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View Full Version : Stock-X is broken. Do *not* use it.



kurai
07-08-03, 09:39
Since no-one in an official position seems to feel like telling anyone about this, I guess it's down to me.

Pre-patch 186/187 I had approx 30 million in Stock-X (2000 units of each faction)

Post patch I have ... zero. Nada. Nothing.

Official response :- "We can't track it. Have 100k"

I know this is not an isolated problem - several other people (out of only approx 20 I asked) have had the same problem.

Ignoring the issue isn't going to make it go away. If the damn system isn't working, then disable it till it does.

It's not rocket science.

Bah. Had to edit myself about a dozen times already for too much swearing/flaming/ranting. Details to follow when I am less pissed off with the shitty handling of the siituation

Original monk
07-08-03, 09:47
Daamn thats a big RIP-OFF for you man, and i really really hope its gonna get ok with youre credits, altough i doubt it if its bug-wise, very good of you to post it on the forum so the whole community knows about this, good luck

Delloda
07-08-03, 09:54
yes i lost six million in stocks and kk haven't even bothered to reply to my help request. those bastids. :(

\\Fényx//
07-08-03, 10:03
most of pluto know that you were like bill bloody gates on there with a total of about 50 mil...

Arcadius
07-08-03, 10:04
Damn KK, letting one of your players lose 30 million just like that and doing nothing about it.



Lame.

Psycho_Soldier
07-08-03, 10:07
Originally posted by Arcadius
Damn KK, letting one of your players lose 30 million just like that and doing nothing about it.



Lame.


Come on now... you can't really say you are surprised now can you? :rolleyes:

Crest
07-08-03, 10:14
Me thinks the Neo-Stock market has crashed and you invested at the wrong time. Buy property, cant ever go wrong with property.

Take Max a Milion he bought property and now he can sleep at night

ZoneVortex
07-08-03, 11:12
Originally posted by Crest
Me thinks the Neo-Stock market has crashed and you invested at the wrong time. Buy property, cant ever go wrong with property.

Tike Max a Milion he bought property and now he can sleep at night

lol, tee hee....

enablerbr
07-08-03, 11:21
just curious but as stock-x is suppost to be linked with OP ownership. maybe thats why you've lost cash. just a thought.

Crest
07-08-03, 11:44
Can anyone confirm this, That Stock-X is linked to ownership of OPS.

What else would affect Stock-X Prices....

Some how I thought is was just randomly generated.....

Hey what an easy way to make money

Buy Tons of TT Shares, Inspire the clans to take 10 ops, resulting in massive move in prices. Sell off and buy the TG shares again, cuase we know TG are going to come back and take em back (Or at least try)....

Wash, rinse and repeat.

But cause its all speculation its a good way of generating the cash

kurai
07-08-03, 11:59
This is not a price fluctuation issue, or anything to do with OP ownership

The *value* of the stocks is not the issue.

All the stocks are simply *not there*. Erased. Gone.

Hence using the word "nothing".

Calculating the value of the full depot (2000 units of each faction - the max available) using observed minima & maxima of values puts that at somewhere between 29.5 & 31.5 million nc.

Ryuben
07-08-03, 12:48
ouch......and u won't see that money again :( ul geeza

Jolt
07-08-03, 13:30
Originally posted by Crest
Buy property, cant ever go wrong with property.

/me coughs ...no...

•Super|\|ova•
07-08-03, 13:33
It's just stupid that the GMs say they will not help you because you can't prove your statement true. God damn it, we are paying this game and not gaining any help on the situation when we lose something valuable like 5 slot CS etc. I think the least KK could do is to show some respect for the players too. And hey, is it our fault we can't prove our statement true if we lose some valuable weapon? If you won't replace the lost items (that got lost because buggy game) then make the game so that we can really prove us right! Now we can just only show GMs our log and they tell you "that isn't enough. You could've wirte that on your own or just lie about it." I'm really sick and tired of that us - the customers- lose something because of the bugs we don't want to pay for and then we have no even chance to prove us right god damn it hell jesus oh lord oh my oh boy...

(repeating yourself is the way to handle things while pissed off to the bone) ;)

Lord Mansion
07-08-03, 16:20
Please DON'T advise him to contact Odin.
It won't help.

