View Full Version : Random musings(rants) about the Monk
Progenitor
13-08-03, 05:28
Random thoughts going through my head.
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As it is, monks can't cap Damage, ROF, Range and PSI Pool.
A capped monk should be able to cap Damage, ROF and Range on any 100% stat non-rare spell - without a psi combat boost cast on him and still be able to cap PSI Pool.
It should be possible to do that - currently it isn't, unless you have uber 3+ slotted spells. (Which it appears are getting more difficult to get constructed)
With the most-recent changes to Monks, the point sink MST really isn't needed any more.
An example; without the need to spec MST, a capped monk can have natural (assuming that a DS is out of the question for 90% of the monks)
PSI:100 apu/ppu:140 ppw:100 psu:-- - (about 330ish pool) This doesn't really come close to doing anything, especially for the low rares, and he is capped - no more advancement here. He must rely on implants to do the rest.
Adding a PSI Core: PSI:105 apu/ppu:145 ppw:110 psu:+10 - This gets closer to the PSI Pool cap (360ish I think)
Adding an Attack/Defence 3 chip: PSI:105 apu/ppu:160 ppw:110 psu:+25 - This get's you closer to that magic mark, you begin to start capping the high end spells now, with the help of some slots
Adding an Attack/Defence 2 chip : PSI:105 apu/ppu:170 ppw:110 psu:+35 - You cap some of the high end spells now, without need of uber slotage.
Only problem is that you only have 105 PSI - meaning that the rare barrels are out of reach, not to mention the PSI:113 PPU spell, but you have one more empty head socket.
Even the level 2 pa won't help (+4 PSI). So, you put in a PSI Mem Chip3 (nothing but PSI level) or Exp Controler 3 (great positives, but STR and force resist losses hurt) to give you the extra +5 PSI. And, to get the high end PPU spell, you need the Mem Chip3/Exp Cont 3 + at least the level 2 cloak, to reach the PSI 113 requirement.
To use the level 3 PA you need to remove the Att/Def chip 2 and put both the Mem Chip 3/Exp Cont 3 in or drug up!
However, our monk is still short of the PSI Pool cap - and yes the Crahn epic glove will solve that. But currently he can't get his hands on that. It needs to come out - heck all of the non-city faction epics need to come out!
This shows some holes in the Crahn implant line.
There needs to be a eye, backbone (makes most sence) or heart(?) that increases PSI level at a minimum. The level 3 version of the imp needs to add PSI+5. (Probably +1, +3, +5) Perhaps even adds a little to ppw or psu, for non-capped monks. What the minuses would be - I shudder to guess at. It would probably hurt, unless it was just adding to PSI.
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Our INT xp needs to be increased. I don't know by how much, someplace between 1.25 and 1.5 times as much as it is currently. It would be nice to be able to cap INT within a year.
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There are two MoBs that drop PSI spells - the Swamp Mage and Chaos Queen. Both of them drop APU spells - and rather poor ones at that. The quality of those spells needs to be increased to make those spells worth more than just for scavenging for raw materials. One of them needs to drop PPU spells to balance it out - and needs to drop the level 3 non-BP'able ones as well, and of decent quality, to make them better than storebought, with the chance of slots. Give those ppu's some loving!
Chaos Queen Flame Avalance needs to have it's damage increased at least x1.5, to compensate for the fact that it requires clear line of sight to hit it's target. Otherwise, it is a useless "pretty affect". Or drop it's requirements so that it is usable before Fire Beam. As it is, fire beam is constructable and much better than CQFA ever is.
(AFAIK) PSI mods aren't dropped by any mob. I can find all kinds of mods for all other types of weapons in MoB loot, but I have to go out and buy my PSI mods when I need them.
It would be nice if there were more PSI damaged based MoBs out there then the Enlightened * ones. They could drop more of the PSI based loot. The Enlightened * mobs should drop psi-based loot!
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The non-BP'able PSI based items should only be sold at Crahn sellers, not the average Yamaka's PSI shop. Just like heavy belts, PA and other items are only sold at certain places.
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Soul clusters need more power and shorter cast time - you can only have one out at a time anyway, so why limit the cast time?
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Bring back hybrids. :) APU's are the only class that can't self-cast TL3 heal and basic buffs. Maybe if mst is removed, hybrids might be viable again, but not nearly as powerful as before. The APU needs to be able to spec a little ppu for the basic low level ppu-spells without hurting his offense abilities.
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Enough for now. More later.
-p
IronMonkey
13-08-03, 05:31
i agree with all points stated in this thread.
Just don't really think KK will.
ghandisfury
13-08-03, 05:35
Yup agreed.....
Progenitor
13-08-03, 05:39
Thanks - I should also add:
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I am freakin sick of nerf the ppu monk threads. Fight fire with fire.
parashock him, anti-* him and concentrate fire on him. Rinse and repeat until he is doing nothing but eating boosters. Then he is yours.
-p
i would only be for removing mst if and only if the damage of apu spells took atleast a 25% drop... they are way to effective...especially since the monks dont have to aim at all.. just point and click... there should be some kind of a mental harnessing time required to actually hit a target anyways... I VOTE MONKS GET AN AIMING RECTACLE (puts on heavy fire belt and titan armor after many drugs). Op wars are now based on how many monks you have, not how good you are. Also (this is a little ot) the spies better get soemthing good quick because as they sit now there wont be any left and everyone will have to suffer with store bought equipment and no rares.
Frotto--
Promethius
13-08-03, 06:38
Originally posted by Progenitor
As it is, monks can't cap Damage, ROF, Range and PSI Pool.
umm my monk does cap dmg, RoF , range and psi pool....the wonders of monk PA 3...and yes i have a dimmension splitter
tho i hope when u thought of this u took in mind of DS and pure. as in fully psi use in int, anda good setup for your Psi. Also any near capped player has decent spells so they can cap dmg, rof,range.
