View Full Version : The problem with parashocks...and the fix.
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 17:35
Ok, maybe I was a bit hasty with my previous post. Hopefully one of the mods can merg the threads?
I am a pure PPU 5 levels off cap. I use parashock spells for two things...#1 offence....to rape a tank or spy or apu. I can effectivly kill all of these classes (apu the easiest) with paralysis. #2 to piss people off. It's really anoying having to use drug after drug after drug (in this instance it's if there are more than one person in the group). Any PPU that says they use parashock as a defencive spell is #1 either there resists are seriously messed up. #2 not telling the whole truth. So please, if you're posting as a PPU and saying that you use it as defence.....let's keep this thread real.
THE PROBLEMS WITH PARASHOCK AS DEFFENCE
#1. It takes so little mana that it is spammable. I can cast and cast and cast.........
#2 Drugs take to long to work and even if you use a drug seconds after you're free...you're paralized again.
#3 Range is far enough that I can parashock without even showing up in local list.
#4 Only a capped PPU monk with a rare spell can counteract it (effetively).
Now that the overpowering effects of this spell are in mind, here are some fixes.
FIX NUMBER ONE
Make the range 5-10 meters. Increase the mana cost to 150. Increase the frequency and effect.
FIX NUMBER TWO
Make the range 40-70 meters. Increase mana to 100. Increase damage by 50%.Make the drugs have a lasting effect of 5 seconds (yes meaning that you could drug before attack and parashock would not effect you) and increase drug high. (meaning that after 2 or three drugs, you're going to have a hell of a high).
FIX NUMBER THREE
Remove parashocks all together. Add passive Soul clusters. A passive soul cluster would attack anyone who attacks the PPU. It would only have a range of 50-70 meters from the caster, and would stay for 10 minutes or until dead. You could only cast 1 cluster at a time.
The problem i find with parashock isnt the fact you cant run, its the fact you have a turning arc bigger than the titanic's... It takes like 3 swipes of the mouse across the entire width of my desk to make a 180 turn O_o If the movement was fux00red by parashock then just take away and let your mouse still be the same and hopefully it wont be that big an issue and would let the PPU get away from the thread (LIKE THE INTENDED USE OF THE SPELL)
oh no, not another 'nerf teh parashocks!!!111!1' thread.
KK will nerf it when/if they want.
nonamebrandeggs
11-08-03, 17:58
I'd just like to the the Rare Freezer Rifle do more freezing stuff, instead of nerfing the Para.
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 17:58
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
I'd just like to the the Rare Freezer Rifle do more freezing stuff, instead of nerfing the Para.
There we go......over power everybody else....not just the PPU:rolleyes:
I don't see why ppus need it for "defense" it's impossible to kill a running ppu even if there's multiple people attacking unless they have an apu, but still even if he's running it's almost impossible.
I acn't tell you the number of times a ppu has run through and around my team taking massive fire and not dying simply because he's too fast, and he tries to res etc........
It's simply a LIE That ppus need holy para for defense.
Anyhow mana cost needs to be tripled.
Why do people who make polls never make them fair and unbiased godamnit. Where is the "Its ok as it is" or "Something else" options? None of your options appeal to me, btw 10-15 meters in neocron is like melee range, that would be totally retarded.
My solution to parashocks...
Triple mana cast cost so Holy Paralysis would effectively cost 100 mana. Damage should be removed from all parashocks. Its f'd up that the ppu always ends up the one with the worst soul light from anarchy zone/hunting zone battles lol. When i kill spies with holy paralysis it just feels.....wrong :o
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 20:53
Originally posted by Arcadius
I don't see why ppus need it for "defense" it's impossible to kill a running ppu even if there's multiple people attacking unless they have an apu, but still even if he's running it's almost impossible.
I acn't tell you the number of times a ppu has run through and around my team taking massive fire and not dying simply because he's too fast, and he tries to res etc........
It's simply a LIE That ppus need holy para for defense.
Anyhow mana cost needs to be tripled.
That's exactly my point Arc. It's not a deffencive spell. Unfortunately it's been there for so long, no one want to get rid of it. I have never been parashocked unless it's an attack. I.E. two or more people with a PPU trying to kill me. In the same instance, I never use parashock for defence....I don't need it for defence. If there are two people trying to kill me I can pretty much outheal their damage. Even 10 people shooting at me...easy money while running around.
Many people don't want to get rid of it (imo) because it's a real pain in the ass having a stealthing spy mess with you...or the occasional tank having his fun. PPU's have no recource for a runner attacking us. That is why I would love to add a good soulcluster. I mean a kick ass-make a tank cry-soulcluster. One that's only passive, and attacks only when attacked.
agreed that this is a shite idea as it was before in the last post...
theres honestly a hidden agenda behind his ideas...hes just not saying what it is...there is no way someone who claims to have a PPU would even want to get rid of para...
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 20:58
Originally posted by Pitspawn
Why do people who make polls never make them fair and unbiased godamnit. Where is the "Its ok as it is" or "Something else" options? None of your options appeal to me, btw 10-15 meters in neocron is like melee range, that would be totally retarded.
My solution to parashocks...
Triple mana cast cost so Holy Paralysis would effectively cost 100 mana. Damage should be removed from all parashocks. Its f'd up that the ppu always ends up the one with the worst soul light from anarchy zone/hunting zone battles lol. When i kill spies with holy paralysis it just feels.....wrong :o
You can always vote on dead animals :p
Don't remove damage because then the PPU has no penalty for helping kill a nuetral/allied runner. The reason I didn't make other options is so people would post why it needs to stay or leave or whatever (which you...almost always do). So tell me why you want them to stay, and don't use "cause neo's driver sucks" cause if it sucks so bad then they just need to reduce runspeed to a crawl.
You said that 10 meters is gay. 10 meters is about right if you want to make it a defencive spell. They attack, you parashock and run.
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 21:00
Originally posted by extract
agreed that this is a shite idea as it was before in the last post...
theres honestly a hidden agenda behind his ideas...hes just not saying what it is...there is no way someone who claims to have a PPU would even want to get rid of para...
Extract, you are wrong. I am a full PPU, and there is no "hidden agenda". Tell me why you want to keep them, and we can move foreward from there. You say it's shite....tell me why.
Don't remove damage because then the PPU has no penalty for helping kill a nuetral/allied runner
I can damage boost a runner and then when that player dies i incur no soul light/fs hit. Why the hell should parashock be any different? Infact if we are going to be picky, resurrecting a hostile faction should also incur a fs hit :p
In the very least the system needs to ignore sl/fs hits if the dmg done is very very minor. There should be a 5% threshold. Right now i think you could probably take a SL hit for one punch on a 595 hitpoint tank :D
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 21:26
Hehe, I never said SL was perfect, infact it's far from being close to perfect. SL loss for killing NPC in a warzone....wtf is that:mad:
Anyway, you should cause damage with damage boost...and let's get real.....when you paralize someone, it's not an innocent hit. Your intentions are to kill/help kill that runner. You don't hit them once and let them be...you spam them to death (if you don't, you're not doing it right :p ). FS loss for resurection???? Maybe a good addition for role play.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Extract, you are wrong. I am a full PPU, and there is no "hidden agenda". Tell me why you want to keep them, and we can move foreward from there. You say it's shite....tell me why.
because however so it may be used for attack purposes...its still a damn good support spell and has served me well as both PPU & APU(its alot easier to shoot that tank with 100 agi/ath when hes para'd)
it might not always be used "correctly" in youre eyes but then again there isnt a rulebook on the spell anyways is there...so what if its used to kill someone do we not have the same consequences as everyone else who pk's???? i think so and being PPU it comes at a greater cost....its alot easier for an APU/TANK/PE to regain SL with quick kill missions but PPUs either got to spend 3 times the amount of time to kill with para or a bat or do stupid delivery missions etc etc
when you think about it...it adds way more pros than cons to the game....
Originally posted by nonamebrandeggs
I'd just like to the the Rare Freezer Rifle do more freezing stuff, instead of nerfing the Para. You arrived in NC after the height of freezer weapons' influence on the game.
Believe me - you wouldn't want them back again in that form.
Imagine a world where every character had a Holy Paralysis equivalent and there were no anti-shock drugs, or anti paralysis spells.
Fucking nightmare - glad it's not like that any more.
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 21:34
Originally posted by extract
because however so it may be used for attack purposes...its still a damn good support spell and has served me well as both PPU & APU(its alot easier to shoot that tank with 100 agi/ath when hes para'd)
it might not always be used "correctly" in youre eyes but then again there isnt a rulebook on the spell anyways is there...so what if its used to kill someone do we not have the same consequences as everyone else who pk's???? i think so and being PPU it comes at a greater cost....its alot easier for an APU/TANK/PE to regain SL with quick kill missions but PPUs either got to spend 3 times the amount of time to kill with para or a bat or do stupid delivery missions etc etc
when you think about it...it adds way more pros than cons to the game....
Let's think about that. The only possotive thing that parashock does for this game is give a player with less skills an advantage over a player with more skills. Notice, you said you cant kill a tank easily.......to me it's pretty crap when it's "easy" to kill a capped tank because of the use of ONE spell.:(
And no, SL is very easy to regain for a pure PPU. Let's keep the thread real please.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Let's think about that. The only possotive thing that parashock does for this game is give a player with less skills an advantage over a player with more skills. Notice, you said you cant kill a tank easily.......to me it's pretty crap when it's "easy" to kill a capped tank because of the use of ONE spell.:(
And no, SL is very easy to regain for a pure PPU. Let's keep the thread real please.
well you want to keep it real...now you think about this pit a pure APU and a capped tank together....now granted a APU can deal some unholy damage tank are also known for theyre "uber" resists...not to mention upwards of 500HP whilst the lowly APU with his 180HP(thats if he cares to have decent resists) equals out the dmg ratio...now my apu at a stand still cant take 2 bursts off a CS(IF...IF all shots dont hit) so yea I would say that using para in that instance would make it a pretty fuckin equal battle..as even a capped APU has to shoot a tank MORE THAN TWICE to kill him....I neofrag on the regular with my APU which you can tell from my sig is 64/57 and i NF with a xx/62 tank daily...and while I have had my share of wins I almost always lose...for one, with one burst my legs are fuckin gone...guess what...just like holy para...then as i stumble around trying to run i get a shot or two off due to my 105/min cast rate...before they get theyre SECOND shot off to put me back down on the ground....now with a PPU that whole scenario quite possibly would be reversed....Im no PvP god...but just because someone has a PPU para someone doesnt mean theyre not skilled...its called working smarter not harder....and if you want to get REAL TECHNICAL MR KEEP IT REAL...all i got to do on any class is aim youre youre stupid ass legs with my energy beam/HL pop off one shot maybe 2 and youre just as bad off with holy para...now granted youre bitch wasnt about being shocked so much as it was dmg from para PPUs you seemed quick to flip the topic as i did...fact is para is an essential part of the game...everyone uses it how they see fit...look at it like this...would it offend you if I needed some soulite and I used it to kill some agg captians??? probably not...so why is it a problem if I use it to kill you?
