
All you have done here, is made selfish demands, and had temper tantrums when people have disagreed with you.

One of the most PvP active members of the community, and one of the people who attempts to mediate some form of character, class and weapon balance?

There's so much difference in getting a hacker, or hacking yourself to grabbing a item on the floor.
I'm sorry you can't die trying to kill the world and make their items drop in the way you want to happen.
It's just, not going to happen.

Qd I have made many meaningful posts on a myriad of different subjects... The fact that I am aparently better than you at everything you seem to want to be good at is probably the source of all your anger and insults and wrecked logic...
As to your unfounded claims I have kept calm through an endless onslought of insults from the likes of you and Helen Agility in the name of constructive reasoning.
Your attempt to mediate character is one of your major flaws, you seem to think its your right to run around and tell people how they should play the game.. and your ideas on such are self-contradictory.

Yes you do many tests and give feedback on them thats true. Although your conclusions from your tests always leave out important considerations and make generalizations. Heck with information on stuff in game I can make mathmatical models and figure out game balance/mechanics and stuff without doing a single test.

If anything, you are good at sucking up to people in charge at the expense of the right ways and answers simply to achieve some control over the situation. (possibly to feed your ego)

The difference with the hacker thing is simply that the possible gains of pking outweigh the risks, and neither are large enough to place any importance on a PVP match. (which was important to give that adrenaline pumped feel to it) Basically you risk a piece of armour that you can sell for 4k, which you cannot get if you arent a hacker as hackers can not be paid enough to follow people around and hack their kills. (people are much more individualistic than KK thought they were) And if you die you risk losing your armour which costs you 20k to buy. And don't go on for hours about how if you don't like it tough simply because your a hacker and like to jackpot on everyone elses kills. If you have a relevant argument make it, but I can smell bias from a mile away and I have dealt with it from 3 hackers on the subject already who admitted in the end they just wanted some usefulness for their trade but knew it was unfair in PVP terms to other classes.

Before most matches had at least 50k riding on it and both sides could claim their reward with no difficulties. The result was adrenaline pumping at the thought of PVP. THAT was fun.

Mattimeo

15-08-03, 06:13

you seem to think its your right to run around and tell people how they should play the game.. and your ideas on such are self-contradictory.

Uhm, isn't that EXACTLY what you've been doing yourself? because it sure looks that way to me.

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 06:19

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
Qd I have made many meaningful posts on a myriad of different subjects... The fact that I am aparently better than you at everything you seem to want to be good at is probably the source of all your anger and insults and wrecked logic...
As I said in an earlier post.
Your attempts to belittle people as part of your argument, undermines, your argument itself.
Get a better approach if you want to come near me.
[quot]
As to your unfounded claims I have kept calm through an endless onslought of insults from the likes of you and Helen Agility in the name of constructive reasoning. [/quote]
Spell her name right at least?
I think I could go quote my PMs and pretty easily justify my temper tantrum comment.
Constructive?
All this thread does, is suit your own selfish wants.

Your attempt to mediate character is one of your major flaws, you seem to think its your right to run around and tell people how they should play the game.. and your ideas on such are self-contradictory.
Untrue, there are certain laws and rules in RP as far as I have seen (and trust me I've looked...myself, the likes who befriended Artricia, Sweet Leaf, Hivemind, and several other notable PKers) unlike them.
Your approaches are nothing more than a token copoff to get away, in a somewhat IC context something you wish to do regardless.
Since all you're here to do, is "have fun", at the expense of others, this thread, is more about making your "fun" easier, and less costly.
You have no conviction.
Therefore, your argument falls on it's face more than your avatar.

Yes you do many tests and give feedback on them thats true. Although your conclusions from your tests always leave out important considerations and make generalizations.
You ever consider that's because I don't want people to have all the answers instantly to their own access?
When people ask me for help, I rarely give them numbers and real answers, I give them guidence, I try to make them smarter, I try to make them think.
I open their minds to possible options, hense, why I am somewhat vague when addressing an issue in public (Which I may or may not PM the original question maker later with more specific answers).

Heck with information on stuff in game I can make mathmatical models and figure out game balance/mechanics and stuff without doing a single test.
These days, I tend to stay away from maths, the last time someone posted a complex mathmatical theorum or explanation of an ingame process on this forum most of the community went "........uhh............wtf.......?"
Therefore I try to stick to what people will understand.

