View Full Version : Spys my observation
Ok I tested out a spy to see how crapy they are and my final thought is there medicore not nerfed or total shit as most cryers will lead you on to believe.
They have 2 flaws the 1st love is impossible to cap in freq and DMG cap is hard to get in a 120 all FL you need max imps and stats like 190 Lore and 190 Rifle to get high freq and dmg on the FL even though it rapes not capped out.
That is problem one problem 2 is there defense isn't grand they will always right now have some form of elemental weakness.
Thinking it through I think it can be solved by being lowering req's to get decent stats on an FL a titch not much though.
and for defense change the stats on the SF chip from +5 int to +5 str and change the reqs on helm's 1 from 49 to 48 I think this would fix there weakness to dmg and make them better off in combat.
2 simple things thats dont effect many with dealing nerfs to other classes or going crazy and addin some insane armour suit that is 200 resist fir and xry or and thing like that exagerated of course.
Anyway look at my suggestions I couldn't think of any flaws but maybe other will.
PS all the CS is only a small ammount better than an FL if ur FL is dealing shit dmg check what ur cap is at?
ZoneVortex
10-08-03, 04:08
Wellllll it sounds like you played a RIFLE SPY which is the only viable, and is quite viable at that , way to play a spy for PVP.
Droning is good of course and IMO is a great things for spies to do.
Originally posted by hnlecter
We just want out armor.
An what armour do u want? Your armour right now is amazing onyl uber armour in game Tank armour is shit. 117xry with my proposed str change ur wearing xry armour,inq 1 and then with heavy enr belt u got best amount of resist armour in game
I have to say this is the first semi-senisible post I've seen from KimmyG. I really, really mean that as a compliment and not an insult.
If he really has gone to the effort of levelling a spy (or any other char) to near cap just to see the other guy's POV then I have a huge amount of respect for him.
That said - I'd like to hear his opinions on the levelling process and on his experience in PvP and PvM since getting to a high level compared to those he's had on other classes. I do know a few people like myself that play all classes but I'd like to speak to a recent initiate into spy-hood as most people that I know are way too "vet" to be truly un-biased (including myself).
I've done similar experiments the other way round (I'm normally a spy but have played other classes) and I'd like to compare notes. If you have the time Kimmy my ICQ is in my profile.
Back to the general points he raises - the proposed change to the SF is a really good idea (I wish I'd thought of it - it's that good ;)).
I still think that spies should get duranit back but I can see this change plus skill boosting PA (as opposed to armour boosting) as being a huge step towards fixing the problems in the current gross imbalance.
I've always advocated small, subtle changes and I really think KimmyG has found a neat one here. Sure, it hits near-cap spies hard in the belts but if it meant Duranit 1 or 2 were within reach that would be acceptable IMO.
That x-ray armor is crap. People know not to use x-ray against spys and just switch to a fire modded cs or something which will kindly kill us. The +5 dex +10 or 15 rifle/pistol PA is what would really be nice which has been promised for a bit.
curious did your spy have any tradeskill in INT. if so what lvl?
Ok lemme dum it for all ye nay sayers my armour is crap my spy is crap poor me
lets say they do my SF +5int - +5Str a positive for both spy and PE I think. and change helms to 48 instead of 49
This a somewhat rough template I thought up
Imps
Brain - Special Forces,Move ON, Distance Weapon CPU 3,BioTech Mindcontrol CPU 3 (Idealy a Synaptic accel but not a mass ammount for the common player)
Heart - BioTech Experimental-Heart 1
Backbone - BioTech Experimental-Reflexbooster 4
Armor
INQ 1 helm
Spy PA
Heavy Enr Belt
Inq 1 Pants
Inq 1 Boots
SO armor will = Xry 117 Enr 70 Fir 72
Con I would go
ATH 62
HLT 37
END 0
FIR 49
ENR 50
XRY 0
POI 0
SO that would leave u with a final of
ATH 70
HLT 80
END 10
FIR 114
ENR 114
XRY 117
POI 5
PSI
PPU 56
MST 31
PPW 2
SO there capped out resists with fair speed good HP pop a +5 PSI pill and u got shelter and u say ur class is shit.
Originally posted by jernau
I have to say this is the first semi-senisible post I've seen from KimmyG. I really, really mean that as a compliment and not an insult.
