View Full Version : Who thinks ppus should be nerfed
Promethius
13-08-03, 04:31
Who wants PPU's nerfed and why?
He wants to nerf ppus cause his clan couldn't kill 4 nda earlier on we had 2 ppus 1 apu and 1 tank and about 15 of his clan and several turrets couldn't kill us for a long time.
PPUS are fine how they are, anyone who says they need nerfing is saying it because they are mad not because its what the game needs.
Promethius
13-08-03, 04:35
Originally posted by KimmyG
Why would u nerf PPU's?
I personally think PPU's are fine. But alot of people seem to think PPUs or there spells need a big nerf. So i wanna see wat people have to say and why.
Promethius
13-08-03, 04:37
Originally posted by Centuri
He wants to nerf ppus cause his clan couldn't kill 4 nda earlier on we had 2 ppus 1 apu and 1 tank and about 15 of his clan and several turrets couldn't kill us for a long time.
PPUS are fine how they are, anyone who says they need nerfing is saying it because they are mad not because its what the game needs.
umm my clan is on saturn ur on pluto....so wat the hell are u talkin about.
Originally posted by Duder
(Awaits Pitspawn)
http://pitspawn.phpwebhosting.com/Files/smiley.gif
Yes i may be a little over defensive of the class i play but i dont think ppus need anything but a few minor tweaks.
Back on topic, this thread is about the most retarded ive seen to be blessed upon this forum. If your going to make a post about nerfing ppus its often a good idea to state why. Also doesnt asking others why you think ppus should be nerfed defeat the point of creating the thread in the first place? Its like you cant be fucked to think to write the thread. Maybe this is a thread created to vent anger from an earlier event?
Hmmm, imma go make a "Who thinks Promethius should be nerfed?" thread :D
Well the only thing that might need to be touched is holy para but the spell as is doesn't bother me have lived with freeze fora long time and with anti-freeze its not as bad.
TOuch anything else on them they would be shit they got no offence.
Anyway I think this game is starting to near balance and there are a few classes and things that need to be brought up to Par but other than that we need to drop thiws nerfing shit it throws things off.
QuantumDelta
13-08-03, 04:42
Well Centuri just got busted for bullshit o_O
Originally posted by Promethius
umm my clan is on saturn ur on pluto....so wat the hell are u talkin about.
Hmm ok must be mistaken, thou you was a player on pluto who had just recently faught us and that was why you made this post.
Sorry
This thread.....is spam....boo! 8|
And Centuri, you got beaten up by PIMP 3 times at Syncon when everyone from both sides had people on, so there, neener neener !!!! :p
MayhemMike
13-08-03, 04:45
hrm , Prom is a good guy , I myself should say no . Don't nerf ppus or atleast on pluto ^_^ , I'm apu and would die without my ppu ;P but , i can kill anyone any time any place ... with my ppu :P i mean i kill gang all the time. 10 vs 2 :D
Lol that fight at syncon, lets see about 7 NDA and hmm 10 or so Pimp and a few FS and about 10+ turrets.
Originally posted by Centuri
Lol that fight at syncon, lets see about 7 NDA and hmm 10 or so Pimp and a few FS and about 10+ turrets.
....so you got scared of a few FS, and decided to wait till all the ppus but 1 logged? Eh Nice plan, it worked.....
IronMonkey
13-08-03, 04:51
trying to defend syncon and cajin is like trying to stop water from draining through a pasta strainer...
duder i have just found that is the way op wars go. If clan a cant beat clan b they wait till clan b has only 2 members to attack. Or clan a bribes 4 factions to help attack clan B with 40-50 people.
Eh just the way it is. I'm used to it already and its only happend once to me for both examples.
Just the way a continuous mmog goes though.
Promethius
13-08-03, 04:55
ok this si getting off topic.
lately I have noticed a ton of posts about certain aspects of PPUs being nerfed...spells...shelters watever. I jsut figure why don't we have one big discussion. I wanted to see Why people think PPU's should be nerfed and why. IMO PPU's are fine...they keep u alive wat else do u want...
hehe there is always nerf posts
Psychoninja
13-08-03, 05:00
PPUs should be nerfed?
Didn't they just get a nerf this patch?
o_O
They don't need a nerf, they're fine. We don't want to render every freaking class slave to the tank.
I only see 3 problems.....
1. Holy Heal - Heal anything thats low on health back to 100% again under a few seconds.....
2. Holy Paralysis - Blue Glue Spam.
3. Ressurection - would be much better if you had a timer, when the time on the said timer runs out, you cant be ressurected....
IronMonkey
13-08-03, 05:03
personally i hate havign to fight against a group with 2 3 4 5 6 ppus heh, but eh its quite possible if you just fight the op war battle smart and be patient. I dont think that ppu's should be nerfed at all really. I hate havign to fight against one buit love to have one with us.
A recent battle pitted us against a bunch oif clans who had a total of 6 ppus and a massive force. We had 10 guys and 1 ppu. Yet the fight went on for almost 2 hours.....
Fighting smart is always the key. To many people think 'oh i got uber buffs' let me run into that crowd...
it just doesnt work that way lol
No i dont think KK should nerf ppus. In fact i think they should fix their spells dmg% to work better.
A 2 apu combo can make a ppu wet their pants really fast if you know what your doing lol
I don't think the ppu's need nerfed. Only thing i found weird i that I can rezz 4 people while a particle nemisis is constantly firing at me and shooting the guys yet i'm able to out rezz it's killing. It put one guy right back on his ass but i eventually could rezz too fast for it. Dunno, that would be frusterating for the particle droner. Shouldn't have been pking though :D
I think they should nerf ppu self casted spells and maybe increase others. Ppu monks are NOT fine right now. After killing everyone in a op war you just chase around the ppu monk until they get bored. Thats soooo stupid. A 4 v 4 OP fight is impossible because a group of that size cant kill a ppu monk. It kills pvp!! The ppu monks wont admit it... their class seriously hurts this game and plays way to big a role. They should get something else in exchange for being killable... right now I'm not going to another OP fight until they fix this shit. Stealth turrets and ppu chasing is not my idea of fun.
PPU monks are little too hard to kill IMO. A properly specced ppu can take a real beating and still manage to ressurect someone. However I would hate to see them nerfed to the point where they drop just like apu monks with ppu shelters on do now. But a little 10% tweak or so would be a good change.
IronMonkey
13-08-03, 05:15
drake lol, no offense but if your clan is chasing around a ppu after an op war and u cant kill him yall got bad teamwork.
We dropped 5 very well known (capped)skilled ppus in a row the other day.
EDIT: I Should say that they dropped repeatedly each over the 2 hour period of the battle lol
Psychoninja
13-08-03, 05:15
Originally posted by Scikar
PPU monks are little too hard to kill IMO. A properly specced ppu can take a real beating and still manage to ressurect someone. However I would hate to see them nerfed to the point where they drop just like apu monks with ppu shelters on do now. But a little 10% tweak or so would be a good change.
I really don't see anything wrong with them taking a hard beating, if you have a APU you can take them down. I've snuk a few antibuff casts on a few PPU monks before, and they die right infront of the tank if they don't act fast.
have an APU with antibuff or have a PPU with yea. Especialy in an op war get them out in the open.
Originally posted by Psychoninja
I really don't see anything wrong with them taking a hard beating, if you have a APU you can take them down. I've snuk a few antibuff casts on a few PPU monks before, and they die right infront of the tank if they don't act fast.
We did a bit of a test at Tyron, 3 tanks and a ppu versus one ppu. The ppu just wouldn't die, it was impossible. Even when you have an apu, the ppu either parashocks him and runs away or starts recasting his shelter again just before the antibuff comes. In OP wars with lots of stuff happening it's easier to antibuff and take down a ppu but if the ppu is the last one alive he can't be killed if he knows what he's doing. Also in smaller fights, like at PP, crp etc. the same applies, the ppu can't be caught out by an antibuff or anything. Reducing shields by 10% would still allow them to take a beating but it would mean several people pounding on them would actually stop them rezzing somebody.
Originally posted by Scikar
We did a bit of a test at Tyron, 3 tanks and a ppu versus one ppu. The ppu just wouldn't die, it was impossible. Even when you have an apu, the ppu either parashocks him and runs away or starts recasting his shelter again just before the antibuff comes. In OP wars with lots of stuff happening it's easier to antibuff and take down a ppu but if the ppu is the last one alive he can't be killed if he knows what he's doing. Also in smaller fights, like at PP, crp etc. the same applies, the ppu can't be caught out by an antibuff or anything. Reducing shields by 10% would still allow them to take a beating but it would mean several people pounding on them would actually stop them rezzing somebody.