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 22:07
No extract, my problem is not the damage with holypara, it's the effect (you will note this with the second "fix"). 95% of your post was you alone vs a capped tank. This being the case, it would take SKILL to take out his legs. If you are fighting with a PPU, the SKILL is taken out of the picture. You are sheltered, deflected, and constantly healed....remove para, and it's still a tough battle....add it, and the tank is dog meat.
Not only does parashock take the skill out of the fight vs the tank and apu, but it also takes the skill out of the PPU. He doesn't need to heal you as much (this is because the tanks is nailed to the ground and the only shots he hits you with are lucky ones).
You keep saying "parashock is essetial to the game" but have yet to validate a reason. Parashock is NOT essential to the game, only the players who lack a bit in skill will say this.
and if you want to get REAL TECHNICAL MR KEEP IT REAL...all i got to do on any class is aim youre youre stupid ass legs with my energy beam/HL pop off one shot maybe 2 and youre just as bad off with holy para...
Note this would take skill in aiming at a moving target.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
95% of your post was you alone vs a capped tank.
I wonder why.....
Originally posted by ghandisfury
to me it's pretty crap when it's "easy" to kill a capped tank because of the use of ONE spell
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Not only does parashock take the skill out of the fight vs the tank and apu, but it also takes the skill out of the PPU. He doesn't need to heal you as much (this is because the tanks is nailed to the ground and the only shots he hits you with are lucky ones).
this is not true at all granted it is harder to shoot when standing still..it does not take the skill out of it...matter or fact I would think that you would need MORE skill if you were para'd...so in a sense all of youre points on the matter are becoming quite irrelevant themselves
Originally posted by ghandisfury
You keep saying "parashock is essetial to the game" but have yet to validate a reason. Parashock is NOT essential to the game, only the players who lack a bit in skill will say this.
maybe you need a crash course in english again cause I dont know how many times Ive got to repeat myself its main purpose is the stoppage of movement and it works quite nicely on all classes AND mobs its what i use it for out of neccesity and out of sheer tactics...Im not playing a game to be hard on myself...Im playing parts in this game to acheive victory and do it as quick as I can...para is just one of the many tools i use to accomplish this...but this is just something that i can see you will never understand...since in a sense youre basically hinting towards removing the very things that make life easier....bet you dont bitch when that PPU shocks that chaos vampire or those raptors that arent impossible to hit, but like to move around alot in confined spaces...and just to make one thing clear I play on perhaps the shittiest computer in NC... at any given time especially in battle I can expect 2-4 FPS, 10 at a stand still in my apt....so yea as im sittin trying to make due with what i got as my vid card is choking to save its own life and my screen is ticking para makes my whole existence in this whiny ass world you call neocron possible....is that validation enuf for you?
i made a pure ppu monk just so i could piss off the people who parashocked me, i love the spell is so lame hp just kicks ass , constantly shocking any number of player so they cant move is great
it should be removed its just to lame but so funny to see people get pissed off
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 22:45
this is not true at all granted it is harder to shoot when standing still..it does not take the skill out of it...matter or fact I would think that you would need MORE skill if you were para'd...so in a sense all of youre points on the matter are becoming quite irrelevant themselves
No shit????????????? Man, I hadn't thought of that.........:rolleyes:
Not only does parashock take the skill out of the fight vs the tank and apu, but it also takes the skill out of the PPU. He doesn't need to heal you as much (this is because the tanks is nailed to the ground and the only shots he hits you with are lucky ones).
This means that you can kill a capped tank (with let's say uberskill) easily because you have a PPU with parashock.
and just to make one thing clear I play on perhaps the shittiest computer in NC... at any given time especially in battle I can expect 2-4 FPS, 10 at a stand still in my apt....
Solution, get a better computer. A man convinced against his will is of the same oppinion still. I will not bother trying to get you to see my point of veiw.
maybe you need a crash course in english again cause I dont know how many times Ive got to repeat myself its main purpose is the stoppage of movement
Please read here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71602&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)
Holy Piss Off Spell.
I'm an apu monk, if I'm parashocked I wont last enought time for the anti-shock drug to work. Once I'm parashocked, I dont care of my mouse sensibility, I'm dead meat anyway.
I dont need them, I never needed them, I aim perfect to people who runs at full speed, with my monk, with my pistol PE, with my rifle spy, with my droner, with my tank (I know someday I will have skills with this one)... I dont need that spell to aim. If I can aim, everyone can.
I would like to avoid being parashocked, but you know what... I cant, it is impossible to avoid, you cannot kill the caster in the time he tries to parashock you.. once you are parashocked, you are also damage boosted, and then you can select genrep.
I would love to have instant counter-measures to that spell, or prevention-effect measures against being parashocked. I would like to see the damage of that spell removed, and the mana cost increase to 150-200; 33 mana is ridiculous for such devastating spell. 105 per minute and run-cast holy paralysis as capped or nearly capped ppu is also a terrible mistake in the game.
The idea of a passive soulcluster is really awesome, just hope KK would make it efficient and not the stupid dumbass mob it is now.
What can I say that already havent been said... I hate PPU's; Listen to Pitspawn, he's a ppu with conscience... I agree with Arc... Ghandisfury is right in what he says...
Just my thoughts.
nonamebrandeggs
11-08-03, 23:03
Originally posted by kurai
You arrived in NC after the height of freezer weapons' influence on the game.
Believe me - you wouldn't want them back again in that form.
Imagine a world where every character had a Holy Paralysis equivalent and there were no anti-shock drugs, or anti paralysis spells.
Fucking nightmare - glad it's not like that any more.
No I didn't!! Grrrr! I was just a carebear back then, but so were you! :p
Originally posted by ghandisfury
No shit????????????? Man, I hadn't thought of that.........:rolleyes:
obviously you hadnt or you wouldnt have used that lame excuse
Originally posted by ghandisfury
This means that you can kill a capped tank (with let's say uberskill) easily because you have a PPU with parashock.
this is a two way street man you can kill any class EVEN a PPU if u have a ppu with u
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Solution, get a better computer. A man convinced against his will is of the same oppinion still. I will not bother trying to get you to see my point of veiw.
obviously again if i had the means I wouldnt be playing on this one would I....point is people make due with what they have...they dont try to alter things around them to make theyre life easier...if you ask me youre looking for things to fall into youre lap...youre probably the same guy who envys the guy with 18 million credits and thinks of shotty ways to get it instead of earning it like a real man...youre true colors are seeping out of every last ignorant word you seem to say...
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Please read here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71602&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)
again crash course in english applies...I never once stated that that WASNT paras purpose...you just seem to be getting worked up over something thats so trivial...YES ILL AGREE gettin parashocked sucks...but when i get shocked the first thing that comes to mind to me is to press the good ole 9 button and drop some antishock...unlike you who instantly thinks "NERF PPUS!!!!!!!!"
Im totally done with this...Ive made my point and for what??? KK isnt ever gonna remove it...theres no logical justifacation to....Im just trying to figure out what the big deal is...theres way more things in this game needing discussion than a spell that since patch 186/187 has become quite obsolete...in case you dont remember they nerfed the shit out of it(supposedly according to patch notes)...anyways man its nothing personal...I just totally disagree with youre views...and certainly Im entitled to that eh?
Mr Friendly
11-08-03, 23:31
parashocks are fine the way they are, they just shouldnt slow down your pivot/turning motion.......just ur speed
ghandisfury
11-08-03, 23:51
Extract, you really need to read my post. I'm not the one flaming, or getting angry....you are.
Not only does parashock take the skill out of the fight vs the tank and apu, but it also takes the skill out of the PPU. He doesn't need to heal you as much (this is because the tanks is nailed to the ground and the only shots he hits you with are lucky ones).
This is EXACTLY what I posted. The person who uses parashock needs little if no skill once cast.
this is a two way street man you can kill any class EVEN a PPU if u have a ppu with u
ABSOLUTELY incorrect. You plus one other PPU (without the use of parashock) cannot kill a high rank PPU.
obviously again if i had the means I wouldnt be playing on this one would I....point is people make due with what they have...they dont try to alter things around them to make theyre life easier...if you ask me youre looking for things to fall into youre lap...youre probably the same guy who envys the guy with 18 million credits and thinks of shotty ways to get it instead of earning it like a real man...youre true colors are seeping out of every last ignorant word you seem to say...
Don't take your technical inferiority on me. If the only reason you want parashock kept in the game is because you have a shite computer....looks like you're the one wanting things to "fall in you lap". BTW, I was unclanned for 5 months and earned 1000+ rares and more than 18million NC ;) Not quite sure what you mean about the "true collors" crap....think you're just flaming there. I have never hidden what my agenda is.
but when i get shocked the first thing that comes to mind to me is to press the good ole 9 button and drop some antishock...unlike you who instantly thinks "NERF PPUS!!!!!!!!"
Why don't you come to pluto....I'll kill you with parashock. Drugs don't make a difference because parashock is spamable.
Im totally done with this...Ive made my point and for what???
Thank you for leaving.....however, you've made no valid point asside from telling us you have a shit computer with a shit connection and can only kill someone if you have a PPU glued to your opponents ass.
parashocks are fine the way they are, they just shouldnt slow down your pivot/turning motion.......just ur speed
APUs and SPYs will feel quite different about this. Once parashocked.......seconds later you're dead.
ok i lied
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Extract, you really need to read my post. I'm not the one flaming, or getting angry....you are.
well forgive me if my messages are getting misconstrued as flamage but at the same time youre whole point about getting rid of parashock is more of a convience than a need...honestly how many times a day are you honestly attack by parashock with intentions not that of support but theyre merely trying to kill you with para? honeslty I havent been around that long Im not afraid to admit it...but i can safely say that within the time I have been here not only have I never been killed by para...but the only times its ever even been used on me is by my goofy ass clannies just trying to be an ass...if you really think about it...these scenarios youre playing out are really rare occurences...and that in all actuality the said item isnt even getting abused...yes Ill agree once parashocked youre pretty well fucked...just the same as that lowly spy or APU with his back turned to that CS tank is fucked....just the same as that spy or APU running around thru wasteland centered in the middle of a silent hunter scope is fucked...there are plenty of things in the game that are gonna kill you once youre shot with em....why solely pick on the parashock...surely there are far more powerful weapons that do way greater damage...I can see upping the mana as a very logical thing to do...but taking away the dmg...no way...upping the mana to say enuf to get 3 shots off would be perfect because making it to where u can only shoot once every full pool is rediculous thats all im saying....