If he really has gone to the effort of levelling a spy (or any other char) to near cap just to see the other guy's POV then I have a huge amount of respect for him.
That said - I'd like to hear his opinions on the levelling process and on his experience in PvP and PvM since getting to a high level compared to those he's had on other classes. I do know a few people like myself that play all classes but I'd like to speak to a recent initiate into spy-hood as most people that I know are way too "vet" to be truly un-biased (including myself).
I've done similar experiments the other way round (I'm normally a spy but have played other classes) and I'd like to compare notes. If you have the time Kimmy my ICQ is in my profile.
Back to the general points he raises - the proposed change to the SF is a really good idea (I wish I'd thought of it - it's that good ;)).
I still think that spies should get duranit back but I can see this change plus skill boosting PA (as opposed to armour boosting) as being a huge step towards fixing the problems in the current gross imbalance.
I've always advocated small, subtle changes and I really think KimmyG has found a neat one here. Sure, it hits near-cap spies hard in the belts but if it meant Duranit 1 or 2 were within reach that would be acceptable IMO.
INQ > DURANIT
A *full* Duranit 1 set (which is only head, legs, chest) gives a w00ping 26.6 energy resist. OMG OM GOMGOMGOMGOGMGOMGO!!!!1111oneoneone
A *full* Inq 1 set (which is head, legs, chest, boots) gives a nice 96.8 fire. My question is...why waste base resist points on fire when inq armor gives you SO MUCH of it?
If spies could get the str to wear inq1, they would be set....between inq1, the xray suit and a heavy energy belt they only need a bit in base resists to nearly cap most resists.
Give spies some way to get more str!
Originally posted by KimmyG
Ok lemme dum it for all ye nay sayers my armour is crap my spy is crap poor me
lets say they do my SF +5int - +5Str a positive for both spy and PE I think. and change helms to 48 instead of 49
This a somewhat rough template I thought up
Imps
Brain - Special Forces,Move ON, Distance Weapon CPU 3,BioTech Mindcontrol CPU 3 (Idealy a Synaptic accel but not a mass ammount for the common player)
Heart - BioTech Experimental-Heart 1
Backbone - BioTech Experimental-Reflexbooster 4
Armor
INQ 1 helm
Spy PA
Heavy Enr Belt
Inq 1 Pants
Inq 1 Boots
SO armor will = Xry 117 Enr 70 Fir 72
Con I would go
ATH 62
HLT 37
END 0
FIR 49
ENR 50
XRY 0
POI 0
SO that would leave u with a final of
ATH 70
HLT 80
END 10
FIR 114
ENR 114
XRY 117
POI 5
PSI
PPU 56
MST 31
PPW 2
SO there capped out resists with fair speed good HP pop a +5 PSI pill and u got shelter and u say ur class is shit.
Pwned ;)
Or maybe just add a plain +5str to the SF so PE's dont get hurt
QuantumDelta
10-08-03, 06:25
Or a second implant with +5 DEX and +5 STR? o_O
Just make it Dex Req 100, no PE would bother with it then :p
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Or a second implant with +5 DEX and +5 STR? o_O
Just make it Dex Req 100, no PE would bother with it then :p
Yea maybe anyway plain and simple all the spy needs is an imp that gives +5 or +6 Str
Beanie McChimp
10-08-03, 11:18
personally I never said my class is shit I just never knew we could do that thanks for the con and armor tips:D
Clownst0pper
10-08-03, 12:24
the 1st love is impossible to cap in freq and DMG
Wrong, I cap my first love, and my disruptor. Do not forget that capping DMG/ROF is also linked to your weapons stats if you have 112% dmg for example on your first love, you will need twice the amount of rifle combat/WL to cap it.
Kaolin has 200 weapon lore, upon cap he will have 205.
He also has 172 rifle combat.
I wont give the rest of my stats away or my implants, But a) Im not gimped b) I run as fast as most PE's without gimping my con.
"Spys arent rubbish, Its the players behind them"
Kaolin/Ikari
Clownst0pper
10-08-03, 12:27
Dream, You got access to my account? How u know my setup? :D
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Wrong, I cap my first love, and my disruptor. Do not forget that capping DMG/ROF is also linked to your weapons stats if you have 112% dmg for example on your first love, you will need twice the amount of rifle combat/WL to cap it.
Kaolin has 200 weapon lore, upon cap he will have 205.