Then who cares let him run off. Antibuff if he recasts u should have ur speed gun with yea he wont be able to get shelter and deflect up fast enough.
IronMonkey
13-08-03, 05:27
scikar well if u think on terms of dmg cap reducing a ppu's shileds 10% would be around a possible ratio of 50-200 more dmg from an apu. Thats the only thing i see wrong with the idea. It's not that i wouldnt love owning a ppu in 5 or 6 HL's is it would just be a tad rediclous.
that is if your talking 1-100% and not 1-548 etc
Psychoninja
13-08-03, 05:30
Originally posted by Scikar
We did a bit of a test at Tyron, 3 tanks and a ppu versus one ppu. The ppu just wouldn't die, it was impossible. Even when you have an apu, the ppu either parashocks him and runs away or starts recasting his shelter again just before the antibuff comes. In OP wars with lots of stuff happening it's easier to antibuff and take down a ppu but if the ppu is the last one alive he can't be killed if he knows what he's doing. Also in smaller fights, like at PP, crp etc. the same applies, the ppu can't be caught out by an antibuff or anything. Reducing shields by 10% would still allow them to take a beating but it would mean several people pounding on them would actually stop them rezzing somebody.
While we're at it why not just make them all go back to Basic Crahn heal and deflector? I've debuffed a ton of monks in PP and gotten them killed, you just have to make sure they don't notice.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, No one can be good at this game anymore, you'll just get hit with a nerf stick.
Promethius
13-08-03, 05:31
Originally posted by Scikar
We did a bit of a test at Tyron, 3 tanks and a ppu versus one ppu. The ppu just wouldn't die, it was impossible. Even when you have an apu, the ppu either parashocks him and runs away or starts recasting his shelter again just before the antibuff comes. In OP wars with lots of stuff happening it's easier to antibuff and take down a ppu but if the ppu is the last one alive he can't be killed if he knows what he's doing. Also in smaller fights, like at PP, crp etc. the same applies, the ppu can't be caught out by an antibuff or anything. Reducing shields by 10% would still allow them to take a beating but it would mean several people pounding on them would actually stop them rezzing somebody.
The ppu is capped or near capped. Also the PPU was skilled. I see if Apus are the masters of killing why can't PPUs almost be invincible if they are 100% consentrated on themselves. Also only pure PPu's can survive a beating liek this (i kno cuz i have one). No imping hacking or watever. just all pure. They are meant to stay alive and not jsut take a beaten but farken almost neva die. Also an apu + 3 tanks and another ppu vs a lone ppu. unless the apu / tanks and ppu suck that ppu is goin down. we've done it plenty of times. Not only is the matter of wat one use's but WHEN. poison teh ppu then as they go to anti dote u antibuff and fuck em. it CAN be done adn quite easily also u can count till sheilds are goin and go off from them.u have a second and a half about before there shetler re applys so poison when they are shetlering and antibuff. trust me 3 tank gatlins on a dmg boosted shocked ppu is tuff business to survive. I kno i can out heal one gatlin easily but 2 or 3 mixed with a dmg boost...
Psychoninja
13-08-03, 05:33
Originally posted by Promethius
I see if Apus are the masters of killing why can't PPUs almost be invincible if they are 100% consentrated on themselves.
Finaly someone gets the idea!
;)
IronMonkey
13-08-03, 05:35
Originally posted by Promethius
The ppu is capped or near capped. Also the PPU was skilled. I see if Apus are the masters of killing why can't PPUs almost be invincible if they are 100% consentrated on themselves. Also only pure PPu's can survive a beating liek this (i kno cuz i have one). No imping hacking or watever. just all pure. They are meant to stay alive and not jsut take a beaten but farken almost neva die. Also an apu + 3 tanks and another ppu vs a lone ppu. unless the apu / tanks and ppu suck that ppu is goin down. we've done it plenty of times. Not only is the matter of wat one use's but WHEN. poison teh ppu then as they go to anti dote u antibuff and fuck em. it CAN be done adn quite easily also u can count till sheilds are goin and go off from them.u have a second and a half about before there shetler re applys so poison when they are shetlering and antibuff. trust me 3 tank gatlins on a dmg boosted shocked ppu is tuff business to survive. I kno i can out heal one gatlin easily but 2 or 3 mixed with a dmg boost...
Exactly. You have to be smart and have good teamwork. Switching dam,age types makes the ppu change his style format etc which allows the secondary apu to debuff and than u can burn/hl em to the ground.
Done it alot with a 2 apu PE team let alone 3 tanks and a apu+ ppu lol
viscious666
13-08-03, 05:36
hm, the thought of nerfing a ppu monk again constitues the idea of shooting yourself in the foot. I raize this thought. Im a ppu monk and if i were nerfed, i wouldnt rezz ANY GOD DAMN ONE OF YOU. We are suppose to be godly, thats why we have absolutly no attack power. Even thoe ive seen harvey birdman kick some apus ass, lol, LOL!!!!!!! well, back to the music, damn you and your liberal thoughts. weee need to be equal, stfu.:mad:
Promethius
13-08-03, 05:51
We all kno PPU's are NOT invincible but they are good at wat they were designed to do. Its like were goin down a list.
1 spys to weak - check
2.Hybrids to strong -check
3.PPU's to strong -in process
4.NPC's to strong
5.Make everyone have LE's in
Once they finish with oen group they look at the next strongest one. Btw i don't see people complaining about our PPU skillz when it comes to healin adn resser ur asses =P
[EDIT: P.S. rate this thread 5 stars]
Nerf Heals:
When someone is being shot at and trys to heal, the heal duration
should be significantly reduced as they are shot or the heal speed
should dramatically fall. (this would make speed guns effective
because they shoot alot of rounds... two - three tanks with
speed guns should be able to wipe a ppu out with this theory)
Un-Nerf Antishock Fluid:
The concentrated antishock fluid should be INSTANT like stamina
boosters. Concentrated antidote should have the current duration
of antishock fluid. What's the point to these things if your dead
before the drug even takes effect?
Nerf Monks:
The problem with ppu monks is basically they're ability to paralysis
their enemy, take cover and holy heal, come back and shock
the enemy.
The problem with ppu monks and apu monks together is, ppu
monk paralyses their enemy, then damage boosts. Apu monk
comes and does the capped HL RoF magic on you or the poison
stacks that reach to the sky.
So with that said, nerfing monks and nerfing Paralysis seem to
be closely related. The spell needs to get trippled mana per cast
or the antishock bottles need to be faster or even better instant
so they would actually be viable in combat.
Un-Nerf Tanks:
Since a ppu and apu can basically take out a whole team, make
it possible for a HC tank and a Melee tank to tag team just as
well. I should be able to freeze a monk with my uber freezer cannon
and my muppet tank meleer should go in with his devils grace and
slice n dice em monks to pieces.
(^ to show how unbalanced pure monks together are, yet other
classes can't team as good..the post was with sarcasm)
<- awaits pitspawn's reply, (runs for the hills)
Promethius
13-08-03, 06:32
Originally posted by FBI
Nerf Heals:
When someone is being shot at and trys to heal, the heal duration
should be significantly reduced as they are shot or the heal speed
should dramatically fall. (this would make speed guns effective
because they shoot alot of rounds... two - three tanks with
speed guns should be able to wipe a ppu out with this theory)
Un-Nerf Antishock Fluid:
The concentrated antishock fluid should be INSTANT like stamina
boosters. Concentrated antidote should have the current duration
of antishock fluid. What's the point to these things if your dead
before the drug even takes effect?
Nerf Monks:
The problem with ppu monks is basically they're ability to paralysis
their enemy, take cover and holy heal, come back and shock
the enemy.
The problem with ppu monks and apu monks together is, ppu
monk paralyses their enemy, then damage boosts. Apu monk
comes and does the capped HL RoF magic on you or the poison
stacks that reach to the sky.
So with that said, nerfing monks and nerfing Paralysis seem to
be closely related. The spell needs to get trippled mana per cast
or the antishock bottles need to be faster or even better instant
so they would actually be viable in combat.
Un-Nerf Tanks:
Since a ppu and apu can basically take out a whole team, make
it possible for a HC tank and a Melee tank to tag team just as
well. I should be able to freeze a monk with my uber freezer cannon
and my muppet tank meleer should go in with his devils grace and
slice n dice em monks to pieces.