Originally posted by ghandisfury
ABSOLUTELY incorrect. You plus one other PPU (without the use of parashock) cannot kill a high rank PPU.
my god that is pure utter nonsense...if you honestly beleive that then you have NO room to even talk to me about skill 2 simple steps to dead CAPPED ppu
holy antibuff---then TL3 heal
dont work?.....try it and post youre results and ill watch you sing a different tune....playing as a pure PPU and having the priveledge of getting killed SOLO but one APU and a PPU showed me just how incredibly easy it was to die as pure PPU....nothings impossible...you just have to have more than 3 brain cells to figure it out
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Don't take your technical inferiority on me. If the only reason you want parashock kept in the game is because you have a shite computer....looks like you're the one wanting things to "fall in you lap". BTW, I was unclanned for 5 months and earned 1000+ rares and more than 18million NC ;) Not quite sure what you mean about the "true collors" crap....think you're just flaming there. I have never hidden what my agenda is.
yes youre quite right...me wanting to keep something thats already in the game because I cant afford something in RL is wanting something to fall into my lap...my god who knew???? theres a fuckin albert einstien on the forums
ALL BOW DOWN!!!!!!
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Why don't you come to pluto....I'll kill you with parashock. Drugs don't make a difference because parashock is spamable.
I never once said you couldnt kill anyone with parashock---where the fuck did you find this guy people...special olympics?
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Thank you for leaving.....however, you've made no valid point asside from telling us you have a shit computer with a shit connection and can only kill someone if you have a PPU glued to your opponents ass.
you really cant read can you...i tell you man i feel more sorry for you than i hold resentment towards you...maybe someday youll understand what ive said means...we can only hope anyways...its just too bad there arent intelligence implants in RL
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 01:46
Extract, I'm not going to waist my time quoting you. I'll guarantee you I can't be killed by only two characters....and I'm not capped.
You are misusing my post as "omgomg I got killed by a PPU" when in fact, I'm the PPU and watch capped tanks get assraped by parashock and a nailgun. You think you're the only one who's thought of healing a PPU??????????????? ya.....
Anyway, I won't go further into your post because it's full of flaiming.......not worth my time. I'll say it one more time, and I'll say it slowely..................READ...............MY................POST...............AND................ ....UNDERSTAND ..............IT before you post again.
A little off topic, but this sort of thing really annoys me...
Solution, get a better computer. A man convinced against his will is of the same oppinion still. I will not bother trying to get you to see my point of veiw.
There are people out there with so much money they buy the top gear, overclock it with phase compressor systems and have fucking plasma screens. Then there are us who are on a students budget just about scraping enough to make ends meet.
Thing is i dont mind bad fps, but when its slideshow fps on a game with dated gfx i get annoyed. I can accept that those out there with a 10mbit line and a godlike machine will always have an advantage. But just telling someone to get a better machine doesnt always work. I dont know, its a bit like telling someone on the street begging for pocket change to "go get a fucking job"
Maybe im getting worked up over this, but it really envies me when some people talk of 60 fps during op battles while i struggle with 20. And some out there get less, jesus christ.
I think FPS is largely based on the game engine. I have a nice gfx card but get 6 - 10 fps in a 30 person OP fight. Maybe less. I never get higher than 40 in city... 20 - 30 alone in wastelands. Really I get better fps in games like unreal 2k3.
About ppu, I think any spell that you cast on the enemy to give you a advantage should cause SL loss if they die. It's a hostile act to damage boost someone...
Also I think there should be a way for a high level person to resist parashock. It's insta death for spys, apu, or anyone else that relies on not getting hit. Only thing it seems fair against on is ppu monks.. they are hard enough to kill. Hard to the point of not being fun...
I agree with others it's the turning arch thats the major problem of shocks, if you could still have 360 degree moveoment at normal speed then you can at least turn to shot on ppl.
Also remove the dmg from it and apart from constant gluing there's nothing else actaully gained bar some mana loss o_O
Now days i run around with the anti shock spells and live with a apu so i dont need to para spam.... he does all the beam spamming. :p
Agree with pit on the comp comment, telling ppl to get a new comp..... sure send me the wad of cash to do it and i'll gladly upgrade.
People don't have crap comps because they enjoy 3 fps, generally means they aint in a financial position yet to upgrade.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Extract, I'm not going to waist my time quoting you. I'll guarantee you I can't be killed by only two characters....and I'm not capped.
Ill still be willing to bet differently...given the right circumstances anythings possible
Originally posted by ghandisfury
You are misusing my post as "omgomg I got killed by a PPU" when in fact, I'm the PPU and watch capped tanks get assraped by parashock and a nailgun. You think you're the only one who's thought of healing a PPU??????????????? ya.....
Anyway, I won't go further into your post because it's full of flaiming.......not worth my time. I'll say it one more time, and I'll say it slowely..................READ...............MY................POST...............AND................ ....UNDERSTAND ..............IT before you post again.
I never claimed I was the creator of the low TL healing a PPU...now whos misusing posts.....I just keep bringing it up because you semm so hell bent on not being able to kill a PPU when it is in fact possible...just because certain methods dont work for you doesnt mean they dont work at all...
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 05:33
Originally posted by extract
Ill still be willing to bet differently...given the right circumstances anythings possible
YES if I make crash....you might be able to (might).
[/B][/QUOTE]I never claimed I was the creator of the low TL healing a PPU...now whos misusing posts.....I just keep bringing it up because you semm so hell bent on not being able to kill a PPU when it is in fact possible...just because certain methods dont work for you doesnt mean they dont work at all... [/B][/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Extract, I'm not going to waist my time quoting you. I'll guarantee you I can't be killed by only two characters....and I'm not capped.
Today in pp gostly and I had you down to like 10 hps but then you zoned. So i think it's possible to kill you with only 2 characters.
Originally posted by petek480
Today in pp gostly and I had you down to like 10 hps but then you zoned. So i think it's possible to kill you with only 2 characters.
I killed him by myself. :p
But still Ghandi has alot of good points.
Promethius
12-08-03, 06:05
Originally posted by Arcadius
I don't see why ppus need it for "defense" it's impossible to kill a running ppu even if there's multiple people attacking unless they have an apu, but still even if he's running it's almost impossible.
I acn't tell you the number of times a ppu has run through and around my team taking massive fire and not dying simply because he's too fast, and he tries to res etc........
It's simply a LIE That ppus need holy para for defense.
Anyhow mana cost needs to be tripled.
I really don't see the lie. You attack me....in defense i can shock ur ass and run.
Btw wats the problem wit ppus. They are there to protect you as well so stop complaining about them in everyway. There fine...hard to kill of course. They have NO attack jsut healin and runnin.
Originally posted by Promethius
I really don't see the lie. You attack me....in defense i can shock ur ass and run.
I meant the statement "ppus NEED holy para for defense" is a big fat lie.
Originally posted by Promethius
Btw wats the problem wit ppus. They are there to protect you as well so stop complaining about them in everyway. There fine....
Well that's your opinion. But I think they should be removed entirely, but since that won't happen I shall continue to complain about them until I feel they are finely balanced.
lol now thats funny were they balanced before hybrids got nerfed? I dont remember one single PPU are overpowered thread before patch 186/187...people will just always invent new things to complain about each time something else gets fucked up til it ends up being a boring game with nothing but whining
btw what constitutes balance anyways? cause surely altho severly hindered monks still have the ability to become hybrid...and honestly now would you say that hybrids need to be nerfed? would you write a thread talking about how its unfair that a monk these days can heal and attack? albiet a pure PPU has ability to both heal and attack without having a shred of APU...so can every class in this game....isnt it bad enuf that they made our buffs shit for the people we cast them on...I find it so hard to beleive that noone hasnt ever needed the resources of a PPU...the only time i even play my PPU is when people DM saying they need help or rezzed which is an awful lot these days...oh well theyve already messed with para once and reduced the effects...I highly doubt they will do anything to make it any less useful...and yes Ill agree that para is not "needed" for defense but you cannot lie that it helps...
@Extract:
There were definately nerf the ppu threads before hybrids got nerfed. However, there are without a doubt more now that hybrids have lost the spotlight. No matter how well KK balance the classes people will still complain that in their eyes something is wrong with them. I do agree ppus need tweaking but i dont think the tweaks that i have recommended will satisfy the people creating the nerf ppu threads appetites.
Promethius
12-08-03, 06:54
Even if PPU's are overpowered...its not as bad as another combat class is over powered cuz well all it means is we can heal better. If anything ppus should be the overpwoered as u put it. I reallly don't see how PPU's are reakin havoc over everyone and there SOOOOO overpowered. Also jsut because you want balancing...well its not that easily obtained.
Take off dmg from parashock spells? How is a PPU supposed to do missions to cap str and dex, do a faction change, work on SL ?
I suppose you can remove dmg from Parashocks but fgs then turn the soulcluster up a bit or create another way for a PPU to lvl without LOMing from APU or being a tradeskiller.
Some more mana to prevent spamming HP or other parashocks are fine by me. (I love the insane ROF on my bolt tho :D )
Originally posted by ronaz
Take off dmg from parashock spells? How is a PPU supposed to do missions to cap str and dex, do a faction change, work on SL ?
noone will ever be happy...imagine if they do take dmg from parashock away...or if they took para away totally...what would PPUs do next...maybe move to some low level melee weapons? maybe lom some dex into rifle or pistol? then what? what happens then when someone gets owned with a lazar rifle? will that be the next nerf thread???? cause seriously thats what will happen you take away ability to kill with para...were just gonna find alternate means...and then were back in the same boat...and all you crybabies will just start the whining process all over again...so really its nothing to get worked up or argue about over and over....in fact only reason Im even doing it is because my account is still expired and I have nothing better to do
Originally posted by ronaz
Take off dmg from parashock spells? How is a PPU supposed to do missions to cap str and dex, do a faction change, work on SL ?
I suppose you can remove dmg from Parashocks but fgs then turn the soulcluster up a bit or create another way for a PPU to lvl without LOMing from APU or being a tradeskiller.
Some more mana to prevent spamming HP or other parashocks are fine by me. (I love the insane ROF on my bolt tho :D )
mc 3 and a good baseball bat!
heh i watched a ppu glue us down... i unglued myself but my apu didnt get unglued and he still antibuffed a running ppu and wasted him with his mad ranged hl.
So i stick to my comment really, remove dmg and get rid of the turning arc penalties
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 14:31
Originally posted by Arcadius
I killed him by myself. :p
But still Ghandi has alot of good points.
I was still hybrid :p LOMed it cause I got tired of getting raped by an 0/2 spy with a nail gun.
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 14:34
Originally posted by petek480
Today in pp gostly and I had you down to like 10 hps but then you zoned. So i think it's possible to kill you with only 2 characters.
Notice....I said "without parashock"..........but this doesn't mean that was awesome timing :D
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 14:40
Originally posted by Pitspawn
@Extract:
There were definately nerf the ppu threads before hybrids got nerfed. However, there are without a doubt more now that hybrids have lost the spotlight. No matter how well KK balance the classes people will still complain that in their eyes something is wrong with them. I do agree ppus need tweaking but i dont think the tweaks that i have recommended will satisfy the people creating the nerf ppu threads appetites.
Dude, I'm not trying to nerf anybody. Read the post....I'm trying to make what is a OFFENSIVE spell in to a DEFFENCIVE spell. If you will note my fixes include "increase damage by 50%"......"increase frequency and effect".......I am a PPU and I enjoy using it, but I know (and will admit) that I use it as an offensive weapon.
