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Susan Ivanova
14-08-03, 05:38
This is a rough translation of my thread (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71679) from the german forum that got moved into graveport. Since the policy on moving threads to brainport got loosened a bit here I hope this will spark some discussion.

I recently had the chance to play Anarchy Online (http://www.anarchy-online.com/). A few concepts and ideas caught my eye and could be probably ported to Neocron without much effort. This is not meant to be an AO vs. NC thread by any means. I just want to suggest what ideas the developers could shamelessly steal from Anarchy Online. :)


Links in chat
Trying to sell or show somebody an item in AO you just need to drag&drop that item into the chat window. A link with the name of the item is generated in the chat and clicking on the link displays the properties of the item. This would eliminate the cumbersome trade window if you just want to show something to someone.
tuning items
Ordinary or usually worthless items can be improved with some special treatment. Here are some examples (http://www.anarchyarcanum.com/weapons.html) how this is done in Anarchy Online.
map upgrades
The mini-map in Anarchy Online can be upgraded with some useful features. Initially the map just shows the players position as a small dot. By upgrading the map the position marker can be changed into a directional arrow showing the facing of the character on the map. Additional upgrades provide markers for machines, players and mobs.
NPCs wander around
NPCs in Anarchy Online don't stand around like glued to the ground. They wander randomly inside some predefined area. This makes it a bit harder to find them.
faction alignment is not obvious
Only the name and the name of the clan (if clanned) is publicly visible over the characters head. If you want to know more you have to take "a closer look". F6-RP becomes harder but not impossible.
loss of experience on death
Dieing in Anarchy Online means losing all experience points you earned at your characters current level. (An example below will make this much clearer)
team levels
The longer a team exists the higher the teams level is. A higher team level means higher experience and better offensive/defensive values.
items with different quality levels
Unlike in Neocron there are no pre-set levels for certain items. (I'm talking about non-rare items). The quality level (similar to Neocrons tech level) defines an item's damage/requirements. An assault rifle at QL 1 could have very low requirements and therefore do only little damage. With increasing quality levels the requirements and the possible damage increases accordingly. (The AO items database contains only few fixed entries for items. All other quality levels are interpolated from those fixed values)
missions
Accepting missions in Anarchy Online means getting handed out a key to a certain building/entrance. Only the owner of the key can access the mission area. The mission area itself is randomly generated. It usually consists of several rooms with some mobs placed inside them. Inside this mission area you have to fulfill the mission which can be killing a certain person, finding a certain person or item. Team missions are different as there are several levels inside that mission area. The highest level always contains a boss which is just a normal mob but with much more health.
items with additional bonuses
Some weapons/armors/items can have some special properties. An armor can give additional health and a rifle can improve your aiming. There are 2 classes of those items. The first ones are just normal items with random additions. The second ones are special items with predefined additions. (Diablo 2 players will probably remember yellow and golden items)


So how could that work in Neocron?