He also has 172 rifle combat.
I wont give the rest of my stats away or my implants, But a) Im not gimped b) I run as fast as most PE's without gimping my con.
"Spys arent rubbish, Its the players behind them"
Kaolin/Ikari Not quite.
Any WEP past 176 is wasted (enough to cap aim on a 120% handling Disruptor - highest TL rifle existant). More gives no benefit.
Approx 183 R-C is enough to cap dmg (178% total, from a 120% stat example)
You'll never come close to capping rate of fire though, unless you go completely insane with R-C (approx 220-225, from calculations)
Originally posted by kurai
Not quite.
Any WEP past 176 is wasted (enough to cap aim on a 120% handling Disruptor - highest TL rifle existant). More gives no benefit.
Wasted? Not quite. You still get small damage bonus from WPL to damage.
Always remember this :
Rifle Damage: 0.7(70%) RC + 0.2(20%) WPL
Rifle Aiming: 0.4(40%) RC + 0.6(60%) WPL
Rifle Frequency: 0.5(50%) RC + 0.4(40%) DEX
Rifle Handling: 0.4(40%) RC + 0.3(30%) DEX + 0.2(20%) STR
Rifle Range: 0.3(30%) RC + 0.5(50%) WPL
Originally posted by Argent
Wasted? Not quite. You still get small damage bonus from WPL to damage.
Always remember this :
Rifle Damage: 0.7(70%) RC + 0.2(20%) WPL
Rifle Aiming: 0.4(40%) RC + 0.6(60%) WPL
Rifle Frequency: 0.5(50%) RC + 0.4(40%) DEX
Rifle Handling: 0.4(40%) RC + 0.3(30%) DEX + 0.2(20%) STR
Rifle Range: 0.3(30%) RC + 0.5(50%) WPL Yes - I read that thread too ;)
My point is that if he adds more R-C as he levels he is not far off the point where he caps damage on a Disruptor (even closer to First Love dmg cap)
[As I said - 176 WPL/183 R-C caps aim (267%) & dmg (178%) on the Disruptor.]
At this point more WPL will have no effect on anything.
The only stat possible to increase from here is Rate of Fire, by adding R-C.
Edit: Just calculated max R-C possible, assuming 89 TC, and all the max RC/TC/WPL imps [SA/SF/Distance 2 &3/Rifle Eye 3 + selfcast Rifle 1], and *all* other DEX points in R-C. Still won't cap RoF on FL/Disruptor.
Originally posted by Clownst0pper
Wrong, I cap my first love, and my disruptor. Do not forget that capping DMG/ROF is also linked to your weapons stats if you have 112% dmg for example on your first love, you will need twice the amount of rifle combat/WL to cap it.
Kaolin has 200 weapon lore, upon cap he will have 205.
He also has 172 rifle combat.
I wont give the rest of my stats away or my implants, But a) Im not gimped b) I run as fast as most PE's without gimping my con.
"Spys arent rubbish, Its the players behind them"
Kaolin/Ikari
Yes I was talking more to geting RoF up dmg is possible but I also needed to allot bout 50 into PSI use to get mana to cast shelter.
BUt all and all stats on an FL arnt to bad once u cap dmg all the spy needs to be balanced is +5 str and change to helms or a +6 str a new imp maybe like QD said or adding it to the SF.
Yea where is our assassination suits at? I got my disruptor now I just need my armor!!!
What do u need a new suit for? I wouldn't trade that spy armour for anything. its the best armor in game
Cryotchekk
10-08-03, 19:46
did maximus twilight cap his FL, i know he was *** at one point
What about using rifle boost 1?
Just a coupla questions for ya'll:
Would you rather have:
a) A spy who is only able to fight.
or
b) A spy who is Ok at combat but can do some other convinent things for you such as hack, imp, drive.
And:
Even if you were an all combat spy would you be able to take on well built/played Tanks and PEs?
edited out.. i dont even wanna get in this discussion
Originally posted by Arcadius
This is why Scikar>all
I agree thousand percent. Like I said before, spies should be extremely powerful JUST LIKE PSIS. They should be the polar opposite of psis(like apu to ppu). PSsis are the master of the mind and PSI, spies are the master of the mind and TECHNOLOGY.