Also why shoudl u be able to cap everything and have a huge psi pool...cuz of these limitations it increases team play which isn't NEEDED but it helps a bit. The best thing about this game is the other people u play with not jsut the gaem itself but the different experiences u go through with one and another.
I VOTE MONKS GET AN AIMING RECTACLE
Sure, that'll be fair if kk change the following for monks...
> Allow runcasting even at capped runspeeds. After all tanks/pes/spies dont have to stand still to shoot you do they?
> Remove boosters from the game, replace psi boosters with psi ammo. You can fire say 8 charges of holy lightning then get a very short reload as it automatically reloads for you. No booster dragging!
Basically for all the positives monks have they have negatives to equal out their easier aiming system.
IronMonkey
13-08-03, 06:50
if the give monks an aiming reticle they better fix the reload issues. I think. than they better fix the heat seeking uber lock reticle of the tanks and nerf the pe libby reticle.
No offense to any classes above but giving an apu a aiming ret8icle is the stupidest idea ever. considering all the self nerfs an apu has to do to be any good
Great post...but I have some additions/comments
Originally posted by Progenitor
Random thoughts going through my head.
----
As it is, monks can't cap Damage, ROF, Range [b]and PSI Pool.
A capped monk should be able to cap Damage, ROF and Range on any 100% stat non-rare spell - without a psi combat boost cast on him and still be able to cap PSI Pool.
Not true I am capped PSI on my APU and I currently cap all my non rares, AND some of my lower TL rares(HL & FA) without psi combat boost 3...the only truth to that is that you cant cap all non rares and still have a capped psi pool...but with good reason...how long do you think it would take for nerf threads galore if you had a capped energy beam shot at you supported by 416 mana that would just be way too powerful imo...Im quite happy with my skimpy psi pool(just enuf to cast holy antibuff...barely) but the damage I deal is just immense
With the most-recent changes to Monks, the point sink MST really isn't needed any more.
Im gonna have to disagree...altho it would benifit me as a monk greatly..it would totally unbalance the game even more than it already is...leaving a whole stream of problems and nerf threads and possibly lead to bigger problems and setbacks for monks...there are really good PSI setups out there...just gotta find em...and usually it means sacrificing PPW...but manas not everything as long as youre hitting hard you dont have to hit a whole lot..catch what im gettin at here?
.....
Even the level 2 pa won't help (+4 PSI). So, you put in a PSI Mem Chip3 (nothing but PSI level) or Exp Controler 3 (great positives, but STR and force resist losses hurt) to give you the extra +5 PSI. And, to get the high end PPU spell, you need the Mem Chip3/Exp Cont 3 + at least the level 2 cloak, to reach the PSI 113 requirement.
To use the level 3 PA you need to remove the Att/Def chip 2 and put both the Mem Chip 3/Exp Cont 3 in or drug up!
However, our monk is still short of the PSI Pool cap - and yes the Crahn epic glove will solve that. But currently he can't get his hands on that. It needs to come out - heck all of the non-city faction epics need to come out!
This shows some holes in the Crahn implant line.
There needs to be a eye, backbone (makes most sence) or heart(?) that increases PSI level at a minimum. The level 3 version of the imp needs to add PSI+5. (Probably +1, +3, +5) Perhaps even adds a little to ppw or psu, for non-capped monks. What the minuses would be - I shudder to guess at. It would probably hurt, unless it was just adding to PSI.
Totally agreed..there are not enough IMPs that give PSI and theyre only brain imps while every other class gets backbone and heart implants to support dex or strength...altho Im not quite sure how theyll fit that into realistic proportions considering we are only attack with our minds and not with weapons, so Im not sure that an eye or a backbone would be appropriate...but hey again great idea...anything to help get rid of exp psi cont 3 gets an A++++ in my book...I would also like to see possibly a backbone that we can actually use that gives decent transport cause right now my apu can only carry his armor spells and psi boosters and some anti___ drugs anything else and weight is immediately yellow, some support implants would also help out a great deal imo
Our INT xp needs to be increased. I don't know by how much, someplace between 1.25 and 1.5 times as much as it is currently. It would be nice to be able to cap INT within a year.
no doubt this definitely needs to change...out of all classes and all skills monk INT is the hardest to lvl the ratio is just horrible I can get 2 mil psi XP in a good cave run and maybe get 200k in INT ive tried other things like tradeskilling on my PPU such as poking and these dont seem to work any better....altho it does give decent dex XP which is also impossible to lvlmatter of fact my APU has been dex lvl 20 for the last 2 weeks and ive went from 85 PSI to 100 base PSI in that time...and dex maybe got 600 XP...horrible gains on our skills
There are two MoBs that drop PSI spells - the Swamp Mage and Chaos Queen. Both of them drop APU spells - and rather poor ones at that. The quality of those spells needs to be increased to make those spells worth more than just for scavenging for raw materials. One of them needs to drop PPU spells to balance it out - and needs to drop the level 3 non-BP'able ones as well, and of decent quality, to make them better than storebought, with the chance of slots. Give those ppu's some loving!
Chaos Queen Flame Avalance needs to have it's damage increased at least x1.5, to compensate for the fact that it requires clear line of sight to hit it's target. Otherwise, it is a useless "pretty affect". Or drop it's requirements so that it is usable before Fire Beam. As it is, fire beam is constructable and much better than CQFA ever is.
not really a priority but it would be cool if implemented eve with ultima mods gettin stats above 100 would be difficult...and thats if you get a 4 or 5 slotter(never seen)..but overall the chaos fire spell might have slightly better dmg if it were to be capped...the range is WAY better on the fire beam which imo is better than having just a little better dmg
but yea great points overall =D
Originally posted by Promethius
umm my monk does cap dmg, RoF , range and psi pool....the wonders of monk PA 3...and yes i have a dimmension splitter
That's BS. With pa3 and DS I couldn't cap pool AND damage on HL. You're telling me you get 648% AND 416 mana? Yea right, i'll believe it when you show me a pic.