If anything, you are good at sucking up to people in charge at the expense of the right ways and answers simply to achieve some control over the situation. (possibly to feed your ego)
If you are attempting to suggest, I befriend GMs to server my own purposes?
Beyond my experiments and tests with Lupus (in regards to resists, which was, really nothing more than confirmation of what I already knew), I have never benefitted from friendship with a GM, Dev, Mod or Admin, in any way, other than helping third party people.
That accusation is a very serious one, and I hope you feel like backing it up if you're going to stand by it.

The difference with the hacker thing is simply that the possible gains of pking outweigh the risks, and neither are large enough to place any importance on a PVP match. (which was important to give that adrenaline pumped feel to it)
More bull... I agree, to some modicom of a value, it adds to the "excitement" - however you're under the delusion that you bring a service to this game, from this comment.
You, in this one sentence, have simply proved my point.
You don't care about PvP one bit.
You simply want to RPK and reap rewards for it.
Sorry, assholes that kill and steal are locked up in reality, this ain't reality, but you ain't exactly being locked up.

Basically you risk a piece of armour that you can sell for 4k, which you cannot get if you arent a hacker as hackers can not be paid enough to follow people around and hack their kills. (people are much more individualistic than KK thought they were)You said you were in a clan?
Get organised.
My clan does fine when we have to.

And if you die you risk losing your armour which costs you 20k to buy. And don't go on for hours about how if you don't like it tough simply because your a hacker and like to jackpot on everyone elses kills.
Says the tank.
Meanwhile, there are monks running around with up to five rare spells, and several hundred K worth of other spells on their person, PEs with a large (not AS large) amount of item value on their person, and Spies which carry (exclusive or) a) stacks of drones b) at least two rifles c) at least three pistols (inclusive or) d) expensive armor.

If you have a relevant argument make it, but I can smell bias from a mile away and I have dealt with it from 3 hackers on the subject already who admitted in the end they just wanted some usefulness for their trade but knew it was unfair in PVP terms to other classes.
I've made it.
Bias?
Helen would be having a field day with you right now.
You reak of hypocrisy.

Before most matches had at least 50k riding on it and both sides could claim their reward with no difficulties. The result was adrenaline pumping at the thought of PVP. THAT was fun. The result was people stuffing their quickbelt with useless items and packing their weapon if they knew they were gonna lose (sound familiar?).

Oh dear.
What a Pity, nevermind.

Distaria

15-08-03, 11:13

Dude, QD, don't bother anymore. You're right, but Krim is one of those people that will never be convinced regardless of what others say. The people that will keep at it long after their arguments have been torn to shreds.

Krim: Learn to debate. Perhaps you should be the one taking those classes you speak of. You yell at people for flinging insults, and then do it yourself. QD and Helen are way better at this than you are, just forget it. Quickbelts are locked because the majority wanted them that way. PvP is still alive and well the way things are.

Futureman

15-08-03, 13:32

Look,

I haven't read the entire argument here, but i've read enough of these threads to get the idea. On the one had you have the people who love to PK and think that its their right and even the extremes think that the LE is carebear etc. And on the other hand you have the "Carebear" group. Blah blah blah....

But wrt the original post, Kriminal99 is complaining about the rule changes that took place a while back, i don't really know. I haven't played this game for more than a month, but i did play in beta 4. Back then SL didn't work and you couldn't tell what faction people were in, and people had their quickbelts stacked full of junk so they wouldn't lose anything if they died, because the LE really sucked back then. So it appears that KK has made some "Carebear" moves here. The safe slot, the warzones, the hunting zones all appear to be a little carebear. But in a way you have to have it like this. It all has to do with how often people get PKed. If PKing was like it is in real life, eg murder, we would be able to have some serious consequences for death. Just imagine a scenario right quick:

Imagine a server like Neptune with no copbots or safezones, except one more thing. When you die, you lose everything, no hacking required: just like real life.

Now in my opinion, that would be really cool. The only problem with that is that there would have to be less pking, but when it did occur it would have to be serious. You can't complain that they have too many carebear measures, because you have to realize that the completely unrealistic number of murders that occcur in Neocron drives these changes. If people started treating death more realistically then we wouldn't need all of these safe zones, safe slots, and warzones. But everybody wants to be the psycho who kills everyone because it is really exciting to some people.