(^ to show how unbalanced pure monks together are, yet other
classes can't team as good..the post was with sarcasm)
<- awaits pitspawn's reply, (runs for the hills)
Nerf heals comment,
Heals is NO way need any nerfing...we are meant to heal there has never beena problem from wat i saw about healing...
Un-nerf fluid drugs,
yes but no. They shouldn't be instant but have a duration of which u can't get shocked again. persay 5-10 secs...
Nerf Monks comment,
so because the best healers mixed with the best attackers make a great team...therefor we should nerf em to shit? Also holy paralysis is closely related to monks.....how so? Trippled mana cost...thats terrible i think we should make it so CS only get to shoot one round before reload.
Un-nerf tanks comment,
because oen team is exceptionaly well u want another team as equal to them... Hey i got an diea lets make a PE rifler and a PE pistoler godly. Also we should nerf CSTER's and Researchers...they are to effective at wat they do nerf em to hell.
Honestly...i normaly HATE it when people say others posts are biased towards tanks...but OMG. You jsut shoulda said nerf All monks to hell and make tanks uber. You dislike PPU's cuz they don't die. You hate Apu's cuz they team with PPU's and own.
You say its unbalanced when the strongest types of each fighting class (ppu /apu) because other classes aren't as strong. Well i don't kno wat other games u play but No game is EVER i mean EVER fully balanced. There is always one class or team that is betetr than another you jsut live with it.(implying RPG's....not games like counter strike) No if ands or buts.
Do you really think the suggestions you made would make the game better? and if so were u thinking it would be betetr ....for tanks?
I really dont know why i bother replying to this, i must be stupid. Ok...
Nerf Heals-
All those tanks spending an eternity capping con will be thanking you for this suggestion. As will the people who already find mc5 hard enough.
The heal in this game is balanced, in other mmorpg the clerical heals have a short cast and the heal will instantly recover half/all of someones health. Hell there are even some total instant point/click heals that recover 100% of someones hitpoint pool.
Un-Nerf Antishock Fluid -
Yeah, that would be cool. Only ppus can effectively negate parashock atm.
Nerf Monks -
Tweak parashock so that it has no dmg, tripple cast cost and slightly lower range sure. Reduce personal shelter effect slightly and boost hybrids. Nerfing all monks is stupid.
Un-Nerf Tanks -
Tanks are nerfed? What about pes and omg spies? And btw this quote "Since a ppu and apu can basically take out a whole team" WAS (past tense) true before the target shelter nerf took place. Now an apu is pasted across the floor within 20 seconds of a fight commencing.
Originally posted by Centuri
He wants to nerf ppus cause his clan couldn't kill 4 nda earlier on we had 2 ppus 1 apu and 1 tank and about 15 of his clan and several turrets couldn't kill us for a long time.
PPUS are fine how they are, anyone who says they need nerfing is saying it because they are mad not because its what the game needs.
huh? I thought Promethius was PPU?
Anyhow my personal opinion is that the PPU class should be removed. But since KK won't see the light of day, then at least they can tweak the underpowered aspects(low xp gain, too financial cost for spells) and the overpowered aspects(holy paralysis, being near invincible) of the PPU.
This is just my personal opinion.
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Tanks are nerfed? What about pes and omg spies? And btw this quote "Since a ppu and apu can basically take out a whole team" WAS (past tense) true before the target shelter nerf took place. Now an apu is pasted across the floor within 20 seconds of a fight commencing.
Not really. The past couple days Mayhemmike and I have been pking in TG. Mike is a apu and i'm a ppu, we are about to take down teams of 6 or 7 without a problem and most of the time they'll have apus and ppus. The only way they can stop us is when they bring 10+ people. So it's still possible to have ppu and apu teams take on large groups of people.
Originally posted by Promethius
Nerf heals comment,
Heals is NO way need any nerfing...we are meant to heal there has never beena problem from wat i saw about healing...
Un-nerf fluid drugs,
yes but no. They shouldn't be instant but have a duration of which u can't get shocked again. persay 5-10 secs...
Nerf Monks comment,
so because the best healers mixed with the best attackers make a great team...therefor we should nerf em to shit? Also holy paralysis is closely related to monks.....how so? Trippled mana cost...thats terrible i think we should make it so CS only get to shoot one round before reload.
Un-nerf tanks comment,
because oen team is exceptionaly well u want another team as equal to them... Hey i got an diea lets make a PE rifler and a PE pistoler godly. Also we should nerf CSTER's and Researchers...they are to effective at wat they do nerf em to hell.
Honestly...i normaly HATE it when people say others posts are biased towards tanks...but OMG. You jsut shoulda said nerf All monks to hell and make tanks uber. You dislike PPU's cuz they don't die. You hate Apu's cuz they team with PPU's and own.
You say its unbalanced when the strongest types of each fighting class (ppu /apu) because other classes aren't as strong. Well i don't kno wat other games u play but No game is EVER i mean EVER fully balanced. There is always one class or team that is betetr than another you jsut live with it.(implying RPG's....not games like counter strike) No if ands or buts.
They were more of the obvious nerfs tanks are thinking about,
i'm just the only one who wasn't lazy/has the balls to post them.
Anyway, so this game has turned into a "who ever has the ppu"
wins, and that's cool. My focus is how to improve teaming of
other classes.
Your statement about "best damage dealer and healer" teamed
together should be so uber. Well let me enlighten you mr. Promethius
aka "All American Noober", when they made freezer cannons
and pistols just as effective as holy paralysis, tanks were just
as equal to monks, if you got shocked and TGC'ed your gone.
This is what proved freezing is lame and should be removed
totally.
Now that they split the monk and destroyed the hybrid, they
only forced the hybrid to exist within 2 people, instead of just
one. This encourages team work, awesome. What about other
classes in regards to teamwork? Obviously when it takes 16
people or more to kill 2 ppus and a apu something is unbalanced
with the game mechanics. The numbers just add up, ppu or no
ppu, 3-5 high leveled tanks or mixture of tank and PE's should be
all it takes to kill any single monk.
Maybe this is why NDA owns the most ops, how can you take it
from them when their all monks. They should reform into a crahn
faction for monk only, something Derisor was trying to do before
he quit.
As for melee, when melee was bugged during beta, all a tank
needed was a blade of ceres and it killed even the notorious
monks aka Insidious Wolf in a couple slices. I hope they plan to
boost melee tanks to being the most powerful close combat
damage dealer class. Currently, melee is borked, Force damage
is borked. Paw of Bear is 366 piercing damage per slice yet it
does about 5 dmg to a spy with tl3 deflector.
What about Nova modded cursed souls? KK nerfed them and/or
force is borked still. Because I have a 4 slotted artifact in my cabs
waiting for it to be revived and do the correct damage. Currently,
it does 1 third the damage other mods do, these things need to
get attention, they've been ignored far too long now.
Maybe then and only then will i stop my grudge on your so called
Monk class, the class that made all my friends leave neocron,
the class that forced people into rerolling to be "overpowered".
It's been 10 months now on my tank, on pluto. You don't see me
rerolling, you don't see me loming. I choose this class because it's
the cass I like most. Not the class I abuse like many of you do.
enough, it's a waste of time to continue.
edit:
Originally posted by petek480
Not really. The past couple days Mayhemmike and I have been pking in TG. Mike is a apu and i'm a ppu, we are about to take down teams of 6 or 7 without a problem and most of the time they'll have apus and ppus. The only way they can stop us is when they bring 10+ people. So it's still possible to have ppu and apu teams take on large groups of people.
this game is so damn balanced, balanced when you play a monk?
(not geared towards you pete :))
Q`alooaith
13-08-03, 07:14
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Tanks are nerfed? What about pes and omg spies? And btw this quote "Since a ppu and apu can basically take out a whole team" WAS (past tense) true before the target shelter nerf took place. Now an apu is pasted across the floor within 20 seconds of a fight commencing.
Sadly us APU's are not totaly deadly...
Rember though, AFAIK shelter add's no force or peirce.
So I'm fighting this PPU in NExT HQ, he's not dieing, I'm not either, I'm medikiting outhealing his hold para, and suddenly it his me, he's not deflectoring at all, he's just putting a shelter up and healing.. Five Psi attack 2's latter and a CS weilding tank walks in and pasts my ass accross the floor.. Small fight enuses between next, Protopharma Tangent and TG.. Fun for all...