Legoias
07-08-03, 16:21
Losing 30 mill that blows big time and doesn't inspire confidence when you all you can do is put money in stock (because of the money cap).

@ super nova, can you imagine if KK started to dish out items? Dont get me wrong I lost in the region of 10 million but KK giving things out would cause so much problems. No one would loose a 1 slotted perfect CS again, nope it would always be an x slotted artifact CS.

The biggest problem for KK is people are greedy and they lie, they want to screw the system and get more back was ever lost.

There is away to get more than the 100k defualt amount and thats to give as much information as possible about what happened, provide evidence and talk it through with helpdesk. Swearing and threating to cancel the account wont help one bit.

Lord Mansion
07-08-03, 16:25
Legoias,

How about KK starts working on a new tracking system that keeps a log of items that belong to a player?

There is just NO real way to "prove" that you in fact lost an item with the current setup.

hudsonbeck
07-08-03, 16:31
IMHO
I think bugs should be fixed by kk.
I think everything else should be delt with by the community.

If ther is no way for kk to track it....they cant replace stuff like that. Everybody and their brother will be claming they lost stuff. However, you seem to be well respected and well known to have that kinda money.

As a member of teh NC community, I wuld be willing to donate 1mil to get what you lost back.... now we just need 29 other people:D

btw.... I am sorry, i did not look. I only have this type of cash on Saturn. If its Pluto... I can give less but will give what i can:)


email me in game and i will meet you for the funds transfer,

H

[edit] thanks for the warning :) about StockX

Original monk
07-08-03, 16:58
the day KK starts with giving back stuff people lost they can come over to give me all the multislotters i lost in this year (in beta it was hell with the appartmentwipe but it was in the agreement they could wipe, or it could be bugged, so we knew. In retail it wasnt supposed to happen but still ...) also al the money i lost due to bugs would be neat to get back, so that about 30 mill and a 20 multislotters (ranging from 3 to 5 slots) they still ow me. But now back to reallife: i havent seen 1 cr, not even a 0 slotted poor stilleto from KK so i wont hope on getting anything back. Neocron is a virtual buggy world so learn to live with it, or quit when ya loose 30 mill, yust like i tought about many times, but the addiction is to big hé :angel:

ReefSmoker
07-08-03, 17:07
I lost 2000 FA shares and 1000 TG shares and good ol' Stephan Bast is being a jerk as usual and telling me there's nothing he can do - BOLLOX !

Man surely kk have noticed there's a problem now and can follow this up, fix the problem, and fully compensate everyone who was stung after their screw-up with patches 185/186.

Stephan, hope you read this, you really need to learn the art of customer care. Reakktor - listen up, if you get a problem, don't just turn ppl away saying there's nothing you can do about it, instead investigate, resolve, compensate. Those are the 3 golden rules of customer care that have failed to sink into the minds of employees at Reakktor.

Yeah, basically Stock-X is shafted, or rather, it shafted me.

Take care,

ReefSmoker

hudsonbeck
07-08-03, 17:11
^^ Reef.... Hows the smoking going. You didnt seem to rip them apart too much so it must be going well:D

H

tw@
07-08-03, 18:17
Jesus christ im glad i took 120 mill out a couple of days before the patch and put it into the clan fund... or man... i would have been absoloutely fuming.

kurai
08-08-03, 00:03
Fuck it - here's the entire chain of communications for you to enjoy. Make of it what you will ...

Initially posted ingame support ticket - response was "contact helpdesk" - pretty much what I expected ...


Date: 25 July 2003 20:02
To: helpdesk@neocron.com
Subject: Support request: StockX Depot wiped.

Account Name: xxxxxxxxxx
Character Name: kurai
Server Name: Pluto

My StockX depot has been completely wiped. No stocks, in any faction.
I had 2000 units of every stock (maxxed out, basically).
This equates to between 29 & 31 million depending on price fluctuations.

I am trying *very* hard to be calm here - please contact me ASAP to resolve.

Regards,
--
kurai
Got an automated Ticket number reply. Again - as expected.
Nothing happens for 6 days.


Date: 31 July 2003 12:09
To: Neocron Support Team
Subject: Re: [Ticket#: 2003072511000709]

Hiya.