Assuming that I want to sell my beloved Tsunami assault rifle. I just write "Selling " into the chat window and then just drag&drop my rifle into the chat windows. The name of the rifles appears in the chat underlined. Pressing enter will send that text to the channel. Everyone listening to that channel will now see in his chat window. (Note, I was too lazy to create an translated example so you have to just replace "Verkaufe" with "Selling")
http://camelot.germanistik.fu-berlin.de/~fastjack/neoshots/ao-concepts/chat_link.png
The name of the assault rifle is a link just like in an ordinary web browser. Clicking the name will bring up the details window just like you would have seen it when right clicking on the item and selecting "details" in the menu.
http://camelot.germanistik.fu-berlin.de/~fastjack/neoshots/ao-concepts/link_clicked.png
That way any given number of people can see the details of my weapon without me having to show it to everyone of them in the trade window.
AFAIK Neocron already has an unique identifier for every item in the game (which was probably introduced to prevent duping). This unique identifier could be used to reference a given item
I think the examples on the Anarchy Arcanum (http://www.anarchyarcanum.com/) page show the concept pretty well. The existing recycling system could be used extended to allow this.
The current position marker on the mini-map just shows the current position. Your facing can only be be deduced by looking at the compass.
http://camelot.germanistik.fu-berlin.de/~fastjack/neoshots/ao-concepts/map_locator.png
Unfortunately some people's sense of orientations is comparable to a mole :lol: and on certain background the compass is very hard to read.
A mini-map with a directional arrow could look like this.
http://camelot.germanistik.fu-berlin.de/~fastjack/neoshots/ao-concepts/directional_arrow.png[img]http://camelot.germanistik.fu-berlin.de/~fastjack/neoshots/ao-concepts/directional_arrow1.png[/url]
Additional upgrades could show other players inside your local radius as dots.
Lets take that NPCs in front of the Crahn church in Pepper Park 3 as an example. Instead of standing there like nailed to the ground they could wander around in front of the church. This would make them appear more lively. Or lets take the NPC at Tawkeen village who's handing out those power cloaks. He could wander around at Tawkeen village. This would take quite some predictability out of the game if you find the NPC wandering inside the church.
This has been discussed several times. That's how it could work in Neocron. Above a player's head I only see his name, the name of the clan he belongs to (if clanned) and his rank (only symbols). To find out more about that player I would have to right click on that player (just as I would do to trade him or to add him to my direct/buddy/team). The pop-up menu would have a additional entry that would allow me to see this players combat and skill rank as well as his faction.
This is how dieingin Neocron could mean losing experience.
Lets just assume that 10,000 experience points are needed to read level 10 INT (or any other attribute). To reach level 11 you need 11,000 points of experience. Having achieve 10,563 points of experience my character dies and uses a genrep. After stepping out of the genrep I have 10,000 points of experience again. I lost all points I have achieved at the current level. Anarchy Online additionally offers the players a kind of "insurance". If I walked up to a genrep with my 10,563 points and saved my characters current state I would have come with exactly that 10,563 points out of the genrep. Any excess points would be lost (unless I had gained enough points for the next level). When you look at the description of the genrep you will see that this would quite fit into the game and would appear logical.
Team levels in Neocron could affect the distribution of team xp. The longer a team exists the better characters get to know each other and and profit more from the experience of the others. This would encourage players to keep teams longer alive and PPUs would profit much better from team xp.
Take the Tangent assault rifle as an example. Instead of quality (artifact/perfect/cool/...) we just have a quality level. An ordinary Tangent assault rifle (TL 44) requires DEX 44 and R-C 78 to use. The same assault rifle at TL 33 would just require DEX 33 and R-C 59. Of course the damage would be just 25% lower . That way there wouldn't be just 3 assault rifles but arbitrary numbers at different tech levels.
When accepting missions at the terminal the player would get an address and an apartment code. At the given location the player would find himself in a hallway with doors. Behinds those doors are rooms with mobs. The map would have to be generated randomly to prevent people from running strainght to the boss. The rewards (money, sympathy, soul light) should be significantly higher than the current rewards because such a mission takes much mire effort to finish.
This could be a little difficult in Neocron because Neocron has a fixed database with items. It would be really cool to find a rifle with a "smart-link" or a "motion compensator" improving rifle combat or weapon lore respectively.
I fear that this can't be done in Neocron without major changes to Neocron.


What do you think about those ideas?

ZoneVortex
14-08-03, 05:56
Hey a lot of those sound good. I'm too busy to post which ones specifically at the moment but I'll give some more detailed input later.

Distaria
14-08-03, 10:53
To be honest, can't say I like the XP one. Below, like 50, in a stat it wouldn't be a big deal, but beyond that, when the XP requirement starts heading asymptotal, that would REALLY blow. If you've just got 10 million XP, then get you get an FRE, some ass comes by and kills you, you finally log back into only to wake up dead, all that work gone. I'd frickin' cancel my account right then and there if that happened. If you were gonna do that, make the XP increase more linear; Level 1 is 0 XP, Lvl 2 is 1000, Lvl 3 is 3000,(like D&D I guess), and tweak monster XP, rather than 10k->20k->80k->150k->300k->900k->1mil->3.5mil->6mil. See(I'm just making those numbers up to illustrate)? That would seriously blow.