So many people have opened this thread, closed thier minds and replied. THIS IS NOT A NERF!! It is merely a transformation of the use of the most defistating weapon in the game to its intended design.
I voted 4 because I can't believe you are still going on about this.
rawr stop crying about ppus.......... really.....
ok you cant remove dmg from para because of missions, kk cant code soulclusters soo a new version of em wont work.
look if your in a small team and you just have a few ppl to buff/heal, then the ppu will have to idle next to the fight....
since then the only agressive thing he can do is dmg boost.
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 14:44
Originally posted by deac
rawr stop crying about ppus.......... really.....
ok you cant remove dmg from para because of missions, kk cant code soulclusters soo a new version of em wont work.
look if your in a small team and you just have a few ppl to buff/heal, then the ppu will have to idle next to the fight....
since then the only agressive thing he can do is dmg boost.
My god!! Did you even read the post?????
Original monk
12-08-03, 14:47
FIRST YA KILLED HYBRIDS AND NOW YA WONNA TAKE AWAY MY ONLY MAINWEAPON ? NERF THIS THREAD I SAY NERF IT
Is this discussion still going on? The last thread I read had people who rabidly hated PPUs so they're clearly objective.
By all means get rid of parashock damage (in return for an increase in paralysis?), what the hell. But if you're going to completely remove a PPUs offensive capability you need to compensate defensively: bring out a fourth level of spells (Sacred, anyone?) and limb/head armour. The KK philosophy is that the more specialised you are the more powerful you are. Nerf the offense => increase the defense. And before I get some loony replying to this: PPUs are not invulnerable: use a weapon appropriate to the task 'tard!
Frankly I see no justification for removing the Parashock and Paralysis spells from the game any more than I can see justification for removing the Liberator or the Cursed Soul or, for that matter, calling a spell a shit name like Antibuff when there are plenty of 'in-character' names like Exorcism, Purge, Scourge et cetera (and don't even start about it being an APU spell).
It is baffling that the word on the forums is that PPUs are dangerous when last night I heard again a Tank laughing about how ineffectual PPUs are... I think the telling part was that a medi-kit was healing damage faster than it was being dealt.
The rabid droolings of a vocal minority run contrary to all the experience (both personal and anecdotal) that I have acquired.
Please let this thread die!
Ok since all this crap appeared about nerfing the paralysis spell I have become able to use it on my ppu.
I really really REALLY don't have a clue what you are going on about.
I cannot kill a player of decent rank with it. It takes forever and I have to stop to heal and re-buff myself all the time.
Seriously these threads r a load of crap.
I'm gonna start a nerf everything thread next week... cos that's what you guys wanna do. If you got your way with this you'd move onto something else next week. Until this game became 1 big carebear land for you to fluffle people in.
This is an actual fact... no BS...
Last nite I triple damageboosted a launcher cyclops... and hit it with my shiny new Holy Paralysis spell... and lo and behold.... 40 damage per hit! My mate was doing 60 damage with the unlabelled lasercannon after triple damage boost ffs... what crap r you on about?
Do the test urself. I shit you not.
BOTTOM LINE.... "ITS NOT THE DAMAGE OF THE PARALYSIS SPELL THAT'S THE PROBLEM... ITS THE STRENGTH OF YOUR SHIELDS KEEPING YOU ALIVE WHILE YOU CAST IT 4000 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!"
Entity out... Oh and no-more threads this month pls... its getting tiring
Originally posted by ghandisfury
My god!! Did you even read the post?????
yes i did, and i didnt like any of the choices you put in the pol,
Would have loved a "Should I stfu and go reroll to a pistol spy?"
what i didnt read was the following 4 pages of your ranting.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
So many people have opened this thread, closed thier minds and replied. THIS IS NOT A NERF!! It is merely a transformation of the use of the most defistating weapon in the game to its intended design.
come on man what the hell? the most devistating weapon in the game? I think not...not even close...and whats this intended use bullshit? how do YOU know what it was intended for?....think about it...it doesnt do damage for no reason at all...so in my mind it was made with the intention to possibly QUITE possibly be able to kill something....and if this spell was so devistating...why would it take 2 shots to kill a spider 2/2 without dmg boost....
sounds devistating to me......REAL SCARY *shivers*
Usually the damage doesnt scare me, as APU monk I deal quite a lot, and also I can die quite easy, however the person who deals damage, usually need skill to aim me, most when I randomly dodge using every advantage of the terrain
Parashoks do not deal damage, and need much more time to kill me than i.e. a CS, but the effect of a parashock in me means my instant dead, unless I have a great deal of luck. A CS wielder is not my dead, a parashock user, specially holy paralysis, is the dead walking.
That's what imo Ghandisfury meant with "devastating weapon"; to be honest, twisting the meaning of his words to be sarcastic, when you lack of an argument to counter his, does not make you look funnier or clever.
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 19:19
Originally posted by extract
come on man what the hell? the most devistating weapon in the game? I think not...not even close...and whats this intended use bullshit? how do YOU know what it was intended for?....think about it...it doesnt do damage for no reason at all...so in my mind it was made with the intention to possibly QUITE possibly be able to kill something....and if this spell was so devistating...why would it take 2 shots to kill a spider 2/2 without dmg boost....
sounds devistating to me......REAL SCARY *shivers*
Devistating meaning---------------------if you're a midrank spy with a capped PPU it will be easy for you to kill a capped tank.............without parashock, it will still be a challenge. Please read the post, and stop flaming. You are interpreting this thread as a "I can kill anyone with parashock". It's a "My team can kill anyone if I parashock my opponent even if the are 20 ranks higher than the one member of my team". Do I need to translate this, or do you get it for the tenth time?
Originally posted by Sleawer
That's what imo Ghandisfury meant with "devastating weapon"; to be honest, twisting the meaning of his words to be sarcastic, when you lack of an argument to counter his, does not make you look funnier or clever.
I agree. It looks like alot of people are purposely missing his point.
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 19:52
Lets define PPU..............................
Passive Psi Use..........Passive meaning anything that possotivly effects any player I.E. shelter/deflector/buff etc....
Now lets do a bit of Q&A.................
Q. Ghandi, why are you so hell bent on removing the parashock spell?
A. I'm not. If you would read the first two "fixes" you would see that I'm trying to change it from the use of Aggresive to Passive.
Q. Well....WTF? It's pretty hard to kill ANYONE with a parashock spell....
A. Yes, my point is #1 it is possible to kill. #2 It means you are instantly dead once it is cast on you (provided the PPU has a team to deal damage).
Q. OK OK.....why aren't you picking on Damage boost??? huh huh? It's not "possotive"?
A. You are correct. Damage boost is a spell that effects a player in a negative maner.......The reason I'm not attacking it is two fold. #1 Once a player has damage boost cast on them the opposing player still has to show a degree of skill in hitting a moving target...using tarain to his advantage...etc... #2 I would have every PE in the game KOS me.
Q. You said you want to change it to "it's origional desing"....how do you know what that is????hmmmmm?
A. PPU=Passive Parashock=negative.
Q. Well how in the hell are we supposed to do missions.....epics...etc if you remove the parashock spell?
A. Fix the Soul clusters. Please note that this is on "fix" three.
Q. WOOOOOOO!!! Ok, WTF???Hmmmm Soul clusters effect the player in a negative manner...shouldn't we remove those too? HUH....MR TECHNICHAL?
A. Soulclusters do thier masters bidding (or they would if they are fixxed). This would relinquish the PPU of aggresion.
Q. Why are you trying to nerf the PPU????? Comon!! aren't we done with the nerf the monk phase?
A. It's not a nerf. If you'll notice, there have been additions to ballance it to a passive spell I.E. more damge, longer durration, higher freq, much much shorter range....
Q. Do you sleep with dead animals?
A. Yes.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Lets define PPU..............................
Passive Psi Use..........Passive meaning anything that possotivly effects any player
Source?
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 20:50
Originally posted by jernau
Source?
Main Entry: 1pas·sive
Pronunciation: 'pa-siv
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin passivus, from passus, past participle
Date: 14th century
: receiving or enduring without resistance : SUBMISSIVE b : existing or occurring without being active, open, or direct <passive support>
Websters
Promethius
12-08-03, 20:51
Theres nothing wrong with the parashock. Yes it freezes hard and froma distance. They invented drugs to counter act this....IMO this thread should be FIXING DRUGS not nerf everything u dislike in the game.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Main Entry: 1pas·sive
Pronunciation: 'pa-siv
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin passivus, from passus, past participle
Date: 14th century
: receiving or enduring without resistance : SUBMISSIVE b : existing or occurring without being active, open, or direct <passive support>
Websters
In other words - nothing like what you said before :rolleyes:
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 20:54
Originally posted by Promethius
Theres nothing wrong with the parashock. Yes it freezes hard and froma distance. They invented drugs to counter act this....IMO this thread should be FIXING DRUGS not nerf everything u dislike in the game.
Then vote on "fix" number two which you will see fixes drugs along with reducing the spamming of parashock. None of these are a nerf......just a change from an aggresive use to a passive use (or defensive if you will).
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 20:56
Originally posted by jernau
In other words - nothing like what you said before :rolleyes:
: receiving or enduring without resistance : SUBMISSIVE b : existing or occurring without being active, open, or direct <passive support>
Meaning that there is no neggative effects on the opposing force. "receiving or enduring without resisetance"........You shoot, I take it with a smile....not parashock you so my friends can rape you.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Then vote on "fix" number two which you will see fixes drugs along with reducing the spamming of parashock. None of these are a nerf......just a change from an aggresive use to a passive use (or defensive if you will).
Maybe more people would have voted and the poll would serve even limited purpose if one or more of the options had not been biased twaddle.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
: receiving or enduring without resistance : SUBMISSIVE b : existing or occurring without being active, open, or direct <passive support>
Meaning that there is no neggative effects on the opposing force. "receiving or enduring without resisetance"........You shoot, I take it with a smile....not parashock you so my friends can rape you.
lmao
I suggest if you can spare the time from searching for a clue about Neocron you look for one about English.
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 21:01
This post by no means is a twaddle......the reason it seams biass (or what you think is biass) is the lack of "I hate it" "you're stupid" options. I wanted people to post their likes/dislikes and read the post......it's obvious it didn't work that way.
Promethius
12-08-03, 21:03
honestly i don't think it even needs to nerf its 'spamming' capabilities. I can see wat u mean on a 1ppu+tank vs some unlucky bastard u can spam it then. But at an OP war with 30 people on each side...it goes something liek this.
shelter urself and everyoen within 10 meters.
Same for deflecter.
Your personal buffs.
Then heal everyone.
See a group of 15 people shock a good number of em and heal.
rebuff.
When it comes to OP wars you can't have ur parashock doin 100 thats jsut rediculous.
I think people just scream nerf the para shock (and yes makin it cost more mana than it or shortening the distance IS a nerf) because it can be very aggrivating and effective way to die.