In my opinion its really just selfish. Some people want to be uber or leet or whatever, so they want to kill everyone, but not only does it ruin it for the "carebears" it also ruins it for the non-carebear people like me who do kill, but treat it as something a little more realistic. If there wasn't such a large group wanting to be the .001% of society that are serial killers, then we could have better death rules. I have my LE out, and i don't complain when i get killed or even when i drop something. I don't think that death rules should be easier, i think they should be harder. But i also realize that the "carebear" rules are driven by the amount of pointless PKing that is going on. But everyone wants to be that .001%

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 15:52

Originally posted by Futureman
Look,

I haven't read the entire argument here, but i've read enough of these threads to get the idea. On the one had you have the people who love to PK and think that its their right and even the extremes think that the LE is carebear etc. And on the other hand you have the "Carebear" group. Blah blah blah....

But wrt the original post, Kriminal99 is complaining about the rule changes that took place a while back, i don't really know. I haven't played this game for more than a month, but i did play in beta 4. Back then SL didn't work and you couldn't tell what faction people were in, and people had their quickbelts stacked full of junk so they wouldn't lose anything if they died, because the LE really sucked back then. So it appears that KK has made some "Carebear" moves here. The safe slot, the warzones, the hunting zones all appear to be a little carebear. But in a way you have to have it like this. It all has to do with how often people get PKed. If PKing was like it is in real life, eg murder, we would be able to have some serious consequences for death. Just imagine a scenario right quick:

Imagine a server like Neptune with no copbots or safezones, except one more thing. When you die, you lose everything, no hacking required: just like real life.

Now in my opinion, that would be really cool. The only problem with that is that there would have to be less pking, but when it did occur it would have to be serious. You can't complain that they have too many carebear measures, because you have to realize that the completely unrealistic number of murders that occcur in Neocron drives these changes. If people started treating death more realistically then we wouldn't need all of these safe zones, safe slots, and warzones. But everybody wants to be the psycho who kills everyone because it is really exciting to some people.

In my opinion its really just selfish. Some people want to be uber or leet or whatever, so they want to kill everyone, but not only does it ruin it for the "carebears" it also ruins it for the non-carebear people like me who do kill, but treat it as something a little more realistic. If there wasn't such a large group wanting to be the .001% of society that are serial killers, then we could have better death rules. I have my LE out, and i don't complain when i get killed or even when i drop something. I don't think that death rules should be easier, i think they should be harder. But i also realize that the "carebear" rules are driven by the amount of pointless PKing that is going on. But everyone wants to be that .001%

Well I disagree with you about several things. First of all the sentiment that the AMOUNT of rpking goes on in Neocron unbalances anything. If you lose a weapon you have 3 recourses. Kill someone else and take theirs (or trade for yours), have a new one built (the "worst" recourse), or buy one from another player. Everytime someone resorts to building a new one the number of that type of weapon contained in the economy increases to one, thereby making it easier to buy. Now I CAN see of a problem with someone who doesn't pk anyone but takes out their LE. These people would only buy or have a new weapon made to replace the old one. But the truth is this type of player really doesn't belong in the game... they should either use the LE or participate in PVP unrestrained... or avoid anarchy zones until they are ready. If you want to argue with that then I would say fine, LET those people have their own server... But don't ruin the game for everyone else. (Although those same people would probably appear on the PVP server a week after its inception and still complain)

The problem with the way it is now is several fold.
1. You get a weapon, you pretty much aren't ever going to lose it. Basically there are no hindarances or challenges in the game, you just progress through all the weapons and then your done. boring... at least from the standpoint that this is supposed to be a video game and not just a VR chatroom.
2. There is nothing signifigant riding on a pk match and it does not have a relevant effect on your in game wealth. Basically PVP has simply become a way to compare your character progression and setup to someone elses. That means the games PVP has basically been reduced (in terms of fun) to the likes of Quake 2 or something... ie it has no meaning.

There are 2 components of that last statement. The first is the safe slot. Slotted weapons are 90% of what players in game consider to be valuable. Lvl 3 implants kind of are, rare implants definitely are, but the rest are just kinda there... no big deal. And implants rarely drop.