Frotto, I'm disappointed in you. Op wars are decided by how many monks you have soley because of the ppu. The apu is only NEEDED because he's the only one who can debuff PPUS. Think about it. It has nothing to do with recticle. :rolleyes:
ONE of the reasons were are the #1 damage dealers is because of no recticle. What's next, request HL does 4 hit burst? Next thing you know we're missing as much as tanks with CS but without their defense.
Jesus.
And if apus get a recticle I want a damage or defense increase to compensate and like Polarity said a psi ammo that is 20x better than stupid psi boosters.
Originally posted by Arcadius
That's BS. With pa3 and DS I couldn't cap pool AND damage on HL. You're telling me you get 648% AND 416 mana? Yea right, i'll believe it when you show me a pic.
thats because his monk is a PPU
Originally posted by extract
Not true I am capped PSI on my APU and I currently cap all my non rares, AND some of my lower TL rares(HL & FA) without psi combat boost 3...the only truth to that is that you cant cap all non rares and still have a capped psi pool...but with good reason...how long do you think it would take for nerf threads galore if you had a capped energy beam shot at you supported by 416 mana that would just be way too powerful imo...Im quite happy with my skimpy psi pool(just enuf to cast holy antibuff...barely) but the damage I deal is just immense
I had capped energy beam and 383 mana. OMGOMOGGMOOMG. There's nothing overpowering about it. Saying it would be "way too powerful" is beyond silly. The increase mana didn't give me any significant advantage in PvP except against ppus and gave me a great boost in PvM.
People are far too quick to call something is overpowered when it isn't even implemented.
so u are telling me that it isnt fair for the most uber class in the game to have to abide by the rules of everyone else? how about this a capped monk can shoot holy lightening at an average of 80-110 hp damage per cast... meanwhile the average runner has only 350 health. ... the apu can cast hl in less than a second, w/o aiming and basically has no reload time unless he manages to drain his 300+ manapool. and hl only takes about 30 per cast. thats atleast 10 shots which is equal to most rifles, however, the mana pool can go much bigger to say 422 i think the cap is. thats like 15 shots. these 15 shots in under 20 seconds can level any any any non ppu runner. and perhaps most ppus... I dont know any weapon other than a libby that can empty its full clip in under 20seconds. a pain easer sure cant... and cs can probably do it in 20 seconds... basically with their lack of an aiming rectacle and uber high damage... also their outrageous range they are wayyyyy overpowered.
Originally posted by Arcadius
I had capped energy beam and 383 mana. OMGOMOGGMOOMG. There's nothing overpowering about it. Saying it would be "way too powerful" is beyond silly. The increase mana didn't give me any significant advantage in PvP except against ppus and gave me a great boost in PvM.
People are far too quick to call something is overpowered when it isn't even implemented.
well maybe overpowered was not quite the right term...but more of a basis to use for someone else to say that was the case....and request that it be nerfed....what im saying is...as long as you got capped weapons youre not gonna have to shoot them a whole lot...my apu has like 270 pool barely enuf to cast holy antibuff...but i have an enormous amount of APU...so it doesnt bother me to not have a massive pool cause in most cases i dont really need it....but in all fairness I do think it would be a tad wicked to have my rares capped and a capped psi pool...and btw energy beam and rares arent in the same league here having 383 mana and capping energy beam isnt hard to acheive....all Im saying is I think that the current way PSI is setup is fine Im not argueing that in the least
Originally posted by Frotto
so u are telling me that it isnt fair for the most uber class in the game to have to abide by the rules of everyone else? how about this a capped monk can shoot holy lightening at an average of 80-110 hp damage per cast... meanwhile the average runner has only 350 health. ... the apu can cast hl in less than a second, w/o aiming and basically has no reload time unless he manages to drain his 300+ manapool. and hl only takes about 30 per cast. thats atleast 10 shots which is equal to most rifles, however, the mana pool can go much bigger to say 422 i think the cap is. thats like 15 shots. these 15 shots in under 20 seconds can level any any any non ppu runner. and perhaps most ppus... I dont know any weapon other than a libby that can empty its full clip in under 20seconds. a pain easer sure cant... and cs can probably do it in 20 seconds... basically with their lack of an aiming rectacle and uber high damage... also their outrageous range they are wayyyyy overpowered.
Have you ever shot an APU monk o_O
Originally posted by Frotto
so u are telling me that it isnt fair for the most uber class in the game to have to abide by the rules of everyone else? how about this a capped monk can shoot holy lightening at an average of 80-110 hp damage per cast... meanwhile the average runner has only 350 health. ... the apu can cast hl in less than a second, w/o aiming and basically has no reload time unless he manages to drain his 300+ manapool. and hl only takes about 30 per cast. thats atleast 10 shots which is equal to most rifles, however, the mana pool can go much bigger to say 422 i think the cap is. thats like 15 shots. these 15 shots in under 20 seconds can level any any any non ppu runner. and perhaps most ppus... I dont know any weapon other than a libby that can empty its full clip in under 20seconds. a pain easer sure cant... and cs can probably do it in 20 seconds... basically with their lack of an aiming rectacle and uber high damage... also their outrageous range they are wayyyyy overpowered.
well add our uber damage along side our shitty resist and armor setup..and you got youreself one balanced char mister...seeing as at a stand still with any class(cept the spy)pound for pound blow for blow it would take maybe 2-3 bursts out of any rare peircing gun(PE speed gun or lib) before the monk drops...and id say it would take roughly twice that to kill a tank or PE with capped HL especially with random dmg now....just the other day I shot a tank with HL...it did a whopping 11 dmg I was totally impressed with my uberness =P
Originally posted by IronMonkey
if the give monks an aiming reticle they better fix the reload issues. I think. than they better fix the heat seeking uber lock reticle of the tanks and nerf the pe libby reticle.