But to my point, I had the PPU within an inch of his life and he'd cast a heal that only negated half my damage. Point is, PPU's don't need any massive scale nerf, just a small tweak to make them less deadly when attacking..
@petek480:
No thats prolly because you and mike are skilled and i think mikes got a DS which means his force resist will be high. All of the apus i fight along side with get split in two by any force weaponry.
@Parad0x:
Yeah we got a lot of monks, so have a lot of other clans. Most of our main monks have quit/gone on leave recently though (Aahz/Stryder/Anima's Sex Toy/Mjolnir/Miss Cleo) etc. If anything we have more spies than ever before lol (tigershark/wolfwood/daflex/raycor/trip)
@Q`alooaith:
Yes i know i was saying that apus were the best chars to play when teamed with ppu BEFORE the patch. Now they drop damn fast. Oh and from the sound of it you want to be able to SOLO a ppu? You think thats fair considering we have an attack ability equivilant of a TL 15 energy weapon?
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
Rember though, AFAIK shelter add's no force or peirce.
Which is why a Nova CS should do twice as much damage to any
monk, but it's currently and suspiciously bugged. They should
remove Nova mods from the game completely or fix it once and
for all.
Now we all wonder why DoY is so damn delayed, we have a
class with so many problems/nerfs/balance issues. god damn.
edit @ pitspawn
attack of the droners... aka Legion.
Q`alooaith
13-08-03, 07:34
Originally posted by Pitspawn
@Q`alooaith:
Yes i know i was saying that apus were the best chars to play when teamed with ppu BEFORE the patch. Now they drop damn fast. Oh and from the sound of it you want to be able to SOLO a ppu? You think thats fair considering we have an attack ability equivilant of a TL 15 energy weapon?
I'm not saying that you should be able to beat a fucking PPU solo, you didn't read what I said, I was supporting a slight tweak to PPU's rather than a head on nerf, yet you still attack me.
I was fighting a PPU, casting shelter, I almost had him, his heals where negating half my Psi attack 2's damage, but since he was not using deflector the rest was pounding his life away quickly, as it should be. From what your saying, you want PPU's to be able to cast shelter and face no danger from anyone else solo, and frankly that stupid. A PPU dumb enough to forget to use all shields avlible should suffer as much as any other class that forgets to strap fire armor on when fighting doomreapers and toehr firemobs!
I was saying though, that PPU's can be beat solo if they forget a spell, as it should be.. I was fighting a PPU casting only shelter, I was using Psi attack 2, and wish there where a psi attack 3 psi amp..
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
I'm not saying that you should be able to beat a fucking PPU solo, you didn't read what I said, I was supporting a slight tweak to PPU's rather than a head on nerf, yet you still attack me.
I was fighting a PPU, casting shelter, I almost had him, his heals where negating half my Psi attack 2's damage, but since he was not using deflector the rest was pounding his life away quickly, as it should be. From what your saying, you want PPU's to be able to cast shelter and face no danger from anyone else solo, and frankly that stupid. A PPU dumb enough to forget to use all shields avlible should suffer as much as any other class that forgets to strap fire armor on when fighting doomreapers and toehr firemobs!
I was saying though, that PPU's can be beat solo if they forget a spell, as it should be.. I was fighting a PPU casting only shelter, I was using Psi attack 2, and wish there where a psi attack 3 psi amp..
And a tank can die if he forgets ammo. What's your point? The reason you did good damage was because the PPU wasn't protected against your attack.
No. But im a PPU so im a bit biased ... :rolleyes:
I understand where it all comes from tho...after all the nerfing and improving of APU, PPU and even Hybrids (mostly the nerfing) the whole monk class seems a bit *off*, out of phase with the rest of the game, so to speak.
The best would probably be to throw the current PSI monk character templates in the trash and start over from scratch but I can see that being just a bit unlikely... :angel:
I really like/liked 1c3man's (dunno if he's still around) monk revision.. maybe that should be looked into a bit.
Q`alooaith
13-08-03, 07:51
Originally posted by Arcadius
And a tank can die if he forgets ammo. What's your point? The reason you did good damage was because the PPU wasn't protected against your attack.
For fucks sake. Thats what I said the first time, then pit goes off the handle with his TL15 attack shit and I restate so it can be understood more clearly..
The point is, PPU buffs are not too strong, though maybe one of the damage types should be shifted to deflector maybe Xray or fire, I dunno, it'd make both buffs more vital..
I was also snidly stating that any APU worth his salt will Psi attack a PPU to make sure he's go a deflector up, if not your a shoeing to kill quickly.
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
The point is, PPU buffs are not too strong,
:eek:
I'll just say I disagree. :p
L:
Q`alooaith
13-08-03, 07:57
Originally posted by Arcadius
:eek:
I'll just say I disagree. :p
L:
I'll restate, they are not overly too strong, they only need a small ajustment to make them far more ballenced.
Maybe alter the damage deflector/shelter stops. make psi shield worth a bit more, maybe by making it like the shelter/delfector but drain the pool of 100-200 points per cast, somthing like a shelter+delfector with maybe 60 or 30 seconds to it, but a shorter cast time.. so it's more draining.
Promethius
13-08-03, 08:07
Originally posted by FBI
They were more of the obvious nerfs tanks are thinking about,
i'm just the only one who wasn't lazy/has the balls to post them.
Anyway, so this game has turned into a "who ever has the ppu"
wins, and that's cool. My focus is how to improve teaming of
other classes.
Your statement about "best damage dealer and healer" teamed
together should be so uber. Well let me enlighten you mr. Promethius
aka "All American Noober", when they made freezer cannons
and pistols just as effective as holy paralysis, tanks were just
as equal to monks, if you got shocked and TGC'ed your gone.
This is what proved freezing is lame and should be removed
totally.
Now that they split the monk and destroyed the hybrid, they
only forced the hybrid to exist within 2 people, instead of just
one. This encourages team work, awesome. What about other
classes in regards to teamwork? Obviously when it takes 16
people or more to kill 2 ppus and a apu something is unbalanced
with the game mechanics. The numbers just add up, ppu or no
ppu, 3-5 high leveled tanks or mixture of tank and PE's should be
all it takes to kill any single monk.
Maybe this is why NDA owns the most ops, how can you take it
from them when their all monks. They should reform into a crahn
faction for monk only, something Derisor was trying to do before
he quit.
As for melee, when melee was bugged during beta, all a tank
needed was a blade of ceres and it killed even the notorious
monks aka Insidious Wolf in a couple slices. I hope they plan to
boost melee tanks to being the most powerful close combat
damage dealer class. Currently, melee is borked, Force damage
is borked. Paw of Bear is 366 piercing damage per slice yet it
does about 5 dmg to a spy with tl3 deflector.
What about Nova modded cursed souls? KK nerfed them and/or
force is borked still. Because I have a 4 slotted artifact in my cabs
waiting for it to be revived and do the correct damage. Currently,
it does 1 third the damage other mods do, these things need to
get attention, they've been ignored far too long now.
Maybe then and only then will i stop my grudge on your so called
Monk class, the class that made all my friends leave neocron,
the class that forced people into rerolling to be "overpowered".
It's been 10 months now on my tank, on pluto. You don't see me
rerolling, you don't see me loming. I choose this class because it's
the cass I like most. Not the class I abuse like many of you do.
enough, it's a waste of time to continue.
edit:
this game is so damn balanced, balanced when you play a monk?
(not geared towards you pete :))
Well Fyi I have been a tank since beta. Another thing chill wit the insults cuz i don't want to turn this into a flame thread...or atleast this soon =P. I never said the best healer and damaged 'should' be the strongest....i said they ARE because well hmm strongest attack + strongest defense = best rounded team. When freezer cannons and such were as strong as holy paralysis...theres no way tanks and pistol PE's where as effective or less effective than monks...jsut that the monks could be slowed like monks and shock other classes.
The only imbalance you see is that monks (onyl ppus) can shock other effectivly. Which u think is outrageous.
If it takes u 16 people to kill 2 ppus and an apu...well thats a bit sad. Cuz either you have no idea how to kill a PPU or ur chars are to weak. ALso when tehrs 2 ppus and one apu...u team up on the apu and he gets fucked cuz of teh 50% reduced shelter...
Then thers ppus so unless these PPu's are raping u with holy paralysis then i don't see the problem. (if u have a ppu) you jsut shock /dmg boost the ppu and use tactics on them.