Second is the fact that PVP drops aren't readily accessable. KK had the idea that people would team together and each team would have a hacker to allow access to pvp drops. Well first of all people are much more reluctant to hang out in teams than KK thought. Think of how difficult it is to put together a team to go hunting etc. Someone always has to walk the dog, someone else needs a poke first etc. People are more likely to be doing stuff by theirselves, or with whoever JUST happens to be there cause they share the same interests right then. Add to that that its boring to run around hacking other peoples kills if you don't get the loot or some REAL good payment and the result is belts just don't usually get hacked. In fact most hackers have fun running around and looting qbs everywhere for a few days, but then get bored and stop playing that character. Its a little different with the few combat viable hackers, but loot doesn't generally get shared with anyone but them. Which is drastically unfair to other classes. ( But creates people willing to argue against that because they enjoy running around looting all the quickbelts they didn't earn cause noone else could)

@ Distratia.. Oh lemme guess a clan mate or something? Like you even read anything in the thread.. Give it up guys your not going to convince anyone of anything by coming into a thread and insulting everyone who disagrees with you and posting a rediculous amount of times. If you have something relevant to say say it, otherwise leave. And don't forget that more people disagree with you than agree with you... A fact you have attempted to mask using these childish tactics.

Debating ability is the ability to discuss something using logical arguments and never resorting to ridicule arguments or outright insults. If someone (like you guys) are constantly resorting to such methods its a pretty good sign that its because that person doesn't have anything to say in response.

But Ill tell you what. One more chance. QD if dueling doesn't favor certain classes over others, than how many droners have won a duel before? If you admit that dueling favors some classes over others, than considering all the small complex factors how could you possibly determine that PEs arent favored in the dueling scenario without analyzing things using in game physics rules and making a mathmatical model. Id bet that you haven't done that, but I have... and I know the classes aren't balanced in that scenario. If you have 2 of the exact same class and the exact same items and stats THEN Id give you that its a fair duel. But possibly without knowing it you've goaded people in to a situation where you have an advantage to begin with. And then claim that its some sort of sacred way of fighting.

Futureman

15-08-03, 16:22

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99

The problem with the way it is now is several fold.
1. You get a weapon, you pretty much aren't ever going to lose it. Basically there are no hindarances or challenges in the game, you just progress through all the weapons and then your done. boring... at least from the standpoint that this is supposed to be a video game and not just a VR chatroom.
2. There is nothing signifigant riding on a pk match and it does not have a relevant effect on your in game wealth. Basically PVP has simply become a way to compare your character progression and setup to someone elses. That means the games PVP has basically been reduced (in terms of fun) to the likes of Quake 2 or something... ie it has no meaning.

that's exactly what I mean Krim. but its like that because people abuse their ability to pk. Im a 59/59 spy. Sure i have the power to kill plenty of noobs and such but i don't because that's not really fun to me. People sometimes abuse their power to PK. Now with your situation, killing the guy your level, i don't think its a crime. I think its kind of stupid that 40% of the people in this game play a crazed psycho that make up .001% of the real world, but that's just gonna happen. That's what the LE is for.

Don't you see that the two things are related? The amount of pking and the lack of consequences of death. Take a game like Quake. Lots of Pking, but the consequences are small. What you want is big consequences with the same amount of pking i assume? Would you kill less people if the consequences were made higher? They have to do that or the game will suck otherwise. Imagine the current level of ganking with (not using my extreme example of before) no warzones or hunting zones. That means that you can kill noobs all day and have no consequences. So the Sewer cleaners would have a field day. How many noobs want to play a game that's like that. Now maybe if KK made you drop everything in your inventory, people would adjust and kill less. But i really doubt that. It would make this game less attractive to noobs.

but just a question. If you would drop everything that you have, would you PK less or the same or more?

KRIMINAL99

15-08-03, 16:39

Originally posted by Futureman
that's exactly what I mean Krim. but its like that because people abuse their ability to pk. Im a 59/59 spy. Sure i have the power to kill plenty of noobs and such but i don't because that's not really fun to me. People sometimes abuse their power to PK. Now with your situation, killing the guy your level, i don't think its a crime. I think its kind of stupid that 40% of the people in this game play a crazed psycho that make up .001% of the real world, but that's just gonna happen. That's what the LE is for.