Been 6 days now - still heard absolutely nothing.

In case your tracking system isn't very good, the details are added below
again.

This is not some minor niggle, and has affected other players StockX depots
post patch as well.

Please treat it with the urgency appropriate to the scale of the problem.

--
kurai

[Pasted original helpdesk mail here]

Remembered the "supportwatch" address, supposedly for chasing tardy helpdesk response.


Date: 31 July 2003 12:19
To: supportwatch@neocron.com
Subject: Fw: [Ticket#: 2003072511000709]

Forwarded to supportwatch@neocron.com, as per info at
http://www.neocron.com/index.php?name=NeoContent&op=modload&file=index&pageID=31

"If you do not get an answer from our support-team within 24 hours, feel
free to also dispatch an email to supportwatch@neocron.com"

It's been 136 hours now ;-/

--
kurai

[Pasted both original and chase mail here]

2003-08-01 09:48 - starting to get ticked off now ...
Created thread Are all support people away on holiday ? (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70385)

Yay ! \o/ Finally a response !

2003-08-01 10:47 Nidhogg saw the thread and offered to chase someone for me.
(note Nidhogg is *not* a support guy - this should *not* have been anything he had to get involved in, wasting his time).

Now we are onto forum PM communcations ...


Date: 2003-08-01 11:11
From: Nidhogg
Subject: Re: Support ticket chasing

ok. I've no idea what happened so I don't know whether you're going to like this news or not. You're to be given a 100K nc in compensation and we're just waiting on Odin to get back to hand it to you. If you want to take the matter further please PM Odin and discuss it with him.

I hope that's an acceptable conclusion for you.

N

Thanked Nidhogg for his help, and said I'd contact Odin, as I fully realised this shouldn't be Nid's problem.

Continued onto another post - I'll probably hit max post length soon

kurai
08-08-03, 00:18
Date: 2003-08-01 11:20
To: Odin
Subject: Re: Support ticket chasing

Hi Odin.

As per Nidhoggs suggestion (I fully realise this is not his area of responsibility) I am PM'ing you, in the hope of a rational support response.

I am sure you realise that offering 100k is not an acceptable solution to the loss of 30 million nc due to no fault of my own, but gameserver patching mechanics.

I hope that you (or someone who is responsible for policy ?) will look at the details of the case and consider your response.

Cheers,
--
kurai


Date: 2003-08-01 14:24
From: Odin
Subject: Re: Support ticket chasing

Unfortunately there is no way to track this and everytime an issue pops up we have a large group of users who attempt to abuse the situation. Hence why the policies are strict until we can get some suitable logging going on.

OK - silly me. This is the point where apparently I was supposed to shut the fuck up and accept I'd been shafted.
Like a fool I tried to take it further, having a hard time believing that this minimal response would count as customer service.


Date: 2003-08-01 17:44
To: Odin
Subject: Re: Support ticket chasing

The abuse potential is the reason I have kept the issue quiet, and not plastered it across the forums.
Just by keeping my eyes open I have seen several people, ingame and on the forums, mentions the same issue, but they were only hit by small losses, so have not persued it, as far as I am aware - just accepting it as a day to day bug, not worth the effort of tracking down.

Unfortunately the scale of my loss is so huge, I am not willing to be so passive about it.

Are you seriously telling me the database doesn't keep track of financial transactions, or trends of players credit ownership ?
How on earth do you expect to manage the games' economy otherwise - one of the biggest central balancing headaches of any MMORPG.

With quoting I was running up against PM max message length, so continued in another message


Date: 2003-08-01 17:46
To: Odin
Subject: Re: Support ticket chasing

Message Part 2
If you want some secondary proof, I can offer you a screenshot - unfortunately taken as far back as 28th June - it was a shot of my One Man Clan details to make a jokey comparison with another much bigger clan and shows the clan bank to be 43,000,000.
Original forum post http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.p...5071#post765071. The thumbnail has been shunted off to http://thumbs.fotopic.net/00025000/25844/clanwar1.jpg, but clicking on the X image placeholder in the post still takes you to the original image, http://neocron.hrmmm.net/photo.php?o=1&id=696967.

I think I have remained admirably calm and rational so far, considering the circumstances and the total lack of helpdesk response so far. If you wish to talk in realtime for more convenience then I am happy to meet you in-game or on IRC at specified time to discuss further.