Also 3-5 high lvled tanks /pes CAN take out a single PPU. use a tangetn freezer cannon and everyone goes ape shit on teh ppu. PE dmg boost. and eventually the ppu goes down (taken out legs helps).
btw this thread isn't about tanks and there melee borkism. just because someone chioces a monk doens't mean they are abusing anything.
o and heres ur cookie for bein a tank.
OMG all this whinning PPU's greatness is not just a benefit to just themselves but all classes in the game.
Promethius
13-08-03, 08:29
Originally posted by Q`alooaith
I'll restate, they are not overly too strong, they only need a small ajustment to make them far more ballenced.
Maybe alter the damage deflector/shelter stops. make psi shield worth a bit more, maybe by making it like the shelter/delfector but drain the pool of 100-200 points per cast, somthing like a shelter+delfector with maybe 60 or 30 seconds to it, but a shorter cast time.. so it's more draining.
psi sheilds are fucked. one pain easer shot to me (ppu) drained 400 psi pool. Of course it does like very lil dmg but wat does it matter if i CAN"T heal =P
Promethius
13-08-03, 08:33
Originally posted by KimmyG
OMG all this whinning PPU's greatness is not just a benefit to just themselves but all classes in the game.
SO very correct. Doesn't this feel a bit liek the techy drop rate. people screamed OMG teh techies drop so much. once that nerf came BAM teh threads after threads about how to higher it. people are going to complain when PPU heals = tanks heal. Its how KK works. When they nerf something...they are out for blood. They rarely from wat I recall just tweak something. They usually destroy it. (freezer nerfs.....hybrid nerfs...Lom nerf...).
So for all those who want PPU's nerfed...just keep in mind at wat your wishin for.
Promethius, from the way you talk then I severely doubt you've face a truely good ppu. I consider myself pretty good and I will bet I could easily survive what you said killed 5 ppu's. I know there are ppu's much better then me, who have had entire clans chasing them around an op before they finnaly give up and gr out. It's too bad we're on different servers or I could show you. Flip on cath sanctum and a good ppu has near godmode. As Pitt said in another thread it takes 3 or 4 ppu's chasing one ppu to negate the effects of the sanctum.
In relation to Centuri's post. There is no way 2 ppus can stand against 15 attackers and turrets. They should of been the first two runners to be dropped.
After that the rest would of been creamed.
I'm no where near cap yet but I've stood up against 5 runners attacking me who didn't know what they were doing, and I've been dropped quickly by 1 runner who knows what to do.
Promethius
13-08-03, 09:07
Originally posted by Carinth
Promethius, from the way you talk then I severely doubt you've face a truely good ppu. I consider myself pretty good and I will bet I could easily survive what you said killed 5 ppu's. I know there are ppu's much better then me, who have had entire clans chasing them around an op before they finnaly give up and gr out. It's too bad we're on different servers or I could show you. Flip on cath sanctum and a good ppu has near godmode. As Pitt said in another thread it takes 3 or 4 ppu's chasing one ppu to negate the effects of the sanctum.
well for oen thing i neva said i killed 5 ppus ^^. All i have said were some good ways to kill them. Trust me i am a capped ppu...i kno our strengths. And I also think we should stay this strong. I also havea catharsis....=). Well durin a huge battle i ran out (with cath goin of course) stopped and had a quick chat wit a certain someoen. funny cuz they might as well thrown feathers at me. (this was before monk PA also). its nice when ur shock / dmg boost comes off cuz of sanc. but it would take 3-4 ppus usin shock / dmg bosot to hold u in ur place.but even then heals are good.
I also consider myself a decent ppu (especaily considering i am fully capped). Plus i didn't half arse myself by pokin or anything i have pure psi use. But well thats a PPU's job...to stay alive and keep others alive. If they nerf shelters on a PPU its mroe or less hurting the other class's more.
Promethius
13-08-03, 09:11
Originally posted by Archeus
In relation to Centuri's post. There is no way 2 ppus can stand against 15 attackers and turrets. They should of been the first two runners to be dropped.
After that the rest would of been creamed.
I'm no where near cap yet but I've stood up against 5 runners attacking me who didn't know what they were doing, and I've been dropped quickly by 1 runner who knows what to do.
well honestly...turrets against a ppu is sad. Honestly you coudl have about 6 mk3 gatlins beatin me and only abd thing would happen is me bouncin around =P.
But its as a PPU is al depends on teh skill of your attackers. When i was pure apu it was all about forcing the ppu (or hybrids...R.I.P.) to doa certain spell. Force them to anti-dote, then anti buff and such on. Ya jsut got to get a feel of the PPU then ya normaly (with help frmo others) can take em down. Its kinda like taken a Mammath beast down. Got to have a general idea of wat to do then raise hell on tehre ass.
Originally posted by Promethius
Who wants PPU's nerfed and why?
why not delete the class immediatly and make em all APU's?
nah, don't. This is a dumb thread.
NERF the NERFING, when does it stop?
Monk shall be the ruling class of neocron, apu monk as the controllers and ppu as their caretakers.. end of story
oh yeah +1 post...
Promethius
13-08-03, 09:29
Originally posted by Sanctus
why not delete the class immediatly and make em all APU's?
nah, don't. This is a dumb thread.
NERF the NERFING, when does it stop?
its not as dumb as you think. I am jsut curious to see why people want the PPU's nerfed. I kept seeing it in different threads and i decided to se it all in oen thread (as me being a ppu). i jsut wanted to see why alot of people wanted a PPU nerfed.
And you post was pointless. But hey theres one every thread :rolleyes:
Originally posted by CarniFlex
Monk shall be the ruling class of neocron, apu monk as the controllers and ppu as their caretakers.. end of story
oh yeah +1 post...
Until someone nerfs my bucket and mop. o_O
Another thing it is a lot of knowing your enemy as well.
For example, I can only protect myself against certain attacks well.
Poison on it's own is going to keep me distracted if that (good resists, antidote and/or buff). Fire will kill me if I am not buffed, but the new armor handles that. two together is a serious pain in the backside.
likewise with Force. If I have the right buffs/armor on at the right time all gattling based weapons just tickle me.
It is a lot of paper/rock/scissors with PPU's. If one doesn't work change ammo type.
Promethius
13-08-03, 09:48
Originally posted by Archeus
Until someone nerfs my bucket and mop. o_O
Another thing it is a lot of knowing your enemy as well.
For example, I can only protect myself against certain attacks well.
Poison on it's own is going to keep me distracted if that (good resists, antidote and/or buff). Fire will kill me if I am not buffed, but the new armor handles that. two together is a serious pain in the backside.
likewise with Force. If I have the right buffs/armor on at the right time all gattling based weapons just tickle me.
It is a lot of paper/rock/scissors with PPU's. If one doesn't work change ammo type.
well yes and no. The way my CON setup and buffs i use makes me very well rounded. energy is laughable. Fire tickles, poison (+70 resist from belt =)). so much resist force its comin out my arse. gatlins are strong but just one gatlin cannot kill me standing still...but wat ppu stands still ina fight.
Originally posted by Promethius
but wat ppu stands still ina fight.
haha a dead one
Originally posted by Promethius
Well Fyi I have been a tank since beta.
Wonder what happened? :rolleyes:
I've been a tank longer than most people still playing this game,
i was also a tank during the entire beta4. So you being a tank
since beta is not valid enough especially in todays retail world
which has CHANGED dramatically since beta. RUN SPEED nerf,
and stamina nerf....pfft you couldn't possibly know anything.
All you know how to do is cast your paralysis and heal.
Originally posted by Promethius
If it takes u 16 people to kill 2 ppus and an apu...well thats a bit sad. Cuz either you have no idea how to kill a PPU or ur chars are to weak.
So these 16 capped players are doing something wrong,
there's nothing wrong with PPU's...Denial is the first sign of
a problem and to escape a truth.
Originally posted by Promethius
Then thers ppus so unless these PPu's are raping u with holy paralysis then i don't see the problem. (if u have a ppu) you jsut shock /dmg boost the ppu and use tactics on them.
No it never has happened to me, but the point is, the spell needs
to be nerfed. Pitspawn even thought more mana cost and range
would be alright, denial once again.
Originally posted by Promethius
Also 3-5 high lvled tanks /pes CAN take out a single PPU. use a tangetn freezer cannon and everyone goes ape shit on teh ppu. PE dmg boost. and eventually the ppu goes down (taken out legs helps).
Talking out of your ass, that's what anyone would say. LOL
Tangent freezer cannons don't do shit, i rather use parashock
ball psi spell.