Deighton
14-08-03, 11:55
Peeps,

come on! Those are very very well thought over and carefully mentioned thoughts, wich can rapidly push the fun of gameplay in NC.

It is a shame, that his thread is not rated best, yet. Much efford is spent in this thread. It should be honoured, and at last be sticky. Otherwise it vanishes in a few between the large amount of crap threads.

FBI
14-08-03, 12:28
5 stars. I like the link in chat window the most, saves time
typing the name of it, right clicking, the trivial stuff.

Ste-X
14-08-03, 12:39
the chat selling one is superb, that would save so much time in trying to buy items

AxeMan
14-08-03, 12:39
i liked all the ideas except the loss of xp one

i played AO over a year ago and that was the one biggest pain i suffered. i was stuck on the same level for a whole week i must have died 30 or 40 times. everytime i thought "ok i gained some points now i'll go and save my position" i'd run straight into a high lvl mob and i'd die again.o_O

ok so that aside yeah i like all the others

LTA
14-08-03, 12:53
heh sounds good...

specially the trade/chat one :p

Deighton
14-08-03, 13:50
I push this thread, well knowing asking for a ban doing this. But this thread definetly needs to be sticky and rated, and YES!, it also needs to be voted by reply, by telling your "Yes" for good options, and "No" for telling your "I definetly need this or that NOT".

Remember, the more peeps reply here, vote and post their opinions and thoughts, the more it is "hot" for KK, showing to them, that this community can develop and think over some needfull things for NC.

Keep in mind to post only facts here. Keep out "Chit Chat". THis does not help. Let's pick up the chance to change something.

Seriously!

Moining, whining and calling names and complaining does not change anything. Let's stick to facts and increase the number of posts here with your statements!

QuantumDelta
14-08-03, 14:16
Heh, Deighton, chill, remember halfish of the english community is american, this forum is going to be quiet atm.

Suan, I do agree with some of these ideas, I like the thoughts of 1-5 and agree with them a great deal... they would add a fair bit to the gameplay I think.

I seriously don't like the thought of 6, though, imagine a Monk leveling INT 99 - 100, gets a few K off 100 and dies to a FRE+Grim Chaser spawning on him.
Kinda harsh infact I think a lot of people would probably quit :p


7. Teams, In neocron, teams cease to exist as soon as you logout, crash, synch out, and this happens a lot, because NC is a much faster moving world than AO, so, either teams would have to be permanent until leave, or team bonus adds up exponentially over a couple of hours.

8. I absolutely detest this one, you know what I'm like, same as hivemind, always playing with my setup to get it as good as possible (well...okay not anymore but it's near enough perfect anyway), this, to me, looks like I would need a new gun after every fight o_O....with NCs current drop rules I'd hate this idea so much....

9. Hell yes :p

10. Maybe, I don't mind this idea too much, but a RoG that adds R-C? ... There should probably be limitations in what the bonuses are..

Deighton
14-08-03, 14:25
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Heh, Deighton, chill, remember halfish of the english community is american, this forum is going to be quiet atm.


Hoi Quantum!

DOH! Sure, sorry I forgot. But as soon the americans jump outta their beds, I want to see more statements here! ;)

*ph33r*
14-08-03, 14:59
*****

UBER IDEAS!!!!!

N0X
14-08-03, 15:03
I like the chat selling idea the most but i cant say i really like the XP lowering and the having to right click on someone to find out their faction - it'd then turn into a contest of who can right click faster, which would be kinda crappy, but whatever.. good post :lol:

QuantumDelta
14-08-03, 15:04
heh @ the idiots with the F6-RP "Red = Dead" Mentality.