So i say make drugs more effective....thats it.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
This post by no means is a twaddle......the reason it seams biass (or what you think is biass) is the lack of "I hate it" "you're stupid" options. I wanted people to post their likes/dislikes and read the post......it's obvious it didn't work that way.
A CLUE -
Useful Poll Options :
1) I agree
2) I disagree
3) I don't know
Biased Twaddle Options :
1) I agree completely
2) I strongly agree
3) Everyone who disagrees is dumb
Guess which yours is?
Promethius
12-08-03, 21:05
Originally posted by jernau
A CLUE -
Useful Poll Options :
1) I agree
2) I disagree
3) I don't know
Biased Twaddle Options :
1) I agree completely
2) I strongly agree
3) Everyone who disagrees is dumb
Guess which yours is?
lmao...
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 21:05
Originally posted by jernau
lmao
I suggest if you can spare the time from searching for a clue about Neocron you look for one about English.
Thank you for your unpravoked flame.....you should play an APU...it would fit you.
[a forceful action or procedure (as an unprovoked attack) especially when intended to dominate or master] Websters as well.
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 21:08
Twaddle: silly idle talk
This is not silly idle talk.....as I said. It does show a degree of biass. Did I not make my self clear?
"I suggest if you can spare the time from searching for a clue about Neocron you look for one about English. "
Maybe you should take your own advise?
Promethius
12-08-03, 21:10
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Twaddle: silly idle talk
This is not silly idle talk.....as I said. It does show a degree of biass. Did I not make my self clear?
"I suggest if you can spare the time from searching for a clue about Neocron you look for one about English. "
Maybe you should take your own advise?
is there a way u can edit the poll choices?
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 21:12
Originally posted by Promethius
honestly i don't think it even needs to nerf its 'spamming' capabilities. I can see wat u mean on a 1ppu+tank vs some unlucky bastard u can spam it then. But at an OP war with 30 people on each side...it goes something liek this.
shelter urself and everyoen within 10 meters.
Same for deflecter.
Your personal buffs.
Then heal everyone.
See a group of 15 people shock a good number of em and heal.
rebuff.
When it comes to OP wars you can't have ur parashock doin 100 thats jsut rediculous.
I think people just scream nerf the para shock (and yes makin it cost more mana than it or shortening the distance IS a nerf) because it can be very aggrivating and effective way to die.
So i say make drugs more effective....thats it.
FIX NUMBER TWO
Make the range 40-70 meters. Increase mana to 100. Increase damage by 50%.Make the drugs have a lasting effect of 5 seconds (yes meaning that you could drug before attack and parashock would not effect you) and increase drug high. (meaning that after 2 or three drugs, you're going to have a hell of a high).
Originally posted by Promethius
is there a way u can edit the poll choices?
No...:( Tried minutes after it was posted.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
Twaddle: silly idle talk
This is not silly idle talk.....as I said. It does show a degree of biass. Did I not make my self clear?
"I suggest if you can spare the time from searching for a clue about Neocron you look for one about English. "
Maybe you should take your own advise?
It is silly (as it stupid or foolish) because it is not at all well thought through.
I wouldn't have flamed if you had placed appropriate options in the poll for people to respond with views contrary to your own and if you had been able to provide a justification for your proposal. You did neither and then went on to accuse others of "closing their minds" which is hypocrisy. I hate hypocrisy so I reacted strongly against such a clear case. If it was overkill or inappropriate then I apologise but that won't make you any less of a fool in my eyes.
btw - "defistating" is a fantastic word, is that in Websters too?
ghandisfury
12-08-03, 21:20
Originally posted by jernau
btw - "defistating" is a fantastic word, is that in Websters too?
:lol: no, made that one up
defistating
Pronunciation: 'de-f&-"stAt
Function: transitive verb
To forget to proof read ones post.
I like how everything Ive said is seemingly off topic when the original poster himself doesnt even know what he wants...
If original concept as you said is to make it more passive than aggresive then why does fix #2 increase DAMAGE????? isnt damage itself a form of aggression? surely you of all people ghandi can see the irony in this....now maybe I am just sitting here argueing for the sake of nothing better to do...but at the same time maybe Im doing it because Ive realized that you have no clue
not only that youre replies are scattered amongst a mix of fixes and problems my whole point was that you just want it at all due to some sort of inconveinence youve encountered when in fact its just like promehtius said fix drugs so that they can counteract para rather than mess with para itself
ghandisfury
13-08-03, 00:01
Originally posted by extract
I like how everything Ive said is seemingly off topic when the original poster himself doesnt even know what he wants...
If original concept as you said is to make it more passive than aggresive then why does fix #2 increase DAMAGE????? isnt damage itself a form of aggression? surely you of all people ghandi can see the irony in this....now maybe I am just sitting here argueing for the sake of nothing better to do...but at the same time maybe Im doing it because Ive realized that you have no clue
not only that youre replies are scattered amongst a mix of fixes and problems my whole point was that you just want it at all due to some sort of inconveinence youve encountered when in fact its just like promehtius said fix drugs so that they can counteract para rather than mess with para itself
It's absolutely amazing to me that you are incapable of posting without flaming. It seems I've struck a nerve, and you're not quite sure how to express yourself in an intelligent manner. What's more amazing is that you have yet to validate a reason to keep parashock in the game (aside from the fact that you're poor and can't afford a good computer). I'll tell you what....I'll do it for you.
FIX NUMBER ONE
Make the range 5-10 meters. Increase the mana cost to 150. Increase the frequency and effect.
Why would the range be decreased? Because at the moment a target can be frozen before the PPU is even in local range. Why would the freqency and effect be increased? Because all of the PPUs who say that it is used defencively could spam it at their hearts desire provided the target was stupid enough to come in range.
FIX NUMBER TWO
Make the range 40-70 meters. Increase mana to 100. Increase damage by 50%.Make the drugs have a lasting effect of 5 seconds (yes meaning that you could drug before attack and parashock would not effect you) and increase drug high. (meaning that after 2 or three drugs, you're going to have a hell of a high).
Why is the range increased and mana increased in this fix? Because again, it's being used in a defencive manner. I am able to shock and run from multiple targets. Why is the damage increased? Because the effects along with damage should be felt by a target that is chasing the PPU. But wait!!!! You said I could drug and attack without reprocusion??? No, not without reprocusion....without effect, the damage would still be dealt, and if you decide to keep attacking......you would certainly die in a short period of time.
FIX NUMBER THREE
Remove parashocks all together. Add passive Soul clusters. A passive soul cluster would attack anyone who attacks the PPU. It would only have a range of 50-70 meters from the caster, and would stay for 10 minutes or until dead. You could only cast 1 cluster at a time.
Do I really need to break this one down? Let me do it like this. My two biggest bitches about being a pure PPU.
#1 Basically any player can attack me without provocation, and with impunity. (if I'm alone)
#2 When I LOMed to PPU I lost two levels. All of the levels took me under a month to make. It has taken me over two weeks to retrieve just these two. KK needs to fix this.
This fix would not only make hunting with a PPU more fun, but it would make a player that attacked a PPU have some consiquences.
Do you honestly think that this fix is for me? A pure PPU is almost invulnerable to this attack....more so that ANY other player. you say fix drugs....I say how? You keep coming back, and all you do is flame and show your ignorance with your saracastic nature, and have yet to offer any suggestions of your own or even a valid reason to keep it!
So, I await your next flame and idle post with all intentions of ripping it appart with ease.
so wait....now youre changing from making it so its easier to hunt with a PPU meaning make it so they can attack? does the runaround ever end...please please correct me if Im wrong here...but are you not changing youre mind every other post?
ghandisfury
13-08-03, 00:21
Originally posted by extract
so wait....now youre changing from making it so its easier to hunt with a PPU meaning make it so they can attack? does the runaround ever end...please please correct me if Im wrong here...but are you not changing youre mind every other post?
Do you read anything but the last sentence of a post?
Originally posted by extract
so wait....now youre changing from making it so its easier to hunt with a PPU meaning make it so they can attack? does the runaround ever end...please please correct me if Im wrong here...but are you not changing youre mind every other post?
Will you stop twisting his words' for godssakes. Ghandi has been consistent throughout the thread. You on the other hand just keep makign sarcastic comments, and it's like you wanna derail the thread.
Nah Im not trying to derail the thread...I am honestly trying to understand what hes trying to say...ok now before this does go any further let me elaborate on what Im saying now Ive pretty much got to take 6 pages of posting and put it into one paragraph so bear with me here...(this is me trying to be intelligent=O)
Ok the thread started off with a post about how he is a PPU and knows that "HE"(key word here lest not forget) was mostly using it as an aggressive spell whether it be to rape a tank or spy OR to piss people off(verbatim)...and also he mentioned in so many words that this in no way possible can be used as a defensive spell...and that we should ummm keep it real...ok you want validity and reasoning...well get ready cause this is gonna be a long one...
First off fix # 1 is totally rediculous...10-15m is like melee...now as it stand in all reality the only class that doesnt out range monks period be it APU or PPU is the melee user....lets take a look shall we
Holy Paralysis CAPPED RANGE is 184m
Holy Lightning CAPPED RANGE is 264m
Cursed Soul CAPPED RANGE is 483m
Pain Easer CAPPED RANGE is 628m
Liberator CAPPED RANGE is 116m
it seems that to me the only people who would not outrange a para are pistol and melee users...now granted most PvP is done within 20m, this really isnt my point...everyone knows most "guns" have better distance than all monk spells..but lets say for instance that youre theory is true that para has NO defense purposes whatso ever(or for the twisted word people) para is just NOT used for defense...play out this scenario youre a PPU and say youre out wandering around the wasteland by youreself(unlikely) but lets just say youre out and about and BOOM big mean tank with his epic speed gun just starts shooting you without provocation and impunity and all you want to do is finish youre lovely stroll thru the OZ...now you knowing full well that hes not gonna stop til either youre dead(unlikely) or he gets bored realizing youre not gonna die(very likely) or until you zone or genrep somewhere else so that he can feel like a big tough manly man...anyways you also happen to know that mr tanky can out run you with no problem..so what do u do? put out mr blue swirly smack him with some para and continue on youre way and good chance is that youll be way outta site before it wears off and bam there you go para being used for defense...see what I kind of think here is youve got this real big mentality that you just cant be killed and it hinders youre ability to see why on earth you would need something for defense...and I can totally understand that...but lets say youre a PPU that is not quite as hi lvl as you...see PPUs are really only unkillable(and thats a stretch) when theyre capped and have badass spells...but that PPU who cant use holy buffs NOR boost 3s isnt so fortunate..and WILL use things like para and soulclusters as defense if need be...so there thats my offshoot take on why distance is kinda neccisary AND i kind of fit my defensive uses into there as well..