Originally posted by Promethius
btw this thread isn't about tanks and there melee borkism. just because someone chioces a monk doens't mean they are abusing anything.
You are obviously in denial.
Originally posted by Promethius
o and heres ur cookie for bein a tank.
Since you seem to know everything about killing PPU's, please
don't say how to kill them or that it's easy because you can't
back your words up, quite frankly your words are bull .
So how about this. Come to the test server, let's make brand
new chars to avoid cheating and let's see how you are able
to take PPU's out, my PPU that is. I'll let you bring up to 4 friends
along with you just so it don't look too pathetic. Then maybe you
can understand what me and others are saying.
But more important, I'd give you a cookie if you can prove otherwise.
Promethius
13-08-03, 10:06
Originally posted by FBI
Wonder why what happened? :rolleyes:
I've been a tank longer than most people still playing this game,
i've also been on pluto for a long time, i dont use alts because i
consider it cheating (and the game isn't worth paying for another
account :))
So you being a tank since beta is not valid enough, you don't know
jack, all you know how to do is cast your paralysis and heal.
So the these 16 capped players are doing something wrong,
there's nothing wrong with PPU's...Denial is the first sign of
the real truth.
No it never has happened to me, but the point is, the spell needs
to be nerfed. Pitspawn even thought more mana cost and range
would be alright, denial once again.
Talking out of your ass, that's what anyone would say. LOL
Tangent freezer cannons don't do shit, i rather use parashock
ball psi spell.
You are obviously in denial.
Since you seem to know everything about killing PPU's, please
don't say how to kill them or that it's easy because you can't
back your words up, quite frankly your words are bull .
So how about this. Come to the test server, let's make brand
new chars to avoid cheating and let's see how you are able
to take PPU's out, my PPU that is. I'll let you bring up to 4 friends
along with you just so it don't look too pathetic. Then maybe you
can understand what me and others are saying.
But more important, I'd give you a cookie if you can prove otherwise.
Hey i don't have to prove anything to you about tanks. Just because you think ur uber leet cuz you never expierenced other class's. For one thing I have been a tank for as long as i can remember. Also i made an alt which of course classifies me as a cheater...cuz the ability to have 4 alts on saturn is actually a bug not a feature, go figure.
Who the fucka re you to say i don't kno jack. Also if 16 'capped' players can't take down 2 ppus your damn sure your doing something wrong. Ask anyone with a half of brain.
So if pitspawn agrees with you on a topic it def means it shoudl be? o ok I'll keep that in mind.
About the freezer cannon comment. i actually used a tl 3 shocker spell against a GM in a 1 v1 duel. Funny as though he noticed the difference at the end fo teh fight when i kileld him(on my tank).
If you don't think 4 players can kill a ppu ur full of shit. its can adn HAS been done. Also depends on teh ppu's skill and lvl. Of course otehr PPUs need alot of help to take down *glances at pitspawn*
Back up my words on killin ppus. Wat are u a moron? Wat it sounds liek to me is u've been a tank so long that u don't give a shit about other class's as long a your tank can take em down and you don't get nerfed. Your biased out the ass.
Honestly if you can't take out a PPU tahts ur fault not the PPU's
P.S. get some skillz
Smack PPUs over the pussy with a two-by-four. Hard.
Promethius
13-08-03, 10:17
Originally posted by Rade
Smack PPUs over the pussy with a two-by-four. Hard.
jesus christ wat the hell are u doin =P. ya damn post count spmamer =P
On pluto it would be, it's one char for a reason. go figure idiot.
But i edited my that post a while ago, you sure take a while
to type bull crap.
Get skills? I'm asking for holy paralysis to get nerfed. Your in
denial dude.
And also, you wont come to the test server because your a
a scared noob and being wrong scares you even more than
anything else.
Q`alooaith
13-08-03, 10:21
Removed... all hell fires, sorry it's early I'm going to bed.. night.. or day...
Promethius
13-08-03, 10:22
Originally posted by FBI
On pluto it would be, it's one char for a reason. go figure idiot.
But i edited my that post a while ago, you sure take a while
to type bull crap.
Get skills? I'm asking for holy paralysis to get nerfed. Your in
denial dude.
And also, you wont come to the test server because your a
a scared noob and being wrong scares you even more than
anything else.
OR i have 56k and never took the time to get test server. That might be why i havn't come. askin for hoyl paralysis nerfed. You so wtf did u mean by saying 'nerf teh monks' and nerf heals. I mean unless a holy paralysis has monks inside it and it heals then wtf are u mumblin about. o wait you've been a tank for SOOOOOOO long so you kno ever aspect of the game front and backwards. adn enough with the flames there pyro. Denial about wat. my opinions of why i think PPus are fine. actually i think you biased.
The nerf heals and monks post wasn't meant to be taken
seriously. Just the paralysis aspects :o
Basically it's what all tanks would want, I never said KK PLEASE
NERF HEALS, MONKS, MAKE ME STRONGERER!!#oneon1two2two"
As for being biased, hardly. I wish KK would just leave the class
alone and nerf their weaponry. Holy paralysis is connected to
every nerf thread, with good reason.
I have hashed and rehashed this issue in so many threads that I cant be bothered anymore. I just want to add my support to the nerf-ppu side once again. And actually I think you should be trying to understand what para is actually saying instead of just attacking points he never really made. He started with a joke about tank teams and I dont think the fist-full of flame that started to come afterwards is justified.
Promethius
13-08-03, 10:32
Originally posted by FBI
The nerf heals and monks post wasn't meant to be taken
seriously. Just the paralysis aspects :o
Basically it's what all tanks would want, I never said KK PLEASE
NERF HEALS, MONKS, MAKE ME STRONGERER!!#oneon1two2two"
As for being biased, hardly. I wish KK would just leave the class
alone and nerf their weaponry. Holy paralysis is connected to
every nerf thread, with good reason.
FBI want to kno something funny. if they ever nerfed the holy paralysis tanks are next in line for a nerf....a tanks runspeed has always been in question and with nothing else maskin it get ready this bat swings both ways
Originally posted by Promethius
FBI want to kno something funny. if they ever nerfed the holy paralysis tanks are next in line for a nerf....a tanks runspeed has always been in question and with nothing else maskin it get ready this bat swings both ways
forget it, i'm ending my subscription to this thread. it's a waste of
time to argue with someone who is in denial. Btw, you can't
nerf a tanks run speed any more than it is already, i hope for your
sake your being sarcastic because if your serious, all i can do is
laugh ;)
Originally posted by Rade
I have hashed and rehashed this issue in so many threads that I cant be bothered anymore. I just want to add my support to the nerf-ppu side once again. And actually I think you should be trying to understand what para is actually saying instead of just attacking points he never really made. He started with a joke about tank teams and I dont think the fist-full of flame that started to come afterwards is justified.
Atleast someone agrees, where as Promethius is still over there
trying to say PPU's are balanced. he can't even admit something
is wrong, cmon now. I also don't see anyone agreeing with him o_O
Original monk
13-08-03, 10:38
BOOST THE PPU, BOOST THE HOLY HEAL MAKE ALL FREQUENCY'S FASTER, NERF THE NERFS
Promethius
13-08-03, 10:43
FBI here u musta misse dit the first time here jsut for u FBI (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71795)
look when your talking about ppu and their uberness.... remember not to think that all ppus arent like pitspawn.... shes the single most feard player on pluto...
Other ppus aint that good by a long shot. I myself have a very hard time vs 2 apus.
PPUs dont need nerfed, granted they are outstanding if played and skilled properly, the time it takes to level a PURE PPU with no help more than balances things out, and no i dont feel that they should be nerfed, they are pretty much the way they should be (though a PPU using a Tan AR (i thnk it was) was a little unnerving) they are pretty darn tough, but cant kill much at all.
Tanks dont need nerfed either, we perhaps need a new class for everyone to moan and whine about, monks are about as balanced as they are ever gonna get, (AS A TANK PLAYER) i used to think that the hybrids were amazing but i soon realised that they were just as hurtable as anyone else, now after the NERF PPUs are tough and APUs are not, tanks run speeds are fuxored, if we go for uber resists then we suffer on speed a little (well i do) then the PA gives a further - on movement, so no.........no nerf tankeys.
My list,
INT gain for monkehs raised a bit (ok a lot).
Lexxuk nerfed completely (wOOt).
Remove the Damned hovercars in plaza 3 ffs theyre stuck in the wall rofl.