Regards,
--
kurai

At this point I went back through my archives of console.log, as it was becoming apparent no-one at KK was even going to *try* and investigate the issue.


Date: 2003-08-01 18:45
To: Odin
Subject: Re: Support ticket chasing

Aha !

In further relation to proof, I have found the exact date and time of the stock purchases from my console.log archives.

I bought the stock when I was in the process of disbanding One Man Clan [PP] to join Total Annihilation [TG].

First transaction at 07-07-2003 00:14:37 [GMT+1]), further transactions continuing for the next hour or so.

[Example paste]
07-07-2003 00:14:37 > You paid 4966709 nc!
...
07-07-2003 00:28:00 > You paid 1658249 nc!
[End Paste]

Now I wait another week ...

kurai
08-08-03, 00:31
Not having realised Odin's terse one-liner was the sum of all helpdesk response I forwarded the PM's to him again, in case they had been lost/forgotten/ignored ...

Added a reply to the Are all support people away on holiday ? (http://http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70385) thread, since this was the only way I'd gotten any sort of response at all before.


Originally posted by kurai
Dear support people, or people who can contact support people, or people who can hire support people, or people who can answer an e-mail and pretend to be a support person, or people who clean the KK offices and could give a better impression of being a support person ...

Well - guess what.... It's now 2.5 weeks since the problem cropped up and I contacted ingame support
2 weeks since I mailed helpdesk
1 week since I mailed supportwatch
6 days since I PM'ed Odin
...and nothing has happened. At all.

Well done guys. Impressed. Very impressed.

:rolleyes: <--- that is a "sarcastic" smiley, just in case you are at all confused.

Ticket number is # 2003072511000709, in case rats have eaten your inboxes or aliens from the planet Zogg have erased your memories with their fiendish "Ignore him, and he'll go away Ray".

I have been very patient so far, considering nature & scale of the problem. Can you tell that the patience is running out ? :mad:

I then got a response from Odin via PM


Date: 2003-08-07 08:17
From: Odin
Subject: Re: Support ticket chasing

Ok you've stated you aren't willing to take 100k already so why would anyone respond back? There is no exception to the rule. If we can't track it then that is the payout because we have had too much abuse from players taking advantage of bugs we can't track.

Odin then replied to the Forum thred, and closed it with ...

Originally posted by Odin
Kurai your original ticket was answered. You didn't like the response and that was the end of it. There is no 'negotiating' those terms

Nexos
08-08-03, 00:35
heyho, lost about 5 mio credits in stocks some patches ago.

symptoms as described by the threadstarter, some stocks are just gone ... seems they do nothing about it :(

nEo-1664
08-08-03, 00:40
kurai, i know this prolly aint gonna help ya, but i know you had the money, and admitantly, i had lost a small amount of stock over the last patch update, small as in only about 500 units in some cheap-o faction lol, only amounted to about:250k, and @ the immediate time, i wasnt really bothered. but hey, hope you can get more than a poxxy 100k but if KK's policy has these strict rules, then tbh, they really should have at least some form of tracking for both financial and items.

i suppose these log's are just a belated update, kinda like DOY...


[EDIT] lol @ ur last post kurai, looks like sod all is gonna happen now. if i had the money, i would try and help knowing your an honest guy.

what were people saying....NERF MONKS....sounds more like helpdesk/support watch and ingame all got nerfed instead :/

cyas in game kurai, if your still gonna play.. nEo-1664

[TgR]KILLER
08-08-03, 00:44
We cant track it ? everybody knows kur is ( well was i supose now ) 1 of the richest guys on pluto.. he had more money than everybody.. this is just screwing customors i suppose..

kurai
08-08-03, 00:49
At the same time as I PM'ed Odin with the reminders I also sent e-mail reminders to helpdesk ...


Date: 07 August 2003 07:03
To: supportwatch@neocron.com support@neocron.com tickets@neocron.com odin@neocron.com
Subject: Re: [Ticket#: 2003072511000709]

It's now 2.5 weeks since patch wiped my stocks and I raised ingame ticket, 2
weeks since I mailed helpdesk, 1 week since I mailed supportwatch then PM'ed
Nidhogg, then Odin for a response...