OK FIX #2
this one is almost proper since its not really doing anything negative to para so IF i had to make a choice...I would vote for #2 only under the assumption that it was modded slightly...for instance the range thing again...range is fine where its at imho..its not out-distancing anything but melee and pistols which makes sense since youre not gonna be able to stab someone from 100m away nor would a real pistol in life do any decent dmg from that distance...also the mana idea is cool but 100 is a little harsh i say 80 mana tops would be good and this is only for higher lvl shocks(like beam and holy para) as not many xx/10-30 PPUs have a psi pool higher than say 250 and thats pushing it at the 30 lvl range..also the lasting effect on drug idea is pretty good but 10 seconds would be better as you probably cant get out of para range in 5 seconds....and the fuzzy screen on anti-___ drugs is a bad idea....youre not exactly gonna be any safer if you cant see where youre going....so thats my take on that
FIX # 3
never gonna happen but Ill humor you anyways...gettin rid of shock all together well obviously you know where i stand on that so I need not go into detail...but this passive soulcluster thing is also rediculous imo....not only are they ever hardly used, but when they are theyve always served great purpose...theyre good distractions when youre fighting lots of mobs at once in a team....theyre good for those bugger people who just cant seem to leave you alone and want to test youre invincibility...(I dont know about you...but I get shot quite a bit by people who claim "oh i jsut wanted to see what kind of dmg i do to a PPU") its quite annoying really...pop out a soulcluster and they tend not to shoot to much after that....
Ok now just to sugarcoat the defense theory a lil bit...everyone knows theres quite a bit off assholes who play the game...you know the ones who just dont care and shoot anything and everything you see....now I realize that since I do not play with an LE in I am succeptable to that...and I really dont have a problem with it for the most part...but as you know PPUs as a whole dont really have the means to go toe to toe...sure its possible to kill with para and soulcluster...and sure if its just one person chances are you will probably kill them before they kill you...but when the word defense is used Im pretty sure it has multiple meanings(and not just a threat on theyre life)...some people like me want to have a purpose in the game...be it hunting..making money..or whatever..sometimes you just like to go about youre business and be left alone...and sometimes para allows that to happen you got someone chasing you around??? shock em stops em real fast...now was that really "defense" no not really was it being aggresive?? nah not in the least bit...and bear in mind these arent just scenarios im making up in my head...especially the last one its worked out quite good for me many times...but whats funny is this range youre talking about...say you are the PPU that happens to be running away...except for pistol and melee users theyre still gonna be able to take pot shots at ya til they just run a lil firther and god forbid you para that spy with the silent hunter...fully buffed one shot off a capped SH will easily take half my health if not more, and however fast my heal does work(which is quite damn fast considering it is 4 slotted with capped dmg) its still not fast enuf to take 2 to 3 shots off a SH which I know shoots slow as hell...point is I honestly beleive para is fine....ive givin my reasons why..whether you see themvalid or not...which doesnt matter if you do its not like youre KK are ya....leave it like it is...the drug idea is cool fix those before you mess with spells....fixing drugs beneifits 4 classes hurts none......nerfing para hurts only one...but isnt really beneficial as the drug thing...because even if you do make it to where it takes more mana...any good PPU will STILL be able to spam you with it if drugs are left the way they are...my PPU has almost 400 mana...thats almost 4 shots with youre #2 fix....so essentially its not doing anything but making it so its only harder to kill....not shock.....
fix the drugs not the para
Will you stop twisting his words' for godssakes. Ghandi has been consistent throughout the thread. You on the other hand just keep makign sarcastic comments, and it's like you wanna derail the thread.
And will you stop focussing on one person? It's easy to discredit one person's 'argument' as it enables you to ignore the fundamental problem.
ghandisfury posted that:
a) there is a problem.
b) here are 3 fixes.
c) here is a poll which contains the following options: I like fix 1, I like fix 2, I like fix 3, Random drivel.
Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
Unfortunately point b) is entirely justified by predicate a), which is under dispute. So when someone posts a disagreement with point a) the response is, oh, but that is covered by fix X.
The poll is fundamentally flawed, it takes the position that predicate a) is correct with no other 'proof' other than a very slanted interpretation of a single dictionary entry.
A more balanced poll would state:
I like fix 1
I like fix 2
I like fix 3
I agree that there is a problem, but do not like any of the fixes.
I do not agree that there is a problem.
As it stands anyone confronted by the existing poll who fits into the last two categories doesn't know where to vote and probably doesn't bother to vote.
Accept the fact that the poll is fundamentally biased.
Accept the fact that there are people who think you are wrong! It doesn't matter how many solutions that you conceive that fit to your interpretations of how the game is defined; there are people that fundamentally disagree with the assessment that there is a problem and they have sufficient game experience to make this judgement. They are not going to be swayed by cheap rhetoric, because they have real experience that contradicts unsubstantiated statements.
Accept that there are people that are sick and tired of this thread and sick and tired of saying the same thing again and again only to have their opinion disregarded; it is therefore no surprise that tempers are fraying and responses are limited to brevity.
PPUs were changed substantially in the last patch: PA and requisite skill changes, Deflector and Shelter changes. In my opinion it is far too soon to propose further changes until the balance or lack thereof has been determined.
In my opinion limiting the range of Parashock spells because they would still be effective for evasion is just plain wrong; it'd be okay for escaping melee, but guns have range, some quite long.
In my opinion, PPU is called Passive to distinguish it from Agressive, 'Passive' is a label, not a definition. Relatively speaking it is passive. To argue that all PPUs have to be the emotional offspring of Jesus and Gandhi is ridiculous. One of the meanings of passive is "Not active, but acted upon; suffering or receiving impressions or influences", in other words a truly passive monk would not walk anywhere, but be pushed around... the player would not even be allowed to press a key. You can't mathematically apply semantics to linguistics! And passive use is an oxymoron.
Definition is from Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
Can I ust point out that by your definition (Sorry Websters), that a Passive Monk should have no ability to use any weapon!
So therefore... that means no DEX points and no STR points should be given to a PPU.
I base this on the theory that if we can use weapons against others, albeit for protection usually (I disagree with the offensive capabilities of the Holy Paralysis, see my post on page 4). We are deemed not to be passive.
Or maybe I should make that a little simpler... If we play the game the way Ghandis doesn't want us to play it we're open to criticism and he's gonna wave his nerf bat at us.
I don't think people should worry too much about Holy Paralysis being used as a weapon. I would give you the example of my Monk. He uses a Laserblade, and with my methods... he has over 110 Melee combat and a lot of agility. So based on the fact I can shock someone, triple Damage Boost them and then beat hell out of them with my 5 slotted laserblade 1 (which deals more damage than the paralysis and at a faster rate), the spell itself then pails into obscurity. I'm sure there are pistoliers and Rifle Monks who have made similar advances in offence.
I maintain that it's the shields us PPU monks use that buy us the time to kill others with insignificant weapons. And I don;t want to see them nerfed because we'd get a hammering from MOBs when everyone is trying to level.
Lets just put this into perspective with the whole game. There are far more niggly little bugs that have been around for a long time that need to be fixed and tweaked in order to make our gamEplay better. Lets worry about that and then prioritise lesser arguments for later.
WHY DO YOU WANNA NERF UR OWN CLASS? (IT IS A NERF :p )
ghandisfury
13-08-03, 15:37
@ Extract
it seems that to me the only people who would not outrange a para are pistol and melee users...now granted most PvP is done within 20m, this really isnt my point...everyone knows most "guns" have better distance than all monk spells..but lets say for instance that youre theory is true that para has NO defense purposes whatso ever(or for the twisted word people) para is just NOT used for defense...play out this scenario youre a PPU and say youre out wandering around the wasteland by youreself(unlikely) but lets just say youre out and about and BOOM big mean tank with his epic speed gun just starts shooting you without provocation and impunity and all you want to do is finish youre lovely stroll thru the OZ...now you knowing full well that hes not gonna stop til either youre dead(unlikely) or he gets bored realizing youre not gonna die(very likely) or until you zone or genrep somewhere else so that he can feel like a big tough manly man...anyways you also happen to know that mr tanky can out run you with no problem..so what do u do? put out mr blue swirly smack him with some para and continue on youre way and good chance is that youll be way outta site before it wears off and bam there you go para being used for defense...see what I kind of think here is youve got this real big mentality that you just cant be killed and it hinders youre ability to see why on earth you would need something for defense...and I can totally understand that...but lets say youre a PPU that is not quite as hi lvl as you...see PPUs are really only unkillable(and thats a stretch) when theyre capped and have badass spells...but that PPU who cant use holy buffs NOR boost 3s isnt so fortunate..and WILL use things like para and soulclusters as defense if need be...so there thats my offshoot take on why distance is kinda neccisary AND i kind of fit my defensive uses into there as well..
This is one person verses one PPU. Why would I care what "damage" this person is doing? He is just waisting his bullets, and putting wear and tear on his gun. Besides this, why am I on a stroll in the wastelands on my own? I can't level or defend my self.......
this one is almost proper since its not really doing anything negative to para so IF i had to make a choice...I would vote for #2 only under the assumption that it was modded slightly...for instance the range thing again...range is fine where its at imho..its not out-distancing anything but melee and pistols which makes sense since youre not gonna be able to stab someone from 100m away nor would a real pistol in life do any decent dmg from that distance...also the mana idea is cool but 100 is a little harsh i say 80 mana tops would be good and this is only for higher lvl shocks(like beam and holy para) as not many xx/10-30 PPUs have a psi pool higher than say 250 and thats pushing it at the 30 lvl range..also the lasting effect on drug idea is pretty good but 10 seconds would be better as you probably cant get out of para range in 5 seconds....and the fuzzy screen on anti-___ drugs is a bad idea....youre not exactly gonna be any safer if you cant see where youre going....so thats my take on that
The range is what finally makes it deffencive. A lvl xx/30 is going to get raped with or without para....infact, probably quicker trying to use it. You also don't like the drug fix. This would stop multiple people attacking me....drug come to shoot, run away...drug come to shoot, run away....after 2 or 3 times of this, they're not going to like me.
never gonna happen but Ill humor you anyways...gettin rid of shock all together well obviously you know where i stand on that so I need not go into detail...but this passive soulcluster thing is also rediculous imo....not only are they ever hardly used, but when they are theyve always served great purpose...theyre good distractions when youre fighting lots of mobs at once in a team....theyre good for those bugger people who just cant seem to leave you alone and want to test youre invincibility...(I dont know about you...but I get shot quite a bit by people who claim "oh i jsut wanted to see what kind of dmg i do to a PPU") its quite annoying really...pop out a soulcluster and they tend not to shoot to much after that....