Don't you see that the two things are related? The amount of pking and the lack of consequences of death. Take a game like Quake. Lots of Pking, but the consequences are small. What you want is big consequences with the same amount of pking i assume? Would you kill less people if the consequences were made higher? They have to do that or the game will suck otherwise. Imagine the current level of ganking with (not using my extreme example of before) no warzones or hunting zones. That means that you can kill noobs all day and have no consequences. So the Sewer cleaners would have a field day. How many noobs want to play a game that's like that. Now maybe if KK made you drop everything in your inventory, people would adjust and kill less. But i really doubt that. It would make this game less attractive to noobs.

but just a question. If you would drop everything that you have, would you PK less or the same or more?

I WANT the consequences to be higher, but I also want the risk and reward of pking to be balanced. That is you might be able to get 50k worth of loot from killing someone but you could just as well lose 50k if you die. If it was EVERYTHING like in UO, well then PVP would be that much more adrenaline rushing. But that would be too much in this game just because of the way its designed. Losing everything would only marginally be better than having your character deleted every time you died. But having alot riding on PVP is what we are all asking for.

Granted there are some situations where the bet is not fair even under the old rules. First of all being the person to initiate an attack unexpectedly increases your odds of winning by a large amount. But this is countered by 2 things: Once you piss someone off they are after you and are likely to kill you at some point when YOU don't expect it. And also once this is an expected occurence than you will find people being ready for pvp much more often or at least when other people show up on their list. Its like how people buff before going into Pepper park 1. They don't know if anyones there, but they do know thats a common place where people get shot.

The second thing is the level differences. In my opinion the rank system should be changed so people go grey a bit faster than now and then people should be physically unable to attack players grey to them. I'd say that the ability to kill people outside your rank is pretty good in this game, so a range of 10 ranks would be good IMO.

Futureman

15-08-03, 16:50

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
The second thing is the level differences. In my opinion the rank system should be changed so people go grey a bit faster than now and then people should be physically unable to attack players grey to them. I'd say that the ability to kill people outside your rank is pretty good in this game, so a range of 10 ranks would be good IMO.

careful you might get labeled a carebear with that kind of talk :lol:

I think it should be like the mob situation is now. You kill a 27/27 agressor as a noob then you get tons of loot. If you kill him as a lvl 60 runner you get nothing. It should be like that. Greater reward for greater risk. You kill a lvl 3/3 noob you get nothing, but if 10 lvl 20 noobs team up on a lvl 60 tank (and manage to kill him) :lol: they get a CS! Kill someone your level and you risk the same as him.

I understand your risk reward thing, and it does make a little sense to me. you want it to be more dangerous to PK. Whatever.. if that's what you like to do then fine, but there does need to be a way to stop the bullying.

Sleawer

15-08-03, 17:05

That's an awesome idea Futureman, please remark it.

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 17:18

Okay noob, Imma make this brief.

@ Distratia.. Oh lemme guess a clan mate or something? Like you even read anything in the thread.. Give it up guys your not going to convince anyone of anything by coming into a thread and insulting everyone who disagrees with you and posting a rediculous amount of times. If you have something relevant to say say it, otherwise leave. And don't forget that more people disagree with you than agree with you... A fact you have attempted to mask using these childish tactics.

We ain't clan mates, I'm not 100% sure we even play on the same server (as far as I know Distaria is on Saturn or Pluto, I'm on Uranus).
You presume, far too much, you think you know, far too much.
Reality is you know nothing of the sort.

Debating ability is the ability to discuss something using logical arguments and never resorting to ridicule arguments or outright insults.
Which you have done repeatedly? I don't even need to go back and quote everyone on these forums can see it for themselves.
Aye, I've done it, however, some people ARE noobs.

If someone (like you guys) are constantly resorting to such methods its a pretty good sign that its because that person doesn't have anything to say in response.
Hypocrit.

But Ill tell you what. One more chance. QD if dueling doesn't favor certain classes over others,
Compared to tanks?
No, no advantage.
Compared to APUs? (vs pistol pes?) nope, no advantage.
Compared to PPUs? nope, no advantage.
Compared to Rifle PEs? Nope, no advantage.
So do me a favour and SHUT THE HELL UP YOU IDIOT.

than how many droners have won a duel before?
Droners do not duel, drones, I've dueled DRONES, but you don't duel the DRONER, of course I suppose you'd run around until you find the droner and pwnz0r him eh?
Just that comment alone shows your complete lack of consideration.