And still nothing has happened,

Not impressed people.

I have been very patient, and the issue is not a small one.
Ignoring it is not a smart way to behave.

Got my *first* response to an e-mail roughly in parallel to Odins final PM...


Date: 07 August 2003 08:00
From: Neocron Support Team <helpdesk@neocron.com>
Subject: Re: [Ticket#: 2003072511000709]

Hi kurai,

I don't know what you expect but we cannot track such losses and the maximum amount anyone can claim due to abuse of support is 100k

With kind regards,
Warren Ferguson
--
Neocron Support Team

*"Abuse of support" ...*

What ... the ... FUCK ?

OK - *now* I am really pissed.


Date: 07 August 2003 08:43
To: helpdesk@neocron.com
Subject: Re: [Ticket#: 2003072511000709]

Well - announcing that Stock-X is broken, and warning players not to use it
would be a start.

This is *not* an isolated incident. There have been 2 other forum posts
about the issue, and of the very small pool of people I have guardedly asked
about the issue ingame, 3 have had the same problem.

The daily 5am backups from before and after patch would clearly show the
difference.
The data values *have* to be stored in the database somewhere, or they would
reset every time the servers were rebooted.
It surely cannot be beyond the competence of your code/DB team to
investigate.

--
kurai


Date: 07 August 2003 08:48
From: helpdesk@neocron.com
Subject: Re: [Ticket#: 2003072511000709]

Hi kurai,

It was reported and happened WITH the patch. You wanna know what happened? I was on in another case while a clan plotted it. They told their members to SELL all their stocks and claim it was wiped with patch 185/186. This is why we don't take people at "their" word, because we are lied to on a constant basis. So simply looking back at an older database does not work. So if we cannot completely track an incident then the cap is 100k. This is well known through out the community and even by yourself. You immediately stated that 100k was unacceptable so please tell me how we could be "ignoring" your request when your already telling us you won't accept anything less then what can't be done.

With kind regards,
Warren Ferguson
--
Neocron Support Team


Date: 07 August 2003 09:10
From: helpdesk@neocron.com
Subject: Re: [Ticket#: 2003072511000709]

OK. Let's assume for now that I am lying cheating scum, and set aside my
personal case for the sake of objectivity.

Look at the value for all stock-x value pre and post patch.

Then tell me *everyone* affected sold all their stock in the time between
backups.
Can you see how absurd that theory is ?

Accept that you have a problem.

--
kurai

And that's where the story ends for now.

I have been cold, rational and polite (with some pointed sarcasm at times, admittedly) throughout this debacle and KK staffers have the *nerve* to get snippy with *me* ?

There are some seriously fucked up attitudes here.

ReefSmoker
08-08-03, 01:01
I sympathise with you Kurai, I do, but the truth is that it seems nothing can be done. Right back when I reported my loss after the patch I had to deal with a helpdesk dude who was unwilling to even report the problem directly to the developers. I pointed out at that time how a comparison of backups from pre-patch (on the grounds that kk actually do take a backup directly before an upgrade) and post-patch would show the obvious difference.

If the data was checked then it wouldn't be a problem, the facts would be obvious. The theory that an unscrupulous individual could sell all their shares pre-patch and then claim the patch did it wouldn't hold water due to the fact that a backup *should* be made when the servers are taken offline to upgrade to a new version.

My main gripe I guess, is that there's a bug here, if it's not investigated then it could happen again. Ideally the problem should be addressed, it would reduce a load on helpdesk and it would prevent future disgruntled customers.

Take care,

ReefSmoker

Nidhogg
08-08-03, 01:03
kurai, I sympathise with your situation, but there's very little to be gained by reviewing the entire support call on the forums. Some points to bear in mind: KK are investigating a tracking system which should help alleviate issues such as this
The current compensation policy comes from the very top so you may wish to send a PM to MJS if you wish to take the matter further. Odin and support in general aren't just being stubborn or bloody-minded, their hands are tied.
"the maximum amount anyone can claim due to abuse of support is 100k" - this means, due to previous abuse of support the maximum compensation payable is 100k. It does not mean that you were attempting to abuse support.
Unfortunately there is nothing further that support can do for you so please contact MJS for further assistance.

N