You're probably right about the "never gonna happen part". A passive soul cluster would attack anybody who attacks the caster. They are hardly used because they are junk. You say they are good for fighting? Then your team must not use AOE.....or they sure as hell better not shoot it by accident. Do me a favor (you say you have three characters). Have a PPU cast a soul cluster on you. He will have to cast it twice. Then just stand there. It will do very little damage over a period of time. After the SC has vanished, do this exercise again only this time pull your weapon and shoot it continuously. This would be how it attacked if you attacked the caster.
some people like me want to have a purpose in the game...be it hunting..making money..or whatever..sometimes you just like to go about youre business and be left alone...and sometimes para allows that to happen you got someone chasing you around??? shock em stops em real fast...now was that really "defense" no not really was it being aggresive?? nah not in the least bit...and bear in mind these arent just scenarios im making up in my head...especially the last one its worked out quite good for me many times...but whats funny is this range youre talking about...say you are the PPU that happens to be running away...except for pistol and melee users theyre still gonna be able to take pot shots at ya til they just run a lil firther and god forbid you para that spy with the silent hunter...fully buffed one shot off a capped SH will easily take half my health if not more, and however fast my heal does work(which is quite damn fast considering it is 4 slotted with capped dmg) its still not fast enuf to take 2 to 3 shots off a SH which I know shoots slow as hell...point is I honestly beleive para is fine....
"shock em stops em real fast" no it doesn't, not with the new drugs. You basically have to spam them to death. Everybody is going to be able to take potshots at you....even the way it is now, but let's face it a tank shoots you with a CS or a PE with a lib....etc....they are going to be lucky to hit you with one shot. You say you can't take more that a couple hits of a SH with your four slotted holy heal...........:rolleyes:
@DCSparkes
The poll is fundamentally flawed, it takes the position that predicate a) is correct with no other 'proof' other than a very slanted interpretation of a single dictionary entry.
How do you suppose my interpritation of Websters is "slanted"? Let's just look at the differences in APU VS PPU. A=aggresive...what is wrong with this character? I don't hear anybody complaining that they can't heal, buff, deflect, etc...(let's keep in mind that even a tank who is supposed to have NO psi power is capable of even these simple tasks). PPU well....quite frankly they can kill, and they are almost impossible (without an APU) to kill. If I were an APU I'ld be pissed.
In my opinion, PPU is called Passive to distinguish it from Agressive, 'Passive' is a label, not a definition. Relatively speaking it is passive. To argue that all PPUs have to be the emotional offspring of Jesus and Gandhi is ridiculous. One of the meanings of passive is "Not active, but acted upon; suffering or receiving impressions or influences", in other words a truly passive monk would not walk anywhere, but be pushed around... the player would not even be allowed to press a key. You can't mathematically apply semantics to linguistics! And passive use is an oxymoron.
You're correct, PPU is passive to destinguish from Aggresive wich solves the "define it please" crap. I am not arguing that they are supposed to be "jesus or ghandi", what I AM saying is they are supposed to be "with retention of their spells only" unable to kill another player.
Infact, I'm not arguing the point of them being able to kill as much as they are inflicting certain death on thier opponet (provided they have a team to rape said opponent).
@ ]v[ortice
Can I ust point out that by your definition (Sorry Websters), that a Passive Monk should have no ability to use any weapon!
:rolleyes: receiving or enduring without resistance: Meaning you shoot me, I have do not or in this case cannot retaliate.
I maintain that it's the shields us PPU monks use that buy us the time to kill others with insignificant weapons. And I don;t want to see them nerfed because we'd get a hammering from MOBs when everyone is trying to level.
If you believe this is the case than a PPU should be 100% killable by ANY character in the game.
Originally posted by ghandisfury
[B]
This is one person verses one PPU. Why would I care what "damage" this person is doing? He is just waisting his bullets, and putting wear and tear on his gun. Besides this, why am I on a stroll in the wastelands on my own? I can't level or defend my self.......
yes but do you have to be in fear of dying to defend or protect youreself? and theres many things that can leave you alone in the wastelands...and alot of the time...since I do have a PPU...ive logged him in the wastelands cause I know theres not much stuff out there that can hurt me seriously....
Originally posted by ghandisfury
[B]
The range is what finally makes it deffencive. A lvl xx/30 is going to get raped with or without para....infact, probably quicker trying to use it. You also don't like the drug fix. This would stop multiple people attacking me....drug come to shoot, run away...drug come to shoot, run away....after 2 or 3 times of this, they're not going to like me.
but is using the fact that a lvl 30 runner would get owned a valid excuse to not have it in the game...cause thats what you just implied....ive seen just as many lvl 60 chars go down just as fast as a lvl 30 char....rank just buys you a lil time is all and gives you the ability to shoot better things....and finally whats the "this would stop multiple people attacking me"....Im still finding it very hard to beleive there is not some hidden agenda behind all this...some personal reason in youre head
Originally posted by ghandisfury
[B]
You're probably right about the "never gonna happen part". A passive soul cluster would attack anybody who attacks the caster. They are hardly used because they are junk. You say they are good for fighting? Then your team must not use AOE.....or they sure as hell better not shoot it by accident. Do me a favor (you say you have three characters). Have a PPU cast a soul cluster on you. He will have to cast it twice. Then just stand there. It will do very little damage over a period of time. After the SC has vanished, do this exercise again only this time pull your weapon and shoot it continuously. This would be how it attacked if you attacked the caster.
thanks for the school session...but I already know all of this....I never said they were good for "fighting" I said they can help a team out where theres large number of mobs at once to fight...it does a great job of distracting them while you rape em...
and for the record...surely as a PPU youve noticed the unbeleivably long shot rate on a cluster...and and youve probably also oticed that when more than one mob is shooting it it kinda just floats around and doesnt attack anything....how great would youre soulcluster idea be if more than one person was attacking the PPU...it would be nothing more than a fancy show of blue dots w00t...its fine the way it is...
Originally posted by ghandisfury
[B]
"shock em stops em real fast" no it doesn't, not with the new drugs. You basically have to spam them to death. Everybody is going to be able to take potshots at you....even the way it is now, but let's face it a tank shoots you with a CS or a PE with a lib....etc....they are going to be lucky to hit you with one shot. You say you can't take more that a couple hits of a SH with your four slotted holy heal...........:rolleyes:
I find it quite funny that you seem to always go to the end of the spectrum with youre replies...youre right not all shots will hit...hell even at 5m not all shots will always hit....and yes the SH is a frc/prc weapon that has insane range...and even better damage...and in case youve forgot force and peirce are not exactly smokin in our resist pool...so yea even buffed that gun does insane dmg....now of course this could be to the fact that my PPU was my very first char and this was before I learned of a decent con setup and Im also using exp cont 3 which pretty much negates any force resists I had so of course its gonna hurt me alot more than you if you have a good amount of force...all Im saying is in my eyes there are far more reasons to keep para than get rid of it...but this is obviously a free world...and one which we do not all have to agree in
ghandisfury
13-08-03, 16:17
but this is obviously a free world...and one which we do not all have to agree in
Finally, we agree on something.
;)
How do you suppose my interpritation of Websters is "slanted"?
You're initial interpretation of Passive:
Passive Psi Use..........Passive meaning anything that possotivly effects any player I.E. shelter/deflector/buff etc....
Subsequently you quote from dictionary 'definition' (although why you use Webster's when the OED is so much better! :)). Note the significant difference in meaning:
: receiving or enduring without resistance : SUBMISSIVE b : existing or occurring without being active, open, or direct
Subsequent interpretation (note how it changed when you got challenged on it by Jernau and that you only acknowledged one of the possible meanings that you quoted):
Meaning that there is no neggative effects on the opposing force. "receiving or enduring without resisetance"........You shoot, I take it with a smile....not parashock you so my friends can rape you.
Yet parashocking a player so that your "friends can rape you" is not direct and it's no more active than casting any other spell? Having someone else do your killing is pretty passive.
Moving on:
Let's just look at the differences in APU VS PPU. A=aggresive...what is wrong with this character? I don't hear anybody complaining that they can't heal, buff, deflect, etc...(let's keep in mind that even a tank who is supposed to have NO psi power is capable of even these simple tasks). PPU well....quite frankly they can kill, and they are almost impossible (without an APU) to kill. If I were an APU I'ld be pissed.
Despite being irrelevant to the current argument this is actually a good point. APUs should be annoyed at their ability to low-level heal being nerfed. I have said this myself elsewhere on the forum so just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean that such complaints aren't being made. But this is not relevant to parashock bolts. If APUS have been unfairly nerfed, un-nerf them. When all classes heal ability is restricted discuss restricting PPUs offense further.
You're correct, PPU is passive to destinguish from Aggresive wich solves the "define it please" crap.
Erm, but you're the one that started defining crap.
And it only became crap when people started using your own interpretation technique against you; it's okay for you to do it, but not for anyone else, but then this double standard inconsistency at best, hypocrisy at worst, permeates the thread (see argument with Jernau and intriguing accusations of flaming whilst insulting the 'flamers').
Just because you quote a dictionary does not mean that the use of the word is relevant; you have yet to provide proof.
I am not arguing that they are supposed to be "jesus or ghandi", what I AM saying is they are supposed to be "with retention of their spells only" unable to kill another player.
Based on your dictionary definition of passive being the opposite of active and ignoring the point which you claim is correct. I have not disputed this point anyway... in fact in one of the entries you curiously failed to acknowledge I have already stated that removing the ability to damage from the PPU would not be unacceptable.
Infact, I'm not arguing the point of them being able to kill as much as they are inflicting certain death on thier opponet (provided they have a team to rape said opponent).
So they aren't inflicting certain death on their opponent then; their team is, which is perfectly acceptable using your requirements for passive monks.
Notwithstanding, I still maintain that we don't have enough data to continue rebalancing PPUs and the fact is that it's drugs whose effects should be improved, not the spells that should be nerfed anyway.
Moving on yet further into the uncharted territories of responses to other people:
Besides this, why am I on a stroll in the wastelands on my own? I can't level or defend my self.......
Have you actually played the game? I have frequently left the city and, astoundingly managed to tag all the GRs without being ass-raped by marauding PPUs with their devastating parashocks, lethal Soul Clusters and their gangs of lackeys that they can set upon me. Some of the most enjoyable aspects of the game are exploring on ones own... no matter what class you are.
receiving or enduring without resistance: Meaning you shoot me, I have do not or in this case cannot retaliate.
And yet you still insist on using your dictionary definition, one that you have not proved to anyone's satisfaction is an acceptable definition of a PPU using monk.
I maintain that it's the shields us PPU monks use that buy us the time to kill others with insignificant weapons. And I don;t want to see them nerfed because we'd get a hammering from MOBs when everyone is trying to level.
If you believe this is the case than a PPU should be 100% killable by ANY character in the game.
That is not implied at all by what ]v[ortice said.
Frankly this discussion seems fruitless; you ignore that which is inconvenient to you and pounce on that which you can twist to serve your ends.
I shall finish by quoting extract (from so long ago):
again crash course in english applies...I never once stated that that WASNT paras purpose...you just seem to be getting worked up over something thats so trivial...YES ILL AGREE gettin parashocked sucks...but when i get shocked the first thing that comes to mind to me is to press the good ole 9 button and drop some antishock...
I just totally disagree with youre views...and certainly Im entitled to that eh?
I disagree with you. It's not personal. There is just nothing consistent or compelling enough to convince me that you have a valid point.
I didn't bother reading any of the last 6 pages but
All the ideas suck.