They really shouldn't be laughable. Honestly in op wars I see the spies as jokes, sorry but I do. I know nonamebrandeggs is a great PvP spy, but even at an op war I laugh. And i don't mean that as an insult to him. I think spies have alot of potential.
One thing I would like to see is disguise kits for spies much like UO. They would temporarily changed a spy's name(has to be custom made by the spy when using the kit otherwise everyone will memorize the "pre"set spy names), faction, rank, and clothing.
They should get shit like a special radar taht shows EVERYONE IN THE ZONE's name in local. Or see through walls. Or night vision.
etc....
@arc
U read my posts?
Whats laughable at capped resists?
Whats laughable at cloak ability?
Whats laughable about having a weapon that just a tad below a CS?
If they do my change A spy will have less HP and less speed than a tank
Originally posted by KimmyG
@arc
U read my posts?
Whats laughable at capped resists?
I haven't fought any spies with capped resists, if it's possible to do that then great. But more often than not if they have good energy resist their usually raped by fire or poison.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Whats laughable at cloak ability?
In the hands of a pe? Nothing. But a cloaked spy doesn't scare me much since most of the time I acn kill them before they recloak. And in op wars, well spies go down quick IMO.
Originally posted by KimmyG
Whats laughable about having a weapon that just a tad below a CS?
I DON'T KNOW. I think FL and disruptor are great, and they hurt me. But I rarely see any spies use them, most spies I see use pain easer. a FEW use FL. And I have seen ONLY ONE use disruptor.
Perhaps if the TL was lowered to something reasonable.
Originally posted by KimmyG
If they do my change A spy will have less HP and less speed than a tank
y?
OK u didn't read my posts I proposed they add an +5 str imp that spys could use or add +5 to the SF and then change helms to 48str that would open up inq 1 armour and if u follow my con temp u could see how they would have capped resists.
Originally posted by KimmyG
OK u didn't read my posts I proposed they add an +5 str imp that spys could use or add +5 to the SF and then change helms to 48str that would open up inq 1 armour and if u follow my con temp u could see how they would have capped resists.
I think that's a great idea, but I think spies should be powerful in ways other than just combat.
Originally posted by Arcadius
I think that's a great idea, but I think spies should be powerful in ways other than just combat.
Like in what way?
Originally posted by KimmyG
Like in what way?
:p
I just posted it. The post where you said "@arc what is laughable about a spy etc.......", the post before that. :D
@Kimmy - Please explain what you mean by "capped resists". AFAIK there is no such concept in Neocron at the moment. KK have admitted resists and PvP damage are fucked and that they are working on it. If you are basing it on Rustot's info then you should be aware he got that data from the offline demo which is ancient and has very little in common with the current system.
Kimmy's implant idea is good in that it could provide a small increase to spy armour without unbalancing any other class. It doesn't remove the need for PA though or do anything to help the other problems in the class. It's a nice first step on a long journey.
Originally posted by jernau
@Kimmy - Please explain what you mean by "capped resists". AFAIK there is no such concept in Neocron at the moment. KK have admitted resists and PvP damage are fucked and that they are working on it. If you are basing it on Rustot's info then you should be aware he got that data from the offline demo which is ancient and has very little in common with the current system.
115-120 or so is where you get maximum protection I think, or basically the soft cap where you get very very little extra protection if you go past it.
I'm sceptical about that tbh - my tank definitely takes less ENR damage in PA at ~150 than VK at ~120.
It may become a case of diminishing returns but I don't think it's useless.
Originally posted by jernau
I'm sceptical about that tbh - my tank definitely takes less ENR damage in PA at ~150 than VK at ~120.
It may become a case of diminishing returns but I don't think it's useless.
From HL?
I think it's more noticable against single shot weapons.
Originally posted by Arcadius
From HL?
I think it's more noticable against single shot weapons.
I tested with both HL and Lasers.
"I think it's more noticable against single shot weapons." - in what way?
Originally posted by jernau
in what way?
Because it's only one type of damage. I should say "single damage" weapons instead.
Originally posted by Arcadius
Because it's only one type of damage. I should say "single damage" weapons instead.
Ah, yeah - ENR only.
No point otherwise.
Originally posted by Arcadius
115-120 or so is where you get maximum protection I think, or basically the soft cap where you get very very little extra protection if you go past it.
WRONG!
The resists in CONSTITUTION cap at 114, but you'll need anywhere from 175-200 TOTAL ARMOR in a certain armor type to "cap" your armor.
