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View Full Version : interesting article about the lvling treadmil within mmog



hinch
07-08-03, 18:12
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/432/432071p1.html

nice quote from bit of it


Too many designers listen to players loudly complaining at their death or loss and end up removing the challenge, and thus fun, in the game as a result.

Helen Angilley
07-08-03, 18:13
Still doesn't explain EverQuest.

Worst "treadmill" out of any MMORPG, is apparently "carebear" (Although, having said that, any game that isn't Counterstrike seems to be "carebear" if you listen to these forums) and yet it has trillions of subscribers.

hinch
07-08-03, 18:15
my only explanation for eq is


its been around for fucking ever

infact i believe it was the first graphical mmorpg (note graphical as MUD`s were out before)

Hidden Godoffej
07-08-03, 18:18
UO was out slightly before EQ... but EQ *was* the first first-person MMORPG (at least as far as I'm aware o_O)

Monthar
07-08-03, 19:10
Actually Meridian 59 was the first graphical 1st person view 3D MMORPG and it was out well before UO and EQ came along.

Hayato
07-08-03, 19:20
meh EQ sucked ass anyways

Beefheart
07-08-03, 19:54
Helens gone to the darkside, she used the C word (carebear ;) )

Lucjan
07-08-03, 20:32
Originally posted by Monthar
Actually Meridian 59 was the first graphical 1st person view 3D MMORPG and it was out well before UO and EQ came along.

While true, Meridian was a small project with no real marketing funds at stuff and with no big company behind.

Ultima Online was the first huge MMORPG project on a highly commercial level.

EverQuest was the first FPP one around the time where FPP games was considered to be state of the art by many people.

Being good and being known are two different things, please let us not forget that ;-)

jumbo
07-08-03, 22:35
I think it should be possible to make an MMOG with no leveling at all. I am not saying there shouldn't be goals or things that may be time consuming. But when you realise that leveling is designed to make us play and pay longer and that the dullness is the main challeng. It really does start to look like just cheap alternative to content and we are all cattle for putting up with it.

Err I wasn't intending to rant, but I think I just seen the light!

Jumbo

Dade Murphey
08-08-03, 01:10
Originally posted by jumbo
I think it should be possible to make an MMOG with no leveling at all. I am not saying there shouldn't be goals or things that may be time consuming. But when you realise that leveling is designed to make us play and pay longer and that the dullness is the main challeng. It really does start to look like just cheap alternative to content and we are all cattle for putting up with it.

Err I wasn't intending to rant, but I think I just seen the light!

Jumbo

So instead of lvls maybe just purely skill based...like...you go fishing...you learn to fish...you do it a bunch...you become the greatest fisherman to ever live!!...haha...this is the sort of set up I would actually like...and enjoy...because people could truely do anything/be anything they wanted because you wouldn't have the crap restrictions of lvls...you could truely have a JoaT's if you so desired...it would take a long long time, naturally...but I think it would be alot more fun than the normal lvl based stuff

Lucjan
08-08-03, 01:54
Originally posted by Dade Murphey
So instead of lvls maybe just purely skill based...like...you go fishing...you learn to fish...you do it a bunch...you become the greatest fisherman to ever live!!...haha...this is the sort of set up I would actually like...and enjoy...because people could truely do anything/be anything they wanted because you wouldn't have the crap restrictions of lvls...you could truely have a JoaT's if you so desired...it would take a long long time, naturally...but I think it would be alot more fun than the normal lvl based stuff

You need Ultima Online. They use a "real" skill system like you've described it.

FBI
08-08-03, 02:56
not that i like eq, but ive watched the EQ2 trailer at 3dgamers.com and i must say my jaw dropped at the new engine they created.

KRIMINAL99
08-08-03, 03:12
This is exactly what I have been saying for ever... The biggest example of difficulty/challenge nerf in this game that turned it into a leveling treadmill was the PVP drop nerf and PKER nerfs.

They listened to what players were saying at a time when the players weren't thinking objectively and rationally, and did not have the perspective to make accurate observations. Anotherwords the players were asking for something that at that point they could not see would make the game much less enjoyable, and they were given what they asked for.

It makes sense that this is a common trend that developers would follow because players are most insistant in their demands when they are not thinking rationally, and the developers are more likely to do what they want when they are most insistant. So therefore: AVG Develpors are more likely to follow irrational unobjective demands of players, thus ruining their games.

jumbo
08-08-03, 10:58
I played UO and I did like that skill system however thats not what I meant. I was thinking of a system where you chose the kind of character you want to play at the begining and then thats what you play with for the whole game. It would be a bit like starting neocron witha maxed character, not that I am saying thats how I want neocron to be. I think of it more as a game where discovery and adventure are the primary goals rather than the ultimate PvP setup.

Jumbo

evs
08-08-03, 11:47
i like the levelling treadmill :/

its fun killing mobs :)

Xian
08-08-03, 11:52
Originally posted by FBI
not that i like eq, but ive watched the EQ2 trailer at 3dgamers.com and i must say my jaw dropped at the new engine they created.

Yeah I saw that too... looked bloody brilliant (still not buying it though :p).



Too many designers listen to players loudly complaining at their death or loss and end up removing the challenge, and thus fun, in the game as a result.

Depends whats called a challenge though, eh? If a 'challenge' is losing every last item you have when you die or the most important one on you I don't agree. I personally think thats just another added part to keep people playing.

hinch
08-08-03, 12:26
also just found this about making money from selling items in games etc


http://games.slashdot.org/games/03/08/07/1938238.shtml?tid=127&tid=186&tid=209

Clothing_Option
09-08-03, 01:19
I think one idea in the article that would be cool in NC would
be group epics where u needed a certian amount of diffrent class players who all get a reward from thier faction along with the usual SP epics

Delloda
09-08-03, 07:56
there is a mmorpg in hong kong where you have to go up a mountain and train your character fighting moves with a master for 1 real time year before you can actually start challenging ppl to a fight. O_o

QuantumDelta
09-08-03, 08:05
cough dbz....