No offense to any classes above but giving an apu a aiming ret8icle is the stupidest idea ever. considering all the self nerfs an apu has to do to be any good
These weapons dont have uber aiming rectacles.. they jsut get close to you and fire... well with the cs atleast. The problem is the lag in this game doesnt allow u to see that they are right on top of your ass shooting plasma at u. instead they seem 3 yards away and look like they have great aim. The libby is fine because they have to use weapon lore to get their aim to close that fast. its a sacrifice. The monks currently have no sacrifice to make other than they are allergic to pierce and force damage. Look at the spy.. they are alergic to falling out of bed. by far the frailest char in the game.
Frotto-
Originally posted by Frotto
so u are telling me that it isnt fair for the most uber class in the game to have to abide by the rules of everyone else?
APU is the most uber class in the game? And WTF u mean rules of everyone else? Classes are different, that's the point.
Originally posted by Frotto
the apu can cast hl in less than a second, w/o aiming
WITHOUT RECTICLE. Please speak properly thnx.
We don't have recticle, that doens't mean our hand automatically moves the crosshair over the target and never leaves.
Originally posted by Frotto
300+ manapool. .
Ok keep losing credibility.
Originally posted by Frotto
however, the mana pool can go much bigger to say 422 i think the cap is.
416 is the cap. The only way to get close from my experience is to use xp controller 3 and pa3 with a DS. Do you know how easily raped we are by explosive/piercing with pa+xp controller? That's one reason why I stopped using the xp controller and decided to go with the gimp pool.
Originally posted by Frotto
and perhaps most ppus...
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Frotto
basically with their lack of an aiming rectacle and uber high damage... also their outrageous range they are wayyyyy overpowered.
wayyyyyyyyyy overpowered? I've seen a good apu fight a good tank. Sometimes the apu wins sometimes the tank wins. Our damage dealing comes from 2 things. 1.Lack of recticle 2.Just generally doing more damage than CS.
Our DEFENSE is what balances our damage. That's the point. A tank has 2nd best offense, and great defense. We have shit defense and the best offense. Where's the imbalance?
You want us to have recticle? Increase our damage or defense. As a matter of fact, make us do CS damage, have a recticle, and give us 100 con.
AS a matter of fact give us stealth too, no better yet morph all classes into one class with no variety.
Originally posted by extract
all Im saying is I think that the current way PSI is setup is fine Im not argueing that in the least
Ok fair enough, I disagree.
I think our low pool is "decent" for the most part. But the problem is KK intended us to be the #1 damage dealers. In PvP we are, but PvM due to our low mana pool and NOW random damage(stupid idea to make it PvM also) we are NOT.
Secondly, if the anti spells didn't cost such a rediculous amount of mana, I wouldnt' mind.
Why does holy paralysis and ressurection(2 of the most important spells in an op battle) cost sooooooo much less than our anti spells? A spell is balanced by what it does, it's mana, and it's RoF.
I think the RoF already balances the anti spells. They should be like 160 mana, not 268. I mean jesus. The worst part is if you miss.
OMG, you don't know the frustration of trying to holy antibuff a ppu and POOF you miss due to lag, fps, bad luck, etc.... Then your WHOLE pool is down the drain, and now you have to wait a long ass time for it to refill.
Originally posted by Arcadius
AS a matter of fact give us stealth too, no better yet morph all classes into one class with no variety.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Originally posted by Frotto
The monks currently have no sacrifice to make other than they are allergic to pierce and force damage. -
Just like you require weapon lore, we require EVERY SINGLE POINT of psi use. We need like 180+ psi use. And we sacrifice pool.
So pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.
Originally posted by Arcadius
Ok fair enough, I disagree.
I think our low pool is "decent" for the most part. But the problem is KK intended us to be the #1 damage dealers. In PvP we are, but PvM due to our low mana pool and NOW random damage(stupid idea to make it PvM also) we are NOT.
Secondly, if the anti spells didn't cost such a rediculous amount of mana, I wouldnt' mind.
Why does holy paralysis and ressurection(2 of the most important spells in an op battle) cost sooooooo much less than our anti spells? A spell is balanced by what it does, it's mana, and it's RoF.
I think the RoF already balances the anti spells. They should be like 160 mana, not 268. I mean jesus. The worst part is if you miss.
OMG, you don't know the frustration of trying to holy antibuff a ppu and POOF you miss due to lag, fps, bad luck, etc.... Then your WHOLE pool is down the drain, and now you have to wait a long ass time for it to refill.
yea this is true...but same goes for the CS bearing tank who recticle is dead on and still misses 3 out the 4...I totally understand what you mean...gimped pool is kinda lame...but you sometimes gotta take good with the bad...I personally have never "missed" with antibuff cause im usually sniping from a good distance when i do it =D also makes it better cause it catches the poor bastard PPU off gaurd long enuf to put em in a hurtlocker...and just about 2 weeks ago my gimp pool got me killed...was in an intense battle with one APU we both had PPUs killer PPUs at that...and at the time I didnt have antibuff made..so the whole time they had the edge cause they were antibuffing my PPU but i couldnt do his...but thats not why i got killed...I have this stupid habit of holding down the mouse button and just running around insane and i run thru boosters like crazy...well this fight lasted a good 5 minutes easy and i ran thru all my boosters and pool was out his health bar was just as empty as mine and i had about 50HP left when i ran out of mana...had i maybe had that extra 60-100 mana he wouldve been toast...my PPU claims it was his fault that he slipped for a sec....but I take responsiblity for my own mishaps hehe...its all for fun anywho
but yea more mana would be wicked...but I can totally live(or die) without it =P
Originally posted by Frotto
These weapons dont have uber aiming rectacles.. they jsut get close to you and fire... well with the cs atleast. The problem is the lag in this game doesnt allow u to see that they are right on top of your ass shooting plasma at u. instead they seem 3 yards away and look like they have great aim. The libby is fine because they have to use weapon lore to get their aim to close that fast. its a sacrifice. The monks currently have no sacrifice to make other than they are allergic to pierce and force damage. Look at the spy.. they are alergic to falling out of bed. by far the frailest char in the game.