*ph33r*
14-08-03, 15:06
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
heh @ the idiots with the F6-RP "Red = Dead" Mentality.

Que?

QuantumDelta
14-08-03, 15:06
I think it's a pretty self contained musing pulse =P

*ph33r*
14-08-03, 15:08
I can't understand the funny man :(

QuantumDelta
14-08-03, 15:10
Meaning:

People who see an enemy faction and just think "OMG RED THING KILL IT KKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL" Are dumb.

Most of the german community share that view afaik, especially since F6-RP is a phrase that ze germans thought up.

*ph33r*
14-08-03, 15:12
Ahh mmk wondered what that F6-RP stuff meant... me are teh st00pid =x

Susan Ivanova
14-08-03, 15:22
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
[...]
I seriously don't like the thought of 6, though, imagine a Monk leveling INT 99 - 100, gets a few K off 100 and dies to a FRE+Grim Chaser spawning on him.
Kinda harsh infact I think a lot of people would probably quit :p

This might be a bit harsh. But I just think that death needs to be taken more seriously. So either that or item drop in war zones :)


7. Teams, In neocron, teams cease to exist as soon as you logout, crash, synch out, and this happens a lot, because NC is a much faster moving world than AO, so, either teams would have to be permanent until leave, or team bonus adds up exponentially over a couple of hours.

People leave teams in Anarchy Online as soon as their link dies. If you rejoin a game quickly after a FRE you have good chances to be still in a team.


8. I absolutely detest this one, you know what I'm like, same as hivemind, always playing with my setup to get it as good as possible (well...okay not anymore but it's near enough perfect anyway), this, to me, looks like I would need a new gun after every fight o_O....with NCs current drop rules I'd hate this idea so much....

I'd exclude rare weapons from this. Their power would have to be higher than their TL suggests. That way they would still be special.


[...]10. Maybe, I don't mind this idea too much, but a RoG that adds R-C? ... There should probably be limitations in what the
bonuses are..
Again I'd exclude rares from this. Just non-rares should have special abilities. Having rares with those extras would probably unbalance a whole lot of things.

]v[ortice
14-08-03, 15:29
Nice one Susie!

Not a bad post for uTs scum (joking :) )

Anywayz.

I thought about the item selling drag and drop thing.

I thought it would be pretty cool for there to be a button to buy that item there also. So if a lot of guys want it... then you can just pick off the list the highest bidder and sell ur item?

Would take loads of hassle out of selling multiple items.

It just occured to me that if every item has a unique ID code, then it should be possible to offer it for sale and for others to bid on that item. It might mean adding another F-Key to the top for your stuff for sale (called market maybe?), but at the same time, this could open up an in-game market for people to browse and bid etc... OMG this sounds like E-Bay. If it still worked while u were offline that would be cool too. It just needs to be like another inventory type window for you to drop ur stuff into.

Lets be honest. The in-game forum isn't the best way to sell stuff is it. If u stand in Plaza for an hour u'll sell ur stock if its any good.

This could be a nice alternative...

Thoughts anyone?

QuantumDelta
14-08-03, 15:53
I don't mind removal of safeslot/belt drop in wz too much :P

Susan Ivanova
14-08-03, 23:56
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
I don't mind removal of safeslot/belt drop in wz too much :P
Safe slot is ok. That most beloved part of your equipment belongs in there. :) It's still sometimes unfair since monks have to carry around several spells which increases the chances of dropping something valueable. Losing experience on death on the other hand would be a nice equalizer for all classes. Although I do already see the monks being a bit at an disadvantage because it's so hard to level INT at higher levels.

IronMonkey
15-08-03, 00:17
all these ideas are lovely except for the xp loss one. Yes i played ao er or somthing liek that.

xkorpio
22-08-03, 15:54
VERY GOOD IDEAS, like them a lot

Check the ideas for missions in my sig. Maybe you like the prison idea too

\\Fényx//
22-08-03, 16:05
ONOZ ! dont go bumping 8 day old threads so you can pimp your own Ideas o_O o_O o_O !