If you admit that dueling favors some classes over others, than considering all the small complex factors how could you possibly determine that PEs arent favored in the dueling scenario without analyzing things using in game physics rules and making a mathmatical model.
I wanna see it, you spout a lot of bullshit with no facts backing it up.
I have a rather large group of people telling me I'm one of the competitors for top spot, I get repeatedly told "You'd fucking slay people with rifles" or "A tank." and boy oh boy you would not have liked to have seen me as a hybrid.
PEs have favourable defence, over Tanks, however Tank offence and aiming is actually beyond the capabilities of PEs, in a duel, these two are roughly equal, until you consider the tanks that can maintain 100% combat effective lock with their CS, the ones that hit with every burst after their first.
Unlike yourself.

Your view on the lack of balance is actually due to your lack of skill.
Meanwhile, instead of pissing around with maths I examined the performance and combat simulations, instead of looking at numbers I looked at facts.
The game dynamics do not work to the numbers displayed on a site as primitively statistical as ems.ru. Anyone with real experience would be a fool to rely upon stats like that alone.

Id bet that you haven't done that, but I have... and I know the classes aren't balanced in that scenario.
Like I said.
Noob.
I expect someone who never played the game could do what you've done and say certain classes/weapons that are infact underpowered need to be nerfed.

I just hope hivemind comes in here and beats the crap outta you while I'm away.
Because it'd be a shame to have you count a thread as a victory simply because I'm not around, especially when none of your points are scenario proven, regardless of theory, because, kiddo, theories don't always work.

If you have 2 of the exact same class and the exact same items and stats THEN Id give you that its a fair duel.
Statistically the same with the same gear leads to a fight But possibly without knowing it you've goaded people in to a battle that depends on luck or skill, normally the latter being far too much for the former to over throw but occasionally it happens, that's again, statistics.
Yes, this is the "ultimate fair duel" - and I do duel people on this basis on occasion, I don't hide my setup from EVERYONE, four PEs on Uranus have direct access to my setup.
some of it was developed by a competitor(friend) of mine in an enemy faction.
I don't mind fighting those duels, however, I prefer fighting Tanks, where I am at a disadvantage if the tanks skill is equal to my own.
........Simply because it makes me push harder, and my skill climb higher.

There are things your mathmatical models don't incorperate, because either A) You don't know all the factors/facts(this much is obvious) B) You have based your results of your mathmatical equations of the amount of times you've been owned (this is most likely)

But possibly without knowing it you've goaded people in to a situation where you have an advantage to begin with. And then claim that its some sort of sacred way of fighting.
Right.
Blatently.
Your maths is flawed, your logic is flawed (and no I can't be arsed writting out the full post that the double post bugged).

QuantumDelta

15-08-03, 17:18

...Whoa, first double post ever........o_O

Sleawer

15-08-03, 19:05

will wait until QD comes back to say it....

Scikar

15-08-03, 19:28

Krim, I could understand it if you were talking about PKing enemy factions. I would very much like to be able to earn something from raiding somewhere like MB.

But for RPKing there should be extreme consequences, because it is killing other players for the sake of killing other players. Whichever way you put it, RPKing has no place in this game, only enemy faction killing does.

Shakari

15-08-03, 19:51

Originally posted by KRIMINAL99
One more time... You nor anyone else have the right to judge anyone elses roleplay. Nothing in the definition of roleplay says that little QD and Helen Agility has to approve your definition of roleplay in order for it to be valid. I really wish someone would ban you from the forums for spamming and trolling.

hmm perhaps for once you may actually take your own advice .... Pvp is not the only type of gameplay in NC, but it is part and having a way for ppl how don't want to do pvp to aviod it to deter ppl from forcing it upon them is good,

My idea of RP in not ganking ppl without warning or below my lvl if i actualy get involved in PVP, so why should u judge me??? as u say u have no right :)

and as for QD and Helen Agility apporvement nopee ppl don't need it but i welcome the opinions, for thats what they are :)

Distaria

16-08-03, 10:31

Krim: Dude, I hate to be a Grammar ************, but at least try to spell my name right:rolleyes: . Anyway:

1) No we're not clanmates. In fact, we've never met ingame(at least not that I'm aware of, I don't know his alts' names). He's right, he's on Uranus, I'm on Saturn. I rarely go to Uranus(pretty much only if Saturn is down).