STOP MY INNABILITY TO LOGIN AS MY CHARS!!!!!1111111oneoneonen lol
Well i got more, but im not hijacking the thread, just my opinion, so dont nuke me
:p
Greets,
Oath.
@deac:
Erm, since when? I have a capped out char with 5 slotted spells, apart from that im about par with everyone else, some others have greater skill. I will never be as good as i want to be because im stuck with a machine that gives 20 fps during op battles. I believe that ppus maybe are too strong, but i do not want to see a sledge hammer effect on ppus. What i'd like to see done (Boosts and nerfs)...
Upgrades...
> Holy Damage Blocker is way too slow and expensive at 35/min and 100 mana cost. Its the sole reason everyone runs around with catharsis up all their life. The rof needs to be DOUBLED and the cast cost needs to be halved. There used to be a time i could do op battles without catharsis, but its the dmg blocker is just too expensive/slow to be viable.
> Heals should get more range and it would be nice if you could runcast them (~75/min rof) After all a ppu are all about their heals. Why is the only spell we get to runcast the spell which is borderline an attack spell? (Parashock)
> Shelter needs to be fixed, i believe there is still no difference between a ppus 300% dmg holy shelter and 576% shelter.
> I would like to see damage boost on mobs only require one boost. After the rof nerf a while back, casting dmg boost on mobs is incredibly tedius.
> Single cast catharsis/holy catharsis are possible the most useless spells in this game. Rof on holy catharsis needs to be 70/min with a cast cost of around 120 mana.
Downgrades...
> Personal shelter (note not other target) needs downgrading (preferably tie it in with a shelter fix, meaning that at 576% the holy shelter would be ~10% weaker atm considering that not everyone will cap the spell)
> All parashocks need to have their mana cost tripled. And maybe the rof should be brought downto 52/min.
The thing is however much you "adjust" ppus, you HAVE to remember they are THE defense character. You will always need 4+ people to take down a ppu no matter what. When they are not parashocked you will even have a harder time.
Its funny, all the people want to see parashock removed hate ppus because they think ppus love their parashock. Ironically it is the ppus who would benefit the most from removing the parashocks. You think im lieing? Just try and fight a ppu who uses catharsis sanctum on a regular basis without parashock spamming them...Good luck on killing them lol.
Original monk
13-08-03, 16:48
stop nerfing stuff, NO nerf to the PPU, remove the liberator completely
I'd rather see shields nerfed than heals, a shite ppu can shield and primary (ok I just wanted to say that word, stfu) people with no effort, thus making them all a lot tougher than a group without a ppu. To make up the heals could be upgraded, healing people midfight is not so easy, neh?
That puts more emphasis on actually looking after your teammates than para/boosting enemies, and would go some way to separating the crap ppu's from the good ones.
Also like to see the shields last longer, so boring having to recast every 2 mins.
Originally posted by Oath
(though a PPU using a Tan AR (i thnk it was) was a little unnerving)
*hides his TAR behind his back*
Originally posted by Nish
I'd rather see shields nerfed than heals
I guess you didn't read the recent patch notes? Shields were nerfed. Only the PPU gets the full effect of the shield, everyone else gets a lesser one, and Hybrids get even worse ones.
Who thinks this thread should be closed?
Yes Archeus I was aware tah, but still feel they're a little overpowered at times. How often do you miss a shield when your target is stationary and willing?
Originally posted by Nish
Yes Archeus I was aware tah, but still feel they're a little overpowered at times. How often do you miss a shield when your target is stationary and willing?
How often is your target stationary even though they're willing? Combat characters seem to have an itchy running trigger. People just don't like standing still. I can't tell you how many people do a little dance infront of me while asking for heals/shelters/buffs. That's not even during combat, then you've got hostiles and friendlies strafing around each other going in every single direction. Try targeting the one friendly tank who is demanding a heal while he's running away from an apu monk.
How often is your target stationary even though they're willing?
Yea I've lost count of the number of times I have had a player scream "Shield!" or "Heal" which running around in circles or run off around a corner. They seem to think I can cast through walls or something. :rolleyes:
Or my favorites.
1. You just finished buffing them (or not finished) and they run right into a spawn which you know they have no chance in hell of living, and you have no buffs or mana to protect them. Repeat procedure when you rez them.
2. Trying to rez someone, and an idiot runs in front of you.
3. (The top favorite for CRP caves). While in the middle or starting a rez, another player runs up to you and screams "HEA..." dead. Of course they drag everything that was attacking them to you, so you have to run or die.
Back on topic, the shields for other players is weaker, and hybrids are even weaker (to themselves and worse to others). I don't see the problem.
strangelove
13-08-03, 18:12
never thought id say that, but i do love you for your arguments prom
:angel:
ghandisfury
13-08-03, 18:15
Originally posted by Archeus
Yea I've lost count of the number of times I have had a player scream "Shield!" or "Heal" which running around in circles or run off around a corner. They seem to think I can cast through walls or something. :rolleyes:
Or my favorites.
1. You just finished buffing them (or not finished) and they run right into a spawn which you know they have no chance in hell of living, and you have no buffs or mana to protect them. Repeat procedure when you rez them.
2. Trying to rez someone, and an idiot runs in front of you.
3. (The top favorite for CRP caves). While in the middle or starting a rez, another player runs up to you and screams "HEA..." dead. Of course they drag everything that was attacking them to you, so you have to run or die.
Back on topic, the shields for other players is weaker, and hybrids are even weaker (to themselves and worse to others). I don't see the problem.
:lol: One of my favorites for crp caves is when you rez them, they run off without so much as a heal to gain agro back....dead......wash-rince-repeat.
Or even better "S/D HURRY" no shit??? I've been using team buffs this whole time....:rolleyes:
Actually I was thinking nerf para hell take it right out just remember monks dont need to stop in combat
I've always liked while in the middle of a firefight when someone runs up to me, "Haz/rc/spy please!" Yes let me ignore everyone else that is currently dying and swap 3 spells out of my inventory so you can have an edge in combat.
Also fun is when you shelter your team prior to an op fight but then they hafta wait for some slowpoke. Then everyone charges at the op.. and I'm yelling "NOOOO!! YOUR SHELTERS ARE GOING!" Nope they just run in and die.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Actually I was thinking nerf para hell take it right out just remember monks dont need to stop in combat
Unless you're a ppu monk.... We can only run cast para heh everything else requires us to slow down to walk at least, more likely standin still.
Fun parts about being a ppu...
1) Giving out combat boosts to players and they move and you cast HC3 on yourself \o/
2) Having someone shout "I need shields and a heal" while they run around you dancing expecting you to have quake3 targetting skills at 15 fps
3) Getting everyone together for group shielding, then having seen a few enemy half the group decide to go run off without shields.
4) People ducking down during fights knocking their buffs out of sync.
It seems everythime i come to these forums there is a thread about ppu's needed a nerf, it may make people think there is a problem, however its the same few people constantly crying...
Ok so the ppu is not like the acolyte/priest/ healer in other games in that they have slighly better defenses, so in line with the other games everyone wants to go by...weaken our defenses.
But other games as stated give 100% insta heal, and they can use weapons to deal decent dmg.
So fine nerf our shields (again!) but give us inta heal and a weapon comparable to tpc/epr etc
Hmm cause that will ballence the game :rolleyes:
PPU's are fine, they are a part of the game get used to it!
Heh, actually one of the balance problems is the fact that this is an fps, and most other mmorpgs are turned based. In the turn based mmorpgs you often have some easy way of targetting your teammates and firing of those heals, which are not heal over time (HOT) as in neocron but heals a big chunk of hitpoints, but heals less hitpoints per spell than the HOT spells. If the heals in neocron were HOTs then they would only heal a fraction of the hp per spell compared to now, and that in turn would make PPUs alot worse, since the PPUs power comes from the fact that they dont need to chaincast their heals, they can just start one every once in a while.
Sure, make the heals insta if you want, but not even I call for a ppu nerf that harsh.
What MMORPGs (seeing as it is most) is turn based?
Originally posted by ghandisfury
:lol: One of my favorites for crp caves is when you rez them, they run off without so much as a heal to gain agro back....dead......wash-rince-repeat.
Or even better "S/D HURRY" no shit??? I've been using team buffs this whole time....:rolleyes:
omg I hate that.
Here's another one I hate.
When they don't give you clue when their shelters are about to run out and they stay in front of all the powerful mobs.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Archeus
What MMORPGs (seeing as it is most) is turn based?