Talios
22-08-03, 16:15
worst thing about ao i hated was the exp system. nothing like a hard days leveling to die and loose ALL that exp before I saved it grrrrrrrrr:mad: The leveling system in NC is the best in any game I have played so far KK leave it as is:)

Judge
22-08-03, 16:26
I like it all except the XP loss at death.

Original monk
22-08-03, 16:35
last thing we wonna do is turn neocron in a AO 2 offcourse :P (altough i didnt played ao, 2 bad) but i like most of the idea's indeed, but the thing that jumped into my mind when i saw all them weapons and mobs etc was : neocron needs WAAY more weapons (&weaponmods) and WAAY more new mobs, and the supermobs in more than 1 quantity (like 3 mc5 caves or so, i mean there are diffrent mc5 caves but put in each one a commander ok ?)
For the rest a very nice thread rated with lots of nice stars :P

Rai Wong
22-08-03, 18:20
the cool ideas from anarchy onlines include a fashion shop with about 700 clothing items! from skirts to suits its wonderful, sunglasses and so on.

The exp thing is fun because if you are dead you are screwed, and the whole team is on pressure especially the doctor..if

unlike neocron...oh our tank died...PPU res him rofl...or i'll be right back just getting my imps back.

Rai Wong
22-08-03, 18:27
IF the exp thing is such a bad idea then why does AO have how many times more player then NC

Whiety Bulger
22-08-03, 18:36
OMG AO suxz0rs some of those ideas are good but trading over the chat chans is stpid u should have to hand it to them during OP wars ppl could stand by stores and remotly feed clan mates ammo and stuff. thats wrong

Shakari
22-08-03, 19:00
Originally posted by *ph33r*
Ahh mmk wondered what that F6-RP stuff meant... me are teh st00pid =x

In AO to bring up a chars stats u have to get real close and press F6 :)

and unlike neo with much high lvl mobs in AO a red mob = u dead hehe most of the time

Kl0wn
22-08-03, 19:36
Look like NC is dead and everyone suggest something from another game ... why don't you play another game then ???

i know for sure i miss the ambience and the location i loved to defend in NC but i wouldnt like to see NC get off the map again with borrowed idea from everyone. Major problem of NC is that, the dev team can't think by themselve they borrow idea from everyone.

{MD}GeistDamnit
22-08-03, 20:44
damn susan you are an efficent person.I am also somebody that picked up AO for a month while I took a break from NC, and I totally agree with everything you said. Neocron pwns AO but when it comes to strong content AO pwns neocron :D


there is so much to do there, but the fuckin battles suck hard, it's so boring I couldent stand it and came back to nc.

Susan Ivanova
22-08-03, 22:26
Originally posted by Kl0wn
Look like NC is dead and everyone suggest something from another game ... why don't you play another game then ???

i know for sure i miss the ambience and the location i loved to defend in NC but i wouldnt like to see NC get off the map again with borrowed idea from everyone. Major problem of NC is that, the dev team can't think by themselve they borrow idea from everyone.
It is always easier to take concepts that already have proven to be working. And why dismiss a good idea just because somebody else had it first?

Kl0wn
23-08-03, 05:53
Originally posted by Susan Ivanova
It is always easier to take concepts that already have proven to be working. And why dismiss a good idea just because somebody else had it first?

why , simply cause what is being build isnt build for what you ask for.

Don't take a civic and put a 350 in , never gonna work or you won't be able to take any curve at 30mph.

Don't try to take fancy idea in a game where they have problem logging each and every hit.

Don't try to take that much change in a system that allow only simple cmd. Yes they work with the "KISS" concept, but that what neocron has best to offer.

In overrall , whats good in a game is good because everything around work with those feature.

VirtualReGen
23-08-03, 06:08
*****
:)

japata
23-08-03, 07:03
Otherwise excellent, but losing my 2M int exp from my monk when I die from a bite of a sewer rat isn't too compelling. :)

Susan Ivanova
23-08-03, 07:19
Originally posted by Kl0wn
why , simply cause what is being build isnt build for what you ask for.