Frotto-
Lag:
Tank - Needs to stop aiming at the person and infront (like a 56k cs player) when they experience lag.
PE - Same deal
Spy - erm, he should still be in bed trying to work up the courage to get out safely apparently :rolleyes:
Monk - fizzle fizzle fizzle fizzle hit fizzle
We are "allergic" to 2 forms of attack, very allergic actually. If we wear a PP resistor we actually have very good all around defence but it somewhat gimps our offence, not too badly but enough to be an annoyance if youve experienced capped HL.
The tank on the other hand has great all around defence, if properly setup, and good offence without gimping either.
I really dont see the problem. My APU can have resists which keep me alive long enough to kill any player as long as i have a edge in one way or another (skill, surprise, weaponry, etc) or i can somewhat gimp my offence and have a more drawn out battle with a chance to escape if things arent going my way.
How is this overpowered?
And indeed as the others have said. We have to aim, but not wait for computer aiming but once weve expelled our pool (i rarely 1v1, normally i play against other clans for have battles against groups of enemies normally with mates) we get screwed on the rof. Sure your weak for 3 seconds while you shove in a clip, we are gimped after 11 shots as we never regain our ROF unless theres a pause in the action. So how is this overpowered? Would you like after firing all your shots to only be able to put a bullet the chamber...not a whole clip?
Just a little off point...
Why does holy paralysis and ressurection(2 of the most important spells in an op battle) cost sooooooo much less than our anti spells?
Yes holy paralysis is uber cheap (ive already said it needs to be tripled in cast cost) But holy resurrection is only 10 cheaper than antishield and ~50 cheaper than Holy Antibuff. It has a poor rof/range/high mana cost and i feel it is balanced.
Antishield/buff spells cost a lot of mana so they cant be spammed on ppus (or other buffed runners). Parashock should be made the same way.
Originally posted by bd*
Would you like after firing all your shots to only be able to put a bullet the chamber...not a whole clip?
kick ass analogy...cause thats exactly what it would be like
Its about as accurate as monks being waaaayyyyyy overpowered :rolleyes:
Or dieing in 2 - 3 bursts of a piercing weapon (even i overcame this and im ****e at resists).
Or how about missing 3/4 of your shots?
Seriously, am i the only one not allowed to exagerate a point once in a while :confused:
Originally posted by Arcadius
Just like you require weapon lore, we require EVERY SINGLE POINT of psi use. We need like 180+ psi use. And we sacrifice pool.
So pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.
Lets not talk about sacrafices. Tanks were doomed because of
specialization. We cannot carry PA and 50x clips of ammo and
medkits without being over weight and slow.
Every tank has 3 points in transport, the rest in HC. Me, i chose
to put 2 of that transport in melee so i could use LaserBlade II
for trivial reasons, like killing those annoying bats in the mountains.
We only have so much INT, it all goes into lore to make a artifact
CS shoot atleast 215/min max. Atleast monks can cap their rate
of fire natrually. Tanks cannot cap AIM or RoF without level3
boosts or a fortress. We could always wear PA2, but that weighs
15lbs, that makes it 30xclips of ammo and 5x medkits, 10x anti
shock fluid, 10x antidote, 3lbs speed gun, 5lbs cursed soul.
No tanks use PA because:
1) Cripples athletics in a very crucial con setup
2) We use heavy weapons which reduced run speed by half anyway
3) We get paralysed, all we need is a -ATL to help our situation.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Antishield/buff spells cost a lot of mana so they cant be spammed on ppus (or other buffed runners). Parashock should be made the same way.
It's still too high. The lame ass RoF and 150 mana cost will still ensure it can't be spammed.
what do you mean? i was agreeing with you :confused:
I never expected anyone in this thread to agree with me since everyone wants their char class to be the desired class. They all want to be on top... thats why 80% of the people play this game. however, ok i'll give u that you do have a shitty resit. Let me reitterate... reading everything that these monks have said since thats what almost everyone plays that have posted in this thread. Sure your resist blow, but what happens when you get buffed by a pure ppu? you become a lethal killing machine dont u. a ppu and apu duo is probably the most feared set in the game... a rifle spy and pistol spy arent lethal to a cockroach. a melee tank and ht tank arent uberly lethal... the ppu/apu would mop the floor wth them. O_o and a rifle pe and pistol pe combo isnt that great either.
How would u accept that ppu (shelter/deflector) spells are only half as effective if cast on another runner? basically if you have a buffed apu monk with a ppu at his side he is pretty much godly unless a crowd of 5-10 tanks with speed gats come flying in to the rescue. and like i said i dont expect u to listen to me or even fully read this for that matter. However, about 5 months ago i was on ur side of the arguement, however, now i think things have gone too far.
Originally posted by FBI
Lets not talk about sacrafices. Tanks were doomed because of
specialization. We cannot carry PA and 50x clips of ammo and
medkits without being over weight and slow.
Ok, I have weight problems too. And it's "easier" on me because I have DS. It's much worse on monks who are forced to use xp controller 3. My point, which it seems you missed, is that EVERY class makes sacrifices. And I dont' like when people make it seem like monks don't.