2)You presume much. Yes I have read the entire thread.

3) Looking back over, I'm seeing far more people against you than for you.

KRIMINAL99

22-08-03, 16:33

Originally posted by Shakari
hmm perhaps for once you may actually take your own advice .... Pvp is not the only type of gameplay in NC, but it is part and having a way for ppl how don't want to do pvp to aviod it to deter ppl from forcing it upon them is good,

My idea of RP in not ganking ppl without warning or below my lvl if i actualy get involved in PVP, so why should u judge me??? as u say u have no right :)

and as for QD and Helen Agility apporvement nopee ppl don't need it but i welcome the opinions, for thats what they are :)

*sorry been gone for a week*

Oh im not judging people who don't like to pk, if you want to play without an LE but not pk anyone.. Sure go ahead but youll probably get pked by other people. If you want to play with an LE thats fine too. The only people im "judging" is ones who attack other people when they get killed because the pker supposedly broke some imaginary rule.

@ Scikar Rpk isn't even the point of the thread tho... I had an rpk character in the past that was supposed to roll with negative soullight and live in the outzone. I feel like that character should have been allowed to continue due to the way the game was designed and its theme without lame penalties like losing his entire inventory at every death. But the only reason that has even been brought up now is cause of qd... The point of the thread was that antipkers will make up excuses and manipulate any situation to make someone look bad just because they got killed- Weather its claiming their rank is lower than it is and the pkers is higher or saying they were gr impaired when they werent or many other things. Its just about the antipkers insecurities not about reality.

Scikar

22-08-03, 16:34

Don't bump this thread Krim, just let it die.

KRIMINAL99

22-08-03, 16:46

Im not bumping anything, I have been gone for a week and havent been able to respond. Obviously if a person who started a thread can't log on for a week then it will fall back a bit.

Anyways @ QD ... QD first you are the one who first came into this thread and started calling people "friggin idiots" for disagreeing with you... So I think its pretty obvious that the use of immature insults begins and ends with you.

Further more your arguments further show the emotional bias used in your reasoning process. If a droner can't duel someone face to face then logically duels MUST be unbalanced for different classes. You can't just say OH throw the droner somewhere on the map hiding and Ill have to go find him and OH thats a perfectly matched duel again. Any understanding of mathmatics at all would tell you that NO 2 classes could be even close to matched in a duel.

You say that PE's are weaker than tanks in a duel because you "can just tell" from playing the game. Tell me someting... If you drop a bullet and shoot a bullet at the same time which hits the ground first? They both hit at the same time, and the point is things aren't always what they seem in reality. Reasoning that a tank is better than a pe in a duel just cause a CS burst does more damage than a liberator is pretty close minded (Or whatever you call it when you don't see something just because the situation makes you look good at the moment.) Following that logic a melee character wouldn't have a snowballs chance in heck against anyone, yet I and others can own people much higher level than us with melee. Because melee can hit without aiming and doesn't gimp speed it gives a huge advantage over other weapons- The biggest example is heavy using tanks. I have killed more than one PA CS tank with a tl 55 laser blade because he couldnt even hit me. Pistols have the same advantages, just slightly less of them.

PE's have a HUGE advantage over tanks in duels, many characters in the game are specifically designed to take advantage of the element of surprise (ganking in wanker antipker terms) such as stealth droning rifles Heavy Weapons etc. Heavy weapons are the most able to function in both element of surprise and dueling situations, but they are still gimped vs pistols. And PE's can dam boost and shelter on top of that. Add it all up and its obvious your "sacred dueling"is just a way for you to boost your self esteem killing people disadvantaged against you. Which makes you a total hypocrite. (And btw skill is a fairly small factor in this game when both sides have at least some of it, the class choices, setup, and situation make up 95% of what determines who wins a fight)

P.S. Then put your money where your mouth is and roll a Heavy tank then. I won't tell you I told you so when you get owned by an ub3r l33t pistol PE whose tank you killed many times with yours... The fact that I could so easily kill you with my tank just goes to show your total LACK of skill