A better solution (offered many times before). Leave parashocks at the same power but make as a buff self only shield (with limited time/or mana locked). When the PPU is attacked the shield attacks with a parashock on the attacker.
This allows the PPU to escape/fight and only hurts those who are aggressive to the PPU.
Casting soul cluster/heal/shields after casting the para will cancel the spell.
Originally posted by DCSparkes
And will you stop focussing on one person? It's easy to discredit one person's 'argument' as it enables you to ignore the fundamental problem.
What a load of crap. I wasn't FOCUSING on extract, and I wasn't doing it to ignore any arguements. For a good portion of the thread extract was ignoring ghandi's arguements and just responding with sarcasm and other crap. Learn to read, thx.
Besides I agree with Ghandi anyways, mostly.....
:rolleyes:
I agree with him aswell.
He made very good points, and stated very obvious things that ppu's in these forums deny even when are in their noses.
What I'm tired of, is someone stating a problem with ppu's, and the entire ppu comunity goes directly to the throat of the thread starter with the same commens...
"OMG I cannot gain exp alone!!!oneone"
"OMG we cannot kill anything!!"
"OMG we are suppossed to have the best defence in the game"
"THIS WILL MAKE TEH PPU USELESS LOLOLOL!!!oneone"
And so on... and on... and on...
Time ago I disagreed with arcadius and thought ppu's were a necessary class in the game, now I have to regret my discussions with him and give him the reason... I dont like that class, it ruins the PvP. Sorry, my thoughts are these, at least I havent insulted anyone with them.
Promethius
13-08-03, 23:46
Originally posted by Sleawer
I agree with him aswell.
He made very good points, and stated very obvious things that ppu's in these forums deny even when are in their noses.
What I'm tired of, is someone stating a problem with ppu's, and the entire ppu comunity goes directly to the throat of the thread starter with the same commens...
"OMG I cannot gain exp alone!!!oneone"
"OMG we cannot kill anything!!"
"OMG we are suppossed to have the best defence in the game"
"THIS WILL MAKE TEH PPU USELESS LOLOLOL!!!oneone"
And so on... and on... and on...
Time ago I disagreed with arcadius and thought ppu's were a necessary class in the game, now I have to regret my discussions with him and give him the reason... I dont like that class, it ruins the PvP. Sorry, my thoughts are these, at least I havent insulted anyone with them.
OMG OMG KOS!! KOS KOS hax0r.
I think the game atm is rather balanced. I'm sure PPUs are a bitch to die but its not liek they gunna shocku to death..:wtf: It may be a pain in arse that ppus are strong but they also are tehre to support the other classes. Taken away para means PPU's will be unkillable. Nerf there shelters...make them die too fast. Make there spells cost to much mana they can't cast anything.
I would jsut say everyone leave the nerfin for the serious problems in neocron and eveyrone should jsut chill until DoY comes out. Cuz i havea feelin things will be changed then....
Yeah I'm actually quite happy the way it is now. PPUs are maybe a little iffy, but as I said in the other thread, the only thing that is unbalanced about ppus is that when they are the last man, only apu monks can kill them, tanks become utterly useless. I honestly can't think of a fair solution to this that won't make a difference to the situation vs other classes (tanks, PEs and apu monks are all very nicely balanced, spies have always been good snipers and are actually harder to kill than ppus when they know what they're doing with stealth). If there was something to give tanks a chance against ppu monks that would balance everything out perfectly imo. Or maybe if droners could see stealthers, there would be more droners, and if droners were given an additional advantage against ppus (since droners can't damage a shielded target at all, why not make drones shoot through shields?) then we would see a lot more droners, which makes yet another class viable.
I dont want to enter in nerf this or nerf that, I just feel the hostile enviroment inside and towards the ppu comunity... that's why I just post here my thoughts, and those are no more than that, experiences and thoughts. This way no one can say I lie, not with rights at least.
In one thing we agree, DoY will change things a lot, but not as many as people thinks; and surely at same it fixes and balances, also will bring new problems.
I know the ppu class wont dissapear, as much as I would want, so I just can agree with most things ghadisfury posted, because I read his post and all the following pages in first place, and also agree with Pit in many or most points.
edit: sorry Scikar but in my opinion there is no balance. If you want an explanation or a discussion about it, ask me ingame, I just dont want to enter in the flame-fest that is this thread. You know me and we can discuss things fairly, and also you know how many time I've been a monk.
Originally posted by Sleawer
edit: sorry Scikar but in my opinion there is no balance. If you want an explanation or a discussion about it, ask me ingame, I just dont want to enter in the flame-fest that is this thread. You know me and we can discuss things fairly, and also you know how many time I've been a monk.
OK PM me please, I can't get ingame for the next few minutes.
Promethius
14-08-03, 00:18
Originally posted by Scikar
Yeah I'm actually quite happy the way it is now. PPUs are maybe a little iffy, but as I said in the other thread, the only thing that is unbalanced about ppus is that when they are the last man, only apu monks can kill them, tanks become utterly useless. I honestly can't think of a fair solution to this that won't make a difference to the situation vs other classes (tanks, PEs and apu monks are all very nicely balanced, spies have always been good snipers and are actually harder to kill than ppus when they know what they're doing with stealth). If there was something to give tanks a chance against ppu monks that would balance everything out perfectly imo. Or maybe if droners could see stealthers, there would be more droners, and if droners were given an additional advantage against ppus (since droners can't damage a shielded target at all, why not make drones shoot through shields?) then we would see a lot more droners, which makes yet another class viable.
wat would be cool if there was a kamazazi liek drone that disables eevryones sheild. within the blast. that would be interesting to see hwo that palyed out durin an OP fight.
Originally posted by Sleawer
Time ago I disagreed with arcadius and thought ppu's were a necessary class in the game, now I have to regret my discussions with him and give him the reason... I dont like that class, it ruins the PvP. Sorry, my thoughts are these, at least I havent insulted anyone with them.
I read this 3 times and still don't understand it. :p
Are you saying you also feel PPUs should be removed?
Maybe a rare gat with a little higher dmg that can say do about 20/30 a clip to a ppu
4 tanks spamming him = 80 dmg
The pure speed of the cannon is gonna raise it a-lot o_O
Promethius
14-08-03, 01:58
Originally posted by LTA
Maybe a rare gat with a little higher dmg that can say do about 20/30 a clip to a ppu
4 tanks spamming him = 80 dmg
The pure speed of the cannon is gonna raise it a-lot o_O
they couldn't do something liek that cuz gat would be > CS. Well for oen thing those numbers are bollox. Cuz if they only do 30 dmg to a ppu one heal equals full HP. and a gentle giggle form teh ppu.
What a load of crap. I wasn't FOCUSING on extract, and I wasn't doing it to ignore any arguements. For a good portion of the thread extract was ignoring ghandi's arguements and just responding with sarcasm and other crap. Learn to read, thx.ROFL!
If you're going to correct my spelling at the very least make sure that my spelling isn't valid... the verb focus becomes focussing in the same way that gas becomes gassing in the past imperfect tense, although focusing seems to have become an acceptable variant.
But for the sake of 'arguement' (sic) lets look at the evidence: extract has written a large number of posts some of which are many paragraphs in length, which are, in the main not only sarcasm, but intentionally or not picked up severe inconsistencies in ghandisfury's ARGUMENT.
This, on the other hand, Arcadius, is the longest post (ignoring quotes) that you have made in this thread; you're responses mainly consisting of "I agree with ghandi" and variants on a theme that can succinctly be aggregated as "you're full of shit".
The fact that you have dismissed my post (and possibly all three) as "a load of crap" (your vocabulary seems to be quite limited in that regard) based on a single paragraph at the beginning only validates my point that you are ignoring the fundamental problem.
And this makes me laugh every time I read it:
Learn to read, thx.Learn to read a bit more, thanks. I know it's heavy exercise on your lips, forefinger and furrowed brow as you trace the sentences out, but you'll realise it was worth it when you grow up into a big strong teenager.
Originally posted by DCSparkes
ROFL!
If you're going to correct my spelling at the very least make sure that my spelling isn't valid
I didn't correct your spelling.
Did you read anything I said? C A N Y O U R E A D?
Originally posted by DCSparkes
The fact that you have dismissed my post (and possibly all three) as "a load of crap" (your vocabulary seems to be quite limited in that regard) based on a single paragraph at the beginning only validates my point that you are ignoring the fundamental problem.
I didn't dismiss your entire post, i was only respondign to a small part of it. You can understand that right? Or are you retarded?
Originally posted by DCSparkes
but you'll realise it was worth it when you grow up into a big strong teenager.
omg a youth argument, roflmao. Real mature DC, get the fuck out of here if you're just using this message board to insult people and feel better because of your own petty insecurities. And once again learn to read and understand what people are saying ok?
*puts another fool on the ignore list*
no parashock=ppu god mod
anyone ever noticed how hard it is to kill a ppu w/o a parashock?no antibuff wont help..they will get away from the range of it[i dont remmeber the name but we had a hard time killing DR's leader and he is a ppu monk, there was 2 apus, 2 spies and 4 tanks and we didnt had a ppu to parashock him...oo it IS hard to hit a monk with 140 agl(melee+spy3+pure dex on agl)]
Originally posted by zanzan
no parashock=ppu god mod
anyone ever noticed how hard it is to kill a ppu w/o a parashock?no antibuff wont help..they will get away from the range of it[i dont remmeber the name but we had a hard time killing DR's leader and he is a ppu monk, there was 2 apus, 2 spies and 4 tanks and we didnt had a ppu to parashock him...oo it IS hard to hit a monk with 140 agl(melee+spy3+pure dex on agl)]
Yea you're right, that's the only downside.
ghandisfury
14-08-03, 20:01
Originally posted by zanzan
no parashock=ppu god mod
anyone ever noticed how hard it is to kill a ppu w/o a parashock?no antibuff wont help..they will get away from the range of it[i dont remmeber the name but we had a hard time killing DR's leader and he is a ppu monk, there was 2 apus, 2 spies and 4 tanks and we didnt had a ppu to parashock him...oo it IS hard to hit a monk with 140 agl(melee+spy3+pure dex on agl)]
Nope, not a good reason *pulls out holy catharis sanctum*. If anything we are the ONLY ones immune to parashock.
good side wont be noticed much..in many of thoes pp1 fights there isnt a ppu there for no freezers and spies and pes can run around with there weapons, u dont see much of it in a op fight since theres parashocks but really..they will still die with or without the parashock, TBH i think that op fights are based on 2 classes, monks and tanks, tanks to rape APUs[lets face it, what other class can kill them?] and monks to buff and get a nasty antibuff :) no i dont think that it should be that way but it is
edit::a few more lvls and my ppu can use holy catharis sanctum :DDD[then im going to bat to the death a few spies that pisst me off :lol: ]
another edit::im gonna bat to the death shadow dancer then post a screenshot(once i get home] =) =P
Here is the problem take para out or nerf it how u gonna kill a APU monk?????????????????
uzi would do the trick :)[damage boost 3 times+medicant smg=dead apu :)]
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