Originally posted by FBI
We only have so much INT, it all goes into lore to make a artifact
CS shoot atleast 215/min max. Atleast monks can cap their rate
of fire natrually. Tanks cannot cap AIM or RoF without level3
boosts or a fortress.
Damage and rof(and handling I THINK?) is important to you, mana damage and rof is important to us. We cant' cap all 3. I can only cap rof AND damage if I 'm wearing PA. And that makes me even WEAKER vs force.
I'm still nto sure what your point is, I already said eveyr class makes sacrifices.
Originally posted by FBI
No tanks use PA because:
They don't want to and CHOOSE not to wear it.
Originally posted by FBI
1) Cripples athletics in a very crucial con setup
So is force piercing to a monk. an apu is weak vs force/pierce and even moreso with the PA.
Originally posted by FBI
2) We use heavy weapons which reduced run speed by half anyway
All pas have negatives. :p
Originally posted by FBI
3) We get paralysed, all we need is a -ATL to help our situation.
I was under the impression paralysis SETS your speed to a specific amount. When I had low runspeed and when I had uber runspeed I still ran the same speed when paralyzed.
Originally posted by Frotto
I never expected anyone in this thread to agree with me since everyone wants their char class to be the desired class. They all want to be on top... thats why 80% of the people play this game. however, ok i'll give u that you do have a shitty resit. Let me reitterate... reading everything that these monks have said since thats what almost everyone plays that have posted in this thread. Sure your resist blow, but what happens when you get buffed by a pure ppu? you become a lethal killing machine dont u. a ppu and apu duo is probably the most feared set in the game... a rifle spy and pistol spy arent lethal to a cockroach. a melee tank and ht tank arent uberly lethal... the ppu/apu would mop the floor wth them. O_o and a rifle pe and pistol pe combo isnt that great either.
How would u accept that ppu (shelter/deflector) spells are only half as effective if cast on another runner? basically if you have a buffed apu monk with a ppu at his side he is pretty much godly unless a crowd of 5-10 tanks with speed gats come flying in to the rescue. and like i said i dont expect u to listen to me or even fully read this for that matter. However, about 5 months ago i was on ur side of the arguement, however, now i think things have gone too far.
Totally and COMPLETELY irrelevant. EVERY class becomes 3-4x more powerful with a PPU up their ass.
SO now you're comparing ppu/apu to solo tank spy or pe?
:rolleyes:
Did you know droners own me? I'm completely mincemeat against them. OMG NERF.
Stealth using rifle spies give me a run for my money too. OMG NERF.
Originally posted by extract
what do you mean? i was agreeing with you :confused:
Sorry i thought i detected a hint of sarcasm :( My bad :lol: Just what you get for hanging around madonion.com (not futuremark goddamit, madonion :p) with all the fanboys =/ Cant ever tell if someones telling the truth or just reeling you in ;)
Originally posted by Arcadius
Totally and COMPLETELY irrelevant. EVERY class becomes 3-4x more powerful with a PPU up their ass.
SO now you're comparing ppu/apu to solo tank spy or pe?
:rolleyes:
Did you know droners own me? I'm completely mincemeat against them. OMG NERF.
Stealth using rifle spies give me a run for my money too. OMG NERF.
not irrelivant.. no spy no spy is dangerous with 2 ppus against a ppu and any other class. especially a pair of your beloved monks. All i'm saying is that together they can take too much damage and dish out wayyyyy too much death. I wont be replying again because arguing in this thread is like teaching an alstimers patient how to tie his shoes everyday for 5 years.
Originally posted by Frotto
not irrelivant.. no spy no spy is dangerous with 2 ppus against a ppu and any other class. especially a pair of your beloved monks.
Ahh so now you're comparing apu+ppu vs ppu+another class.
So you're involving multiple classes again.
Originally posted by Frotto
I wont be replying again because arguing in this thread is like teaching an alstimers patient how to tie his shoes everyday for 5 years.
Excuses, go ahead and run away.
Originally posted by Arcadius
SO now you're comparing ppu/apu to solo tank spy or pe?
:rolleyes:
Did you know droners own me? I'm completely mincemeat against them. OMG NERF.
Stealth using rifle spies give me a run for my money too. OMG NERF.
yea I got that from his post too...any class with a PPU is a force to be reckoned with...ask the tank I PPU for on the daily
and yea a heavy kami drone destroys my PPU fully buffed BEFORE patch 186/187...BEFORE they nerfed buffs...albiet it doesnt kill me outright..is enuf to put a real good hurtin on me...REAL GOOD
stealthers just suck =P I made a PE just for that purpose but deleted him when i found out only runners cant see you...I wanted to have a LE char that could hunt solo...and i figured with stealth that would help from the average wb spawn right behind me....but as soon as i found out that only works against non mobs...he got deleted =/...anyone want a SF chip =P hehe
Originally posted by bd*
Sorry i thought i detected a hint of sarcasm :( My bad :lol: Just what you get for hanging around madonion.com (not futuremark goddamit, madonion :p) with all the fanboys =/ Cant ever tell if someones telling the truth or just reeling you in ;)
nah...i was sincere...plus we served together on the battle feild more than once =P I just dont openly admit who my chars are on a RL board cause I tend to piss people off in RL...and I dont want it affecting my peaceful gameplay...afterall it is two totally diff worlds =D
It does work on mobs.... but only if they haven't seen you before you went into stealth mode. Thats why dodging the merry warbot spawning behind you doesn't work.
Look up Andy ..... wont the last part of his name cause i dunno if hed want me too or not :p
But hes on Saturn and from my experience hes a very good spy. Ive seen him in battles at CRP often sitting up on the top of the structure sniping off unsuspecting victims playing like a SPY should.
Hes rarely seen, people just die and assume its from the battle going on else where. When he finally does get spotted hes in a position that takes a couple of mins to get to so hes able to stealth and relocate by the time anyones up there to finish him off.