AO,DaoC,EQ,etc etc
the term turnbased is misleading, its related to the system used for resolving combat. What it means is that you have a target system instead of a aiming system, and your character will autoaim and the hit chance is purely based on stats and a little blum blum shub.
Promethius
13-08-03, 20:06
Originally posted by Carinth
How often is your target stationary even though they're willing? Combat characters seem to have an itchy running trigger. People just don't like standing still. I can't tell you how many people do a little dance infront of me while asking for heals/shelters/buffs. That's not even during combat, then you've got hostiles and friendlies strafing around each other going in every single direction. Try targeting the one friendly tank who is demanding a heal while he's running away from an apu monk.
lmao i've screamed at countless clan members because they will be like sheler/hc/heal.
Then they run up to u side strafe a bit crouch adn walk around while crouched lol. Doesn't sound to a hrd to hti em wit a heal but wit 15 fps it gets a bit tricky.
This one always annoyed me a bit. Call for group buffs wait a while and 2 show up...then u ask once more...maybe one other will come. SO u figure hey the others lose they didn't come so u cast all teh buffs and then about 4 others come running about askin for shetler /def.
Originally posted by Rade
, which are not heal over time (HOT) as in neocron but heals a big chunk of hitpoints, but heals less hitpoints per spell than the HOT spells.
True however the higher lvl the char the bigger the chunk to health they heal; to the point one heal can insta heal a player to 100%, and as with all nerf cries people cant handle the high lvl runners not the low lvl runners so no it wouldnt be a big nerf for the high end ppus in my opinion....but it was also ment to be a stupid sugestion, the point of the post is that there is nothing wrong with ppu's atm and that people should get used to the game rather than moan all the time that things need nerfed, noone will ever be happy with everything.
Also mabey ive just not looked enough but this is the worst game forum ive seen for nerf cries, most other communities get on with enjoying the games...
Promethius
13-08-03, 22:18
Originally posted by Cyphor
Also mabey ive just not looked enough but this is the worst game forum ive seen for nerf cries, most other communities get on with enjoying the games...
words to live by.
This is by far the worst community Ive ever been a part of, thats for sure. Thats beside the issue however, MMORPGs, just like the MUD predecessors, are under constant development. The balance is far more intricate than in conventional games and one of the mediums that the developers rely on in order to get information about what needs changing is the community, in this particular case the forum is the communitys only voice.
And in this particular case I think PPU monks, or the monk class as whole, needs tweaking.
Promethius
13-08-03, 22:24
To be prefectly honest i woundn't mind if they jsut deleted teh monk class entirely. (of course we all kno this will never happen) But it would be interesting to see wat OP wars and such turned into. (spys = the ir leet ppu's). It would change everything.
Same here actually, when I first started playing NC I expected a dark cyberpunk world. Then I went down the sewer and met my first monkeh and suddenly I was back in dragons and dungeons again.... :(
OK after fighting a bit more today playing as my apu monk, I've realised what the problem is. It's not that ppu monks are too hard to kill. They aren't so bad when you're an apu monk. The problem is that tanks don't have an effective weapon against them. In order to damage a ppu more than he can outheal, the tank has to hit the ppu with all of his shots. Just like QD noticed the Lib is powerful but doesn't hit often enough to hurt, the same is true of the speedgun. PPU monks don't sit around letting tanks shoot them, they run all over the place, and a running tank can never hit with more than 50% of his shots. Now I can't think of a solution to this, but it feels like maybe something should be done on the tank end rather than the ppu end, and it certainly shouldn't affect other classes at all because tank vs apu, and tank vs PE are nicely balanced atm.
Originally posted by Rade
Same here actually, when I first started playing NC I expected a dark cyberpunk world. Then I went down the sewer and met my first monkeh and suddenly I was back in dragons and dungeons again.... :(
Same here, i wanted a cyberpunk world not filled with magical people who can ressurect and heal people by making fireworks, or monsters who drop "rare" parts....etc etc...
My favourites are the ones who know exactly what they want, when they want it and have absolutely no charm when asking for it. Even had people scream at me from enemy factions.
Do you have it all bound to a key when you play tank Prom? :)
*makes SMS for GIVE ME PRIMARIES, MONK*
QuantumDelta
13-08-03, 22:33
Still working on that, not sure what to suggest, anything that increases "Residual lock" even further is obviously an insanely bad idea (after all that's what makes CS something to complain about), however, there's probably no other way to do it... meh o.O
Promethius
13-08-03, 22:37
Originally posted by Nish
My favourites are the ones who know exactly what they want, when they want it and have absolutely no charm when asking for it. Even had people scream at me from enemy factions.
Do you have it all bound to a key when you play tank Prom? :)
*makes SMS for GIVE ME PRIMARIES, MONK*
speakin of bound keys...i have my X , 9 , 8 , 7 slot all rebound with mouse buttons and other keys on keyboard. made takina psi booster a breeze along with buffing primaries.
Nullifidian
13-08-03, 22:41
Originally posted by Duder
Same here, i wanted a cyberpunk world not filled with magical people who can ressurect and heal people by making fireworks, or monsters who drop "rare" parts....etc etc...
The problem at the moment is that the downsides of being a monk don't even come close to countering the upsides.
Sure APUs get killed fast, but APU monks kill faster than anyone else, and still have more defense than a Spy.
Then there's PPUs. It takes an army to kill 1 PPU monk. Of course PPU monks will whine and complain that they can't hurt a fly so this is fair. No it isn't fair. Yes you can hurt people. A PPU is so well protected they can even PUNCH any non-PPU to death. They can punch any 2 non-PPUs to death.
But I say dont nerf monks. Don't nerf PPUs. However, monks should have seriously harsh restrictions otherwise. Not boring restrictions like slow levelling (although that's already the case). I'm talking about stuff like being unable to join certain factions, attacked on sight by certain factions, randomly attacked by bigot NPCs in Pepper Park and/or OZ, etc.
Roleplaying wise, monks are supposed to be extremely powerful. They are a higher form of evolution. However, they used this superiority to control Neocron's government for many years, and once overthrown have since been hated, reviled, and feared by everyone who isn't a monk. The gameworld should reflect this.
Cityadmin certainly shouldn't be allowing monks to join it's ranks.
Other factions like Biotech should also be hateful of monks.
On the flipside though, if something like this won't be implemented, then in all fairness, the PPUs gotta get nerfed. Bigtime. Superbigtime.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Still working on that, not sure what to suggest, anything that increases "Residual lock" even further is obviously an insanely bad idea (after all that's what makes CS something to complain about), however, there's probably no other way to do it... meh o.O
I'd like to have a missile launcher that homed in, that would probably solve the problem but it would give tanks too much of an edge over apu monks, and possible negate PEs' speed, though with the massive force resist PEs get it wouldn't really hurt that much. It seems weird, the solution is only a few steps away but I really can't think of anything. :(
Originally posted by Rade
This is by far the worst community Ive ever been a part of, thats for sure.
Then you haven't been part of many.
Originally posted by Scikar
OK after fighting a bit more today playing as my apu monk, I've realised what the problem is. It's not that ppu monks are too hard to kill. They aren't so bad when you're an apu monk.
Exactly man. When I pummel a buffed monk with HL I feel so stupid and it feels extremely futile. But I feel great stacking them with poison, debuffing, then chain-casting HL(can't do all this together anymore because my pool sux).
Originally posted by Nullifidian
Sure APUs get killed fast, but APU monks kill faster than anyone else, and still have more defense than a Spy.
And spies can snipe, take a minor tradeskill to 100 while still being combat viable, and also stealth.
K THX
I think spies should also get a method of debuffage.
Promethius
14-08-03, 02:00
I've been thinkin of devising a pure combat spy. It mite even give me that feeling again ;) . But well I'm getting bored of tank. and spy sounds like fun. Now wat i am thinking is. should i go rifles... and stealth or just a pure rifle? as in no tech combat.
Originally posted by Arcadius
Then you haven't been part of many.
Most other official mmorpgs forums are alot tamer in my experience, mabey thats because the games have been out longer so in the experience of the players the games are more balanced, mabey its cause the gamers prefer to get on with the game than moan about every loss and cry nerf, or mabey its cause the mods are stricter i dont know.
All i do know is kk takes a whole load of shit that they dont deserve and no other company would put up with. Look at Ragnarok online, they can perma ban your char for "extreme spam" without prior warning :eek: along with alot of other rules, mabey the players dont get the same freedom of expression but it sure reads alot better to new players than...nerf this, nerf that, do this or i quit! threads...
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