Resists are used in the ARMOR equation, not the other way around!
Originally posted by Rob01m
WRONG!
The resists in CONSTITUTION cap at 114, but you'll need anywhere from 175-200 TOTAL ARMOR in a certain armor type to "cap" your armor.
Resists are used in the ARMOR equation, not the other way around!
I seriously doubt you're right.
Lets use the term "Armor Value" shall we?
Okay, now to cap your damage resisted in FIRE, you need 175-200 Armor value. The armor you wear has numbers, as in "+37 FIRE" That number is Armor value, it's used directly in the equation.
Resists in CONSTITUTION work a bit differently. Up until 100 in a resist (this is total, including implants etc) each resist = about 0.9 armor value. 98 fire resist = about (98x0.9) 88.2 fire armor.
Therefore if you had 37 fire armor, and 98 fire resist you'd get 37+88.2 = 125.2 Fire Armor Value, that's about a 71% absorbtion rate of damage.
You convert the resists in CON and add them to the armor you're wearing, that number is generally best around 100 - 150, but it caps at 175-200.
You do NOT add armor to resists, that's backwards...
Voodoochicken
10-08-03, 22:43
Look.. I stayed out of this before.. the this resists thing is really bugging me.
As I understand it...
CON resists cap at 114. .that's CON resists ON THEIR OWN..
ie having more than 114 in a CON resist isn't helping you at all.
However, by adding armour on top of that you can get better resists (but not by much).. and resist can be further increased by shelters. .etc. (or vice versa)
ie.. to "cap" a resist-you need armour + con resist. .and this "caps" at 200..
114 in a CON resist is about 119 points of that 200 (note: CON resists aren't totally linear == ahah Rob ;)).
Each armour resist point counts as 1.
So.. obviously, having a combined armour factor (or whatever) of 114 in a resist is pretty good, but it is NOT capped.
Shelters/deflectors have more of an impact if you don't already have good resists...
***
Something else that is bugging me is that some thought was allegedly put into the implant setup. (Mindctrl CPU3? Experimental reflex booster??
or is an extra +1 DEX, +8 end, -5 weapon lore, + 1 INT, +15 RCL better than using the non-MC5 alternatives.. well it's your choice :confused:
+ "drug" to STR 50 for +30 END... *
*hey.. why should I tell cretins what to use? :)
I might not be right.. but I can't exactly be as inaccurate/sloppy as some of the other posts here... Jeeezus... :rolleyes:
[edit] yeah.. what Rob said .. . + @Arcadius.. why don't you try actually reading relevant posts on the forums and save us from some of your inaccurate crud/conjecture. Have a nice day. [/end edit]
Originally posted by Voodoochicken
Look.. I stayed out of this before.. the this resists thing is really bugging me.
As I understand it...
CON resists cap at 114. .that's CON resists ON THEIR OWN..
ie having more than 114 in a CON resist isn't helping you at all.
However, by adding armour on top of that you can get better resists (but not by much).. and resist can be further increased by shelters. .etc. (or vice versa)
ie.. to "cap" a resist-you need armour + con resist. .and this "caps" at 200..
114 in a CON resist is about 119 points of that 200 (note: CON resists aren't linear).
Each armour resist point counts as 1.
So.. obviously, having a combined armour factor (or whatever) of 114 in a resist is pretty good, but it is NOT capped.
***
Something else that is bugging me is that some thought was allegedly put into the implant setup. (Mindctrl CPU3? Experimental reflex booster??
or is an extra +1 DEX, +8 end, -5 weapon lore, + 1 INT, +15 RCL better than using the non-MC5 alternatives.. well it's your choice :confused:
+ "drug" to STR 50 for +30 END... *
*hey.. why should I tell cretins what to use? :)
I might not be right.. but I can't exactly be as inaccurate/sloppy as some of the other posts here... Jeeezus... :rolleyes:
Most of what you said is correct, however, the resists are linear up to resist 100, then they go off. Until 100 in a resist the rule is 1 resist point = 0.9 armor point. After 100 it's not linear and resists become worth more then armor UNTIL 114 resist which = 119 armor.
This theory is from here right? : http://neocron.ems.ru/resist.html
See my comment above then - it's very very outdated and almost certainly wrong.