Don't take a civic and put a 350 in , never gonna work or you won't be able to take any curve at 30mph.
Well, then take a look at my initial post again. I noted that some ideas could be implemented with little change because the framework is already there.

Originally posted by Kl0wn
Don't try to take fancy idea in a game where they have problem logging each and every hit.
That's why there are two teams working on Neocron. One is doing the fixing and the other is adding new stuff to the game. My post was definitely aimed at the latter team.

Arcadius
23-08-03, 07:47
I hate the XP idea.

Mantus
23-08-03, 07:52
I like allot of these

#1. This is great.

#2. So using the the Recycle skill 0_o you improve the overall quality of an item! (non rares only). This would be very cool.

#3. Would be nice. But not really necessary.

#4. Not just NPCs but mobs as well! Would make fighting warbots a whole new experience :D

#5. Most of the clans are well known, so not seeing their faction is kinda moot. But it would be nice not to be able to see the player rank. *muahahaha newbie PE in the sewers ill kill him good! What!…where did that RoG come from…ah damn I am dead…*

#6. NO NO and NO. NC is a very violent game. Can you imagine what OP wars will be like with exp loss. There wont be any! People are annoyed enough as it is with death = getting pokes, I don’t think they will like exp loss very much.

#7. Meh, could put this at the back of the list of 1 million things to do.

#8. We kinda have that at the moment. Accept instead of getting a higher quality TAR as we level we get ourselves the next best gun.

#9. This is probably the coolest idea in the list. This needs to be done NOW. Its just too damn cool. KK you listening?!

#10. I like the fact that all weapons are made by players in NC. Instead of camping mobs for that uber drop you go to your trusted constructor. I think that’s allot better. We could always have more weapon mods, but its not a priority.


btw thanks for providing the cool visual graphic for the item linking idea

Susan Ivanova
23-08-03, 08:06
Originally posted by Mantus
#5. Most of the clans are well known, so not seeing their faction is kinda moot. But it would be nice not to be able to see the player rank. *muahahaha newbie PE in the sewers ill kill him good! What!…where did that RoG come from…ah damn I am dead…*
I know that most clans are well known. That's my point. Unless you take a closer look at a person or already know him, you won't know which faction he/she belongs to.


Originally posted by Mantus
#6. NO NO and NO. NC is a very violent game. Can you imagine what OP wars will be like with exp loss. There wont be any! People are annoyed enough as it is with death = getting pokes, I don’t think they will like exp loss very much.

Actually this wouldn't affect OP wars so much. That's why you can save your current experience points at the genrep. Just don't forget doing this before you jump into the action. Yes, I know that people would whine because they forgot to do it. But that's the fun of it :)

Benjie
23-08-03, 09:22
So....

Seller:*--==/|__/--==--\__|\---WTS!! R Ti Fact CS Wit te Nlarged Nlarged STABLEIZED XRAY---/|__/--==--\__|\==--*
Seller:*--==/|__/--==--\__|\---WTS!! R Ti Fact CS Wit te Nlarged Nlarged STABLEIZED XRAY---/|__/--==--\__|\==--*
Seller:*--==/|__/--==--\__|\---WTS!! R Ti Fact CS Wit te Nlarged Nlarged STABLEIZED XRAY---/|__/--==--\__|\==--*
Seller:*--==/|__/--==--\__|\---WTS!! R Ti Fact CS Wit te Nlarged Nlarged STABLEIZED XRAY---/|__/--==--\__|\==--*

....will be replaced with...

Seller: Artifact Xray Enlarged Enlarged Stablized Cursed Soul


....Great!
*****

Anybody know if this is implamentable? I'd like to see it done by tommorow night if you please.

gostly
23-08-03, 13:03
5 stars from me...i tryed out AO: SL beta recently...dont like the game too much...i do like some of the things about it tho...