Its true, spy vs apu head to head id bet on the apu every time. But i gotta say if you play a spy correctly they can be deadly.
Originally posted by extract
and yea a heavy kami drone destroys my PPU fully buffed BEFORE patch 186/187...BEFORE they nerfed buffs...albiet it doesnt kill me outright..is enuf to put a real good hurtin on me...REAL GOOD
PN destroys apus :(
And we can't stealth away. lol
Originally posted by extract
stealthers just suck =P I made a PE just for that purpose but deleted him when i found out only runners cant see you...I wanted to have a LE char that could hunt solo...and i figured with stealth that would help from the average wb spawn right behind me....but as soon as i found out that only works against non mobs...he got deleted =/...anyone want a SF chip =P hehe
What I heard was that stealth only works if the mob hasn't seen you yet.
So I guess he can't see you stealth if he doesn't see you. :p
Originally posted by extract
nah...i was sincere...plus we served together on the battle feild more than once =P I just dont openly admit who my chars are on a RL board cause I tend to piss people off in RL...and I dont want it affecting my peaceful gameplay...afterall it is two totally diff worlds =D
Now im intregied as to who you are :p
Originally posted by ronaz
It does work on mobs.... but only if they haven't seen you before you went into stealth mode. Thats why dodging the merry warbot spawning behind you doesn't work.
no shit?? damn that sucks....oh well he was boring anyways....I like specializing classes...that whole jack of all trades thing just wasnt working out for me =/...started a new tank right before my account got expired...already got him all the rare tank imps a 4 slot moonie and a 3 slot CS so in about a week or so hes gonna be fun i reckon....
Originally posted by bd*
Now im intregied as to who you are :p
honestly youd probably recognize the name but couldnt place it...Im usually quite low profile...Ive managed to make up a great deal of friends...im pretty much allied with all factions to the point that when I am in conflict people can never tell who im really helping...and I like to keep it that way...I get much less random attacks that way...Im mostly a PvM guy...PvP is fun but honestly my machine just cant handle it..onboard vidcard in a good battle i choke so bad with my 2-3 FPS it usually zones or syncs me a good distance away =P always happens at crp with those dreaded fire mobs that spawn tons of little cute baby firemobs i like it when i sync under the ground tho lol
Originally posted by Arcadius
Nerf ME i'm overpowered.
you can do it youreself....leads you to youre "i want to go hybrid thread" :lol: :lol: =P
JustIn_Case
13-08-03, 08:42
This has been debated so many times...
YES, Pure capped APU monks does big damage.
YES, Pure capped APU monks has shit for defence.
Why, why, why does all the "OMG look at that damage" winers always seems to forget the drawbacks with APU monks.
OK, Spies has shit for defence to, but thy can stealth, and they can HEAL, woot.
Lets just make one class and one weapon in the game so we can stop this wining. Even better, lets all start as capped chars to.
Promethius
13-08-03, 09:34
FBI jsut to clear one thing up....i cap rof (227) on my CS with HC 1...
Originally posted by Promethius
FBI jsut to clear one thing up....i cap rof (227) on my CS with HC 1...
hahah
owned
game is good as it is now...
but
tanks get 227 on a cs? well... we apu gets 87 rof on a fire apoc and 105 on the rest of the spells, give us 227 rof then we could talk nerfing in other areas:).
what tanks really whine bout is that they need some sort of antishield antideflector gun to take down the ppu's buffs on people. Not that I think they really should have it though.
Originally posted by CarniFlex
what tanks really whine bout is that they need some sort of antishield antideflector gun to take down the ppu's buffs on people. Not that I think they really should have it though.
Forget where I read it? (nema??) but there was talk somewhere of PSI dampening fields being built.
(can't spell :D)
Promethius
13-08-03, 10:09
Originally posted by Archeus
Forget where I read it? (nema??) but there was talk somewhere of PSI dampning fields being built.
wat do you mean by psi dampening fields being built...? Sounds kinda interesting
Sounds kinda lame :wtf:
Can i get a stealth dampening field (way more realistic) and a CS dampening field (ok now im just bitching).
How the hell can you justify a PSI dampening field? The only mages in this game are crahnies, crahnies are all meant to be monkies. Why the £(&" would they negate their own spells _NOT_ by use themselves but for their enemies o_O
Makes no sense...
Promethius
13-08-03, 11:37
maybe it was them evil smarty pants spys.
Originally posted by Promethius
FBI jsut to clear one thing up....i cap rof (227) on my CS with HC 1...
Without PA? idiot, of course you can with PA. But PA isn't viable
for HC tanks anymore with no transport.
Originally posted by Arcadius
hahah
owned
Instead of powerposting all day, play the damn game numnuts.
Promethius
13-08-03, 12:12
Originally posted by FBI
Without PA? idiot, of course you can with PA. But PA isn't viable
for HC tanks anymore with no transport.
Instead of powerposting all day, play the damn game numnuts.
For one thing....chill. take a few breathes and jsut chill. Also the ONLY reason i don't use PA is because of the barnyard hitbox it gives you.
I was jsut commenting how u said tanks can't anturally cap there RoF but inwhich they CAN....with a sacrifice .....and hours at MC5.
P.S. about the posts earlier FBI....i am stoned so take wat i say lightly =P. pfft do you remember that thunderstorm that nite FBI?
Originally posted by Promethius
For one thing....chill. take a few breathes and jsut chill. Also the ONLY reason i don't use PA is because of the barnyard hitbox it gives you.
I was jsut commenting how u said tanks can't anturally cap there RoF but inwhich they CAN....with a sacrifice .....and hours at MC5.
P.S. about the posts earlier FBI....i am stoned so take wat i say lightly =P. pfft do you remember that thunderstorm that nite FBI?