QuantumDelta
10-08-03, 23:00
The theory on the site works however the explanations of how everything relates is bad, most people either can't explain, or don't know how resists work at all.
I am in the former, I know how they work I just have real trouble putting it into words...
What I can say about rustot's site:
The numbers are not wrong.
The theory is not really wrong either, it's a very good starting place for people who are beginning to understand resists.
However, the site, is not complete.
Voodoochicken
10-08-03, 23:05
I believe it's from various threads about resists/ caps/ armour.
Lupus (I think it was) confirmed that CON resists have no further effect after 114.
I believe they also said you can not cap a resist by only wearing armour (and you can't by only having 114 in a CON resist).
ie.. you need some of both.. even if it's, eg, (and I pull this out of my arse) 14 in a CON resist to add to 240 from armour (and 240 is, of course, overkill).
Shelters/deflectors can improve resists "above the cap", because they affect dmg after resists.
Choose not to believe us if you want.. I can't tell you what to believe.
and I notice several people with much more knowledge about resists than me haven't commented yet.. and I don't blame them.
[oh.. thank you QD.. maybe some peeps will shut up now]
so.. meh..
What i ment by capped resists is all ur resists would be 114 plain and simple if you go higher you take less dmg but with a difference of maybe 5 less dmg not worth it. 114 is the cap I have done extensive testing since day one of this game anything other than that, that allows you to take less dmg is a bug or cheat.
So far after hours and hours of testing I found the guide on ems is the best way to go.
Match my con setup put in pure STR imps and test out my setup if ur not taking the least dmg u have ever taken please say so.
QuantumDelta
10-08-03, 23:18
Natural CON will allow you to resist 72% of total damage to one type (EG: Energy 114 = 72%)
After CON 114, Armor can only raise that, to 76%.
After 76%, nothing can boost your resist to a damage type, except shelter/deflector(s)/PSI Shield.
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Natural CON will allow you to resist 72% of total damage to one type (EG: Energy 114 = 72%)
After CON 114, Armor can only raise that, to 76%
Anf that setup alows u to resist all forms of attack by 72% id rather have that then 76% enr and 30% fir
QuantumDelta
10-08-03, 23:27
Untrue. I think I have about 76-70% on all my resists.
Except poison which I don't need THAT high...
Voodoochicken
10-08-03, 23:32
114 armour value in each resist is by no means bad, but it also isn't capped.
Pulling the numbers off Rustot's site... 114 overall armour value would be ~68% or 69% resist.. ? That's out of the possible 76%
The fact that bone enforcements were left out of the setup doesn't help (eg.. leg and chest bones add ATH and END).
..anyways...
/me runs for life befroe the thread swallows me up with trivialities and minor misunderstandings.
EVERYONE RUN!!!
[edit].. well yes.. I don't know how much damage 114 overall resist would block in this case.. I used rustot's site for some rough numbers as opposed to just completely guessing.[/end edit]
QuantumDelta
10-08-03, 23:34
Originally posted by Voodoochicken
114 armour value in each resist is by no means bad, but it also isn't capped.
Pulling the numbers off Rustot's site... 114 overall armour value would be ~68% or 69% resist.. ? That's out of the possible 76%
The fact that bone enforcements were left out of the setup doesn't help (eg.. leg and chest bones add ATH and END).
..anyways...
/me runs for life befroe the thread swallows me up with trivialities and minor misunderstandings.
EVERYONE RUN!!!
Hense why I have said that the website is fairly unreliable when it comes to the top of the range explanations....
It's almost useless when trying to calculate resistances above 60% if they come from a combined total of Armor and CON.
Originally posted by Voodoochicken
114 armour value in each resist is by no means bad, but it also isn't capped.
Pulling the numbers off Rustot's site... 114 overall armour value would be ~68% or 69% resist.. ? That's out of the possible 76%
The fact that bone enforcements were left out of the setup doesn't help (eg.. leg and chest bones add ATH and END).
..anyways...
/me runs for life befroe the thread swallows me up with trivialities and minor misunderstandings.
EVERYONE RUN!!!
I said it was ruff I coughed it out in maybe 10mins
Bones? You get one guess at what they are!
This was more of a demo of what it is possible to do with a spy and if I do say so myself that temp is good but far from perfect but use it as a ruff draft im sure you can tweak it to be better or to suit it to ur personal prefence
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