I have every point in hc, marine, moveon,herc. If your capping
RoF with only hc1 and no PA then that means your using a Distance3 or target3 cpu, thats gimpage.
yeah i do remember the storm, damn roars made my windows
shake and rattle. scary stuff especially when you puf-puf-pufing.
also, i was only arguing with you for the sake of arguing. just
dont reply to my posts so i can shut up :lol: :angel:
Promethius
13-08-03, 12:20
Originally posted by FBI
I have every point in hc, marine, moveon,herc. If your capping
RoF with only hc1 and no PA then that means your using a Distance3 or target3 cpu, thats gimpage.
yeah i do remember the storm, damn roars made my windows
shake and rattle. scary stuff especially when you puf-puf-pufing.
also, i was only arguing with you for the sake of arguing. just
dont reply to my posts so i can shut up :lol: :angel:
no. you can only cap it with pa or an hc 2...
Originally posted by Promethius
no. you can only cap it with pa or an hc 2...
didn't i say that.. grrr..
nerf paralysis :angel:
Promethius
13-08-03, 12:23
to be honest it doesn't matter that much anymore considering i don't play....which gets me wonderin why the fuck am i still on NC threads.....bah damn addiction..
I think MST shouldnt be removed.
ruduced, yes, but not removed. maybe by 50%
fix our int gain
get the epic out
and implement my Alternate Biotech Epic Reward
Originally posted by Omnituens
i wanted KK to make the epic reward multiple choice, with mini versions of all the rare chips:
M.O.V.E.O.N CPU - Mini Marine
Inquisitor CPU - Mini Psi Core
Commando CPU - Mini Special Forces
I.Q. CPU - Mini Special Science
but i dont see this happening.
all that needs setting up is a NPC in biotech HQ that will exchange 1 moveon for any of the other chips.
but since KK hates everyone but the tanks, it wont happen.
oh well, i can hope. my spies need a dex boost without gimping their str, and this would allow that.
Ask yourself the following question: Which class can cap their "best" guns?
Can a spy cap a First Love or Silent Hunter?
Can a tank cap a Cursed Soul or Doom Beamer?
Can a PE cap a Ray of God or Pain Easer?
Can they cap them without gimpage?
Now here you go...
Progenitor
13-08-03, 15:19
:angel:
Just a clairification - I never said that the other classes don't have their own bitches about their classes, these were just my thoughts about the monk.
I also said "monks can't cap Damage, ROF, Range and PSI Pool."
I also said "(assuming that a DS is out of the question for 90% of the monks)" - which it is.
For those that have capped stats on the Beam spells - what is the slotage on those spells?
Maybe I am just doing something wrong, but even with 190ish psu, 176(?)apu and 100 ppw I don't cap my 120%damage FA - I think it is like 609%damage.
When monks runcast (or even turent cast for that matter) if you don't have the recitle on the target constantly, you missfire. Depending on lag, and relative skills, you can waste a lot of pool between hits.
-p
ericdraven
13-08-03, 15:35
Originally posted by Progenitor
Maybe I am just doing something wrong, but even with 190ish psu, 176(?)apu and 100 ppw I don't cap my 120%damage FA - I think it is like 609%damage.
You don't do anything wrong.. :p
I got the same skill-setting and my FA is at 608% IIRC, HL at 620%.
It's possible to cap both spells without DS but i prefer having a bigger PSI pool rather than a capped spell.
Originally posted by Progenitor
For those that have capped stats on the Beam spells - what is the slotage on those spells?
Maybe I am just doing something wrong, but even with 190ish psu, 176(?)apu and 100 ppw I don't cap my 120%damage FA - I think it is like 609%damage.
When monks runcast (or even turent cast for that matter) if you don't have the recitle on the target constantly, you missfire. Depending on lag, and relative skills, you can waste a lot of pool between hits.
-p
yea but now youre talking about rares...when in fact you started the thread with the premonition that you would be using and capping non-rares....
ghandisfury
13-08-03, 16:35
Originally posted by Arcadius
It's still too high. The lame ass RoF and 150 mana cost will still ensure it can't be spammed.
If the mana cost got reduced, it would be a bit out of balanced because the APU would still have enough pool to fire multiple shots after an antibuff.
Progenitor
13-08-03, 16:35
Originally posted by extract
yea but now youre talking about rares...when in fact you started the thread with the premonition that you would be using and capping non-rares....
I did, but someone (you in fact) had mentioned that you capped HL and FA without psi combat boost 3. I was just pointing out that with (IMO) good skill levels, I still fall short. But then I haven't sacrificed my pool either.
(Plus it is the only one that I remember the stats of off the top of my head.
My Beams are close in damage, but not in all stats - I would need better slotage to do it, uber slotage, which shouldn't be necessary, not for non-rares)
-p
Originally posted by Progenitor
My Beams are close in damage, but not in all stats - I would need better slotage to do it, uber slotage, which shouldn't be necessary, not for non-rares)
Why not? No, thats a serious question.
Originally posted by Progenitor
I did, but someone (you in fact) had mentioned that you capped HL and FA without psi combat boost 3. I was just pointing out that with (IMO) good skill levels, I still fall short. But then I haven't sacrificed my pool either.
(Plus it is the only one that I remember the stats of off the top of my head.
My Beams are close in damage, but not in all stats - I would need better slotage to do it, uber slotage, which shouldn't be necessary, not for non-rares)
-p
thats because i have over 190 apu (natural +imps) but i do have a severely gimped pool
Aah, it is good that the community has something to whine and anti-whine about. Keeps the useless spam and in-game stuff out of the forums. I wonder about what they'll whine in a year (if NC is still around) maybe spys in their mechs :lol:
Originally posted by FBI
Instead of powerposting all day, play the damn game numnuts.
I do play the game.
Btw flame me again and i'll report your post. thnx.
UNless you were "joking" like you usually say to save your arse.
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